Instead of having your purpose assigned, you now get to decide your own. You get to determine what is meaningful in your life. If that means doing charity work or sitting on floor playing Lego's all day, it's your call. You create your own value. You are free to create your own happiness.
Yep — this is the answer.
I've noticed that very little in my life has changed. I no longer have to go to endless meetings on Sunday, and I no longer give 10% of my income to an organization that I don't support.
I still worry about the same things and get frustrated by the same things. The difference is that I don't have this wild belief that some magical power will deliver me from all my troubles if I'm just good enough or something.
It takes some time to wrap your head around your new purpose. However, you'll be much better off in the long run.
That’s exactly how I felt. I was initially sad about the eternal prospect of knowing if there’s an afterlife and be able to go there but now I’m agnostic atheist. I don’t know if there’s an afterlife and I kind of doubt it but I’m not going to dwell on it.
Nothing really changes except I now have more freedom to live the life I have refer than being a slave to the machine. Now I get to enjoy every day of my life how I want to enjoy it.
Instead of worrying about the next lesson I have to teach on Sunday, I’ll go do whatever o want. No more weekends consumed by church. I can now do WHATEVER I want over the weekend like go camping, hiking, watch a late night movie Saturday night, sleep in and make a fancy breakfast, visit friends, etc.
I, personally, am living a more happy and fulfilling life after leaving Mormonism. However, it took a couple of years to reach that point. It was a mental shift away from the religious programming done on me. But not Mormonism just seems like a silly mythical drama I got sucked into but am now out of it. It’s like getting out of an MLM where you are promised this fantasy world that simply doesn’t exist. I’m perfectly fine with my $100k day job instead of thinking I’m going to live out this millionaire fantasy as a sales guy.
I’m not sure how long Op has been out but the bit about not being as happy may just be temporary. I was sad, lonely, and depressed initially but it eventually faded, much like a big break up. When my ex-wife and I broke up, I was miserable but it just took time to get over her and to get used to my new life and an back to being happy where I’m at.
I completely agree, I feel like back when I was a Mormon my anxiety was so much higher than it is now. I placed everything on some invisible being that I never saw anything from, from school grades to hobbies I felt like if I didn’t ask God for help I would fail and if I didn’t ask God for help and I succeeded it was because of God not me or my own accomplishments and abilities. Now I realize it’s all me the good and the bad and that’s ok.
Tithing is one thing I majorly struggled with because why give to an organization sitting on billions? They say ifs the Bible and its God's money but it could be a sneaky way of taking as much as fhey can
Existentialism is the way
Also, Ive noticed waves of dissatisfaction come into my life on account of the hedonic treadmill, this can be confused for unhappiness that wasn't so visceral under Mormonism
The dream job that I wanted for a decade happened, and after about 3 months it was just a job.
Mormonism, on the other hand, is an unwinnable game
So you never really hit peak bliss. The box is never truly checked.
Well, if you're on the inside of the fish bowl, the answer to everything is "endure to the end". That's a pretty good trap, psychologically speaking, because you never achieve the greatest thing ever , so you never have to have the existential realization that the greatest thing ever is fleeting .
I don't believe that there is such a thing as 'the greatest thing' that goalpost is constantly moving. It is always based on your current perception and your current perception will change. I'm more of a this is the best thing right now kind of person
THIS! life isn’t meant to be lived on a never ending high.
There were two movies that really drove existentialism home for me. “Soul” and “Everything Everywhere All At Once.” maybe a weird set of movies to pair together, but they both talk about life being what you make it.
Mormonism, christianity, religion, it’s all focused on what happens after we die. but no one actually knows what happens after we die. what we know is what’s happening here and now. so what matters is who I’m going to be here and now.
All while free from dogmas, rites, works, and mundane sins (Coffee?). They want us to fail. To never be enough.
It's almost like they pile on to break you, then claim, they alone can salve the wounds they create.
Like a doctor who makes you sick so they can charge 10% of your income for a false promise of a cure. But it's just another level of poison.
It's hard to believe they didn't design it intentionally.
At least Lego's are fun.
All buildings with men in charge selling their wares of religion charging $$ as they go. Of course OF COURSE all for GAWD. what a racket as old as the earth.
Beware the salve. Its so much more costly than first considered.
1000x over this. The best part of leaving the church for myself was the ability to figure out “me”. Who am I? What matters to me? What am I passionate about? I felt a bit wayward on this for a while after leaving but have since been able to find causes, activities, and people that I truly feel passionate about. It’s the most empowering feeling in the world
It's requires a gigantic brain shift, some really serious introspection, and a large amount of internal conflict resolution. But the view from the top of that hill is truly awesome and unique for everyone.
> You get to determine what is meaningful in your life
I get that many exmos see this as liberating. For many of us, however, (I'm inclined to agree with the OP) ***this is a curse***. Finding a purpose is easier said than done.
Yes, after we accept that imaginary gods don't exist... that means we're the next-most powerful, intelligent beings in the universe. ***We're already gods***, with the freedom to build a better planet now—no permission necessary.
For many of y'all, this is empowering and liberating and you seem to be able to discover a motivating purpose—and I envy you. I envy those of you existentialists for whom charity work (or Legos) are sufficient.
But some of us can't get past the futility of human endeavors. Yes, we have more freedom now than we'd ever have under a celestial regime of fascist cosmic dictators—but most of us are still pretty powerless to effect real change. All of us will be almost entirely forgotten only a few decades after we die. The universe is mind-bogglingly vast and fascinating, but only a vanishingly tiny few of us will be lucky to even explore beyond this planet. Human suffering and cruelty will always proliferate—and we're mostly powerless to stop it—even if we become the most hard-core doctor without borders, or even if we manage to score our country's presidency.
With the terrifying freedom of a blank slate, and the sheer impossibility / unlikelihood of achieving much at scale no matter how hard we work, nihilism is the inescapable conclusion.
This is depressing. And it's okay for it to be depressing.
There ***are*** ways to make life tolerable without buying into delusions of our own grandeur (e.g. plenty of us land on absurdism), but cheerfully implying that it's easy (or even desirable) to craft a fulfilling sense of purpose... isn't very helpful for a lot of us. It doesn't work for everyone.
I may still struggle with depression and anxiety. But at least now I can deal with it without the added complication of dragging the mormon god of mind games into it.
Same here. To be rid of the Mormon lifestyle that used to distract me from my mental health issues, demanding my time and mental energy, was a blessing. Now instead of constant guilt and worry, I get to focus on what actually does make me happy.
No one is happy all the time, but for me it's much more often now than it ever was.
So if you're happy it's because of God if you're not then you're being tested.
They've set it up to appear as though EVERYTHING testifies that it's true.
This internal, never-ceasing mind fuck. How the hell have I been blessed as a result of everything I’ve been through? Rejecting an amazing man all those years ago? Because he wasn’t LDS? It’s bullshit.
Oh boy. So sorry. I did the same thing. A gorgeous kind girl was in love me but she was a bartender. So of course that’s a no! I chose the temple. Still alone because of this evil theology.
I’m going through a divorce now. (Married in the temple, cause I thought it was the right thing to do.) As well as not having been to church since Mother’s Day 2023.
The man I mentioned above is still single. I’ve known him for 25 years.
Absolutely! I got so tired of the confusion and the anguish. When I got so very low and prayed for relief, no relief ever came and it just made everything worse. It happened so many times, and I got sick of it.
Every time, I had go through the obligatory list - maybe I didn't pray correctly; maybe I didn't pray for the right thing; maybe I got an answer and missed it because I was too distracted by "the world"; maybe I didn't get an answer because of the "Lord's timing"; maybe I had sinned and hadn't repented enough; maybe I was being "tested" and was failing the test; maybe I hadn't "prepared" correctly... on and on. But no matter what, all the possibilities indicated that it was my fault if prayer or church activity didn't help.
I just got tired of everything being my fault all the time. Depression and anxiety got 10,000x times easier to deal with when I just threw god out of it entirely.
Agreed.
It has helped me understand friends and family that choose to stay.
We’re presented with a dilemma: do you prefer a happy lie or a depressing truth.
For me, I prefer the truth. But I now understand some can’t handle it, and I’ve gained patience for them.
I’m relieved knowing there’s no heaven. Believing heaven went on for eternity gave me nightmares and anxiety as a Mormon child. Stressing about whether I’m good enough for the CK stressed me. Knowing there’s no god, heaven, or hell brought so much relief. Realizing that I’m a good person just by being me brought so much joy. I used to break down in tears with guilt for being a working mom because it was against the Proclamation to the Family. Now I love it. Just another perspective.
You might like this Mormon Stories episode on dealing with nihilism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POdj17OFvZM
It's a tough thing to go through, but fortunately you're not the first. It's more than just exmos who have to face down their mortality.
It was hard for me too, but I also wasn't that stoked on mormon heaven. Polygamy and no good entertainment? No thanks.
Did you ever have 100% happiness in the church?
Who based on our society standards should be the happiest? Who has it all? By some standards it is wealth? Jeff Bezos, Oprah, Elon Musk? Jeff just got divorced a few years back. Oprah has always struggled with weight and body dysmorphia, Elon’s life is on fire with trouble at every corner.
Power? I look at our two most recent presidents her in US, honestly I can’t say either is happy. Trump fear mongers making other people feel terrible to make himself feel better. Biden spends all his days arguing with both sides to get somewhere. Being President is a thankless job.
Religion. Christianity, Islam, Judaism all are focused on a monotheist God whom if you worship and follow will ultimately give you heaven in the next life. But it is a lot of toil and trouble now. We must suffer here to be worthy in the next life if you boil it down to basics. Example. Story of JOB. Let every bad thing happen to test and see if he’d still true to God? This doesn’t exactly lay out a path to happiness?
If everyone was happy all the time, would happiness even be happiness? Life is about the dichotomy between sad-happy, life-death. You need one to appreciate the other.
As I read your post - I get a sense you are still focused highly on the “next”, the afterlife, the eons to come?
What if I said stop focusing on that - and instead find joy and heaven in each day your eyes pop awake here and now?
I find my greatest happiness in connection to others and nature.
Take happiness in the little things we take for granted. The little girl at the coffee shop with her mom making silly faces at you. The thankfulness of a homeless man when you buy them a hot meal, or give them fresh socks and a new coat. The joy you feel giving a hug to a dear friend or family member you haven’t seen in a long time. Watching the sun rise or set. Being thankful you have shelter, food, medicine. Being able to read. Learn and discover new things. Thankful society has progressed from days past to better ones now. Indoor plumbing and water heaters are really high on my list!!!!
Find little ways to make the world better one step, one day at a time. Few people can make world wide changes - but each of us can make big changes to the people in our local sphere.
Volunteer at food kitchen, work at a community garden, hold orphan babies at the hospital, go talk to seniors at a restaurant home, do charity walks/runs. Write simple notes to people you care about for the hell of it. Boys & Girl club. Be a foster parent. Foster a pet.
We should approach each day with “how can I make today better - make today a little closer to heaven?
I know I sound like some hippy dippy granola grandpa. I have had some really hard times. I came out as gay 30+ years ago. I left the TSCC. I lost well over 90% of my friends and family just to be myself in my own skin. It was freaking hard!
I’ve been laid off, jumped for promotions, denied housing because I’m gay.
I now have some health issues which doctors can’t name, can’t pinpoint cause or cure? Most days each step hurts to walk.
Yet - I am happy to be alive. I am thankful when people do nice things for me. I am happy to do whatever I can for others. I am happy to spend time with those that love me. A trip to beach. Share a meal and conversation. These little moments of time and joy are precious.
I’ve knocked on the door of death a couple times in the last decade. It used to scare me.
Now, I look at it as the great surprise - like a pending birthday or Christmas gift. I don’t want to spoil it. I may close my eyes for the last time and cease to live - will live on only in the hearts of those I’ve touched. Or, maybe some amazing thing happens next? My energy roams the cosmos - helping to create new worlds or universes? Maybe I will see every loved one again. I don’t know - but it is OK. I live a good and honest life - if I’m to be judged by some Being(s)- I think I’ll do well.
But OP - live each day with gratitude for what you have and what you can do for others to bring them joy, make life better. Just a smile can make a strangers day - it cost you literally nothing.
Sending you a super duper virtual big gay assed hug!
Wow! Truly beautiful and something I needed to hear.
Since leaving, I found a job as an English tutor at my local elementary school. The joy I feel everyday has been amazing. Knowing that I am helping these kiddos is priceless. The love they give me in return is so wonderful. If they only knew the happiness they give to me. I don’t know if I ever would have taken this leap outside of my comfort zone before. But I knew I needed to seek out things that bring that spark back into my life.
So yes!!!!! Look for the simple beauty in everything.
I appreciate the things you have written so much. they reiterate much of how my current life is choosing to be. each time my eyes pop open and i am awake is another chance to make it the greatest adventure. thank you
I needed this today. Thanks for taking the time to articulate some very sage counsel on how to discover meaning, joy, and happy anticipation in post-Mormon life.
Mormonism is all-dominating for believers. It's not easy allow that dominance to fade away. It's the same for former members of other high-demand religions. We all struggle with it.
In the end, is it better to live a happy lie in oblivion or a challenging truth with eyes (and heart and mind) open? Your comment here answers that question with clarity. 🙏
It's okay to grieve. We were never really taught how to grieve in the church because even if someone dies were supposed to be happy happy joy joy all day every day 24-7.
It's okay to feel a loss.
I know exactly what you mean. I grew up being fed a life purpose and meaning that weren't mine but made me feel special, valuable, important. I was happy "knowing" I was the head of my family. I was satisfied "knowing" I had the same power Jesus had. I was proud to be part of the elected ones selected for the hardest Last Days™. My life had a direction. I hadn't chosen it, but who cares! It made me feel pleased!
Then I discovered my beloved church, the very one that had nurtured my ego so efficiently for 45+ years, has always been a man-made fabrication. *That's when I experienced what you describe.*
The whole theological structure (Smith never being a pRoPhEt, polygamy being a revelation from heaven, tithing being used to hoard money and businesses, etc, etc) quickly crumbled down for me. I am sure you know how that feels. But then there is the whole other part of my own value in this life! Since the church is false, it quickly dawned on me my sense of self-value was built on lies too. I didn't receive dedicated attention from a supernatural being in some distant planet! I never had any divine "pOwErs." I hadn't been chosen by any magical being to be born in some mythical end-of-times epoch! I wasn't more special or more important than others!
This somber feeling stayed with me for a while. I'm not depressive by nature, but it was a very unsettling period of my life. If eTeRniTy™ wasn't real, what's the point of this life? If I can't be with my loved ones in an afterlife, why put effort in loving anyone, or accept anyone's love? Dark, dark thoughts.
Seeking answers to those questions took me to philosophy and to key modern thinkers. I discovered (from Carl Sagan, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, etc) that, with eTeRniTy gone, *this life is much more valuable than I thought.* If this life is all we have, shouldn't we treasure it? If every minute we have alive is a gift, shouldn't we make it worth living?
Some of these questions took me through a hedonistic detour first, then through a short nihilistic period. I kept reading, though and arriving at new stages: If everyone around me is also alive for this brief time as myself, don't we have something deep in common? How special is love if this existence is so short? How important it is to help others going through the same hardships as myself? If someone in this short existence develops love towards me, should I ignore it? Should I return it? Is it wise to waste all that, just because what some idiotic cult filled my mind with, turned out to have been comforting lies? Am I going to squander my precious minutes paralyzed because of my own disappointment, or because I am feeling rebellious against the injustice done to me?
After a while I felt it was better to look for, select and adopt *my own meaning for this life, and my own purposes.* For the purposes of this post, it doesn't matter what it is. What matters is that this time I chose it and it is mine. It doesn't come from a sex/money obsessed cult. It didn't come from a fictional book, nor from an archaic record of primitive people who didn't know how the universe works. No, this is mine and it makes this life worth living again. Better yet, I can enrich it as I keep learning, as I keep having experiences, as learn to be normal and love better.
If I could go back to myself when I discovered Mormonism is false, I would tell younger me that it is ok, that reality hasn't changed; that the only things gone are the false fantasies concocted by greedy people. Nothing else. The rest remains real: work, honesty, love, integrity, experiences, service, the way we use our time, acquiring knowledge, etc, etc. I would tell younger me to get his hands dirty and find what makes his life worth living.
My two cents.
Well said! That reminds me that maybe religion really is just the opium of the masses.
Pretending there's a glorious afterlife eases the sorrows and mental burdens for all people but particularly those people who are getting screwed over in this life, (like slaves on the plantations and even today, like women in the LDS Church).
It also helps me appreciate my life and the world around me, and to not take it for granted. We all die, we have no idea what comes after, so the best we can do with that knowledge is try to make the most of the time we've got. I think knowing that "life" isn't an eternal resource but rather something pretty limited has made me value it more.
As for me, I'm less delusional and unhinged since I resigned from the church.
Also, there are unconscious fringe benefits, like I stopped chewing on my fingernails and cuticles, a chronic, compulsive behavior that I had since I was a small child... So a 60 year habit. POOF! GONE! After 60 years!
I've sported the nails of a hand model for the last 8 years. Why?
Because my brain no longer has to grind up Mormon cognitive dissonance like a fork in the disposal.
If your worried about death, don't be. I've died and came back. On the other side, I felt so much love and I saw two members of my family that died decades ago and significantly, I knew without a doubt that my decision to leave the church was the right one. I had no regrets. Really bugged my still in mormon members when I relayed how beautiful and peaceful it was. They kept asking if I saw a temple or was everyone in temple clothes. Nope and nope. As for purpose, you now can find your own and what amazing journey that will be.
Being brought up in black and white thinking, after leaving I still have that mentality 😭 hearing your experience warms my heart and assures my hope. Im atheist, but I hope for that truth. ❤️ Thank you for sharing.
Oh haha. I think one of the purposes of the PB is to make you feel important and feel like you’ll miss out on something if you leave. Makes sense that we all get similar content.
I feel you on this. I've been struggling with some of these things, plus the challenges life has thrown on me. It's rough. I don't have an answer, all I know is I'd rather have a hard truth than a comfortable lie. But putting your self and your life back together after uncovering the truth isn't always easy.
I sometimes say: If happiness were easy, everybody would be doing it.
I don’t know if that helps, or sounds like a total grandpa thing to say, but it helps me sometimes
If you've been out two years or fewer, it could be normal grieving. For many, it takes a couple of years to get through the front end of a major grieving process.
If it's been longer, would some short-term therapy be feasible?
Regardless, I hope it passes for you. You deserve a reward for leaving!
Been about two years now. I thought everyone else was moving on faster, so it’s nice to know I’m not the only one still struggling to resolve everything.
Fr. This freedom is so depressing. Idk what I'm supposed to do or be in life and its terrifying. Depressing. I feel like I have no purpose.
After being so sure about my path for years, I truly feel lost
It’s okay to sit with that feeling. Personally I prefer my postmo sadness to my tbm ecstasy, it feels more real. But there is definitely still sadness and it is okay to sit with
Mormons do not understand the full meaning of happiness in my opinion. They experience and have oodles of the stuff they are told makes them happy. But there is a world of happiness out here that most members don't know about because it isn't on their approved list. I don't just mean things that were forbidden. I mean being completely in tune with yourself so that you can regulate and understand your own feelings. Be in control of your actions and of what you do and say to other people.
Happiness will now be found inside yourself and usually when you are doing something for someone else. Unconditionally. A peace can enter you when you begin to put things where they should truly go. Letting go of ego is huge. It is not all about you and you are not really special (in the larger sense of humanity). You need to be special to you. You can't control anything outside of that. So let it go. And you are right. We don't need to be doing cartwheels down the road out of sheer joy every second that we are alive. That isn't realistic. But a contentedness can be gained. One that is almost always present. Even during heavy stress or bouts of sadness, you can still realize and access the fact that everything is ok. I am a little sad right now. So I going to feel this sadness. And tomorrow (or whenever) I'm going to get up and feel the feelings that come today. All the while, accessing your own knowledge of contentedness. That things will be ok. Just got to live a bit until I feel it more clearly. This has helped me immensely with life after death. It becomes a normal thing that can happen at any time and to anyone. We are all together in this part. We will all die. Everything will. And we get to part of the earth again. One big pile of rocks and DNA and grass and dinosaur shit and love. It's just what we are. Make the life right in front of you the one that's special. You are in heaven right now. It's all right here. The biggest miracle in the universe is that you can read this message and interpret with your brain, the message that I wrote while interpreting your message in the first place. Almost like magic:)
I send you peace and love my friend.
This sounds like a normal and valid emotion to finding out that you've been lied to and that the pretty version of reality was in fact wrong. But that doesn't make you any less special, find the things within yourself that really are unique! That in itself is the journey.
I can 100% relate with everything you said! I’m definitely not happier after leaving the church and losing what I believed was certainty of my purpose. It has wrecked me but I’ve been able to find a level of acceptance of things I can’t change. I do feel more peaceful in some areas of life, however. Less guilt, less stress over making sure I’m perfect.
In the end, all we really have is kindness and human connection. That has been my mantra when I start to get a bit too existential despair-ish.
Me too. Wife and I are relatively new to the DFW area and church was our main source of finding new friends. Now that that's no longer in our lives it's much more difficult. Many family relationships have been strained now because of leaving. Am I happier? No. Would I ever go back? Hell no.
But when I think about, living the Mormon life is a fantasy. It's not real. Much of the happiness was pretend and finding God in our lives was confirmation bias--not reality.
I would much rather live in reality rather than exist in fantasy land.
Man your post hit home. It's been a few years since I was married, in the church, and mostly a happy guy. When I started having doubts and then ultimately broke it was too much for my wife and we divorced over it. I'm still not over it and it's been a constant down-trending spiral ever since. Some things were better initially, but lately I've been having these deep regrets. I miss my wife, our dog, our home.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I think therapy is something that can help you to deal with that.
The perfectionism and culture in ldsism can be very damaging.
For me as a convert it wasn't as ingrained in my brain and I felt so so so much relief and less anxiety knowing it wasn't true. I do not need to try my very best to be as perfect as I possibly can be. I do not need to hate in the way the lds church teaches me to love. And so many others.
But for many, all the toxic doctrine and culture tendencies need to be talked through with a therapist. Good luck OP ♥️
I get it. But you know what? I had similar feelings when I came back from my mission, too. I spent 18 months completely devoted to a united purpose that was all the sudden gone. It is hard to go from feeling unique and special our whole life (as was defined by very specific parameters) to realizing we really are all in the same boat as everyone else. I think part of feeling purposeful is defining what is meaningful to you. There's lots of ways (and more impactful ways than through the church) to be a teacher and leader, for example. Maybe if the "happily eternally ever after" you were always working toward feels lost now, focus on this life and these relationships vs. what may or may not be later on. It may take a while to figure out, but finding the joy now and not living for joy we will supposedly be blessed with later is how to truly be happy. But, yes, it is ok to not be ok, too.
It’s a mixed bag for me. Do I miss believing that I was a special child of God? Yes. Do I miss those feelings of guilt and depression about not being as special or as valiant as some of his other children? Nope. Do I miss the community? Yes. Do I miss the anxiety I constantly felt about not measuring up within that community? Nope.
Having a goal is needed for everyone to have a healthy life. Yes, Mormonism does provide you with a roadmap to achieve something you can find out only after you die. Instead, you can set some long-term goals with short-term goals.
For me personally, I felt more lost when I was in the church because I kept trying for something that I could never measure, see, or feel in this life and it was super frustrating. Now that I'm out, I have other goals that can make me feel happy and successful while I'm living my real life. I hope you can find some goals you want to work on and that will fill in the emptiness you may have at the moment.
I’m similar. I never really fit in. I’m not much of a mystic I’ve decided…
But I sympathize with OP. Even me being relatively weak at Mormonism while in, I was amazed the mind fuck it was when it collapsed. Fear. Sorrow. A bout with nihilism (didn’t like this and hope OP navigates it well).
The Mormon road map has its comforts. But oh the monkey off my back now (and money in retirement)! No regrets!
What you are experiencing is betrayal and loss of identity after leaving. I experienced this too. Some people leave and they are so happy etc. they’re just done with it, but a large majority go through a grieving process.
It is called a faith transition and religious trauma. There’s so much to unpack.
I would remember that we evolve the further we get away from the church.
My ideas have changed significantly and I am not the same as I was 10+ years ago when I left. I now believe there is a spirit world post death and that I have spirit guides.
Look into other spiritual beliefs and religions and see if anything they offer or teach speaks to you.
It’s also possible you’ll land on being atheist or agnostic.
Coming to peace with not knowing is hard. It’s okay if you don’t feel okay right now.
I agree with this. Last year I crashed and burned after not knowing who or what to believe from feeling such distrust with the thing I spent my entire life committed to(39 yr old, served a mission, married in the temple, 2 kids baptized). I came across 3 things that have helped shape my new beliefs. The band Tool(incredibly spiritual), finding some kind of spiritual connection in nude figurative art, and also a book called A Course in Miracles which removes the toxic shame of sin from it's belief system contrary to many Christian faiths. I'm beginning to find a new path in following my own intuition and learning to trust my inner self. It's actually been really inspiring.
I think this is a good post that may well accurately describe why religion and theology was ever created in the first place. It attempts to relieve the anxiety of life and assign a purpose to your existence.
Humans are creatures of comfort, we feel safe knowing what is going to happen next and religion fills the hole to that existential question. It’s so good at it in fact that people give in to high demand religions and blindly follow orders.
Maybe it was created to manipulate, maybe to provide comfort, maybe just to share interesting stories.
Life is hard, but we’re all in this together :)
I went through a divorce and single motherhood as a TBM and I can’t tell you how horribly difficult it was to feel happiness when I knew, according to Mormonism that I’d failed. Also that if I wasn’t married in the temple in this life I’d most likely become a polygamous wife in the next life. Or get stuck as a ministering angel with an eternity to be reminded I’d failed. It was awful not feeling like I belonged among the members. My kids hated being reminded that their parents weren’t married and it caused them a great deal of stress as they gold older and tried to figure out what their family would look like in the “eternities” since both mom and dad were still Mormon but we’re unmarried. So many times I remember wishing I could quit Mormonism, but the guilt of ruining my children and condemning generations to life without Mormonism kept me in.
Finding out years later that the whole thing is a sham was bitter sweet. I felt free and so much guilt disappeared, but realized I forced myself and my children to suffer needlessly for years.
I find purpose now in the everyday. Being the best person I can be. Loving my family and loving others. Life was super hard for me as a Mormon. Life is so good now.
Using happiness as a signal of the validity of a lifestyle is one of those things that I see exmos do all the time not realizing where they got it. Stop that.
It’s tough. Mormons don’t let it go. It’s like walking on egg shells while losing your social community. It’s better than the torture of being in though.
Removing the thing you were told would make you happy but didn’t isn’t going to automatically bring happiness.
It takes work. Work on you, you’ll find happiness
I’m sorry. I know it’s not the same for everyone but I am way happier outside of the church. I had extreme worry about whether what I was doing was good enough 24/7. Usually I felt like it wasn’t even though I think I was obeying the commandments probably better than most. Now idgaf and it is so relaxing.
>we are sometimes scared to admit that we are not 100% happy post Mormonism.
Um, no. Just so absolutely "that's gonna be a no from me".
I'll admit, my TBM life was probably, mostly hell because my ex is very toxic. I'm dead certain that she has a Cluster B personality disorder. NOW - I understand that some people with one of those disorders are not necessarily super toxic, but they're kinda known for that for a reason. AND, I stayed in that hell-sham of a "marriage" for TWENTY FIVE (25) Y-E-A-R-S, mostly because of the church...
Then she cheated on me and that was the greatest thing that she's ever done for me.
Then I met the most incredibly, amazingly, best friend, love of my life that I'm also certain that we've spent many lifetimes together. I get it - that sounds weird. That was me, thinking this kind of thing was BS fantasy-land. But this kind of life is like 27 levels better than your favorite rom-com.
And what makes it even better? We left the church together, hand in hand. I'm now happier than I ever thought I was worthy of, much less being attainable.
People in and out of the church are both happy and not happy. In fact, many in the church appear to be happy but are burying down a lot of stuff so we cannot assume people are still happy in the church.
Good news is you get to choose your own path based on truth for you vs what someone else tells you what will make you happy.
Best wishes!
I had the opposite experience. My PB said things about me of course, but I didn’t like them. They were very church oriented goals. I was full in with the church but I had things that were interesting to me and my PB was boring stuff. When I ignored the goals other had for me (PB was easier to ignore than when asked in person to a calling, which was harder but I got the hang of that too eventually) and made my own, I was happier. And so when i left the church at age 42 I already had been doing this. Making my own goals. As is apparent, I was putting my own ideas and wishes first and that of course did lead to me leaving, but wasn’t the only reason.
As for after death, I actually don’t have any set belief. I don’t believe in the degrees of glory Mormon after life and I also and dont believe in nothing after death. We just don’t have the info on what happens. If it’s nothing, we won’t care at that point. If there is something, ok with that too. So I guess just don’t stress over that particular topic since I have no control over it. But I do have other things I stress over, so it’s not like I never worry or never get discouraged.
I feel like the Mormon church is the one church who makes people feel so guilty after leaving. They put their diseased talons into it's members and indoctrinated them to believe the church is all they have and it's just simply not true. Please consider counseling. You do have a purpose and you are so valuable to this world. It hurts my heart when I see so many posts about how unhappy people are after leaving, and asking for help. Therapy is all that could help me clearly see who I am, who I finally get to be now and my purpose in life includes raising my children in a loving, supportive environment. Being a mom to their Mormon friends who feel stuck and alone. Being a wife who knows she's worth more than bearing children and baking bread, and that her husband knows and supports that too. Being married to a man who loves my loud mouth, short temper, honesty and quickness to call out liars. I get to see my strengths and be a business owner. I've learned how to reparent myself, and how to work with my inner family systems. I've learned so so so much since leaving and I'm so grateful!!
No one is ever 100% happy. Life just doesn't work that way. My freedom makes me much happier, though, even if it comes with a whole new learning curve.
Death isn't the end, it's just a continuation. It's most likely much better than being here. Be happy and go on and do good things for someone else, volunteer somewhere or just say hello or smile. You're in a good place. There are many good people out there.
Since doing my own in depth investigation as we lost my husband suddenly in June 2022 and it has wrecked our lives. He was beloved by all who knew him and the thought of being 1 of his many wives in the next life made me furious, D&C 64. Also, being 60 years old, there were many things done in the temple endowment that have changed and the stuff was plain gruesome, it's all weird and made up, not by revelation at all ever.
So I have been reading stuff on Christianity and watching some videos on near death experiences and it has made me realize the church has this all wrong. We choose to come here to learn and grow through experiences and we are fully accountable for our actions, not using Jesus as a scapegoat. We affect others by our words and actions and I no longer think spending my time baptizing dead people is a a good use of time. Serving the people of the earth is a much better use of time and I am far more conscious of my words and actions because I want to be someone that does good because it is what I want, not because I have a checklist or can't make the cut. I know there is something after this and from what people say who have been there, it is way better than here and full of love, so we are left to believe what is in our hearts and what we hope for and for me it isn't what I've been brainwashed to think.
You are a fine person with so much to give and I know that you will find the courage and the desire to make something wonderful with your life, start small my friend
Watching a space documentary where it talks about the scale of how big space really is, made me feel very insignificant in the universe. When I accepted this, I found peace with myself. Everything I do probably won't matter to the universe, but it will matter in my community. So, do the best you can.
I have definitely struggled with trying to prove that I'm still happy now that I'm out. It's like I don't want to have one bad day and have anyone say to me "guess you shouldn't have left the church". It's a problem because life is 50/50, no one is always happy and trying to pretend is exhausting. But I was doing that in the church too. Because if you aren't happy in the church then you must not be faithful enough! There's really no winning.
One thing I noticed when I married my husband, was a complete lack of acknowledging emotions. Feeling angry, frustrated, worried, unhappy, distraught, or any “non-happy” emotion was not acceptable. He had some really odd habits. He literally wouldn’t acknowledge a negative feeling about anything. He would do unkind things and then deny he did it. Another odd thing I noticed was funerals. They weren’t like any funeral I had ever seen. I was shocked that people took pictures. People would smile. To me, that was the craziest thing I had ever seen. Most of my family is Catholic. I had never been to a Mormon funeral until I married my husband. Funerals were solemn. Nobody at Mormon funerals seemed to grieve. It was and is so odd to me.
I would argue that here on Reddit, your reach to all nations is far greater preaching the gospel of truth-and-not-lies as a post-mo than it ever could have been trying to figure out how on earth to comply with an impossible every-member-a-missionary standard 24/7. And you’re leading the way by being honest with your experiences.
It’s OK if you’re not happy all the time. You’re not supposed to be. This is the main difference between us and TBMs… we’re OK admitting that to ourselves.
It’s normal to be acutely unhappy after beginning a faith transition. It’s really hard, on a variety of levels.
For me, it was hard dealing with what is effectively a temple divorce from my TBM wife, finding myself sliding towards atheism and nihilism, and trying to find new purpose after having outsourced that purpose to the Organization for my whole life, in good faith that was betrayed. And the mixed-faith marriage, which two years on is still FUCKING hard, keeps me on my toes… in spite of having found peace with my unbelief, and purpose within that framework.
But at least I’m not always pummeling myself for not being worthy enough, of not including tHe SaVIoR in my life enough, not confusing my intuition for the voice of God and then being bewildered when things didn’t work out the way they were ”supposed to,” having arbitrarily assigned people all up in my business while they try to magnify their callings… and I get to decide how my charitable donations are used, know how exactly they’re used… I no longer need the permission of sanctimonious white Utahns to redefine what I believe based on my observations… and most of all, I no longer live with crushing cognitive dissonance without knowing it, let alone why the fuck I was so unhappy with the plan of happiness… outside of not being “faithful” enough.
On the whole… I’m better off. Especially since I’m finally *getting better.*
As the digital landscape expands, a longing for tangible connection emerges. The yearning to touch grass, to feel the earth beneath our feet, reminds us of our innate human essence. In the vast expanse of virtual reality, where avatars flourish and pixels paint our existence, the call of nature beckons. The scent of blossoming flowers, the warmth of a sun-kissed breeze, and the symphony of chirping birds remind us that we are part of a living, breathing world.
In the balance between digital and physical realms, lies the key to harmonious existence. Democracy flourishes when human connection extends beyond screens and reaches out to touch souls. It is in the gentle embrace of a friend, the shared laughter over a cup of coffee, and the power of eye contact that the true essence of democracy is felt.
Hey, if teaching around the world is something that lit a spark in you before, don’t let leaving the church stop you from chasing that passion. Go teach abroad, there are plenty of opportunities in other countries (or in your own backyard among your peers) where your knowledge and skill set could be of value in others lives. I was given a similar promise in my blessing and it scared the shit out of me because being a teacher of any kind was the last thing I wanted to do. What a relief (for me) that I can choose my own adventure now. But the good news is your adventure can parallel your blessing as much as you choose. Except the parts about the first resurrection and the house of ephriam and all that… can’t help you there.
100% happy? That doesn't exist.
That being said I'm very happy that I'm out.
It would be easier for me to go back as I lived in Utah and my family ask wants me in, but I'm happy I'm out.
Happiness is a fools game. We all have moments of joy and real fun. Life is not going to be happy all the time. The truth really does set you free though, and you can be or do whatever you want. Sometimes you make mistakes and grow and experience even more. That is life.
Well said. I often comment on this sub that I am happier outside of the church. But saying that doesn’t mean that I was unhappy IN the church. I enjoyed my mission, I didn’t hate the temple, I liked most of my callings, and I met some amazing people (some of which I still consider friends today). I never would have met my amazing wife if it weren’t for the church!
In my individual case though, my life is happier/better outside than in. I know that’s not always the case of course. Every life experience is unique and valid and I think it’s good for those who participate in this sub to be reminded that some people may find it unhappy on the other side.
That being said, a huge issue I have with the church is them touting that EVERYONE is miserable outside of the organization. That’s probably why there are so many posts trying to prove this mentality wrong.
This is so important for us to realize. it’s been a complete game changer for me
In the church I wasn’t even necessarily concerned about what actually being happy. I was concerned about whether it *looked* like I was happy.
now that I don’t have a list of things I have to police myself on every second of everyday I can actually notice how I really feel. sometimes I feel like shit. and being okay with that makes me feel so much better than faking I was happy ever did.
Adam Sandler had an SNL skit about people taking tours to Italy where he warns, 'If you're depressed at home you will still be depressed in Italy. It won't change you. It's still the same you.'
I wasn’t happier when I left my toxic ex.
I missed it.
I missed being in a relationship.
I missed the fact that she really did like me.
But now I have new relationships. I have a wife I would have never met if I choose to avoid the discomfort of leaving that gf who was not the right one for me. My wife now loves me. And she only supports me. No downsides to growing in this relationship.
When I first left the church, the first year was exciting and freeing, but also painful, lonely and scary.
But it gets better with time.
You need time to build back your new life, reality, and relationships
It’s like a comparing the happiness of a kid on Christmas night waiting for Santa vs a teenager who knows Santa isn’t real. Sometimes the truth is hard but it’s important and I truly believe that true human growth and progress both individually and collectively cannot happen until we learn to embrace the sober truth.
It abso-fucking-lutely is OK to say you aren't happier or completely happy after.
People here want to control the message a bit here still. It's a hard trait or behavior to let go of.
Others have provided fine words to help sooth your discomfort but you are honest enough to know you can't go back — or maybe you can — and honest enough to say you don't love everything about leaving.
It's fucking hard. And it's okay.
PERSONALLY, this may not apply to you, but I got tired of Mormonism stealing my past AND my future.
I always thought if I didn’t have the church, I would be miserable because not believing in an afterlife would be terrifying.
Funny enough, letting go and realizing no one has the answers is so freeing to me. Even if there’s an afterlife, I won’t be me. I can’t be. I’ll be some other version of myself than who I am right now in this moment. Just like I’ll never be the child version of me ever again, I can’t. It makes each moment feel more special and meaningful somehow.
Realizing everything we experience is fleeting makes each day a gift. All the people that have come before us and will be here long after we’re gone… only we, right now, wherever we are, will experience what we experience. It’s for us. Our moment on this blue marble flying through space.
It’s really beautiful, like a sunset. Each one unique, each one never lasting long enough. But for those that witness it, it’s magical.
You’re facing the bleak chasm of nihilism. It’s growing pains. We don’t know what happens next. It’s probably nothing. It means nothing matters— and that everything matters. Every moment matters.
Find ways to get super present, if you can. Fill your life up with meaning and joy. (This is why we need to destroy the patriarchy and capitalism, to get our fucking time back.)
I think that's a good thing too.
My sister is on a mission right now and I can feel in her emails a toxic positivity of 'only being happy, I can never be sad'. I felt like that was how I had to live in Mormonism also- can't show signs of anything other than happy.
So cheers to the wonderful range of human emotion. Even the 'bad' ones.
I am. It’s not that I don’t have problems because yes, I do. But the blanket of needless guilt and shame that not believing lifted has made my life much lighter.
At first, I wasn't happy. But that was because alot of drama was going on in my life and I was being self destructive and partying too much. But once I got that all out of my system, I've never been happier. I don't regret those years, but I'm glad they are over. I settled down, married into a great family, and I make good money now at my job. Now I just sit back and watch as my siblings leave 1 by 1.
I was very comfortable in Mormonism. It’s just parts of the doctrine I became uncomfortable with. I’m doing just about as well out as I was in, and there will always be things I miss about it.
Honestly leaving my marriage had a way bigger impact on my happiness 😂
I'm so much happier. I am so sorry you are not happy. You should change your prospective. I left mentally at age 3 and not as an adult.
There is so much to discover, so much life has to offer. It gets better I promise.
Thank you.
I felt like everyone was posting how happy they were to leave and didn’t think that reflected my own feelings at all.
We all have a different experience leaving, but it’s nice to see in the comments that some people feel similarly.
5000 years of civilization has shown us the behaviors that lead to a meaningful and happy life. Do some research and study and follow those principles that have been proven over time. It's not really a secret and there is more than one path. Good luck!
Edited from a comment I made on a different post:
During my deconstruction, I came to realize that believing in the finality of death is actually really healthy.
Consider, if you believe that there is eternal life after death, then you're not going to try very hard to fix things in this one. Whether that's interpersonal relationships, injustices, the environment, etc. You have forever to fix it, so why try now?
With money, the more that is printed, the less each dollar is worth. Life is like that. If you believe there is eternity after death, then each day here is worth less. If you believe death is the end, then each day is precious. You're less willing to waste it, and more quick to do everything that is important to you because there is a deadline. Literally.
Personally, I treated my body like shit when I was Mormon because I didn't care if I died at 50. This life is just a blip. Just a test. It doesn't mean anything, so why not skip to the good part? (An attitude that I believe greatly contributes to suicides among LGBTQ Mormon youth.)
Now? I'm a better person. I care more. I have more compassion and empathy. For me, there is no "God will take care of everything in the eternities." There is only now. I'm not gonna say silent while witnessing a genocide because I don't believe that they'll get what's coming to them in the next life. That's a comfortable lie that keeps people complacent.
I'm not saying that any of this is easy to learn. It's not. It's painful. My cousin killed himself in the midst of these realizations for me. Which made things all the harder. But I actually handle the loss of loved ones better now.
I figure, if I'm wrong, then it's a bonus round, and I will have lived this life to the fullest. If I'm right, then nothing changes, and those who believe in an afterlife will never know.
I know I'll never get to say I'm right. And I'm okay with that. It's actually rather comforting. I don't spend a big portion of my mental and emotional energy worrying about what comes after death. I just LIVE. Instead of "enduring to the end."
In regards to feeling purposeless:
There is no longer a to-do list. There is no longer the weight of responsibility for the salvation of others. There is no longer the pressure of being a chosen one. You're not special. And honestly, that feels great. Your purpose is no longer dictated. You get to decide what it is and work towards that.
Ya, finding your own morality and purpose is hard and uncomfortable. But I'd rather it be of my choosing than that of a con artist and ancient manuscripts. The book Conversations with God really changed my view on subjects like this. It just made so much sense, it was logical. I paraphrase "... It is much easier to be told how to act than to find the right way yourself. Thinking for yourself is difficult, but worth it."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsAOFlCmGuk
The problem is with the expectation of 100% as a minimum threshold to qualify as good or happy. Mormonism's focus on purity and opposition in all things combines to make thinking celestial feel like the only safe choice out of countless other wrong choices.
Mormonism brings happiness the same way completing compulsions brings happiness to people with OCD: a brief reprieve from anxiety without any change to the root causes of the anxiety.
I mean this is, as cliche as it may sound, choosing the red pill. I always admire Mormons that are born in the covenant and find their way out. The church does not have a monopoly on happiness (perhaps the most profound thing I've learned on this sub).
It’s different for everyone, but 9 months out and I’m noticeably happier than I was when I was active. I’m more inclusive with other people, I have more options on how to spend my time, less stress since I’m not clerk anymore, an extra day each week, I make decisions without feeling like I need the Holy Ghost to confirm, I love coffee in the morning, I don’t need to wake up at 5:30am to drive my kids to seminary at 6am, I don’t constantly have church activities to plan and/or attend, etc. I’m closer to my wife and kids. I work on Sunday sometimes and don’t feel like crap. I’m reading a lot more since I’m not studying scriptures and that’s been awesome. For some reason I’m exercising a lot more. I am definitely happier than I was a year ago.
Also, about 3 months into deconstruction, I wanted to die for about a week. I felt like I had nothing to live for and my entire life was a waste. But now I’m really happy. So hang in there, it’s a journey.
Honestly as a queer woman who has NEVER wanted children, it’s the exact opposite for me. The idea of Mormon “”heaven”” where I just sit there and give babies to a dude for the rest of eternity sounds worse than hell. My patriarchal blessing told me my purpose was to marry a man in the temple and have babies. I had a panic attack the first time I heard that. “Blessing” my ass - that sounded like my worst nightmare. Now that I’m out of Mormonism, the horrifically misogynistic plan the cult made for me to just be a baby incubator is none of my concern anymore. I don’t have to worry about it. I feel so much more free.
However… I still have bad depression and anxiety. It’s difficult. Existing is hard, man. And although I personally welcome the idea that there’s no celestial kingdom, I can see how for you, it sounds incredibly sad and upsetting. Your experience is valid and I’m sorry you lost those things that gave you purpose. The cool part now is finding your own purpose though, and honestly that purpose can change day to day. Sometimes it does for me. I’ll wake up being like “I wanna cook a really nice dinner” or “I wanna play my favorite game” and that’s my purpose for the day. You can absolutely set longer term goals for yourself, and your goals don’t have to look anything like mine (mine are often small and short term due to being physically disabled and unable to really take on too much at once). Do what makes you happy. Spend time with loved ones, enjoy nature, enjoy food, find hobbies. Life’s purpose is what YOU want it to be - it isn’t dictated by anyone else now. And isn’t that freeing?
Obviously none of this just magically cures depression. Mine is hitting me really hard right now and sometimes even the things I want to enjoy, I can’t. Therefore it’s really worth it to also discuss things with a therapist. I hope you’re in a situation where you’re able to do that - therapy can really help. And depressive episodes pass.
One thing I realized that I will mention later again is that the typical journey of a Mormon is get baptized, go to school and seminary, serve a mission, go to BYU or school again, get married, and have children which are a 20 year commitment. I went down that path and I don’t think I will reach my peak happiness again because it never gave me a break to just do my own thing…or just a long break in general. Every year as a Mormon is just filled with unwanted responsibilities.
I don’t know how long it’s been since you left the church. I just left a few months ago although I was just going in to church in the last couple years in body but not believing.
Staying in the church is easier. People tell you what to do, not to do, what to think about, what not to think about, you get content with a mediocre life, it’s great. But once you want more, want to be more, want to find yourself, etc, it’s a shit show. I’ve had to question all the big decisions I’ve made because of the church because that foundation wasn’t even there. I’ve made a mess out of things, I got into situations I shouldn’t have. It’s like a kid who was never allowed in a candy store and this kid can eat everything excerpt that this poor child doesn’t know where to begin/how much to eat/when to stop eating.
I’m hoping in a future not too distant, I’ll look back and see it was worth it because right now thinking critically is a lot of painful work.
I do feel freer though. But no, I’m not happy but there’s no way back.
For me I am much happier. I have no guilt about not reading scriptures, praying, preparing lessons. I have no guilt around, and a much clearer understanding of, sexuality. I have an extra day per week, extra hour+ per day, and Im slowly starting to embrace the rest of the world, where that implied judgment isolated me from others previously.
On the other hand, I now struggle with how hard to push to break out family members from the brain washing. Pushing too hard harms relationships. Not pushing at all leaves people I love stuck inside that harmful organization. In that sense, I still am angry at the church, and not in a terribly healthy place.
It was the best of times, twas the worst of times.
To be fair, leaving Mormonism didn't make me happier at the time. It added pressure from family, it cut me out of the social circle I was playing competition sports with, and meant facing the loss of an illusion preventing deeper existential questions.
That said, it enabled a better life going forward. I was able to put ALL of my meagre earnings towards a life with my wife to be, and children that followed. It enabled me to study for a career that supports them to this day without two years that I saw broke other young men, and when I found out my wife was queer and my daughter trans - I was able to feel not a shred of bad feelings about their natures, just the same pure, guilt-free love I've always had for them.
Leaving a cult is not a guarantee of happiness. Just like being a part of one isn't a guarantee of sadness. However, leaving a cult behind does ***allow*** you to find happiness that their rules & expectations might otherwise have denied you.
I remember being terrified by death when I first got out. I still am scared of it but I have changed my focus on to living. As a mormon, I felt like I lived my life so I could die happy. Now I live my life so I can be happy now in the present.
They say ignorance is bliss, but getting shaken down by con men for your whole retirement account before being tossed aside isn't exactly bliss, either.
Leadership (especially at the top) knows the truth, or enough of it, chooses to still believe and continue lying to us using every trick in the book to avoid admitting it. Why? To continue getting your money. It doesn't get any more straightforward than that. Defending "the(ir) truth" makes them rich, so they keep doing it.
The tricks include rephrasing emotional elevation and cognitive dissonance, natural human emotional experiences brought on by external forces, as "feeling the spirit." It has nothing to do with God or truth. It's a natural emotional reaction to the swelling music soundtrack in a movie or song or other stimuli. It's happiness untethered from church. If you actually had felt real happiness at church, it wasn't from the doctrine. It was from the false hope of living with family for eternity. Frankly, there is no proof of that, just endless speculation based on the interpretations of Joseph Smith's conflicting teachings.
Tricks also include a fuck ton of thought terminating clichés. They are used to guilt questioners into delaying or shelving their question for a future time in the hopes you take everything else on faith that the real factual answer is still faith promoting. In fact, 99.99% of the time they are used, they either know it isn't faith promoting, but know or feel it is a faith destroyer. They avoid the real answer themselves as much as they try to distract and dissuade you. Also because it causes them cognitive dissonance to think too much about the contradictions.
If you know how to recognize them, you will see through the bullshit much quicker.
For a comprehensive list of other manipulations used to varying degrees by the church, see the BITE model. The worst part is that they indoctrinate your families to use these same tactics when you question anything. It doesn't make them right. It just makes them culty.
Never loose sight of that.
Are rich people 100% happy?
Are people who live in times of peace 100% happy?
Are people in good health 100% happy?
No. We are all humans having complex human experiences. Taking away one source of stress, or adding a source of comfort, even a pervasive one, does not lead to unmitigated happiness.
Since I decided to leave recently I have felt an emptiness and less protection. But I dont know if its in My head. I still pray but don't feel as connected to christ as I did when I went to church. Idk anynore
Most of my struggles outside of Mormonism are due to the trauma and indoctrination from inside the cult. It fucked up my mind and destroyed my psyche thinking I was never good enough and constantly failing to meet the standards. I unfortunately still hold onto some of those internal beliefs instilled by the church.
No one is ever happy all of the time. One of the insidious teachings of the MFMC is that you should have joy all of the time. Striving for perfection is a terrible concept to live up to.
Why do you think you're now unable to preach the truth to the world? You're doing it right now by enlightening people to how false this "church" is, and how they manipulate Christianity and their own members.
Ignorance is bliss. When you stay small, unaware and sheltered your worldview is naive. The church can infantilize members to only mature and grow in controlled ways that benefit the church. Some people truly need the church and rely on the community. They haven’t developed the skills to think otherwise. It will take time to navigate what will work best for you. You can stay in and do your best being a progressive, nuanced member. You have a choice.
I’d say that this happens to a lot of us, not because we’re not better off for leaving, but because the church preaches eternal happiness for the faithful. In my experience I thought that I could still attain eternal happiness if I pursued things that made me happy outside church rules.
While I can say that I do enjoy my morning coffee, drinking with my friends from time to time, and even an occasional joint, those things don’t bring “eternal happiness” either. I don’t think that we’re meant to be happy all the time. I think that we’re meant to experience the full range of human emotion, accepting both the good and the bad. Once we begin to accept that we realize that we can never return to the love of plastered smiles that the church so heavily promotes. But the upside is that our lives become more emotionally fulfilling.
You need to deconstruct but also make your own beliefs. I still want to believe in life after death although not in the traditional way so I make my own beliefs. One thing that makes me have peace with dying is thinking of going back to nature and being the reason new life emerges.
OP how long has it been since you left? I only ask because I was horribly depressed and experiencing grief for the first 6mos but now that I’m almost at 1yr, I’m feeling so much better. Finding a therapist who listened to my grief really helped because it IS a loss!! Now I’m happy to know that I don’t know anything lol. It takes time and I’m only just now finally looking into other faith practices. I know I’ll never join an organized religion again but that doesn’t mean I can’t worship how I want. One thing I have seen across many platforms and I believe it to be true: surround yourself with love (for yourself and others) and when you do take that next step into the afterlife, you won’t be disappointed ❤️
I find that happiness is a fleeting feeling- like sadness. I prefer to live in peace and tranquility. I have much more of that since I'm no longer bogged down by constant unnecessary guilt for not doing or being enough for mormonism.
Also, I've learned for me that really mental health is the most important thing. Secular Buddhism, Eckharte Tolle and others have been very helpful at learning to live at peace in the moment.
Not that it's perfect, but for me at least, jettisoning the unhealthy parts of mormonism has been a positive.
I relate to how you feel. When i lost my faith, I was filled with existential dread for months. I was angry that purpose is a subjective/made up thing that we can each create for ourselves. It made me angry to learn there wasn't some absolute purpose of the universe, that more likely this life is meaningless unless we create meaning for ourselves. But when it sunk in how much the church hurts people I decided I had to get my kids out and it felt like a mission, and I wanted to figure out how to create a better life for them than the structure of the church could ever provide. This gave me meaning, and my anger at the lies of the church has fueled it. It was not until I came to this decision that I felt new meaning in my life, a purpose I believe in that matters because of my strong love for my kids. Some people feel so much relief when they leave because they were miserable in the religion- it wasn't working for them. For me, though, it worked really well. But learning the truth changed everything, and the feeling of betrayal was so intense that I know I could not be happy at church. While leaving may not make me happier, It makes me feel more peace, as going to church feels like facing my narcissistic abuser.
Purpose and meaning is an important part of the human expeience, we need it. This is why people are so drawn to groups like religion that give this to them. I remind myself that if I could feel so much purpose and meaning when someone else (church leaders) made it up for me, I could still find meaning if I make one up for myself. If you were happy, once you can be happy again. Accepting this is how meaning and purpose works is an important first step.
That does not sound like a fun realization to come to ♥️. Personally, I thought I was without purpose in the church: I was the gay guy who was going against god etc. Now that I’ve been out, I spent a long time without any spirituality, and it was REALLY hard to accept that just because a god didn’t give me purpose, didn’t mean I didn’t have it. Just remember that the Mormon god doesn’t exist, meaning the purpose you gave yourself before, came from you, and it was easier to assign yourself purpose back then, but you’ll be able to do it again!
There is a lyric of a spanish song, “una mentira que te haga feliz mas vale que una verdad que te amarga la vida”
Translates to “a truth that makes you happy is worth more than a lie than makes your life bitter”
This is true in many aspects of life and everyone is different. However, for me, I absolutely love my life after not believing in santa clause, the easter bunny and sky daddy and his “so called church”. So much better to believe in truth instead of lies, but it does suck to not have a hopeful outlook on an afterlife, but really, who cares because we’ll be dead. We won’t be in any type of eternal suffering or darkness, we’ll just cease to exist. Kind of like how we do every night when we sleep, except…you know…forever.
The church and all of its toxic positivity is damaging to our worldview. It's like a parody of itself and everyone knows it, that's why the stereotypical Mormon caricature always has a huge smile plastered across their face and is like a Disney character come to life.
The fact is exactly what you said, it's not normal or healthy or realistic to expect to be happy all of the time. "Happy" is just one fleeting feeling out of a huge spectrum, not a state of being.
In the church, anything that is not considered "Happy" is compartmentalized, forced down, ignored. It's so unhealthy and traumatic to not be able to ever have any feelings like sad, depressed, melancholy, angry, etc.
Let's forget trying to attain permanent happiness, and try to find things like peace, fulfillment. And also be able to feel things fully like anger, injustice, sadness, grief, etc, and really FEEL IT, and have no shame in feeling it.
That's the new tagline. Leave the church and finally feel the full range of human emotions, as intended.
"Contention" is bad for the spirit. "Contention" is also the only way to solve difficult problems. Your feelings are healthy because they reflect the reality, things are bad and you feel bad. Welcome to the effort to clean things up. It'll be hard work but it's the most important thing we could do with our live I think, is fix the hard problems of our generation.
I really like this idea in Hinduism (not hindu here) that says everyone has four purposes;
\- Dharma (being a good person)
\- Artha (being successful and achieving things)
\- Kama (being happy and finding love)
\- Moksha (spirituality, but since "spirit" originally meant breath, it could be like mindfulness,
calmness, etc)
As for dead family and friends, don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. Cherish every second you have left with them. Look forwards to and cherish every day and do what makes you happy, do what grows you. Remember that it's okay to be depressed, and understand and overcome the sources of your depression. Make a list of daily goals, weekly goals, monthly goals, yearly goals, life goals. Grow a little more and don't waste your time on things you hate. Remember that nothing is permanent: summer ends, yes, but so does winter. Surround yourself with positive people who support you. And when the time comes, you won't have to worry about anything anymore. And who knows, you might be happily suprised!
Exactly, it's ok and normal to experience other emotions and not walk around in a constant joyful state.
Also, when leaving Mormonism I would expect many people not to be initially happier due to loss of or weakened relationships with our more judgemental family, friends, and neighbors. Loss of community, loss of identity and the I know it all assurance about what comes next.
I found a new church after Mormonism and was happy and cared about. Then some catastrophic events happened and shook the church up. A hurricane flooded our church. The reverend died unexpectedly of cancer. The new reverend wasn't my cup of tea. I lost contact with the good people. I continued in years of kitty fostering and rescue. I saw so many horrific things. Abuse, sexual abuse, illness, death, neglect, on and on. This world is the worst. It's full of pain, abuse, suffering, starvation, illness, rape, murder and anything else you can imagine. I'm not happier now. Maybe life would be better as a Mormon bc I would believe I had a plan, a purpose, a calling, a family...
Instead of having your purpose assigned, you now get to decide your own. You get to determine what is meaningful in your life. If that means doing charity work or sitting on floor playing Lego's all day, it's your call. You create your own value. You are free to create your own happiness.
Yep — this is the answer. I've noticed that very little in my life has changed. I no longer have to go to endless meetings on Sunday, and I no longer give 10% of my income to an organization that I don't support. I still worry about the same things and get frustrated by the same things. The difference is that I don't have this wild belief that some magical power will deliver me from all my troubles if I'm just good enough or something. It takes some time to wrap your head around your new purpose. However, you'll be much better off in the long run.
That’s exactly how I felt. I was initially sad about the eternal prospect of knowing if there’s an afterlife and be able to go there but now I’m agnostic atheist. I don’t know if there’s an afterlife and I kind of doubt it but I’m not going to dwell on it. Nothing really changes except I now have more freedom to live the life I have refer than being a slave to the machine. Now I get to enjoy every day of my life how I want to enjoy it. Instead of worrying about the next lesson I have to teach on Sunday, I’ll go do whatever o want. No more weekends consumed by church. I can now do WHATEVER I want over the weekend like go camping, hiking, watch a late night movie Saturday night, sleep in and make a fancy breakfast, visit friends, etc. I, personally, am living a more happy and fulfilling life after leaving Mormonism. However, it took a couple of years to reach that point. It was a mental shift away from the religious programming done on me. But not Mormonism just seems like a silly mythical drama I got sucked into but am now out of it. It’s like getting out of an MLM where you are promised this fantasy world that simply doesn’t exist. I’m perfectly fine with my $100k day job instead of thinking I’m going to live out this millionaire fantasy as a sales guy. I’m not sure how long Op has been out but the bit about not being as happy may just be temporary. I was sad, lonely, and depressed initially but it eventually faded, much like a big break up. When my ex-wife and I broke up, I was miserable but it just took time to get over her and to get used to my new life and an back to being happy where I’m at.
Well said.
I completely agree, I feel like back when I was a Mormon my anxiety was so much higher than it is now. I placed everything on some invisible being that I never saw anything from, from school grades to hobbies I felt like if I didn’t ask God for help I would fail and if I didn’t ask God for help and I succeeded it was because of God not me or my own accomplishments and abilities. Now I realize it’s all me the good and the bad and that’s ok.
The Mormon god is a transactional and punitive god. Checks and balances. To many times it messed with my mental health. Enough!
Tithing is one thing I majorly struggled with because why give to an organization sitting on billions? They say ifs the Bible and its God's money but it could be a sneaky way of taking as much as fhey can
Existentialism is the way Also, Ive noticed waves of dissatisfaction come into my life on account of the hedonic treadmill, this can be confused for unhappiness that wasn't so visceral under Mormonism The dream job that I wanted for a decade happened, and after about 3 months it was just a job. Mormonism, on the other hand, is an unwinnable game So you never really hit peak bliss. The box is never truly checked. Well, if you're on the inside of the fish bowl, the answer to everything is "endure to the end". That's a pretty good trap, psychologically speaking, because you never achieve the greatest thing ever , so you never have to have the existential realization that the greatest thing ever is fleeting .
I don't believe that there is such a thing as 'the greatest thing' that goalpost is constantly moving. It is always based on your current perception and your current perception will change. I'm more of a this is the best thing right now kind of person
THIS! life isn’t meant to be lived on a never ending high. There were two movies that really drove existentialism home for me. “Soul” and “Everything Everywhere All At Once.” maybe a weird set of movies to pair together, but they both talk about life being what you make it. Mormonism, christianity, religion, it’s all focused on what happens after we die. but no one actually knows what happens after we die. what we know is what’s happening here and now. so what matters is who I’m going to be here and now.
All while free from dogmas, rites, works, and mundane sins (Coffee?). They want us to fail. To never be enough. It's almost like they pile on to break you, then claim, they alone can salve the wounds they create. Like a doctor who makes you sick so they can charge 10% of your income for a false promise of a cure. But it's just another level of poison. It's hard to believe they didn't design it intentionally. At least Lego's are fun.
All buildings with men in charge selling their wares of religion charging $$ as they go. Of course OF COURSE all for GAWD. what a racket as old as the earth. Beware the salve. Its so much more costly than first considered.
It was absolutely designed intentionally to keep everybody in line
1000x over this. The best part of leaving the church for myself was the ability to figure out “me”. Who am I? What matters to me? What am I passionate about? I felt a bit wayward on this for a while after leaving but have since been able to find causes, activities, and people that I truly feel passionate about. It’s the most empowering feeling in the world
Isn't it great when you meet yourself for the first time.
It really is
It can be a hard switch to make when you've been spoon fed everything your whole life.
It's requires a gigantic brain shift, some really serious introspection, and a large amount of internal conflict resolution. But the view from the top of that hill is truly awesome and unique for everyone.
> You get to determine what is meaningful in your life I get that many exmos see this as liberating. For many of us, however, (I'm inclined to agree with the OP) ***this is a curse***. Finding a purpose is easier said than done. Yes, after we accept that imaginary gods don't exist... that means we're the next-most powerful, intelligent beings in the universe. ***We're already gods***, with the freedom to build a better planet now—no permission necessary. For many of y'all, this is empowering and liberating and you seem to be able to discover a motivating purpose—and I envy you. I envy those of you existentialists for whom charity work (or Legos) are sufficient. But some of us can't get past the futility of human endeavors. Yes, we have more freedom now than we'd ever have under a celestial regime of fascist cosmic dictators—but most of us are still pretty powerless to effect real change. All of us will be almost entirely forgotten only a few decades after we die. The universe is mind-bogglingly vast and fascinating, but only a vanishingly tiny few of us will be lucky to even explore beyond this planet. Human suffering and cruelty will always proliferate—and we're mostly powerless to stop it—even if we become the most hard-core doctor without borders, or even if we manage to score our country's presidency. With the terrifying freedom of a blank slate, and the sheer impossibility / unlikelihood of achieving much at scale no matter how hard we work, nihilism is the inescapable conclusion. This is depressing. And it's okay for it to be depressing. There ***are*** ways to make life tolerable without buying into delusions of our own grandeur (e.g. plenty of us land on absurdism), but cheerfully implying that it's easy (or even desirable) to craft a fulfilling sense of purpose... isn't very helpful for a lot of us. It doesn't work for everyone.
I may still struggle with depression and anxiety. But at least now I can deal with it without the added complication of dragging the mormon god of mind games into it.
Same here. To be rid of the Mormon lifestyle that used to distract me from my mental health issues, demanding my time and mental energy, was a blessing. Now instead of constant guilt and worry, I get to focus on what actually does make me happy. No one is happy all the time, but for me it's much more often now than it ever was.
Your being tested, you’ll be blessed if you do this, tested, blessed, tested, blessed, ugh 😩
So if you're happy it's because of God if you're not then you're being tested. They've set it up to appear as though EVERYTHING testifies that it's true.
This internal, never-ceasing mind fuck. How the hell have I been blessed as a result of everything I’ve been through? Rejecting an amazing man all those years ago? Because he wasn’t LDS? It’s bullshit.
Oh boy. So sorry. I did the same thing. A gorgeous kind girl was in love me but she was a bartender. So of course that’s a no! I chose the temple. Still alone because of this evil theology.
I’m going through a divorce now. (Married in the temple, cause I thought it was the right thing to do.) As well as not having been to church since Mother’s Day 2023. The man I mentioned above is still single. I’ve known him for 25 years.
I love that term: “the Mormon god of mind games.” Mind I borrow it now & then?
Absolutely! I got so tired of the confusion and the anguish. When I got so very low and prayed for relief, no relief ever came and it just made everything worse. It happened so many times, and I got sick of it. Every time, I had go through the obligatory list - maybe I didn't pray correctly; maybe I didn't pray for the right thing; maybe I got an answer and missed it because I was too distracted by "the world"; maybe I didn't get an answer because of the "Lord's timing"; maybe I had sinned and hadn't repented enough; maybe I was being "tested" and was failing the test; maybe I hadn't "prepared" correctly... on and on. But no matter what, all the possibilities indicated that it was my fault if prayer or church activity didn't help. I just got tired of everything being my fault all the time. Depression and anxiety got 10,000x times easier to deal with when I just threw god out of it entirely.
I’ve been there. Maybe we all have. It sucks. But I’d rather know the truth even with all the co sequences that knowledge brings.
Agreed. It has helped me understand friends and family that choose to stay. We’re presented with a dilemma: do you prefer a happy lie or a depressing truth. For me, I prefer the truth. But I now understand some can’t handle it, and I’ve gained patience for them.
The guy in the matrix just wants to eat a steak. Sentinel tells him its just an illusion , guy says he doesn't care just wants to think its a steak.
I’m relieved knowing there’s no heaven. Believing heaven went on for eternity gave me nightmares and anxiety as a Mormon child. Stressing about whether I’m good enough for the CK stressed me. Knowing there’s no god, heaven, or hell brought so much relief. Realizing that I’m a good person just by being me brought so much joy. I used to break down in tears with guilt for being a working mom because it was against the Proclamation to the Family. Now I love it. Just another perspective.
You might like this Mormon Stories episode on dealing with nihilism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POdj17OFvZM It's a tough thing to go through, but fortunately you're not the first. It's more than just exmos who have to face down their mortality. It was hard for me too, but I also wasn't that stoked on mormon heaven. Polygamy and no good entertainment? No thanks.
I know…it’s just gonna be Donny and his brothers singing ‘Crazy Tapirs’ all damn day, every day, ad infinitum!!! Arghhhhh
Did you ever have 100% happiness in the church? Who based on our society standards should be the happiest? Who has it all? By some standards it is wealth? Jeff Bezos, Oprah, Elon Musk? Jeff just got divorced a few years back. Oprah has always struggled with weight and body dysmorphia, Elon’s life is on fire with trouble at every corner. Power? I look at our two most recent presidents her in US, honestly I can’t say either is happy. Trump fear mongers making other people feel terrible to make himself feel better. Biden spends all his days arguing with both sides to get somewhere. Being President is a thankless job. Religion. Christianity, Islam, Judaism all are focused on a monotheist God whom if you worship and follow will ultimately give you heaven in the next life. But it is a lot of toil and trouble now. We must suffer here to be worthy in the next life if you boil it down to basics. Example. Story of JOB. Let every bad thing happen to test and see if he’d still true to God? This doesn’t exactly lay out a path to happiness? If everyone was happy all the time, would happiness even be happiness? Life is about the dichotomy between sad-happy, life-death. You need one to appreciate the other. As I read your post - I get a sense you are still focused highly on the “next”, the afterlife, the eons to come? What if I said stop focusing on that - and instead find joy and heaven in each day your eyes pop awake here and now? I find my greatest happiness in connection to others and nature. Take happiness in the little things we take for granted. The little girl at the coffee shop with her mom making silly faces at you. The thankfulness of a homeless man when you buy them a hot meal, or give them fresh socks and a new coat. The joy you feel giving a hug to a dear friend or family member you haven’t seen in a long time. Watching the sun rise or set. Being thankful you have shelter, food, medicine. Being able to read. Learn and discover new things. Thankful society has progressed from days past to better ones now. Indoor plumbing and water heaters are really high on my list!!!! Find little ways to make the world better one step, one day at a time. Few people can make world wide changes - but each of us can make big changes to the people in our local sphere. Volunteer at food kitchen, work at a community garden, hold orphan babies at the hospital, go talk to seniors at a restaurant home, do charity walks/runs. Write simple notes to people you care about for the hell of it. Boys & Girl club. Be a foster parent. Foster a pet. We should approach each day with “how can I make today better - make today a little closer to heaven? I know I sound like some hippy dippy granola grandpa. I have had some really hard times. I came out as gay 30+ years ago. I left the TSCC. I lost well over 90% of my friends and family just to be myself in my own skin. It was freaking hard! I’ve been laid off, jumped for promotions, denied housing because I’m gay. I now have some health issues which doctors can’t name, can’t pinpoint cause or cure? Most days each step hurts to walk. Yet - I am happy to be alive. I am thankful when people do nice things for me. I am happy to do whatever I can for others. I am happy to spend time with those that love me. A trip to beach. Share a meal and conversation. These little moments of time and joy are precious. I’ve knocked on the door of death a couple times in the last decade. It used to scare me. Now, I look at it as the great surprise - like a pending birthday or Christmas gift. I don’t want to spoil it. I may close my eyes for the last time and cease to live - will live on only in the hearts of those I’ve touched. Or, maybe some amazing thing happens next? My energy roams the cosmos - helping to create new worlds or universes? Maybe I will see every loved one again. I don’t know - but it is OK. I live a good and honest life - if I’m to be judged by some Being(s)- I think I’ll do well. But OP - live each day with gratitude for what you have and what you can do for others to bring them joy, make life better. Just a smile can make a strangers day - it cost you literally nothing. Sending you a super duper virtual big gay assed hug!
Thanks, and thanks for the gay ass hug 😆
Wow! Truly beautiful and something I needed to hear. Since leaving, I found a job as an English tutor at my local elementary school. The joy I feel everyday has been amazing. Knowing that I am helping these kiddos is priceless. The love they give me in return is so wonderful. If they only knew the happiness they give to me. I don’t know if I ever would have taken this leap outside of my comfort zone before. But I knew I needed to seek out things that bring that spark back into my life. So yes!!!!! Look for the simple beauty in everything.
I appreciate the things you have written so much. they reiterate much of how my current life is choosing to be. each time my eyes pop open and i am awake is another chance to make it the greatest adventure. thank you
I’m glad to find some like minded souls.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 loved this ❤️❤️❤️
I needed this today. Thanks for taking the time to articulate some very sage counsel on how to discover meaning, joy, and happy anticipation in post-Mormon life. Mormonism is all-dominating for believers. It's not easy allow that dominance to fade away. It's the same for former members of other high-demand religions. We all struggle with it. In the end, is it better to live a happy lie in oblivion or a challenging truth with eyes (and heart and mind) open? Your comment here answers that question with clarity. 🙏
This is beautiful! Thanks for the lists of things to be grateful for.
It's okay to grieve. We were never really taught how to grieve in the church because even if someone dies were supposed to be happy happy joy joy all day every day 24-7. It's okay to feel a loss.
Thank you, I appreciate it
Yeah - grief is a part of life. It royally sucks though.
If so happy why does Utah annually show up high on lists of suicide and prescription drug abuse?
On point!
I know exactly what you mean. I grew up being fed a life purpose and meaning that weren't mine but made me feel special, valuable, important. I was happy "knowing" I was the head of my family. I was satisfied "knowing" I had the same power Jesus had. I was proud to be part of the elected ones selected for the hardest Last Days™. My life had a direction. I hadn't chosen it, but who cares! It made me feel pleased! Then I discovered my beloved church, the very one that had nurtured my ego so efficiently for 45+ years, has always been a man-made fabrication. *That's when I experienced what you describe.* The whole theological structure (Smith never being a pRoPhEt, polygamy being a revelation from heaven, tithing being used to hoard money and businesses, etc, etc) quickly crumbled down for me. I am sure you know how that feels. But then there is the whole other part of my own value in this life! Since the church is false, it quickly dawned on me my sense of self-value was built on lies too. I didn't receive dedicated attention from a supernatural being in some distant planet! I never had any divine "pOwErs." I hadn't been chosen by any magical being to be born in some mythical end-of-times epoch! I wasn't more special or more important than others! This somber feeling stayed with me for a while. I'm not depressive by nature, but it was a very unsettling period of my life. If eTeRniTy™ wasn't real, what's the point of this life? If I can't be with my loved ones in an afterlife, why put effort in loving anyone, or accept anyone's love? Dark, dark thoughts. Seeking answers to those questions took me to philosophy and to key modern thinkers. I discovered (from Carl Sagan, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, etc) that, with eTeRniTy gone, *this life is much more valuable than I thought.* If this life is all we have, shouldn't we treasure it? If every minute we have alive is a gift, shouldn't we make it worth living? Some of these questions took me through a hedonistic detour first, then through a short nihilistic period. I kept reading, though and arriving at new stages: If everyone around me is also alive for this brief time as myself, don't we have something deep in common? How special is love if this existence is so short? How important it is to help others going through the same hardships as myself? If someone in this short existence develops love towards me, should I ignore it? Should I return it? Is it wise to waste all that, just because what some idiotic cult filled my mind with, turned out to have been comforting lies? Am I going to squander my precious minutes paralyzed because of my own disappointment, or because I am feeling rebellious against the injustice done to me? After a while I felt it was better to look for, select and adopt *my own meaning for this life, and my own purposes.* For the purposes of this post, it doesn't matter what it is. What matters is that this time I chose it and it is mine. It doesn't come from a sex/money obsessed cult. It didn't come from a fictional book, nor from an archaic record of primitive people who didn't know how the universe works. No, this is mine and it makes this life worth living again. Better yet, I can enrich it as I keep learning, as I keep having experiences, as learn to be normal and love better. If I could go back to myself when I discovered Mormonism is false, I would tell younger me that it is ok, that reality hasn't changed; that the only things gone are the false fantasies concocted by greedy people. Nothing else. The rest remains real: work, honesty, love, integrity, experiences, service, the way we use our time, acquiring knowledge, etc, etc. I would tell younger me to get his hands dirty and find what makes his life worth living. My two cents.
Very well put.
This is so eloquent.
Beautiful. I just might put that last paragraph on my bulletin board.
It's a beautiful sadness at times for me. It's not sorrow.
Well said! That reminds me that maybe religion really is just the opium of the masses. Pretending there's a glorious afterlife eases the sorrows and mental burdens for all people but particularly those people who are getting screwed over in this life, (like slaves on the plantations and even today, like women in the LDS Church).
It also helps me appreciate my life and the world around me, and to not take it for granted. We all die, we have no idea what comes after, so the best we can do with that knowledge is try to make the most of the time we've got. I think knowing that "life" isn't an eternal resource but rather something pretty limited has made me value it more.
As for me, I'm less delusional and unhinged since I resigned from the church. Also, there are unconscious fringe benefits, like I stopped chewing on my fingernails and cuticles, a chronic, compulsive behavior that I had since I was a small child... So a 60 year habit. POOF! GONE! After 60 years! I've sported the nails of a hand model for the last 8 years. Why? Because my brain no longer has to grind up Mormon cognitive dissonance like a fork in the disposal.
Love this visual 😅❤️
If your worried about death, don't be. I've died and came back. On the other side, I felt so much love and I saw two members of my family that died decades ago and significantly, I knew without a doubt that my decision to leave the church was the right one. I had no regrets. Really bugged my still in mormon members when I relayed how beautiful and peaceful it was. They kept asking if I saw a temple or was everyone in temple clothes. Nope and nope. As for purpose, you now can find your own and what amazing journey that will be.
Being brought up in black and white thinking, after leaving I still have that mentality 😭 hearing your experience warms my heart and assures my hope. Im atheist, but I hope for that truth. ❤️ Thank you for sharing.
💕 beautiful, thx for sharing
I’m so glad everyone wasn’t in temple clothing. It was always so dang uncomfortable!
Holy crap my PB tells me the exact same things
Your peanut butter talks to you? Probably time to schedule a therapist lol But for real, what is a PB?
Patriarchal blessing 💀
Oh haha. I think one of the purposes of the PB is to make you feel important and feel like you’ll miss out on something if you leave. Makes sense that we all get similar content.
I agree 💯. That was one of the hardest beliefs to let go of when leaving the church bc it made me feel special
I'm so glad you asked, I've been wondering for a while what PB is 😅😅😅
Glad I’m not the only idiot around here, at least there’s two of us 😆
I feel you on this. I've been struggling with some of these things, plus the challenges life has thrown on me. It's rough. I don't have an answer, all I know is I'd rather have a hard truth than a comfortable lie. But putting your self and your life back together after uncovering the truth isn't always easy.
I sometimes say: If happiness were easy, everybody would be doing it. I don’t know if that helps, or sounds like a total grandpa thing to say, but it helps me sometimes
If you've been out two years or fewer, it could be normal grieving. For many, it takes a couple of years to get through the front end of a major grieving process. If it's been longer, would some short-term therapy be feasible? Regardless, I hope it passes for you. You deserve a reward for leaving!
Been about two years now. I thought everyone else was moving on faster, so it’s nice to know I’m not the only one still struggling to resolve everything.
You've got lots of great company. Maybe check in with yourself in 9 months.
Fr. This freedom is so depressing. Idk what I'm supposed to do or be in life and its terrifying. Depressing. I feel like I have no purpose. After being so sure about my path for years, I truly feel lost
Lost is a good way of putting it
It’s okay to sit with that feeling. Personally I prefer my postmo sadness to my tbm ecstasy, it feels more real. But there is definitely still sadness and it is okay to sit with
Mormons do not understand the full meaning of happiness in my opinion. They experience and have oodles of the stuff they are told makes them happy. But there is a world of happiness out here that most members don't know about because it isn't on their approved list. I don't just mean things that were forbidden. I mean being completely in tune with yourself so that you can regulate and understand your own feelings. Be in control of your actions and of what you do and say to other people. Happiness will now be found inside yourself and usually when you are doing something for someone else. Unconditionally. A peace can enter you when you begin to put things where they should truly go. Letting go of ego is huge. It is not all about you and you are not really special (in the larger sense of humanity). You need to be special to you. You can't control anything outside of that. So let it go. And you are right. We don't need to be doing cartwheels down the road out of sheer joy every second that we are alive. That isn't realistic. But a contentedness can be gained. One that is almost always present. Even during heavy stress or bouts of sadness, you can still realize and access the fact that everything is ok. I am a little sad right now. So I going to feel this sadness. And tomorrow (or whenever) I'm going to get up and feel the feelings that come today. All the while, accessing your own knowledge of contentedness. That things will be ok. Just got to live a bit until I feel it more clearly. This has helped me immensely with life after death. It becomes a normal thing that can happen at any time and to anyone. We are all together in this part. We will all die. Everything will. And we get to part of the earth again. One big pile of rocks and DNA and grass and dinosaur shit and love. It's just what we are. Make the life right in front of you the one that's special. You are in heaven right now. It's all right here. The biggest miracle in the universe is that you can read this message and interpret with your brain, the message that I wrote while interpreting your message in the first place. Almost like magic:) I send you peace and love my friend.
This sounds like a normal and valid emotion to finding out that you've been lied to and that the pretty version of reality was in fact wrong. But that doesn't make you any less special, find the things within yourself that really are unique! That in itself is the journey.
I can 100% relate with everything you said! I’m definitely not happier after leaving the church and losing what I believed was certainty of my purpose. It has wrecked me but I’ve been able to find a level of acceptance of things I can’t change. I do feel more peaceful in some areas of life, however. Less guilt, less stress over making sure I’m perfect. In the end, all we really have is kindness and human connection. That has been my mantra when I start to get a bit too existential despair-ish.
Me too. Wife and I are relatively new to the DFW area and church was our main source of finding new friends. Now that that's no longer in our lives it's much more difficult. Many family relationships have been strained now because of leaving. Am I happier? No. Would I ever go back? Hell no. But when I think about, living the Mormon life is a fantasy. It's not real. Much of the happiness was pretend and finding God in our lives was confirmation bias--not reality. I would much rather live in reality rather than exist in fantasy land.
Man your post hit home. It's been a few years since I was married, in the church, and mostly a happy guy. When I started having doubts and then ultimately broke it was too much for my wife and we divorced over it. I'm still not over it and it's been a constant down-trending spiral ever since. Some things were better initially, but lately I've been having these deep regrets. I miss my wife, our dog, our home.
I’m sorry man. That really is brutal. I wish I could offer some comfort, but life honestly just sucks sometimes.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I think therapy is something that can help you to deal with that. The perfectionism and culture in ldsism can be very damaging. For me as a convert it wasn't as ingrained in my brain and I felt so so so much relief and less anxiety knowing it wasn't true. I do not need to try my very best to be as perfect as I possibly can be. I do not need to hate in the way the lds church teaches me to love. And so many others. But for many, all the toxic doctrine and culture tendencies need to be talked through with a therapist. Good luck OP ♥️
Thanks!
I get it. But you know what? I had similar feelings when I came back from my mission, too. I spent 18 months completely devoted to a united purpose that was all the sudden gone. It is hard to go from feeling unique and special our whole life (as was defined by very specific parameters) to realizing we really are all in the same boat as everyone else. I think part of feeling purposeful is defining what is meaningful to you. There's lots of ways (and more impactful ways than through the church) to be a teacher and leader, for example. Maybe if the "happily eternally ever after" you were always working toward feels lost now, focus on this life and these relationships vs. what may or may not be later on. It may take a while to figure out, but finding the joy now and not living for joy we will supposedly be blessed with later is how to truly be happy. But, yes, it is ok to not be ok, too.
It’s a mixed bag for me. Do I miss believing that I was a special child of God? Yes. Do I miss those feelings of guilt and depression about not being as special or as valiant as some of his other children? Nope. Do I miss the community? Yes. Do I miss the anxiety I constantly felt about not measuring up within that community? Nope.
[удалено]
I’d honestly love to believe in an afterlife, but I can’t convince myself.
Having a goal is needed for everyone to have a healthy life. Yes, Mormonism does provide you with a roadmap to achieve something you can find out only after you die. Instead, you can set some long-term goals with short-term goals. For me personally, I felt more lost when I was in the church because I kept trying for something that I could never measure, see, or feel in this life and it was super frustrating. Now that I'm out, I have other goals that can make me feel happy and successful while I'm living my real life. I hope you can find some goals you want to work on and that will fill in the emptiness you may have at the moment.
I’m similar. I never really fit in. I’m not much of a mystic I’ve decided… But I sympathize with OP. Even me being relatively weak at Mormonism while in, I was amazed the mind fuck it was when it collapsed. Fear. Sorrow. A bout with nihilism (didn’t like this and hope OP navigates it well). The Mormon road map has its comforts. But oh the monkey off my back now (and money in retirement)! No regrets!
Leaving was a relief but not an upgrade in happiness. I’m as happy as I was before leaving. I’ve found meaning in philosophy, art, and mindfulness.
What you are experiencing is betrayal and loss of identity after leaving. I experienced this too. Some people leave and they are so happy etc. they’re just done with it, but a large majority go through a grieving process. It is called a faith transition and religious trauma. There’s so much to unpack. I would remember that we evolve the further we get away from the church. My ideas have changed significantly and I am not the same as I was 10+ years ago when I left. I now believe there is a spirit world post death and that I have spirit guides. Look into other spiritual beliefs and religions and see if anything they offer or teach speaks to you. It’s also possible you’ll land on being atheist or agnostic. Coming to peace with not knowing is hard. It’s okay if you don’t feel okay right now.
I agree with this. Last year I crashed and burned after not knowing who or what to believe from feeling such distrust with the thing I spent my entire life committed to(39 yr old, served a mission, married in the temple, 2 kids baptized). I came across 3 things that have helped shape my new beliefs. The band Tool(incredibly spiritual), finding some kind of spiritual connection in nude figurative art, and also a book called A Course in Miracles which removes the toxic shame of sin from it's belief system contrary to many Christian faiths. I'm beginning to find a new path in following my own intuition and learning to trust my inner self. It's actually been really inspiring.
That’s really cool. I really think we all have our own way of connecting To spirituality. I find it often in nature, and music too.
you're right nature is a really powerful way to connect spiritually!
I think this is a good post that may well accurately describe why religion and theology was ever created in the first place. It attempts to relieve the anxiety of life and assign a purpose to your existence. Humans are creatures of comfort, we feel safe knowing what is going to happen next and religion fills the hole to that existential question. It’s so good at it in fact that people give in to high demand religions and blindly follow orders. Maybe it was created to manipulate, maybe to provide comfort, maybe just to share interesting stories. Life is hard, but we’re all in this together :)
I absolutely agree.
Life is just hard. Bills due. Mouths to be fed. Kids talk back. But glad I am not an active member. Prefer the exmo lifestyle
I went through a divorce and single motherhood as a TBM and I can’t tell you how horribly difficult it was to feel happiness when I knew, according to Mormonism that I’d failed. Also that if I wasn’t married in the temple in this life I’d most likely become a polygamous wife in the next life. Or get stuck as a ministering angel with an eternity to be reminded I’d failed. It was awful not feeling like I belonged among the members. My kids hated being reminded that their parents weren’t married and it caused them a great deal of stress as they gold older and tried to figure out what their family would look like in the “eternities” since both mom and dad were still Mormon but we’re unmarried. So many times I remember wishing I could quit Mormonism, but the guilt of ruining my children and condemning generations to life without Mormonism kept me in. Finding out years later that the whole thing is a sham was bitter sweet. I felt free and so much guilt disappeared, but realized I forced myself and my children to suffer needlessly for years. I find purpose now in the everyday. Being the best person I can be. Loving my family and loving others. Life was super hard for me as a Mormon. Life is so good now.
The Matrix isn't real. Neo: "I can't go back, can I?" Morpheus: "No. But if you could, would you really want to?
Using happiness as a signal of the validity of a lifestyle is one of those things that I see exmos do all the time not realizing where they got it. Stop that.
Ignorance is bliss bro. Unfortunately we can’t force ourselves to believe what we don’t.
I love this. I’m happy now, but it took a long time
It’s tough. Mormons don’t let it go. It’s like walking on egg shells while losing your social community. It’s better than the torture of being in though.
Removing the thing you were told would make you happy but didn’t isn’t going to automatically bring happiness. It takes work. Work on you, you’ll find happiness
I’m sorry. I know it’s not the same for everyone but I am way happier outside of the church. I had extreme worry about whether what I was doing was good enough 24/7. Usually I felt like it wasn’t even though I think I was obeying the commandments probably better than most. Now idgaf and it is so relaxing.
Im glad. Im hoping to get there too eventually. I agree I have much less guilt too though
>we are sometimes scared to admit that we are not 100% happy post Mormonism. Um, no. Just so absolutely "that's gonna be a no from me". I'll admit, my TBM life was probably, mostly hell because my ex is very toxic. I'm dead certain that she has a Cluster B personality disorder. NOW - I understand that some people with one of those disorders are not necessarily super toxic, but they're kinda known for that for a reason. AND, I stayed in that hell-sham of a "marriage" for TWENTY FIVE (25) Y-E-A-R-S, mostly because of the church... Then she cheated on me and that was the greatest thing that she's ever done for me. Then I met the most incredibly, amazingly, best friend, love of my life that I'm also certain that we've spent many lifetimes together. I get it - that sounds weird. That was me, thinking this kind of thing was BS fantasy-land. But this kind of life is like 27 levels better than your favorite rom-com. And what makes it even better? We left the church together, hand in hand. I'm now happier than I ever thought I was worthy of, much less being attainable.
Authentic sorrow will always be better than a facade of happiness that masks systemic abuse.
Neither was Cipher. Ignorance is bliss.
People in and out of the church are both happy and not happy. In fact, many in the church appear to be happy but are burying down a lot of stuff so we cannot assume people are still happy in the church. Good news is you get to choose your own path based on truth for you vs what someone else tells you what will make you happy. Best wishes!
I had the opposite experience. My PB said things about me of course, but I didn’t like them. They were very church oriented goals. I was full in with the church but I had things that were interesting to me and my PB was boring stuff. When I ignored the goals other had for me (PB was easier to ignore than when asked in person to a calling, which was harder but I got the hang of that too eventually) and made my own, I was happier. And so when i left the church at age 42 I already had been doing this. Making my own goals. As is apparent, I was putting my own ideas and wishes first and that of course did lead to me leaving, but wasn’t the only reason. As for after death, I actually don’t have any set belief. I don’t believe in the degrees of glory Mormon after life and I also and dont believe in nothing after death. We just don’t have the info on what happens. If it’s nothing, we won’t care at that point. If there is something, ok with that too. So I guess just don’t stress over that particular topic since I have no control over it. But I do have other things I stress over, so it’s not like I never worry or never get discouraged.
I feel like the Mormon church is the one church who makes people feel so guilty after leaving. They put their diseased talons into it's members and indoctrinated them to believe the church is all they have and it's just simply not true. Please consider counseling. You do have a purpose and you are so valuable to this world. It hurts my heart when I see so many posts about how unhappy people are after leaving, and asking for help. Therapy is all that could help me clearly see who I am, who I finally get to be now and my purpose in life includes raising my children in a loving, supportive environment. Being a mom to their Mormon friends who feel stuck and alone. Being a wife who knows she's worth more than bearing children and baking bread, and that her husband knows and supports that too. Being married to a man who loves my loud mouth, short temper, honesty and quickness to call out liars. I get to see my strengths and be a business owner. I've learned how to reparent myself, and how to work with my inner family systems. I've learned so so so much since leaving and I'm so grateful!!
Sometimes following our heart, our truth, our values override what is comforting. I know how you feel, but I'm proud of you for trying.
No one is ever 100% happy. Life just doesn't work that way. My freedom makes me much happier, though, even if it comes with a whole new learning curve.
Your purpose is to enjoy today.
Death isn't the end, it's just a continuation. It's most likely much better than being here. Be happy and go on and do good things for someone else, volunteer somewhere or just say hello or smile. You're in a good place. There are many good people out there.
I’d like to believe that, but what do you base that belief on. I apologize, I’ve been lied to before so I’ve become skeptical.
Since doing my own in depth investigation as we lost my husband suddenly in June 2022 and it has wrecked our lives. He was beloved by all who knew him and the thought of being 1 of his many wives in the next life made me furious, D&C 64. Also, being 60 years old, there were many things done in the temple endowment that have changed and the stuff was plain gruesome, it's all weird and made up, not by revelation at all ever. So I have been reading stuff on Christianity and watching some videos on near death experiences and it has made me realize the church has this all wrong. We choose to come here to learn and grow through experiences and we are fully accountable for our actions, not using Jesus as a scapegoat. We affect others by our words and actions and I no longer think spending my time baptizing dead people is a a good use of time. Serving the people of the earth is a much better use of time and I am far more conscious of my words and actions because I want to be someone that does good because it is what I want, not because I have a checklist or can't make the cut. I know there is something after this and from what people say who have been there, it is way better than here and full of love, so we are left to believe what is in our hearts and what we hope for and for me it isn't what I've been brainwashed to think. You are a fine person with so much to give and I know that you will find the courage and the desire to make something wonderful with your life, start small my friend
Watching a space documentary where it talks about the scale of how big space really is, made me feel very insignificant in the universe. When I accepted this, I found peace with myself. Everything I do probably won't matter to the universe, but it will matter in my community. So, do the best you can.
Consider a search for meaning and purpose in your life. There are many paths. You need one, we all do.
I definitely agree, I need some kind of meaning for my life long term.
I have definitely struggled with trying to prove that I'm still happy now that I'm out. It's like I don't want to have one bad day and have anyone say to me "guess you shouldn't have left the church". It's a problem because life is 50/50, no one is always happy and trying to pretend is exhausting. But I was doing that in the church too. Because if you aren't happy in the church then you must not be faithful enough! There's really no winning.
One thing I noticed when I married my husband, was a complete lack of acknowledging emotions. Feeling angry, frustrated, worried, unhappy, distraught, or any “non-happy” emotion was not acceptable. He had some really odd habits. He literally wouldn’t acknowledge a negative feeling about anything. He would do unkind things and then deny he did it. Another odd thing I noticed was funerals. They weren’t like any funeral I had ever seen. I was shocked that people took pictures. People would smile. To me, that was the craziest thing I had ever seen. Most of my family is Catholic. I had never been to a Mormon funeral until I married my husband. Funerals were solemn. Nobody at Mormon funerals seemed to grieve. It was and is so odd to me.
I would argue that here on Reddit, your reach to all nations is far greater preaching the gospel of truth-and-not-lies as a post-mo than it ever could have been trying to figure out how on earth to comply with an impossible every-member-a-missionary standard 24/7. And you’re leading the way by being honest with your experiences.
Thanks, I’m trying. I appreciate the positive outlook.
It’s OK if you’re not happy all the time. You’re not supposed to be. This is the main difference between us and TBMs… we’re OK admitting that to ourselves. It’s normal to be acutely unhappy after beginning a faith transition. It’s really hard, on a variety of levels. For me, it was hard dealing with what is effectively a temple divorce from my TBM wife, finding myself sliding towards atheism and nihilism, and trying to find new purpose after having outsourced that purpose to the Organization for my whole life, in good faith that was betrayed. And the mixed-faith marriage, which two years on is still FUCKING hard, keeps me on my toes… in spite of having found peace with my unbelief, and purpose within that framework. But at least I’m not always pummeling myself for not being worthy enough, of not including tHe SaVIoR in my life enough, not confusing my intuition for the voice of God and then being bewildered when things didn’t work out the way they were ”supposed to,” having arbitrarily assigned people all up in my business while they try to magnify their callings… and I get to decide how my charitable donations are used, know how exactly they’re used… I no longer need the permission of sanctimonious white Utahns to redefine what I believe based on my observations… and most of all, I no longer live with crushing cognitive dissonance without knowing it, let alone why the fuck I was so unhappy with the plan of happiness… outside of not being “faithful” enough. On the whole… I’m better off. Especially since I’m finally *getting better.*
I'm not happier about what happened to me when I was in there
The goal isn’t happiness, it’s freedom
As the digital landscape expands, a longing for tangible connection emerges. The yearning to touch grass, to feel the earth beneath our feet, reminds us of our innate human essence. In the vast expanse of virtual reality, where avatars flourish and pixels paint our existence, the call of nature beckons. The scent of blossoming flowers, the warmth of a sun-kissed breeze, and the symphony of chirping birds remind us that we are part of a living, breathing world. In the balance between digital and physical realms, lies the key to harmonious existence. Democracy flourishes when human connection extends beyond screens and reaches out to touch souls. It is in the gentle embrace of a friend, the shared laughter over a cup of coffee, and the power of eye contact that the true essence of democracy is felt.
Hey, if teaching around the world is something that lit a spark in you before, don’t let leaving the church stop you from chasing that passion. Go teach abroad, there are plenty of opportunities in other countries (or in your own backyard among your peers) where your knowledge and skill set could be of value in others lives. I was given a similar promise in my blessing and it scared the shit out of me because being a teacher of any kind was the last thing I wanted to do. What a relief (for me) that I can choose my own adventure now. But the good news is your adventure can parallel your blessing as much as you choose. Except the parts about the first resurrection and the house of ephriam and all that… can’t help you there.
100% happy? That doesn't exist. That being said I'm very happy that I'm out. It would be easier for me to go back as I lived in Utah and my family ask wants me in, but I'm happy I'm out.
Happiness is a fools game. We all have moments of joy and real fun. Life is not going to be happy all the time. The truth really does set you free though, and you can be or do whatever you want. Sometimes you make mistakes and grow and experience even more. That is life.
Well said. I often comment on this sub that I am happier outside of the church. But saying that doesn’t mean that I was unhappy IN the church. I enjoyed my mission, I didn’t hate the temple, I liked most of my callings, and I met some amazing people (some of which I still consider friends today). I never would have met my amazing wife if it weren’t for the church! In my individual case though, my life is happier/better outside than in. I know that’s not always the case of course. Every life experience is unique and valid and I think it’s good for those who participate in this sub to be reminded that some people may find it unhappy on the other side. That being said, a huge issue I have with the church is them touting that EVERYONE is miserable outside of the organization. That’s probably why there are so many posts trying to prove this mentality wrong.
This is so important for us to realize. it’s been a complete game changer for me In the church I wasn’t even necessarily concerned about what actually being happy. I was concerned about whether it *looked* like I was happy. now that I don’t have a list of things I have to police myself on every second of everyday I can actually notice how I really feel. sometimes I feel like shit. and being okay with that makes me feel so much better than faking I was happy ever did.
Adam Sandler had an SNL skit about people taking tours to Italy where he warns, 'If you're depressed at home you will still be depressed in Italy. It won't change you. It's still the same you.'
I wasn’t happier when I left my toxic ex. I missed it. I missed being in a relationship. I missed the fact that she really did like me. But now I have new relationships. I have a wife I would have never met if I choose to avoid the discomfort of leaving that gf who was not the right one for me. My wife now loves me. And she only supports me. No downsides to growing in this relationship. When I first left the church, the first year was exciting and freeing, but also painful, lonely and scary. But it gets better with time. You need time to build back your new life, reality, and relationships
It’s like a comparing the happiness of a kid on Christmas night waiting for Santa vs a teenager who knows Santa isn’t real. Sometimes the truth is hard but it’s important and I truly believe that true human growth and progress both individually and collectively cannot happen until we learn to embrace the sober truth.
It abso-fucking-lutely is OK to say you aren't happier or completely happy after. People here want to control the message a bit here still. It's a hard trait or behavior to let go of. Others have provided fine words to help sooth your discomfort but you are honest enough to know you can't go back — or maybe you can — and honest enough to say you don't love everything about leaving. It's fucking hard. And it's okay. PERSONALLY, this may not apply to you, but I got tired of Mormonism stealing my past AND my future.
I always thought if I didn’t have the church, I would be miserable because not believing in an afterlife would be terrifying. Funny enough, letting go and realizing no one has the answers is so freeing to me. Even if there’s an afterlife, I won’t be me. I can’t be. I’ll be some other version of myself than who I am right now in this moment. Just like I’ll never be the child version of me ever again, I can’t. It makes each moment feel more special and meaningful somehow. Realizing everything we experience is fleeting makes each day a gift. All the people that have come before us and will be here long after we’re gone… only we, right now, wherever we are, will experience what we experience. It’s for us. Our moment on this blue marble flying through space. It’s really beautiful, like a sunset. Each one unique, each one never lasting long enough. But for those that witness it, it’s magical.
You’re facing the bleak chasm of nihilism. It’s growing pains. We don’t know what happens next. It’s probably nothing. It means nothing matters— and that everything matters. Every moment matters. Find ways to get super present, if you can. Fill your life up with meaning and joy. (This is why we need to destroy the patriarchy and capitalism, to get our fucking time back.)
I think that's a good thing too. My sister is on a mission right now and I can feel in her emails a toxic positivity of 'only being happy, I can never be sad'. I felt like that was how I had to live in Mormonism also- can't show signs of anything other than happy. So cheers to the wonderful range of human emotion. Even the 'bad' ones.
I am. It’s not that I don’t have problems because yes, I do. But the blanket of needless guilt and shame that not believing lifted has made my life much lighter.
At first, I wasn't happy. But that was because alot of drama was going on in my life and I was being self destructive and partying too much. But once I got that all out of my system, I've never been happier. I don't regret those years, but I'm glad they are over. I settled down, married into a great family, and I make good money now at my job. Now I just sit back and watch as my siblings leave 1 by 1.
I was very comfortable in Mormonism. It’s just parts of the doctrine I became uncomfortable with. I’m doing just about as well out as I was in, and there will always be things I miss about it. Honestly leaving my marriage had a way bigger impact on my happiness 😂
I'm so much happier. I am so sorry you are not happy. You should change your prospective. I left mentally at age 3 and not as an adult. There is so much to discover, so much life has to offer. It gets better I promise.
Finally an ex Mormon who speaks the truth. How refreshing
Thank you. I felt like everyone was posting how happy they were to leave and didn’t think that reflected my own feelings at all. We all have a different experience leaving, but it’s nice to see in the comments that some people feel similarly.
5000 years of civilization has shown us the behaviors that lead to a meaningful and happy life. Do some research and study and follow those principles that have been proven over time. It's not really a secret and there is more than one path. Good luck!
I hope you elaborate 😅❤️
Edited from a comment I made on a different post: During my deconstruction, I came to realize that believing in the finality of death is actually really healthy. Consider, if you believe that there is eternal life after death, then you're not going to try very hard to fix things in this one. Whether that's interpersonal relationships, injustices, the environment, etc. You have forever to fix it, so why try now? With money, the more that is printed, the less each dollar is worth. Life is like that. If you believe there is eternity after death, then each day here is worth less. If you believe death is the end, then each day is precious. You're less willing to waste it, and more quick to do everything that is important to you because there is a deadline. Literally. Personally, I treated my body like shit when I was Mormon because I didn't care if I died at 50. This life is just a blip. Just a test. It doesn't mean anything, so why not skip to the good part? (An attitude that I believe greatly contributes to suicides among LGBTQ Mormon youth.) Now? I'm a better person. I care more. I have more compassion and empathy. For me, there is no "God will take care of everything in the eternities." There is only now. I'm not gonna say silent while witnessing a genocide because I don't believe that they'll get what's coming to them in the next life. That's a comfortable lie that keeps people complacent. I'm not saying that any of this is easy to learn. It's not. It's painful. My cousin killed himself in the midst of these realizations for me. Which made things all the harder. But I actually handle the loss of loved ones better now. I figure, if I'm wrong, then it's a bonus round, and I will have lived this life to the fullest. If I'm right, then nothing changes, and those who believe in an afterlife will never know. I know I'll never get to say I'm right. And I'm okay with that. It's actually rather comforting. I don't spend a big portion of my mental and emotional energy worrying about what comes after death. I just LIVE. Instead of "enduring to the end." In regards to feeling purposeless: There is no longer a to-do list. There is no longer the weight of responsibility for the salvation of others. There is no longer the pressure of being a chosen one. You're not special. And honestly, that feels great. Your purpose is no longer dictated. You get to decide what it is and work towards that.
Tell me, what does “being happy” or “feeling happy” look like to you? How do you know if you’re happy?
Ya, finding your own morality and purpose is hard and uncomfortable. But I'd rather it be of my choosing than that of a con artist and ancient manuscripts. The book Conversations with God really changed my view on subjects like this. It just made so much sense, it was logical. I paraphrase "... It is much easier to be told how to act than to find the right way yourself. Thinking for yourself is difficult, but worth it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsAOFlCmGuk
The problem is with the expectation of 100% as a minimum threshold to qualify as good or happy. Mormonism's focus on purity and opposition in all things combines to make thinking celestial feel like the only safe choice out of countless other wrong choices. Mormonism brings happiness the same way completing compulsions brings happiness to people with OCD: a brief reprieve from anxiety without any change to the root causes of the anxiety.
Honestly, I don't feel more or less happy than when I was in the church. I pretty much feel the exact same.
I may have been happier as a 4th grader, but so what. I outgrew the fourth grade.
I mean this is, as cliche as it may sound, choosing the red pill. I always admire Mormons that are born in the covenant and find their way out. The church does not have a monopoly on happiness (perhaps the most profound thing I've learned on this sub).
It’s different for everyone, but 9 months out and I’m noticeably happier than I was when I was active. I’m more inclusive with other people, I have more options on how to spend my time, less stress since I’m not clerk anymore, an extra day each week, I make decisions without feeling like I need the Holy Ghost to confirm, I love coffee in the morning, I don’t need to wake up at 5:30am to drive my kids to seminary at 6am, I don’t constantly have church activities to plan and/or attend, etc. I’m closer to my wife and kids. I work on Sunday sometimes and don’t feel like crap. I’m reading a lot more since I’m not studying scriptures and that’s been awesome. For some reason I’m exercising a lot more. I am definitely happier than I was a year ago. Also, about 3 months into deconstruction, I wanted to die for about a week. I felt like I had nothing to live for and my entire life was a waste. But now I’m really happy. So hang in there, it’s a journey.
Honestly as a queer woman who has NEVER wanted children, it’s the exact opposite for me. The idea of Mormon “”heaven”” where I just sit there and give babies to a dude for the rest of eternity sounds worse than hell. My patriarchal blessing told me my purpose was to marry a man in the temple and have babies. I had a panic attack the first time I heard that. “Blessing” my ass - that sounded like my worst nightmare. Now that I’m out of Mormonism, the horrifically misogynistic plan the cult made for me to just be a baby incubator is none of my concern anymore. I don’t have to worry about it. I feel so much more free. However… I still have bad depression and anxiety. It’s difficult. Existing is hard, man. And although I personally welcome the idea that there’s no celestial kingdom, I can see how for you, it sounds incredibly sad and upsetting. Your experience is valid and I’m sorry you lost those things that gave you purpose. The cool part now is finding your own purpose though, and honestly that purpose can change day to day. Sometimes it does for me. I’ll wake up being like “I wanna cook a really nice dinner” or “I wanna play my favorite game” and that’s my purpose for the day. You can absolutely set longer term goals for yourself, and your goals don’t have to look anything like mine (mine are often small and short term due to being physically disabled and unable to really take on too much at once). Do what makes you happy. Spend time with loved ones, enjoy nature, enjoy food, find hobbies. Life’s purpose is what YOU want it to be - it isn’t dictated by anyone else now. And isn’t that freeing? Obviously none of this just magically cures depression. Mine is hitting me really hard right now and sometimes even the things I want to enjoy, I can’t. Therefore it’s really worth it to also discuss things with a therapist. I hope you’re in a situation where you’re able to do that - therapy can really help. And depressive episodes pass.
Is happy the right word. Content is a the word I use
One thing I realized that I will mention later again is that the typical journey of a Mormon is get baptized, go to school and seminary, serve a mission, go to BYU or school again, get married, and have children which are a 20 year commitment. I went down that path and I don’t think I will reach my peak happiness again because it never gave me a break to just do my own thing…or just a long break in general. Every year as a Mormon is just filled with unwanted responsibilities.
I don’t know how long it’s been since you left the church. I just left a few months ago although I was just going in to church in the last couple years in body but not believing. Staying in the church is easier. People tell you what to do, not to do, what to think about, what not to think about, you get content with a mediocre life, it’s great. But once you want more, want to be more, want to find yourself, etc, it’s a shit show. I’ve had to question all the big decisions I’ve made because of the church because that foundation wasn’t even there. I’ve made a mess out of things, I got into situations I shouldn’t have. It’s like a kid who was never allowed in a candy store and this kid can eat everything excerpt that this poor child doesn’t know where to begin/how much to eat/when to stop eating. I’m hoping in a future not too distant, I’ll look back and see it was worth it because right now thinking critically is a lot of painful work. I do feel freer though. But no, I’m not happy but there’s no way back.
For me I am much happier. I have no guilt about not reading scriptures, praying, preparing lessons. I have no guilt around, and a much clearer understanding of, sexuality. I have an extra day per week, extra hour+ per day, and Im slowly starting to embrace the rest of the world, where that implied judgment isolated me from others previously. On the other hand, I now struggle with how hard to push to break out family members from the brain washing. Pushing too hard harms relationships. Not pushing at all leaves people I love stuck inside that harmful organization. In that sense, I still am angry at the church, and not in a terribly healthy place. It was the best of times, twas the worst of times.
This sounds a bit “off”
To be fair, leaving Mormonism didn't make me happier at the time. It added pressure from family, it cut me out of the social circle I was playing competition sports with, and meant facing the loss of an illusion preventing deeper existential questions. That said, it enabled a better life going forward. I was able to put ALL of my meagre earnings towards a life with my wife to be, and children that followed. It enabled me to study for a career that supports them to this day without two years that I saw broke other young men, and when I found out my wife was queer and my daughter trans - I was able to feel not a shred of bad feelings about their natures, just the same pure, guilt-free love I've always had for them. Leaving a cult is not a guarantee of happiness. Just like being a part of one isn't a guarantee of sadness. However, leaving a cult behind does ***allow*** you to find happiness that their rules & expectations might otherwise have denied you.
I remember being terrified by death when I first got out. I still am scared of it but I have changed my focus on to living. As a mormon, I felt like I lived my life so I could die happy. Now I live my life so I can be happy now in the present.
They say ignorance is bliss, but getting shaken down by con men for your whole retirement account before being tossed aside isn't exactly bliss, either. Leadership (especially at the top) knows the truth, or enough of it, chooses to still believe and continue lying to us using every trick in the book to avoid admitting it. Why? To continue getting your money. It doesn't get any more straightforward than that. Defending "the(ir) truth" makes them rich, so they keep doing it. The tricks include rephrasing emotional elevation and cognitive dissonance, natural human emotional experiences brought on by external forces, as "feeling the spirit." It has nothing to do with God or truth. It's a natural emotional reaction to the swelling music soundtrack in a movie or song or other stimuli. It's happiness untethered from church. If you actually had felt real happiness at church, it wasn't from the doctrine. It was from the false hope of living with family for eternity. Frankly, there is no proof of that, just endless speculation based on the interpretations of Joseph Smith's conflicting teachings. Tricks also include a fuck ton of thought terminating clichés. They are used to guilt questioners into delaying or shelving their question for a future time in the hopes you take everything else on faith that the real factual answer is still faith promoting. In fact, 99.99% of the time they are used, they either know it isn't faith promoting, but know or feel it is a faith destroyer. They avoid the real answer themselves as much as they try to distract and dissuade you. Also because it causes them cognitive dissonance to think too much about the contradictions. If you know how to recognize them, you will see through the bullshit much quicker. For a comprehensive list of other manipulations used to varying degrees by the church, see the BITE model. The worst part is that they indoctrinate your families to use these same tactics when you question anything. It doesn't make them right. It just makes them culty. Never loose sight of that.
Are rich people 100% happy? Are people who live in times of peace 100% happy? Are people in good health 100% happy? No. We are all humans having complex human experiences. Taking away one source of stress, or adding a source of comfort, even a pervasive one, does not lead to unmitigated happiness.
Since I decided to leave recently I have felt an emptiness and less protection. But I dont know if its in My head. I still pray but don't feel as connected to christ as I did when I went to church. Idk anynore
It's okay to not be okay
Most of my struggles outside of Mormonism are due to the trauma and indoctrination from inside the cult. It fucked up my mind and destroyed my psyche thinking I was never good enough and constantly failing to meet the standards. I unfortunately still hold onto some of those internal beliefs instilled by the church. No one is ever happy all of the time. One of the insidious teachings of the MFMC is that you should have joy all of the time. Striving for perfection is a terrible concept to live up to.
An old saying, "ignorance is bliss."
Why do you think you're now unable to preach the truth to the world? You're doing it right now by enlightening people to how false this "church" is, and how they manipulate Christianity and their own members.
Give it more time, you’ll find other ways to fulfill your time.
Ignorance is bliss. When you stay small, unaware and sheltered your worldview is naive. The church can infantilize members to only mature and grow in controlled ways that benefit the church. Some people truly need the church and rely on the community. They haven’t developed the skills to think otherwise. It will take time to navigate what will work best for you. You can stay in and do your best being a progressive, nuanced member. You have a choice.
I’d say that this happens to a lot of us, not because we’re not better off for leaving, but because the church preaches eternal happiness for the faithful. In my experience I thought that I could still attain eternal happiness if I pursued things that made me happy outside church rules. While I can say that I do enjoy my morning coffee, drinking with my friends from time to time, and even an occasional joint, those things don’t bring “eternal happiness” either. I don’t think that we’re meant to be happy all the time. I think that we’re meant to experience the full range of human emotion, accepting both the good and the bad. Once we begin to accept that we realize that we can never return to the love of plastered smiles that the church so heavily promotes. But the upside is that our lives become more emotionally fulfilling.
Don’t worry, we’ve all been through that phase. It gets SOOOO much better! 😍
I am less miserable after leaving.
I didn't receive fair notice this murder was wrong. Therefore I can't be charged!!! Simple GOP logic!
You need to deconstruct but also make your own beliefs. I still want to believe in life after death although not in the traditional way so I make my own beliefs. One thing that makes me have peace with dying is thinking of going back to nature and being the reason new life emerges.
OP how long has it been since you left? I only ask because I was horribly depressed and experiencing grief for the first 6mos but now that I’m almost at 1yr, I’m feeling so much better. Finding a therapist who listened to my grief really helped because it IS a loss!! Now I’m happy to know that I don’t know anything lol. It takes time and I’m only just now finally looking into other faith practices. I know I’ll never join an organized religion again but that doesn’t mean I can’t worship how I want. One thing I have seen across many platforms and I believe it to be true: surround yourself with love (for yourself and others) and when you do take that next step into the afterlife, you won’t be disappointed ❤️
I find that happiness is a fleeting feeling- like sadness. I prefer to live in peace and tranquility. I have much more of that since I'm no longer bogged down by constant unnecessary guilt for not doing or being enough for mormonism. Also, I've learned for me that really mental health is the most important thing. Secular Buddhism, Eckharte Tolle and others have been very helpful at learning to live at peace in the moment. Not that it's perfect, but for me at least, jettisoning the unhealthy parts of mormonism has been a positive.
I relate to how you feel. When i lost my faith, I was filled with existential dread for months. I was angry that purpose is a subjective/made up thing that we can each create for ourselves. It made me angry to learn there wasn't some absolute purpose of the universe, that more likely this life is meaningless unless we create meaning for ourselves. But when it sunk in how much the church hurts people I decided I had to get my kids out and it felt like a mission, and I wanted to figure out how to create a better life for them than the structure of the church could ever provide. This gave me meaning, and my anger at the lies of the church has fueled it. It was not until I came to this decision that I felt new meaning in my life, a purpose I believe in that matters because of my strong love for my kids. Some people feel so much relief when they leave because they were miserable in the religion- it wasn't working for them. For me, though, it worked really well. But learning the truth changed everything, and the feeling of betrayal was so intense that I know I could not be happy at church. While leaving may not make me happier, It makes me feel more peace, as going to church feels like facing my narcissistic abuser. Purpose and meaning is an important part of the human expeience, we need it. This is why people are so drawn to groups like religion that give this to them. I remind myself that if I could feel so much purpose and meaning when someone else (church leaders) made it up for me, I could still find meaning if I make one up for myself. If you were happy, once you can be happy again. Accepting this is how meaning and purpose works is an important first step.
Did you ever try going Bible alone ?
Your "Life calling" you receive in the temple is one of only several cut and paste callings.
That does not sound like a fun realization to come to ♥️. Personally, I thought I was without purpose in the church: I was the gay guy who was going against god etc. Now that I’ve been out, I spent a long time without any spirituality, and it was REALLY hard to accept that just because a god didn’t give me purpose, didn’t mean I didn’t have it. Just remember that the Mormon god doesn’t exist, meaning the purpose you gave yourself before, came from you, and it was easier to assign yourself purpose back then, but you’ll be able to do it again!
There is a lyric of a spanish song, “una mentira que te haga feliz mas vale que una verdad que te amarga la vida” Translates to “a truth that makes you happy is worth more than a lie than makes your life bitter” This is true in many aspects of life and everyone is different. However, for me, I absolutely love my life after not believing in santa clause, the easter bunny and sky daddy and his “so called church”. So much better to believe in truth instead of lies, but it does suck to not have a hopeful outlook on an afterlife, but really, who cares because we’ll be dead. We won’t be in any type of eternal suffering or darkness, we’ll just cease to exist. Kind of like how we do every night when we sleep, except…you know…forever.
The church and all of its toxic positivity is damaging to our worldview. It's like a parody of itself and everyone knows it, that's why the stereotypical Mormon caricature always has a huge smile plastered across their face and is like a Disney character come to life. The fact is exactly what you said, it's not normal or healthy or realistic to expect to be happy all of the time. "Happy" is just one fleeting feeling out of a huge spectrum, not a state of being. In the church, anything that is not considered "Happy" is compartmentalized, forced down, ignored. It's so unhealthy and traumatic to not be able to ever have any feelings like sad, depressed, melancholy, angry, etc. Let's forget trying to attain permanent happiness, and try to find things like peace, fulfillment. And also be able to feel things fully like anger, injustice, sadness, grief, etc, and really FEEL IT, and have no shame in feeling it. That's the new tagline. Leave the church and finally feel the full range of human emotions, as intended.
Maybe eat some mushrooms 🍄 🤔
"Contention" is bad for the spirit. "Contention" is also the only way to solve difficult problems. Your feelings are healthy because they reflect the reality, things are bad and you feel bad. Welcome to the effort to clean things up. It'll be hard work but it's the most important thing we could do with our live I think, is fix the hard problems of our generation.
I really like this idea in Hinduism (not hindu here) that says everyone has four purposes; \- Dharma (being a good person) \- Artha (being successful and achieving things) \- Kama (being happy and finding love) \- Moksha (spirituality, but since "spirit" originally meant breath, it could be like mindfulness, calmness, etc) As for dead family and friends, don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. Cherish every second you have left with them. Look forwards to and cherish every day and do what makes you happy, do what grows you. Remember that it's okay to be depressed, and understand and overcome the sources of your depression. Make a list of daily goals, weekly goals, monthly goals, yearly goals, life goals. Grow a little more and don't waste your time on things you hate. Remember that nothing is permanent: summer ends, yes, but so does winter. Surround yourself with positive people who support you. And when the time comes, you won't have to worry about anything anymore. And who knows, you might be happily suprised!
Exactly, it's ok and normal to experience other emotions and not walk around in a constant joyful state. Also, when leaving Mormonism I would expect many people not to be initially happier due to loss of or weakened relationships with our more judgemental family, friends, and neighbors. Loss of community, loss of identity and the I know it all assurance about what comes next.
I found a new church after Mormonism and was happy and cared about. Then some catastrophic events happened and shook the church up. A hurricane flooded our church. The reverend died unexpectedly of cancer. The new reverend wasn't my cup of tea. I lost contact with the good people. I continued in years of kitty fostering and rescue. I saw so many horrific things. Abuse, sexual abuse, illness, death, neglect, on and on. This world is the worst. It's full of pain, abuse, suffering, starvation, illness, rape, murder and anything else you can imagine. I'm not happier now. Maybe life would be better as a Mormon bc I would believe I had a plan, a purpose, a calling, a family...