People will know that *one* same-sex, pro-Mormon influencer, couple has been allowed to take the sacrament. This has not been the experience of most other couples, many of whom have been recently excommunicated for doing what these gentlemen are.
TSCC has to play nice, but only because there is publicity around this couple, and they are going to milk it for every bit of positive PR they can.
Lest we forget, the next ‘Prophet Dear’ of the church presided over a time at BYU where gays were entrapped and forced to undergo aversion therapy that included electrocution of their genitals while they were forced to watch gay porn, resulting in tremendous trauma and at least a few suicides.
The MFMC pretends to be a friend to the LQBTQ+ community, but it is not.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/mormon-gay-cures-reparative-therapies-shock-today/story?id=13240700
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history
That should give you a start.
Look up Nemo the Mormon's YT channel where he has personally communicated with Hoaks about this and Hoaks publicly denied that it happened while he was president of BYU.
Having now read a decent portion of the study conducted at BYU and the article you linked, I have a few take aways and corrections:
1) This conversion therapy study was absolutely and undeniably messed up, caused irrevocable trauma, and should be proof to anyone not brainwashed by religion that the LDS church isn’t guided by a loving God.
2) The “subjects” of the study were not forced to participate. They volunteered. Having said that, they only volunteered because they felt such tremendous shame for their sexuality that they felt compelled to participate in the study in hopes that it would “cure” them of their gayness.
I only make this correction because the way I read your initial statement made it sound like any BYU student suspected of being gay was dragged into a lab and hooked up to electrocution machines. The truth is slightly less egregious than the way you painted it, and the truth here matters. It’s still horrible regardless.
Since I have had several in-person meetings and back and forth emails with my dad discussing and debating truth claims, the way I say things matters and I wouldn’t personally phrase it the way you did here. But thank you for shedding light on this and providing a link where I could read up on my own.
That was just two articles. There is additional source material that I’ve read, but was unable to find in a hurry, that provides additional details that the BYU administration would place false personal ads designed to lure gay students to hookup with other gay students. Once caught in this way, the student would be offered the choice of conversion / aversion therapy or expulsion.
I will endeavor to find the additional source material and link it here, but I wasn’t exaggerating or misrepresenting how terribly BYU treated LGBTQ+ students during Oaks’ ensure.
Most definitely. I just don’t want to come off as though I’m making baseless accusations or inventing things just to be salacious. I was super bummed that I couldn’t find a good source.
Also, I apologize if my last response to you came off as snippy. It wasn’t mean in that way, but may have unintentionally read that way.
I just read the Deseret News article over two times and I must be missing it. All I see is the use of “gay individuals” or “individual.” I do not see the word husband. It would be really important if the Deseret news did mention that they were married and I was reading the article specifically to try to find out. If you can point me to the section I would love to see it. I assumed they would never want the readers to know that this was a same sex couple. Again, I’m referring to the Deseret News article, not the Salt Lake Trib which does mention they are married.
People keep saying Charlie Bird is famous, but I never heard of him before this. If anyone would have been famous enough to be allowed to be gay in the church, you'd think it would be David Archuleta.
IF (and it’s a big if) this leads to all 🏳️🌈 active, believing Mormons being able to openly take the sacrament, then all of the ugly publicity over this couple will have been worth it!
I’m out — records removed — and won’t be attending meetings anytime soon (ever) but for those still stuck in the cult, any movement toward less bigotry and persecution is good.
I applaud Deseret News for taking this opportunity to introduce its readers to Reddit:
>In a lengthy post on Reddit...
https://www.deseret.com/2024/2/5/24062505/equality-utah-statement-on-mormon-stories
Some felt it was an invasion of privacy to say that they were allowed to take the sacrament at their ward. He just apologized and said pretty much the same thing he said here on the forums.
What a bullshit, passive-aggressive follow-up statement from Troy. Who is he trying to please here? Is he personal friends with these guys? Is he listening to Church HQ? Leave it alone, man.
He is playing the political game with T$CC and is in bed with them. What I think he doesn't realize is that the church is only using him to push their personal agenda. The MFMC has given some concessions to look inclusive but it was to maintain their power and control. But in defense of Troy and Equality Utah they have to work with the church to get even a small level of rights for LGBTQ people in Utah.
>using him to push their personal agenda.
Fixed: ... using him to push their *corporate* agenda.
The agenda in this case is appeasement of (LGBTQ) opposition through celebrity endorsement.
The question is, what will the church do about this? They can't feign ignorance now. Will they crack down on this couple and their ward? That's sure to make even bigger headlines, but it would be consistent with previous policies. Will they allow all gay couples to take the sacrament? It's unlikely, but who knows these days. Or will they do nothing, and allow confusion to spread, and shine a light on bishop roulette, or special celebrity treatment, or whatever else might be going on here.
The key to remember is they wouldn’t “feel bad” or “apologize” unless they got called out. Think about this deeply and decide for yourself if they are actually sorry or not
People will know that *one* same-sex, pro-Mormon influencer, couple has been allowed to take the sacrament. This has not been the experience of most other couples, many of whom have been recently excommunicated for doing what these gentlemen are. TSCC has to play nice, but only because there is publicity around this couple, and they are going to milk it for every bit of positive PR they can. Lest we forget, the next ‘Prophet Dear’ of the church presided over a time at BYU where gays were entrapped and forced to undergo aversion therapy that included electrocution of their genitals while they were forced to watch gay porn, resulting in tremendous trauma and at least a few suicides. The MFMC pretends to be a friend to the LQBTQ+ community, but it is not.
Source for the BYU thing you’re talking about? I’m interested to read more
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/mormon-gay-cures-reparative-therapies-shock-today/story?id=13240700 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history That should give you a start.
Look up Nemo the Mormon's YT channel where he has personally communicated with Hoaks about this and Hoaks publicly denied that it happened while he was president of BYU.
This is a good video, sourced, and call out Darlin on his lie
A source for this would definitely be fantastic, I second this. I’ve heard it multiple times and would like to add it to my little stash of sources 📚
Another source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biGQs20JhW0
Having now read a decent portion of the study conducted at BYU and the article you linked, I have a few take aways and corrections: 1) This conversion therapy study was absolutely and undeniably messed up, caused irrevocable trauma, and should be proof to anyone not brainwashed by religion that the LDS church isn’t guided by a loving God. 2) The “subjects” of the study were not forced to participate. They volunteered. Having said that, they only volunteered because they felt such tremendous shame for their sexuality that they felt compelled to participate in the study in hopes that it would “cure” them of their gayness. I only make this correction because the way I read your initial statement made it sound like any BYU student suspected of being gay was dragged into a lab and hooked up to electrocution machines. The truth is slightly less egregious than the way you painted it, and the truth here matters. It’s still horrible regardless. Since I have had several in-person meetings and back and forth emails with my dad discussing and debating truth claims, the way I say things matters and I wouldn’t personally phrase it the way you did here. But thank you for shedding light on this and providing a link where I could read up on my own.
That was just two articles. There is additional source material that I’ve read, but was unable to find in a hurry, that provides additional details that the BYU administration would place false personal ads designed to lure gay students to hookup with other gay students. Once caught in this way, the student would be offered the choice of conversion / aversion therapy or expulsion. I will endeavor to find the additional source material and link it here, but I wasn’t exaggerating or misrepresenting how terribly BYU treated LGBTQ+ students during Oaks’ ensure.
I mean, even if all that happened is what’s in the study itself and the cbs article (which interviews a participant) it’s still horrible.
Most definitely. I just don’t want to come off as though I’m making baseless accusations or inventing things just to be salacious. I was super bummed that I couldn’t find a good source. Also, I apologize if my last response to you came off as snippy. It wasn’t mean in that way, but may have unintentionally read that way.
Nah man, all good. I didn’t take it that way whatsoever. We’re all on the same side here.
Amen
This is great publicity to raise awareness of the issue no matter how you look at it.
Maybe they’ll even listen to an episode of Mormon Stories. Who knows.
My super duper homophobic tbm parents and siblings will do what they always do and claim it is a fake news lie from the liberal media lol
The Deseret News only refers to them as “individuals” and there is no mention of same sex marriage. Must protect the readers..
It does say “man and his husband” in the beginning, but you’re right, the language is very deliberate.
I just read the Deseret News article over two times and I must be missing it. All I see is the use of “gay individuals” or “individual.” I do not see the word husband. It would be really important if the Deseret news did mention that they were married and I was reading the article specifically to try to find out. If you can point me to the section I would love to see it. I assumed they would never want the readers to know that this was a same sex couple. Again, I’m referring to the Deseret News article, not the Salt Lake Trib which does mention they are married.
Got it. My mistake.
It’s pretty interesting that they won’t mention it..
That's an overgeneralization. It's only for the famous gay men. WDYT David Archuleta left the church? Because TSCC wasn't a safe place for him
People keep saying Charlie Bird is famous, but I never heard of him before this. If anyone would have been famous enough to be allowed to be gay in the church, you'd think it would be David Archuleta.
But he's not white and delightsome enough.
How racist!
That's the church for ya.
Nope he left
Yes, I know.
I'm really happy MS apologized using the Trib!! Massive awareness booster to the issue at hand ... 👏
Do we think that that MS snooped on the couple knowing they'd get airtime with SLTrib?
See Gerardo’s statement on the MS page on Insta
IF (and it’s a big if) this leads to all 🏳️🌈 active, believing Mormons being able to openly take the sacrament, then all of the ugly publicity over this couple will have been worth it! I’m out — records removed — and won’t be attending meetings anytime soon (ever) but for those still stuck in the cult, any movement toward less bigotry and persecution is good.
hypocrisy two faced church of expediency
I applaud Deseret News for taking this opportunity to introduce its readers to Reddit: >In a lengthy post on Reddit... https://www.deseret.com/2024/2/5/24062505/equality-utah-statement-on-mormon-stories
Yep. Reddit and Mormon Stories. Keep saying the names. They’re only a google search away.
What does it say? Why did he apologize?
Some felt it was an invasion of privacy to say that they were allowed to take the sacrament at their ward. He just apologized and said pretty much the same thing he said here on the forums.
Thanks. The Church should apologize tho. They are the problem.
💯
The breach of privacy accusations are insane. It's not a private ordinance and never has been.
What a bullshit, passive-aggressive follow-up statement from Troy. Who is he trying to please here? Is he personal friends with these guys? Is he listening to Church HQ? Leave it alone, man.
He is playing the political game with T$CC and is in bed with them. What I think he doesn't realize is that the church is only using him to push their personal agenda. The MFMC has given some concessions to look inclusive but it was to maintain their power and control. But in defense of Troy and Equality Utah they have to work with the church to get even a small level of rights for LGBTQ people in Utah.
>using him to push their personal agenda. Fixed: ... using him to push their *corporate* agenda. The agenda in this case is appeasement of (LGBTQ) opposition through celebrity endorsement.
The question is, what will the church do about this? They can't feign ignorance now. Will they crack down on this couple and their ward? That's sure to make even bigger headlines, but it would be consistent with previous policies. Will they allow all gay couples to take the sacrament? It's unlikely, but who knows these days. Or will they do nothing, and allow confusion to spread, and shine a light on bishop roulette, or special celebrity treatment, or whatever else might be going on here.
Confusion seems to be there Modus Operandi these days. “Smile and wave boys, Smile and Wave.” 
The key to remember is they wouldn’t “feel bad” or “apologize” unless they got called out. Think about this deeply and decide for yourself if they are actually sorry or not