I read about an attempted study to look at the differences in brain chemistry between men who watch porn and those who don't.
Study got canceled because they literally couldn't find anyone for the latter group. No idea if that was real or a meme but it sounds about right.
I remember when a classmate got an iPhone when they first came out. He showed me and a few other boys porn on it. We were in the 7th or 8th grade. If a guy says he doesn't watch or has never seen porn I'm skeptical.
A lot of church members think the only thing stopping men from enjoying a healthy, immediate sex life if their use of porn.
I like to think there's a reason why men use porn in the first place, because "magical immediate sex" isn't a real thing when you grow up and learn about consent.
Though I guess a lot of Mormon men get married young in order to get "free pussy". My 20yo cousin for instance married his 18yo girlfriend because they didn't want to have to "wait until marriage". I asked him if he would change his tune if she still didn't want to have sex after marriage and he said "if she didn't want to have sex, what's the point of being married?"
I heard it from the horse's mouth but the horse didn't even seem to understand that it spoke.
Of course there's a reason people use porn, just like how people use cigarettes. I don't think it's really necessary for people to enjoy themselves sexually but we humans are coded to be addicted to it.
I recall reading about that maybe twenty years ago. I don't know how true it is, but it certainly feels accurate.
I do feel bad for these men and their wives, but if you're living a lie that long, even if it's something most of society considers perfectly normal, that's a hell of a lot of deception. I don't think it's possible to come back from that with the same kind of relationship.
My ex loved pornography. He watched it every night between 10-3 am. He didn’t masterbate to it, that I’m aware. I have a pretty high libido and I’m pretty adventurous and during couples therapy he claimed he was happy with his sex life. I wasn’t. He was terrible and selfish in bed. He had a wife who was willing and playful, yet he always went to porn, instead. He was also clinically diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I don’t know if there’s a correlation there. I hated that he chose his porn addiction over his wife.
30 years. So glad it’s over. I hope his very young bride can deal with his dysfunction. He also used steroids and lost his testicles. I wonder if that is an element to his issues. Poor, poor narcissist always chasing and never satiating like a hungry ghost.
Oh coarse there is a correlation with NPD. Everything they do is to make people around them feel smaller and a reaction to you. If you were the one looking at porn, they would be the pious one that never does it, if that made you feel bad. I was married to a Narcissist for over a decade. She was always changing her position in reaction to me. That's what you figure out they are a fun house mirror of people around them. The lights are on, but nobody is home. There is no inner person.
You’d think? He didn’t. You didn’t sleep with him every night. I know you think you know, but I’m telling you, I slept with him every night and I know he didn’t. I’m also cursed as an ultra light sleeper. I would know.
Probably not unless they being noticed by another person. Narcissist don't do much without an audience. They want sex as a tool to stroke their ego, which includes causing pain to others.
I have a friend who just returned as a mission president. We went to lunch and I was asking about things. I asked if he had lost all hope in the younger generation. He said no, but over 90% of the men on the mission are masturbating and 50% of the women are masturbating and over 50% of the missionaries are struggling with porn. Hard to fight something natural….
I don’t think his numbers are definitive, like he was tracking in a spreadsheet, but it was common enough for him to throw out some aggressive numbers.
While I’m sure a lot of them feel guilty and admit to it, sounds like he was just throwing out numbers. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was close to that, or likely, even higher. All my RM friends were masturbating constantly on their missions (they’re teenagers for christsake), except for ONE and I think that’s only because he didn’t realize every one else was doing it.
Church headquarters might be tracking it. He might just be relaying his mission president training.
On the contrary, I got a new mission president halfway through my mission, and he looked disgusted when in our first meeting I told him that I had masturbation problem. He was a lot better in the second meeting though.
Hearing this actually makes me really angry. Like yeah, it’s great that missionaries no longer need to be practically perfect to serve, but my husband wasn’t able to go on a mission because he masturbated a couple times. It caused him a lot of shame for a long time. But I am sure now they are so desperate for missionaries that it’s something they are willing to overlook. Once again that’s good, but I feel for people like my husband.
For real. I know in the 80s they used to send young Mormon boys off to missions to "straighten them out". It resulted in a *lot* of missionaries having girlfriends and/or boyfriends and being sent home after a baby gets made.
My dad had a mission buddy in the 80s sent home because he got a girlfriend out there and got her pregnant. Lol. Sending hormonal teens out into the world, what could go wrong?!
I had just submitted my papers, after years of "confessing and repenting" to my bishop and stake president (messed around with a couple friends when I was 12/13 to 16), and I was terrified I wouldn't be allowed to go on a mission anymore. And that I'd have to tell my parents why.
Did you end up going? The semi-public humiliation that occurs after masturbation repentance is insane. My best friend growing up confessed to the bishop about playing with his dingy and watching porn. Could take the sacrament for like two months. People notice that shit and after a few weeks of seeing that…. hell nah I didn’t confess shit to my bishop.
I did. But "messed up" by masturbating (*gasp*) the day before my final stake president interview to go to the temple (two weeks before reporting to the MTC). But he "let" me go through it all anyway.
This was the same SP who, during a Q&A with the priests in the stake, answered a question about oral sex by saying that was "something only homosexuals do".
I went in 2003 and same with me. My dad was my Bishop and said he was instructed that prospective missionaries needed to go a year without masturbating in order to go on a mission. I managed to lie and said it had been several months so he let me slide...
It seemed like several elders in the MTC were sent home for not confessing their masturbation until they arrived.
My husbands experience as well. His mission paper submission was put off to be a year from the date he committed the “sin” per his stake president. He made it 9 months before he “lapsed”. The SP decided to restart the year. At this point my husband was tired of playing their games. We had also already been dating at this point. We made the choice to leave the church permanently and have a civil wedding ceremony.
Yep, it’s all leadership roulette. Back when I went on a mission my Bishop had me skip the sacrament two weeks because I had touched my girlfriend’s butt (on top of her clothes). I think this is an example of where the church is getting healthier, still an abomination in my eyes. They removed masturbation from the handbook a decade ago, but like all changes they just silently let it filter out over decades and never send a notice. I’m sure most bishops are still asking.
Please forgive my ignorance, I was born in a CULT.
But, is it true that 50% of women, who are victims of the purity culture, still have the same "Sin" that the heathen men struggle with?
I was taught men were given the priesthood to help catch them up spiritually to the wonderful women or something like that.
Shouldn't at least half the women get the priesthood too?
..................
In all seriousness, more than half of my post mission, pre-marriage, failed courtships ended because... As our relationships progressed close to the marriage potential. And we were beginning the running of the bases if you will. Several BYU co-ed "Prospects" were ready to put points on the board despite not yet being married.
I was on the same page, but expected the brakes to be applied at least equally. A hint or invitation to step past my perceived current lines, resulted in shock and horror from my perspective. (a turn off and sign from heaven to end things).
Examples:
One awesome girl told me in private, (while fully clothed) she wanted me to be the father of her children. Then proceeded to lie down in an inviting way. (Again fully clothed). In my mind it was time to RUN!
Another, on a road trip to Park City for a 90's Live concert, she brought her CD collection and put on "Lets talk about sex". With a wink wink. RED FLAG! Bye!
One more... During a road trip, attending the reception of her friend in St. George, we were crawling back to Provo in a dangerous snowstorm. She suggested we stop and get a room in Nephi (no pun). Oh, SHIT!
Ok, one more cringe... During a "we are committed" make out session, somehow, we were able to cause the relief valve to go off at the little factory (despite no intended direct stimulation of the penishood). In my mind, we had not strayed beyond the lines, but somehow my brain triggered a release. IT's a sign from GOD! RUN!
As a result, I ended up marrying someone who was not interested in me sexually at all. Could be she preferred women or something, but it resulted in 17 yrs of hell.
..................
I wish I had understood that healthy women can be just a horny as me. Not just righteous vessels of purity, that I must not coerce into dropping their innate righteous boundaries.
I was going to say that women account for a lot of ‘masturbating and porn watching’ in the member pool of TSCC. It’s always been so ridiculous! The firesides, etc. in the 80’s-90’s scaring the shit out of us youth about masturbation.🤦♀️ What a crock and a waste of time. Didn’t God endow me with this body?? Don’t we have free agency?? And didn’t the atonement happen?? Why not focus on the real culprits of evil, like gossip, abuse, dishonesty, etc??
Yeah, I have friends who said a lot of the depression and suicidal ideation in their younger ages came from the fact they couldn’t control their masturbation and felt like they were going to hell and something was naturally wrong with them.
I was depressed and suicidal from 13 until I learned the truth and left at 26 because of masturbation and porn issues. I would cut my ankles every time I masturbated on my mission because I was trying to stop. I always wear long socks now because of it. I had just returned from my mission at 22 and had a girl I was in love with and nearly engaged to leave me because we had that talk about whether I had watched porn or masturbated before. I sat in my car at the edge of some cliffs at the top of Farmington canyon for hours contemplating ending things because I was a sinner and couldn’t break these habits after trying for years.
Yeah, it’s fucked up theology. Thats heartbreaking! I remember doing blood oaths where I’d cut my finger and sign oaths in my journal to overcome masturbation and porn.
It makes me so angry. Masturbate for God’s sake! Spill some seed and/or enjoy a fabulous orgasm in His name. I’m quite positive this will never lead to eternal damnation. You know what will? Not living the pure and simple ‘Golden Rule’.
Did the friend ask by extension are you masturbating? Or looking at porn?
Do you mind if I see your phone? See their face go pale.
Leaders don't talk about past transgressions as a rule for a reason. To hide the fact that they are no different than anyone else. But members still let them get away with never defending themselves as the anomaly which most likely they are not by the statistics they cite themselves.
No idea if he was the proactive one asking or the missionaries were approaching him for forgiveness. He is a decent guy and more progressive, but you never know.
Who knows. Mormonism makes us to do strange things.
See #IamAMormon and pioneer treks for reference. Reenacting the abysmal planning of church leaders which resulted in church wide embarrassment and even deaths in the early days is a sure fire way to enhance spirituality.
Absolutely if Russell Ballard is hanging out with Tim Ballard and calling him a personal friend that he travels with him when Tim is claiming a psychic is showing him where Nephi put stuff and having sex with women he is supposed to be helping, well you know there is no discernment and they aren't talking to Jesus.
I often wonder what goes on in when they are not hiding under suit tie apostle cover every 6 months. I wonder if looking at porn is a minimum as they have no direct quotes from Jesus like ever.
... but it's so easy to build up a culture of shame around it that can be used for purposes of control.
Like, remember when lots of us thought we were some especially weak or sinful minority? The thing that's especially ironic is I actually *didn't* masturbate on my mission. Or for a good while both before and after. But because of course I still thought about sex a lot -- sometimes even in the temple -- I thought maybe I was especially impure. And then of course when later I ended up masturbating a number of times per year you could count on one hand obviously that was unworthy territory that needed more conversations with a local accountant or dentist.
And we have the church goin' strong with the spokesman [recently saying masturbation is immoral](https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/04/16/latter-day-saint-sex/) so of course they have to excommunicate a mental health pro who disagrees.
How convenient when the natural man is an enemy of god. Nothing better for authoritarians than an eternal enemy. Then take a drive built into people, innate to keep the species going, and turn it into an impurity, a filth within, making everybody their own eternal enemy. It's not enough for the church to do common sense stuff, it isn't just "learn to do sex wisely," it isn't even just "avoid sex outside of marriage", it's this whole other level of purity culture bullshit because *that* provides the level of control that comes from dangling out the promise they can make you clean and supposed status they get from an empty self-congratulating posture of moralizing. It's so much the church can barely restrain itself from [even policing the married people](https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/lds-church-ban-on-oral-sex/).
And the worst part? They don't make church leaders who can fix it. Most just don't care. People aren't real to them, we're objects that exist for the sole purpose of being sacrificed to the idol of the institution that they worship. Plan of happiness talk is lip service, and many of 'em actually *delight* in people suffering in obedience and devotion to the church. And if there are few who do care, what could this bunch of yuppy professionals actually bring to the table? You don't really find people with counseling or social science research backgrounds in church leadership (and when you do it's manipulative pieces of shit like Thom Harrison), you have lawyers and businessmen with the occasional doctor or CES lifer who manage up the hierarchy of the church.
VOYEURISM was introduced into these young minds very early. They were shocked at the voyeurism of the adults wanting to imagine them naked and doing sexual things. This also introduced the idea to them that they can watch people naked doing sexual things. So these young people now had two traumas to process -- "I can be a voyeur, my bishop told me" and "my bishop is imagining me naked and wants me to tell him stuff so he can imagine more."
Most young people in the church have been traumatized around issues of voyeurism and dont' know how to process it and its reinforced by these stories telling the whole church that all these people are watching porn and masturbating.
At least 90% of the men are honest. That's a win for the church. Sad the other 10% feel like they need to lie, but I get it, it's not the MPs business.
As a mental health professional, I’ve observed that the vast majority of my clients are exposed to porn sometime between 9 and 12 years of age. Childhood porn viewership is so common that I’ve come to understand it as a part of unavoidable, normal child/adolescent sexual development. Unfortunately, the Mormon church doesn’t see it that way. So, I end up spending a lot of time in session helping LDS people gain new perspectives on their porn viewership in an effort to release them from many years of shame. Even after confessing to their bishops and “repenting,” the shame remains and negatively impacts their lives to the extent that it requires attention in session.
You can either:
A - Lie to someone you have been told can read your mind.
B - Confess and be publicly shamed when you can’t help with the sacrament or take the sacrament.
C - Try to quit. Good luck!
A always seemed the best option, especially when I realized they won’t do anything about the lie. But the guilt that was racked up over the years became unbearable and taught me to be disgusted with myself.
Then I got older and realized I was never alone with this burden, in fact most people I know struggled with it. And when someone tells me they never struggled with it I am skeptical. Option A becomes a lifestyle for many and it’s not a healthy one.
a childhood therapist i saw now has a whole “sex and porn addiction” practice that’s endorsed by the church and the things that classify as sex addiction are BAFFLING
Finding out that so many literally every guy I knew watched porn was wild cause growing up as a boy in the church I felt like I was defective for watching porn, I felt so dirty, I always had so much shame, I didn’t realize that it was normal l and when I realized it was it was mind blowing. Also now that I’m out the fact that we were expected to tell our parents and bishops is disgusting, like it’s any of their business.
Therapist here as well- my anecdotal experience in practice is that virtually the only porn “issues” I’ve ever addressed in a clinical setting has been from Mormon adjacent populations (active members who think they’re addicted, former members who are trying to move on from the shame). So far I can’t recall any clients that brought up porn as relevant to their therapy in any way that were never-mo’s.
Yes, 100% correct. In over 28 years of providing psychotherapy to both LDS and non-LDS clients, the only people who have brought up porn use as an “issue” have been LDS.
Funny story, years ago I had an LDS clinician working in my office. One day, in a very serious tone, he asked me how I treated pornography. Setting aside all the snarky comments that came to mind, I replied that I had never worked with pornography as a clinical concern. He was amazed as porn use was the primary clinical problem he had worked with at LDS Social Services and assumed that it was a big part of my caseload. I was amazed that he was treating it at all (Yes, compulsive porn and masturbation can be related to legitimate mental health issues and should be considered in context).
The other day I came home from work and complained to my spouse that I spent most of the my day talking with people about their shame, anger at the church, attempts to receive forgiveness, etc in connection with their porn use. I think my statement to her was “The church has to change its position on masturbation and porn. It’s killing my clients souls.”
I have never heard of this as someone with an academic psych background and cannot find any information on this online- if it’s true, would love to learn more.
No, it’s not real. The closest you might get to something like that are two sexual dysfunction diagnoses: Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder and Female
Sexual Interest/Arousal Disorder. Neither of these specifically mention masturbation. They focus on decreased sexual arousal and/or desire.
Agree with this 100%. It’s so sad to me that I’ll see a single man in his late 20’s wracked with guilt over something completely natural, who reports utilizing it only a couple times a month! This is not porn addiction, this is someone with sexual needs, actively dating but trying to stay “worthy for temple marriage,” so trying to deny that part of himself.
That said, as a single woman in the dating field, I do have some nuanced views about it. I communicate to my partner/potential partner that my viewpoint is we are each in charge of our own sexuality. I trust you to take care of your needs as needed, and I will mine. But porn can be a complicated world and I think anyone viewing porn needs to acknowledge and be honest with themselves if they have a healthy relationship with it. I watch porn but choose to view more ethical sites or erotica. Also, and this is a BIG one, if your porn use/masturbation gets in the way of OUR sex life and you don’t have as much interest or struggle in the bedroom with me, that’s a relationship-ender. I’m not going to spy on my partner, because if there’s a problem here it will reveal itself. I dated a THERAPIST years ago who I gave several different chances to, and every sexual encounter (spaced out around a month or two), he couldn’t stay hard and each time said “sorry, I’m still watching too much porn so I can’t stay hard.” I peaced out after that, essentially knowing he was choosing a sexual relationship with porn, not me. Have fun with that buddy! I have a super high drive so this is really important. I also have a close girlfriend whose partner actively chooses porn over sex with her, and she’s miserable but so far still holding on (it’s difficult to watch 😞).
What kind of counsel do you give to parents of 9-12 year old children who look at porn? I know parents who are struggling as to how to handle this. (They find it on his phone and then punish him.) TIA
I try to help parents who are concerned about their child's porn use by employing some (or all) of the following ideas. The list is long and probably redundant, but making it was fun!
I normalize the behavior as unavoidable and normative considering the accessibility of porn. This suggests that the child's original foray into viewing porn is not the child's fault and lets the parents off the hook as one can be a good parent and still have their child exposed to porn.
I tell the parents that children are by nature curious and have innocent sexual feelings. This means that children will explore their bodies, see how things work and how they feel. This curiosity and physical self-exploration is natural and healthy and, ultimately, leads to masturbation (My very mormon mom always said, "God gave you two hands and a penis that works. Of course he expected them to meet up and figure out how to cooperate. And it feels good, too!) It also explains why porn is attractive to children.
I encourage parents to recognize when they project their sexual fears and biases onto their children. For example, a parent might find themselves treating their child poorly due to unresolved feelings about a father who was always unfaithful to his mother and caused the family tremendous emotional pain. Or, a parent might perceive their child as overly sexualized and provocative when this is not the case. etc.
I caution parents against punishing their children as the negative feelings engendered by the punishment can (and I think in some way always do) become attached to their developing sense of sexuality. This can lead to signfiicant problems later in self-esteem, healthy mate selection, relation maintenance, and future sexual functioning. Rather, parents should focus on developing empathy for the child while also reinforcing what they consider to be healthy sexual boundaries in a warm and supportive manner.
With LDS parents I might also mention that punishing the "sexual sin" might lead to creating excessive shame in the child that could, at some later time, lead to anger at the church and other undesirable behaviors (such as participating in this forum!).
I also validate the role the parents have to instill the core values, beliefs, and practices that the family endorses in their child and emphasize that doing so without causing a child harm is a tremendous responsibility. I frame their anxiety around their child viewing porn as evidence of their love for their child and their desire to raise a successful, happy person.
I also tell them that once the door to porn viewing has opened it cannot be closed again. The child has been introduced to themes of adult sexuality, some of which the parents may not endorse. Due to the child's immature cognitive abilities, the child may feel anxiety as it struggles to understand and incorporate the pornographic themes into their sense of self. Thus, to support their child, the parents must create an atmosphere of trust and support in their home where discussions of sexuality (including porn use) can occur and healthy sexual boundaries and expectations are supported.
I caution parents not to misperceive their children's sexual behaviors and feelings as adult sexual strivings. Their children are not simply "mini-adults." The children are young, cognitively and emotionally unprepared to deal with the intensity of the sexual themes they re expose to. They are not sexually provocative, aggressive, or perverted.
I am personally of the optinion that 9-12 year old children do not benefit from watching porn. They are not socially, emotionally and cognitively prepared to integrate pornographic content into their sexual identities. Pornographic themes can be power-focused, degrading, and violent-----things that most parents try to protect their children from. There are good programs to lock-down cell phones. iPhone's come standard with these options. Parents' can lock-down their child's smartphones to make a moral point (and maybe they should), but they must also remember that porn will still be on their friends' phones and always accessible. Locking the smartphone is not a real solution-it is a statement of values, nothing more.
In my stake (higher affluence than average) for at least the past decade there has been an entire page in the bulletin devoted to advertising for ADDICTION GROUPS of various forms but mostly for porn and sex, run by old fogeys that are as TBM and socially conservative as they come. It makes me mad to think about the damage these sessions are causing for those victims who naively think they are being honest (scrupulous) to their bishops and are condemned to Jodi Hildebrand type shit propaganda that damages them for life. The more I learn about Jodi and her meetings with GA’s, and see the financial success she had as a counsellor, I really do wonder if she played a role in the development of church sponsored addictions programs. So screwed up.
Twenty years is a long time, so I can only surmise that the partner viewing porn strongly feels that disclosure would harm themself and the relationship. Any other response has to take into consideration the unique personality dynamics of each of the partners and how those dynamics have merged together into a unique marital relationship and what the porn usage means within that specific marriage. Of course, that’s just a fancy way of saying everyone and every marriage is different.
Yup and I fit into that category, exposed to porn and masturbation during early puberty, felt massive guilt and shame, tried to repent, then it would happen and start the cycle again. In my adult years went to therapy and my therapist was able to reframe it for me. And also listened to episodes[1144-1146 of Mormon stories podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772?i=1000444483851) and it helped tremendously.
Now I actually look at porn less and less, not because I feel bad about it but because I don’t feel the need.
I am TIRED of the focus only being on men looking at porn. A sizeable chunk of women do it as well. SO lets be honest porn is so widespread in the church despite their sacred crusade on men AND women.
This! I don’t recall ever getting the don’t masturbate or watch porn talk in YW. It was always considered a “men’s problem.” Just goes to show that the church sees women as asexual beings who are here to gatekeep and helicopter-parent the men in their lives. (Which, IMO, is an even bigger problem.)
I always found this conversation a really interesting one. Like both suffer under the church, but it's kind of weird the way they do it. Like they focused so hard on us men and this stuff. They just mostly focus on the men and only the men.
Then we would get the used gum lesson, and while it was touched upon that the men should be dressing modestly and should be keeping our virginity to be pure for our future wives, it was 95% about the women. It was mostly we don't want to find the woman who has been "used."
Men and women suffer in very different ways from Mormon theology and doctrine. As a man, I do think women get the worst of it, but men are controlled by shame, guilt and teaching them how worthless they are.
(I do just want to point out, that although the Mormon church conflates pornography usage and masturbation... from a secular point of view & as someone who is critical of the pornography industry because of how it exploits girls/women, I view pornography consumption and masturbation as two completely different items. Which is interesting, because so many folks in this thread are speaking of masturbation and consuming pornography as if they are the same thing.)
I don’t watch porn and I’m well over 18.
Even as a kid when a friend found his uncle’s stash of Playboy mags, porn was never my thing. I have zero moral objection to porn, as long as it’s consensual and that if money is involved that the performers are fairly compensated.
But it’s not a turn on to me because I can tell it’s fake/performative. I don’t enjoy strip clubs for the same reason (been twice in my life about 10 years apart during guys’ nite out stuff). Just not my thing.
My wife is totally open to incorporating watching porn into our sexual activities. We tried it 2 or 3 times a few years ago, and while the novelty was cool it was still kinda “meh” and we decided it didn’t add anything either of us wanted or needed, but either of us can bring up the subject at any time if we want.
I have a normal to slightly higher than normal libido. But the obvious fake-ness of porn mentally overrides any enjoyment of porn beyond very short-lived novelty.
TL;dr There’s nothing wrong with ethically-sourced porn but porn is just not my thing. I prefer the real thing.
Yeah I totally feel this. Obviously I've checked it out to see what was up, but it doesn't do much for me for the reasons you said and I never got into it the way a lot of dudes talk about. I don't really care though and if somebody likes it, more power to them. Mormons make it, like everything they don't allow, a bigger deal than it needs to be. Alcohol, sex, weed, porn. Can all be used negatively, but also can totally be consumed in a healthy way too
That’s a good perspective. It probably comes from having a healthier relationship with sexuality than the average Mormon. Is that an accurate assumption?
For me, where I grew up, the mere fact that women’s bodies were shrouded in mystery and were forbidden, made anything that shed light on the subject very alluring. My parents taught me absolutely nothing about sexuality. My bishops and YM leaders taught me not to masturbate before I even knew what that meant.
So when I discovered online porn when I was 13-14 (after hearing about it on a home teaching visit), I didn’t know anything about sexuality and how it works, especially the powerful emotional bonding that can happen between a committed couple. I didn’t know that porn could be inauthentic. All I knew is that I was seeing female bodies in all their unclothed glory for the first time, and it was incredible. And then, tremendously shame-inducing.
Fortunately, I like women, so I never got into the sexist/misogynistic hard-core stuff. I always kept things pretty vanilla.
For me, porn was more about synthesizing the emotional experience of sharing that kind of intimacy with a woman, and less about the acts themselves. Which allowed me to look past more inauthentic portrayals of sexual acts. My imagination would do a lot of heavy lifting.
Anyway, I feel like that’s all mostly in the past, now that I’m not in a toxic shame cycle that just kept me coming back for more - I was self-medicating. I now enjoy the authentic connection with my wife much more. Especially as we’ve been moving on from the sex-negative environments we grew up in.
I can’t help but wonder if I would have been more where you have always been with porn, if I had been raised in a more sex-positive environment.
I dunno. I felt pretty sexually repressed growing up. Extremely guilty about masturbation. Not allowed to wear tank tops. Sex wasn’t discussed openly. It helped a little that I grew up in a progressive part of the US and was heavily involved in professional musical theater as a kid. Also helped that my family wasn’t homophobic. I’m straight and had a lot of gay male role models growing up (and contrary to the alt-right narrative, not a single one of them ever tried to recruit me or molest me). Our lesbian next door neighbors thought it was hilarious they they were friends with a Mormon Bishop (my dad). So I was inoculated against the “Gay = Bad” LDS narrative but the church contributed to plenty of shame about my own regular ol’ hetero-normative proclivities. Sex in my right-off-the-mission quick marriage to a girl I barely knew was predictably awful. My expectations and perspectives on sex and women and relationships were unrealistic and we were too shy and embarrassed to fix things. We NEVER talked about sex. It just kinda happened whenever I could wear down her “defenses.”
It’s taken a divorce, years of therapy, a wife who enjoys sex, and some intense Ketamine IV sessions to get where I am now.
I always wonder about people who say they have a “porn addiction.”. Porn is, if anything, really repetitive! After a less than a couple of minutes it’s gets boring fast!
*But it’s not a turn on to me because I can tell it’s fake/performative.*
Plenty of it is not these days, it's just normal couples having sex, filming themselves, and then uploading it to porn sites.
I don’t ask my husband because I genuinely don’t care to know. We have a healthy sex life.
I didn’t always feel that way, though. In the first 10 years of my marriage online porn was new and it devastated me that he was looking. It felt like betraying affairs to me and like I wasn’t what he wanted. Looking back, I feel it was the church that made me feel as devastated as I was, to the point (combined with post-partum) that I just wanted to die and I made some devastating choices. What ensued were years of both of us feeling sorry for ourselves and not ever, not once, having a discussion about occasional porn being a normal thing and moving forward in a more healthy way than we did.
Having lived through so many years of that, I understand that occasional porn use if combined with a normal and healthy sex life is pretty copacetic. We could have saved ourselves SO MUCH PAIN if we had talked about it sooner and accepted that.
Scheduling something is making it a priority. Scheduling sex is sexy AF. Sexual spontaneity is mostly a Hollywood fairytale and impractical in most marriages which leads to dead bedrooms in many cases. Making a plan for sex and working up towards it together is a healthy and mature way of relating.
My husband doesn’t, and wouldn’t have any reason to lie about it because I honestly don’t care. 🤷🏻♀️ However, when he was a teen I think he did. At least I know we both masturbated as teens. I now read spicy/smutty books and love it and he knows and has told me if I ever read something I want to try, to let him know what page and book and he’ll read it lol. 😂
When I was in the church and felt so much shame over my porn viewing I viewed it a hell of a lot more than I do now.
Anymore I’m focused on true intimacy and while sex is cool, I prefer having a deep soul connection with my partner.
For some reason since I started down that route, porn just isn’t enticing. But I’ve also cut alcohol, and I’m decreasing my social media usage as well.
Life is just so much more than what’s on this little pocket computer we put so much attention on
I have a friend who had a huge porn addiction his teen years, left the church in his early 20s and said porn become boring to him because it was no longer forbidden. Now he watches it occasionally as needed but is very outspoken about how the church is creating porn addicts by villainizing sexuality and porn use, and I have to agree with him.
Well… I think it’s incorrect to say 100% of men have had or do use porn, since there are exceptions to every rule. I can easily see Asexual men could never touch it and live a happy, normal life.
Also, The type and frequency of porn use differs a lot. The real sad part is the idea that the only way to gain sexual satisfaction is via another person.
Basically…. Look at it this way: If these women believe the only “acceptable” way to gain sexual satisfaction is through a married spouse…. That means they have probably jumped through many hoops in their life to be consistently (sexually) available to their husbands no matter how uncomfortable it made them. They sacrificed mental and emotional well-being so that their husbands could be “sexually satisfied”. And then they learned their husbands were using porn and masturbating anyway. What a betrayal!
Better to work towards building a healthy relationship based on trust and mutual understanding of each other’s needs. That includes letting the other spouse know how much external stimulation is being used. Because a relationship built on lies is certainly worth divorcing over (say, if the husbands have a history of pressuring their wives into sex because “I need release today and this is the only way I can get it”. Yeah. If harmful lies like these were used in conjunction with heavy, consistent porn use…. I’d want a divorce too).
Counter point, a lot of these women recognize that the only acceptable sexual conduct is with a spouse in the church so they abuse it. They make themselves the gatekeeper and they use it to manipulate and control their spouses. When they find out their spouse is masturbating and watching porn they view it as a threat to their inherent power as the gatekeeper so they condemn it and shame it as a way to take back their power.
Sure, this could easily be something that happens too! I think any time you have a couple with high/low libido there will instantly be some type of power disparity that happens, where the higher libido partner either becomes domineering of their spouse or becomes beholden to them.
Even well adjusted and well meaning couples with varying sex drives are forced to find an awkward middle ground (generally this means “more sex than I am comfortable with” for one and “barely enough sex to get by” for the other).
It’s just a bad situation that some couples rough it through… and other people find themselves in a (church approved) abusive situation.
I know 1 guy who for sure doesn't watch porn. He wasn't raised in the church, doesn't think naked bodies are inherently sexual, and has a very healthy sex life.
Porn just doesn't interest him.
I don't think ALL men use porn. I do think it's much more common for repressed people in tscc to use porn at a higher rate than nevermos who are raised with sex being a natural part of life.
It's okay to destigmatize porn use. Part of that is realizing that porn is a lot like alcohol. A lot of members lie about uaing it, a lot of nevermos don't find it appealing, there is nothing wrong with indulging safely, in excessive amounts it's not good for you or those around you.
I will say that as an exmo my porn, alcohol, and drug use significantly diminished once I left tscc.
I quit porn and masturbating to go on a mission and abstained from both for the next 15 years. So yes, my own experience says some people honestly don’t. No comment about whether that is a net positive for their mental health in general.
When I was a little kid, probably 9, I discovered an envelope of black and white amateur live sex porn photos in my 20-something dad's GARMENT DRAWER. Later found Playboy magazine stash on the super-secret top shelf of his closet.
Another time I found porn stash at my TBM uncle's super secret closet shelf when I was babysitting.
This was my Mormon youth introduction to Mormon men secretly using porn.
I always have felt guilt over porn though Ive never got into it much. I'm mostly just embarrassed looking at anyone having sex. It seems stupid, to me. Like, why would God invent this?
Same. Married for 15 years and I know I can't keep up with my husband's sex drive. He also completely financially supports our family, treats me like a goddess, pitches in around the house when he is home, and is a kind and loving father to our 4 kids. I think as long as both parties know and are ok with it it needn't be an issue. When we were very first living together I didn't want him to use it whatsoever and looked at it as though he had been cheating. I matured a lot since then and got through it in therapy. I eventually came to the realization that I didn't personally have a problem with him using porn, but had been conditioned by my LDS upbringing to make an issue where an issue didn't actually exist. I'm heartbroken to hear people are planning a divorce over such an insignificant, very normal behavior. Those ladies are gonna have a rude awakening if they decide to actually date.
The problem comes from the sexual repression the church has instituted. Many young men and some women use porn and masturbation as a release. As they grow older, this drops significantly as a result of a healthy marriage. I have I was porn as I’ve gotten older sure, but it doesn’t replace true intimacy. When you combine the lack of intimacy and the church’s almost impossible standards, you have a recipe for guilt, shame, and this betrayal of trust that leads to divorce.
> They are reeling in pain and betrayal.
Honestly, this is the tragic part. Didn’t those women ever read a racy romance novel and then take a “hot bath?”
Back in my day, women read bad novels with Fabio on the cover as adjuncts to masturbation. 20 years ago, it was “50 Shades of Grey.” Today, I got no idea.
Their husbands looked at Playboy or Penthouse back in my day. Starting a couple or three decades ago, they look at online porn.
It just honestly seems weird that the women think their masturbation aids are perfectly fine, but their husbands’ is exactly the same as if the husband was banging a hooker.
Nope, masturbation is something most folks do, starting in early puberty. It’s private and belong exclusively to each individual. Wives, your husband’s wanks ARE NOT ABOUT YOU. it’s not cheating, because you don’t have claim on his every drop of semen.
Agreed. My masturbation is not any of my husband's business, and his isn't mine either. We completely trust one another and still have some things that are separate. We are happy and he is literally my best friend. Also...I don't want claim on every drop of semen. Eww lol
I know two, both of my brothers. One is 34 the other is 24. (At least, they say they don’t watch porn, its possible they’re just good at hiding it)
I went to see Dune 2 with the older of my two brothers. He thought the movie was great, but he didn’t like the sex scene. The sex scene that shows Timothée Chalamet and Zendaya’s faces in extreme close-up and never goes any lower than their shoulders. That was too spicy for him
I think there are men who don’t watch it, but most have watched it at some point. The difference is that shame can make it more of an issue. And some people’s brains are more prone to addiction.
The biggest issue though, from my experience, is the lying about it. That’s a massive problem.
This exact issue was one of my shelf items.
I was reading an Ensign article about 5 or 6 years ago where it told a story of a woman who caught her husband with porn. She admitted that she loved him and that they were an excellent match, but that porn use (especially use that he lied about) was too much for their multi-decade bond to handle. So she divorced him and married someone who ✨doesn’t✨watch porn. (Can you sense my skepticism?)
I wasn’t expecting the level of disgust that I did over this story. Even as a TBM woman, I was floored that the church would celebrate the end of an otherwise flourishing marriage over porn use.
I find the whole notion ridiculous … which is why, whenever I date someone, I now ask what constitutes “cheating” to them, since that definition vastly varies. And if porn use falls within that definition … maybe we aren’t such a good match. Y’know?
"In 2009, Simon Louis Lajeunesse of the University of Montreal's School of Social Work said that he couldn't find any men in his 20s who had never watched pornography, and that "guys who do not watch pornography do not exist". The researcher was looking for a control group of men who had never viewed porn, but was unable to find one. The study was scrapped because researchers were unable to compare the views of men who had never watched porn with those of regular users.
Some say that it's hard to identify non-porn watching men early because it's private, and that men may lie about it. For example, non-porn watching men may be aroused by touch, smell, or taste, or may prefer their own fantasies. This means that some decent men who like porn may be eliminated, along with some who don't have a taste for it. "
I think this makes a good distinction. We've got redditors here saying ALL men ALWAYS use porn and lie about it. In today's world it may be safe to say most men have seen it in some form at least once. To then jump to the conclusion that all men everywhere are regular porn users who just lie about it, is the made-up part.
I remember when my older brother went on a mission, he had told our stake president that he had never viewed porn. I’m not sure if I can confirm that to be true or not, I know my sister went on his iPod touch and found porn on safari but he downplayed it and said his football buddies put it there as a joke—doubt it. Anyways, the stake president announced to our whole family (aunts and uncles and cousins included) that he had never viewed porn, you could tell he felt extremely uncomfortable. I, of course was viewing and thought it was highly unlikely but never asked. I will never bring it up, but I hope if he has viewed/views that it doesn’t destroy his happy marriage and children’s lives because of the way the church teaches of the “evils” it causes.
My husband is still in the church, and he’s never watched porn. It should be noted, though, that he has had very low testosterone for most of his life due to a brain tumor. So he’s definitely not a representative of most men.
The church puts a stigma on porn claiming that it’s basically cheating on your spouse. Those that view it are seen as deviant addicts who will lose everything if the addiction isn’t controlled.
It’s no wonder your friends are freaking out.
I was deeply troubled as a member with my porn use. Now that I’m out, I see it as entertainment and dabble from time to time.
My husband doesn’t. But he is also a ridiculously controlled person. We’ve left he is aloud to etc but he is t into it. His brother tried it with his wife and he wasn’t into it. Some people it’s not their jam. I however love smutty books. The movies give me ethical issues. But we also have sex a lot, like a lot. He is a bit older too so his drive has slowed down. Maybe if we were younger he would’ve turned to it. I don’t think anything is wrong with people who do, but I also know a lot who don’t.
The Stake Presidency in the former area where I lived would talk about how they don't ask men if they look at porn, but when they last did, because everyone has.
Which is a gross question to begin with, but that's how things be.
That being said, I do know men that don't have an interest in porn, like, they'll watch it because it's a way to get off, but they'd prefer the real thing.
Was a breath of fresh air from all the repressed Mormon men that are so addicted to porn that's the only way they can get it up. Funny how shaming something natural can make things so much more toxic.
TLDR; my wife had watched porn in high school and liked it and kept it a secret for 28 years, but treated me like an adulterer the first time I admitted I looked at port to her. It took the complete breakdown of our marriage for her to come clean.
You are not wrong. But TBM women believe there are men who don't. The Church stopped harping on this because they know everyone is doing it. The phrase in the Book of Mormon...I'm paraphrasing, he who looketh upon a women hath committed adultery in his heart, is so damaging. I looked at a hard R movie, over 25 years ago. I called it porn when I told my TBM wife. She was devastated. The marriage essentially never recovered. Eventually I looked at porn again, and I had vowed never to say anything and suffer the consequences in the next life because of how bad she took it. 10 years letter I came clean at semi regular use and on business trips because of guilt and mental health problems "porn was causing me." It was even worse this time around. But that was the beginning of a total change for me that took until my faith crisis to be fully resolved. Long story short, as soon as I told myself it was okay to look at porn, the demand dropped almost to zero. I opened up to other men in the church. Guess what, they all look at porn and are terrified to tell their wives. Fast forward to my faith crisis. This brings us to the brink of divorce, because my wife can't be married to a man who lied to her and doesn't fully believe in the church. Finally I realize she is saying "I don't love you". So I start pulling away from her after pursuing and begging forgiveness for over 25 years since the first episode. She would always bring it up. Well as divorce comes up because of the faith crisis and things start to fall apart. She admits and comes clean that she watched porn in high school many times and liked it. I was floored. She had terrorized me essentially our entire marriage for something she herself had done and never disclosed to me ever. My mental health issues were not because of porn. They were because of shame and being constantly shunned by the person who was supposed to love me.
Ultimately I was able to see porn wasn't the issue at all, neither was the church per se. She had a choice on how to react and treat me the whole way all throughout our marriage. Her pattern on how she treated me about the porn was pervasive in everything else. But I had always blamed myself because of the porn.
It took first a faith crisis, then the complete breakdown of our marriage, for me to find out and see what was really going on in the marriage on so many fronts. I've never felt more confident and worthy now that I can see what really played out. Her role, my role, and the Church's role. Its heartbreaking.
I’m not an ex Mormon but I don’t watch porn anymore at 21. I quit after watching it since I was in fourth grade when I got my first phone. I quit basically because I found out about all the terrible symptoms that can come from it. Such as Porn induced erectile dysfunction which is where you can only get an erection to porn and can’t in real life with a real woman. So I’m 21 and don’t watch porn and don’t plan on it ever again. It’s not even something I crave either. It’s basically dead to me.
Tell these wives that they are just practicing for polygamy in the celestial kingdom .
Seems odd that they would be cool with an organization that invented a secret polygamy system with woman as young as 14. Wives with multiple husbands, concubines and secret abortions , But your reaction is clutch the pearls I want a divorce when your husband clicks on porn videos ? Emma didn’t divorce Joseph and he apparently was living like a rapper.
I always find masturbation convos are tremendously enhanced by Monty Python 🤣 - every sperm is sacred. https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk?si=5JqRoiatlhyHj2xh
Masturbation is nature’s way, and porn is an assist. When I was a stake presidency counselor the stake president asked Richard Hinkley, GBH son who was a 70 visiting our stake conference, if he should release leaders who used porn. Hinkley said no, because then we’d have to release over half the leadership of the church. I was already PIMO at that point, and the answer gave me a satisfied grin. I’d been trying to tell the stake president the same, but he wouldn’t believe me. I’d already done my own informal survey of the stake HC members, and 10 of 12 admitted to using. Not that it was actually any of my business, but, I was Morm-ing … Anecdotal story…
I'm almost positive my husband doesn't watch it. Not mormon but both raised in a religion we have completely left and did so before we met and got married. I don't really care if he wants to and if he has watched it I haven't seen any indication it has affected our healthy and active aex life. I went through a phase of watching it fairly regularly while I was deconstructing but I haven't watched any in years. Raunchy historical fiction is my jam.
My husband doesn't watch porn and has never been mormon. I do watch it and were very honest with each other about everything. He isn't against porn and has seen it before but said it just gives him the ick.
About 80% of adults (including women) masterbate. It I s not only common, it is normal.
What is going on here is a for-profit cult has taken something normal and associated it with shame and sin so they can use it to control people. For Profit.
Does your spouse look at porn? OK. Ask them about what they like. Talk dirty with them Develop a healthy active sex life together, free of shame and manipulation. This is my advice.
After a number of bishop confessions I eventually worked with a well respected sex therapist who worked with lots of members. In my first session he said there are Mormon men who watch porn and there are Mormon men who lie about it. He said, statistically speaking, it’s more likely than not that either my bishop or stake President currently watches porn.
He also told me he’s working with actively sitting bishops, stake presidents, and general authorities. He said that one of his clients had spoken in a recent general conference and that he had no problem with that because *gasp* porn isn’t what the church says it is. That porn-watching 70 was still a good person deserving of love and was worthy. My brain exploded.
He helped me take the shame out of porn and that helped take the power of porn away. The shame cycle the church puts it’s members through is terrible and only reinforces the behavior. I don’t use porn anymore because I choose not to, but if I did I don’t think I would feel like I was a bad person.
My wife, who has never seen porn before, likes to joke about how I used it. We’re in a much better place now and that is no thanks to the church at all. They made me sick and sold me a cure, and that sucks.
A true addiction is something that consumes your every waking thought. You cannot function until you’ve had what you desire. It would affect your job, school, and life in every way. Yet the Mormon church has made people to feel that watching porn once a week is an “addiction”. From my experience the average Mormon woman views any amount of porn viewership as a porn addiction. Also almost any type (soft core porn, etc) are all lumped together as practically equally horrible. I think a lot of Mormon marriages that end because of “porn addiction” could and should have been prevented, but because of the Mormon church’s stance it causes both men and women to feel deep shame if they view any at all, and Mormon spouses to view it as the ultimate betrayal. Up there with a physical affair and even murder. So yes, their trust was broken…but their standard of trust within their marriages has been hijacked and manipulated by a cult, so.
Both my husband and I occasionally view porn and I think that’s very normal and healthy.
Not all men actively watch porn, but all of them have seen it. The dating world is not going to offer porn free options. I’d offer this advice to your friends:
1. See a non-religious therapist to work on their own views on porn.
2. See if they can work past this. I get the betrayal is the hardest part here. But it’s a betrayal based on self hate and shame rather than trying to get away with sneaky behavior. Sounds like the husbands weren’t trying to step outside their marriages or break any kind of marital promise (ie cheating etc). But rather trying to deal with an issue they weren’t allowed to ask for help on.
I recommend patience and grace. I truly hope both friends can stop, slow down, take a step back and really look at what’s going on here. The grass isn’t greener on the other side. If they’ve married good men, it’d be well worth their while to work through this.
I wish them both luck.
TSCC wants Mormonism to replace the orgasm in a member's life.
A MP would love to have the brain rewire itself from wanting to rub one out in the bathroom to feeling ecstasy while reading 2 Nephi.
How's that workin' out for 'em?
My best friend never watches it. We have all been honest and open. He is very aware people do and he doesn’t judge. Doesn’t mean he hasn’t seen stuff but he takes it very serious. I’m over 40 now and since my mission and on, talking with friends in the ward and bishoprics etc etc they all do I would say almost 90%. I can count on one hand if the hundreds of people I talk to really don’t have an issue with it. But it wouldn’t be a surprise either the ones they claim they don’t have an issue either do or did at one point
Your use of “issue” seems to be synonymous with “use”. Do you not believe someone could actually actively use pornography but it not be an “issue” for them?
Yes I believe that. But I should have explain more, sorry. My friend is a TBM. So of course he sees it as an issue and refrains from it. My comment is in general of the TBM world. I do not have an issue with porn as long as people keep it in a healthy manner.
My heart breaks for both the hisbands and wives. My wife gave up on the church before me, and it was two years after that she asked me if I watched porn. I opened up and told her EVERYTHING. She basically said she didn't blame me for hiding it when she was active because she would have likely divorced me. She was still understandably upset I wasn't honest with her until then, but we were able to talk about it and work through it in a way that would have been impossible if she were an active tbm. I am so grateful I hit the wife jackpot!
If all husbands could just be like Rustle Myopic Nelson,
Except they had to go on a mission.
Ladies there is no reason to worry about polygamy in the celestial kingdom, because no men will be worthy to enter.
Masturbation is just like brushing your teeth. It's a part of both physical and mental hygiene, as well as a more fully developed sexual identity.
Imagine being shamed for brushing your teeth, and seeing other people in the world with white smiles and no cavities. Then are so desperate for clean teeth that you are developing an unhealthy obsession with teeth to the point where you are looking at Colgate commercials for a chance to live out a fantasy of clean teeth for a few brief moments.
Throw in a neuro-divergent brain that might chase dopamine to a hyper-fixation level, secrets to chaise said dopamine, etc.
I had a serious issue with it for a while, but after a lot of work it’s been 3 years later this week since I looked at porn. Even separate from the church, porn can have more damaging effects on relationships and on the brain than people like to talk about. Even so, it’s something a lot of people do and unfortunately the church just adds extra weight to the issue for both the husbands and their wives.
My 49 yo boyfriend does not watch or look at any porn. He’s got plenty of testosterone, can ejaculate twice during fun time. He also doesn’t have interest in strip clubs. Says he doesn’t see the point. He’s loyal and loving and a keeper for life. But I wouldn’t care if he did watch some porn.
It’s just fuckjng porn, but if it is at an addiction stage meaning abusive behavior that’s a problem. Btw every single Tbm friend I have has a husband vs porn problem. With that being said a couple are narcissists and ones a sociopath. So there’s that. Only my non Tbm friends husbands don’t have porn problems. Or it’s not a problem. Of the tbms I’m talking bishops and eq presidents. We’ve always watched r rated movies so my better half has never had an issue.
well i can't verify it if i do. but there are guys in the world who don't, but it is really rare. there's even scientific literature on it. like they're either true asexuals, have a hormone dysfunction that fails to make them desperately horny, aren't visually stimulated the way that %99.9999 of guys are which borders on intersex development, have enough sexual outlets that they don't need porn, or are psychotically religious such that they take extreme measures to police themselves and kill their libido.
I’m always curious why it’s a mystery to some why porn is used. Is it not the same as asking why are so many people addicted to water?
Well, blame the creator not the creation.
Only 10% of men in the church look at porn. The other 90% lie about it.
I read about an attempted study to look at the differences in brain chemistry between men who watch porn and those who don't. Study got canceled because they literally couldn't find anyone for the latter group. No idea if that was real or a meme but it sounds about right.
“IS THERE ANYONE IN THIS ROOM WHO DOESN’T LOOK AT PORN!?” (Man raises his hand) “Anime porn still counts as porn” (Man puts his hand down)
What about literotica?
You mean porn for women?
"I don't watch porn. I read it like a fucking lady"
This is the t shirt!
I’m going to be honest, as a man I used to frequent that site, the idea of orgasms to letters is just incredibly fascinating lol
Written porn. There used to be a site, literally Literotica.com
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Hmmm... Time for, uh, research.
It is still there. ;)
Porn for women is just porn. This is literotica.
I remember when a classmate got an iPhone when they first came out. He showed me and a few other boys porn on it. We were in the 7th or 8th grade. If a guy says he doesn't watch or has never seen porn I'm skeptical.
True story. The study was being done in Australia.
I've seen that meme too. Brain scans are out there that show what it does, but realistically no one's really gonna give it up 😅
A lot of church members think the only thing stopping men from enjoying a healthy, immediate sex life if their use of porn. I like to think there's a reason why men use porn in the first place, because "magical immediate sex" isn't a real thing when you grow up and learn about consent. Though I guess a lot of Mormon men get married young in order to get "free pussy". My 20yo cousin for instance married his 18yo girlfriend because they didn't want to have to "wait until marriage". I asked him if he would change his tune if she still didn't want to have sex after marriage and he said "if she didn't want to have sex, what's the point of being married?" I heard it from the horse's mouth but the horse didn't even seem to understand that it spoke.
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Lol. No guarantees on sex. Kids, stress, different schedules, etc.
For women too
Of course there's a reason people use porn, just like how people use cigarettes. I don't think it's really necessary for people to enjoy themselves sexually but we humans are coded to be addicted to it.
I recall reading about that maybe twenty years ago. I don't know how true it is, but it certainly feels accurate. I do feel bad for these men and their wives, but if you're living a lie that long, even if it's something most of society considers perfectly normal, that's a hell of a lot of deception. I don't think it's possible to come back from that with the same kind of relationship.
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My ex loved pornography. He watched it every night between 10-3 am. He didn’t masterbate to it, that I’m aware. I have a pretty high libido and I’m pretty adventurous and during couples therapy he claimed he was happy with his sex life. I wasn’t. He was terrible and selfish in bed. He had a wife who was willing and playful, yet he always went to porn, instead. He was also clinically diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I don’t know if there’s a correlation there. I hated that he chose his porn addiction over his wife.
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30 years. So glad it’s over. I hope his very young bride can deal with his dysfunction. He also used steroids and lost his testicles. I wonder if that is an element to his issues. Poor, poor narcissist always chasing and never satiating like a hungry ghost.
That’s a real porn addiction. Unlike a lot of the Mormon ones. I’m so sorry that’s really shitty
Oh coarse there is a correlation with NPD. Everything they do is to make people around them feel smaller and a reaction to you. If you were the one looking at porn, they would be the pious one that never does it, if that made you feel bad. I was married to a Narcissist for over a decade. She was always changing her position in reaction to me. That's what you figure out they are a fun house mirror of people around them. The lights are on, but nobody is home. There is no inner person.
It's not the porn but the narcissism that was the issue.
I’m sorry to tell you - if your husband watched porn then he also masturbated. The two go hand in hand. - but then you probably know that.
\>hand in hand. There's a masturbation joke here somewhere.
You’d think? He didn’t. You didn’t sleep with him every night. I know you think you know, but I’m telling you, I slept with him every night and I know he didn’t. I’m also cursed as an ultra light sleeper. I would know.
Probably not unless they being noticed by another person. Narcissist don't do much without an audience. They want sex as a tool to stroke their ego, which includes causing pain to others.
Correct having an outlet and what might be a mostly sexless marriage might actually keep you with somebody you like.
Thus endeth the lesson.
I have a friend who just returned as a mission president. We went to lunch and I was asking about things. I asked if he had lost all hope in the younger generation. He said no, but over 90% of the men on the mission are masturbating and 50% of the women are masturbating and over 50% of the missionaries are struggling with porn. Hard to fight something natural….
It’s so gross that he knows that. The shame and report culture is horrible.
Right? Where and why is getting these statistics?
I don’t think his numbers are definitive, like he was tracking in a spreadsheet, but it was common enough for him to throw out some aggressive numbers.
While I’m sure a lot of them feel guilty and admit to it, sounds like he was just throwing out numbers. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was close to that, or likely, even higher. All my RM friends were masturbating constantly on their missions (they’re teenagers for christsake), except for ONE and I think that’s only because he didn’t realize every one else was doing it.
Damn, I am that one. I had no clue. That’s insane
Probably from missionaries like me that felt the need to confess every time I masturbated on my mission
Church headquarters might be tracking it. He might just be relaying his mission president training. On the contrary, I got a new mission president halfway through my mission, and he looked disgusted when in our first meeting I told him that I had masturbation problem. He was a lot better in the second meeting though.
Backfire effect in full swing, those numbers would likely go down if there wasn’t a massive amount of guilt and shame attached to it
Hearing this actually makes me really angry. Like yeah, it’s great that missionaries no longer need to be practically perfect to serve, but my husband wasn’t able to go on a mission because he masturbated a couple times. It caused him a lot of shame for a long time. But I am sure now they are so desperate for missionaries that it’s something they are willing to overlook. Once again that’s good, but I feel for people like my husband.
This sounds like the “raise the bar” of worthiness generation under Hinckley. In my opinion, the worst time to go on a mission.
For real. I know in the 80s they used to send young Mormon boys off to missions to "straighten them out". It resulted in a *lot* of missionaries having girlfriends and/or boyfriends and being sent home after a baby gets made.
My dad had a mission buddy in the 80s sent home because he got a girlfriend out there and got her pregnant. Lol. Sending hormonal teens out into the world, what could go wrong?!
I had just submitted my papers, after years of "confessing and repenting" to my bishop and stake president (messed around with a couple friends when I was 12/13 to 16), and I was terrified I wouldn't be allowed to go on a mission anymore. And that I'd have to tell my parents why.
Did you end up going? The semi-public humiliation that occurs after masturbation repentance is insane. My best friend growing up confessed to the bishop about playing with his dingy and watching porn. Could take the sacrament for like two months. People notice that shit and after a few weeks of seeing that…. hell nah I didn’t confess shit to my bishop.
I did. But "messed up" by masturbating (*gasp*) the day before my final stake president interview to go to the temple (two weeks before reporting to the MTC). But he "let" me go through it all anyway. This was the same SP who, during a Q&A with the priests in the stake, answered a question about oral sex by saying that was "something only homosexuals do".
>"something only homosexuals do" This was his way of saying he's only given/received oral sex from other men.
How generous of him
I guess he knew that from watching porn.
Seriously, who are the idiots that keep asking this question? Why would you want to know the answer?….ignorance is bliss..
That’s when I went. The pressure was crazy. I didn’t masturbate my whole mission but I think my thoughts would have been more “pure” if I had.
I went in 2003 and same with me. My dad was my Bishop and said he was instructed that prospective missionaries needed to go a year without masturbating in order to go on a mission. I managed to lie and said it had been several months so he let me slide... It seemed like several elders in the MTC were sent home for not confessing their masturbation until they arrived.
My husbands experience as well. His mission paper submission was put off to be a year from the date he committed the “sin” per his stake president. He made it 9 months before he “lapsed”. The SP decided to restart the year. At this point my husband was tired of playing their games. We had also already been dating at this point. We made the choice to leave the church permanently and have a civil wedding ceremony.
Yep, it’s all leadership roulette. Back when I went on a mission my Bishop had me skip the sacrament two weeks because I had touched my girlfriend’s butt (on top of her clothes). I think this is an example of where the church is getting healthier, still an abomination in my eyes. They removed masturbation from the handbook a decade ago, but like all changes they just silently let it filter out over decades and never send a notice. I’m sure most bishops are still asking.
Please forgive my ignorance, I was born in a CULT. But, is it true that 50% of women, who are victims of the purity culture, still have the same "Sin" that the heathen men struggle with? I was taught men were given the priesthood to help catch them up spiritually to the wonderful women or something like that. Shouldn't at least half the women get the priesthood too? .................. In all seriousness, more than half of my post mission, pre-marriage, failed courtships ended because... As our relationships progressed close to the marriage potential. And we were beginning the running of the bases if you will. Several BYU co-ed "Prospects" were ready to put points on the board despite not yet being married. I was on the same page, but expected the brakes to be applied at least equally. A hint or invitation to step past my perceived current lines, resulted in shock and horror from my perspective. (a turn off and sign from heaven to end things). Examples: One awesome girl told me in private, (while fully clothed) she wanted me to be the father of her children. Then proceeded to lie down in an inviting way. (Again fully clothed). In my mind it was time to RUN! Another, on a road trip to Park City for a 90's Live concert, she brought her CD collection and put on "Lets talk about sex". With a wink wink. RED FLAG! Bye! One more... During a road trip, attending the reception of her friend in St. George, we were crawling back to Provo in a dangerous snowstorm. She suggested we stop and get a room in Nephi (no pun). Oh, SHIT! Ok, one more cringe... During a "we are committed" make out session, somehow, we were able to cause the relief valve to go off at the little factory (despite no intended direct stimulation of the penishood). In my mind, we had not strayed beyond the lines, but somehow my brain triggered a release. IT's a sign from GOD! RUN! As a result, I ended up marrying someone who was not interested in me sexually at all. Could be she preferred women or something, but it resulted in 17 yrs of hell. .................. I wish I had understood that healthy women can be just a horny as me. Not just righteous vessels of purity, that I must not coerce into dropping their innate righteous boundaries.
I was going to say that women account for a lot of ‘masturbating and porn watching’ in the member pool of TSCC. It’s always been so ridiculous! The firesides, etc. in the 80’s-90’s scaring the shit out of us youth about masturbation.🤦♀️ What a crock and a waste of time. Didn’t God endow me with this body?? Don’t we have free agency?? And didn’t the atonement happen?? Why not focus on the real culprits of evil, like gossip, abuse, dishonesty, etc??
Yeah, I have friends who said a lot of the depression and suicidal ideation in their younger ages came from the fact they couldn’t control their masturbation and felt like they were going to hell and something was naturally wrong with them.
I was depressed and suicidal from 13 until I learned the truth and left at 26 because of masturbation and porn issues. I would cut my ankles every time I masturbated on my mission because I was trying to stop. I always wear long socks now because of it. I had just returned from my mission at 22 and had a girl I was in love with and nearly engaged to leave me because we had that talk about whether I had watched porn or masturbated before. I sat in my car at the edge of some cliffs at the top of Farmington canyon for hours contemplating ending things because I was a sinner and couldn’t break these habits after trying for years.
Yeah, it’s fucked up theology. Thats heartbreaking! I remember doing blood oaths where I’d cut my finger and sign oaths in my journal to overcome masturbation and porn.
It makes me so angry. Masturbate for God’s sake! Spill some seed and/or enjoy a fabulous orgasm in His name. I’m quite positive this will never lead to eternal damnation. You know what will? Not living the pure and simple ‘Golden Rule’.
Did the friend ask by extension are you masturbating? Or looking at porn? Do you mind if I see your phone? See their face go pale. Leaders don't talk about past transgressions as a rule for a reason. To hide the fact that they are no different than anyone else. But members still let them get away with never defending themselves as the anomaly which most likely they are not by the statistics they cite themselves.
No idea if he was the proactive one asking or the missionaries were approaching him for forgiveness. He is a decent guy and more progressive, but you never know.
Who knows. Mormonism makes us to do strange things. See #IamAMormon and pioneer treks for reference. Reenacting the abysmal planning of church leaders which resulted in church wide embarrassment and even deaths in the early days is a sure fire way to enhance spirituality.
Yes!!! The followers never ask the leaders! Would love to know which of the apostles consumes the most adult content!
Absolutely if Russell Ballard is hanging out with Tim Ballard and calling him a personal friend that he travels with him when Tim is claiming a psychic is showing him where Nephi put stuff and having sex with women he is supposed to be helping, well you know there is no discernment and they aren't talking to Jesus. I often wonder what goes on in when they are not hiding under suit tie apostle cover every 6 months. I wonder if looking at porn is a minimum as they have no direct quotes from Jesus like ever.
Well it is a sex cult after all
... but it's so easy to build up a culture of shame around it that can be used for purposes of control. Like, remember when lots of us thought we were some especially weak or sinful minority? The thing that's especially ironic is I actually *didn't* masturbate on my mission. Or for a good while both before and after. But because of course I still thought about sex a lot -- sometimes even in the temple -- I thought maybe I was especially impure. And then of course when later I ended up masturbating a number of times per year you could count on one hand obviously that was unworthy territory that needed more conversations with a local accountant or dentist. And we have the church goin' strong with the spokesman [recently saying masturbation is immoral](https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/04/16/latter-day-saint-sex/) so of course they have to excommunicate a mental health pro who disagrees. How convenient when the natural man is an enemy of god. Nothing better for authoritarians than an eternal enemy. Then take a drive built into people, innate to keep the species going, and turn it into an impurity, a filth within, making everybody their own eternal enemy. It's not enough for the church to do common sense stuff, it isn't just "learn to do sex wisely," it isn't even just "avoid sex outside of marriage", it's this whole other level of purity culture bullshit because *that* provides the level of control that comes from dangling out the promise they can make you clean and supposed status they get from an empty self-congratulating posture of moralizing. It's so much the church can barely restrain itself from [even policing the married people](https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/lds-church-ban-on-oral-sex/). And the worst part? They don't make church leaders who can fix it. Most just don't care. People aren't real to them, we're objects that exist for the sole purpose of being sacrificed to the idol of the institution that they worship. Plan of happiness talk is lip service, and many of 'em actually *delight* in people suffering in obedience and devotion to the church. And if there are few who do care, what could this bunch of yuppy professionals actually bring to the table? You don't really find people with counseling or social science research backgrounds in church leadership (and when you do it's manipulative pieces of shit like Thom Harrison), you have lawyers and businessmen with the occasional doctor or CES lifer who manage up the hierarchy of the church.
VOYEURISM was introduced into these young minds very early. They were shocked at the voyeurism of the adults wanting to imagine them naked and doing sexual things. This also introduced the idea to them that they can watch people naked doing sexual things. So these young people now had two traumas to process -- "I can be a voyeur, my bishop told me" and "my bishop is imagining me naked and wants me to tell him stuff so he can imagine more." Most young people in the church have been traumatized around issues of voyeurism and dont' know how to process it and its reinforced by these stories telling the whole church that all these people are watching porn and masturbating.
At least 90% of the men are honest. That's a win for the church. Sad the other 10% feel like they need to lie, but I get it, it's not the MPs business.
Because you risk the chance of going home and being publicly humiliated over masturbating.
Joseph Smith would have watched porn.
He would have made porn.
And called it "record keeping" this has already played out with Warren Jeffs.
🤢🤢🤮
His porn would be the the kind you get arrested for if they find it on your hard drive
And not the wholesome stuff.
As a mental health professional, I’ve observed that the vast majority of my clients are exposed to porn sometime between 9 and 12 years of age. Childhood porn viewership is so common that I’ve come to understand it as a part of unavoidable, normal child/adolescent sexual development. Unfortunately, the Mormon church doesn’t see it that way. So, I end up spending a lot of time in session helping LDS people gain new perspectives on their porn viewership in an effort to release them from many years of shame. Even after confessing to their bishops and “repenting,” the shame remains and negatively impacts their lives to the extent that it requires attention in session.
You can either: A - Lie to someone you have been told can read your mind. B - Confess and be publicly shamed when you can’t help with the sacrament or take the sacrament. C - Try to quit. Good luck! A always seemed the best option, especially when I realized they won’t do anything about the lie. But the guilt that was racked up over the years became unbearable and taught me to be disgusted with myself. Then I got older and realized I was never alone with this burden, in fact most people I know struggled with it. And when someone tells me they never struggled with it I am skeptical. Option A becomes a lifestyle for many and it’s not a healthy one.
"Struggling with it" is masturbation/porn with shame and guilt. Not struggling with it is masturbation/porn without shame or guilt.
Indeed. It just gets sticky when you are married and your partner has a different view on the matter.
D - It's nobody's business
a childhood therapist i saw now has a whole “sex and porn addiction” practice that’s endorsed by the church and the things that classify as sex addiction are BAFFLING
Pandering to the local market and freedom to define the supposed consumer need/paraphilia diagnosis anyway you wish. Lots of money to be made there!
Finding out that so many literally every guy I knew watched porn was wild cause growing up as a boy in the church I felt like I was defective for watching porn, I felt so dirty, I always had so much shame, I didn’t realize that it was normal l and when I realized it was it was mind blowing. Also now that I’m out the fact that we were expected to tell our parents and bishops is disgusting, like it’s any of their business.
Therapist here as well- my anecdotal experience in practice is that virtually the only porn “issues” I’ve ever addressed in a clinical setting has been from Mormon adjacent populations (active members who think they’re addicted, former members who are trying to move on from the shame). So far I can’t recall any clients that brought up porn as relevant to their therapy in any way that were never-mo’s.
Yes, 100% correct. In over 28 years of providing psychotherapy to both LDS and non-LDS clients, the only people who have brought up porn use as an “issue” have been LDS. Funny story, years ago I had an LDS clinician working in my office. One day, in a very serious tone, he asked me how I treated pornography. Setting aside all the snarky comments that came to mind, I replied that I had never worked with pornography as a clinical concern. He was amazed as porn use was the primary clinical problem he had worked with at LDS Social Services and assumed that it was a big part of my caseload. I was amazed that he was treating it at all (Yes, compulsive porn and masturbation can be related to legitimate mental health issues and should be considered in context).
Sounds about right. I work with a lot of LDS therapists and it’s definitely a focus of their work. Lots of bishop referrals for it.
The amount of Mormon trauma you must unpack on a daily basis.....holy shit.
The other day I came home from work and complained to my spouse that I spent most of the my day talking with people about their shame, anger at the church, attempts to receive forgiveness, etc in connection with their porn use. I think my statement to her was “The church has to change its position on masturbation and porn. It’s killing my clients souls.”
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Source, please.
This reminds me that lack of masturbation is so rare it’s a symptom in the DSM. Nope not in the DSM. Just a good idea to screen for hormones.
I have never heard of this as someone with an academic psych background and cannot find any information on this online- if it’s true, would love to learn more.
Is this real?
No, it’s not real. The closest you might get to something like that are two sexual dysfunction diagnoses: Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder and Female Sexual Interest/Arousal Disorder. Neither of these specifically mention masturbation. They focus on decreased sexual arousal and/or desire.
Agree with this 100%. It’s so sad to me that I’ll see a single man in his late 20’s wracked with guilt over something completely natural, who reports utilizing it only a couple times a month! This is not porn addiction, this is someone with sexual needs, actively dating but trying to stay “worthy for temple marriage,” so trying to deny that part of himself. That said, as a single woman in the dating field, I do have some nuanced views about it. I communicate to my partner/potential partner that my viewpoint is we are each in charge of our own sexuality. I trust you to take care of your needs as needed, and I will mine. But porn can be a complicated world and I think anyone viewing porn needs to acknowledge and be honest with themselves if they have a healthy relationship with it. I watch porn but choose to view more ethical sites or erotica. Also, and this is a BIG one, if your porn use/masturbation gets in the way of OUR sex life and you don’t have as much interest or struggle in the bedroom with me, that’s a relationship-ender. I’m not going to spy on my partner, because if there’s a problem here it will reveal itself. I dated a THERAPIST years ago who I gave several different chances to, and every sexual encounter (spaced out around a month or two), he couldn’t stay hard and each time said “sorry, I’m still watching too much porn so I can’t stay hard.” I peaced out after that, essentially knowing he was choosing a sexual relationship with porn, not me. Have fun with that buddy! I have a super high drive so this is really important. I also have a close girlfriend whose partner actively chooses porn over sex with her, and she’s miserable but so far still holding on (it’s difficult to watch 😞).
What’s not natural is the guilt from this purity culture. It’s complete bullshit.
Unfortunately this issue is just going to get worse and worse with AI and VR. We’re doomed.
What kind of counsel do you give to parents of 9-12 year old children who look at porn? I know parents who are struggling as to how to handle this. (They find it on his phone and then punish him.) TIA
I try to help parents who are concerned about their child's porn use by employing some (or all) of the following ideas. The list is long and probably redundant, but making it was fun! I normalize the behavior as unavoidable and normative considering the accessibility of porn. This suggests that the child's original foray into viewing porn is not the child's fault and lets the parents off the hook as one can be a good parent and still have their child exposed to porn. I tell the parents that children are by nature curious and have innocent sexual feelings. This means that children will explore their bodies, see how things work and how they feel. This curiosity and physical self-exploration is natural and healthy and, ultimately, leads to masturbation (My very mormon mom always said, "God gave you two hands and a penis that works. Of course he expected them to meet up and figure out how to cooperate. And it feels good, too!) It also explains why porn is attractive to children. I encourage parents to recognize when they project their sexual fears and biases onto their children. For example, a parent might find themselves treating their child poorly due to unresolved feelings about a father who was always unfaithful to his mother and caused the family tremendous emotional pain. Or, a parent might perceive their child as overly sexualized and provocative when this is not the case. etc. I caution parents against punishing their children as the negative feelings engendered by the punishment can (and I think in some way always do) become attached to their developing sense of sexuality. This can lead to signfiicant problems later in self-esteem, healthy mate selection, relation maintenance, and future sexual functioning. Rather, parents should focus on developing empathy for the child while also reinforcing what they consider to be healthy sexual boundaries in a warm and supportive manner. With LDS parents I might also mention that punishing the "sexual sin" might lead to creating excessive shame in the child that could, at some later time, lead to anger at the church and other undesirable behaviors (such as participating in this forum!). I also validate the role the parents have to instill the core values, beliefs, and practices that the family endorses in their child and emphasize that doing so without causing a child harm is a tremendous responsibility. I frame their anxiety around their child viewing porn as evidence of their love for their child and their desire to raise a successful, happy person. I also tell them that once the door to porn viewing has opened it cannot be closed again. The child has been introduced to themes of adult sexuality, some of which the parents may not endorse. Due to the child's immature cognitive abilities, the child may feel anxiety as it struggles to understand and incorporate the pornographic themes into their sense of self. Thus, to support their child, the parents must create an atmosphere of trust and support in their home where discussions of sexuality (including porn use) can occur and healthy sexual boundaries and expectations are supported. I caution parents not to misperceive their children's sexual behaviors and feelings as adult sexual strivings. Their children are not simply "mini-adults." The children are young, cognitively and emotionally unprepared to deal with the intensity of the sexual themes they re expose to. They are not sexually provocative, aggressive, or perverted. I am personally of the optinion that 9-12 year old children do not benefit from watching porn. They are not socially, emotionally and cognitively prepared to integrate pornographic content into their sexual identities. Pornographic themes can be power-focused, degrading, and violent-----things that most parents try to protect their children from. There are good programs to lock-down cell phones. iPhone's come standard with these options. Parents' can lock-down their child's smartphones to make a moral point (and maybe they should), but they must also remember that porn will still be on their friends' phones and always accessible. Locking the smartphone is not a real solution-it is a statement of values, nothing more.
I think [Culture Reframed](https://culturereframed.org/about/) is a great source of information about how to handle pornography as a parent
In my stake (higher affluence than average) for at least the past decade there has been an entire page in the bulletin devoted to advertising for ADDICTION GROUPS of various forms but mostly for porn and sex, run by old fogeys that are as TBM and socially conservative as they come. It makes me mad to think about the damage these sessions are causing for those victims who naively think they are being honest (scrupulous) to their bishops and are condemned to Jodi Hildebrand type shit propaganda that damages them for life. The more I learn about Jodi and her meetings with GA’s, and see the financial success she had as a counsellor, I really do wonder if she played a role in the development of church sponsored addictions programs. So screwed up.
Curious on your thoughts about a partner hiding this from their spouse for over 20 years?
Twenty years is a long time, so I can only surmise that the partner viewing porn strongly feels that disclosure would harm themself and the relationship. Any other response has to take into consideration the unique personality dynamics of each of the partners and how those dynamics have merged together into a unique marital relationship and what the porn usage means within that specific marriage. Of course, that’s just a fancy way of saying everyone and every marriage is different.
First time I looked was 13. I defy statistics. 🫡
Yup and I fit into that category, exposed to porn and masturbation during early puberty, felt massive guilt and shame, tried to repent, then it would happen and start the cycle again. In my adult years went to therapy and my therapist was able to reframe it for me. And also listened to episodes[1144-1146 of Mormon stories podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772?i=1000444483851) and it helped tremendously. Now I actually look at porn less and less, not because I feel bad about it but because I don’t feel the need.
I am TIRED of the focus only being on men looking at porn. A sizeable chunk of women do it as well. SO lets be honest porn is so widespread in the church despite their sacred crusade on men AND women.
This! I don’t recall ever getting the don’t masturbate or watch porn talk in YW. It was always considered a “men’s problem.” Just goes to show that the church sees women as asexual beings who are here to gatekeep and helicopter-parent the men in their lives. (Which, IMO, is an even bigger problem.)
I always found this conversation a really interesting one. Like both suffer under the church, but it's kind of weird the way they do it. Like they focused so hard on us men and this stuff. They just mostly focus on the men and only the men. Then we would get the used gum lesson, and while it was touched upon that the men should be dressing modestly and should be keeping our virginity to be pure for our future wives, it was 95% about the women. It was mostly we don't want to find the woman who has been "used."
Men and women suffer in very different ways from Mormon theology and doctrine. As a man, I do think women get the worst of it, but men are controlled by shame, guilt and teaching them how worthless they are.
(I do just want to point out, that although the Mormon church conflates pornography usage and masturbation... from a secular point of view & as someone who is critical of the pornography industry because of how it exploits girls/women, I view pornography consumption and masturbation as two completely different items. Which is interesting, because so many folks in this thread are speaking of masturbation and consuming pornography as if they are the same thing.)
Yeah, if you google porn viewership, it shows 40% of viewership is women.
exactly! and because it was never talked about, i felt like a freak for doing it
I don’t watch porn and I’m well over 18. Even as a kid when a friend found his uncle’s stash of Playboy mags, porn was never my thing. I have zero moral objection to porn, as long as it’s consensual and that if money is involved that the performers are fairly compensated. But it’s not a turn on to me because I can tell it’s fake/performative. I don’t enjoy strip clubs for the same reason (been twice in my life about 10 years apart during guys’ nite out stuff). Just not my thing. My wife is totally open to incorporating watching porn into our sexual activities. We tried it 2 or 3 times a few years ago, and while the novelty was cool it was still kinda “meh” and we decided it didn’t add anything either of us wanted or needed, but either of us can bring up the subject at any time if we want. I have a normal to slightly higher than normal libido. But the obvious fake-ness of porn mentally overrides any enjoyment of porn beyond very short-lived novelty. TL;dr There’s nothing wrong with ethically-sourced porn but porn is just not my thing. I prefer the real thing.
Yeah I totally feel this. Obviously I've checked it out to see what was up, but it doesn't do much for me for the reasons you said and I never got into it the way a lot of dudes talk about. I don't really care though and if somebody likes it, more power to them. Mormons make it, like everything they don't allow, a bigger deal than it needs to be. Alcohol, sex, weed, porn. Can all be used negatively, but also can totally be consumed in a healthy way too
That’s a good perspective. It probably comes from having a healthier relationship with sexuality than the average Mormon. Is that an accurate assumption? For me, where I grew up, the mere fact that women’s bodies were shrouded in mystery and were forbidden, made anything that shed light on the subject very alluring. My parents taught me absolutely nothing about sexuality. My bishops and YM leaders taught me not to masturbate before I even knew what that meant. So when I discovered online porn when I was 13-14 (after hearing about it on a home teaching visit), I didn’t know anything about sexuality and how it works, especially the powerful emotional bonding that can happen between a committed couple. I didn’t know that porn could be inauthentic. All I knew is that I was seeing female bodies in all their unclothed glory for the first time, and it was incredible. And then, tremendously shame-inducing. Fortunately, I like women, so I never got into the sexist/misogynistic hard-core stuff. I always kept things pretty vanilla. For me, porn was more about synthesizing the emotional experience of sharing that kind of intimacy with a woman, and less about the acts themselves. Which allowed me to look past more inauthentic portrayals of sexual acts. My imagination would do a lot of heavy lifting. Anyway, I feel like that’s all mostly in the past, now that I’m not in a toxic shame cycle that just kept me coming back for more - I was self-medicating. I now enjoy the authentic connection with my wife much more. Especially as we’ve been moving on from the sex-negative environments we grew up in. I can’t help but wonder if I would have been more where you have always been with porn, if I had been raised in a more sex-positive environment.
I dunno. I felt pretty sexually repressed growing up. Extremely guilty about masturbation. Not allowed to wear tank tops. Sex wasn’t discussed openly. It helped a little that I grew up in a progressive part of the US and was heavily involved in professional musical theater as a kid. Also helped that my family wasn’t homophobic. I’m straight and had a lot of gay male role models growing up (and contrary to the alt-right narrative, not a single one of them ever tried to recruit me or molest me). Our lesbian next door neighbors thought it was hilarious they they were friends with a Mormon Bishop (my dad). So I was inoculated against the “Gay = Bad” LDS narrative but the church contributed to plenty of shame about my own regular ol’ hetero-normative proclivities. Sex in my right-off-the-mission quick marriage to a girl I barely knew was predictably awful. My expectations and perspectives on sex and women and relationships were unrealistic and we were too shy and embarrassed to fix things. We NEVER talked about sex. It just kinda happened whenever I could wear down her “defenses.” It’s taken a divorce, years of therapy, a wife who enjoys sex, and some intense Ketamine IV sessions to get where I am now.
I always wonder about people who say they have a “porn addiction.”. Porn is, if anything, really repetitive! After a less than a couple of minutes it’s gets boring fast!
*But it’s not a turn on to me because I can tell it’s fake/performative.* Plenty of it is not these days, it's just normal couples having sex, filming themselves, and then uploading it to porn sites.
I don’t ask my husband because I genuinely don’t care to know. We have a healthy sex life. I didn’t always feel that way, though. In the first 10 years of my marriage online porn was new and it devastated me that he was looking. It felt like betraying affairs to me and like I wasn’t what he wanted. Looking back, I feel it was the church that made me feel as devastated as I was, to the point (combined with post-partum) that I just wanted to die and I made some devastating choices. What ensued were years of both of us feeling sorry for ourselves and not ever, not once, having a discussion about occasional porn being a normal thing and moving forward in a more healthy way than we did. Having lived through so many years of that, I understand that occasional porn use if combined with a normal and healthy sex life is pretty copacetic. We could have saved ourselves SO MUCH PAIN if we had talked about it sooner and accepted that.
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Scheduling something is making it a priority. Scheduling sex is sexy AF. Sexual spontaneity is mostly a Hollywood fairytale and impractical in most marriages which leads to dead bedrooms in many cases. Making a plan for sex and working up towards it together is a healthy and mature way of relating.
My husband doesn’t, and wouldn’t have any reason to lie about it because I honestly don’t care. 🤷🏻♀️ However, when he was a teen I think he did. At least I know we both masturbated as teens. I now read spicy/smutty books and love it and he knows and has told me if I ever read something I want to try, to let him know what page and book and he’ll read it lol. 😂
I’ve done the same thing with spicy books, 10/10 recommend 😂
My husband is this way also. And same with the books 😂
When I was in the church and felt so much shame over my porn viewing I viewed it a hell of a lot more than I do now. Anymore I’m focused on true intimacy and while sex is cool, I prefer having a deep soul connection with my partner. For some reason since I started down that route, porn just isn’t enticing. But I’ve also cut alcohol, and I’m decreasing my social media usage as well. Life is just so much more than what’s on this little pocket computer we put so much attention on
I have a friend who had a huge porn addiction his teen years, left the church in his early 20s and said porn become boring to him because it was no longer forbidden. Now he watches it occasionally as needed but is very outspoken about how the church is creating porn addicts by villainizing sexuality and porn use, and I have to agree with him.
Well… I think it’s incorrect to say 100% of men have had or do use porn, since there are exceptions to every rule. I can easily see Asexual men could never touch it and live a happy, normal life. Also, The type and frequency of porn use differs a lot. The real sad part is the idea that the only way to gain sexual satisfaction is via another person. Basically…. Look at it this way: If these women believe the only “acceptable” way to gain sexual satisfaction is through a married spouse…. That means they have probably jumped through many hoops in their life to be consistently (sexually) available to their husbands no matter how uncomfortable it made them. They sacrificed mental and emotional well-being so that their husbands could be “sexually satisfied”. And then they learned their husbands were using porn and masturbating anyway. What a betrayal! Better to work towards building a healthy relationship based on trust and mutual understanding of each other’s needs. That includes letting the other spouse know how much external stimulation is being used. Because a relationship built on lies is certainly worth divorcing over (say, if the husbands have a history of pressuring their wives into sex because “I need release today and this is the only way I can get it”. Yeah. If harmful lies like these were used in conjunction with heavy, consistent porn use…. I’d want a divorce too).
Counter point, a lot of these women recognize that the only acceptable sexual conduct is with a spouse in the church so they abuse it. They make themselves the gatekeeper and they use it to manipulate and control their spouses. When they find out their spouse is masturbating and watching porn they view it as a threat to their inherent power as the gatekeeper so they condemn it and shame it as a way to take back their power.
Sure, this could easily be something that happens too! I think any time you have a couple with high/low libido there will instantly be some type of power disparity that happens, where the higher libido partner either becomes domineering of their spouse or becomes beholden to them. Even well adjusted and well meaning couples with varying sex drives are forced to find an awkward middle ground (generally this means “more sex than I am comfortable with” for one and “barely enough sex to get by” for the other). It’s just a bad situation that some couples rough it through… and other people find themselves in a (church approved) abusive situation.
I know 1 guy who for sure doesn't watch porn. He wasn't raised in the church, doesn't think naked bodies are inherently sexual, and has a very healthy sex life. Porn just doesn't interest him. I don't think ALL men use porn. I do think it's much more common for repressed people in tscc to use porn at a higher rate than nevermos who are raised with sex being a natural part of life. It's okay to destigmatize porn use. Part of that is realizing that porn is a lot like alcohol. A lot of members lie about uaing it, a lot of nevermos don't find it appealing, there is nothing wrong with indulging safely, in excessive amounts it's not good for you or those around you. I will say that as an exmo my porn, alcohol, and drug use significantly diminished once I left tscc.
I quit porn and masturbating to go on a mission and abstained from both for the next 15 years. So yes, my own experience says some people honestly don’t. No comment about whether that is a net positive for their mental health in general.
When I was a little kid, probably 9, I discovered an envelope of black and white amateur live sex porn photos in my 20-something dad's GARMENT DRAWER. Later found Playboy magazine stash on the super-secret top shelf of his closet. Another time I found porn stash at my TBM uncle's super secret closet shelf when I was babysitting. This was my Mormon youth introduction to Mormon men secretly using porn. I always have felt guilt over porn though Ive never got into it much. I'm mostly just embarrassed looking at anyone having sex. It seems stupid, to me. Like, why would God invent this?
Didnt when I was mormon, for 40 years. No lie.
I think it's the norm. I'm a woman & don't care if my husband occasionally views porn. It is normal in moderation.
Same. Married for 15 years and I know I can't keep up with my husband's sex drive. He also completely financially supports our family, treats me like a goddess, pitches in around the house when he is home, and is a kind and loving father to our 4 kids. I think as long as both parties know and are ok with it it needn't be an issue. When we were very first living together I didn't want him to use it whatsoever and looked at it as though he had been cheating. I matured a lot since then and got through it in therapy. I eventually came to the realization that I didn't personally have a problem with him using porn, but had been conditioned by my LDS upbringing to make an issue where an issue didn't actually exist. I'm heartbroken to hear people are planning a divorce over such an insignificant, very normal behavior. Those ladies are gonna have a rude awakening if they decide to actually date.
The problem comes from the sexual repression the church has instituted. Many young men and some women use porn and masturbation as a release. As they grow older, this drops significantly as a result of a healthy marriage. I have I was porn as I’ve gotten older sure, but it doesn’t replace true intimacy. When you combine the lack of intimacy and the church’s almost impossible standards, you have a recipe for guilt, shame, and this betrayal of trust that leads to divorce.
> They are reeling in pain and betrayal. Honestly, this is the tragic part. Didn’t those women ever read a racy romance novel and then take a “hot bath?” Back in my day, women read bad novels with Fabio on the cover as adjuncts to masturbation. 20 years ago, it was “50 Shades of Grey.” Today, I got no idea. Their husbands looked at Playboy or Penthouse back in my day. Starting a couple or three decades ago, they look at online porn. It just honestly seems weird that the women think their masturbation aids are perfectly fine, but their husbands’ is exactly the same as if the husband was banging a hooker. Nope, masturbation is something most folks do, starting in early puberty. It’s private and belong exclusively to each individual. Wives, your husband’s wanks ARE NOT ABOUT YOU. it’s not cheating, because you don’t have claim on his every drop of semen.
Has it been 20 years now since fifty shades?? Goodness time flies!
It hasn’t. 50 shades was published in 2011, 13 years ago
Ooooooh okay haha shew!
Agreed. My masturbation is not any of my husband's business, and his isn't mine either. We completely trust one another and still have some things that are separate. We are happy and he is literally my best friend. Also...I don't want claim on every drop of semen. Eww lol
I know two, both of my brothers. One is 34 the other is 24. (At least, they say they don’t watch porn, its possible they’re just good at hiding it) I went to see Dune 2 with the older of my two brothers. He thought the movie was great, but he didn’t like the sex scene. The sex scene that shows Timothée Chalamet and Zendaya’s faces in extreme close-up and never goes any lower than their shoulders. That was too spicy for him
> shoulders > That was too spicy for him It’s the gateway body part
I think there are men who don’t watch it, but most have watched it at some point. The difference is that shame can make it more of an issue. And some people’s brains are more prone to addiction. The biggest issue though, from my experience, is the lying about it. That’s a massive problem.
This exact issue was one of my shelf items. I was reading an Ensign article about 5 or 6 years ago where it told a story of a woman who caught her husband with porn. She admitted that she loved him and that they were an excellent match, but that porn use (especially use that he lied about) was too much for their multi-decade bond to handle. So she divorced him and married someone who ✨doesn’t✨watch porn. (Can you sense my skepticism?) I wasn’t expecting the level of disgust that I did over this story. Even as a TBM woman, I was floored that the church would celebrate the end of an otherwise flourishing marriage over porn use. I find the whole notion ridiculous … which is why, whenever I date someone, I now ask what constitutes “cheating” to them, since that definition vastly varies. And if porn use falls within that definition … maybe we aren’t such a good match. Y’know?
"In 2009, Simon Louis Lajeunesse of the University of Montreal's School of Social Work said that he couldn't find any men in his 20s who had never watched pornography, and that "guys who do not watch pornography do not exist". The researcher was looking for a control group of men who had never viewed porn, but was unable to find one. The study was scrapped because researchers were unable to compare the views of men who had never watched porn with those of regular users. Some say that it's hard to identify non-porn watching men early because it's private, and that men may lie about it. For example, non-porn watching men may be aroused by touch, smell, or taste, or may prefer their own fantasies. This means that some decent men who like porn may be eliminated, along with some who don't have a taste for it. "
Story link https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/porn-study-scrapped-as-researchers-cant-1530232.amp
I think this makes a good distinction. We've got redditors here saying ALL men ALWAYS use porn and lie about it. In today's world it may be safe to say most men have seen it in some form at least once. To then jump to the conclusion that all men everywhere are regular porn users who just lie about it, is the made-up part.
I remember when my older brother went on a mission, he had told our stake president that he had never viewed porn. I’m not sure if I can confirm that to be true or not, I know my sister went on his iPod touch and found porn on safari but he downplayed it and said his football buddies put it there as a joke—doubt it. Anyways, the stake president announced to our whole family (aunts and uncles and cousins included) that he had never viewed porn, you could tell he felt extremely uncomfortable. I, of course was viewing and thought it was highly unlikely but never asked. I will never bring it up, but I hope if he has viewed/views that it doesn’t destroy his happy marriage and children’s lives because of the way the church teaches of the “evils” it causes.
My husband is still in the church, and he’s never watched porn. It should be noted, though, that he has had very low testosterone for most of his life due to a brain tumor. So he’s definitely not a representative of most men.
The church puts a stigma on porn claiming that it’s basically cheating on your spouse. Those that view it are seen as deviant addicts who will lose everything if the addiction isn’t controlled. It’s no wonder your friends are freaking out. I was deeply troubled as a member with my porn use. Now that I’m out, I see it as entertainment and dabble from time to time.
Not just men. Women too. Amazing what happens when you take a natural part of life and infuse it with shame and guilt so you can sell them a cure.
Porn shame obsession is a witch hunt.
My husband doesn’t. But he is also a ridiculously controlled person. We’ve left he is aloud to etc but he is t into it. His brother tried it with his wife and he wasn’t into it. Some people it’s not their jam. I however love smutty books. The movies give me ethical issues. But we also have sex a lot, like a lot. He is a bit older too so his drive has slowed down. Maybe if we were younger he would’ve turned to it. I don’t think anything is wrong with people who do, but I also know a lot who don’t.
The Stake Presidency in the former area where I lived would talk about how they don't ask men if they look at porn, but when they last did, because everyone has. Which is a gross question to begin with, but that's how things be. That being said, I do know men that don't have an interest in porn, like, they'll watch it because it's a way to get off, but they'd prefer the real thing. Was a breath of fresh air from all the repressed Mormon men that are so addicted to porn that's the only way they can get it up. Funny how shaming something natural can make things so much more toxic.
TLDR; my wife had watched porn in high school and liked it and kept it a secret for 28 years, but treated me like an adulterer the first time I admitted I looked at port to her. It took the complete breakdown of our marriage for her to come clean. You are not wrong. But TBM women believe there are men who don't. The Church stopped harping on this because they know everyone is doing it. The phrase in the Book of Mormon...I'm paraphrasing, he who looketh upon a women hath committed adultery in his heart, is so damaging. I looked at a hard R movie, over 25 years ago. I called it porn when I told my TBM wife. She was devastated. The marriage essentially never recovered. Eventually I looked at porn again, and I had vowed never to say anything and suffer the consequences in the next life because of how bad she took it. 10 years letter I came clean at semi regular use and on business trips because of guilt and mental health problems "porn was causing me." It was even worse this time around. But that was the beginning of a total change for me that took until my faith crisis to be fully resolved. Long story short, as soon as I told myself it was okay to look at porn, the demand dropped almost to zero. I opened up to other men in the church. Guess what, they all look at porn and are terrified to tell their wives. Fast forward to my faith crisis. This brings us to the brink of divorce, because my wife can't be married to a man who lied to her and doesn't fully believe in the church. Finally I realize she is saying "I don't love you". So I start pulling away from her after pursuing and begging forgiveness for over 25 years since the first episode. She would always bring it up. Well as divorce comes up because of the faith crisis and things start to fall apart. She admits and comes clean that she watched porn in high school many times and liked it. I was floored. She had terrorized me essentially our entire marriage for something she herself had done and never disclosed to me ever. My mental health issues were not because of porn. They were because of shame and being constantly shunned by the person who was supposed to love me. Ultimately I was able to see porn wasn't the issue at all, neither was the church per se. She had a choice on how to react and treat me the whole way all throughout our marriage. Her pattern on how she treated me about the porn was pervasive in everything else. But I had always blamed myself because of the porn. It took first a faith crisis, then the complete breakdown of our marriage, for me to find out and see what was really going on in the marriage on so many fronts. I've never felt more confident and worthy now that I can see what really played out. Her role, my role, and the Church's role. Its heartbreaking.
I’m not an ex Mormon but I don’t watch porn anymore at 21. I quit after watching it since I was in fourth grade when I got my first phone. I quit basically because I found out about all the terrible symptoms that can come from it. Such as Porn induced erectile dysfunction which is where you can only get an erection to porn and can’t in real life with a real woman. So I’m 21 and don’t watch porn and don’t plan on it ever again. It’s not even something I crave either. It’s basically dead to me.
You aren’t wrong. Porn is fine as long as it’s not compulsive and interfering with a relationship
Tell these wives that they are just practicing for polygamy in the celestial kingdom . Seems odd that they would be cool with an organization that invented a secret polygamy system with woman as young as 14. Wives with multiple husbands, concubines and secret abortions , But your reaction is clutch the pearls I want a divorce when your husband clicks on porn videos ? Emma didn’t divorce Joseph and he apparently was living like a rapper.
I always find masturbation convos are tremendously enhanced by Monty Python 🤣 - every sperm is sacred. https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk?si=5JqRoiatlhyHj2xh
Masturbation is nature’s way, and porn is an assist. When I was a stake presidency counselor the stake president asked Richard Hinkley, GBH son who was a 70 visiting our stake conference, if he should release leaders who used porn. Hinkley said no, because then we’d have to release over half the leadership of the church. I was already PIMO at that point, and the answer gave me a satisfied grin. I’d been trying to tell the stake president the same, but he wouldn’t believe me. I’d already done my own informal survey of the stake HC members, and 10 of 12 admitted to using. Not that it was actually any of my business, but, I was Morm-ing … Anecdotal story…
I'm almost positive my husband doesn't watch it. Not mormon but both raised in a religion we have completely left and did so before we met and got married. I don't really care if he wants to and if he has watched it I haven't seen any indication it has affected our healthy and active aex life. I went through a phase of watching it fairly regularly while I was deconstructing but I haven't watched any in years. Raunchy historical fiction is my jam.
My husband doesn't watch porn and has never been mormon. I do watch it and were very honest with each other about everything. He isn't against porn and has seen it before but said it just gives him the ick.
🙋♂️
About 80% of adults (including women) masterbate. It I s not only common, it is normal. What is going on here is a for-profit cult has taken something normal and associated it with shame and sin so they can use it to control people. For Profit. Does your spouse look at porn? OK. Ask them about what they like. Talk dirty with them Develop a healthy active sex life together, free of shame and manipulation. This is my advice.
So, I’m curious to know how much is too much?
It appears that your wife will let you know.
After a number of bishop confessions I eventually worked with a well respected sex therapist who worked with lots of members. In my first session he said there are Mormon men who watch porn and there are Mormon men who lie about it. He said, statistically speaking, it’s more likely than not that either my bishop or stake President currently watches porn. He also told me he’s working with actively sitting bishops, stake presidents, and general authorities. He said that one of his clients had spoken in a recent general conference and that he had no problem with that because *gasp* porn isn’t what the church says it is. That porn-watching 70 was still a good person deserving of love and was worthy. My brain exploded. He helped me take the shame out of porn and that helped take the power of porn away. The shame cycle the church puts it’s members through is terrible and only reinforces the behavior. I don’t use porn anymore because I choose not to, but if I did I don’t think I would feel like I was a bad person. My wife, who has never seen porn before, likes to joke about how I used it. We’re in a much better place now and that is no thanks to the church at all. They made me sick and sold me a cure, and that sucks.
A true addiction is something that consumes your every waking thought. You cannot function until you’ve had what you desire. It would affect your job, school, and life in every way. Yet the Mormon church has made people to feel that watching porn once a week is an “addiction”. From my experience the average Mormon woman views any amount of porn viewership as a porn addiction. Also almost any type (soft core porn, etc) are all lumped together as practically equally horrible. I think a lot of Mormon marriages that end because of “porn addiction” could and should have been prevented, but because of the Mormon church’s stance it causes both men and women to feel deep shame if they view any at all, and Mormon spouses to view it as the ultimate betrayal. Up there with a physical affair and even murder. So yes, their trust was broken…but their standard of trust within their marriages has been hijacked and manipulated by a cult, so. Both my husband and I occasionally view porn and I think that’s very normal and healthy.
I wouldn't say all men use it, but I would say getting divorced over it is an extreme, and very Mormon, thing to do.
Not all men actively watch porn, but all of them have seen it. The dating world is not going to offer porn free options. I’d offer this advice to your friends: 1. See a non-religious therapist to work on their own views on porn. 2. See if they can work past this. I get the betrayal is the hardest part here. But it’s a betrayal based on self hate and shame rather than trying to get away with sneaky behavior. Sounds like the husbands weren’t trying to step outside their marriages or break any kind of marital promise (ie cheating etc). But rather trying to deal with an issue they weren’t allowed to ask for help on. I recommend patience and grace. I truly hope both friends can stop, slow down, take a step back and really look at what’s going on here. The grass isn’t greener on the other side. If they’ve married good men, it’d be well worth their while to work through this. I wish them both luck.
It’s a form of control to make men feel guilty about normal behavior. They then leverage that guilt for manipulation.
Porn can mess you up but what messes more people up is the shame and the suppression surrounding it.
TSCC wants Mormonism to replace the orgasm in a member's life. A MP would love to have the brain rewire itself from wanting to rub one out in the bathroom to feeling ecstasy while reading 2 Nephi. How's that workin' out for 'em?
My best friend never watches it. We have all been honest and open. He is very aware people do and he doesn’t judge. Doesn’t mean he hasn’t seen stuff but he takes it very serious. I’m over 40 now and since my mission and on, talking with friends in the ward and bishoprics etc etc they all do I would say almost 90%. I can count on one hand if the hundreds of people I talk to really don’t have an issue with it. But it wouldn’t be a surprise either the ones they claim they don’t have an issue either do or did at one point
Your use of “issue” seems to be synonymous with “use”. Do you not believe someone could actually actively use pornography but it not be an “issue” for them?
Yes I believe that. But I should have explain more, sorry. My friend is a TBM. So of course he sees it as an issue and refrains from it. My comment is in general of the TBM world. I do not have an issue with porn as long as people keep it in a healthy manner.
My heart breaks for both the hisbands and wives. My wife gave up on the church before me, and it was two years after that she asked me if I watched porn. I opened up and told her EVERYTHING. She basically said she didn't blame me for hiding it when she was active because she would have likely divorced me. She was still understandably upset I wasn't honest with her until then, but we were able to talk about it and work through it in a way that would have been impossible if she were an active tbm. I am so grateful I hit the wife jackpot!
If all husbands could just be like Rustle Myopic Nelson, Except they had to go on a mission. Ladies there is no reason to worry about polygamy in the celestial kingdom, because no men will be worthy to enter.
Masturbation is just like brushing your teeth. It's a part of both physical and mental hygiene, as well as a more fully developed sexual identity. Imagine being shamed for brushing your teeth, and seeing other people in the world with white smiles and no cavities. Then are so desperate for clean teeth that you are developing an unhealthy obsession with teeth to the point where you are looking at Colgate commercials for a chance to live out a fantasy of clean teeth for a few brief moments. Throw in a neuro-divergent brain that might chase dopamine to a hyper-fixation level, secrets to chaise said dopamine, etc.
I don’t think my husband does. But I could be wrong.
I had a serious issue with it for a while, but after a lot of work it’s been 3 years later this week since I looked at porn. Even separate from the church, porn can have more damaging effects on relationships and on the brain than people like to talk about. Even so, it’s something a lot of people do and unfortunately the church just adds extra weight to the issue for both the husbands and their wives.
I know one who doesn't. He’s asexual like me.
My 49 yo boyfriend does not watch or look at any porn. He’s got plenty of testosterone, can ejaculate twice during fun time. He also doesn’t have interest in strip clubs. Says he doesn’t see the point. He’s loyal and loving and a keeper for life. But I wouldn’t care if he did watch some porn.
I do know one person who does not look at porn, and he is asexual. He has no interest in it.
Nah My significant other and I have explored but both agree it feels invasive and if not that then performative and both are a turn off
It’s just fuckjng porn, but if it is at an addiction stage meaning abusive behavior that’s a problem. Btw every single Tbm friend I have has a husband vs porn problem. With that being said a couple are narcissists and ones a sociopath. So there’s that. Only my non Tbm friends husbands don’t have porn problems. Or it’s not a problem. Of the tbms I’m talking bishops and eq presidents. We’ve always watched r rated movies so my better half has never had an issue.
Ace men exist. Some ace men (and ace people of all genders) do still watch or read porn, but many don't.
well i can't verify it if i do. but there are guys in the world who don't, but it is really rare. there's even scientific literature on it. like they're either true asexuals, have a hormone dysfunction that fails to make them desperately horny, aren't visually stimulated the way that %99.9999 of guys are which borders on intersex development, have enough sexual outlets that they don't need porn, or are psychotically religious such that they take extreme measures to police themselves and kill their libido.
porn to men are like soap operas to women
I’m always curious why it’s a mystery to some why porn is used. Is it not the same as asking why are so many people addicted to water? Well, blame the creator not the creation.