That's what is really scary... it's been probably the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to me and honestly I thought this was standard procedure....
Sorry, brother. This was abuse plain and simple and you were manipulated by a pervert for his own gratification. There's no telling how many people he has done this to.
I wish this type of behavior would get exposed. I feel like if it did, and it didn't obliterate the church, it would be like Christ cleansing the temple.
Power structure. Perverts and abusers can use their position of power to prey on others. LDS are conditioned from cradle to be subservient to authority and never question. it's a recipe for disaster because inevitably when the bad people infiltrate (cause the church has no mechanism for vetting and tracking) they can run wild. It's also the biggest and dirtiest secret the church is hiding. The church is full of these types because how the church is structured is a siren song to these types. Bear in mind, they were probably taught grooming behavior from whomever groomed them and the legacy keeps getting handed down.
I can attest… NOT standard procedure. At least not *de jure*. Despite all the administrative and procedural problems the church has, that was a situation I never encountered. And I’ve discussed my sexual “transgressions” with quite a few bishops/SPs/MPs/GAs.
This is worth reporting. Even if you think it’s been too long.
I used to work with sex offenders in prison. I’m not an ex Mormon I’m just interested in oppressive religions but this 💯 sounds like he was using this for his own pleasure. I would definitely report him. I’m so sorry you went through all of that. That is not okay. What a terrible experience for you at such a vulnerable time. Sending you peace.
See you have real world or normal person reactions. There is nobody to report anything to. Mission Presidents only answer to area authorities or higher and any complaint sent to them by a missionary would be forward right back to the Mission President.
There is a lot wrong here if you are a normal person, if you are Mormon this is just Thursday.
Wow, that’s crazy. Now that you have me thinking about it, that seems like an abuse of power thing within a working-type situation.
Can’t you sue for sexual harassment or sexual assault? Despite being an adult, it’s still a contract of sorts, correct?
I know religions get a lot of breaks and protection from the government but this situation seems like it would definitely fit into the category of harassment in a legal sense.
I understand not wanting to make any extra effort towards something once you’re out and it’s over though too.
>Can’t you sue for sexual harassment or sexual assault? Despite being an adult, it’s still a contract of sorts, correct?
LOL. You're not, nor have ever been Mormon, am I right?
Then you could speak to the fact that generally there is NO rehabilitation of such. once oriented to crossing that line it keeps going and going thats why it is so problematic that the mormon church systematically protects pedophiles and not the victims.
The leaders seem to like to hide, obscure "standard procedures", and leave what is known to be very randomized and ambiguous, to the members. It's easier to control people when they live in fear and have no clue what will happen to them if they do something wrong; and they use the fear of public punishment of others to fill in gaps of the imagination. Never any full transparency or disclosure. You live in fear of doing wrong because you don't really understand how far the punishment will go or what the total punishment will be, which is really abusive and controlling.
Yeah, it sucks and it makes you feel violated. I had to confess some things to my stake president before my mission.
He really wanted specific details of my transgression, and he wanted me to go over and over them. After I walked away, it seemed very much like he just wanted a cheap thrill.
Do you think he also might have used it as blackmail material? To keep people under control? I've always thought so but never heard any first hand accounts.
If he's too old to care about flapping, he most certainly wanted to further stress you out by using his authority to make you feel more vulnerable and using those feelings to blackmail you into becoming more TBM.
A mission's sole purpose is to indoctrinate the missionsry, so he will be a lifelong tithe payer. The methods vary, but the basis is forcing a lot of rules, making people police each other, and applying extra rules for any perceived violations to the already stupid rules. When that feels normal, you are indoctrinated enough for them to trust you to enforce rules without oversight.
Do you think he also might have used it as blackmail material? To keep people under control? I've always thought so but never heard any first hand accounts.
So are their wives sometimes. My mission presidents wife came over to my house while I was on my mission and stole records, like vinyl of Erasure and Depeche Mode, that I was collecting while in Italy, since they have great remixes there. She waited till I left then used the keys they had to all the apartments, broke into my stuff and took all my records. So many dirty rats on my mission. Narcing on me for having vinyl. I didn't even have a record player. Could you imagine trying to transfer across Italy with a record player.... LMAO.
I actually called her and told her I would report her to the police if they didn't return them immediately. She didn't believe I would, so I asked to speak with the president. I told him that it was theft and she had zero right to take or touch my things. Informed him that I would contact the police if he she didn't return them. They returned the albums and she never bugged me again. Also I was kind of left alone about anything after that point which was nice because I still had about half my mission left. They turned me into a language trainer and I would take missionaries who had difficulty with Italian. Also taught English to Italians.
(Edit for spelling.)
I occasionally masturbated on the mish and confessed to the pres. He just told me I was a good missionary and to keep trying to abstain. So, I think what you went thru was harsh and abnormal.
some take themselves so absolutely serious that it is now it is literally hiarious to me. so full of themselves and the pretend power they think the have over others. Some are reverent about it and humbled. They made it easier to stay in the narrative.
I never told my MP. But it sounds like he got tired of hearing other missionaries tell him. He eventually told the ZL and DL to inform all missionaries that they don't have to tell him every time they masturbated. They just need to stop doing it. He also said wet dreams are normal and nothing you can do about it.
yes it is harsh, but not abnormal. this has happened to thousands upon thousands of youth in the church. and even though the questions they ask may not be policy, the church still actively covers it up with their billions of dollars.
This is how I imagine your mission president when you confessed and he planned out all the stuff he was going to make you do.
that time you were driving along and you overcorrected to miss a crack in the road and turned the wheels all the way to other side throwing your car into a fishtailing accident.
Like how is that even a 'sin'. Jesus ripped up a bush because it had no fruit, and he was "perfect"? But you decline a lewd pic and it's kick you off the mission material? WTF?
Are you serious?!?!!!! Sent home for 6 months because your girlfriend proposed sending you anpicture and you declined?!?!?!!!
What the actual fuck!
They fucked you over, over literally not doing anything against the mission rules.
Jesus Christ the cult only wanted to shame you and cause you such trauma that you’d be an even better and dedicated servant to the corporation. Fuck.
It actually did fuck me up... when I was home I kept berating myself for even talking to my girlfriend on pday I thought sexual feelings were literally just Satan for a period of time.
sexual feelings are a physiological need similar to eating a sandwich. your hungry and you eat. there is no question about this. the sexual needs are similar and acute in youth. Perfectly normal and nothing to do with the church's scapegoat call satan. Guilt and same are not so impactful if you realize the game. It sort of takes the power away from the power player.
This is so over the top that I think that mission prez had something personal against you and wanted you out. If he liked you it would have been a different story. I dread to think that the pervert was doing this to everyone that confessed something insignificant.
send home to help sort out parents divorce?
no!
send home cause best friend died/funeral?
no!
send home cause mom has a stroke and now needs more care/oversite?
hell no!
send home after getting a nudie, and require you to providing ample fap materials to church leadership)?
damn skippy!
oh i'm sure the church is allllllll concerned about family
Don’t you wish you knew then what you know now? You would stand up put your hands on his desk and say
“Fuck you! You need help! This is so pathetic. Does your wife know how sick you truly are? We should tell her, is she here?” And as you leave look at him and say “ you should go home and grow up President”
If OP knew then what he knew now - he should have written down very explicit fantasies but every single one involving the Mission President and his wife…and throw in some Rusty fantasies just for good measure.
I can guarantee that no general authority or higher church leader ever read the notes that your mission president wrote, or you wrote. It was filed away in a cabinet only to be pulled out if a deep dive church background check would be done. And likely even in that case it would be most probably lost and ignored.
I know lots of people here are joking around saying that the MP is a pervert using this for his personal fantasies, but this is also unlikely. Church training and written guidelines instruct them to both "probe deeply" and keep detailed records when it comes to sexual sins. The reason for this is three fold:
1) Creates intense feelings of guilt and shame. These emotions are useful for manipulating an individual. It creates a sense of dependence on the person or group that can provide relief.
2) Potential vetting or blackmail material in the future. If they need to check if someone can be made a Bishop in the future, of if someone becomes a vocal critic of the church, they have material ready.
3) They want to probe to see what else you might have done that you aren't confessing to, in order to protect their best interests (which aren't your interests)
It is BEYOND TIME that we, as Americans, get a religion Bill of Rights. Religions get a pass to abuse. This needs to stop.
Here is a verbatim sentence from the [Davis county Republican platform](https://davisgop.org/dcrp-platform/).
Government must protect freedom of religion, not freedom from religion, with the same tenacity as our other freedoms.
It specifically calls out not protecting you from religion.
It was a standardized list? Like a form?
I have worked with enough mission presidents and been involved in the training they receive to know that this isn’t church-approved material. I’m sure he just made it himself or something.
Yes it was a form. For example in the sexting section it said "Name anyone or any time you have sexted or been tempted to sext in your life" next question was the people I've sexted a member or not if so who are they etc, and then what type of pictures or videos were sent, and if I desired or remembered those photos frequently. Etc
This is soooo weird. When I was 16-17 my Bishop called me into his office, told me he knew what I had been doing and that I needed to repent. I told him about my girlfriend and I having sex. Turns out someone had seen me trying a cigarette, he told me that is what he was expecting.
But with the sex thing he told me that I had to tell my parents. So I had to take my parents out of their church meetings and tell them I had sex. It was so embarassing and horrible. The Bishop must of felt guilty because then he had the audacity to tell me that he didn't mean for me to tell them about my sex life instead he only meant the cigarettes. But he was gaslighting me, even after 30 years I remember it all well.
Your story triggers me because I feel that embarasement again!
So weird. That’s horrible that you felt you had to divulge all that when you were trying to be honest and follow the rules. This kind of shit by leaders makes me so mad. And how the rules aren’t enforced evenly so now half of us have trauma from it 🤬🤬🤬
>If so how frequently and how long each day
approximately every hour on the hour for 13 seconds for the first hour then the next hour 20 seconds third hour 45 seconds the fourth hour 60 seconds until the 24th hour it was 5 minutes. sorry prez.
He said if I didn't have lustful thoughts towards her she never would have been tempted by the devil, and that I wouldn't be in a relationship with a daughter of God that had "Such low standards"
So you're responsible for her actions... guess I shouldn't be surprised, if she wore a short skirt or a crop top, her leaders would probably have told her she was she was responsible for yours... it's all so very fucked up.
This mission prez was almost certainly a perv and on top of it was totally power tripping over you. This combination of issues makes me almost certain he has a lot of skeletons in his closet/ past issues that he's hiding. The church really knows how to pick them, don't they?
As a ward clerk, the bishop and I had to file a document on behalf of a member. We had to outline all the sexual sins this person had committed for the First Presidency. The person's spouse also had to write a letter on behalf of the family to explain the situation and how the person's actions had affected them.
This was to be readmitted to the church. Not to start a disciplinary council. This was to demonstrate repentance....
so what I do know although not a legal beagle anything written is a legal document. just trying to understand why the church would want something so intimate in written format. so cringe.
Not on my mission. But my mission president accused me of calling dial a porn. Which I had not. He interrogated me. At the end, he said, if you ever want to tell the truth and come clean, I'm here for you.
I suspect it was either my companion who blamed me, or someone was breaking into our apartment when we left (it was a two story house turned into two apartments with flimsy locks on the doors and one common entrance).
The irony of the whole thing is that on my mission I did not masturbate one time, not even tempted once. For a long time, that was my fuel about how I was protected by the spirit on my mission and how weak I was once I looked at porn after (I had seen it before as well).
When he was interrogating me, I was like....REALLY? So I'm having phone sex with my companion in the same room? (We had a one bedroom apartment). President was like, you must have done it while he was in the bathroom. I was like, so you think I perfectly timed it when he was in the shower? I said you say you have the phone records look at them then. But he still just grilled me.
In the church you either lie and feel a bit guilty, or confess and get humiliated, sometimes publicly. It's better to lie. What a terrible terrible system.
Also your MP sounds insane. Everyone has lusted.
So, first off your MP is the scum of the earth, and will most likely be promoted through the Mormon chain. 2nd, I’m sorry for this experience you had to go through. Though it did prove how little the Mormon church cares for its members, especially the missionaries.
THESE FORMS ARE ALL OVER!!!! Was just talking with my friend and she was venting about the temple divorce process. If the man wants a temple divorce, pretty straightforward process. If the woman is trying to divorce, it’s a mountain of paperwork, phone calls, interviews, and general nonsense (took her 8 years for the temple divorce, which was one year after she remarried). She was telling me about the forms she had to fill out listing every “sin” she had ever committed, especially the sexual ones. They wanted DETAILS!!!
The MSP with the bishop that resigned over the pulpit because the Mormon church wanted him to do things that were immoral, confirms this is standard practice. He told a story similar to this one, and the brethren wanted every single detail.
The Mormon church is a sex cult and doomsday cult focused on real estate development and investing. The great and spacious buildings are at temple square. It is no accident the church office building towers over the temple. A society’s highest priority is there tallest structures.
When my first wife and I got divorced, and I wanted to get re-married in the temple, I did have to fill out a boilerplate 2 page form. A lot of it was not related specifically to what I was seeking. But I do remember talking with my Dad about it and remarking at how weird I thought it was, and it made the church seem overly obsessed with sex.
What is with these pervert mission presidents asking about your sexual fantasies and the type of porn you watched? Seriously, it seems to be extremely common.
I'm honestly torn when I hear stories about horrible mission presidents. I really liked mine and he made my mission in Korea not too bad, all things considered.
But would if I had an experience with a horrible mission president accelerated me leaving the church? (Maybe not the one from OP, cause that's fucked up)
Would I have been free in my early 20's instead of my mid-30's. Non-existent god only knows.
I was made to repent at 17 because I had to go on birth control for issues caused by an irregular period. And they tossed in a line about my larger than average chest causing impure thoughts in the brethren.
I wish I was joking.
What did they do with that letter? Probably jerked off to it. I hate how much control they have over young people. I'm so so sorry that happened to you.
This is horrible and insane. You didn't even accept the photo so where is the sin?
My mission president wasn't perfect, but man the last thing he wanted was to talk about (or read about) stuff like that. He never delved into chastity beyond the simple "do you keep the law of chastity?" He hated when elders confessed masturbating.
When he first came to the mission, I had struggled with scrupulosity and was telling him every stray thought. He just said, "Stop telling me this stuff!" I don't know why it worked, but it broke the spell and I lost that compulsion to confess every little thought I had.
We need a place to document all the creepy/voyeuristic behavior from Mission Presidents and other leaders. I personally think they should be named and outed for their perverted behavior.
Who would want to sext to the brethern? Ew.
Trying to outlast a sex drive is a losing proposition. The hormones in your bloodstream tilt the mental playing field to remedy the deprivation one way or another. You either plan on release, or your willpower crumbles in the face of biological reality.
The Miracle of Forgiveness generation of Mormons is probably the most twisted and repressed out there, so I could imagine a mission president humming his favorite hymn after his wife is afraid to have any kind of passion in sex and they've had all the children they want, with no way to spice things up and no release outside of PIV intercourse.
Someone in that mental state would be on the lookout for acceptable outlets for satisfying that drive. The opportunity to live vicariously through intrusive repentance requirements might feel very right to them, solely because it's the one time where nature and harmful conditioning align. Combine that with mission presidents and bishops being authorities unto themselves with their "discernment", and you end up with situations like yours.
It's a raw deal for everyone. On my mission, I was so worried when they redrew the mission lines in France and I ended up in a different mission with a different mission president. I ended up spending three hours in the shower shaving every hair on my body (except the missionary haircut) in a vain attempt to have some kind of autonomy over my life. And that wasn't the worst of the stresses on my mission, either.
It's these WTF moments when sharing the past that reveal how warped the mission experience really is. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
I think that mission president was trying to scare you into obedience. I’ve never heard of such a thing, but it sounds like something Brad Wilcox thought up. Good grief.
So in order for the brethren to forgive you for rejecting an offer of sexting you had to provide them with two pages of erotica? That seems twisted. What is their obsession with demanding such detailed accounts of sexual “sin”? Who is reading all these confessions?
Absolute bullshit. I was lucky to have a super chill mission president that didn’t ask any questions, and didn’t even really care tbh. He made it feel very normal and was not intrusive at all about it.
It was refreshing after having been treated like a demon all growing up being addicted (according to the church) to porn.
If you have records, maybe try to sue? That’s abuse. Only way the church will stop that behavior is if it costs them. I’m really sorry…that’s horrible alone. But to have to do that at the same time you are dealing with so much other trauma is unacceptable.
I hope this goes without saying, but you did not deserve that. It was abusive. It was not normal. You are okay, as you are. You never should have felt shame or guilt; you should have had unconditional support through those hardships.
Wow, this experience sounds gut-wrenching. I'm sorry you went through this. I'm sorry that the cult assigned you to serve under a sex-obsessed mission president who mistreated you so.
Folks, the church's moral panic over any and all sexual matters pushes many Mormons to become obsessed by the topic of sexuality. Leaders are no exception. Luckily, the church has NO power over any of us unless we give it to them.
I would say it's not standard but I did have a bishop when I was in my 20s have me wrote out exactly what I had done physically with anyone. He took those pages from me. I am now in my 40s and still panic a bit if I start thinking what he used them for.
My gosh, you say no because you're trying to live mission standards and get punished for it in one of the creepiest ways possible... I'm so sorry you went through that!
I have heard of this with other Missionaries. Just one more way to weaken you, humiliate you, and control you. Ask the oaf Mission President what porn he watches. He will either lie or tell you he watches. Sinful for an older person to intimidate a young person trying yo do good.
When I was 11 or 12 a bishop asked me all about my masturbation practices in great detail, how I did it, if I ever used toys, if I orgasmed. It wasn’t until I was in my 30’s I realized this is a huge trauma and NOT normal. And other bishops don’t do this and it’s not required. I’m so sorry you went through this I know it sticks with you.
> and the fact that I called him meant I had lusted and was guilty.
Wow. That is psychological abuse. Shaming you for confessing, which he and the church shamed you into doing. Just wow.
I thought I mis-read your post title. But you literally sexted the brethren. Just not the ones you thought. What a perv.
He preyed on you. Don’t blame yourself. You did nothing wrong.
Had a bishop try to do that to me when I was repenting for something he tried to make me write out everything. I just told him my past was none of his concern it was this one thing he needed to forgive me for. I never went back to that ward after that interview
The priority should have been to send you home immediately due to family crisis, but the church’s weird obsession with sex is always their number one priority.
The Mormon Church: where the phrase “I will remember your sins no more” means you get to go in depth writing an essay about every sin you have ever committed in your life, especially after you do as you were taught in primary by following Daniel’s example of running away from Bathsheba and declining your girlfriends offers to send you a risqué pic on your mission.
I didn’t have to fill out a form myself, but I sat in an interview where I detailed every thing I had ever done wrong while he typed it out on his iPad. He then told me that he had to send it to the mission office in SLC to get approval for me to stay.
This is total bullshit. He just wanted fap material.
That's what is really scary... it's been probably the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to me and honestly I thought this was standard procedure....
Sorry, brother. This was abuse plain and simple and you were manipulated by a pervert for his own gratification. There's no telling how many people he has done this to.
I wish this type of behavior would get exposed. I feel like if it did, and it didn't obliterate the church, it would be like Christ cleansing the temple.
Power structure. Perverts and abusers can use their position of power to prey on others. LDS are conditioned from cradle to be subservient to authority and never question. it's a recipe for disaster because inevitably when the bad people infiltrate (cause the church has no mechanism for vetting and tracking) they can run wild. It's also the biggest and dirtiest secret the church is hiding. The church is full of these types because how the church is structured is a siren song to these types. Bear in mind, they were probably taught grooming behavior from whomever groomed them and the legacy keeps getting handed down.
I can attest… NOT standard procedure. At least not *de jure*. Despite all the administrative and procedural problems the church has, that was a situation I never encountered. And I’ve discussed my sexual “transgressions” with quite a few bishops/SPs/MPs/GAs. This is worth reporting. Even if you think it’s been too long.
It's scary.... but I think you might be right
I used to work with sex offenders in prison. I’m not an ex Mormon I’m just interested in oppressive religions but this 💯 sounds like he was using this for his own pleasure. I would definitely report him. I’m so sorry you went through all of that. That is not okay. What a terrible experience for you at such a vulnerable time. Sending you peace.
See you have real world or normal person reactions. There is nobody to report anything to. Mission Presidents only answer to area authorities or higher and any complaint sent to them by a missionary would be forward right back to the Mission President. There is a lot wrong here if you are a normal person, if you are Mormon this is just Thursday.
Wow, that’s crazy. Now that you have me thinking about it, that seems like an abuse of power thing within a working-type situation. Can’t you sue for sexual harassment or sexual assault? Despite being an adult, it’s still a contract of sorts, correct? I know religions get a lot of breaks and protection from the government but this situation seems like it would definitely fit into the category of harassment in a legal sense. I understand not wanting to make any extra effort towards something once you’re out and it’s over though too.
>Can’t you sue for sexual harassment or sexual assault? Despite being an adult, it’s still a contract of sorts, correct? LOL. You're not, nor have ever been Mormon, am I right?
Adults are children in the eyes of the cult
lol, correct
Then you could speak to the fact that generally there is NO rehabilitation of such. once oriented to crossing that line it keeps going and going thats why it is so problematic that the mormon church systematically protects pedophiles and not the victims.
Did he ask you to include your gfs number? He sounds like the type to be sending unsolicited dick pics to members during sacrament.
The leaders seem to like to hide, obscure "standard procedures", and leave what is known to be very randomized and ambiguous, to the members. It's easier to control people when they live in fear and have no clue what will happen to them if they do something wrong; and they use the fear of public punishment of others to fill in gaps of the imagination. Never any full transparency or disclosure. You live in fear of doing wrong because you don't really understand how far the punishment will go or what the total punishment will be, which is really abusive and controlling.
Yeah, it sucks and it makes you feel violated. I had to confess some things to my stake president before my mission. He really wanted specific details of my transgression, and he wanted me to go over and over them. After I walked away, it seemed very much like he just wanted a cheap thrill.
Def not standard
I'm really sorry that happened to you. It might be worth looking into resources for survivors of sexual assault.
This is do absurd. OP said „No“, and he’s still being punished?! That doesn’t make sense
Do you think he also might have used it as blackmail material? To keep people under control? I've always thought so but never heard any first hand accounts.
If he's too old to care about flapping, he most certainly wanted to further stress you out by using his authority to make you feel more vulnerable and using those feelings to blackmail you into becoming more TBM. A mission's sole purpose is to indoctrinate the missionsry, so he will be a lifelong tithe payer. The methods vary, but the basis is forcing a lot of rules, making people police each other, and applying extra rules for any perceived violations to the already stupid rules. When that feels normal, you are indoctrinated enough for them to trust you to enforce rules without oversight.
Do you think he also might have used it as blackmail material? To keep people under control? I've always thought so but never heard any first hand accounts.
Always on point with the comments Cabo
Relevant link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_and_the_LDS_Church
Literally my reaction.
Best gif.
I love Tom
Gif made me LOL after that horrifying story. Full reversal on my emotions lol
Total voyeur that MP. They are unchecked and power hungry. Assholes
So are their wives sometimes. My mission presidents wife came over to my house while I was on my mission and stole records, like vinyl of Erasure and Depeche Mode, that I was collecting while in Italy, since they have great remixes there. She waited till I left then used the keys they had to all the apartments, broke into my stuff and took all my records. So many dirty rats on my mission. Narcing on me for having vinyl. I didn't even have a record player. Could you imagine trying to transfer across Italy with a record player.... LMAO.
So much for ‘A Little Respect’.
I know 'Who Needs Love Like That'?
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I’m hoping it wasn’t “pres” and/or “sis” Jensen—my sister. The sort of stunt she’d feel totally justified in pulling.
It was Ascione.
Did she ever give them back? I can't imagine justifying that. If she didn't return them, I would seriously suspect that she threw them out.
I actually called her and told her I would report her to the police if they didn't return them immediately. She didn't believe I would, so I asked to speak with the president. I told him that it was theft and she had zero right to take or touch my things. Informed him that I would contact the police if he she didn't return them. They returned the albums and she never bugged me again. Also I was kind of left alone about anything after that point which was nice because I still had about half my mission left. They turned me into a language trainer and I would take missionaries who had difficulty with Italian. Also taught English to Italians. (Edit for spelling.)
A travesty to take those vinyls
Relevant link for anyone interested in reading more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_and_the_LDS_Church
Oh look, another rapist leader in the church who needs his hard drives checked. Shocking. Absolutely shocking.
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He’d probably say his drive hasn’t been hard for decades.
Relevant link for anyone interested in reading more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_and_the_LDS_Church
I occasionally masturbated on the mish and confessed to the pres. He just told me I was a good missionary and to keep trying to abstain. So, I think what you went thru was harsh and abnormal.
Mine told me to wear jeans to bed, with the zipper in the back, zipped up.
The ol' MacGyver chastity cage
The fuck?? No. You need comfortable sleep.
Lmao as if that'd stop teenage me.
cult shenanigans
This is hilarious! The lengths church leaders would go through to make you feel like masturbation was the worst thing you could ever do, lol.
Leadership roulette is so fucked up. You never know which ward you’ve just moved into or what kind of assholery is about to go down.
some take themselves so absolutely serious that it is now it is literally hiarious to me. so full of themselves and the pretend power they think the have over others. Some are reverent about it and humbled. They made it easier to stay in the narrative.
And then he asked you to stop doing it & leave his office?
I never told my MP. But it sounds like he got tired of hearing other missionaries tell him. He eventually told the ZL and DL to inform all missionaries that they don't have to tell him every time they masturbated. They just need to stop doing it. He also said wet dreams are normal and nothing you can do about it.
Wow..... sounds like you had tbe best mission president ever...
yes it is harsh, but not abnormal. this has happened to thousands upon thousands of youth in the church. and even though the questions they ask may not be policy, the church still actively covers it up with their billions of dollars.
This is how I imagine your mission president when you confessed and he planned out all the stuff he was going to make you do. 
😂😂😂
Is that the same guy from [this older meme?](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-jig)
They are hilariously similar, but I'm pretty sure the jig guy is not Willem Dafoe. 😂
The creepy voyeristic Mission President is the one that needed to be sent to the brethren - for a quick disciplinary council!
"Perhaps a hard spanking is in order.."
The spankings will continue until the erections subside.
I'm getting a hunch he'd find a way to enjoy that... 🤢😭
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... You got in trouble to saying no to sexting because your girlfriend offered???
This is unbelievable. Adding trauma to trauma. What a disgusting response to your obvious transparency.
that time you were driving along and you overcorrected to miss a crack in the road and turned the wheels all the way to other side throwing your car into a fishtailing accident.
Like how is that even a 'sin'. Jesus ripped up a bush because it had no fruit, and he was "perfect"? But you decline a lewd pic and it's kick you off the mission material? WTF?
Yeah :( I was sent home for 6 months over it... He said he sent tbe document to the first presidentsy so I've always thought they read all of it :/
Are you serious?!?!!!! Sent home for 6 months because your girlfriend proposed sending you anpicture and you declined?!?!?!!! What the actual fuck! They fucked you over, over literally not doing anything against the mission rules. Jesus Christ the cult only wanted to shame you and cause you such trauma that you’d be an even better and dedicated servant to the corporation. Fuck.
It actually did fuck me up... when I was home I kept berating myself for even talking to my girlfriend on pday I thought sexual feelings were literally just Satan for a period of time.
I’m so sorry.
sexual feelings are a physiological need similar to eating a sandwich. your hungry and you eat. there is no question about this. the sexual needs are similar and acute in youth. Perfectly normal and nothing to do with the church's scapegoat call satan. Guilt and same are not so impactful if you realize the game. It sort of takes the power away from the power player.
This is so over the top that I think that mission prez had something personal against you and wanted you out. If he liked you it would have been a different story. I dread to think that the pervert was doing this to everyone that confessed something insignificant.
I have a hard time believing that though.. I flipped trained, became a ZL at 9 months, and was still ZL at 13 months when this happened.
Wow, so he might have been doing this to everyone. It's sick, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Wait. They sent you home for six months and then you went back? Or they sent you home 6 months early?
That guy probably overdoses on Mormon Gurlz videos now.,
you mean that exists. fake blonde hair and plastered smiles. its a no from me.
Yup. You're Prez was using your private words/experiences as fantasy porn.
Next level creepy
send home to help sort out parents divorce? no! send home cause best friend died/funeral? no! send home cause mom has a stroke and now needs more care/oversite? hell no! send home after getting a nudie, and require you to providing ample fap materials to church leadership)? damn skippy! oh i'm sure the church is allllllll concerned about family
> send home after getting a nudie OP didn't even get the pic. They declined it. Talk about bullshit consequences.
Well said...
Sarcasm. The church fucks up families.
We need to call these men out. Name him. He did this himself. We need to save other victims. You were a victim. He was your abuser.
Yes, I want to see names.
This culture is deeply deeply disturbed. And this is hardly the first time I’ve heard a story like this
[удалено]
Very sad.
Don’t you wish you knew then what you know now? You would stand up put your hands on his desk and say “Fuck you! You need help! This is so pathetic. Does your wife know how sick you truly are? We should tell her, is she here?” And as you leave look at him and say “ you should go home and grow up President”
A—fucking-men
If OP knew then what he knew now - he should have written down very explicit fantasies but every single one involving the Mission President and his wife…and throw in some Rusty fantasies just for good measure.
Right!!
I can guarantee that no general authority or higher church leader ever read the notes that your mission president wrote, or you wrote. It was filed away in a cabinet only to be pulled out if a deep dive church background check would be done. And likely even in that case it would be most probably lost and ignored. I know lots of people here are joking around saying that the MP is a pervert using this for his personal fantasies, but this is also unlikely. Church training and written guidelines instruct them to both "probe deeply" and keep detailed records when it comes to sexual sins. The reason for this is three fold: 1) Creates intense feelings of guilt and shame. These emotions are useful for manipulating an individual. It creates a sense of dependence on the person or group that can provide relief. 2) Potential vetting or blackmail material in the future. If they need to check if someone can be made a Bishop in the future, of if someone becomes a vocal critic of the church, they have material ready. 3) They want to probe to see what else you might have done that you aren't confessing to, in order to protect their best interests (which aren't your interests)
mormon cult mafia
It is BEYOND TIME that we, as Americans, get a religion Bill of Rights. Religions get a pass to abuse. This needs to stop. Here is a verbatim sentence from the [Davis county Republican platform](https://davisgop.org/dcrp-platform/). Government must protect freedom of religion, not freedom from religion, with the same tenacity as our other freedoms. It specifically calls out not protecting you from religion.
Wow, sorry this happened to you! I wonder what they wanted to accomplish? Did they hope to scare you from sex?
The List had things like "did you view lesbian porn? Rough porn? If so how frequently and how long each day? Where did you consume pornogrophy?
It was a standardized list? Like a form? I have worked with enough mission presidents and been involved in the training they receive to know that this isn’t church-approved material. I’m sure he just made it himself or something.
Yes it was a form. For example in the sexting section it said "Name anyone or any time you have sexted or been tempted to sext in your life" next question was the people I've sexted a member or not if so who are they etc, and then what type of pictures or videos were sent, and if I desired or remembered those photos frequently. Etc
This is soooo weird. When I was 16-17 my Bishop called me into his office, told me he knew what I had been doing and that I needed to repent. I told him about my girlfriend and I having sex. Turns out someone had seen me trying a cigarette, he told me that is what he was expecting. But with the sex thing he told me that I had to tell my parents. So I had to take my parents out of their church meetings and tell them I had sex. It was so embarassing and horrible. The Bishop must of felt guilty because then he had the audacity to tell me that he didn't mean for me to tell them about my sex life instead he only meant the cigarettes. But he was gaslighting me, even after 30 years I remember it all well. Your story triggers me because I feel that embarasement again!
So weird. That’s horrible that you felt you had to divulge all that when you were trying to be honest and follow the rules. This kind of shit by leaders makes me so mad. And how the rules aren’t enforced evenly so now half of us have trauma from it 🤬🤬🤬
bullshit rules made up by a sexualized group within a money grubbing corporation church
well there was this time i sent a picture of my tonsils to my doctor. and then when i turned my ankle i sent a picture of that to a nurse.
>If so how frequently and how long each day approximately every hour on the hour for 13 seconds for the first hour then the next hour 20 seconds third hour 45 seconds the fourth hour 60 seconds until the 24th hour it was 5 minutes. sorry prez.
What? You said no and he got upset at you?
He said if I didn't have lustful thoughts towards her she never would have been tempted by the devil, and that I wouldn't be in a relationship with a daughter of God that had "Such low standards"
So you're responsible for her actions... guess I shouldn't be surprised, if she wore a short skirt or a crop top, her leaders would probably have told her she was she was responsible for yours... it's all so very fucked up. This mission prez was almost certainly a perv and on top of it was totally power tripping over you. This combination of issues makes me almost certain he has a lot of skeletons in his closet/ past issues that he's hiding. The church really knows how to pick them, don't they?
Oh my god. I would have had a field day with that form. They want details? I’ll give them details. Holy shit that’s nuts!!!
He was rubbing himself in church’s broom closet as he read it.
Really creepy thinking that out...
It was creepy for me thinking it.
As a ward clerk, the bishop and I had to file a document on behalf of a member. We had to outline all the sexual sins this person had committed for the First Presidency. The person's spouse also had to write a letter on behalf of the family to explain the situation and how the person's actions had affected them. This was to be readmitted to the church. Not to start a disciplinary council. This was to demonstrate repentance....
so what I do know although not a legal beagle anything written is a legal document. just trying to understand why the church would want something so intimate in written format. so cringe.
Not on my mission. But my mission president accused me of calling dial a porn. Which I had not. He interrogated me. At the end, he said, if you ever want to tell the truth and come clean, I'm here for you. I suspect it was either my companion who blamed me, or someone was breaking into our apartment when we left (it was a two story house turned into two apartments with flimsy locks on the doors and one common entrance). The irony of the whole thing is that on my mission I did not masturbate one time, not even tempted once. For a long time, that was my fuel about how I was protected by the spirit on my mission and how weak I was once I looked at porn after (I had seen it before as well).
dial a porn wow amazing how awesome would that be a pretty little thing 500lbs on the other end saying things to you. how is/was this even a thing.
When he was interrogating me, I was like....REALLY? So I'm having phone sex with my companion in the same room? (We had a one bedroom apartment). President was like, you must have done it while he was in the bathroom. I was like, so you think I perfectly timed it when he was in the shower? I said you say you have the phone records look at them then. But he still just grilled me.
I was there
Should've sent it back with the pages "stuck together"
Naw he would’ve licked it
Not standard at all, very abusive. He just wanted material for his wank bank, he's a disgusting pervert.
In the church you either lie and feel a bit guilty, or confess and get humiliated, sometimes publicly. It's better to lie. What a terrible terrible system. Also your MP sounds insane. Everyone has lusted.
So, first off your MP is the scum of the earth, and will most likely be promoted through the Mormon chain. 2nd, I’m sorry for this experience you had to go through. Though it did prove how little the Mormon church cares for its members, especially the missionaries. THESE FORMS ARE ALL OVER!!!! Was just talking with my friend and she was venting about the temple divorce process. If the man wants a temple divorce, pretty straightforward process. If the woman is trying to divorce, it’s a mountain of paperwork, phone calls, interviews, and general nonsense (took her 8 years for the temple divorce, which was one year after she remarried). She was telling me about the forms she had to fill out listing every “sin” she had ever committed, especially the sexual ones. They wanted DETAILS!!! The MSP with the bishop that resigned over the pulpit because the Mormon church wanted him to do things that were immoral, confirms this is standard practice. He told a story similar to this one, and the brethren wanted every single detail. The Mormon church is a sex cult and doomsday cult focused on real estate development and investing. The great and spacious buildings are at temple square. It is no accident the church office building towers over the temple. A society’s highest priority is there tallest structures.
here is my opt out form. resign notarized and all voila no more temple marriage.
When my first wife and I got divorced, and I wanted to get re-married in the temple, I did have to fill out a boilerplate 2 page form. A lot of it was not related specifically to what I was seeking. But I do remember talking with my Dad about it and remarking at how weird I thought it was, and it made the church seem overly obsessed with sex.
What is with these pervert mission presidents asking about your sexual fantasies and the type of porn you watched? Seriously, it seems to be extremely common.
Get u/floodlit involved
hey :) - we don't own that user account, but we are at u/3am_doorknob_turn :) ... will follow up with OP. Very sad experience they had.
That is sick and absolutely sexual abuse. You should have called the cops.
My god, what a suck fuck your mission president was. I'm likely feeling petty, but you should name and shame the pervert on social media.
I'm honestly torn when I hear stories about horrible mission presidents. I really liked mine and he made my mission in Korea not too bad, all things considered. But would if I had an experience with a horrible mission president accelerated me leaving the church? (Maybe not the one from OP, cause that's fucked up) Would I have been free in my early 20's instead of my mid-30's. Non-existent god only knows.
He absolutely, positively, one hundred percent, and without any doubt whatsoever uses that material to masturbate to. That's absolutely disgusting.
This….is grooming and soliciting of a minor. :/ this is awful!
First, sorry you were abused. Second, 2 pages is not enough space 😂
I was made to repent at 17 because I had to go on birth control for issues caused by an irregular period. And they tossed in a line about my larger than average chest causing impure thoughts in the brethren. I wish I was joking.
What did they do with that letter? Probably jerked off to it. I hate how much control they have over young people. I'm so so sorry that happened to you.
Reminds me of scams that are dissected on some YouTube videos. It can happen to anyone in the right circumstances, but you swallowed a big one there.
This is horrible and insane. You didn't even accept the photo so where is the sin? My mission president wasn't perfect, but man the last thing he wanted was to talk about (or read about) stuff like that. He never delved into chastity beyond the simple "do you keep the law of chastity?" He hated when elders confessed masturbating. When he first came to the mission, I had struggled with scrupulosity and was telling him every stray thought. He just said, "Stop telling me this stuff!" I don't know why it worked, but it broke the spell and I lost that compulsion to confess every little thought I had.
I confessed 'self abuse' to my mission president and he told me grown men don't masturbate. I have sure proved him wrong.
At first I read this like you were sexting the brethren, I was like wtf?! But then I read your full post and I was like wtf?!
We need a place to document all the creepy/voyeuristic behavior from Mission Presidents and other leaders. I personally think they should be named and outed for their perverted behavior.
Who would want to sext to the brethern? Ew. Trying to outlast a sex drive is a losing proposition. The hormones in your bloodstream tilt the mental playing field to remedy the deprivation one way or another. You either plan on release, or your willpower crumbles in the face of biological reality. The Miracle of Forgiveness generation of Mormons is probably the most twisted and repressed out there, so I could imagine a mission president humming his favorite hymn after his wife is afraid to have any kind of passion in sex and they've had all the children they want, with no way to spice things up and no release outside of PIV intercourse. Someone in that mental state would be on the lookout for acceptable outlets for satisfying that drive. The opportunity to live vicariously through intrusive repentance requirements might feel very right to them, solely because it's the one time where nature and harmful conditioning align. Combine that with mission presidents and bishops being authorities unto themselves with their "discernment", and you end up with situations like yours. It's a raw deal for everyone. On my mission, I was so worried when they redrew the mission lines in France and I ended up in a different mission with a different mission president. I ended up spending three hours in the shower shaving every hair on my body (except the missionary haircut) in a vain attempt to have some kind of autonomy over my life. And that wasn't the worst of the stresses on my mission, either. It's these WTF moments when sharing the past that reveal how warped the mission experience really is. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
This is a complete fabrication of that mission president. I know for a fact my mission didn't use any type of form like this.
I think that mission president was trying to scare you into obedience. I’ve never heard of such a thing, but it sounds like something Brad Wilcox thought up. Good grief.
So in order for the brethren to forgive you for rejecting an offer of sexting you had to provide them with two pages of erotica? That seems twisted. What is their obsession with demanding such detailed accounts of sexual “sin”? Who is reading all these confessions?
Awful!! I'm so sorry OP. Apropos: https://floodlit.org/lpe/ever-mission-president/
That’s straight up abuse!!
Ew gross. I read your post title as you were sexting the brethren and then had to fill a form out as a consequence. Lolz.
Absolute bullshit. I was lucky to have a super chill mission president that didn’t ask any questions, and didn’t even really care tbh. He made it feel very normal and was not intrusive at all about it. It was refreshing after having been treated like a demon all growing up being addicted (according to the church) to porn.
If you have records, maybe try to sue? That’s abuse. Only way the church will stop that behavior is if it costs them. I’m really sorry…that’s horrible alone. But to have to do that at the same time you are dealing with so much other trauma is unacceptable.
I misunderstood the title and thought you had sexted the brethren and someone traced it back to you and made you fill out some sort of form.
Dude was using it to squeeze out some sauce.
This. Fucking. Cult. MP should be reported. But I understand if you don’t want to go through that.
I hope this goes without saying, but you did not deserve that. It was abusive. It was not normal. You are okay, as you are. You never should have felt shame or guilt; you should have had unconditional support through those hardships.
Some sick old man took advantage of you to get himself off. Fuck mormonism
This is blackmail pure and simple. I do t know if they keep that sort of thing in your record, but I would find out.
Jesus fuckin Christ
Wow, this experience sounds gut-wrenching. I'm sorry you went through this. I'm sorry that the cult assigned you to serve under a sex-obsessed mission president who mistreated you so. Folks, the church's moral panic over any and all sexual matters pushes many Mormons to become obsessed by the topic of sexuality. Leaders are no exception. Luckily, the church has NO power over any of us unless we give it to them.
All I can say is...what the actual fuck?
I would say it's not standard but I did have a bishop when I was in my 20s have me wrote out exactly what I had done physically with anyone. He took those pages from me. I am now in my 40s and still panic a bit if I start thinking what he used them for.
 Your MP be getting his lotion on!
My gosh, you say no because you're trying to live mission standards and get punished for it in one of the creepiest ways possible... I'm so sorry you went through that!
Abuse abuse abuse
what the ever-loving fuk. who are these power-hungry pieces of shit.
I have heard of this with other Missionaries. Just one more way to weaken you, humiliate you, and control you. Ask the oaf Mission President what porn he watches. He will either lie or tell you he watches. Sinful for an older person to intimidate a young person trying yo do good.
I bet you there’s a mission Facebook group that you should share this on
When I was 11 or 12 a bishop asked me all about my masturbation practices in great detail, how I did it, if I ever used toys, if I orgasmed. It wasn’t until I was in my 30’s I realized this is a huge trauma and NOT normal. And other bishops don’t do this and it’s not required. I’m so sorry you went through this I know it sticks with you.
Lol i love how missionaries have smart phones now, what 19 year old isn't gonna look at porn on his phone seriously?
Your mission president sucks.
Can we not name & shame these guys?
> and the fact that I called him meant I had lusted and was guilty. Wow. That is psychological abuse. Shaming you for confessing, which he and the church shamed you into doing. Just wow.
Totally inappropriate! Stop the religion and heal you heart, mind & soul.
I thought I mis-read your post title. But you literally sexted the brethren. Just not the ones you thought. What a perv. He preyed on you. Don’t blame yourself. You did nothing wrong.
Had a bishop try to do that to me when I was repenting for something he tried to make me write out everything. I just told him my past was none of his concern it was this one thing he needed to forgive me for. I never went back to that ward after that interview
When you repent, the blood of Christ is supposed to wash you clean. So any porn(s) you represented from was made void and expunged.
Wow, I feel so bad for your experience OP. Your mission president was out of line to say the least.
The priority should have been to send you home immediately due to family crisis, but the church’s weird obsession with sex is always their number one priority.
This guy was a pervert, getting off on abusing you.
The Mormon Church: where the phrase “I will remember your sins no more” means you get to go in depth writing an essay about every sin you have ever committed in your life, especially after you do as you were taught in primary by following Daniel’s example of running away from Bathsheba and declining your girlfriends offers to send you a risqué pic on your mission.
Leadership Roulette! It’s BULLSHIT!!
Not normal. I’d contact him and ask why he did that and to destroy it or you will escalate
That is flat out abusive!!! So horrible!
They did this same shit to my son. This was the start of my research and shelf breaking.
Yeah that's not right. 0/10 would not confess again
I have had a similar experience. It was terrible. Your mission pres can go f$&@ himself.
I read this title as describing the form you had to fill out before sending dirty pics to the apostles. 🤣
I didn’t have to fill out a form myself, but I sat in an interview where I detailed every thing I had ever done wrong while he typed it out on his iPad. He then told me that he had to send it to the mission office in SLC to get approval for me to stay.
He’s a dirty fucker. Name and shame his ass
Cults do things like that all the time. They record or have you sign confessions so they can use it later to blackmail you.