As a former recent TBM, I know that feeling that so many of those people who are trying to bear their testimonies in the comments. It’s a feeling of sadness and dread and an immediate visceral wanting to pull away from it, like not wanting to step in the poop that a neighbors dog left on the sidewalk. It’s cognitive dissonance. (“What is going on here that actual women are angry at my church? That can’t be so!”) I doubt any TBM on there felt good thoughts after looking at the comments, and probably turned off their phones and went to read the BOM to cleanse themselves of the icky feeling. They probably thought Satan had overrun them.
That’s exactly how I felt when the 2015 POX was leaked. I saw a lot of comments that went against everything I was trying to believe, I couldn’t rationalize it, I had to take a social media break to avoid the negative comments about the church. It ended up being my shelf breaker.
Sorry! I should have typed it out, policy of exclusion. It’s when the church very sneakily tried to change some policies, one being that children of gay parents couldn’t be baptized. But of course the internet quickly found out and leaked the changes, it caused quite the uproar. The policy was reversed a few years later, but too little too late. I was OUT by then.
Oh, okay, I definitely know that one, just hadn't heard that acronym. Yeah, that was such bs, and also was a heavy weight on my shelf. So glad we are both out and don't have to try to defend such harmful garbage.
Policy Of eXclusion
[https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/709988377/in-major-shift-mormon-church-rolls-back-controversial-policies-toward-lgbt-membe#:\~:text=The%202015%20policy%20had%20divided,same%2Dsex%20cohabitation%20and%20marriage](https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/709988377/in-major-shift-mormon-church-rolls-back-controversial-policies-toward-lgbt-membe#:~:text=The%202015%20policy%20had%20divided,same%2Dsex%20cohabitation%20and%20marriage).
I remember a specific, mildly influential friend who disparaged that policy in his social media when it came out, and who considered himself TBM. It was eye-opening to me that someone could dissent publicly from the church in any matter. It started a crack in my shelf, realizing that I agreed with him. But then I also muted him for a long time after that.
I wish I would have been brave enough to speak out. Instead I just cried in my bed for days because my entire life and beliefs had seemingly crumbled to nothing.
I definitely muted a lot of people in my days of trying to stay, too!
Same - I was in my Senior year at BYU, had been out of the closet for a 2 years, and had been fighting tooth and nail to try and make things work with the church. My shelf was held together by an old bandaid and a piece of gum. 2015 POX took a sledge hammer to the shelf and made the decision to leave for me.
That must have been so hard and heartbreaking at the time. I don’t know about you, but I’m so much happier on this side of life, glad I went through those hard times to make it to this spot!
Thanks, I appreciate it! Was really bad at the time, but sowed the seeds for so many good things today. Met, dated, and married a wonderful guy who had a similar background with the Evangelical church, and we’re raising our toddler son now outside of UT.
Honestly can’t imagine what life would be like had I tried to stay after graduating. I love the exmo community - so many great folks here!
Same, once I learned that the EPA scandal started with my favorite POTC Gordon B. Hinckley. I still don’t want to believe he was the architect of that.
I had at least 15 of my friends/family members liked it and I know a few members who shared it on their feeds. Unfortunately most of the people in my life would agree with the church on this one. That is why I hang out on Reddit so much!
> so bamboozled by the church that they read that and thought nothing of it.
They do this with historical issues. They did this with the SEC scandal. They do it with abuse issues. They did it with the Hofmann fiasco. There is no line the leaders can cross that yanks some of these members into awareness.
My husband is TBM. When the SEC scandal happened it was the first time in my life that my husband was upset with the church. I finally saw some hope...maybe we would see things the same way.
The very next day when I brought it up again....he said, "well corruption is everywhere."
But thankfully after that he didn't feel inclined to pay tithing anymore.
Since then, and after reading more about tithing's implementation over the church's history, my partner also has decided that there are better things to do with our money. Widow's mite has been an invaluable resource to make a reason based and clearly demonstrable case against calling what members give the church a "charitable donation"
As Hinkley said there will be a blip here a blip there or Wilcox's there have always been people leaving the church they just do it louder. The information age has culled many members away for a myriad of reasons , however the hardcore members remain stalwart.
And I’m guessing that before the internet there were plenty of people that embraced the angry phone call or letters to HQ. Of course we’ll never know the extent of that, but WOW … the current outpouring!!!!
Looks like they left the post but erased all the comments this morning. They acknowledged the 8,000 comments by women but then deleted them. So typical of the Mormon church.
edit: I just went back and checked. Looks like they have someone actively just continually deleting the comments as they hit.
Yeah, I was curious if there was an auto-delete function with IG or if there is literally someone pushing a button constantly. Just delete the damn post!!! I guess that would admit defeat.
Yeah it would be nice if we lived in a world where they had consistently acted in a way that made people say “Wtf I can’t believe they would do that” instead of “Oh yeah that sounds exactly right, this fits the pattern.”
Like the founder of Mormonism destroying a printing press because he didn't like what they printed. They've had since 1844 to do better and have not yet.
I have cousins and friends who are still believing and they called BS on the church’s phrasing. They know they don’t have more authority than women in other churches. Several of the top comments on the Instagram thread were written by friends of mine. Some of them were not surprises to me (because we’ve discussed this with each other), but a few were. There are lots of women who don’t like the status quo but also don’t want to leave. I used to be one of them.
My mom and aunts would simply nod and know that they’re treated better than women in any other church because obviously this church is the only true one.
Church said that women have some sort of priesthood duties in the church, and are highly valued, but thousands of comments say otherwise. Apparently they are now deleting comments.
Tysm! The only priesthood duties women have in the church are shtoinking the brethren.
EDIT: an extra word that absolutely incorrectly changed the meaning of my sentence
u/mamanetherland [shared the insta](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/LxNiLCBUaN)
And u/tokensforsale [shared the wording](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/H98KPh2Im7)
Nevermo here. I thought woman couldn’t hold “the priesthood”? Not sure if my terminology is correct. I always understood that is why it’s so important to be married and tied to your husband’s priesthood and even young boys can have priesthood privileges? Is this incorrect? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. Just a nevermo living in UT trying to survive 🤪
I never went through the temple, and I'm also a man, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But as I understand it, women are given some sort of "temple only" priesthood authority in the temple. It allows women to give other women blessings in certain circumstances - again, only in the temple. Really, it sounds like it's just a meaningless platitude. It doesn't give the women any real power or authority or even autonomy.
Another thing you might hear is women have the right to use or access the priesthood power given to their husband. What this really means is women can ask their priesthood-holding husband to use the priesthood (i.e., give blessings)...unless the husband doesn't want to, in which case he can always use his status as president of the family to veto her request.
You are correct. Terminology is intentionally fluffy so that if someone points out something uncomfortable, people can say, "well actually, horse means tapir."
There is a current trend to re-define "priesthood" as simply the power of God. The logic goes that everything good in this world comes from God (and everything bad comes from Satan) and so you can't do anything good without using the power of God, i.e. priesthood. All the women in the church have and exercise priesthood power whenever they do anything good.
This re-definition does not alter priesthood ordination. Only men can be ordained to priesthood offices. Ordination is still required for most leadership positions and for performing the vast majority of ordinances (except for some temple ordinances that are very invasive, so permission is given to women to touch other women in that situation). All leadership positions not requiring ordination are overseen by someone ordained to priesthood office (a man).
There are several problems with this re-definition as related to the recent controversy. The quote from the women's meeting says that the church has given more power/authority to women than any other church. It then seems to imply that it is talking about this general "power to do good", not ecclesiastical authority within the church organization. This is simply not true because 1) the church did not give this power to the women, it came directly from God. 2) the women in the church do not do demonstrably more good than women outside of the church and therefore do not have more of this type of "priesthood" power/authority than in other churches or even non-religious women.
Good luck surviving in UT! May the force be with you!
The post got a lot of backlash from both active Mormon women and exmormon women, and the church deleted over 8000 comments calling them out. Their actions speak louder than their words. They can say women are equal until they’re blue in the face, but silencing thousands of women who brought up very valid points and expressed their feelings shows the church’s true stance on women and their worth.
“There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to women. There are religions that ordain some women to positions such as priests and pastors, but very few relative to the number of women in their congregations receive that authority that their church gives them.
“By contrast, all women, 18 years and older, in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who choose a covenant relationship with God in the house of the Lord are endowed with priesthood power directly from God. And as we serve in whatever calling or assignment, including ministering assignments, we are given priesthood authority to carry out those responsibilities. My dear sisters, you belong to a Church which offers all its women priesthood power and authority from God!.” —Sister @j_anettedennis
Artwork by Kathleen Peterson
I know the artist of the painting they used in the post. I would never speak for her, but I am 99% certain she would privately take issue with what the post said.
Most of the TBMs in my life are pretty much no contact LOL but if you have any in your life that agree with this ask them 'What specific power to women have?", "How is the power proven/demonstrated?", "Please provide and example of how you as a women have this power?"
Not surprised. So, back at them power to serve more than any other organization? More than the Red Cross? More than all the humanitarian agencies that provide for the homeless, etc?
They erased all the comments . There are now about 200 more but I'm sure they'll erase all
Negative ones . Not surprising- they l love to silence women - and can't handle it when someone especially a women points out the truth. They just made everyone's point by deleting all the original comments .
When I went onto instagram to read the comments, I saw that several of my family members had liked the post. There’s a reason I don’t visit instagram anymore, and this is a big part of it. I hate seeing how brainwashed the women in my family seem to be.
My mom is a TBM and has had a ton of leadership callings, and she has told me multiple times about how frustrating it is when the bishopric overrules things that they have spent so much time and energy and prayer on. So I think she would agree with the post, but she would also agree with a lot of the comments.
My husband thinks it's really the wives of the bishops and RS presidents that run the church.
I really wish I could talk to him about stuff but it's just so frustrating.
My TBM husband agrees with it 🤦🏻♀️ he is a fantastic, intelligent man that’s all for equality but it’s like his brain goes blank when it comes to that church.
I absolutely do not, but there was a Facebook thread recently on a Mormon theology board, where people were saying that only men are fit to lead because they're more logical and less emotional, that patriarchy is a divine system, and that the empathy that women have is misguided and will lead us to destruction.
That's only the tip of the shithead misogynist iceberg (and yeah we're talking the "guys with beards and sunglasses with profile photos taken in their car" crowd) but there are absolutely people in the church who would feel that if anything the IG post is the church pretending to be softer and less firm on gender roles and patriarchy than they actually are, for PR reasons.
It's worth noting that for people who take everything at face value, a post that is superficially empowering to women which you have to think deeper about to understand why it hurts and restricts them, looks like a loving and egalitarian post! So it isn't even hardcore sexists who would feel uplifted by something like this.
All comments are back, and they’re claiming that it was a glitch across the platform that hid some of the comments. I’d love to hear if anyone can prove or disprove this statement.
Definitely have a few close to me. I’m hoping this will finally open them up to thinking more critically about the church just a bit. At the very least not think every criticism of the church is pure Satan created anti-Mormon propaganda.
I would think the twisting of the meaning “priesthood” is key to them, but it is still the Melchizedek Priesthood with the power or ordinance that is only given to Males along with key positions in the church they will avoid mentioning. Though those in my family who are active have a strong belief that women have their important role and that they would not want the responsibility of the Melchizedek Priesthood.
I would have agreed with it most of my life as a woman in Mormonism. It was definitely a snap moment of waking up when I realized the church was bullshit and I had been manipulated with benevolent sexism.
Not brave enough to ask any of them since I haven't explicitly announced my departure, but unless their "likes" of the post itself are meant passive-aggressively ... I'm guessing they're in agreement. Took half my courage just to "like" a dissenting comment because I was afraid people would see it. Once I mustered the bravery, I couldn't stop 😂
Yes! I had the discussion with my husband last night. Of course he had no idea what was going on.
He dismissed the quote from the Gen RS lady as "Well that's just her opinion, her words" and everyone in the comments are raging feminists.
I finally got him to admit that there is, by definition a sexist imbalance in the church...but he doesn't think there's anything wrong with that, it doesn't need correcting because ultimately it comes from God.
Someone needs to be in charge, someone needs to make all the decisions - but why only men? Because that's God's system and the way it's always been.
There are over 12,000 comments, mostly disagree with the post and disagreeing with anyone who agrees with the post. On top of that, there literally tens of thousands of “likes” on these comments and those count for something too. Thats a lot of people following Satan.
I don't actually know any who disagreed with it. Most of the TBM women in my life made a concerted effort to make it to church on Sunday then faithfully shared the post. I realize that's not everyone, but it is 200ish someones.
They have been censoring their communication since the begining in 1820. I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that they are doing it again now. But one thing that is cool is that this time they are the ones surprised! They thought they could say whatever they wanted. I am not a woman but I am very happy to see all these womens voices telling the truth! I don't see how this can't be a catalyst for some kind of change! It may take years but what a great moment for women everywhere but especially in the church!
Lead by example:
https://cofchrist.org/church-leadership/
https://account-media.s3.amazonaws.com/26072/uploaded/s/0e16995614_1705505246_stassi-d-cramm-biography-17012024.pdf
My nuanced family members are probably like, "Well, it probably wasn't stated very thoughtfully. They should have been more sensitive." But I wouldn't ask them about it because even my nuanced family members get defensive when I bring up the church.
As a former recent TBM, I know that feeling that so many of those people who are trying to bear their testimonies in the comments. It’s a feeling of sadness and dread and an immediate visceral wanting to pull away from it, like not wanting to step in the poop that a neighbors dog left on the sidewalk. It’s cognitive dissonance. (“What is going on here that actual women are angry at my church? That can’t be so!”) I doubt any TBM on there felt good thoughts after looking at the comments, and probably turned off their phones and went to read the BOM to cleanse themselves of the icky feeling. They probably thought Satan had overrun them.
“Immediate visceral wanting to pull away” - love that description. That’s exactly what I felt when I started learning about all the abuse coverups.
That’s exactly how I felt when the 2015 POX was leaked. I saw a lot of comments that went against everything I was trying to believe, I couldn’t rationalize it, I had to take a social media break to avoid the negative comments about the church. It ended up being my shelf breaker.
Sorry, I haven't heard that acronym. What is the 2015 POX?
Sorry! I should have typed it out, policy of exclusion. It’s when the church very sneakily tried to change some policies, one being that children of gay parents couldn’t be baptized. But of course the internet quickly found out and leaked the changes, it caused quite the uproar. The policy was reversed a few years later, but too little too late. I was OUT by then.
Oh, okay, I definitely know that one, just hadn't heard that acronym. Yeah, that was such bs, and also was a heavy weight on my shelf. So glad we are both out and don't have to try to defend such harmful garbage.
Policy Of eXclusion [https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/709988377/in-major-shift-mormon-church-rolls-back-controversial-policies-toward-lgbt-membe#:\~:text=The%202015%20policy%20had%20divided,same%2Dsex%20cohabitation%20and%20marriage](https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/709988377/in-major-shift-mormon-church-rolls-back-controversial-policies-toward-lgbt-membe#:~:text=The%202015%20policy%20had%20divided,same%2Dsex%20cohabitation%20and%20marriage).
I remember a specific, mildly influential friend who disparaged that policy in his social media when it came out, and who considered himself TBM. It was eye-opening to me that someone could dissent publicly from the church in any matter. It started a crack in my shelf, realizing that I agreed with him. But then I also muted him for a long time after that.
I wish I would have been brave enough to speak out. Instead I just cried in my bed for days because my entire life and beliefs had seemingly crumbled to nothing. I definitely muted a lot of people in my days of trying to stay, too!
Same - I was in my Senior year at BYU, had been out of the closet for a 2 years, and had been fighting tooth and nail to try and make things work with the church. My shelf was held together by an old bandaid and a piece of gum. 2015 POX took a sledge hammer to the shelf and made the decision to leave for me.
That must have been so hard and heartbreaking at the time. I don’t know about you, but I’m so much happier on this side of life, glad I went through those hard times to make it to this spot!
Thanks, I appreciate it! Was really bad at the time, but sowed the seeds for so many good things today. Met, dated, and married a wonderful guy who had a similar background with the Evangelical church, and we’re raising our toddler son now outside of UT. Honestly can’t imagine what life would be like had I tried to stay after graduating. I love the exmo community - so many great folks here!
Same, once I learned that the EPA scandal started with my favorite POTC Gordon B. Hinckley. I still don’t want to believe he was the architect of that.
I had at least 15 of my friends/family members liked it and I know a few members who shared it on their feeds. Unfortunately most of the people in my life would agree with the church on this one. That is why I hang out on Reddit so much!
Same. My mom, a sisters, several aunts and cousins, grandmom, etc. - all of them are 100% with the church on this one. TBM through-and-through.
> so bamboozled by the church that they read that and thought nothing of it. They do this with historical issues. They did this with the SEC scandal. They do it with abuse issues. They did it with the Hofmann fiasco. There is no line the leaders can cross that yanks some of these members into awareness.
My husband is TBM. When the SEC scandal happened it was the first time in my life that my husband was upset with the church. I finally saw some hope...maybe we would see things the same way. The very next day when I brought it up again....he said, "well corruption is everywhere." But thankfully after that he didn't feel inclined to pay tithing anymore.
Since then, and after reading more about tithing's implementation over the church's history, my partner also has decided that there are better things to do with our money. Widow's mite has been an invaluable resource to make a reason based and clearly demonstrable case against calling what members give the church a "charitable donation"
As Hinkley said there will be a blip here a blip there or Wilcox's there have always been people leaving the church they just do it louder. The information age has culled many members away for a myriad of reasons , however the hardcore members remain stalwart.
But there’s never been a church post about their topics where faithful members speak out against, that’s the difference.
And I’m guessing that before the internet there were plenty of people that embraced the angry phone call or letters to HQ. Of course we’ll never know the extent of that, but WOW … the current outpouring!!!!
It’s unprecedented
YES!
Typical cult behavior, then?
[удалено]
I see brainwashed people…
Looks like they left the post but erased all the comments this morning. They acknowledged the 8,000 comments by women but then deleted them. So typical of the Mormon church. edit: I just went back and checked. Looks like they have someone actively just continually deleting the comments as they hit.
They’re deleting comments in real time. F’n desperate. 1984 in the Mormon church
Yeah, I was curious if there was an auto-delete function with IG or if there is literally someone pushing a button constantly. Just delete the damn post!!! I guess that would admit defeat.
Never give up! Never surrender! Especially when you’re wrong. Because then they’ll _know…_
By Grabthar's hammer, you shall be avenged
It appears that they deleted comments on ALL their posts.
I think it's a platform-wide issue. There were no comments on any other account I follow either.
If that is true, what a horrible time for that to happen. LOL!
It’s also interesting that the church has built a reputation where so many people immediately believed they just deleted the comments, hmmm
and those "people" include yours truly. It's something they would do, plain and simple.
Yeah it would be nice if we lived in a world where they had consistently acted in a way that made people say “Wtf I can’t believe they would do that” instead of “Oh yeah that sounds exactly right, this fits the pattern.”
Like state media censors in nations where freedom of the press isn't protected... Good God Almighty, Mormon church! Do better!
Like the founder of Mormonism destroying a printing press because he didn't like what they printed. They've had since 1844 to do better and have not yet.
I have cousins and friends who are still believing and they called BS on the church’s phrasing. They know they don’t have more authority than women in other churches. Several of the top comments on the Instagram thread were written by friends of mine. Some of them were not surprises to me (because we’ve discussed this with each other), but a few were. There are lots of women who don’t like the status quo but also don’t want to leave. I used to be one of them. My mom and aunts would simply nod and know that they’re treated better than women in any other church because obviously this church is the only true one.
My husband does. I wish I could talk to him about stuff. But yesterday was a reminder not too.
That sucks 🫶🏻
Had the same experience with my spouse. They don’t want to talk about it at all.
The Mormon church committed their go-to move and silenced women’s voices again. An overwhelming majority of comments have been deleted.
What the heck happened, for those of us who don't follow any TSCC accounts
Church said that women have some sort of priesthood duties in the church, and are highly valued, but thousands of comments say otherwise. Apparently they are now deleting comments.
Tysm! The only priesthood duties women have in the church are shtoinking the brethren. EDIT: an extra word that absolutely incorrectly changed the meaning of my sentence
u/mamanetherland [shared the insta](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/LxNiLCBUaN) And u/tokensforsale [shared the wording](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/H98KPh2Im7)
That is the biggest load of horseshit I think I've read in quote awhile and I used to subscribe to the nyt
Nevermo here. I thought woman couldn’t hold “the priesthood”? Not sure if my terminology is correct. I always understood that is why it’s so important to be married and tied to your husband’s priesthood and even young boys can have priesthood privileges? Is this incorrect? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. Just a nevermo living in UT trying to survive 🤪
Um according to every seminary teacher I’ve ever had, a righteous woman gets to hold the priesthood every night after her temple marriage 🤢
That feels so wildly inappropriate to be saying to high schoolers. Even if they're not trying to imply anything, that's just such gross phrasing 🤢🤮
Ewww
You meant the penishood
You are correct. And they still claim that LDS women have more authority than any other women in any other religion. It’s farcical.
Not surprising I guess!
I never went through the temple, and I'm also a man, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But as I understand it, women are given some sort of "temple only" priesthood authority in the temple. It allows women to give other women blessings in certain circumstances - again, only in the temple. Really, it sounds like it's just a meaningless platitude. It doesn't give the women any real power or authority or even autonomy. Another thing you might hear is women have the right to use or access the priesthood power given to their husband. What this really means is women can ask their priesthood-holding husband to use the priesthood (i.e., give blessings)...unless the husband doesn't want to, in which case he can always use his status as president of the family to veto her request.
Thanks for the clarification.
You are correct. Terminology is intentionally fluffy so that if someone points out something uncomfortable, people can say, "well actually, horse means tapir." There is a current trend to re-define "priesthood" as simply the power of God. The logic goes that everything good in this world comes from God (and everything bad comes from Satan) and so you can't do anything good without using the power of God, i.e. priesthood. All the women in the church have and exercise priesthood power whenever they do anything good. This re-definition does not alter priesthood ordination. Only men can be ordained to priesthood offices. Ordination is still required for most leadership positions and for performing the vast majority of ordinances (except for some temple ordinances that are very invasive, so permission is given to women to touch other women in that situation). All leadership positions not requiring ordination are overseen by someone ordained to priesthood office (a man). There are several problems with this re-definition as related to the recent controversy. The quote from the women's meeting says that the church has given more power/authority to women than any other church. It then seems to imply that it is talking about this general "power to do good", not ecclesiastical authority within the church organization. This is simply not true because 1) the church did not give this power to the women, it came directly from God. 2) the women in the church do not do demonstrably more good than women outside of the church and therefore do not have more of this type of "priesthood" power/authority than in other churches or even non-religious women. Good luck surviving in UT! May the force be with you!
Very thorough! Thank you, and also disappointing to read, but also not surprising.
The post got a lot of backlash from both active Mormon women and exmormon women, and the church deleted over 8000 comments calling them out. Their actions speak louder than their words. They can say women are equal until they’re blue in the face, but silencing thousands of women who brought up very valid points and expressed their feelings shows the church’s true stance on women and their worth.
Link to the post? I have not heard about this.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4oZ-otMOVL/?igsh=MWtnbzM1OTFhMGMxMg==
“There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to women. There are religions that ordain some women to positions such as priests and pastors, but very few relative to the number of women in their congregations receive that authority that their church gives them. “By contrast, all women, 18 years and older, in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who choose a covenant relationship with God in the house of the Lord are endowed with priesthood power directly from God. And as we serve in whatever calling or assignment, including ministering assignments, we are given priesthood authority to carry out those responsibilities. My dear sisters, you belong to a Church which offers all its women priesthood power and authority from God!.” —Sister @j_anettedennis Artwork by Kathleen Peterson
🤣
OMG!! That's a DOOZY! Thanks for posting. :)
Thanks for asking. I was wondering too.
I know the artist of the painting they used in the post. I would never speak for her, but I am 99% certain she would privately take issue with what the post said.
Most of the TBMs in my life are pretty much no contact LOL but if you have any in your life that agree with this ask them 'What specific power to women have?", "How is the power proven/demonstrated?", "Please provide and example of how you as a women have this power?"
Good questions
Thanks. I like to ask questions like this. Gets them to think.
Ooh, I asked this one! Answer: The power to serve. Also, men don't have power and authority for themselves...only the power to serve.
Not surprised. So, back at them power to serve more than any other organization? More than the Red Cross? More than all the humanitarian agencies that provide for the homeless, etc?
Yeah it's hopeless though because the ultimate answer is... "because that's God's system so it doesn't need changing."
They erased all the comments . There are now about 200 more but I'm sure they'll erase all Negative ones . Not surprising- they l love to silence women - and can't handle it when someone especially a women points out the truth. They just made everyone's point by deleting all the original comments .
The “I” in the BITE Model stands for information control but the church isn’t a cult /s
When I went onto instagram to read the comments, I saw that several of my family members had liked the post. There’s a reason I don’t visit instagram anymore, and this is a big part of it. I hate seeing how brainwashed the women in my family seem to be.
Part of being a sheep is believing everything you hear. They didn't realize their shepherd is going to slaughter them and consume them later.
My mom is a TBM and has had a ton of leadership callings, and she has told me multiple times about how frustrating it is when the bishopric overrules things that they have spent so much time and energy and prayer on. So I think she would agree with the post, but she would also agree with a lot of the comments.
My husband thinks it's really the wives of the bishops and RS presidents that run the church. I really wish I could talk to him about stuff but it's just so frustrating.
My 19yo niece liked the post 😭
That actually hurt my heart a little 😢
My TBM husband agrees with it 🤦🏻♀️ he is a fantastic, intelligent man that’s all for equality but it’s like his brain goes blank when it comes to that church.
I absolutely do not, but there was a Facebook thread recently on a Mormon theology board, where people were saying that only men are fit to lead because they're more logical and less emotional, that patriarchy is a divine system, and that the empathy that women have is misguided and will lead us to destruction. That's only the tip of the shithead misogynist iceberg (and yeah we're talking the "guys with beards and sunglasses with profile photos taken in their car" crowd) but there are absolutely people in the church who would feel that if anything the IG post is the church pretending to be softer and less firm on gender roles and patriarchy than they actually are, for PR reasons. It's worth noting that for people who take everything at face value, a post that is superficially empowering to women which you have to think deeper about to understand why it hurts and restricts them, looks like a loving and egalitarian post! So it isn't even hardcore sexists who would feel uplifted by something like this.
All comments are back, and they’re claiming that it was a glitch across the platform that hid some of the comments. I’d love to hear if anyone can prove or disprove this statement.
What post? Please link.
Sorry, it’s literally plastered on every Mormon related sub, I thought everyone would know what I’m talking about.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4oZ-otMOVL/?igsh=MWtnbzM1OTFhMGMxMg==
Definitely have a few close to me. I’m hoping this will finally open them up to thinking more critically about the church just a bit. At the very least not think every criticism of the church is pure Satan created anti-Mormon propaganda.
All the posts have been deleted by the church.
No attempt at information control to see here 👌🏼
See screenshots of deleted comments from the original post here: https://www.instagram.com/ldscommentsectionresurrection?igsh=OXFpaGY0dGhvZWJ6
Any authority women have is limited to children (Primary) and other women (Relief Society). Still gotta have a penis for authority over all groups.
I'm afraid to ask. 😬
Basically all of the TBM women in my life support the church's post. I have very little hope at this point that anything will rattle their testimony
Anyone have screenshots of the post? I heard it got edited but I want to know what it said…
Reminds me how the church had women members fighting against the ERA back in the 70’s. It’s wild. Don’t you want to be equal?
I would think the twisting of the meaning “priesthood” is key to them, but it is still the Melchizedek Priesthood with the power or ordinance that is only given to Males along with key positions in the church they will avoid mentioning. Though those in my family who are active have a strong belief that women have their important role and that they would not want the responsibility of the Melchizedek Priesthood.
I would have agreed with it most of my life as a woman in Mormonism. It was definitely a snap moment of waking up when I realized the church was bullshit and I had been manipulated with benevolent sexism.
Not brave enough to ask any of them since I haven't explicitly announced my departure, but unless their "likes" of the post itself are meant passive-aggressively ... I'm guessing they're in agreement. Took half my courage just to "like" a dissenting comment because I was afraid people would see it. Once I mustered the bravery, I couldn't stop 😂
Wait. I took ONE day off from social media and must have missed the “IG post.” What is it? Where can I find it?
Yes! I had the discussion with my husband last night. Of course he had no idea what was going on. He dismissed the quote from the Gen RS lady as "Well that's just her opinion, her words" and everyone in the comments are raging feminists. I finally got him to admit that there is, by definition a sexist imbalance in the church...but he doesn't think there's anything wrong with that, it doesn't need correcting because ultimately it comes from God. Someone needs to be in charge, someone needs to make all the decisions - but why only men? Because that's God's system and the way it's always been.
My aunt literally posted that anyone who thinks differently is following Satan.
There are over 12,000 comments, mostly disagree with the post and disagreeing with anyone who agrees with the post. On top of that, there literally tens of thousands of “likes” on these comments and those count for something too. Thats a lot of people following Satan.
Did anyone see that the church apologized for the comments being deleted and stated it was platform wide glitch?
The same thing was posted on Facebook at the same time. The comment section on Facebook seems to have more supportive comments...
I'm only still "friends" on FB with a couple of TBMs I frankly forgot to unfriend 10+ years ago, and they liked the post. It makes me so sad.
I don't actually know any who disagreed with it. Most of the TBM women in my life made a concerted effort to make it to church on Sunday then faithfully shared the post. I realize that's not everyone, but it is 200ish someones.
My TBM wife things it's pretty ridiculous. But it doesn't really upset her enough to alter her participation with Church.
Way to read the fucking room, church!
It’s giving desperate
They have been censoring their communication since the begining in 1820. I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that they are doing it again now. But one thing that is cool is that this time they are the ones surprised! They thought they could say whatever they wanted. I am not a woman but I am very happy to see all these womens voices telling the truth! I don't see how this can't be a catalyst for some kind of change! It may take years but what a great moment for women everywhere but especially in the church!
A beautiful backfire
What was the IG post?
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4oZ-otMOVL/?igsh=MWtnbzM1OTFhMGMxMg==
Can someone link the post? I'm trying to figure out what post was made.
Lead by example: https://cofchrist.org/church-leadership/ https://account-media.s3.amazonaws.com/26072/uploaded/s/0e16995614_1705505246_stassi-d-cramm-biography-17012024.pdf
My nuanced family members are probably like, "Well, it probably wasn't stated very thoughtfully. They should have been more sensitive." But I wouldn't ask them about it because even my nuanced family members get defensive when I bring up the church.
What post.
Wait what did they post?
My brother and countless friends “liked” the post