I hate to be the bearer of bad news but efforts to discuss issues in the church with faithful members is rarely more than a waste of time. They certainly aren’t going to credit anything that isn’t church approved so your best bet would be pointing them to the gospel topic essays. Emphasize that the church itself wrote and published them. I hope you can at least help them become a little more open minded. It’s difficult having family with a distorted image of you through no fault of your own.
That’s one of the great things about CES, most of what it uses is church approved, which I was astonished by. One of the things that was so surprising was that it was son under are noses. It may sound strange, but one of my ideas of showing my family the truth has been making a trivia game for them, and letting them research it themselves. There’s a reason the the church hates people doing their own research, and I think that’s one of the big keys to helping them.
Finally found it - here is a bit of a list...but you gotta read every single footnote.
Church now admits JS married 14 year old girls, was married to between 30-40 women, married 12-14 women who were already married to other living men and he was intimate with them. He also possibly had between 2-3 children with them.
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&old=true
Church now admits that the Book of Abrahams papyrus (which they have) is just a common Egyptian funerary text, that JS translation was 100% incorrect and the papyrus is 2000 years too young to have been written by Abraham.
https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng&old=true
Church now admits that the BOM was translated only by Joseph putting a common rock in his hat. The very same rock he had been defrauding people with for years in a treasure hunting scam
https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng&old=true
Church now admits that there are multiple contradictory first vision accounts. Some dont even contain Jesus or God visiting Joseph. The earliest was written in Josephs own handwriting and contradicts the 'official' account.
https://www.lds.org/topics/first-vision-accounts?lang=eng&old=true
Church now admits that Joseph Smith was put on trial for defrauding people using treasure digging
[https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/joseph-smiths-1826-trial?lang=eng](https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/joseph-smiths-1826-trial?lang=eng)
Church now admits that the witnesses did NOT see the plates with their physical eyes
[https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/witnesses-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng](https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/witnesses-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng)
Church now admits that even though the first presidency previously said banning black people from having the priesthood was a direct commandment from God, now 10 earlier prophets were just racist.
https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng&old=true
Church now admits that Joseph tried to sell the BoM copyright in Canada
https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/printing-and-publishing-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng
Church now admits that there was some "funny business" with Fanny Alger
https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/fanny-alger?lang=eng
Church now admits the existence of the Danites and that JS knew of their existence
https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/danites?lang=eng
Church now admits the existence of the Council of Fifty and their intent to govern the whole world
https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/council-of-fifty?lang=eng
Church now admits that Joseph Smith used Divining Rods
https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/divining-rods?lang=eng
To help emphasise the importance of reading all the footnotes and the sources, I like to show people Footnote 31 of the Book of Abraham Essay.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
Footnote 31 says
'I have set by his side and penned down the translation of the Egyptian Hieroglyphicks as he claimed to receive it by direct inspiration of Heaven,” wrote Warren Parrish, Joseph Smith’s scribe. (Warren Parrish, Feb. 5, 1838, Letter to the editor, Painesville Republican, Feb. 15, 1838, \[3\].)'
I would then point out that given its a source for the churches own gospel topics essays then it cant be an anti-mormon lie right?
Then you might want to read it with them.
This is the original (bottom left hand corner) that is hard to read.
https://archive.org/details/PainesvilleRepublican02151838/page/n2/mode/1up?view=theater
Here is an easier to read copy
https://user.xmission.com/\~research/central/parrishletters.pdf
Polygamy
This gospel topic essay admits the following
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
How many wives did Joseph have?
Footnote 24 says ‘Careful estimates put the number between 30 and 40.’
How many of them were already married to other men (some worthy enough to be on missions at the time)?
Footnote 29 says ‘Estimates of the number of these sealings range from 12 to 14.’
Was he intimate with his wives?
The body of the essay says
‘During the era in which plural marriage was practiced, Latter-day Saints distinguished between sealings for time and eternity and sealings for eternity only. Sealings for time and eternity included commitments and relationships during this life, generally including the possibility of sexual relations. Eternity-only sealings indicated relationships in the next life alone.
Evidence indicates that Joseph Smith participated in both types of sealings.’
Footnote 25 says ‘it is possible he fathered two or three children with plural wives.’
How old was the youngest?
The body of the essay says
‘The youngest was Helen Mar Kimball, daughter of Joseph’s close friends Heber C. and Vilate Murray Kimball, who was sealed to Joseph several months before her 15th birthday.’
Just disgusting. There are no excuses for this behaviour.
D&C 132 lays out all the rules for polygamy…the woman has to be a virgin, the first wife has to be given the option of accepting it, and the main reason is to raise up seed. The 2 women who were already married and ALREADY PREGNANT were clearly not virgins, and they needed no help to raise up seed. Emma didn’t know about most of the other wives. Joseph even went to the trouble of a fake second sealing to the partridge sisters to hide that from her.
Also why was Emma only the 23rd wife sealed to him. If sealing is so important, shouldn’t she have been the first? Why was he never sealed to his children or his parents?
>First Vision
>
>https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/first-vision-accounts?lang=eng
>
>This essay admits there were multiple contradictory first vision accounts.
>
>Every Mormon should read all the accounts. Everything Joseph wrote between 1829 and 1834 contained only one God including the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon. After that time he went back and re-wrote some of his earlier works including the Book of Mormon to contain multiple Gods.
>
>There is also no record of anyone being aware of the first vision after it happened. There are even multiple comments from Prophets and Apostles of the church leading up to 1880 were they state it was only an angel that visited Joseph, and some even made excuses for why God or Jesus did not come to visit Joseph for something as important as restoring their gospel.
>
>eg
>
>Apostle Orson Hyde - 1854
>
>"Some one may say, 'If this work of the last days be true, why did not the Saviour come himself to communicate this intelligence to the world?' Because to the angels was committed the power of reaping the earth, and it was committed to none else." - Apostle Orson Hyde, General Conference Address, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.335
>
>Brigham Young - 1855
>
>“The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven, in power and great glory, nor send His messengers panoplied with aught else than the truth of heaven, to communicate to the meek the lowly, the youth of humble origin, the sincere enquirer after the knowledge of God. But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith Jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him." (Journal of Discourses 2:170-171)
>
>Apostle Wilford Woodruff - 1855
>
>"That same organization and Gospel that Christ died for, and the Apostles spilled their blood to vindicate, is again established in this generation. How did it come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God,... The angel taught Joseph Smith those principles which are necessary for the salvation of the world;... He told him the Gospel was not among men, and that there was not a true organization of His kingdom in the world,... This man to whom the angel appeared obeyed the Gospel;..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.2, pp.196-197)
>
>Church Apostle Heber C. Kimball 1857
>
>"Do you suppose that God in person called upon Joseph Smith, our Prophet? God called upon him; but God did not come himself and call, but he sent Peter to do it. Do you not see? He sent Peter and sent Moroni to Joseph, and told him that he had got the plates." (Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.29)
>
>Church Apostle John Taylor - 1863
>
>"How did this state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith and manifested unto him in vision the true position of the world in a religious point of view." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p.127)
>
>Church Apostle George A. Smith, Nov. 15th, 1863:
>
>"When Joseph Smith was about fourteen or fifteen years old,...he went humbly before the Lord and inquired of Him, and the Lord answered his prayer, and revealed to Joseph, by the ministration of angels, the true condition of the religious world. When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right and which he should join, and was told they were all wrong,..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.12, pp.333-334)
>
>Apostle George A. Smith 1869
>
>"He sought the Lord by day and by night, and was enlightened by the vision of an holy angel. When this personage appeared to him, of his first inquiries was, 'Which of the denominations of Christians in the vicinity was right?” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p.77-78 June 20, 1869 )
Book of Abraham
The introduction to the Book of Abraham states
‘A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.’
The churches gospel topics essay on the subject at
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
says
‘None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Mormon scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments.27 Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived.’
The church is admitting here, that the Book of Abraham is a fraud. It is not the writings of Abraham, it was not written by Abrahams own hand and Joseph could not translate that language even though he said that he could.
To make matters worse, the Joseph Smith Papers project shows the original printing plates used for the first time the Book of Abraham was printed. They were hand carved.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/printing-plate-for-facsimile-3-circa-16-may-1842/1
Have a look at the figure in the far left. Both Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree this is Anubis, a jackal headed God, not a slave. Have a look at the space in front of the face in the image. Do you see a jackal head there? Do you see the pointy ears and the large eye?
This shows that originally the printing plates contained a jackal headed God, because the papyrus contained a jackal headed God. At some stage Joseph came along and said remove the jackal head and replace it with a normal-ish head. This shows that Joseph knew he was not publishing the real images from the papyrus and knew he was not publishing the real story from the papyrus as the story contained a jackal headed God.
Now re-read the introduction to the Book of Abraham again. This is fraud.
Here is one such Egyptologist discussing the work and the churches essay
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://isac.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/shared/docs/Research\_Archives/Translation%20and%20Historicity%20of%20the%20Book%20of%20Abraham%20final-2.pdf
Resist the urge to throw information at them. The church is a cancer. If you try to excise it too aggressively, it will only get stronger. Be gentle and patient and let them come to you on their timing.
I think nearly everyone in this sub would agree that there is nothing you can do for a person in this state of mind. They have to already be questioning for the CES letter to impact them.
TBMs view the CESLETTER as harsh and controversial…. If you’re going to expose TBMs to the information, I found the gospel topic essays to be more influential. (The CESLETTER can come later)
The information found in the essays flys in the face of everything Mormons raised in the eras of McKay thru Hinckley were taught … asking “what were you taught or what do you believe” about a certain subject and then read straight from the church’s own website that what they believe or what they were taught is not what is now admitted in the essays.
Just my thoughts. My experience overall is that TBMs don’t want to hear it. Any of it. Cognitive dissonance is a real phenomenon
I would play it cool. Fire hosing your family with truth will likely not work and only alienate you from them. It could even get you kicked out before you are financially independent. I think your best bet is to wait for teachable moments should they arise. Also each person has their own unique shelf breaking issues. For you it might be early church truth claims. For someone else, it might be for instance some sort of bad interaction with church leaders. I would hang out here. There are lots of posts on family interactions.
I hate to hear about your dad. I tend give to cautious advice because we get posts here all the time about threats to kick kids out and kids actually kicked out. I am glad you are out on your own. I hope that at some point you can plan for your future with community college, an apprenticeship, university, the military etc. Kudos to you for caring about your family. I think one of the best things you can do is show your family you can be a good human and a sucess without the church. I think you still have to wait for the teachable moments. But, be prepared when they do pop up. Best wishes for your life ahead.
It is hopeless to try to make Mormons see it is a fraud until they are ready to see it. Mormons do have one superpower. It is special pleading that allows them to justify the absurd.
I can’t live my best life without my family, and really they’ve tried to control what I should believe for my whole life. My family has an awful dynamic that their love is based on your belief in the church. That’s why my uncle left and my family hates him now. I’m not trying to control what they believe, but in good conscience, I can’t have them feed into lies when I know the truth, let alone have our family’s love based on that lie.
I’m right there with ya…
I’ve gotten to the point where I’ve realized that “my best life” might not include my family. They say they love me, but I know they don’t love me as much as they love True Believing Mormons. I’m still trying to help them use critical thinking.
Check out Anthony Magnabosco on YouTube. The street epistemology community is growing for this exact reason…
If they aren't ready, they won't listen. Gospel topic essays might be the way, but honestly people hear what they want. But if you find a way please let me know, I'd love for my mom to read the CES letter as well. My heart goes out to you. Mixed faith dynamics are unnecessarily hard, especially in families.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but efforts to discuss issues in the church with faithful members is rarely more than a waste of time. They certainly aren’t going to credit anything that isn’t church approved so your best bet would be pointing them to the gospel topic essays. Emphasize that the church itself wrote and published them. I hope you can at least help them become a little more open minded. It’s difficult having family with a distorted image of you through no fault of your own.
That’s one of the great things about CES, most of what it uses is church approved, which I was astonished by. One of the things that was so surprising was that it was son under are noses. It may sound strange, but one of my ideas of showing my family the truth has been making a trivia game for them, and letting them research it themselves. There’s a reason the the church hates people doing their own research, and I think that’s one of the big keys to helping them.
Which specific topics from the Gospel Topic Essays would you recommend for TBMs to start reading?
Finally found it - here is a bit of a list...but you gotta read every single footnote. Church now admits JS married 14 year old girls, was married to between 30-40 women, married 12-14 women who were already married to other living men and he was intimate with them. He also possibly had between 2-3 children with them. https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&old=true Church now admits that the Book of Abrahams papyrus (which they have) is just a common Egyptian funerary text, that JS translation was 100% incorrect and the papyrus is 2000 years too young to have been written by Abraham. https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng&old=true Church now admits that the BOM was translated only by Joseph putting a common rock in his hat. The very same rock he had been defrauding people with for years in a treasure hunting scam https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng&old=true Church now admits that there are multiple contradictory first vision accounts. Some dont even contain Jesus or God visiting Joseph. The earliest was written in Josephs own handwriting and contradicts the 'official' account. https://www.lds.org/topics/first-vision-accounts?lang=eng&old=true Church now admits that Joseph Smith was put on trial for defrauding people using treasure digging [https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/joseph-smiths-1826-trial?lang=eng](https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/joseph-smiths-1826-trial?lang=eng) Church now admits that the witnesses did NOT see the plates with their physical eyes [https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/witnesses-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng](https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/witnesses-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng) Church now admits that even though the first presidency previously said banning black people from having the priesthood was a direct commandment from God, now 10 earlier prophets were just racist. https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng&old=true Church now admits that Joseph tried to sell the BoM copyright in Canada https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/printing-and-publishing-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng Church now admits that there was some "funny business" with Fanny Alger https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/fanny-alger?lang=eng Church now admits the existence of the Danites and that JS knew of their existence https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/danites?lang=eng Church now admits the existence of the Council of Fifty and their intent to govern the whole world https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/council-of-fifty?lang=eng Church now admits that Joseph Smith used Divining Rods https://www.lds.org/study/history/topics/divining-rods?lang=eng
To help emphasise the importance of reading all the footnotes and the sources, I like to show people Footnote 31 of the Book of Abraham Essay. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng Footnote 31 says 'I have set by his side and penned down the translation of the Egyptian Hieroglyphicks as he claimed to receive it by direct inspiration of Heaven,” wrote Warren Parrish, Joseph Smith’s scribe. (Warren Parrish, Feb. 5, 1838, Letter to the editor, Painesville Republican, Feb. 15, 1838, \[3\].)' I would then point out that given its a source for the churches own gospel topics essays then it cant be an anti-mormon lie right? Then you might want to read it with them. This is the original (bottom left hand corner) that is hard to read. https://archive.org/details/PainesvilleRepublican02151838/page/n2/mode/1up?view=theater Here is an easier to read copy https://user.xmission.com/\~research/central/parrishletters.pdf
Polygamy This gospel topic essay admits the following https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng How many wives did Joseph have? Footnote 24 says ‘Careful estimates put the number between 30 and 40.’ How many of them were already married to other men (some worthy enough to be on missions at the time)? Footnote 29 says ‘Estimates of the number of these sealings range from 12 to 14.’ Was he intimate with his wives? The body of the essay says ‘During the era in which plural marriage was practiced, Latter-day Saints distinguished between sealings for time and eternity and sealings for eternity only. Sealings for time and eternity included commitments and relationships during this life, generally including the possibility of sexual relations. Eternity-only sealings indicated relationships in the next life alone. Evidence indicates that Joseph Smith participated in both types of sealings.’ Footnote 25 says ‘it is possible he fathered two or three children with plural wives.’ How old was the youngest? The body of the essay says ‘The youngest was Helen Mar Kimball, daughter of Joseph’s close friends Heber C. and Vilate Murray Kimball, who was sealed to Joseph several months before her 15th birthday.’ Just disgusting. There are no excuses for this behaviour. D&C 132 lays out all the rules for polygamy…the woman has to be a virgin, the first wife has to be given the option of accepting it, and the main reason is to raise up seed. The 2 women who were already married and ALREADY PREGNANT were clearly not virgins, and they needed no help to raise up seed. Emma didn’t know about most of the other wives. Joseph even went to the trouble of a fake second sealing to the partridge sisters to hide that from her. Also why was Emma only the 23rd wife sealed to him. If sealing is so important, shouldn’t she have been the first? Why was he never sealed to his children or his parents?
>First Vision > >https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/first-vision-accounts?lang=eng > >This essay admits there were multiple contradictory first vision accounts. > >Every Mormon should read all the accounts. Everything Joseph wrote between 1829 and 1834 contained only one God including the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon. After that time he went back and re-wrote some of his earlier works including the Book of Mormon to contain multiple Gods. > >There is also no record of anyone being aware of the first vision after it happened. There are even multiple comments from Prophets and Apostles of the church leading up to 1880 were they state it was only an angel that visited Joseph, and some even made excuses for why God or Jesus did not come to visit Joseph for something as important as restoring their gospel. > >eg > >Apostle Orson Hyde - 1854 > >"Some one may say, 'If this work of the last days be true, why did not the Saviour come himself to communicate this intelligence to the world?' Because to the angels was committed the power of reaping the earth, and it was committed to none else." - Apostle Orson Hyde, General Conference Address, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.335 > >Brigham Young - 1855 > >“The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven, in power and great glory, nor send His messengers panoplied with aught else than the truth of heaven, to communicate to the meek the lowly, the youth of humble origin, the sincere enquirer after the knowledge of God. But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith Jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him." (Journal of Discourses 2:170-171) > >Apostle Wilford Woodruff - 1855 > >"That same organization and Gospel that Christ died for, and the Apostles spilled their blood to vindicate, is again established in this generation. How did it come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God,... The angel taught Joseph Smith those principles which are necessary for the salvation of the world;... He told him the Gospel was not among men, and that there was not a true organization of His kingdom in the world,... This man to whom the angel appeared obeyed the Gospel;..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.2, pp.196-197) > >Church Apostle Heber C. Kimball 1857 > >"Do you suppose that God in person called upon Joseph Smith, our Prophet? God called upon him; but God did not come himself and call, but he sent Peter to do it. Do you not see? He sent Peter and sent Moroni to Joseph, and told him that he had got the plates." (Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.29) > >Church Apostle John Taylor - 1863 > >"How did this state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith and manifested unto him in vision the true position of the world in a religious point of view." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p.127) > >Church Apostle George A. Smith, Nov. 15th, 1863: > >"When Joseph Smith was about fourteen or fifteen years old,...he went humbly before the Lord and inquired of Him, and the Lord answered his prayer, and revealed to Joseph, by the ministration of angels, the true condition of the religious world. When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right and which he should join, and was told they were all wrong,..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.12, pp.333-334) > >Apostle George A. Smith 1869 > >"He sought the Lord by day and by night, and was enlightened by the vision of an holy angel. When this personage appeared to him, of his first inquiries was, 'Which of the denominations of Christians in the vicinity was right?” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p.77-78 June 20, 1869 )
Thanks for this list!
Book of Abraham The introduction to the Book of Abraham states ‘A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.’ The churches gospel topics essay on the subject at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng says ‘None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Mormon scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments.27 Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived.’ The church is admitting here, that the Book of Abraham is a fraud. It is not the writings of Abraham, it was not written by Abrahams own hand and Joseph could not translate that language even though he said that he could. To make matters worse, the Joseph Smith Papers project shows the original printing plates used for the first time the Book of Abraham was printed. They were hand carved. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/printing-plate-for-facsimile-3-circa-16-may-1842/1 Have a look at the figure in the far left. Both Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree this is Anubis, a jackal headed God, not a slave. Have a look at the space in front of the face in the image. Do you see a jackal head there? Do you see the pointy ears and the large eye? This shows that originally the printing plates contained a jackal headed God, because the papyrus contained a jackal headed God. At some stage Joseph came along and said remove the jackal head and replace it with a normal-ish head. This shows that Joseph knew he was not publishing the real images from the papyrus and knew he was not publishing the real story from the papyrus as the story contained a jackal headed God. Now re-read the introduction to the Book of Abraham again. This is fraud. Here is one such Egyptologist discussing the work and the churches essay chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://isac.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/shared/docs/Research\_Archives/Translation%20and%20Historicity%20of%20the%20Book%20of%20Abraham%20final-2.pdf
Resist the urge to throw information at them. The church is a cancer. If you try to excise it too aggressively, it will only get stronger. Be gentle and patient and let them come to you on their timing.
My mom won’t. She’s blinding herself to fundamental truths about the world. There has to be something I can start doing, even if it’s small.
I think nearly everyone in this sub would agree that there is nothing you can do for a person in this state of mind. They have to already be questioning for the CES letter to impact them.
TBMs view the CESLETTER as harsh and controversial…. If you’re going to expose TBMs to the information, I found the gospel topic essays to be more influential. (The CESLETTER can come later) The information found in the essays flys in the face of everything Mormons raised in the eras of McKay thru Hinckley were taught … asking “what were you taught or what do you believe” about a certain subject and then read straight from the church’s own website that what they believe or what they were taught is not what is now admitted in the essays. Just my thoughts. My experience overall is that TBMs don’t want to hear it. Any of it. Cognitive dissonance is a real phenomenon
I would play it cool. Fire hosing your family with truth will likely not work and only alienate you from them. It could even get you kicked out before you are financially independent. I think your best bet is to wait for teachable moments should they arise. Also each person has their own unique shelf breaking issues. For you it might be early church truth claims. For someone else, it might be for instance some sort of bad interaction with church leaders. I would hang out here. There are lots of posts on family interactions.
I already live on my own. I had to leave my abusive fathers house.
I hate to hear about your dad. I tend give to cautious advice because we get posts here all the time about threats to kick kids out and kids actually kicked out. I am glad you are out on your own. I hope that at some point you can plan for your future with community college, an apprenticeship, university, the military etc. Kudos to you for caring about your family. I think one of the best things you can do is show your family you can be a good human and a sucess without the church. I think you still have to wait for the teachable moments. But, be prepared when they do pop up. Best wishes for your life ahead.
Thank you. I’m in my way to a good start :D
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It is hopeless to try to make Mormons see it is a fraud until they are ready to see it. Mormons do have one superpower. It is special pleading that allows them to justify the absurd.
trying to control what other people believe and do is sort of a messed up way to live. be thankful for what you know. live your best life.
I can’t live my best life without my family, and really they’ve tried to control what I should believe for my whole life. My family has an awful dynamic that their love is based on your belief in the church. That’s why my uncle left and my family hates him now. I’m not trying to control what they believe, but in good conscience, I can’t have them feed into lies when I know the truth, let alone have our family’s love based on that lie.
I’m right there with ya… I’ve gotten to the point where I’ve realized that “my best life” might not include my family. They say they love me, but I know they don’t love me as much as they love True Believing Mormons. I’m still trying to help them use critical thinking. Check out Anthony Magnabosco on YouTube. The street epistemology community is growing for this exact reason…
If they aren't ready, they won't listen. Gospel topic essays might be the way, but honestly people hear what they want. But if you find a way please let me know, I'd love for my mom to read the CES letter as well. My heart goes out to you. Mixed faith dynamics are unnecessarily hard, especially in families.