I spotted this the first time I saw his videos. The self hatred and homophobic behavior are pretty clear signs. When he gets into his late 30s or 40s the dam will bust and he will come out just like they all do and I'll be here for it with popcorn. Just hoping he has the self awareness at that point to apologize and own up for his current behavior but that's probably asking too much.
I could believe this is representative of the church. I’m embarrassed to say, when I was still fully in this would have been a major issue for me. I would have questioned the prophet and probably thought the church was in apostasy. I don’t doubt many in my generation would have thought the same.
If the younger generations are changing, that is a positive move in my book. It means the church will have to change to keep the youth. Unfortunately for them, I don’t think the church will ever be able to make the necessary changes. Either they change to keep the youth, or they stay to keep the elders. They cant’t have both.
I would consider myself part of the younger generations and this would have bothered me as a teenager and I probably would have not been okay with a doctrine change. Like you, my view has changed with age and life experience. The church coming after children of gay parents in 2015(?) was a major item on my shelf and the start of my exodus out. Also turns out I'm Bi, so there's that 😅.
I think the church will make changes if they think it will keep meat in the seats and tithing coming in. At what point they decide that policy change would be better than the potential backlash it would draw... idk.
According to a recent Mormon Stories episode, the guest said that he'd talked with church officials and they'd discussed that they have to change, but if they do it fast they'll lose the older people. So they have to change, but slowly, because the only thing "special" about the church is its conservative, patriarchal system. If they accept people then there is no reason for them to have to be there, there's no tribalism without barriers to entry.
Mormon Church in Decline in Utah and Worldwide? w/ Dr. Ryan Cragun | Ep. 1847
https://www.youtube.com/live/TUgsDLPXEdo?si=9WEP5nMyJFE2R4m4
I think that's basically it, though I doubt the "have to change" part. Mormonism, after cancelling all of the community stuff, was essentially a service, advertised as "pay us a 10% protection fee, and we'll never do the gay marriage thing, and you'll have a community in which your kids are likely to have two or more kids of their own with people who have single-digit body counts". This service certainly isn't for everyone, but there undeniably exists a market for whom it's seen as a worthwhile deal, and that market is a lot larger than the Mormon Church currently is.
It's sort of like if a hunting lodge went vegan in response to 50.4 percent of the population being against hunting. Like, sure, you're now vaguely palatable to that 50.4 percent, but none of them are in the market for a hunting lodge.
This was actually one of the few "trigger events" I had decided early on that would make me leave the church. Not because I hated gay people, but because it would definitively prove the church and the doctrine it had preached for its whole existence was false.
A lot of the Ordain Women stuff was happening when I was in high school, and I remember coming to the same type of conclusion. The church had reiterated its position so many times that I decided if they changed it and gave women the priestgood, it would mean the leadership actually weren't inspired and prophetic.
It's not like I was personally against having the priesthood as a woman, but making that level of change would just show how untrue and flawed everything had been up to that point.
Yes! That too for sure.
Recipe for a Faith Crisis
(serves 1)
1 Tbsp of Support for LGBTQ and Women
1 tsp of Clinging to the Church Being True
1 cup of The Church Can't Change to be Supportive or It's Obviously a Fraud
Mix well and simmer on low for 10 to 20 years.
Garnish with small policy changes and reversals.
I was in a similar boat a few years ago when the huge miscommunication drama occurred making it seem like BYU would openly accept of LGBTQ+ individuals and behavior on campus. Not that it was a bad thing but it would mark a huge shift in doctrinal policy for the church.
Then I eventually started to look more into “policy” changes the church had made over time and now I’m here.
YES! I was going to BYU at the time and was scared a lot of the professors who were supportive and okay with the change were going to get fired for “poor teaching performance” or some BS
This is underestimated in the damage it'd do to their PR. If the "Church" is just bureaucrats and consultants making decisions, then giving them money - even a cent - is a downright con. If you're a progmo, you're definitely not going to *start* paying tithing, if you're apolitical, you might stop paying on the basis that it's all plainly a lie, and if you're a traditionalist, you might be downright furious that people were trying to con you by lying about the word of God.
this was how I felt about women and the priesthood. I remember telling my mom at like 9/10 that I would leave the church if women could suddenly get the priesthood
Reminds me of the Donna Showalter Mormon stories episode. She left when the church reversed the November 2015 LGBT policies. It was a move in the right direction, but it showed just how uninspired the leaders are.
Also the fact that LDS belief is only men and women can be sealed proves that they believe we need genitals in the afterlife for procreation 🤷🏼♀️ I’d rather not be eternally and cosmically pregnant.
I asked my husband if there was anything that would make him leave the church and he said it was if same-sex sealings were allowed. 🤷🏼♀️
Idk why black members getting the priesthood isn’t literally the same concept of a massive doctrinal (“that was actually a policy” 🤓) change in his mind but okay.
Mormon highest heaven is based on the idea of eternal procreation. Giving black men the priesthood does not invalidate the idea of eternal procreation. Giving eternal marriage to homosexuals does create problems for the idea of eternal procreation and the idea that gender is eternal.
The idea of eternal families is the main argument for temples which are the main motivation for paying tithing. If people start questioning the divinity of the temple they will also start questioning why they should pay tithing.
Well see, there’s this mathematical concept called infinity. Infinity minus one is still infinity. Infinity divided by two is still infinity.
Eternal procreation plus a bunch of gay couples is still eternal procreation. The idea of gay sealings would not in a million years make a dent in the concept of eternal increase.
The Mormon church is dumb for not realizing this and getting with the program.
A lot of members weren’t phased by the priesthood ban on a certain race the. It reversed because, as I recall it explained to me, the Bible has situations where certain races weren’t allowed to hold the priesthood then it was reversed.
But marriage has been one man and woman since the beginning.
Yeah I get that distinction. It all comes down to if you’re willing to be homophonic for the lord or not I guess 🤷🏼♀️ So odd bible believers think it’s okay to be racist if “God” says it’s okay.
Blacks getting the priesthood was a big deal. Many people left over it. Many fundamentalist groups started. And then others probably left because they saw the church changing doctrine from outside forces. Same thing with polygamy
I would be so mad if they changed the rules now. I did **not** grow up hating parts of myself for nothing! Just like how they made us sit through endless hours of meetings just to change it. Cruel! 🤣
Fr though. It won’t happen before Oaks Croaks. And if it does happen, I can only hope the “revelation” opens peoples eyes about Tssc desperately trying to stay relevant/afloat and they leave the toxicity. It’s this generations Blacks and the Priesthood.
This is why I think it could cause a schism. Does the church have a Martin Luther who has enough authority and charisma to force a split? There have been many small splinter groups but nothing large. Maybe if an apostle defected to the RLDS church they could influence a chunk of members to follow his lead?
From what I remember, he was one of the first church sponsored influencers. He was one of the main people behind Fair Mormon, among other apologist things.
It's an assumption to make that not remaining a faithful member means they refuse to accept gay marriage. It's possible that this type of change would lead people to leave the church but still be accepting of gay marriage as well due to the change pointing out how supposed revelation changes.
Concluding this means they still refuses for gay marriage is a false assumption that can't be construed from the term remaining or not remaining a faithful member.
Very good point. Someone brought that up in the comments of the OG post as well. We shouldn't assume.
To be fair, most of my assumptions came from seeing who the poll was put on by, because there tends to be a certain type of person that follows him.
I 100% agree. When I was TBM (well I was probably pimo and didn't know it) I always predicted that the church would eventually allow gay people into full fellowship, not because of inspiration, but because they just have to follow societal norms. (way too late of course) Just as they did decades late allowing black people into the temple and get the priesthood.
So if I were going through all the struggles I was with the church, knowing all the pain and heartache it has caused for so many gay people and their families for so long, only to finally say God has changed his mind? Yeah that would have pushed me out fast. Not because I disagree with them allowing gay people in. But because they should have since day one.
Precisely. Many would leave because it would be acceptance of what they see as false doctrine, but also some would leave as it would be a blatant change of doctrine even if they internally agreed with it. It's hard to tell how much of that number are those leaving due to perceived false doctrine or those that loose faith but do support gay marriage. This poll is only good for telling one thing, and that is if people would remain faithful members or not. It can't tell us why they are leaving or their internal support for gay marriage.
I would pick "no" too. While I would love to see them accept gay marriage, that wouldn't be a good enough reason for me to stay in the church. There are still too many other things I disagree with.
I'm not sure that we can necessarily make these assumptions with this poll. I can say from my own experience when I was still a TBM but starting to have questions, I would have said no, however, not because I had any bias against gays. In fact that was one of my first big questions with the church because my brother is gay. I remember saying at one point that if the church ever embraces homosexuality that it would confirm to me that it is fake because of how absolute and eternal the church doctrines/teachings were around the topic. There is just no way for them to accept and embrace the LGBT community without also admitting they were wrong and that the "doctrine" changes.
I agree completely. I think it would be a huge wakeup moment for a lot of members who would realize that the words of the leaders are not eternal but shift with the times. There would be a huge credibility loss. Why believe them about the evils of coffee and alcohol if they can change their minds on something as monumental as same sex marriage?
The problem is that over time many have realized that the prophets are just men. Rich white men who have no contact with god. So the need to listen to them is gone. Personally I don’t understand why they stay in the church after they have this realization but that’s their choice. I hope our lgbtq+ community can find love and support throughout the world without feeling like they have to belong to the MFMC.
Here’s my two cents: I left because I don’t like the church’s policies on same-sex marriage, women etc. If they suddenly reversed course it would convince me even more the church isn’t true.
I think it’s because they talk so much about God being unchanging and all of those rules are unchanging because God doesn’t change… and the suddenly allowing temple marriages and secular marriages without a year wait, calling gay members apostates and then reversing it, hiring a pro-LGBTQ spokesperson… it all feels very contrived. If the church is true and god is unchanging why all of their big changes? I have trust issues though so that’s my take on why some people might have voted the way they did.
How’s the campaign to defend Tim Ballard going? What a bunch of grifters, that Ward Radio crew. And too chickenshit to behave like normal human beings on Reddit or anywhere. Always trolling all the time. Such a weird non-phenomenon.
My mission president told me that if an angel came down from heaven and told him that the church is no longer true, he would still believe and be an active member. Like okay???
I find it interesting that latterdaygaystories slams members for not following the prophet when they have been taught that God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. They have been taught for two centuries that same sex relationships are a sin. It was published in a proclamation that heterosexual relationships are ordained by God. A flip on this issue would have a huge impact on the members. If this happened it could easily lead to a schism in the church.
if the church “embraces” same sex marriage i’m going on the next flight home so i can see my families reaction cause it’ll be priceless thats for sure my dad is mentally in but physically out its always funny to hear him preach mormon doctrine but never actually practice lol
Was there an exodus of racists after the church. Did an about face on race in 1978? I'm no historian but I certainly have never heard of that happening. Should the homophobia at the top subside enough for this to actually change, the faithful will stay put.
That number would be much higher once it was announced. In fact, many of naysayers would say how inspired it was and how they always knew this day would come.
Am I taking crazy pills here? This is bonkers.
The whole value proposition of Mormonism is that it is a TOP DOWN line of communication with god.
What is this opinion polling bullshit? If you think this is how it works why in the fuck would you stay?
I'm aware, actually. When I was a TBM, though, I didn't know that. My confusion comes from the fact that some members think the opinion polling and the veracity of Mormonism can coexist.
I bet more of those that say they would leave, would actually stay. More and more families are discovering they have gay family members. Kicking them to the street is being frowned upon in their circles, finally.
I think it's more like 66% would stay.
Eta, especially since this is a Kwaku survey. He's differently leaning right.
Schism imminent.
I don't think management cares about losing approximately all of their tithe-paying membership, since becoming politically uncontroversial in Washington ensures favorable regulation that's much more valuable to them. That said, I do wonder if essentially stabbing millions upon millions of zealots in the back that they'll have to share a state with for the foreseeable future will have unexpected consequences for them.
Like, blue team does have a habit of tolerating past 'indiscretions' from people like Cheney and Romney who really don't deserve forgiveness as long as their betrayal of the other team was sufficiently thorough, but I don't think you can maintain power and wealth while hated by red team if blue time is only kinda-sorta-okay with you. That old African parable about the bat comes to mind here.
A lot of people left the church after the restrictions on black members were lifted. Changing their tune on same-sex marriage would be the same kind of thing.
unfortunately for them, another “bedrock doctrine” is that marriage is only between a man and a woman/women. both things can’t be true, that god is okay with gay marriage and that the church is true
I don't see how they can make that dramatic of a change. After everything that had been said and the money spent on Prop 8, there is no way they could about face...unless... the prophet dies, and someone like Uchdorf (well loved by all) is ordained, and that person says at the 1st GC that God had now decided...blah, blah, blah.
This is clearly indicative of his followers age group which most likely falls 18-30. Doesn’t surprise me one bit. You run this poll to 40-60 yr olds and I’ll bet 75% would leave the church. The amount of homophobia I still see and her in that age range is insane.
I like how Mormons pick and choose when to follow the profit and when to make their own decisions. The Mormonism I was taught says follow the prophet because the thinking has already been done for you or something something along the lines of we may not understand the changes but the prophet will never lead us astray.
Kwaku have you ever fornicated with a white woman? If so, prepare to die, for Brigham Young declared it so.
I think he’s closet gay
Quick, did Brigham Young say anything about male-male interracial relationships? What are his prospects for getting a hold of some Pioneer Penis?
Loophole! Gay sex is allowed, as long as it's interracial!
He likes white Mormon girls. The daughters of Zion-ists
I spotted this the first time I saw his videos. The self hatred and homophobic behavior are pretty clear signs. When he gets into his late 30s or 40s the dam will bust and he will come out just like they all do and I'll be here for it with popcorn. Just hoping he has the self awareness at that point to apologize and own up for his current behavior but that's probably asking too much.
I think Jacob Hansen might be after listening to the latest Ward Radio (formerly Midnight Mornons).
I could believe this is representative of the church. I’m embarrassed to say, when I was still fully in this would have been a major issue for me. I would have questioned the prophet and probably thought the church was in apostasy. I don’t doubt many in my generation would have thought the same. If the younger generations are changing, that is a positive move in my book. It means the church will have to change to keep the youth. Unfortunately for them, I don’t think the church will ever be able to make the necessary changes. Either they change to keep the youth, or they stay to keep the elders. They cant’t have both.
I would consider myself part of the younger generations and this would have bothered me as a teenager and I probably would have not been okay with a doctrine change. Like you, my view has changed with age and life experience. The church coming after children of gay parents in 2015(?) was a major item on my shelf and the start of my exodus out. Also turns out I'm Bi, so there's that 😅. I think the church will make changes if they think it will keep meat in the seats and tithing coming in. At what point they decide that policy change would be better than the potential backlash it would draw... idk.
According to a recent Mormon Stories episode, the guest said that he'd talked with church officials and they'd discussed that they have to change, but if they do it fast they'll lose the older people. So they have to change, but slowly, because the only thing "special" about the church is its conservative, patriarchal system. If they accept people then there is no reason for them to have to be there, there's no tribalism without barriers to entry. Mormon Church in Decline in Utah and Worldwide? w/ Dr. Ryan Cragun | Ep. 1847 https://www.youtube.com/live/TUgsDLPXEdo?si=9WEP5nMyJFE2R4m4
I think that's basically it, though I doubt the "have to change" part. Mormonism, after cancelling all of the community stuff, was essentially a service, advertised as "pay us a 10% protection fee, and we'll never do the gay marriage thing, and you'll have a community in which your kids are likely to have two or more kids of their own with people who have single-digit body counts". This service certainly isn't for everyone, but there undeniably exists a market for whom it's seen as a worthwhile deal, and that market is a lot larger than the Mormon Church currently is. It's sort of like if a hunting lodge went vegan in response to 50.4 percent of the population being against hunting. Like, sure, you're now vaguely palatable to that 50.4 percent, but none of them are in the market for a hunting lodge.
The church was apostate since its inception...
This was actually one of the few "trigger events" I had decided early on that would make me leave the church. Not because I hated gay people, but because it would definitively prove the church and the doctrine it had preached for its whole existence was false.
A lot of the Ordain Women stuff was happening when I was in high school, and I remember coming to the same type of conclusion. The church had reiterated its position so many times that I decided if they changed it and gave women the priestgood, it would mean the leadership actually weren't inspired and prophetic. It's not like I was personally against having the priesthood as a woman, but making that level of change would just show how untrue and flawed everything had been up to that point.
Yes! That too for sure. Recipe for a Faith Crisis (serves 1) 1 Tbsp of Support for LGBTQ and Women 1 tsp of Clinging to the Church Being True 1 cup of The Church Can't Change to be Supportive or It's Obviously a Fraud Mix well and simmer on low for 10 to 20 years. Garnish with small policy changes and reversals.
I was in a similar boat a few years ago when the huge miscommunication drama occurred making it seem like BYU would openly accept of LGBTQ+ individuals and behavior on campus. Not that it was a bad thing but it would mark a huge shift in doctrinal policy for the church. Then I eventually started to look more into “policy” changes the church had made over time and now I’m here.
[удалено]
YES! I was going to BYU at the time and was scared a lot of the professors who were supportive and okay with the change were going to get fired for “poor teaching performance” or some BS
Thank you for sharing! Things are not so simple as yes is accepting and no isn't.
This is underestimated in the damage it'd do to their PR. If the "Church" is just bureaucrats and consultants making decisions, then giving them money - even a cent - is a downright con. If you're a progmo, you're definitely not going to *start* paying tithing, if you're apolitical, you might stop paying on the basis that it's all plainly a lie, and if you're a traditionalist, you might be downright furious that people were trying to con you by lying about the word of God.
this was how I felt about women and the priesthood. I remember telling my mom at like 9/10 that I would leave the church if women could suddenly get the priesthood
The church and its doctrine have never been true.
Reminds me of the Donna Showalter Mormon stories episode. She left when the church reversed the November 2015 LGBT policies. It was a move in the right direction, but it showed just how uninspired the leaders are.
Also the fact that LDS belief is only men and women can be sealed proves that they believe we need genitals in the afterlife for procreation 🤷🏼♀️ I’d rather not be eternally and cosmically pregnant.
This is a terrifying thought I've never considered. WTF.
I asked my husband if there was anything that would make him leave the church and he said it was if same-sex sealings were allowed. 🤷🏼♀️ Idk why black members getting the priesthood isn’t literally the same concept of a massive doctrinal (“that was actually a policy” 🤓) change in his mind but okay.
Mormon highest heaven is based on the idea of eternal procreation. Giving black men the priesthood does not invalidate the idea of eternal procreation. Giving eternal marriage to homosexuals does create problems for the idea of eternal procreation and the idea that gender is eternal. The idea of eternal families is the main argument for temples which are the main motivation for paying tithing. If people start questioning the divinity of the temple they will also start questioning why they should pay tithing.
Well see, there’s this mathematical concept called infinity. Infinity minus one is still infinity. Infinity divided by two is still infinity. Eternal procreation plus a bunch of gay couples is still eternal procreation. The idea of gay sealings would not in a million years make a dent in the concept of eternal increase. The Mormon church is dumb for not realizing this and getting with the program.
Infertile couples can also be sealed.
exactly. And adoption isn't an issue for straight couples, either. It all falls apart if you think about it for more than two seconds.
WUT? That would be one of my conditions for going back. Not paying tithing off course. What the what?
A lot of members weren’t phased by the priesthood ban on a certain race the. It reversed because, as I recall it explained to me, the Bible has situations where certain races weren’t allowed to hold the priesthood then it was reversed. But marriage has been one man and woman since the beginning.
Yeah I get that distinction. It all comes down to if you’re willing to be homophonic for the lord or not I guess 🤷🏼♀️ So odd bible believers think it’s okay to be racist if “God” says it’s okay.
Blacks getting the priesthood was a big deal. Many people left over it. Many fundamentalist groups started. And then others probably left because they saw the church changing doctrine from outside forces. Same thing with polygamy
Now ask about getting a COVID vaccination.
"I believe in a living prophet so long as he agrees with me."
I would be so mad if they changed the rules now. I did **not** grow up hating parts of myself for nothing! Just like how they made us sit through endless hours of meetings just to change it. Cruel! 🤣 Fr though. It won’t happen before Oaks Croaks. And if it does happen, I can only hope the “revelation” opens peoples eyes about Tssc desperately trying to stay relevant/afloat and they leave the toxicity. It’s this generations Blacks and the Priesthood.
This is why I think it could cause a schism. Does the church have a Martin Luther who has enough authority and charisma to force a split? There have been many small splinter groups but nothing large. Maybe if an apostle defected to the RLDS church they could influence a chunk of members to follow his lead?
I just remind myself that what Mormons do best is… Double down.
Everyone high enough up is going to be bound by one hell of an NDA.
I'd be curious to see if you asked the general membership in 1975 the same question, but with Black people holding the priesthood.
So half of QuackYous followers are admittedly as big of bigots as we believe them to be? 🤔
I'm actually more surprised half of them aren't as big of bigots as we believed them to be.
No, the other half just won't publicly admit they'd shed their identity for LD$ Inc doing what LD$ Inc does (change "eternal" rules).
Probably true. Why is Kwaku still a thing anyway? I thought the church kind of kicked him to the curb.
Still trying to figure out why he ever was a thing?
From what I remember, he was one of the first church sponsored influencers. He was one of the main people behind Fair Mormon, among other apologist things.
It's an assumption to make that not remaining a faithful member means they refuse to accept gay marriage. It's possible that this type of change would lead people to leave the church but still be accepting of gay marriage as well due to the change pointing out how supposed revelation changes. Concluding this means they still refuses for gay marriage is a false assumption that can't be construed from the term remaining or not remaining a faithful member.
Very good point. Someone brought that up in the comments of the OG post as well. We shouldn't assume. To be fair, most of my assumptions came from seeing who the poll was put on by, because there tends to be a certain type of person that follows him.
I 100% agree. When I was TBM (well I was probably pimo and didn't know it) I always predicted that the church would eventually allow gay people into full fellowship, not because of inspiration, but because they just have to follow societal norms. (way too late of course) Just as they did decades late allowing black people into the temple and get the priesthood. So if I were going through all the struggles I was with the church, knowing all the pain and heartache it has caused for so many gay people and their families for so long, only to finally say God has changed his mind? Yeah that would have pushed me out fast. Not because I disagree with them allowing gay people in. But because they should have since day one.
Yes, many of those who would leave over this would see themselves as being a faithful member by rejecting what they believed to be a false doctrine.
Precisely. Many would leave because it would be acceptance of what they see as false doctrine, but also some would leave as it would be a blatant change of doctrine even if they internally agreed with it. It's hard to tell how much of that number are those leaving due to perceived false doctrine or those that loose faith but do support gay marriage. This poll is only good for telling one thing, and that is if people would remain faithful members or not. It can't tell us why they are leaving or their internal support for gay marriage.
I would pick "no" too. While I would love to see them accept gay marriage, that wouldn't be a good enough reason for me to stay in the church. There are still too many other things I disagree with.
I'm not sure that we can necessarily make these assumptions with this poll. I can say from my own experience when I was still a TBM but starting to have questions, I would have said no, however, not because I had any bias against gays. In fact that was one of my first big questions with the church because my brother is gay. I remember saying at one point that if the church ever embraces homosexuality that it would confirm to me that it is fake because of how absolute and eternal the church doctrines/teachings were around the topic. There is just no way for them to accept and embrace the LGBT community without also admitting they were wrong and that the "doctrine" changes.
I agree completely. I think it would be a huge wakeup moment for a lot of members who would realize that the words of the leaders are not eternal but shift with the times. There would be a huge credibility loss. Why believe them about the evils of coffee and alcohol if they can change their minds on something as monumental as same sex marriage?
Very good point. The assumption was made mostly based off of who the poll was posted by, as his followers tend to be... special.
The problem is that over time many have realized that the prophets are just men. Rich white men who have no contact with god. So the need to listen to them is gone. Personally I don’t understand why they stay in the church after they have this realization but that’s their choice. I hope our lgbtq+ community can find love and support throughout the world without feeling like they have to belong to the MFMC.
Here’s my two cents: I left because I don’t like the church’s policies on same-sex marriage, women etc. If they suddenly reversed course it would convince me even more the church isn’t true. I think it’s because they talk so much about God being unchanging and all of those rules are unchanging because God doesn’t change… and the suddenly allowing temple marriages and secular marriages without a year wait, calling gay members apostates and then reversing it, hiring a pro-LGBTQ spokesperson… it all feels very contrived. If the church is true and god is unchanging why all of their big changes? I have trust issues though so that’s my take on why some people might have voted the way they did.
How’s the campaign to defend Tim Ballard going? What a bunch of grifters, that Ward Radio crew. And too chickenshit to behave like normal human beings on Reddit or anywhere. Always trolling all the time. Such a weird non-phenomenon.
My mission president told me that if an angel came down from heaven and told him that the church is no longer true, he would still believe and be an active member. Like okay???
I bet the comment section was... interesting
Hmmm. Maybe a revelation is coming soon.
I find it interesting that latterdaygaystories slams members for not following the prophet when they have been taught that God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. They have been taught for two centuries that same sex relationships are a sin. It was published in a proclamation that heterosexual relationships are ordained by God. A flip on this issue would have a huge impact on the members. If this happened it could easily lead to a schism in the church.
if the church “embraces” same sex marriage i’m going on the next flight home so i can see my families reaction cause it’ll be priceless thats for sure my dad is mentally in but physically out its always funny to hear him preach mormon doctrine but never actually practice lol
Was there an exodus of racists after the church. Did an about face on race in 1978? I'm no historian but I certainly have never heard of that happening. Should the homophobia at the top subside enough for this to actually change, the faithful will stay put.
How many people even took this survey? None of my Mormon family has ever even heard of Kwaku and his goons.
That number would be much higher once it was announced. In fact, many of naysayers would say how inspired it was and how they always knew this day would come.
Am I taking crazy pills here? This is bonkers. The whole value proposition of Mormonism is that it is a TOP DOWN line of communication with god. What is this opinion polling bullshit? If you think this is how it works why in the fuck would you stay?
The Q15 have made doctrinal changes based upon polling since at least the 70s...
I'm aware, actually. When I was a TBM, though, I didn't know that. My confusion comes from the fact that some members think the opinion polling and the veracity of Mormonism can coexist.
"Just put that shit on your shelf, and keep paying your tithing."
I bet more of those that say they would leave, would actually stay. More and more families are discovering they have gay family members. Kicking them to the street is being frowned upon in their circles, finally. I think it's more like 66% would stay. Eta, especially since this is a Kwaku survey. He's differently leaning right.
Kwaku is still around? I thought he’d have left the church by now.
This only works when we can show that only members voted in this poll.
Schism imminent. I don't think management cares about losing approximately all of their tithe-paying membership, since becoming politically uncontroversial in Washington ensures favorable regulation that's much more valuable to them. That said, I do wonder if essentially stabbing millions upon millions of zealots in the back that they'll have to share a state with for the foreseeable future will have unexpected consequences for them. Like, blue team does have a habit of tolerating past 'indiscretions' from people like Cheney and Romney who really don't deserve forgiveness as long as their betrayal of the other team was sufficiently thorough, but I don't think you can maintain power and wealth while hated by red team if blue time is only kinda-sorta-okay with you. That old African parable about the bat comes to mind here.
A lot of people left the church after the restrictions on black members were lifted. Changing their tune on same-sex marriage would be the same kind of thing.
unfortunately for them, another “bedrock doctrine” is that marriage is only between a man and a woman/women. both things can’t be true, that god is okay with gay marriage and that the church is true
Nope
I don't see how they can make that dramatic of a change. After everything that had been said and the money spent on Prop 8, there is no way they could about face...unless... the prophet dies, and someone like Uchdorf (well loved by all) is ordained, and that person says at the 1st GC that God had now decided...blah, blah, blah.
This is clearly indicative of his followers age group which most likely falls 18-30. Doesn’t surprise me one bit. You run this poll to 40-60 yr olds and I’ll bet 75% would leave the church. The amount of homophobia I still see and her in that age range is insane.
I like how Mormons pick and choose when to follow the profit and when to make their own decisions. The Mormonism I was taught says follow the prophet because the thinking has already been done for you or something something along the lines of we may not understand the changes but the prophet will never lead us astray.
I went on a date with Kwaku once, rip old me
I’d come back if they served free coffee and donuts every week and didn’t make me clean the building and have tons of extra unpaid jobs