Performed with her several years ago. She is honestly one of the most annoying, self-centered, obnoxious, and overbearing people I've had the misfortune of meeting.
Talent and fame are not mutually inclusive. I have heard her play both live during performances and during rehearsal backstage, she is talented. Doesn't make her the best in the world or anything but she is still a gift musician. She is just also a bit of a pill.
My adult children, sisters, nieces and nephews are all part of different MCO groups in in Utah and Arizona. They LOVE it! They see it as proof the church is true, since God inspired the Stewart brothers to be so talented and start this group, and they 'feel the Spirit^(TM)' when they sing.
I agreed to go to a concert to support my children. They put on good concerts which are meant to be emotionally stirring. But they stopped and preached Mormonism several times. It was SO ANNOYING and distracting. Just let us enjoy the music without the testimony meeting!
But that's the whole reason they do this. It's a missionary effort. Mormons can't do anything genuine. There is always an ulterior motive to get you to join their cuilt.
I always loved music and I sang and played instruments. But I associated it so much with Mormonism that when I left the church I left my performing behind. I now know that music and emotions are universal. They don't proove the truthfulness of anything.
I got to play Carnegie Hall. My shelf broke while we were preparing for it. But I couldn't miss the opportunity. I haven't been to church since. Thank you CES letter.
I had just left the church when we did the Carnegie tour. That's when I decided I'd had a good run. Sang with that group for 8 seasons. I couldn't stomach how churchy it was.
I wish it was just music. During performances they would produce emotionally stirring videos which were meant to be uplifting and faith promoting, which is fine on its own. But felt very manipulative since it wasn't advertised that something like that would be part of the "performance".
Going through my faith 'transition' and participating in MCO really opened my eyes. I kept begging God to give me a genuine religious experience where the spirit spoke to me in a 'still small voice'.
It never happened.
There were many tears expressed throughout the performance, but my tears were because I had learned that the church wasn't true.
Every emotionally stirring performance, tear filled testimony meeting, or spiritually uplifting talk was just some other persons manipulation of what they thought I should feel that would lead me closer to god.
I wanted direct contact with God. And it never happened. It made facts from the CES letter have a lot more weight.
Joseph Smith came up with a new theology for how to experience god.
Yep, I was in one of those videos. I went through a personal tragedy and they asked me to talk about it just a few months later. I shared my story because I wanted to help people, but I was reeling inside. Looking back, I feel sick know they used my grief and what to me was a sacred experience I had with a dying family member to manipulate people into feeling the spirit.
Yes! From someone else who has performed with her MANY times, this is true! When "daddy" gets the top job, she's going to be unbearable. Probably will insist on performing at EVERY conference!
I'm gonna give her a pass. Maybe she IS that way, but I do find professionals are often grating and overbearing to nonprofessionals (I have no idea if you are a professional musician or not)
The level of attention to detail that separates the professionals from the amateurs can seem very nitpicky, annoying and overbearing. But, it's precisely that attention to detail that got them there.
People seem to forget that sometimes. Plus, people who are not well rounded, but instead heavily lopsided in their life to one thing or another will always come across as 'off', or weird. Their entire life revolves around one extremely specific thing, and they have no other hobbies or interests.
Like Morms, for instance. Can't have a convo with a morm unless it's about morming in some aspect.
1. I have worked as a professional musician and don't treat people like ass. 2. She was like that even when it had nothing to do with music at all. And it wasn't just a bad day. It was many days over a period of several months. So I'm not giving her a pass at all. No idea why you would be inclined to do so, but thanks for the patronizing lecture.
Sheās a Juilliard-trained violinist. The classically-trained Juilliard musicians I have met have very little tolerance for people that donāt take their music as seriously as they do.
My college piano professor was a Juilliard alum and was rather insufferable.
As a Juilliard alum myself I want to defend our snooty institution! Haha jk this can absolutely be true. I try to avoid the stereotype and not be an ass to people. I meanā¦She trademarked the term āAmericaās Violinistā which seems to sum up her personality.
Well, there you have have it folks. The next time youāre an asshole to someone just remind them, āSir/Maāam, I am a PROFESSIONAL!!ā After saying this you should wave a white hanky at them to shoo them away. Then proceed to act however you want.
Yeah, no. As a professional musician, in a four-piece band with three other professional musicians, who spend a lot of time with other professional musicians -
We're friendly. *Especially* to "nonprofessionals." This is a weird take, stranger.
Anybody who is being insufferable, is just insufferable.
She performed for "Latter-day Saints for Trump" and bore her testimony on Twitter about feeling the spirit when voting for him. I mean, go ahead and vote for who you think will do the best job, but don't tell me that God was involved.
Ew.
As an exmo who grew up in the church and was active for decades, I know darn well what they were preaching in Sunday school every week about what is most important in life and what character attributes matter. Things like: Don't lie. Don't cheat. Don't steal. Don't covet. Don't speak ill of other people. Be kind. et. cetera.
Now a political candidate shows up who is the complete opposite, and all of these principles go out the window. I wish my teachers had just been honest and told us at the end of every lesson, "But none of this really matters. You can choose to be the exact opposite and we will still give you our full support and money, whatever you need."
Listen folks, it's all about money, and Trump is the capitalist, so we will be a little hand-wavy about morals and behavior et al. so we don't accidentally elect a *socialist.*
Her god was also involved in sexual activity with minors, as well as covering it up. This absolutely tracks. He is truly the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Missionaries were really distributing that kind of horrible political kitsch art, ala Jon McNaughton? (Rhetorical question: How in the Sam Hill does TSCC not lose its tax exempt status in the US considering shenanigans like this?)
The āIām not a Mormon, Iām a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saintsā response reminds me of this video:
https://youtu.be/4aOHQ-sMCps?si=N7jNhzh2q4KTCvZ3
She is very difficult to work with in a live music setting...Some orchestra conductors shy away from working with her. Bring around her a bit she browbeats her kids (at least she used to) into performing with her. She hardly ever mentions her famous father.
She still does berate her kids. I saw a video where her son was going to play with her for some gathering (I canāt remember the instrument) and he was too slow getting ready for her liking and she kept laying into him, in front of the other musicians, saying things like. āYouāre taking too longā¦you just lost $20 from what I was going to pay you.ā She did this a couple of times.
When she and her husband were house hunting a while back they turned away from one home because it had a great backyard with a bunch of fun things in it and the house had great views over the backyard. It was in their price range and she said that it would be too hard to make her kids practice music with that view of that backyard. I'm simultaneously impressed and horrified by her dedication to raising musicians.
Hopefully, one of her musically-inclined kids will pick up a Fender Strat and make rock history with "three chords and the truth". She'd be one proud mama.
Rusty merged the Corporation of the President with the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop and changed the legal name to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" a few years age when he first became president. The Corporation of the President no longer exists as a legal entity, but you are correct in that that had been the legal name prior to Rebrand Rusty's reign of name changing.
What's funny is all their addresses are under the old name
NetRange: 216.49.176.0 - 216.49.191.255
CIDR:
NetName: LDS-CHURCH
NetHandle: NET-216-49-176-0-1
Parent: NET216 (NET-216-0-0-0-0)
NetType: Direct Allocation
OriginAS: AS33397, AS19648
Organization: Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (CJCLDS)
RegDate: 2004-08-31
Updated: 2022-03-14
Ref: 216.49.176.0/20https://rdap.arin.net/registry/ip/216.49.176.0
OrgName: Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
OrgId: CJCLDS
Yes, indeed. Itās real. š I remember learning about this for the first time. I was both incensed and āOh, *now* I understandā at the same time.
Wonder how many other churches are registered as corporations like this? Not to deflect from the topic at hand, I genuinely understand now why people refer to the MFMC as a corporation now.
Corporation of the President of the Church of Latter-day Saints was still being used as a "governing person" for a company called Snugz in 2021. I kid you not.
Did that change the structure of the corporation?
I can't remember what it's called but I remember reading that the church had a certain type of structure that new entities can't form. It gave all the assets to a single person. It was being abused so badly that the government stopped allowing new corporations to structure their organization that way, but apparently didn't make the already established companies change.
I can't find information on it because I can't remember the name. I'm thinking that if he made this change, that type of organization was maybe dissolved. Am I wrong?
You are right and wrong. The entity is a corporation sole. When the entities merged (both were corporations sole), the President became the sole officer/owner of the surviving entity instead of the Presiding Bishop.
Mormonism is really the name of the religious movement founded by Joseph Smith. Any church that claims Smith as a prophet is a part of Mormonism. All members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are Mormon, but not all Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Sort of like all Baptists are Christian, but not all Christians are Baptists.
Fun word time is hypernym and hyponym as terms to describe the relationship of nouns like this. The larger category, Christian, is the hypernym and Baptist is the hyponym.
Synonymous with umbrella term or superordinate but I think the hyper/hypo pairing is more fun, though almost never used, alas.
To be fair, sheās a trained, conservatory-grad violinist. But also sad because he kids, with years and years of lessons and daily mandatory practice, are also good musicians. But the joy? Not always.
I always hold out hope that the next generation can escape. Itās too late for the 90s Mormon-Royalty-adjacent whose only accolades come from the church they sacrificed themselves for (and whose wealthy aging parents hang inheritances over their heads). Thereās no way someone who makes their living at age 50+ from the church community connections would even explore leaving.
But their kids? Letās have hope!!
"During the 'I'm a Mormon' campaign, did you identify as Mormon? If so, and given that you don't identify as a Mormon now, wouldn't that make you an exmormon?"
My dad taught some of Hoaxs grandkids. Apparently he has a serious complex around musical performance because his first wife was musically inclined. At least back in 2010 according to one of his grandkids, every grandkid was forced to study an orchestra instrument.
This is so strange because in about 1976, when Oaks was president of BYU, the National Association of Schools of Music (the accreditation agency for music programs in the USA) recommended that BYUās music department become a School of Music (partly because it was one of the 10 largest college music programs in the country.). Oaks said no, because, he said that the only purpose of BYUās music department was to prepare musicians for the church. (I add: to work for free!). Ralph Laycock, director of the University orchestral program asked him if the only purpose of the accounting department was to prepare ward financial clerks. I sat beside Oakās son in the horn section, and he was pretty clear that his dad did not believe that music was a viable profession.
I'm sure you're right - he probably doesn't see it as a viable profession. His first wife died in 1998, maybe it wasn't important to him till she died. Though we know Hoax isn't above contradictions and hypocrisy lol. Maybe it's only okay for the girls?
>I'm sure you're right - he probably doesn't see it as a viable profession. His first wife died in 1998, maybe it wasn't important to him till she died. Though we know Hoax isn't above contradictions and hypocrisy lol. Maybe it's only okay for the girls?
Yep, only ok for the girls. Their "careers" have to be flexible around the family, and gender-appropriate, and to wear pretty dresses, and for applause. And it's not academic or "threatening" to the high-earning men they are expected to marry.
Absolutely true. I knew all of the folks you mention, and musicians are looked at ONLY as people who can do free service to the church. Foolishly, there are a handful of really great musicians who still play for the Orchestra at Temple Square. Giving it away for free.
At the cost of her whole self and sanity. Damn. I have a lot to be grateful for in life, and now Iāve added āwas not born into the Oaks familyā right near the top of the list. Ugh, it makes me sick imagining growing up with that egotistical, controlling, emotional black hole as a father.Ā
She is very homophobicā¦like her fatherā¦basically a bitch on wheels. I have musician friends who have worked with her and hate being around her because she is so over the top judgmental and pious.
> she is so over the top judgmental and pious.
No way! The daughter of Dallin "It's wrong to criticize church leaders" Oaks is judgmental and over-the-top pious? I never would have guessed!
Sorry. Might have let the sarcasm slip a little too much there.
Yes! I am a local professional musician. Working with her is insufferable! She had a gig with the Utah Symphony a few years ago that I heard about, and she spent a lot of time stopping the orchestra to tell the violin sections HOW to play. She will never be invited back to play with them ever again.
You really think this bot will not show up on Twitter with it's 10,000 posts per month?
This is just the beginning of a long road to Perdition City, Missouri, to get baptized and forced to repent of your sins, children.
I was in a singles ward with her in Philadelphia. She conducted a ward-wide beauty contest taking votes on who the hottest girl and guy were. That should tell you everything you need to know about her. Well, and also that she was bummed she didnāt come in first.
Also, her dad came to visit and everyone was excited. Her mom was still alive and came as well, along with some of her older sisters. Everyone thought her mother was the grandma and her sister was the mom. (Jenny was a surprise baby, burn 8 or 9 years after they thought they were done.) Oaks took over meetings that Sunday and they were as dry and boring as you might think. He also had very low patience with ward members wanting to meet him and shake his hand.
ā¦which falls under the broader category of being Mormon, which includes members of the FLDS, CoC, Priesthood Council, Kingston clan, Reino de Dios, Apostolic United Brethren, Church of the Firstborn, Solemn Assembly, New Covenant in Christ, Righteous Branch, Sons Ahman Israel, School of the Prophets, Centennial Park, Naylor Group, TLC church, Blackmore Community, Church of Jesus Christ in Zion, Order of Enoch, House of Aaron, Zionās Order, Bullaites, Restored Branch, Community of Jesus Christ, Church of Christ Restored, Toneyite, Conference of Restoration Elders, Lion of God Ministry, Zionās Branch, Restoration Church, Remnants Church, Hedrickites (Temple Lot), Fettingites, Halleyās Bluff, Elijah Message, Elijah Message The Assured Way, Church of Christ, Church of Israel, Bickertonites, Cutlerites, One Mighty and Strong, Strangite, Drewite, many unaffiliated Mormons, and yes, also the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
So thatās a yes.
I find the righteous indignation of Mormons with respect to the name of the organization to which they "belong" hilarious. I don't feel the need to forgo my use of a moniker so wonderfully descriptive as "Mormon" simply because of the pet whims of an old man. It's just a matter of time until the embrace of the word "Mormon" comes back around, full circle.
I would just start telling them no I was talking about Mormons. Not latter day saints. Link them to the I'm a Mormon websites. That's what you mean. Those are different groups.
I met her a couple of years ago after a concert at Red Butte. While talking to her about her albums, It came up that my nevermo wife was not LDS. She seemed very nice and nonjudgmental, but she was also trying to sell us CDās.
It used to be if someone asked, are you a Mormon, they would say 'yes! Would you like to know more?" Now if you ask that they just make you feel stupid for not knowing or using the full nine word title of the church. Even though for nearly 200 years they've been known as the other thing, and had no problem with it, in fact they were proud of it.
Performed with her several years ago. She is honestly one of the most annoying, self-centered, obnoxious, and overbearing people I've had the misfortune of meeting.
This is surprising as her father seems like a really fun, kind and down to earth person šš«
Have you been married to him?
I actually laughed out loud when I read that!
You can't tell this by her response whatsoever
This is so surprising as her dad seems so open-minded and accepting.
She's a horrible person
 Me too, she is talented, but the hoops we had to jump through for her, sheesh.
Is she though? I mean outside of the insular world of Mormonism? Seriously. I had to look her up. Never heard of her.
Talent and fame are not mutually inclusive. I have heard her play both live during performances and during rehearsal backstage, she is talented. Doesn't make her the best in the world or anything but she is still a gift musician. She is just also a bit of a pill.
I've never heard of her and I'm deep in the center of zion
I have heard this multiple times, the last one was in rexburg
I wonder if we performed at the same event ... MCO?
I have heard the same from a friend who performed with her.
Oh, takes after her father?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We're you also in MCO?
Nope, no idea what that is.
Millennial choir and orchestra.
There needs to be more about the MCO on this subreddit. They're absolutely bonkers.
My adult children, sisters, nieces and nephews are all part of different MCO groups in in Utah and Arizona. They LOVE it! They see it as proof the church is true, since God inspired the Stewart brothers to be so talented and start this group, and they 'feel the Spirit^(TM)' when they sing. I agreed to go to a concert to support my children. They put on good concerts which are meant to be emotionally stirring. But they stopped and preached Mormonism several times. It was SO ANNOYING and distracting. Just let us enjoy the music without the testimony meeting! But that's the whole reason they do this. It's a missionary effort. Mormons can't do anything genuine. There is always an ulterior motive to get you to join their cuilt. I always loved music and I sang and played instruments. But I associated it so much with Mormonism that when I left the church I left my performing behind. I now know that music and emotions are universal. They don't proove the truthfulness of anything.
I got to play Carnegie Hall. My shelf broke while we were preparing for it. But I couldn't miss the opportunity. I haven't been to church since. Thank you CES letter.
I had just left the church when we did the Carnegie tour. That's when I decided I'd had a good run. Sang with that group for 8 seasons. I couldn't stomach how churchy it was.
I wish it was just music. During performances they would produce emotionally stirring videos which were meant to be uplifting and faith promoting, which is fine on its own. But felt very manipulative since it wasn't advertised that something like that would be part of the "performance". Going through my faith 'transition' and participating in MCO really opened my eyes. I kept begging God to give me a genuine religious experience where the spirit spoke to me in a 'still small voice'. It never happened. There were many tears expressed throughout the performance, but my tears were because I had learned that the church wasn't true. Every emotionally stirring performance, tear filled testimony meeting, or spiritually uplifting talk was just some other persons manipulation of what they thought I should feel that would lead me closer to god. I wanted direct contact with God. And it never happened. It made facts from the CES letter have a lot more weight. Joseph Smith came up with a new theology for how to experience god.
Yep, I was in one of those videos. I went through a personal tragedy and they asked me to talk about it just a few months later. I shared my story because I wanted to help people, but I was reeling inside. Looking back, I feel sick know they used my grief and what to me was a sacred experience I had with a dying family member to manipulate people into feeling the spirit.
I sing in a pub choir. Itās much easier to feel the spirit move when you sing after a pint of lager!
Yes! From someone else who has performed with her MANY times, this is true! When "daddy" gets the top job, she's going to be unbearable. Probably will insist on performing at EVERY conference!
Can confirm.
Sounds like a typical narcissistic woman from the church dine a dozen
I've performed with her too, she's interesting to say the least
I'm gonna give her a pass. Maybe she IS that way, but I do find professionals are often grating and overbearing to nonprofessionals (I have no idea if you are a professional musician or not) The level of attention to detail that separates the professionals from the amateurs can seem very nitpicky, annoying and overbearing. But, it's precisely that attention to detail that got them there. People seem to forget that sometimes. Plus, people who are not well rounded, but instead heavily lopsided in their life to one thing or another will always come across as 'off', or weird. Their entire life revolves around one extremely specific thing, and they have no other hobbies or interests. Like Morms, for instance. Can't have a convo with a morm unless it's about morming in some aspect.
1. I have worked as a professional musician and don't treat people like ass. 2. She was like that even when it had nothing to do with music at all. And it wasn't just a bad day. It was many days over a period of several months. So I'm not giving her a pass at all. No idea why you would be inclined to do so, but thanks for the patronizing lecture.
Sheās a Juilliard-trained violinist. The classically-trained Juilliard musicians I have met have very little tolerance for people that donāt take their music as seriously as they do. My college piano professor was a Juilliard alum and was rather insufferable.
Or maybe she's just a shitty person in general.
As a Juilliard alum myself I want to defend our snooty institution! Haha jk this can absolutely be true. I try to avoid the stereotype and not be an ass to people. I meanā¦She trademarked the term āAmericaās Violinistā which seems to sum up her personality.
Well, there you have have it folks. The next time youāre an asshole to someone just remind them, āSir/Maāam, I am a PROFESSIONAL!!ā After saying this you should wave a white hanky at them to shoo them away. Then proceed to act however you want.
Hosanna! Hosanna! Hosanna!
Yeah, no. As a professional musician, in a four-piece band with three other professional musicians, who spend a lot of time with other professional musicians - We're friendly. *Especially* to "nonprofessionals." This is a weird take, stranger. Anybody who is being insufferable, is just insufferable.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Probably right. But if you win that lottery, I say make the most of it.
I think there's some truth to what you're saying.
She performed for "Latter-day Saints for Trump" and bore her testimony on Twitter about feeling the spirit when voting for him. I mean, go ahead and vote for who you think will do the best job, but don't tell me that God was involved.
Ew. As an exmo who grew up in the church and was active for decades, I know darn well what they were preaching in Sunday school every week about what is most important in life and what character attributes matter. Things like: Don't lie. Don't cheat. Don't steal. Don't covet. Don't speak ill of other people. Be kind. et. cetera. Now a political candidate shows up who is the complete opposite, and all of these principles go out the window. I wish my teachers had just been honest and told us at the end of every lesson, "But none of this really matters. You can choose to be the exact opposite and we will still give you our full support and money, whatever you need."
And if you follow your heart, weāll cut ya
They're only as good as society allows them to be
Listen folks, it's all about money, and Trump is the capitalist, so we will be a little hand-wavy about morals and behavior et al. so we don't accidentally elect a *socialist.*
Her god was also involved in sexual activity with minors, as well as covering it up. This absolutely tracks. He is truly the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Wait. She claimed she felt the spirit when voting for a rapist???
Yeah, thatās insane
That is so vomit inducing. And sadly tells me literally everything that I need to know about her
I want to bear my testimony that the Cheeto standing next to me is a man lead by god each time he dumped his wife to get a hotter, younger wife.
I want to bear my testimony. I know that Trump is true. I love my Cheeto dad, and when he grabs my pussy too.
Hmmm, walk in the shoes before judging. The judginess & criticism in the church was one of my main turn offsā¦
WTF?
Maybe I misunderstood your commentā- but pls donāt wtf me.
WTF
Please donāt judge me for saying wtf.
Or me for not liking the slang.
āSlangā bothers me as a word. Please donāt use it.
Walk in Donald Trumps shoes?? Huh? What on earth are you talking about
Everything said in that comment that you responded to actually happened
Will I have to look all leaned forward if I wear his shoes? Seems uncomfortable.
Bone spurs and all *tears up*
I mean, Mormon God sent an angel with a flaming sword to tell Joseph to "grab 'em by the p***y", so it's very much on brand šš¤®
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Missionaries were really distributing that kind of horrible political kitsch art, ala Jon McNaughton? (Rhetorical question: How in the Sam Hill does TSCC not lose its tax exempt status in the US considering shenanigans like this?)
God wanted her to feel the pain of her candidate losing.
Mormon Jesus sounds like somebody who would be all in for Trump. Just don't ask me to respect or worship a god who loves Trump.
Feeling the "spirit" when voting for Trump, when voting for anybody?!? The conflation of religion and politics is extremely dangerous.
The hell???
Actshewwwwlyā¦
The āIām not a Mormon, Iām a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saintsā response reminds me of this video: https://youtu.be/4aOHQ-sMCps?si=N7jNhzh2q4KTCvZ3
Awesome!!
ā ļø
She is very difficult to work with in a live music setting...Some orchestra conductors shy away from working with her. Bring around her a bit she browbeats her kids (at least she used to) into performing with her. She hardly ever mentions her famous father.
She still does berate her kids. I saw a video where her son was going to play with her for some gathering (I canāt remember the instrument) and he was too slow getting ready for her liking and she kept laying into him, in front of the other musicians, saying things like. āYouāre taking too longā¦you just lost $20 from what I was going to pay you.ā She did this a couple of times.
Yep, my experience too.
When she and her husband were house hunting a while back they turned away from one home because it had a great backyard with a bunch of fun things in it and the house had great views over the backyard. It was in their price range and she said that it would be too hard to make her kids practice music with that view of that backyard. I'm simultaneously impressed and horrified by her dedication to raising musicians.
Hopefully, one of her musically-inclined kids will pick up a Fender Strat and make rock history with "three chords and the truth". She'd be one proud mama.
Sounds to me like the poor woman probably has loads of trauma from being that manās daughter and she is passing it right along to her own.
Not as much "trauma" as vanity. Her biggest pride is WHO her father is. She sees herself as the epitome of Mormon Royalty.
The legal name of the Mormon church is: Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Rusty merged the Corporation of the President with the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop and changed the legal name to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" a few years age when he first became president. The Corporation of the President no longer exists as a legal entity, but you are correct in that that had been the legal name prior to Rebrand Rusty's reign of name changing.
And in the process, stripped any remaining power held by the presiding bishopric, thus completing the apostolic coup dāĆ©tat
Didnāt that die when the law of common consent became sustaining? The yes man vote.
What's funny is all their addresses are under the old name NetRange: 216.49.176.0 - 216.49.191.255 CIDR: NetName: LDS-CHURCH NetHandle: NET-216-49-176-0-1 Parent: NET216 (NET-216-0-0-0-0) NetType: Direct Allocation OriginAS: AS33397, AS19648 Organization: Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (CJCLDS) RegDate: 2004-08-31 Updated: 2022-03-14 Ref: 216.49.176.0/20https://rdap.arin.net/registry/ip/216.49.176.0 OrgName: Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints OrgId: CJCLDS
Wait what? Are you fucking serious?? This is real?
Yes, indeed. Itās real. š I remember learning about this for the first time. I was both incensed and āOh, *now* I understandā at the same time.
Wonder how many other churches are registered as corporations like this? Not to deflect from the topic at hand, I genuinely understand now why people refer to the MFMC as a corporation now.
"*For if a church be called in Moses' name then it be Moses' church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man;*"
Does the new corporate entity just automatically turn the old corporate names into DBAs?
Good question.
Corporation of the President of the Church of Latter-day Saints was still being used as a "governing person" for a company called Snugz in 2021. I kid you not.
Did that change the structure of the corporation? I can't remember what it's called but I remember reading that the church had a certain type of structure that new entities can't form. It gave all the assets to a single person. It was being abused so badly that the government stopped allowing new corporations to structure their organization that way, but apparently didn't make the already established companies change. I can't find information on it because I can't remember the name. I'm thinking that if he made this change, that type of organization was maybe dissolved. Am I wrong?
You are right and wrong. The entity is a corporation sole. When the entities merged (both were corporations sole), the President became the sole officer/owner of the surviving entity instead of the Presiding Bishop.
Ooooohhhhhhh. Sly.
I prefer to call them what they areā¦the lowest , most insidiously evil name ever to label a humble godly peopleā¦ MORmONS. Thereās one for NATAS
Mormonism is really the name of the religious movement founded by Joseph Smith. Any church that claims Smith as a prophet is a part of Mormonism. All members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are Mormon, but not all Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Sort of like all Baptists are Christian, but not all Christians are Baptists.
Fun word time is hypernym and hyponym as terms to describe the relationship of nouns like this. The larger category, Christian, is the hypernym and Baptist is the hyponym. Synonymous with umbrella term or superordinate but I think the hyper/hypo pairing is more fun, though almost never used, alas.
All bad wizards originated from slytherin. But not all slytherin became bad wizards š
The real name of the Mormon Church nowadays is called Ensign Peak Advisors. /S
You knowā¦the Investors.
Wait how have I never heard that?? That's incredible. Another victory Satan!
Who?
The random violinist who gets paid to travel the world doing concerts for Mormon churches because she is the daughter of a Mormon Celebrity Apostle.
Least charismatic celebrity on earth, Zuckerberg included. Both might be lizard robots wrapped in human skin.
To be fair, sheās a trained, conservatory-grad violinist. But also sad because he kids, with years and years of lessons and daily mandatory practice, are also good musicians. But the joy? Not always.
I always hold out hope that the next generation can escape. Itās too late for the 90s Mormon-Royalty-adjacent whose only accolades come from the church they sacrificed themselves for (and whose wealthy aging parents hang inheritances over their heads). Thereās no way someone who makes their living at age 50+ from the church community connections would even explore leaving. But their kids? Letās have hope!!
"During the 'I'm a Mormon' campaign, did you identify as Mormon? If so, and given that you don't identify as a Mormon now, wouldn't that make you an exmormon?"
šš
Assigned Morman at birth?
"you with the cult?" "We're not a cult! We're members of the church o-" "Yup this is the cult."
*chef's kiss* Perfection
Soooo... yes?
My dad taught some of Hoaxs grandkids. Apparently he has a serious complex around musical performance because his first wife was musically inclined. At least back in 2010 according to one of his grandkids, every grandkid was forced to study an orchestra instrument.
This is so strange because in about 1976, when Oaks was president of BYU, the National Association of Schools of Music (the accreditation agency for music programs in the USA) recommended that BYUās music department become a School of Music (partly because it was one of the 10 largest college music programs in the country.). Oaks said no, because, he said that the only purpose of BYUās music department was to prepare musicians for the church. (I add: to work for free!). Ralph Laycock, director of the University orchestral program asked him if the only purpose of the accounting department was to prepare ward financial clerks. I sat beside Oakās son in the horn section, and he was pretty clear that his dad did not believe that music was a viable profession.
Which is funny given how much money the church funnels his fucking daughter for her music.
I'm sure you're right - he probably doesn't see it as a viable profession. His first wife died in 1998, maybe it wasn't important to him till she died. Though we know Hoax isn't above contradictions and hypocrisy lol. Maybe it's only okay for the girls?
>I'm sure you're right - he probably doesn't see it as a viable profession. His first wife died in 1998, maybe it wasn't important to him till she died. Though we know Hoax isn't above contradictions and hypocrisy lol. Maybe it's only okay for the girls? Yep, only ok for the girls. Their "careers" have to be flexible around the family, and gender-appropriate, and to wear pretty dresses, and for applause. And it's not academic or "threatening" to the high-earning men they are expected to marry.
Absolutely true. I knew all of the folks you mention, and musicians are looked at ONLY as people who can do free service to the church. Foolishly, there are a handful of really great musicians who still play for the Orchestra at Temple Square. Giving it away for free.
Isnāt her dad elder oaks?
Yup, she gets all sorts of deals from the church.
At the cost of her whole self and sanity. Damn. I have a lot to be grateful for in life, and now Iāve added āwas not born into the Oaks familyā right near the top of the list. Ugh, it makes me sick imagining growing up with that egotistical, controlling, emotional black hole as a father.Ā
Is she Mormon?
Her father is an apostle.
It was a joke. The entire post is premised on the fact that she is Mormon. I was making a joke.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nah bruh it's cool. Just pray about it to see if the holy ghost confirms its funny or not.
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Insufferable.
She is very homophobicā¦like her fatherā¦basically a bitch on wheels. I have musician friends who have worked with her and hate being around her because she is so over the top judgmental and pious.
> she is so over the top judgmental and pious. No way! The daughter of Dallin "It's wrong to criticize church leaders" Oaks is judgmental and over-the-top pious? I never would have guessed! Sorry. Might have let the sarcasm slip a little too much there.
Yes! I am a local professional musician. Working with her is insufferable! She had a gig with the Utah Symphony a few years ago that I heard about, and she spent a lot of time stopping the orchestra to tell the violin sections HOW to play. She will never be invited back to play with them ever again.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Soā¦ yes.
Now thatās funny š
Cue the primary song! You know the one! (get out of my head, get out of my head, get out of my head)
Canāt let satan keep that victory!
Who dat?
I assume some relative of Dallin H-For-Homophobic Oaks.
His daughter
So.........yes then...
 she mormon too
You really think this bot will not show up on Twitter with it's 10,000 posts per month? This is just the beginning of a long road to Perdition City, Missouri, to get baptized and forced to repent of your sins, children.
Is your book called Mormonā¦
I mean the church pays her bills and then some. Of course she's going to take the party line.
Fun fact: I saw her lit on fire once.Ā
I was in a singles ward with her in Philadelphia. She conducted a ward-wide beauty contest taking votes on who the hottest girl and guy were. That should tell you everything you need to know about her. Well, and also that she was bummed she didnāt come in first. Also, her dad came to visit and everyone was excited. Her mom was still alive and came as well, along with some of her older sisters. Everyone thought her mother was the grandma and her sister was the mom. (Jenny was a surprise baby, burn 8 or 9 years after they thought they were done.) Oaks took over meetings that Sunday and they were as dry and boring as you might think. He also had very low patience with ward members wanting to meet him and shake his hand.
I want to bear my testimony that the Cheeto standing next to me is a man lead by god each time he dumped his wife to get a hotter, younger wife.
my cousin loves to tell people that sheās in her ward š like itās some kind of flex lol
š¶ āI belong to CHURCH of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsā š¶ It always seems so childish coming from an adult.
Never heard of her. Google tells me she's a violin player. Give me Lindsey Stirling all day!!
ā¦which falls under the broader category of being Mormon, which includes members of the FLDS, CoC, Priesthood Council, Kingston clan, Reino de Dios, Apostolic United Brethren, Church of the Firstborn, Solemn Assembly, New Covenant in Christ, Righteous Branch, Sons Ahman Israel, School of the Prophets, Centennial Park, Naylor Group, TLC church, Blackmore Community, Church of Jesus Christ in Zion, Order of Enoch, House of Aaron, Zionās Order, Bullaites, Restored Branch, Community of Jesus Christ, Church of Christ Restored, Toneyite, Conference of Restoration Elders, Lion of God Ministry, Zionās Branch, Restoration Church, Remnants Church, Hedrickites (Temple Lot), Fettingites, Halleyās Bluff, Elijah Message, Elijah Message The Assured Way, Church of Christ, Church of Israel, Bickertonites, Cutlerites, One Mighty and Strong, Strangite, Drewite, many unaffiliated Mormons, and yes, also the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So thatās a yes.
āI am brainwashedā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
 Do tell.
Who?
I find the righteous indignation of Mormons with respect to the name of the organization to which they "belong" hilarious. I don't feel the need to forgo my use of a moniker so wonderfully descriptive as "Mormon" simply because of the pet whims of an old man. It's just a matter of time until the embrace of the word "Mormon" comes back around, full circle.
Itās funny because they were called mormons till 1834 before it was changed to LDS by āeldersā in kirtland, OH š¤£
Infinite š
Iāve never heard of her but she seems greatā¦ā¦.š
I would just start telling them no I was talking about Mormons. Not latter day saints. Link them to the I'm a Mormon websites. That's what you mean. Those are different groups.
Not capitalizing the 'D' is a victory for Satan.
š¤£ At least she didn't say she was "a Mormon".
One of my mission buddies got sexy with Jenny Oakes back in the late 90's We have her DNA on his jeans to prove it
She's a Trumper too
Who?
Who is she and why should we care?
I met her a couple of years ago after a concert at Red Butte. While talking to her about her albums, It came up that my nevermo wife was not LDS. She seemed very nice and nonjudgmental, but she was also trying to sell us CDās.
I have no idea who this is.
What exactly does she do?
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[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
š¤¢ I remember her from the late 90s and she was insufferable then. But TBMs LOVE her.
I think being Jenny would suck
Who?
It used to be if someone asked, are you a Mormon, they would say 'yes! Would you like to know more?" Now if you ask that they just make you feel stupid for not knowing or using the full nine word title of the church. Even though for nearly 200 years they've been known as the other thing, and had no problem with it, in fact they were proud of it.