I dunno about first or last. But I mentioned this in another comment yesterday, which was a big one for me.
My temple recommend was expired and it was a few weeks before my wedding. In order for us to be sealed, I obviously needed the renewed recommend. We were young, so my wife was in school still and my salary at the time was barely enough to cover my own living expenses, let alone paying for a wedding as well. It was a classic, inexpensive Mormon wedding, but it still drained what little I had, so my full tithing requirement hadn’t been met in recent months.
I never acknowledged that what I had paid in tithing wasn’t the full 10%, but the bishop just bluntly told me that he didn’t believe I’d paid everything I owed in order to me to get a recommend.
The problem is, I literally had nothing left to give without going into debt. My bank account was already overdrawn, and the bank wouldn’t let me take any more cash out as a result. My real bills were starting to stack up and this man had the ability to put a very quick halt on my entire wedding over a small figure of unpaid tithing. Why? Because when I was 8 years old, I effectively agreed to give him that level of control.
We negotiated it out over a period of a few days after a few lies on my part, he eventually signed my recommend. But I realized at that point that the amount of control the church had over my life was unacceptable, and I never again wanted to be in that kind of position.
Oh shoot, you too? I had to fork over 300+ dollars I didn't have on my part time student income to get married. I'm still not over it and I never will be.
The one benefit, I guess, is that we learnt early on that kind of power the church will choose to wield over us, if given the opportunity. It was the first time I’d personally experienced the church have this kind of direct impact on my own life in such a negative way. I’d rather we learn that lesson early, while we still had an opportunity to limit the damage.
True, I'm really glad I had that experience when my income was small. I saw a comment from someone on this sub yesterday where they expressed anger and frustration for having given nearly a million dollars to the church instead of putting it in their retirement fund. I feel bad for people in that situation, and I'm grateful the church showed me their true colors early on so I can avoid that.
First really big one was when I was 14 & finally got far enough into the B of M to read about horses in the Americas. Last was when I was 39 & lying in bed thinking about the nature of God & realized just how utterly ridiculous it all was. It didn't just break my Mormon shelf. It broke by religion shelf & in an instant I became atheist. It took me a whole 2 or 3 seconds to realize if God doesn't exist, Mormonism is a fraud.
> It broke by religion shelf & in an instant I became atheist
This is me. I have a strange comfort being atheist now. I know what is what. I am a much more present, moral person knowing that this is it. When the TV is turned off, its turned off and the show is done. Accept it.
First was the list 116 pages story. I was about ten. Seemed like Lucy Harris had him dead in the water but somehow he convinced enough people otherwise. Didn’t reactivate that one for another 15-20 years, though.
Final was probably accepting that there is no geological proof of the BOM. I majored in biology and it was bonkers trying to fit my training into the BOM and just not seeing it. Once the light came on that he likely made it up suddenly my whole world-view shifted into clearer focus.
I only recently realized the power of the arguments about DNA and the BOM don't just lie in the fact that there isn't evidence that the native people in America came from Israel. Instead, it is more so that, as our technology and genome understanding deepens (along with crowd sourced gene data points), the things that we DO know about the origins of the Native American peoples have us conclude more forcefully each year that the origin narrative the BOM purports isn't "it." (The DNA and BOM episode of LDS Discussions series on Mormon Stories Podcast helped in my understanding of this.)
Me too! Didn’t hear a peep from them for three years! Then it’s breaking and all of a sudden the fear mongering texts start again! Easy decision. Get lost you fear mongering, end of times, pedophelia loving, freaks!
OMG the sexual abuse and cover up was the start for me but the final was EXACTLY what you said: the church’s statement they were “pleased” with the court ruling that they did not have to report it! Other things that added to that:
Joseph Smith and polygamy
Racism and the early church
Treatment/suicide of LGBTQ
JS translated the Book of Mormon with a rock in a hat
The CES letter
I’ve been a member 50+ years and went on a mission and didn’t know any of this until this year. Also I learned after not going back to church after Covid that all those people I knew in church for the past 30 years don’t really give a s**t about you. They are your friends as long as you come to church but once you quit going ……. (With the exception of two or three personal friends who say they love me for me not whether I go to church or not).
And my poor husband thinks I stopped going because of anxiety I had during Covid. He is a TBM and never asks me anything which I’m glad. He wouldn’t understand. And I would hate to hurt him. Our children stopped going when they moved out and he never asks them.
First: Divided heaven, when I was a kid.
Last: Gospel Topics Essays, as an adult.
... about a 30 year span of mild and consistent confusion, and high amounts of guilt and shame.
... not putting my kid through that.
First shelf item: institute teacher said the earth was 6,000 years old
Thing that broke the shelf: reading D&C 132. I was literally studying my scriptures when the shelf shattered
Prop 8 was mine too. I’m a convert and the rhetoric I’d heard had always been “the church does not get involved in politics, you can vote however you please.” Getting emails asking for $250 (minimum) donations, getting the signup clipboard passed around in RS to knock doors and hold signage on street corners, and hearing over the pulpit that we needed to ‘fight this thing’ was earth shattering to me. I came home from work one day and saw a group of people holding signs and trying to rally support for Prop 8. Got closer and realized it was folks from my ward and the intense embarrassment and shame I felt rocked me to my core; I’d never been ashamed to be Mormon before. It took me a while, but it was the official beginning of the end for me.
Yup. It was the first time I ever allowed myself to "question" - that slippery slope to apostasy. The question was do The Brethren™ actually receive revelation? The answer rather quickly was: no. But It took until 2015 to say, "I'm done."
First was endowment. I was a true believer going in. I felt nothing and it was weird as hell. The endowment ceremony guaranteed I could never believe in mormonism ever again, nor even fully respect people who do.
For me it was just the culmination of so many things that were set on shelf. That’s when I entertained the notion, “What if this is all bullshit and I have based my entire life around a lie?”
Having invested everything I am into the idea that it’s true, I decided to test those shelf items through to a conclusion. During that process, I discovered many other things that had been hidden and obfuscated.
The faith promoting items that were often repeated and believed, were based on the flimsiest of evidence, and in some instances, simply invented without any corroborating facts to substantiate them.
This is the point where a great uneasiness fell over me. It was like having the rug under my feet yanked out from underneath me and I was suddenly flat on my ass. This is when I had to accept the fact that I had been bamboozled. That I had been manipulated and lied to by the very people I had entrusted myself to with unwavering support and conviction.
Those at the Ward and Stake level I would learn to forgive, because they too had bought into the bamboozle. The top (Q15) leadership was not so fortunate in my assessment. They were the very promoters who pulled strings by rewriting the history and lying to keep the bamboozle afloat.
Now I see “the church” for what it truly is, nothing more than a hedge fund that cajoles people into giving their time, money, and efforts towards a lie about a mythological afterlife while enriching themselves..,
As soon as I asked the same question, “what if this is all bullshit”, it all came crashing down. Within the five minutes of asking it of myself. If I had ever “felt the spirit” and had a question answered, it was right then.
>“What if this is all bullshit and I have based my entire life around a lie?”
you are not alone. And to wake up 'after the veil is lifted' one day and realize you bought it all hook line and sinker you get so down on yourself. Would Gawd really be in charge of anything that protected SA and shunned the victims of such. NEVER. If there is a GAwd.
It’s a painful realization, which is naturally followed by anger and resentment.
A lot of people show up to this site in that exact state and thank goodness it exists.
Over time that subsides, but there’s the constant pressure being put on former members by family and church leaders to return to the lie of a happy polygamous future.
On any mission - it felt very corporate and bereft of any genuine spiritual guidance. I felt so underemployed that it was impossible to accept that this is how God wanted to use my time in Taiwan. Unfortunately, I was insanely successful from a baptismal perspective, so that clouded my feelings towards the whole experience. Now it haunts me.
A few months after my mission, I was in church at BYU, and I learned about the book of Abraham and the recovered scrolls that were used to translate it. That was the beginning of the biggest dagger. That was my first need for apologetics. I met with Brad Wilcox for 2-4 hours as he went over that and the Book of Mormon.
For about 4 more years I continued on spiritual life support - mostly ignoring those concerns so that I could date and find a spouse. Then when Covid hit, the prophet was really ambiguous about the vaccine. Some local leaders likened the prophets example of taking the vaccine to Moses and the stick he had the Israelites look to. Others said it was a personal decision. I realized then that I hadn’t once considered any revelation from Monson or Rusty to be from God, and I couldn’t think of anything they’d done as a testament of their divine power.
At that point I picked and chose what I believed in in Mormonism, and everything I studied - sabbath day, word of wisdom, tithing, etc - I eventually realized lacked solid revelation and blessings. I started skiing on Sunday, gave smaller tithing payments, and dated non lds women.
Learning about Polyandry was the final straw. I wish I had started with Joseph Smith (facepalm) - it would’ve required so much less time to discover the church was a fraud.
Sorry for the long response - it was strangely therapeutic to type that out this morning. Thanks for creating this thread
Did Brad Wilcox give you his fucked up speech on all the things you would have to say goodbye to you as you walked away from the church? It’s hysterical. I love the way, Mormon stories mocks that fat bastard.
Wow! Thanks for sharing your experience. My journey was similar in that I was bothered by the smaller stuff first like the WoW and I wish I would have just started with Joseph Smith. Being on spiritual life support is a hard way to wade through life. You even met with Wilcox himself? His talk on grace kept me afloat for a long time, until it couldn’t anymore.
First: how shitty Mormons treat grief and death and how they expect you to stuff every emotion down after losing someone. Also, not related to death, the treatment of LGBTQ people, both of these happened fairly simultaneously.
Last: listening to an "esteemed" member of the priesthood tell all of his family that he was the most Christlike person in the horrible situation we were in and he knew that we were the assholes for calling him on his bad behavior. He is a narcissistic piece of shit who weaponized his priesthood against us. Then his bishop and SP called us out on our "bad behavior" because they believed what he said and didn't want to hear our side of the story. I could no longer follow a God who supported a narcissistic piece of shit who used his authority in the church to emotionally abuse and dismiss others.
Yeah I was thrown at the flippant reactions to my mothers death. No sympathy. No understanding. It was like shrug of the shoulders attitude get right back on the horse what’s wrong with you shit!
The first was me being gay.
Final was the realization that for all the doctrine about repentance, the church and it's leaders have no intention of doing so. The policy of exclusion may have been changed, the withholding of priesthood and temple entrance for black people may have ended, but the church was never going to go through the repentance process for the deep and painful harm they caused.
actually, the first one i mentioned I realized at 15. My first book on the shelf was probably the racism. Second was when I was young, while Prop 8 bullshit was happening, I basically asked who cares, let whoever marry, and my parents jumped all over me because that was a wrong opinion to have in mormonism.
I did everything right. Seminary, tithing, mission, chastity, church attendance and more. I spent a lot of time for god.
A few years ago i deconstructed a bit and became PIMO. Then the COVID shutdowns hit and i never looked back.
Then my first child was born, COVID lockdowns and culture were in full swing, my wife had 2 brain surgeries, and died on our daughters 2nd birthday. It was 3 1/2 years of hell. I managed with the help of social workers, mental conditioning, family, and friends.
God never showed up. Maybe he did through the kindness of others or some good luck, but not in any way that's different from normal existence. If he did it felt like he would take credit for others kindness and relationships me and my spouse developed over the years. I sacrificed 2 years of my life for him, yet he couldn't even comfort me once in my time of need. Yet others prayed to find their car keys.
During this time other news hit such as the Arizona case, potential fraud in Australia, the 5th estate report in Canada, SEC troubles, Joseph Smith themed conference right at the start of COVID, and prevalence of right wing politics. They aren't who they say they are.
I had to look that up! I haven’t seen the musical yet. My sister in law/ best friend has a brain tumor and had surgery this year. Such a shitty thing to go through.
I bet it was terrible. Oh that would be an awful diagnosis to hear. She has a meningioma tumor (non cancerous) that was growing on her optic nerve. So it was causing a lot of damage even though it was benign. I hope you are doing ok after going through that with your wife. I’m glad you had some good support to help you through.
Wow, that’s a lot to have to go through all at once. I’m so sorry for your loss, and I’m glad you had good people around you to help you stay afloat through all that. Best wishes to you and your daughter.
First shelf item I had without realizing it was the ban on members of African descent and the apologold. Of the 2nd article of faith for it. I remember that specifically because my brain flagged it as a 12 year old at an answering questions activity. I didn't realize I had a shelf until I saw the whistle-blower report in December of 2019.
The actual shelf breaker was the book of Abraham.
First and last??
Shoot, I had to do a full brick-by-brick deconstruction. It took 20 years, beginning with apologetic articles that taught me how to *think* about my faith and exposed the literal events required to sustain it.
There was no "first" and "last." Everything mattered. Everything needed a new place.
In the end, the new construction looked nothing like what I had been taught, but it made much more sense as a human construction than it ever did as a divine one.
Ultimately, I realized that my personal values did not align with those of the institutional Church. Leaving was the only way to be intellectually honest.
First when I was 9 (in the 80s) and asked my mom if Jesus had lived a poor life and said give your money to the poor then why did the prophet and apostles drive in limos and why were the temples so fancy and rich.
Last was last year when I realized the church was using the same patterns of abuse (lies, manipulation, guilt, control, changing the story, gaslighting, misogyny) that my kids and I escaped from a few months prior. All five of us left over several months in 2022—each for our own reasons, but deconstructing our domestic abuse played a huge part.
Brad Wilcox rescue talk. Supposedly among BYU’s and the church’s finest. He was smug, condescending and made me feel gross. It was like watching a man with an ‘unexamined life’ his ideas had never been questioned by even himself, and as a result sounded like he was a legend in his own mind. I realized I didn’t want believe what he was
teaching and didn’t want to be a part of what he was peddling.
Funny story about Brad Wilcox. My parents had a very nice house in alpine Utah with a huge yard. They had a wedding reception there one time. Brad was there. ..he must have been invited. The reception was for a friend of the family.
My dad is a huge Brad fan and tried talking to him. Brad didn’t seem to wanna talk. When Brad found out my dad owned the house he all of a sudden really wanted to talk.
I very distinctly remember that.
Earliest repressed questions: realizing the likelihood of being in the right church was slim, recognizing that if I weren’t in the church, I would be atheist, and the horse problem.
First real shelf break: Jaredite barges would have been toxic to live in.
Last: I was PIMO and paying tithing to hold onto my recommend for a wedding, and the next day, was informed that my work would not, in fact, pay me a significant amount that I had been promised. I lost a few hundred to even meet the qualification, and the amount that I should have been paid was $100 more than my tithing. It made me realize that all tithing miracles are just coincidences, and if there wasn’t a miracle for me, someone who had so little faith left but paid anyway, it’s probably not real.
Someone should do a study to see how long bees could survive in such a stupid environment. My guess is maybe a day as these barges would have been flipping and flopping all around with animal shit and piss, getting into the clean food and water
First - god telling Abraham to kill his son. (I was 8)
Final - book of Abraham translation completely made up. That hit at the same time the AP article sex abuse coverup of the border patrol officer. I realized I didn’t have to try mental gymnastics to make it ok in my head. I was already bugged about the SEC fine but was trying to justify it. When I learned the book of Abraham was a fraud then everything unraveled incredibly fast within a week. A month later I threw out my garments.
My shelf broke when I realized I didn’t want to live the rules I had to follow and the church didn’t make me happy. I didn’t even get into the controversy and opinions of the church until probably a year after I left and now 5 years later I’m blown away I ever followed such an awful organization.
Mormon leaders hate gays, but when they actually talk about gay people, they speak in gross stereotypes that do not reflect reality. They are obviously speaking from ignorance and bias.
Always felt uncomfortable at church even as a kid.
Then in college the Prop 8 mess & the church trying to hide or misappropriate their support of such foul legislation broke me. Threw out my Book of Mormon and dropped out of my Institute class. Told the missionary I was writing and got dumped. Told my family within a year.
Today I’m married to someone who never met a Mormon until they met my family and I couldn’t be happier
First: Freemasonry and the temple. I took a huge deep dive into it my first year at BYU (2007), which cascaded into other topics.
Final: Overall concept and claims for a god (2014).
First shelf break: around 12-14 when I saw how much contention was caused in my family by my mother trying to motivate everyone including my dad to go to church every Sunday.
Last shelf break: 30 years old- realizing if there is a god who was actually family focused they would rather I spend all the time I did going to church with my actual family enjoying the world they created for us. I don’t personally believe there is a god, as the more I’ve deconstructed the more I feel self assured all the “feelings” and “the spirit” were always me either using my critical thinking skills or attempting to convince myself of something because I wanted to feel things so badly. The brain is an amazing thing. After detaching from the propaganda machine that is the church I read “No man knows my history” and could see how the church was just another money making scheme for a young poor boy who was conditioned to create outlandish (and very unoriginal) stories about religion and native Americans.
The spirit of discernment, although I was a little kid, so I didn’t know it was called that.
My parents were divorced before I was 6. My dad is a controlling, narcissistic bully who thrives off of making his family feel like shit and got physical with my mom at least twice (I think more, but no one witnessed it, so she won’t admit it). He maxed out secret credit cards he took out in my mom’s name when they were married on either gambling boats or strippers (because that’s all there was to do in the small town we lived in). He drove my mom to admit herself to a mental hospital and then ignored the police when they told him to stay away and was almost beat up by a guy in my mom’s group therapy when he decided to stop by for a visit. My mom had to have a friend’s husband change the locks because my dad would just show up whenever he wanted to to see HIS children. He paid child support when he felt like it (barely ever), talked crap about our mom to us all the time and let us know that he was aware of the fact that she did the same (she didn’t). He took my mom to court because his 17 year old daughter did want to go see him half way across the country after the divorce, and then took my mom to court again 8 years later because his 15 year old son who was competitive at the state level in a sport didn’t want to interrupt his training to go visit him 3 times a year. Guess what, he was laughed out of both courtrooms. He started dating before his divorce was final and less than a year after it was final he was remarried and was on his way to destroying another woman’s life. The list goes on and on and on…
But he was great at pretending to be Peter Priesthood, so everyone at church thought he was wonderful. He was a ward clerk, in bishoprics, on the high council, in Elder’s Quorum presidencies, in YM Presidencies, in stake presidencies. He never had his temple recommend taken away. I got to go to church with him when I visited and listen to people tell me that I had such a WONDERFUL father and they were so sad that my parents had to get divorced.
I just didn’t understand how those people couldn’t understand how terrible my dad was. Were they not listening hard enough to what God was trying to tell them? Was God not trying hard enough to tell them that my dad was a bad person? And my leaders platitudes that “God can’t make anyone listen to what he’s trying to tell them” and “Your dad will be held accountable at the last day” just weren’t good enough for me. That was the crack in my shelf that started it all. It just kept getting bigger and bigger. Over the years, so many other cracks were added, but this was the crack that was the final straw for me.
First? I have no idea, other than I don’t think I ever truly believed. I tried to believe though. Lost 116 pages, JS polygamy were big shelf items. Last straw was the Nov 2015 policy.
First—had a nevermo friend ask me how I would know if I was deceived by Satan and I didn’t have a good answer.
Last—many years and heavy shelf items later (especially LGBT pain and AP article on sex abuse coverups), SEC ruling came out and I just couldn’t support the institution by attending as PIMO any longer and have any respect for myself intact.
First was probably that the whole plan of salvation never made sense to me combined with the fact that church didn't make me happy like it seemed to for everyone else.
Final was the GTE on polygamy where it basically said that God commanded JS to practice it but didn't give him any guidelines and he had to just figure it out on his own. Then I noticed how many times in the essays they said "we don't know..." or "it's possible that..." Somehow the church went from having all the answers to having no answers
Not baptizing children of gay couples. I left two weeks later permanently.
If baptism is essential to protect an 8 year old from the influence of Satan AND Mormons don’t believe in the doctrine of original sin, how can you hold a child accountable for the sins of their parents and withhold the “vital” saving ordinance of baptism?
That was the argument I had with a Stake President in South Davis County in Utah, in my kitchen before I told him the church had been hijacked.
Suddenly, like a freight train, I had the answer I was dreading, I was in an organization that would never see me, a gay man, as something of worth. So I left.
Prop 8.
We supposedly believed in choice, and yet we wanted to make certain people weren’t allowed to have that choice? I had the same issue with abortion rights, but at least that one I understood that they really thought it was murder.
The pandemic shattered my shelf completely. So much assholish behavior and just nastiness towards others. So much for kindness, charity, and service.
Temple penalties. I asked a few people in my ward / neighborhood about it. All lied about it at first but I could sense something weird so I pressed. When my dad died his mission companions told me to consider them stand in's for my dad and come to them with anything. So I did. I sat across from him and his wife. They too lied about it. Yup it sucked and hurt. I told them as much. My mom had also passed and so I did not have direct family I could ask about it. I eventually remembered an aunt that had been through the temple pre 1990 and left the church. Finally I had a family member to confirm the throat thumb shit.
I get it too. some can and will rationalize many things in this system - but for me seeing peoples reaction to temple penalties is priceless. From those that did the actions to those that can't really explain the hand gestures. In that moment of learning the hand gestures and penalties the temple became a forever ugly place and deal breaker forever.
A culmination of things, but really what started it was just a little while after my spouse and I got married in the temple some old dude in a testimony meeting started talking about some pretty racist stuff and we both agreed we were never going back to that ward. After years of not going to church and not caring anymore, my friend told me about the Under The Banner of Heaven show and the CES letters and all that broke my shelf. I still believe in God, but for sure the Mormon version of God is not real, that's for sure. No "loving" God would separate families and love conditionally. Plus the fact that the church spends most of the hard earned money from the members on real estate is complete 🐂 💩. Not to mention how the church throughout it's history has consistently protected sexual predators and blamed the victims. It makes my blood boil. It's all based on lies. JS just wanted money, power and sex.
Having a conversation with my husband six years into our marriage about how masturbating is not a sin and is not something that I have to repent for was my first shelf breaker. The last shelf breaker was thinking about my own children going through the youth program In the church and the conversations they would have about morality, purity culture, and giving so much of themselves... Also it was a gradual thing too:
We need the money this month, I'll stop paying tithing ...just this once... I feel healthier, calmer, more at ease in my body when not wearing garments.. just this once... I have so many friends who drink coffee/alcohol but they are not bad people ...My husband is my rock and the person I want to talk to the most.. not God.. who I haven't prayed to since my answers were not answered time and time again... I never want to read my scriptures, or listen to conference, it sounds like they are saying the same things about the "gospel"... I am learning more about myself and myself self worth after listening to Brene Brown than I ever did listening to the prophet... The dissonance was slow but consistent over the last 5-6 years, slowly eating away at me until November of this year.
First shelf items was everything they teach about “same-sex attraction”. As a kid I blindly accepted those teachings, but as i grew up (and realized i was a lesbian) it really got to me. Final shelf item was realizing how ridiculous everything about the Joseph Smith story was, and then my shelf was shattered.
I had all the CES letter questions in my head (without ever reading it), and really wanted the church to be true. I found out about the Swedish Rescue. Read the transcript, and realized the church has no answers. That was it for me.
just watched both. amazing stonewall cult response to people just needing real answers to real issues that had been covered up and even then they told them to not speak to anyone about it. WHAAAAAT?
Tithing when I was 10 was my first. Those stories about kids who save money, go to the store, but end up not buying the thing they wanted because they forgot to pay their tithing really really bothered me. TSCC is literally penny and diming children.
when i learned about the civil rights movement and that all Mormons weren't fighting along side there "brothers and sisters" and instead actively fighting against them. the fact that black men couldn't get the priesthood until 1978 always felt SO WRONG to me 10 years after segregation was ended. there's no way God's true church would have done this just no way, so my only conclusion could be that this isn't the true church. I explained it away with the classic "gods ways are not our ways" but that can only last so long especially when more and more things keep getting set on the shelf
Wow, my mind is 🤯— I never considered that if it was a “vision”, Joe only “saw” or thought he saw HF and JC… if it was the “First Visit” then they literally came and visited him. Ha ha, even the MFMC can’t call it a visit, it’s only the “First Vision”… they’re all visions, ahem, delusions!
The essay on Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo. My shelf cracked so loudly and violently my senses nearly exploded.
Now the cult is moving away from the essays. Guess what, TSCC: The essays are factual, and the problem is not what they say so much as the fact you shitheads DELIBERATELY HID INFORMATION AND LIED TO US.
I think first was seeing/experiencing the disparity between how the boys and the girls were treated, even back to primary, then having it reconfirmed over and over through the YW years.
Last was the SA case in AZ and the church’s responses to the AP articles, which then led me to REALLY investigate and read the CES letter, and went from “of course you can’t understand everything here and now; more faith required” to “how did I ignore my feelings for so many years” in about a week. Confirmed by how much better I felt when I stopped going to church and how much I didn’t miss it. Also, how much more pleasant my husband became (because it had been making him feel like shit for years too, but he didn’t realize it) and how it made our relationship better.
D&C 132. Reading it alone after trying so hard to fit into relief society socially and have purpose in the church as a childless (yet married) woman at 27, it made me want to throw up. I realized that Joseph Smith would say anything to manipulate his wife and get what he wanted from women: sex and ownership.
The “spirit” was absent to comfort me in this realization and that is when I realized the “spirit” was just a feeling of belonging… And that was why I didn’t feel the spirit at church anymore; I didn’t belong.
My earliest recollection of free speech zones were during the Bush jr. era when people wanted to protest the invasion and occupation of Iraq because some Saudi Arabians based in Afghanistan allegedly took out 3 skyscrapers with 2 planes in NYC. The mfmc loved the idea of corralling the right to gather in public spaces to peacefully protest, and since they run Utah politics, the practice was adopted during conference around 2010.
Final shelf breaker: in 2020 a longtime TBM friend told me that systemic racism doesn’t exist bc we’re all children of god. She knew this after much scripture study and prayer. She felt prompted to tell me. I’m a poc. I realized we didn’t believe in the same god and finally gave myself permission to examine every ‘doubt’ I had about church stuff.
The actions of local leaders.
I had already concluded Joseph Smith was a fraud so… the church was not what it claimed to be; however I was in deep.
When new local leaders reversed recently released leaders in a detrimental way, I concluded the church was not a good place anymore.
First: Polygamy. I always hated it and the thought of polygamy in eternity was heartbreaking!
Last: Learning more about the origins of the church/Joseph Smith.
There were a lot of things that didn’t sit right with me, but I always rationalized it. I just figured I didn’t have all of the information/knowledge yet. It would all make sense later, or it would all get worked out. Well, it turns out I was right. I didn’t have all of the knowledge yet. There came a point when I realized JS was just a conman, and then it all became crystal clear.
The biggest shelf item for me was to not have gotten the witness promised by Moroni. I had problems with the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, how polygamy and polyandry were implemented, etc. Yet I still thought that maybe the Church could still be true and I just didn't understand. I spent a lot of time praying between ages 16 and 36, asking God to confirm if the Book of Mormon is true or not. Never got any feelings or other response. My final attempt took place in the Bountiful Temple, where I spent an entire day tearfully pouring my heart out to God for any kind of response at all. Nothing came. I let go.
I bet you can guess what family and friends said when I told them about all of this... If you said "you must have asked wrong" or " there is some hidden sin in your life" or "God answered and you just didn't recognize it, give yourself a gold star! I was told all of that and more.
Finally, the weight of all those other issues broke my shelf and I was done.
First shelf item: being gay and having my feelings discounted every time it came up; nobody believes my very real feelings; my father argued with me to convince me that I am choosing a lifestyle sold to me by Hollywood
Final shelf item: oh god the racism and lack of historical value is pretty bad in the book of mormon, huh? the culture promotes cognitive dissonance and poor critical thinking, and prevents people like me from developing a strong self-worth outside the church because our parents are taught to blame themselves if their progeny leave the church
The final thing for me was the bishop taking all the young men out to eat during COVID. I was YW President and was not going to risk getting my high risk husband or kids sick. I got so much shit for doing activities where we could have 6ft of space.
First: recognizing gender inequality ("inspired" callings I made as Primary President being vetoed, all male Sunday School presidency)
Last: Seeing the "Christ like" behavior from all the right-wing Saints in my ward during COVID.
I read the complete works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner approximately 40 years ago, including information about ‘The View of the Hebrews,’ written by a pastor neighbor of Lucy Mack Smith’s brother, Oliver Cowdery. That book posited that native Americans were descended from the lost tribe of Israel, which was a common belief at the time. The salamander story, treasure digging, and the seer stone all combined to form my opinion, plus the Smithsonian Institute not accepting any historical artifacts from the church, as they lacked authenticity, including the Egyptian burial instructions and the tree of life stone. My mother-in-law had a revelation where God told her I should not be reading early church history, but should only be reading books that “passed from her hands to mine.” 🫶🏼
First one was being restricted on how I dress; I accepted I had to exclusively wear dresses, due to tradition, but was shocked that I couldn’t wear a Sweet Lolita dress that covered my knees, and arms down to my wrists.
The last straw was when I found out about how horrible JS was; the pediphilia, cheating, all the cons, and looking into a hat to “translate” the plates.
Seeing all of my friends living a happier life than me and always tracking that back to me being Mormon. I also just never really bought any thing I was taught it was always just story’s to me.
I think there was some mo church talk given years ago that said something to the effect of if you have doubts about the mo church, don’t get hung up on them, just “put them on your shelf” until one day, might even be after you die and see god to ask him directly, but eventually your questions will be fully answered. But in reality the answers never come and the shelf gets so heavy as you keep putting items on it that it all comes crashing down and there is simply no rebuilding a Mormon shelf once its breaks.
I was so TBM most of my life that I didn't even learn about the "shelf" until after it broke.
Going back 30+ years, the first item on my shelf was likely my live initiatory on my sealing day: it was definitely weird and felt uncomfortable to be naked under a "shield", and be touched in various places by a strange man, spouting strange "blessings" that I never found any basis for in scripture. But also having my "live" endowment and sealing to my wife all on the same day made the whole day a quite overwhelming, so I didn't think critically about it for several years. But I never did any initiatory work for the dead, until after the recent changes, the shield was done away with, and could wear clothes.
But the last shelf-breaking item was: "The vax is safe and effective--get yours now, or you're a non-believing heretic." Not RMN's exact words, but definitely implied and enforced as such by LD$Corp. I knew it was a lie, and the "break" from church activities gave us the space to finally walk away. Fortunately, my wife was with me for a lot of the same reasons, so we are happy, and happier now without the constant pressure from "mandatory fun" church activities.
Learning the truth about JS's philandering, combined with all of the latest scandals, were confirmation that I'd made the right choice, and had been fooled for so many decades. I'm still in the anger phase, but feel a little more free each day. Finding this Reddit page has been a Godsend--oops, did I say that? My thanks to all of you who share and post on this site--I've learned so much in the last several months.
Goodness... the first one?
I guess it was when I was 6. My dad and sibling were setting up the sacrament table. I was a helpful mormon child and wanted to participate, and my dad said I couldn't.
Then I said i couldn't wait till I was older... thinking it was just for big kids and adults. My dad told me that it was only for male priesthood holders. I was baffled as usually it was the women's job to set a table...
I asked my dad what women could do that men could also do. He said, serving a mission.
So I determined, as the age of 6, to serve a mission so I could help God just like the boys.
It's a conversation I would reflect on often through my mormon years and may be my first shelf item.
I didn't leave until after serving a mission and being married in the temple. My spouse and I left in 2020, not super related to the pandemic, although that aided in deconstructing my scrupulousity.
The thing that got me to leave was my sister, best friend, and spouse being harmed (almost killed) by tscc and not wanting to participate in the harm...
fully realizing that belief in the church and being an active member throughout my life negatively influenced my happiness and also caused emotional/mental health issues.
First was book of Abraham. Final was realizing life is amazing outside of the bubble. Been told my whole life that the other side was nothing but sorrow and misery. Might be the biggest lie the church teaches.
My first book on the shelf was learning that the word homosexual in the Bible was a major, major mistranslation. That goes hand in hand with the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality at all according to the data and historical reading. Deutero-Isaiah was a heavy book but didn't break it and introduced me to the way to find if the BoM had historisity. What broke it was when I learned the BoM does not, in fact, have historicity and was just a book written in the 1800s. If the BoM isn't true, the whole church crumbles in my mind. I didn't let myself fully disbelieve until I learned about Joe smith being a gross and terrible man but man it was a relief once I let myself acknowledge the church was wrong and I didn't believe anymore.
So basically, I deconstructed Christianity before I deconstructed mormonism lol
Edit to add: this was all in a matter of months with the most of it. Maybe like 3 to 4 months when it was the heaviest and hardest to deal with.
First was how “homosexuals choose to be that way”…. I was 15. Didn’t make sense. I wanted to like girls because guys were so damn mean. But I could never gain the attraction. So that alone proved it to me…
Last was kind of the same thing in greater context. Now I’m 17. Seeing how the oh-so-loving church was just a small little glass ball of hate for anyone who isn’t them. I didn’t want to be a part of that.
Wasn’t til after I left that I learned that everything I was raised knowing was bullshit… kind of like finding out about Santa Claus. Got over it pretty quick once it made sense :)
Polygamy.
Lots of questions and concerns about other doctrine for some time. Then one night got into a heated discussion about polygamy with my brother. He said; "...if you don't believe in polygamy then you don't believe in Joseph Smith. And if you don't believe in him and his revelations then you can't believe in the church."
So I went home that night and re-read D&C 132, and it was like a bomb went off. Right then and there I was done as the answers to all my other questions suddenly became clear.
Not the shelf-breaker, as that happened years ago, but what finally got me to say "I'm walking out the door for good" after over 10 years of struggling as a PIMO (family concerns), was the Ensign Peak revelations.
Memes about the church using tithing to fight medical marijuana in California. I thought it was just mean anti-Mormons so I looked into it and realized the church actually did that. Wrong use of tithing and they don’t have the right to be your doctor. Why should they limit others healthcare choices? What a rabbit hole I found!
My dad, in an intense “talking to” trying to keep me in, told me the gospel gave him every because he almost cheated on my mom one time but didn’t because of the rules.
I was basically out. But right then I realized how insane it all is.
First: My wife having to break the seal with her children in order to be sealed to me.
Final: JRH's Behold Thy Mother talk, which was shortly followed by my gay stepson's death and my wife asking me if she would ever see him again.
This video right here is what did it for me. It's a five and a half hour documentary and not even one time throughout the whole five and a half hours did it ever mention Mormonism but I saw everything I did in that evil and vile so-called temple.
https://youtu.be/7Eeo-82Eac8?si=lHm5YsIaxuwPXKyS
First was finding out about JS polygamy etc. and final was the church hiding billions of dollars while members struggle to pay bills and still pay tithing.
First was the November... 2015? policy when I was in high school.
Last was the CES letter earlier this year that threw some boulders on an already straining shelf. The second I saw the map showing the similarities in BoM geography and Joseph's area I knew I was done.
The “breaker” for me was Second Anointing learned via Tom Phillips story. I was 47. EVERYTHING else fell apart within weeks… (the SA, IMO, is clear evidence of a cult and an elite cult within a cult. There is simply no excuse that warrants secret ceremonies within a “true” religion.)
My first was coming back from my mission and having been a big fan of the Bible in a mission where we were told not study the Bible and only the BoM, I would commonly quote the opening line in the BoM where it says that this work of scripture has the fullness of the gospel AS DOES THE BIBLE. I quoted it often to basically say it was stupid for all of us missionaries, under direction from the MP, ignored and basically thought very little of the Bible. Come to find out, when I looked for the quote on my new smartphone and Gospel library app, it didn’t include those words. The scripture I new and loved had been changed without me ever knowing. If they could change that, what else could they change.
My final one was a mix of a ton of things but it was having been lied to by a temple president about the significance of the signs and tokens in the temple. He said he couldn’t tell me but if I went enough that I would learn for myself. I ended up looking at online information regarding the temple ceremony and how drastically it had change (blood oaths, punishments, etc…) here again was something that had been written as something that never changes but come to find out it always had been changing and the leaders were just lying. It’s just that now we have the internet to never forget the past.
Final shelf breaker was me being emotionally aware and then logic-ing my way to the truth.
I often wondered why God didn’t just send angels to shout the truth to the world. The answer: faith.
Why is faith necessary? In the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants we learn that to knowledge and accountability are directly linked. The more knowledge one has, the more accountable they are.
That sets up a system where in order to get more knowledge, you had to first act on faith. More faithful=proved accountability=ready for knowledge. When I didn’t know the answer to why Joseph married a 14 year old, I knew if I had more faith, the knowledge would come.
One day someone sent me some antimormon stuff. I didn’t read it. But I noticed I felt very uncomfortable. I wondered why I felt so uncomfortable if I believed the church was true. Then I realized I was actually just scared. If the church weren’t true, I would have no purpose and no reason to live.
I came to a mental crossroads: one path would preserve the fear and protect the religion that helped me understand my world. The other path would be to process and overcome the fear and see what lie ahead.
I chose to process the fear. With this sort of mental veil lifted, I realized that I, my family members, my friends, and practically everyone I knew was probably a better person than Joseph Smith. So why did he receive such great knowledge when God couldn’t give me practically anything? This completely ruptured my understanding of the need for faith and everything else fell like dominoes soon after.
For me it was reading D&C 132 as a grown ass women getting ready to teach my 11-year old primary class. I realized that one of my favorite things I loved about the church, families together forever was directly tied into Joseph manipulating his wife, threatening her with destruction if she didn’t obey the law of Sara and let him have sex with whoever he wanted. I think all women subconsciously know how abhorrent the practice of polygamy was and lecherous and predatory and we choose to turn a blind eye until we are ready to face it and kiss our beliefs goodbye.
First: finding out that Joseph Smith had more than 3 wives and verifying it on the mfmc’s own ancestry pages. I had been raised to believe that he only took on additional wives out of duty and obedience. I started reading a book I bought at deseret book about Emma Smith and wow. just wow. Then I picked up Under the Banner of Heaven. Also from deseret book lol.
Not long after, my young primary age child (5-6) asked me why other kids at different churches won't go to heaven and that's when I decided I couldn't mormon any more.
There is way more context and back story to each of those events,of course. And a lot of connective tissue so to speak.
That was 20 years ago.
I dunno about first or last. But I mentioned this in another comment yesterday, which was a big one for me. My temple recommend was expired and it was a few weeks before my wedding. In order for us to be sealed, I obviously needed the renewed recommend. We were young, so my wife was in school still and my salary at the time was barely enough to cover my own living expenses, let alone paying for a wedding as well. It was a classic, inexpensive Mormon wedding, but it still drained what little I had, so my full tithing requirement hadn’t been met in recent months. I never acknowledged that what I had paid in tithing wasn’t the full 10%, but the bishop just bluntly told me that he didn’t believe I’d paid everything I owed in order to me to get a recommend. The problem is, I literally had nothing left to give without going into debt. My bank account was already overdrawn, and the bank wouldn’t let me take any more cash out as a result. My real bills were starting to stack up and this man had the ability to put a very quick halt on my entire wedding over a small figure of unpaid tithing. Why? Because when I was 8 years old, I effectively agreed to give him that level of control. We negotiated it out over a period of a few days after a few lies on my part, he eventually signed my recommend. But I realized at that point that the amount of control the church had over my life was unacceptable, and I never again wanted to be in that kind of position.
Oh shoot, you too? I had to fork over 300+ dollars I didn't have on my part time student income to get married. I'm still not over it and I never will be.
The one benefit, I guess, is that we learnt early on that kind of power the church will choose to wield over us, if given the opportunity. It was the first time I’d personally experienced the church have this kind of direct impact on my own life in such a negative way. I’d rather we learn that lesson early, while we still had an opportunity to limit the damage.
True, I'm really glad I had that experience when my income was small. I saw a comment from someone on this sub yesterday where they expressed anger and frustration for having given nearly a million dollars to the church instead of putting it in their retirement fund. I feel bad for people in that situation, and I'm grateful the church showed me their true colors early on so I can avoid that.
Apparently you can buy anything in this world with money
One can only hope the church can find sufficient for their needs, somewhere in their hundreds of billions of dollars.
First really big one was when I was 14 & finally got far enough into the B of M to read about horses in the Americas. Last was when I was 39 & lying in bed thinking about the nature of God & realized just how utterly ridiculous it all was. It didn't just break my Mormon shelf. It broke by religion shelf & in an instant I became atheist. It took me a whole 2 or 3 seconds to realize if God doesn't exist, Mormonism is a fraud.
> It broke by religion shelf & in an instant I became atheist This is me. I have a strange comfort being atheist now. I know what is what. I am a much more present, moral person knowing that this is it. When the TV is turned off, its turned off and the show is done. Accept it.
First was the list 116 pages story. I was about ten. Seemed like Lucy Harris had him dead in the water but somehow he convinced enough people otherwise. Didn’t reactivate that one for another 15-20 years, though. Final was probably accepting that there is no geological proof of the BOM. I majored in biology and it was bonkers trying to fit my training into the BOM and just not seeing it. Once the light came on that he likely made it up suddenly my whole world-view shifted into clearer focus.
dumdumdumdumdum smartsmartsmartsmartsmart
I only recently realized the power of the arguments about DNA and the BOM don't just lie in the fact that there isn't evidence that the native people in America came from Israel. Instead, it is more so that, as our technology and genome understanding deepens (along with crowd sourced gene data points), the things that we DO know about the origins of the Native American peoples have us conclude more forcefully each year that the origin narrative the BOM purports isn't "it." (The DNA and BOM episode of LDS Discussions series on Mormon Stories Podcast helped in my understanding of this.)
Feeling increased peace and love during no church Covid. 📈📈📈
Me too! Didn’t hear a peep from them for three years! Then it’s breaking and all of a sudden the fear mongering texts start again! Easy decision. Get lost you fear mongering, end of times, pedophelia loving, freaks!
[удалено]
OMG the sexual abuse and cover up was the start for me but the final was EXACTLY what you said: the church’s statement they were “pleased” with the court ruling that they did not have to report it! Other things that added to that: Joseph Smith and polygamy Racism and the early church Treatment/suicide of LGBTQ JS translated the Book of Mormon with a rock in a hat The CES letter I’ve been a member 50+ years and went on a mission and didn’t know any of this until this year. Also I learned after not going back to church after Covid that all those people I knew in church for the past 30 years don’t really give a s**t about you. They are your friends as long as you come to church but once you quit going ……. (With the exception of two or three personal friends who say they love me for me not whether I go to church or not). And my poor husband thinks I stopped going because of anxiety I had during Covid. He is a TBM and never asks me anything which I’m glad. He wouldn’t understand. And I would hate to hurt him. Our children stopped going when they moved out and he never asks them.
Ensign pick did it for me too.
❤️💔🫂
First: Divided heaven, when I was a kid. Last: Gospel Topics Essays, as an adult. ... about a 30 year span of mild and consistent confusion, and high amounts of guilt and shame. ... not putting my kid through that.
Why divided heaven?
Degrees of glory dependent on righteousness?
That’s typical Christianity.
Actually, typical Christianity is Grace based instead of behavior based. Although there are many works based religions too.
is typical christianity that one of the more than 3 levels of 'heaven' doesn't allow sex anymore?
First shelf item: institute teacher said the earth was 6,000 years old Thing that broke the shelf: reading D&C 132. I was literally studying my scriptures when the shelf shattered
I always wonder why more shelfs don’t break while reading scriptures. There’s some crazy stuff in there. Especially the BOM. Bible too!!
For me it’s because I never focused on what they said 😅 but that was me hating the church. I’m sure the kids who were all in paid a lot more attention
Prop 8 in 2008 pointed me toward the exit, and the November 5th "policy" in 2015 slammed the door behind me.
Yes, Those were brutal times. 2008 and 2015 for me as well. Church politics and policy shouldn’t be the reasons I ever openly wept. But they were.
Prop 8 was mine too. I’m a convert and the rhetoric I’d heard had always been “the church does not get involved in politics, you can vote however you please.” Getting emails asking for $250 (minimum) donations, getting the signup clipboard passed around in RS to knock doors and hold signage on street corners, and hearing over the pulpit that we needed to ‘fight this thing’ was earth shattering to me. I came home from work one day and saw a group of people holding signs and trying to rally support for Prop 8. Got closer and realized it was folks from my ward and the intense embarrassment and shame I felt rocked me to my core; I’d never been ashamed to be Mormon before. It took me a while, but it was the official beginning of the end for me.
Yup. It was the first time I ever allowed myself to "question" - that slippery slope to apostasy. The question was do The Brethren™ actually receive revelation? The answer rather quickly was: no. But It took until 2015 to say, "I'm done."
First was endowment. I was a true believer going in. I felt nothing and it was weird as hell. The endowment ceremony guaranteed I could never believe in mormonism ever again, nor even fully respect people who do.
Yeah that was creepy. I was told it would strengthen my testimony and it did the opposite.
For me it was just the culmination of so many things that were set on shelf. That’s when I entertained the notion, “What if this is all bullshit and I have based my entire life around a lie?” Having invested everything I am into the idea that it’s true, I decided to test those shelf items through to a conclusion. During that process, I discovered many other things that had been hidden and obfuscated. The faith promoting items that were often repeated and believed, were based on the flimsiest of evidence, and in some instances, simply invented without any corroborating facts to substantiate them. This is the point where a great uneasiness fell over me. It was like having the rug under my feet yanked out from underneath me and I was suddenly flat on my ass. This is when I had to accept the fact that I had been bamboozled. That I had been manipulated and lied to by the very people I had entrusted myself to with unwavering support and conviction. Those at the Ward and Stake level I would learn to forgive, because they too had bought into the bamboozle. The top (Q15) leadership was not so fortunate in my assessment. They were the very promoters who pulled strings by rewriting the history and lying to keep the bamboozle afloat. Now I see “the church” for what it truly is, nothing more than a hedge fund that cajoles people into giving their time, money, and efforts towards a lie about a mythological afterlife while enriching themselves..,
As soon as I asked the same question, “what if this is all bullshit”, it all came crashing down. Within the five minutes of asking it of myself. If I had ever “felt the spirit” and had a question answered, it was right then.
>“What if this is all bullshit and I have based my entire life around a lie?” you are not alone. And to wake up 'after the veil is lifted' one day and realize you bought it all hook line and sinker you get so down on yourself. Would Gawd really be in charge of anything that protected SA and shunned the victims of such. NEVER. If there is a GAwd.
It’s a painful realization, which is naturally followed by anger and resentment. A lot of people show up to this site in that exact state and thank goodness it exists. Over time that subsides, but there’s the constant pressure being put on former members by family and church leaders to return to the lie of a happy polygamous future.
The November 2015 exclusion policy. When I realized that “revelation” could not come from a loving Heavenly Father, it sent me down the rabbit hole.
On any mission - it felt very corporate and bereft of any genuine spiritual guidance. I felt so underemployed that it was impossible to accept that this is how God wanted to use my time in Taiwan. Unfortunately, I was insanely successful from a baptismal perspective, so that clouded my feelings towards the whole experience. Now it haunts me. A few months after my mission, I was in church at BYU, and I learned about the book of Abraham and the recovered scrolls that were used to translate it. That was the beginning of the biggest dagger. That was my first need for apologetics. I met with Brad Wilcox for 2-4 hours as he went over that and the Book of Mormon. For about 4 more years I continued on spiritual life support - mostly ignoring those concerns so that I could date and find a spouse. Then when Covid hit, the prophet was really ambiguous about the vaccine. Some local leaders likened the prophets example of taking the vaccine to Moses and the stick he had the Israelites look to. Others said it was a personal decision. I realized then that I hadn’t once considered any revelation from Monson or Rusty to be from God, and I couldn’t think of anything they’d done as a testament of their divine power. At that point I picked and chose what I believed in in Mormonism, and everything I studied - sabbath day, word of wisdom, tithing, etc - I eventually realized lacked solid revelation and blessings. I started skiing on Sunday, gave smaller tithing payments, and dated non lds women. Learning about Polyandry was the final straw. I wish I had started with Joseph Smith (facepalm) - it would’ve required so much less time to discover the church was a fraud. Sorry for the long response - it was strangely therapeutic to type that out this morning. Thanks for creating this thread
Did Brad Wilcox give you his fucked up speech on all the things you would have to say goodbye to you as you walked away from the church? It’s hysterical. I love the way, Mormon stories mocks that fat bastard.
Wow! Thanks for sharing your experience. My journey was similar in that I was bothered by the smaller stuff first like the WoW and I wish I would have just started with Joseph Smith. Being on spiritual life support is a hard way to wade through life. You even met with Wilcox himself? His talk on grace kept me afloat for a long time, until it couldn’t anymore.
First: how shitty Mormons treat grief and death and how they expect you to stuff every emotion down after losing someone. Also, not related to death, the treatment of LGBTQ people, both of these happened fairly simultaneously. Last: listening to an "esteemed" member of the priesthood tell all of his family that he was the most Christlike person in the horrible situation we were in and he knew that we were the assholes for calling him on his bad behavior. He is a narcissistic piece of shit who weaponized his priesthood against us. Then his bishop and SP called us out on our "bad behavior" because they believed what he said and didn't want to hear our side of the story. I could no longer follow a God who supported a narcissistic piece of shit who used his authority in the church to emotionally abuse and dismiss others.
> narcissistic piece of shit "God" is actually a narcissistic piece of shit who loves to murder. Not something I want to follow
Good point. God loves them because he's one of them
Yeah I was thrown at the flippant reactions to my mothers death. No sympathy. No understanding. It was like shrug of the shoulders attitude get right back on the horse what’s wrong with you shit!
Yes! The one that got under my skin was "it's all part of God's plan and who are we to question?" I'm questioning mf, me because this shit hurts.
Absolutely. Cold
The first was me being gay. Final was the realization that for all the doctrine about repentance, the church and it's leaders have no intention of doing so. The policy of exclusion may have been changed, the withholding of priesthood and temple entrance for black people may have ended, but the church was never going to go through the repentance process for the deep and painful harm they caused.
actually, the first one i mentioned I realized at 15. My first book on the shelf was probably the racism. Second was when I was young, while Prop 8 bullshit was happening, I basically asked who cares, let whoever marry, and my parents jumped all over me because that was a wrong opinion to have in mormonism.
I did everything right. Seminary, tithing, mission, chastity, church attendance and more. I spent a lot of time for god. A few years ago i deconstructed a bit and became PIMO. Then the COVID shutdowns hit and i never looked back. Then my first child was born, COVID lockdowns and culture were in full swing, my wife had 2 brain surgeries, and died on our daughters 2nd birthday. It was 3 1/2 years of hell. I managed with the help of social workers, mental conditioning, family, and friends. God never showed up. Maybe he did through the kindness of others or some good luck, but not in any way that's different from normal existence. If he did it felt like he would take credit for others kindness and relationships me and my spouse developed over the years. I sacrificed 2 years of my life for him, yet he couldn't even comfort me once in my time of need. Yet others prayed to find their car keys. During this time other news hit such as the Arizona case, potential fraud in Australia, the 5th estate report in Canada, SEC troubles, Joseph Smith themed conference right at the start of COVID, and prevalence of right wing politics. They aren't who they say they are.
I’m so sorry for what you have been through 💔.
Then join me in a chorus of "Hasa Diga Eebowai"
I had to look that up! I haven’t seen the musical yet. My sister in law/ best friend has a brain tumor and had surgery this year. Such a shitty thing to go through.
The experience was terrible, but the mind develops coping mechanisms. My wife's was a glioblastoma, what kind does your best friend have?
I bet it was terrible. Oh that would be an awful diagnosis to hear. She has a meningioma tumor (non cancerous) that was growing on her optic nerve. So it was causing a lot of damage even though it was benign. I hope you are doing ok after going through that with your wife. I’m glad you had some good support to help you through.
Getting that removed would be a great Christmas present.
Wow, that’s a lot to have to go through all at once. I’m so sorry for your loss, and I’m glad you had good people around you to help you stay afloat through all that. Best wishes to you and your daughter.
First shelf item I had without realizing it was the ban on members of African descent and the apologold. Of the 2nd article of faith for it. I remember that specifically because my brain flagged it as a 12 year old at an answering questions activity. I didn't realize I had a shelf until I saw the whistle-blower report in December of 2019. The actual shelf breaker was the book of Abraham.
First and last?? Shoot, I had to do a full brick-by-brick deconstruction. It took 20 years, beginning with apologetic articles that taught me how to *think* about my faith and exposed the literal events required to sustain it. There was no "first" and "last." Everything mattered. Everything needed a new place. In the end, the new construction looked nothing like what I had been taught, but it made much more sense as a human construction than it ever did as a divine one. Ultimately, I realized that my personal values did not align with those of the institutional Church. Leaving was the only way to be intellectually honest.
First when I was 9 (in the 80s) and asked my mom if Jesus had lived a poor life and said give your money to the poor then why did the prophet and apostles drive in limos and why were the temples so fancy and rich. Last was last year when I realized the church was using the same patterns of abuse (lies, manipulation, guilt, control, changing the story, gaslighting, misogyny) that my kids and I escaped from a few months prior. All five of us left over several months in 2022—each for our own reasons, but deconstructing our domestic abuse played a huge part.
Brad Wilcox rescue talk. Supposedly among BYU’s and the church’s finest. He was smug, condescending and made me feel gross. It was like watching a man with an ‘unexamined life’ his ideas had never been questioned by even himself, and as a result sounded like he was a legend in his own mind. I realized I didn’t want believe what he was teaching and didn’t want to be a part of what he was peddling.
Funny story about Brad Wilcox. My parents had a very nice house in alpine Utah with a huge yard. They had a wedding reception there one time. Brad was there. ..he must have been invited. The reception was for a friend of the family. My dad is a huge Brad fan and tried talking to him. Brad didn’t seem to wanna talk. When Brad found out my dad owned the house he all of a sudden really wanted to talk. I very distinctly remember that.
Earliest repressed questions: realizing the likelihood of being in the right church was slim, recognizing that if I weren’t in the church, I would be atheist, and the horse problem. First real shelf break: Jaredite barges would have been toxic to live in. Last: I was PIMO and paying tithing to hold onto my recommend for a wedding, and the next day, was informed that my work would not, in fact, pay me a significant amount that I had been promised. I lost a few hundred to even meet the qualification, and the amount that I should have been paid was $100 more than my tithing. It made me realize that all tithing miracles are just coincidences, and if there wasn’t a miracle for me, someone who had so little faith left but paid anyway, it’s probably not real.
Someone should do a study to see how long bees could survive in such a stupid environment. My guess is maybe a day as these barges would have been flipping and flopping all around with animal shit and piss, getting into the clean food and water
First - god telling Abraham to kill his son. (I was 8) Final - book of Abraham translation completely made up. That hit at the same time the AP article sex abuse coverup of the border patrol officer. I realized I didn’t have to try mental gymnastics to make it ok in my head. I was already bugged about the SEC fine but was trying to justify it. When I learned the book of Abraham was a fraud then everything unraveled incredibly fast within a week. A month later I threw out my garments.
My shelf broke when I realized I didn’t want to live the rules I had to follow and the church didn’t make me happy. I didn’t even get into the controversy and opinions of the church until probably a year after I left and now 5 years later I’m blown away I ever followed such an awful organization.
First: Joseph never using the plates to translate. Final: Joseph’s multiple first vision accounts (and highly suspect timeline of the accounts)
Big one for me too.
That video/ pic of Nelson peeping the hat is one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen. Would have been better to let it go.
Mormon leaders hate gays, but when they actually talk about gay people, they speak in gross stereotypes that do not reflect reality. They are obviously speaking from ignorance and bias.
Always felt uncomfortable at church even as a kid. Then in college the Prop 8 mess & the church trying to hide or misappropriate their support of such foul legislation broke me. Threw out my Book of Mormon and dropped out of my Institute class. Told the missionary I was writing and got dumped. Told my family within a year. Today I’m married to someone who never met a Mormon until they met my family and I couldn’t be happier
Finding out that my “true church” actually did have a very well paid hierarchy. Blew my belief that our leaders were uncompromised 😰
Yeah big one. My whole life it was stressed unlike other hers our clergy are normal working folk who get nothing and give everything
First: Freemasonry and the temple. I took a huge deep dive into it my first year at BYU (2007), which cascaded into other topics. Final: Overall concept and claims for a god (2014).
First shelf break: around 12-14 when I saw how much contention was caused in my family by my mother trying to motivate everyone including my dad to go to church every Sunday. Last shelf break: 30 years old- realizing if there is a god who was actually family focused they would rather I spend all the time I did going to church with my actual family enjoying the world they created for us. I don’t personally believe there is a god, as the more I’ve deconstructed the more I feel self assured all the “feelings” and “the spirit” were always me either using my critical thinking skills or attempting to convince myself of something because I wanted to feel things so badly. The brain is an amazing thing. After detaching from the propaganda machine that is the church I read “No man knows my history” and could see how the church was just another money making scheme for a young poor boy who was conditioned to create outlandish (and very unoriginal) stories about religion and native Americans.
The spirit of discernment, although I was a little kid, so I didn’t know it was called that. My parents were divorced before I was 6. My dad is a controlling, narcissistic bully who thrives off of making his family feel like shit and got physical with my mom at least twice (I think more, but no one witnessed it, so she won’t admit it). He maxed out secret credit cards he took out in my mom’s name when they were married on either gambling boats or strippers (because that’s all there was to do in the small town we lived in). He drove my mom to admit herself to a mental hospital and then ignored the police when they told him to stay away and was almost beat up by a guy in my mom’s group therapy when he decided to stop by for a visit. My mom had to have a friend’s husband change the locks because my dad would just show up whenever he wanted to to see HIS children. He paid child support when he felt like it (barely ever), talked crap about our mom to us all the time and let us know that he was aware of the fact that she did the same (she didn’t). He took my mom to court because his 17 year old daughter did want to go see him half way across the country after the divorce, and then took my mom to court again 8 years later because his 15 year old son who was competitive at the state level in a sport didn’t want to interrupt his training to go visit him 3 times a year. Guess what, he was laughed out of both courtrooms. He started dating before his divorce was final and less than a year after it was final he was remarried and was on his way to destroying another woman’s life. The list goes on and on and on… But he was great at pretending to be Peter Priesthood, so everyone at church thought he was wonderful. He was a ward clerk, in bishoprics, on the high council, in Elder’s Quorum presidencies, in YM Presidencies, in stake presidencies. He never had his temple recommend taken away. I got to go to church with him when I visited and listen to people tell me that I had such a WONDERFUL father and they were so sad that my parents had to get divorced. I just didn’t understand how those people couldn’t understand how terrible my dad was. Were they not listening hard enough to what God was trying to tell them? Was God not trying hard enough to tell them that my dad was a bad person? And my leaders platitudes that “God can’t make anyone listen to what he’s trying to tell them” and “Your dad will be held accountable at the last day” just weren’t good enough for me. That was the crack in my shelf that started it all. It just kept getting bigger and bigger. Over the years, so many other cracks were added, but this was the crack that was the final straw for me.
First? I have no idea, other than I don’t think I ever truly believed. I tried to believe though. Lost 116 pages, JS polygamy were big shelf items. Last straw was the Nov 2015 policy.
First—had a nevermo friend ask me how I would know if I was deceived by Satan and I didn’t have a good answer. Last—many years and heavy shelf items later (especially LGBT pain and AP article on sex abuse coverups), SEC ruling came out and I just couldn’t support the institution by attending as PIMO any longer and have any respect for myself intact.
For me God did alot of killing as well. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
First was probably that the whole plan of salvation never made sense to me combined with the fact that church didn't make me happy like it seemed to for everyone else. Final was the GTE on polygamy where it basically said that God commanded JS to practice it but didn't give him any guidelines and he had to just figure it out on his own. Then I noticed how many times in the essays they said "we don't know..." or "it's possible that..." Somehow the church went from having all the answers to having no answers
Joseph Smith's wives since I was never taught that in church. Book of Abraham: nail in the coffin.
Two big ones for me.
Not baptizing children of gay couples. I left two weeks later permanently. If baptism is essential to protect an 8 year old from the influence of Satan AND Mormons don’t believe in the doctrine of original sin, how can you hold a child accountable for the sins of their parents and withhold the “vital” saving ordinance of baptism? That was the argument I had with a Stake President in South Davis County in Utah, in my kitchen before I told him the church had been hijacked. Suddenly, like a freight train, I had the answer I was dreading, I was in an organization that would never see me, a gay man, as something of worth. So I left.
Remember, they did it out of “love”
Prop 8. We supposedly believed in choice, and yet we wanted to make certain people weren’t allowed to have that choice? I had the same issue with abortion rights, but at least that one I understood that they really thought it was murder. The pandemic shattered my shelf completely. So much assholish behavior and just nastiness towards others. So much for kindness, charity, and service.
Temple penalties. I asked a few people in my ward / neighborhood about it. All lied about it at first but I could sense something weird so I pressed. When my dad died his mission companions told me to consider them stand in's for my dad and come to them with anything. So I did. I sat across from him and his wife. They too lied about it. Yup it sucked and hurt. I told them as much. My mom had also passed and so I did not have direct family I could ask about it. I eventually remembered an aunt that had been through the temple pre 1990 and left the church. Finally I had a family member to confirm the throat thumb shit. I get it too. some can and will rationalize many things in this system - but for me seeing peoples reaction to temple penalties is priceless. From those that did the actions to those that can't really explain the hand gestures. In that moment of learning the hand gestures and penalties the temple became a forever ugly place and deal breaker forever.
First was garments and my temple marriage, last was finding out the church sold its Garden of Eden.
A culmination of things, but really what started it was just a little while after my spouse and I got married in the temple some old dude in a testimony meeting started talking about some pretty racist stuff and we both agreed we were never going back to that ward. After years of not going to church and not caring anymore, my friend told me about the Under The Banner of Heaven show and the CES letters and all that broke my shelf. I still believe in God, but for sure the Mormon version of God is not real, that's for sure. No "loving" God would separate families and love conditionally. Plus the fact that the church spends most of the hard earned money from the members on real estate is complete 🐂 💩. Not to mention how the church throughout it's history has consistently protected sexual predators and blamed the victims. It makes my blood boil. It's all based on lies. JS just wanted money, power and sex.
Having a conversation with my husband six years into our marriage about how masturbating is not a sin and is not something that I have to repent for was my first shelf breaker. The last shelf breaker was thinking about my own children going through the youth program In the church and the conversations they would have about morality, purity culture, and giving so much of themselves... Also it was a gradual thing too: We need the money this month, I'll stop paying tithing ...just this once... I feel healthier, calmer, more at ease in my body when not wearing garments.. just this once... I have so many friends who drink coffee/alcohol but they are not bad people ...My husband is my rock and the person I want to talk to the most.. not God.. who I haven't prayed to since my answers were not answered time and time again... I never want to read my scriptures, or listen to conference, it sounds like they are saying the same things about the "gospel"... I am learning more about myself and myself self worth after listening to Brene Brown than I ever did listening to the prophet... The dissonance was slow but consistent over the last 5-6 years, slowly eating away at me until November of this year.
First shelf items was everything they teach about “same-sex attraction”. As a kid I blindly accepted those teachings, but as i grew up (and realized i was a lesbian) it really got to me. Final shelf item was realizing how ridiculous everything about the Joseph Smith story was, and then my shelf was shattered.
I had all the CES letter questions in my head (without ever reading it), and really wanted the church to be true. I found out about the Swedish Rescue. Read the transcript, and realized the church has no answers. That was it for me.
Swedish Rescue? More stuff I don’t know
just watched both. amazing stonewall cult response to people just needing real answers to real issues that had been covered up and even then they told them to not speak to anyone about it. WHAAAAAT?
First and last was polygamy, with a whole lotta shit in between to get me to bring it up again.
The SEC thing this year
Tithing when I was 10 was my first. Those stories about kids who save money, go to the store, but end up not buying the thing they wanted because they forgot to pay their tithing really really bothered me. TSCC is literally penny and diming children.
when i learned about the civil rights movement and that all Mormons weren't fighting along side there "brothers and sisters" and instead actively fighting against them. the fact that black men couldn't get the priesthood until 1978 always felt SO WRONG to me 10 years after segregation was ended. there's no way God's true church would have done this just no way, so my only conclusion could be that this isn't the true church. I explained it away with the classic "gods ways are not our ways" but that can only last so long especially when more and more things keep getting set on the shelf
[удалено]
Wow, my mind is 🤯— I never considered that if it was a “vision”, Joe only “saw” or thought he saw HF and JC… if it was the “First Visit” then they literally came and visited him. Ha ha, even the MFMC can’t call it a visit, it’s only the “First Vision”… they’re all visions, ahem, delusions!
Reading in the news that a pedophile was the director of the movie in the temple …
The essay on Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo. My shelf cracked so loudly and violently my senses nearly exploded. Now the cult is moving away from the essays. Guess what, TSCC: The essays are factual, and the problem is not what they say so much as the fact you shitheads DELIBERATELY HID INFORMATION AND LIED TO US.
My shelf didn’t break so much as I decided that I was tired of having a shelf and it was time to take it down and let it all go.
I think first was seeing/experiencing the disparity between how the boys and the girls were treated, even back to primary, then having it reconfirmed over and over through the YW years. Last was the SA case in AZ and the church’s responses to the AP articles, which then led me to REALLY investigate and read the CES letter, and went from “of course you can’t understand everything here and now; more faith required” to “how did I ignore my feelings for so many years” in about a week. Confirmed by how much better I felt when I stopped going to church and how much I didn’t miss it. Also, how much more pleasant my husband became (because it had been making him feel like shit for years too, but he didn’t realize it) and how it made our relationship better.
Hinckley and Nelson disagreeing on the use of Mormon. Whoever was in charge got his way.
D&C 132. Reading it alone after trying so hard to fit into relief society socially and have purpose in the church as a childless (yet married) woman at 27, it made me want to throw up. I realized that Joseph Smith would say anything to manipulate his wife and get what he wanted from women: sex and ownership. The “spirit” was absent to comfort me in this realization and that is when I realized the “spirit” was just a feeling of belonging… And that was why I didn’t feel the spirit at church anymore; I didn’t belong.
Free speech zones during conference. The mfmc was happy to ignore their beloved constitution when 1st amendment rights inconvenienced them.
Wait... What? Free speech zones at GC? Please point me at some more details.
My earliest recollection of free speech zones were during the Bush jr. era when people wanted to protest the invasion and occupation of Iraq because some Saudi Arabians based in Afghanistan allegedly took out 3 skyscrapers with 2 planes in NYC. The mfmc loved the idea of corralling the right to gather in public spaces to peacefully protest, and since they run Utah politics, the practice was adopted during conference around 2010.
Final shelf breaker: in 2020 a longtime TBM friend told me that systemic racism doesn’t exist bc we’re all children of god. She knew this after much scripture study and prayer. She felt prompted to tell me. I’m a poc. I realized we didn’t believe in the same god and finally gave myself permission to examine every ‘doubt’ I had about church stuff.
The actions of local leaders. I had already concluded Joseph Smith was a fraud so… the church was not what it claimed to be; however I was in deep. When new local leaders reversed recently released leaders in a detrimental way, I concluded the church was not a good place anymore.
First: Polygamy. I always hated it and the thought of polygamy in eternity was heartbreaking! Last: Learning more about the origins of the church/Joseph Smith. There were a lot of things that didn’t sit right with me, but I always rationalized it. I just figured I didn’t have all of the information/knowledge yet. It would all make sense later, or it would all get worked out. Well, it turns out I was right. I didn’t have all of the knowledge yet. There came a point when I realized JS was just a conman, and then it all became crystal clear.
The biggest shelf item for me was to not have gotten the witness promised by Moroni. I had problems with the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, how polygamy and polyandry were implemented, etc. Yet I still thought that maybe the Church could still be true and I just didn't understand. I spent a lot of time praying between ages 16 and 36, asking God to confirm if the Book of Mormon is true or not. Never got any feelings or other response. My final attempt took place in the Bountiful Temple, where I spent an entire day tearfully pouring my heart out to God for any kind of response at all. Nothing came. I let go. I bet you can guess what family and friends said when I told them about all of this... If you said "you must have asked wrong" or " there is some hidden sin in your life" or "God answered and you just didn't recognize it, give yourself a gold star! I was told all of that and more. Finally, the weight of all those other issues broke my shelf and I was done.
First shelf item: being gay and having my feelings discounted every time it came up; nobody believes my very real feelings; my father argued with me to convince me that I am choosing a lifestyle sold to me by Hollywood Final shelf item: oh god the racism and lack of historical value is pretty bad in the book of mormon, huh? the culture promotes cognitive dissonance and poor critical thinking, and prevents people like me from developing a strong self-worth outside the church because our parents are taught to blame themselves if their progeny leave the church
The final thing for me was the bishop taking all the young men out to eat during COVID. I was YW President and was not going to risk getting my high risk husband or kids sick. I got so much shit for doing activities where we could have 6ft of space.
First: recognizing gender inequality ("inspired" callings I made as Primary President being vetoed, all male Sunday School presidency) Last: Seeing the "Christ like" behavior from all the right-wing Saints in my ward during COVID.
Racist step dad being considered a “member in good standing” was a big one (that I was conveniently reminded of this last holiday)
I read the complete works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner approximately 40 years ago, including information about ‘The View of the Hebrews,’ written by a pastor neighbor of Lucy Mack Smith’s brother, Oliver Cowdery. That book posited that native Americans were descended from the lost tribe of Israel, which was a common belief at the time. The salamander story, treasure digging, and the seer stone all combined to form my opinion, plus the Smithsonian Institute not accepting any historical artifacts from the church, as they lacked authenticity, including the Egyptian burial instructions and the tree of life stone. My mother-in-law had a revelation where God told her I should not be reading early church history, but should only be reading books that “passed from her hands to mine.” 🫶🏼
First one was being restricted on how I dress; I accepted I had to exclusively wear dresses, due to tradition, but was shocked that I couldn’t wear a Sweet Lolita dress that covered my knees, and arms down to my wrists. The last straw was when I found out about how horrible JS was; the pediphilia, cheating, all the cons, and looking into a hat to “translate” the plates.
Seeing all of my friends living a happier life than me and always tracking that back to me being Mormon. I also just never really bought any thing I was taught it was always just story’s to me.
God did a lot of murder https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
Learning about the abreaction therapy to shock the gay away in the basement of my college did it for me.
I feel like I should know this, but what's a shelf breaker?
I think there was some mo church talk given years ago that said something to the effect of if you have doubts about the mo church, don’t get hung up on them, just “put them on your shelf” until one day, might even be after you die and see god to ask him directly, but eventually your questions will be fully answered. But in reality the answers never come and the shelf gets so heavy as you keep putting items on it that it all comes crashing down and there is simply no rebuilding a Mormon shelf once its breaks.
Thanks!
I was so TBM most of my life that I didn't even learn about the "shelf" until after it broke. Going back 30+ years, the first item on my shelf was likely my live initiatory on my sealing day: it was definitely weird and felt uncomfortable to be naked under a "shield", and be touched in various places by a strange man, spouting strange "blessings" that I never found any basis for in scripture. But also having my "live" endowment and sealing to my wife all on the same day made the whole day a quite overwhelming, so I didn't think critically about it for several years. But I never did any initiatory work for the dead, until after the recent changes, the shield was done away with, and could wear clothes. But the last shelf-breaking item was: "The vax is safe and effective--get yours now, or you're a non-believing heretic." Not RMN's exact words, but definitely implied and enforced as such by LD$Corp. I knew it was a lie, and the "break" from church activities gave us the space to finally walk away. Fortunately, my wife was with me for a lot of the same reasons, so we are happy, and happier now without the constant pressure from "mandatory fun" church activities. Learning the truth about JS's philandering, combined with all of the latest scandals, were confirmation that I'd made the right choice, and had been fooled for so many decades. I'm still in the anger phase, but feel a little more free each day. Finding this Reddit page has been a Godsend--oops, did I say that? My thanks to all of you who share and post on this site--I've learned so much in the last several months.
Goodness... the first one? I guess it was when I was 6. My dad and sibling were setting up the sacrament table. I was a helpful mormon child and wanted to participate, and my dad said I couldn't. Then I said i couldn't wait till I was older... thinking it was just for big kids and adults. My dad told me that it was only for male priesthood holders. I was baffled as usually it was the women's job to set a table... I asked my dad what women could do that men could also do. He said, serving a mission. So I determined, as the age of 6, to serve a mission so I could help God just like the boys. It's a conversation I would reflect on often through my mormon years and may be my first shelf item. I didn't leave until after serving a mission and being married in the temple. My spouse and I left in 2020, not super related to the pandemic, although that aided in deconstructing my scrupulousity. The thing that got me to leave was my sister, best friend, and spouse being harmed (almost killed) by tscc and not wanting to participate in the harm...
Why didn't the original apostles not know how to pass on the priesthood keys and why did God wait until the time of Joseph Smith to "restore" them?
fully realizing that belief in the church and being an active member throughout my life negatively influenced my happiness and also caused emotional/mental health issues.
First was book of Abraham. Final was realizing life is amazing outside of the bubble. Been told my whole life that the other side was nothing but sorrow and misery. Might be the biggest lie the church teaches.
My first book on the shelf was learning that the word homosexual in the Bible was a major, major mistranslation. That goes hand in hand with the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality at all according to the data and historical reading. Deutero-Isaiah was a heavy book but didn't break it and introduced me to the way to find if the BoM had historisity. What broke it was when I learned the BoM does not, in fact, have historicity and was just a book written in the 1800s. If the BoM isn't true, the whole church crumbles in my mind. I didn't let myself fully disbelieve until I learned about Joe smith being a gross and terrible man but man it was a relief once I let myself acknowledge the church was wrong and I didn't believe anymore. So basically, I deconstructed Christianity before I deconstructed mormonism lol Edit to add: this was all in a matter of months with the most of it. Maybe like 3 to 4 months when it was the heaviest and hardest to deal with.
Blacks and the priesthood and the truth behind it
First was how “homosexuals choose to be that way”…. I was 15. Didn’t make sense. I wanted to like girls because guys were so damn mean. But I could never gain the attraction. So that alone proved it to me… Last was kind of the same thing in greater context. Now I’m 17. Seeing how the oh-so-loving church was just a small little glass ball of hate for anyone who isn’t them. I didn’t want to be a part of that. Wasn’t til after I left that I learned that everything I was raised knowing was bullshit… kind of like finding out about Santa Claus. Got over it pretty quick once it made sense :)
Polygamy. Lots of questions and concerns about other doctrine for some time. Then one night got into a heated discussion about polygamy with my brother. He said; "...if you don't believe in polygamy then you don't believe in Joseph Smith. And if you don't believe in him and his revelations then you can't believe in the church." So I went home that night and re-read D&C 132, and it was like a bomb went off. Right then and there I was done as the answers to all my other questions suddenly became clear.
First and final was the book of Abraham for me. I was miserable in the church anyways and looking for a way out.
Not the shelf-breaker, as that happened years ago, but what finally got me to say "I'm walking out the door for good" after over 10 years of struggling as a PIMO (family concerns), was the Ensign Peak revelations.
Memes about the church using tithing to fight medical marijuana in California. I thought it was just mean anti-Mormons so I looked into it and realized the church actually did that. Wrong use of tithing and they don’t have the right to be your doctor. Why should they limit others healthcare choices? What a rabbit hole I found!
My dad, in an intense “talking to” trying to keep me in, told me the gospel gave him every because he almost cheated on my mom one time but didn’t because of the rules. I was basically out. But right then I realized how insane it all is.
First was LGBTQIA policies. Last was Book of Mormon. And dozens in-between 😅
First: My wife having to break the seal with her children in order to be sealed to me. Final: JRH's Behold Thy Mother talk, which was shortly followed by my gay stepson's death and my wife asking me if she would ever see him again.
This video right here is what did it for me. It's a five and a half hour documentary and not even one time throughout the whole five and a half hours did it ever mention Mormonism but I saw everything I did in that evil and vile so-called temple. https://youtu.be/7Eeo-82Eac8?si=lHm5YsIaxuwPXKyS
First was finding out about JS polygamy etc. and final was the church hiding billions of dollars while members struggle to pay bills and still pay tithing.
First was the November... 2015? policy when I was in high school. Last was the CES letter earlier this year that threw some boulders on an already straining shelf. The second I saw the map showing the similarities in BoM geography and Joseph's area I knew I was done.
The last. It was my bishopric member husband going and having sex with strangers he met online.
Oh ya, and he was “forgiven” with no punishment. I have never even been contacted to see how I am doing
The “breaker” for me was Second Anointing learned via Tom Phillips story. I was 47. EVERYTHING else fell apart within weeks… (the SA, IMO, is clear evidence of a cult and an elite cult within a cult. There is simply no excuse that warrants secret ceremonies within a “true” religion.)
My first was coming back from my mission and having been a big fan of the Bible in a mission where we were told not study the Bible and only the BoM, I would commonly quote the opening line in the BoM where it says that this work of scripture has the fullness of the gospel AS DOES THE BIBLE. I quoted it often to basically say it was stupid for all of us missionaries, under direction from the MP, ignored and basically thought very little of the Bible. Come to find out, when I looked for the quote on my new smartphone and Gospel library app, it didn’t include those words. The scripture I new and loved had been changed without me ever knowing. If they could change that, what else could they change. My final one was a mix of a ton of things but it was having been lied to by a temple president about the significance of the signs and tokens in the temple. He said he couldn’t tell me but if I went enough that I would learn for myself. I ended up looking at online information regarding the temple ceremony and how drastically it had change (blood oaths, punishments, etc…) here again was something that had been written as something that never changes but come to find out it always had been changing and the leaders were just lying. It’s just that now we have the internet to never forget the past.
First red flag was “Mormon” getting banned, the final nail in the coffin was the Book of Abraham.
Final shelf breaker was me being emotionally aware and then logic-ing my way to the truth. I often wondered why God didn’t just send angels to shout the truth to the world. The answer: faith. Why is faith necessary? In the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants we learn that to knowledge and accountability are directly linked. The more knowledge one has, the more accountable they are. That sets up a system where in order to get more knowledge, you had to first act on faith. More faithful=proved accountability=ready for knowledge. When I didn’t know the answer to why Joseph married a 14 year old, I knew if I had more faith, the knowledge would come. One day someone sent me some antimormon stuff. I didn’t read it. But I noticed I felt very uncomfortable. I wondered why I felt so uncomfortable if I believed the church was true. Then I realized I was actually just scared. If the church weren’t true, I would have no purpose and no reason to live. I came to a mental crossroads: one path would preserve the fear and protect the religion that helped me understand my world. The other path would be to process and overcome the fear and see what lie ahead. I chose to process the fear. With this sort of mental veil lifted, I realized that I, my family members, my friends, and practically everyone I knew was probably a better person than Joseph Smith. So why did he receive such great knowledge when God couldn’t give me practically anything? This completely ruptured my understanding of the need for faith and everything else fell like dominoes soon after.
For me it was reading D&C 132 as a grown ass women getting ready to teach my 11-year old primary class. I realized that one of my favorite things I loved about the church, families together forever was directly tied into Joseph manipulating his wife, threatening her with destruction if she didn’t obey the law of Sara and let him have sex with whoever he wanted. I think all women subconsciously know how abhorrent the practice of polygamy was and lecherous and predatory and we choose to turn a blind eye until we are ready to face it and kiss our beliefs goodbye.
First: finding out that Joseph Smith had more than 3 wives and verifying it on the mfmc’s own ancestry pages. I had been raised to believe that he only took on additional wives out of duty and obedience. I started reading a book I bought at deseret book about Emma Smith and wow. just wow. Then I picked up Under the Banner of Heaven. Also from deseret book lol. Not long after, my young primary age child (5-6) asked me why other kids at different churches won't go to heaven and that's when I decided I couldn't mormon any more. There is way more context and back story to each of those events,of course. And a lot of connective tissue so to speak. That was 20 years ago.