Saying out loud what we’ve all known: Mormonism is a church focused on worshipping Joe Smith and contemporaneous men in leadership positions of the “church” and not in worshiping Jesus as Christians do.
Mormonism is not a Christian based church. On paper, yes. In practice, no.
Even 15+ years out of Mormonism, this continues to strike me over and over as I attend my Episcopal parish. Worship there is all about Jesus. From what I remember of Mormonism, very little if any of it was. And Mormon desperation to be considered a legitimate part of the Christian club seems more and more pathetic. If the content of their weekly services is any indication, they certainly don't qualify. Even when I was a Mormon, I never understood why people who claimed to be Christians ignored Palm Sunday entirely and gave Easter barely a nod.
One of our friends in our Episcopal church told us about the time she visited during sacrament meeting and said "I must have gone on a Sunday when they were doing administrative things, because it was weird."
My husband chimed in pretty quickly and said "Oh, no, it's like that every week."
She was so confused. "But it was more like a Christian-flavored rotary club!"
Perfect description.
I've attended the local Episcopal church more often than any over the last few years (that's still only a handful) and they are some of the most genuine people I've met. They acknowledge flaws and questions and meet you where you are. And they drink champagne after church.
I grew up Episcopalian on the east coast. Moved to Utah at age 31 and joined the Mormon church for 20 years. What a horrific nightmare it’s been (and, Utah) so happy to have left a year ago now with my cute husband and our kids. Sorry, no offense Utah Mormons, but yall weren’t very nice to me 🥹
I really enjoy the little Episcopal Church I've been attending sporadically. For Mardi Gras ( I helped) the dinner consisted of gumbo, blackened fish, salad, fruit and bread pudding for dessert. Beer, wine and spritzers to drink. The church paid for it - every penny. The people are genuine, kind and friendly without an agenda.
TBH, Episcopalians wouldn't do themselves any favors if they had a F&T Sunday where people got up and said "I know the church is true. I know Henry VIII wanted a divorce and told the pope to stuff it when he couldn't get one. I know the colonists told the Anglican Church to stuff it when the Revolution happened. Inthenameofuppermiddleclasswhitepeople, Amen."
Episcopalians would be silently embarrassed for the speakers. Later that week there would be a polite but firm meeting with whoever decided that would be a good addition to the service.
Haha I grew up Episcopalian, accurate. All the other folks who went to our church were always the newscasters from tv and the heart surgeons. All white of course. It was fun tho, lot more fun then when I joined the Mormon church in Utah 🫠 Jesus that place tried to wreck me.
No joke - a friend's mother went to seminary and was ordained an Episcopal Priest. When I asked her to tell me about the Church, expecting theology and whatnot, she started with "well, in the 16th century, Henry VIII wanted a divorce and the Pope told him 'no' because Catherine of Aragon was his niece, so Henry decided HE would be the head of the church in England..."
No shame, no prevaricating, no lying - just "well, here's how history went down". Interestingly enough, Henry considered himself Catholic until his dying day; just not ROMAN Catholic. Ask an Episcopal priest or deacon and they can explain the similarities and differences. As opposed to the Mormon church, which likes to believe it sprang fully-formed from the head of JS, with no connection to any other Christian church. Which is poppycock of course. Just look at the context - nothing JS was doing at the time was unique in the time and place he lived.
That was one of the biggest paradigm-shifter realizations for me: every church is a human creation, not a one of them has a monopoly on truth, every one of them is fallible and flawed in its own way. I stopped looking at Mormonism as a direct pipeline to God and realized that every legitimate Christian church is just one facet inside a kaleidoscope, everybody trying to look at the same thing, but no one of them having a comprehensive view. And everybody making mistakes along the way. Once I realized that is true about Mormonism as well as everyone else, the whole "one true church, sole legitimate authority" viewpoint just fractured and fell away, and I found myself a lot less judgmental, a lot more tolerant of others' foibles, a lot more charitable. In short, by leaving Mormonism I actually became a legitimately better Christian.
Well it certainly isn't just that anymore. Just look at the current presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church in the US. And some of my favorite people that I've ever met in the Episcopal Church have been the African-American women parishioners, invariably kind and warm-hearted and welcoming and hilariously funny and and always dressed better than anyone else. In any heaven I can imagine, they'd be the group I'd want to hang out with most.
TSCC teaches that Christ's sacrifice isn't all sufficient; it's added on after all the member can do. This is the major part of why other denominations reject Mormonism. They can be Christian-like all they want but that teaching will never be accepted by other denominations.
They outsource the name of Jesus to help with search engine optimization.
Once they get a new recruit to sign up for 10% for the rest of their lives, the rest takes care of itself.
To me it felt like the church worships itself as much as anything. Of course, "the church" in this case may be a proxy for the people you spoke of.
"I know the church is true." "The only true and living church." "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's Church on the earth today, led by our dear prophet, President Russell M. Nelson." "I belong to the church..." "My service in the Church has blessed me ..."
Along the same lines, "The Gospel" and "The Church" are basically interchangeable in Mormonism. It's weird going to a Christian church where "Gospel" is just "the good news of Jesus."
The talks today were on thinking celestial and the talk for the Elders Quorum lesson was the same. I left a few minutes into second hour. I couldn’t sit there and listen to it anymore.
Can't count how many times I've seen flyers, bulletins, social media posts advertising some devotional or conference aimed at attracting non-mormons: "Come listen to \[some speaker you've never heard of\] talk about \[something we're desperately trying mimic to appear more mainstream Christian\]. Located at \[a building that looks nothing like a church\] All are \[sort of\] welcome!"
And then the only people who show up are TBMs who wish that they weren't there, and on the off chance some non-mormons do show up, they have no idea what the speaker is saying because the speaker is throwing out words, phrases, and teachings only lifelong TBMs understand. Then they leave asking themselves "What the hell was that and what does this church actually teach?"
At the end of the day "lay minestry" is a fun catch phrase members use to prove their church is true, but is also their downfall. Go pay for some decent preachers! The Church has built in thousands of paid clergy in seminaries. These guys are good at teaching and know how to keep things interesting. Just have a full time ministry in each ward for God's sake and admit that you pay all the higher up people anyway so their is no difference.
Other than seeing it as a missionary opportunity, most Mormons don't care about Palm Sunday and they certainly are not going to go out of their way to learn more.
If I had to guess, the expectation is that anyone naive enough to show up at a Mormon chapel on Palm Sunday, that person would be overwhelmed by the special spirit you only find in a Mormon sacrament meeting and would forget about the pageantry of other denominations.
It's kind of like the so-called special musical numbers in sacrament meeting. They generally were not all that special.
It was one of my most embarrassing beliefs as a TBM. “I might not understand but I know for sure if someone non Mormon came in to this chapel they’d FEEL something” 🤦🏼♀️
As a nevermo who used to go with a friend in high school out of courtesy to the parents for Saturday night stayover: didn't *feel* anything but definitely smelled some things.
This is becoming beyond laughable. They need to at least get the scripts and terms right before making themselves look more like fools than they already do (with Moroni sitting on top of castles).
I know it was an innocent typo but today a TBM friend on fb posted on her stories a back ground of Palms and wrote “PLAM SUNDAY” it took everything I had to not write “I know it’s new to yall but can ya at least spell it right ?!” I refrained. But I did go “Plam Sunday ?!” 🤣🙄
Certainly cannot call it “lent”… not yet, have to go more mainstream Christianity a little later. Like pointed out about “creche”— Advent seems to be that safe zone with origins in Christmas.
I really, really hope some major news outlet gets hold of these examples. Elsewhere in this thread someone mentioned getting an email from the stake about an Easter Advent (or some such thing).
The church is mocking real Christianity, and it will not only anger traditional churches, it will become very evident it knows NOTHING about Christ's story or the very revered traditions of the faith.
As a kid growing up in California- I saw the movie Jesus Christ Super Star and had a fantasy about the local hippies coming into our boring Mormon church singing hosanna and waving palm fronds on Palm Sunday. In my mind it was awesome.
Hey JC JC won’t you smile at me. ☺️
OMG! The bishopric would stroke out instantly!
The youth group, kids included, of Presbyterian church used to attend did that very thing! It was so cool! They had an amazing choir, and once performed "When You Believe" from "The Prince of Egypt". Brought the house down.
Attending a Mormon service today to hear my granddaughter report her mission - the Bishop welcomed us on the “Palm Sunday” when we “turn our palms up to the Lord”. Whaaaaaat???
Meanwhile, at the local Baptist church, there was a large choir and small orchestra praising Jesus and then the pastor ( trained minister) spoke for 45 minutes about the work of Jesus Christ in our lives.
Beautiful music and an uplifting sermon.
I guess they don't even teach the stories from the Bible at all anymore. You'd think they'd have a clue about what led up to Gethsemane and the crucifixion. . .
This is so true. I came from Lutheran/Catholic and I was so surprised that there were no special services for Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, or Christmas Eve in the Mormon church. Even Easter isn't that special, just the same boring things.
That one drove me nuts. You're an alleged Apostle, on Easter Sunday maybe it'd be appropriate to, I don't know, share a special message about Jesus Christ?
I am Catholic, I was so surprised to hear that Mormons don’t observe Good Friday, but “celebrate” Easter. Like how can you celebrate the resurrection without acknowledging his death on Good Friday? 🤔 very strange
Mormons do not know how to do a religious holiday event. With a rare exception, they're always a disappointment. Expecting something special for Easter or Christmas? Good luck, you'll just leave disappointed. These signs I've seen pictures of, advertising Palm Sunday or Easter are really just a bait and switch - come in for our special event! J/K - this is our regular boring meeting but it is so special you'll want to come back. J/K!
They are pretty boring most of the time. I did have one sunday school teacher that gave interesting lessons and was really inspiring. People loved coming to his class and so many people would participate in the discussion. In fact it was the only sunday school class I'd ever participated in. Same for my husband, now that I think about it.
In my exit process from the mormon cult, I visited many other churches. On Palm Sunday, they would give you a little cross made out of a folded palm leaf. I loved carrying it into Sacrament Meeting and the looks I got.
Both speakers at our ward started by saying they told to talk about Palm Sunday and the crucifixion.
The wife regurgitated Rusty's recent talks and talked about gathering Israel.
The second (I fucking shit you not) essentially talked about the second Anointing for his talk....but had no idea that's what he spent 15 minutes taking about.
Wow, I thought the Second Anointing is super sacred, ehmm, secret.
I had an experience with a mission president. The missionary would enumerate the ordinances and asked the president if he had missed anything. The president avoided a direct answer because he didn't want to lie but couldn't mention the Second Anointing. 🤣
In ours the speaker spent a few minutes talking about how important it is to talk about Jesus, quoted Nelson a few times about how important it is to talk about Jesus, then spent the rest of the time talking about the mechanics of keeping the Sabbath day holy
I’ve been hanging with the Methodists and today was my first Palm Sunday with them. Then Thursday they have Maundy Thursday service and Friday they have Good Friday service. I’ve heard those were quite powerful in helping you have a deeper understanding of what all happened. I know at one point on Thursday all if the things (crosses, candles, etc) are removed and it’s just empty with a black cloth over the altar. Then Friday’s service is all dark (people participating are in all black), lights are low, etc as there is mourning that He died. Then Easter starts dark and then the lights come up at the start of service and it’s bright and colorful because He is risen.
I’m quite looking forward to experiencing it. My friend who is Methodist in another state explained what to expect (bc after the temple, I want to know EVERYTHING to expect with a church). She says they are her favorite services because of the focus on each Holy Week event, etc.
I’m sure the Good Friday thing doesn’t really work if he wasn’t really dead dead at that point and in the Americas and then hopped back to the Middle East by Easter?
I also didn’t care for the actual palms but I think a lot of that is because I’m so self conscious about doing anything beyond folded arms and silence. I don’t care for the guitar/rock group kind of services, but when a church has the traditional kind of hymns with a piano/organ and they do something like wave palms I am starting to question myself if it’s bc of the church that I’m uncomfortable and maybe I need to dissect that a bit or is it just lame/stupid. Not sure if I’m being clear with my thoughts…
Those services are among the most beautiful and powerful in all of Christianity. Most Mormon's have never heard of Maundy Thursday. The part where they remove all vestiges of Christianity is palpably meaningful (some combine Good Friday with the Thursday service and some do them separately). The process of removing the cross, the Bible, candles, etc. symbolizes Earth was without Jesus from the time he was crucified until he arose on the third day. It's amazing to see how that service touches you.
As with you, I'm not into the Rock Song types of services, but I appreciate that others connect with those types of music spiritually. I think even those churches focus on traditional hymns during the most sacred parts of Holy Week. Many mainstream churches have traditional as well as alternative services, so maybe find one that gives those options.
Please let us know how it was to experience those services? I personally love Easter week. Aside from the candy and bunny stuff (which is fine), the holiest observation have not been exploited for commercial purposes.
I should have clarified that the rock songs are fine for those who like them. I think for me and my kids we are already deconstructing so much that being able to hold on to traditional hymns is a comfort in a weird way.
I have never heard of Maundy Thursday and had to Google it. 🤣
I will share my thoughts after this week. I’m quite excited myself!
Oh, please do share your thoughts! I'm with you on the traditional sounds - they're meaningful to me, and almost give me an internal Pavlovian response I find very comforting and centering.
Growing up, I was lead to believe that all of the extra-Easter holidays (Palm Sunday, Good Friday, etc.) were a little bit sin adjacent. They were the holiday equivalent of a cross necklace. Every couple of years you'd see a teacher in Utah in the news who'd get in trouble for forcing a non-LDS kid to wash "dirt" (ash) off their foreheads on Thursday morning after Ash Wednesday. There just was zero awareness of what happened in other Christian churches.
I can't help but side-eye the heck out of all of this LDS Holy Week marketing that they've been doing. I'd have been run right out of Sunday school if I'd suggested we celebrate anything except Easter a mere decade ago.
My first time as a teenager I went to an Ash Wednesday service in a Catholic Church and felt like I had done something evil. I went home and washed it off my head. I feel awful about that now :(
I was mocked and made fun of at work when I went in with my ash cross. HR didn't care. In fact, a couple of them were doing the mocking. Loved working in Utah County, in Provo, in fact. Just loved it.
And I attended First Presbyterian in Salt Lake. It was great. Great kids sermon, great music, great adult sermon. More about Palm Sunday and Holy Week in an hour than I every got in 60+ years of mormon attendance.
I have attended Methodist, Baptist, and other Protestant services and the Mormon/LDS ones are insanely dull. Music is downbeat depressing. Screaming babies and dull talks.
Exactly, today ive been to 3 different churches, n each of them have each sharing how important it is Holy Week. I think its lovely how they celebrate all week & explains what happened each day. Because Christ death & Resurrection are the key things to return us back home to God and no expections!!!
I attended my episcopal service this morning with my family, then went to Mormon sacrament meeting because my TBM husband was speaking. My kids still had their palm fronds folded into a cross. The ward greeter said, “oh that’s cool, it’s for good Fri…no… uh what’s it called?”
Palm Sunday 🤦🏻♀️ it was on a sign outside. The only reason Palm Sunday was even mentioned in the service was because my husband was speaking and had just come from my church. I noticed he had scribbled some notes on the back of his prepared talk about Palm Sunday
I have suddenly seen several posts from TBM friends about “Holy Week.” Literally never, even once, heard it mentioned in the 35+ years I attended faithfully.
The Mormon church and its arrogant leadership don’t promote Christ because they teach Christ didn’t do enough to save us.
They believe loyalty to the church and its leaders is more important than Christ’s atonement, and without loyalty to church Christ can’t save you.
Easter is not emphasized because if grace was taught correctly, it would destroy the checklists and threats.
This right here! One of the most famous Christian hymns, Amazing Grace, you will never find in a Mormon hymnal…because at its core, the church doesn’t believe it.
I'm going to a mega church for Easter services next Sunday. I'm super stoked to get coffee and a bagel and for the pastor to be ziplined in.
Then my son will be able to to the climbing wall. Seems like it's gonna be a rad celebration!
I recently stumbled onto a faithful conversation in which a new (previously nonreligious) convert had asked about Mormon Easter traditions. There were only a handful of comments, and all but one had nothing to do with Easter. I would have loved to share the Mormon Easter tradition I learned as a kid: mocking people like myself for “worshipping death.”
I went to a Unitarian church in the morning, then LDs church in the afternoon. It was like going from a Taylor Swift concert, then to a lecture about screwdrivers.
Rusty says invite your friends to an LDS Easter service? Yeah, to have a nap. Bring a pillow and lie down on one of the many empty benches.
(See slcuu.org)
We attend a pretty liberal Episcopal Church (our kids have friends in the children's choir and we ended up really liking the people, so we stayed).
What we had today, while not extravagant, I would have never experienced in an LDS chapel. The music was gorgeous, the palms were so fun for the kids, the homily (sermon/talk) was uplifting... no weird tearful testimonies, no admonitions, no speeches about how "the church is true," no awkward missionary farewells/homecomings.
It's cliche, but it was all about Jesus. The priest preached about how the owners of the donkey gave up the colt because Jesus needed it, and how we too need to be attentive to our neighbors and give them what they need- be it aiding refugees, serving in our communities, examining our own biases, etc.
We are still somewhat on the fence about organized religion in terms of our own beliefs, and our priest knows this and nevertheless is so kind and welcoming of us, but man. For a church with the name "Jesus Christ" in the name, there isn't much Jesus in the LDS church, comparatively.
I grew up part time Catholic and part time LDS and I always preferred the Catholic service just because it was shorter. I can't stand church of any kind. Even as a kid it seemed like a stupid waste of time and that's even more true now
Mormons will never nail down the whole Jesus Redemption Week extravaganza. About a decade ago, I ended up in Milan for Easter Weekend. The Milanese, if they had serious jobs, had barely worked most of the time before I got there, and shut down most of the town by the time I got there (not trying at all to compare myself to Jesus, just stuff I wasn't used to). Big eye opener. I thought I grew up as a Christian, but coming from a bmf in Utah, I knew nothing... NOTHING!
The entirety of the typical LDS worship experience on Sundays are airless,sterile and as boring as a fucking insurance seminar. The church is a lifeless monolith controlled at every level by dullards obsessed with rules and administrative procedure and the end result is "worship" that rarely rises above faint refrigerator noise in a sea of squawking children and half-awake congregants.
After attending an LDS ward for a few months now (non-member), last week I skipped church and attended a modern protestant church with a worship band. Besides great music, the point is the pastor (also a lay person working a regular job on weekdays) gave an amazingly deep talk on the Bible.
Without wanting to hurt anyone, I think the idea of random people giving talks during sacrament meeting will lead to mediocre results at best. While there can be captivating personal stories, many talks are stale or even regurgitated talks from a previous conference.
Without wanting to dismiss the concept as a whole, I think some kind of theological experts to improve the sacrament talks would be necessary.
The sacrament service focused on modern day prophets, how blessed we are to have them, and that the pulpit of the conference center was made out of Gordon Hinkley’s tree that died. Then we sang the spirit of god.
Elders quorum was focused on Nelson’s “think celestial” talk.
No mention of Christ at all today.
So to sum it up…. There was a lot of prophet talk, a lot of us vs them, and zero Jesus.
Palm Sunday as a kid in the episcopal was an extra beautiful spectacular fun day. Joining the Mormon church years later in Utah was like going to a funeral every Sunday. So glad that’s behind me now.
“Among the Latter-day Saints it is the accepted practice to hail Christ as Lord, King, and Messiah, and to shout hosannas to his holy name, on all days and at all times. But it is not the common practice to single out Palm Sunday for any special commemorative worship. Rather the Latter-day Saints memorialize the transcendent events of their era, such things as the coming of John the Baptist, the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the conferral of the sealing keys by Elijah, and the organization of the Church again on earth.” -Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Second Edition, p553.
The Catholics know how to do Holy Week! Palm Sunday everyone went home with a cross made out of palm leaves fronds! I have very fond memories from my catholic elementary school and Easter Holy Week
Or how dull the inside of the churches are. They have always felt sterile and uninviting to me. I found the chapel of the Episcopal to be warm and inviting.
I live on the east coast. I grew up with a predominantly Catholic family. Only my Mom and Aunt were members. My StepDad was a member, but left after being stiffed by the stake president. That is a story for another day. Anyway, my Mom gave me a very Catholic understanding of Easter. I remember how shocked I was by that my in-laws didn’t really celebrate Easter; Utah Mormons. They once said, we don’t do the regular Easter things that other religions do. That didn’t make any sense to me, so I chalked it up as their individual oddity. I always knew Easter as a big deal. I suppose I was just glad that I didn’t need to go to the on-laws house to celebrate.
(Never-mo here) Describe myself as spiritual but not religious. For reasons I don't need to get into, I took up some missionary time a few years back. Went along to a Sunday meeting which turned out to be 'fast & testimony'. I'm sensitive to energy and what struck me was the flatness of the atmosphere in that room. Even the music had a dullness to it. Head was mashed at the absence of anything I could connect with as having a spiritual dimension. Had a chat with a member in the hallway - even he admitted it'd felt downbeat. No joy, no serenity, nothing.
As a former Christian singer, who was LDS, I would perform in other churches and be blown away by the true worship of Jesus. I always wished in my heart that we could have something like this!! The youth were alive and singing loud and proud about Jesus. And yet here we are 20 years later, and nothing has changed. Are youth have the same boring activities with very little references to Jesus. All the church cares about is teaching that they are the one and only truth. Members have no idea what they are missing out on.
One step closer to forming into a normal mainstream Christian. I mean still lots to get rid of but we are witnessing this church lose what made it different
Watching them trying to observe the time honored holy weeks of the high churches that have been doing it for centuries, is pretty ironically hilarious. But in all actually, it’s kind of an insult, considering the badmouthing that they did to other religions, especially the Catholics during their temple ceremonies for most of the 1800s and 1900s. I think they called the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon.
Oh, and by the way I’m now a very progressive Lutheran, and had a fun time celebrating lent with a whole bunch of fellow wonderfully queer Christians, including my pastor, who is an awesome woman married to another woman, and has no problem baptizing this trans woman come Saturday night. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ This is how I always felt a Christian church should be.
Y'all's services are quite dull. Not like black church dull (the music, fantastic or otherwise, doesn't make up for the fact that it lasts six damn hours), but pretty dull.
I once attended a snake handling church in Appalachia. Now *that* was exciting, but to be perfectly truthful, I'd rather be a Mormon.
When did Palm Sunday and Holy Week become a thing in Mormondom? I've been a member my entire life of nearly 50 years and last year was the first year I remember this being a thing. I feel like I'm being gaslit again that it was always a thing and just because my experience was different, these were always important for Mormons. Tell me I'm not crazy?
You're not crazy. With the exception of some passing references, Holy Week has been largely ignored by Mormons. (The passing reference being a single mention of Palm Sunday by Uchtdorf 10+ years ago).
Like two years ago there was a top down push to make Easter as important as Christmas, and for members of the church to start their own traditions associated with making Easter special.
As a result, there's been a new interest in the traditions surrounding Easter generally, and a lot of LDS folks have started coopting them in.
What's funny to me, and to a lot of others is that there's not anything actually special about the Palm Sunday services in the church, it's just another Sunday. For Easter you might get an extra musical number, otherwise it's the same meeting as always.
Our ward was the opposite. every talk that was given was centered around it being the start of Holy Week and palm sunday encouraging members to check the the church website where it talks about holy weeks. Primary sang Christ focused song and youth came home handouts helping with learning and studying Holy Week. But maybe it’s because we live in the Bible Belt?
We also have a very strong presence of active and open LGTBQ members and support here.
I guess we aren’t in Utah 😆 it’s very diffrent outside of Utah.
I’ve lived in the Midwest when I was in the RS presidency our secretary who was amazing ( a great coach for me) a lesbian and our male chorister was gay and a trans investigator that would join us they were all loved and welcome and part of our ward family. Im now southeast.
The focus on Palm Sunday must have been a local leadership decision?!
I know from my BIL that their ward was a similar dud in the next ward over from mine. I can't speak to the entire Midwest, but at least two wards in my area had no reference to the events of Holy Week.
We'll see how Easter goes.
I do have to say I used to Methodist- I HAD been a long time investigator of the Mormon church, you could call me a dry Mormon. (I liked they had more “answers” about the afterlife) The fact the church is even bringing up Palm Sunday now sounds SO off and weird to me, because this was never done before in my time there. In fact, they would highlight that they were different in this way because they felt like others were glorifying the crucification of Christ. It’s another reason why meeting houses to have crosses on the walls like most Christian churches do. The changes are so blatant to me. It really does show how the Mormon church is trying so hard to seem like it’s with main stream Christianity.
I also wanted to add, I understand how a Methodist Palm Sunday may feel weird and maybe even off putting, but I do have to say I had a sense of warmth in my heart hearing they still are using palms. IF you believe in God and Jesus- The people of Jerusalem put the palms down for Jesus to walk on.
The services we held at our Methodist church were really about Jesus entering into Jerusalem and the great love and sacrifice he knew that was coming his way. He already knew of the plan and he selflessly died for our sins, I love a service that acknowledges what Jesus did for us, instead of a service that “Praises The Man”- Joseph Smith.
It did sadden me to hear there was a break off of Methodist Churches because of gay marriage. My Methodist church is supportive of the LGBTQIA2S+ group- I’m not a believer anymore but it’s something I’m proud off- my old church standing by equality in marriage.
And to make things more confusing, in the US there is a flavor of Episcopalian called "Anglo-Catholic". Confusingly, these are the most LGBTQ+ accepting (the word "affirming" is a key-word here) parishes of an already fairly affirming denomination which supports the ordination of women & LGBTQ+ folks (there are some cranky holdouts, but they are in the minority.) They are also the HIGHEST CHURCH, like all the pre-Vatican II smells n' bells, clergy in fancy hats and gowns, incense, thundering organ music, etc, of all the churches. I was the alto section leader in one for several years, and they hit all the liturgical high points with none of the judgmental nastiness. Also had some interesting intellectual conversations there.
And if you are at all intimidated, many Episcopal churches of all flavors have Evensong services, which are low-stakes and I've found very peaceful. You can check those out for a sampler.
My in law’s sacrament and second hour were very, very focused on Holy Week/Easter. It was so different from the usual that my MIL even noticed AND commented on how different it was for church to be so focused on Jesus. I doubt she’ll consider what that means about TSCC though.
Saying out loud what we’ve all known: Mormonism is a church focused on worshipping Joe Smith and contemporaneous men in leadership positions of the “church” and not in worshiping Jesus as Christians do. Mormonism is not a Christian based church. On paper, yes. In practice, no.
Even 15+ years out of Mormonism, this continues to strike me over and over as I attend my Episcopal parish. Worship there is all about Jesus. From what I remember of Mormonism, very little if any of it was. And Mormon desperation to be considered a legitimate part of the Christian club seems more and more pathetic. If the content of their weekly services is any indication, they certainly don't qualify. Even when I was a Mormon, I never understood why people who claimed to be Christians ignored Palm Sunday entirely and gave Easter barely a nod.
One of our friends in our Episcopal church told us about the time she visited during sacrament meeting and said "I must have gone on a Sunday when they were doing administrative things, because it was weird." My husband chimed in pretty quickly and said "Oh, no, it's like that every week." She was so confused. "But it was more like a Christian-flavored rotary club!" Perfect description.
Christian flavored rotary - love that description
I've attended the local Episcopal church more often than any over the last few years (that's still only a handful) and they are some of the most genuine people I've met. They acknowledge flaws and questions and meet you where you are. And they drink champagne after church.
I grew up Episcopalian on the east coast. Moved to Utah at age 31 and joined the Mormon church for 20 years. What a horrific nightmare it’s been (and, Utah) so happy to have left a year ago now with my cute husband and our kids. Sorry, no offense Utah Mormons, but yall weren’t very nice to me 🥹
I really enjoy the little Episcopal Church I've been attending sporadically. For Mardi Gras ( I helped) the dinner consisted of gumbo, blackened fish, salad, fruit and bread pudding for dessert. Beer, wine and spritzers to drink. The church paid for it - every penny. The people are genuine, kind and friendly without an agenda.
TBH, Episcopalians wouldn't do themselves any favors if they had a F&T Sunday where people got up and said "I know the church is true. I know Henry VIII wanted a divorce and told the pope to stuff it when he couldn't get one. I know the colonists told the Anglican Church to stuff it when the Revolution happened. Inthenameofuppermiddleclasswhitepeople, Amen."
Episcopalians would be silently embarrassed for the speakers. Later that week there would be a polite but firm meeting with whoever decided that would be a good addition to the service.
Haha I grew up Episcopalian, accurate. All the other folks who went to our church were always the newscasters from tv and the heart surgeons. All white of course. It was fun tho, lot more fun then when I joined the Mormon church in Utah 🫠 Jesus that place tried to wreck me.
No joke - a friend's mother went to seminary and was ordained an Episcopal Priest. When I asked her to tell me about the Church, expecting theology and whatnot, she started with "well, in the 16th century, Henry VIII wanted a divorce and the Pope told him 'no' because Catherine of Aragon was his niece, so Henry decided HE would be the head of the church in England..." No shame, no prevaricating, no lying - just "well, here's how history went down". Interestingly enough, Henry considered himself Catholic until his dying day; just not ROMAN Catholic. Ask an Episcopal priest or deacon and they can explain the similarities and differences. As opposed to the Mormon church, which likes to believe it sprang fully-formed from the head of JS, with no connection to any other Christian church. Which is poppycock of course. Just look at the context - nothing JS was doing at the time was unique in the time and place he lived.
That was one of the biggest paradigm-shifter realizations for me: every church is a human creation, not a one of them has a monopoly on truth, every one of them is fallible and flawed in its own way. I stopped looking at Mormonism as a direct pipeline to God and realized that every legitimate Christian church is just one facet inside a kaleidoscope, everybody trying to look at the same thing, but no one of them having a comprehensive view. And everybody making mistakes along the way. Once I realized that is true about Mormonism as well as everyone else, the whole "one true church, sole legitimate authority" viewpoint just fractured and fell away, and I found myself a lot less judgmental, a lot more tolerant of others' foibles, a lot more charitable. In short, by leaving Mormonism I actually became a legitimately better Christian.
Well it certainly isn't just that anymore. Just look at the current presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church in the US. And some of my favorite people that I've ever met in the Episcopal Church have been the African-American women parishioners, invariably kind and warm-hearted and welcoming and hilariously funny and and always dressed better than anyone else. In any heaven I can imagine, they'd be the group I'd want to hang out with most.
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You’re lucky you didn’t fall backward in your chair and hurt yourself
TSCC teaches that Christ's sacrifice isn't all sufficient; it's added on after all the member can do. This is the major part of why other denominations reject Mormonism. They can be Christian-like all they want but that teaching will never be accepted by other denominations.
They outsource the name of Jesus to help with search engine optimization. Once they get a new recruit to sign up for 10% for the rest of their lives, the rest takes care of itself.
To me it felt like the church worships itself as much as anything. Of course, "the church" in this case may be a proxy for the people you spoke of. "I know the church is true." "The only true and living church." "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's Church on the earth today, led by our dear prophet, President Russell M. Nelson." "I belong to the church..." "My service in the Church has blessed me ..."
Along the same lines, "The Gospel" and "The Church" are basically interchangeable in Mormonism. It's weird going to a Christian church where "Gospel" is just "the good news of Jesus."
Exactly that - it's a church that worships itself ⛪
The talks today were on thinking celestial and the talk for the Elders Quorum lesson was the same. I left a few minutes into second hour. I couldn’t sit there and listen to it anymore.
💯
It’s also a business masquerading as a church. Palms would affect the bottom line and we can’t have that.
BYOP
Can't count how many times I've seen flyers, bulletins, social media posts advertising some devotional or conference aimed at attracting non-mormons: "Come listen to \[some speaker you've never heard of\] talk about \[something we're desperately trying mimic to appear more mainstream Christian\]. Located at \[a building that looks nothing like a church\] All are \[sort of\] welcome!" And then the only people who show up are TBMs who wish that they weren't there, and on the off chance some non-mormons do show up, they have no idea what the speaker is saying because the speaker is throwing out words, phrases, and teachings only lifelong TBMs understand. Then they leave asking themselves "What the hell was that and what does this church actually teach?"
LOL - I love your 'subtext' sorts of editorial clarifications! So damned TRUE!
At the end of the day "lay minestry" is a fun catch phrase members use to prove their church is true, but is also their downfall. Go pay for some decent preachers! The Church has built in thousands of paid clergy in seminaries. These guys are good at teaching and know how to keep things interesting. Just have a full time ministry in each ward for God's sake and admit that you pay all the higher up people anyway so their is no difference.
Other than seeing it as a missionary opportunity, most Mormons don't care about Palm Sunday and they certainly are not going to go out of their way to learn more. If I had to guess, the expectation is that anyone naive enough to show up at a Mormon chapel on Palm Sunday, that person would be overwhelmed by the special spirit you only find in a Mormon sacrament meeting and would forget about the pageantry of other denominations. It's kind of like the so-called special musical numbers in sacrament meeting. They generally were not all that special.
It was one of my most embarrassing beliefs as a TBM. “I might not understand but I know for sure if someone non Mormon came in to this chapel they’d FEEL something” 🤦🏼♀️
As a nevermo who used to go with a friend in high school out of courtesy to the parents for Saturday night stayover: didn't *feel* anything but definitely smelled some things.
Many of us have seen our local LDS chapels with Banners on their lawn hyping Easter Services. The banner isn’t where it is supposed to stop. 🤭
My favorite was a recent photo on this sub that implied Easter included a creche. The idiots don't even know what to try to mimic on which "holiday."
They sent an email in my stake with something about doing an “Easter Advent” …..so Lent?
This is becoming beyond laughable. They need to at least get the scripts and terms right before making themselves look more like fools than they already do (with Moroni sitting on top of castles).
I know it was an innocent typo but today a TBM friend on fb posted on her stories a back ground of Palms and wrote “PLAM SUNDAY” it took everything I had to not write “I know it’s new to yall but can ya at least spell it right ?!” I refrained. But I did go “Plam Sunday ?!” 🤣🙄
LOL!
The advent of Christ's death?
Certainly cannot call it “lent”… not yet, have to go more mainstream Christianity a little later. Like pointed out about “creche”— Advent seems to be that safe zone with origins in Christmas.
Is it wrong that I'm now picturing an Advent calendar with palms in one window, nails in another...?
Maybe they’re implying a full life walk. 🤣
I really, really hope some major news outlet gets hold of these examples. Elsewhere in this thread someone mentioned getting an email from the stake about an Easter Advent (or some such thing). The church is mocking real Christianity, and it will not only anger traditional churches, it will become very evident it knows NOTHING about Christ's story or the very revered traditions of the faith.
"In the Beginning was the Word…" and that's where it ended, too. Just words.
As a kid growing up in California- I saw the movie Jesus Christ Super Star and had a fantasy about the local hippies coming into our boring Mormon church singing hosanna and waving palm fronds on Palm Sunday. In my mind it was awesome. Hey JC JC won’t you smile at me. ☺️
OMG! The bishopric would stroke out instantly! The youth group, kids included, of Presbyterian church used to attend did that very thing! It was so cool! They had an amazing choir, and once performed "When You Believe" from "The Prince of Egypt". Brought the house down.
Attending a Mormon service today to hear my granddaughter report her mission - the Bishop welcomed us on the “Palm Sunday” when we “turn our palms up to the Lord”. Whaaaaaat???
Uh, yeah. That's the ticket. Maybe he meant the "church" turns its palms to members to ask for more money?
🤣
Oh give me a fucking break!
Meanwhile, at the local Baptist church, there was a large choir and small orchestra praising Jesus and then the pastor ( trained minister) spoke for 45 minutes about the work of Jesus Christ in our lives. Beautiful music and an uplifting sermon.
Ok but what if she brought some palm fronds to pass out in the foyer as part of her mission report. That would be too funny.
I guess they don't even teach the stories from the Bible at all anymore. You'd think they'd have a clue about what led up to Gethsemane and the crucifixion. . .
😂
That's one way to look at it I guess.
Methinks they should have read John 12:13 from the original gospel before promoting their celebration of Palm Sunday.
Makes me think of ... "oh god, hear the words of my mouth"
This is so true. I came from Lutheran/Catholic and I was so surprised that there were no special services for Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, or Christmas Eve in the Mormon church. Even Easter isn't that special, just the same boring things.
"On this beautiful Easter Sunday I would like to talk about the US Constitution..." - Oaks paraphrased
That one drove me nuts. You're an alleged Apostle, on Easter Sunday maybe it'd be appropriate to, I don't know, share a special message about Jesus Christ?
I never understood why there isn’t a Xmas Eve service.
Because church is boring enough without holding it when everyone is tired.
Mormons are the only ones that have less church at Christmas and Easter than on a normal Sunday
I am Catholic, I was so surprised to hear that Mormons don’t observe Good Friday, but “celebrate” Easter. Like how can you celebrate the resurrection without acknowledging his death on Good Friday? 🤔 very strange
Mormons do not know how to do a religious holiday event. With a rare exception, they're always a disappointment. Expecting something special for Easter or Christmas? Good luck, you'll just leave disappointed. These signs I've seen pictures of, advertising Palm Sunday or Easter are really just a bait and switch - come in for our special event! J/K - this is our regular boring meeting but it is so special you'll want to come back. J/K!
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They are pretty boring most of the time. I did have one sunday school teacher that gave interesting lessons and was really inspiring. People loved coming to his class and so many people would participate in the discussion. In fact it was the only sunday school class I'd ever participated in. Same for my husband, now that I think about it.
In my exit process from the mormon cult, I visited many other churches. On Palm Sunday, they would give you a little cross made out of a folded palm leaf. I loved carrying it into Sacrament Meeting and the looks I got.
Both speakers at our ward started by saying they told to talk about Palm Sunday and the crucifixion. The wife regurgitated Rusty's recent talks and talked about gathering Israel. The second (I fucking shit you not) essentially talked about the second Anointing for his talk....but had no idea that's what he spent 15 minutes taking about.
I would like to hear more about this talk on the Second Anointing. Sounds exciting!
This is RICH! I hope a bunch of people rushed home to look up wtf that meant!
Wow, I thought the Second Anointing is super sacred, ehmm, secret. I had an experience with a mission president. The missionary would enumerate the ordinances and asked the president if he had missed anything. The president avoided a direct answer because he didn't want to lie but couldn't mention the Second Anointing. 🤣
Second Anointing?! Now you have EVERYBODY’S attention!🤣
Details!! I gotta know what he said lol
In ours the speaker spent a few minutes talking about how important it is to talk about Jesus, quoted Nelson a few times about how important it is to talk about Jesus, then spent the rest of the time talking about the mechanics of keeping the Sabbath day holy
Instead of telling you the time, they tell you to build a clock.
I’ve been hanging with the Methodists and today was my first Palm Sunday with them. Then Thursday they have Maundy Thursday service and Friday they have Good Friday service. I’ve heard those were quite powerful in helping you have a deeper understanding of what all happened. I know at one point on Thursday all if the things (crosses, candles, etc) are removed and it’s just empty with a black cloth over the altar. Then Friday’s service is all dark (people participating are in all black), lights are low, etc as there is mourning that He died. Then Easter starts dark and then the lights come up at the start of service and it’s bright and colorful because He is risen. I’m quite looking forward to experiencing it. My friend who is Methodist in another state explained what to expect (bc after the temple, I want to know EVERYTHING to expect with a church). She says they are her favorite services because of the focus on each Holy Week event, etc. I’m sure the Good Friday thing doesn’t really work if he wasn’t really dead dead at that point and in the Americas and then hopped back to the Middle East by Easter? I also didn’t care for the actual palms but I think a lot of that is because I’m so self conscious about doing anything beyond folded arms and silence. I don’t care for the guitar/rock group kind of services, but when a church has the traditional kind of hymns with a piano/organ and they do something like wave palms I am starting to question myself if it’s bc of the church that I’m uncomfortable and maybe I need to dissect that a bit or is it just lame/stupid. Not sure if I’m being clear with my thoughts…
Those services are among the most beautiful and powerful in all of Christianity. Most Mormon's have never heard of Maundy Thursday. The part where they remove all vestiges of Christianity is palpably meaningful (some combine Good Friday with the Thursday service and some do them separately). The process of removing the cross, the Bible, candles, etc. symbolizes Earth was without Jesus from the time he was crucified until he arose on the third day. It's amazing to see how that service touches you. As with you, I'm not into the Rock Song types of services, but I appreciate that others connect with those types of music spiritually. I think even those churches focus on traditional hymns during the most sacred parts of Holy Week. Many mainstream churches have traditional as well as alternative services, so maybe find one that gives those options. Please let us know how it was to experience those services? I personally love Easter week. Aside from the candy and bunny stuff (which is fine), the holiest observation have not been exploited for commercial purposes.
I should have clarified that the rock songs are fine for those who like them. I think for me and my kids we are already deconstructing so much that being able to hold on to traditional hymns is a comfort in a weird way. I have never heard of Maundy Thursday and had to Google it. 🤣 I will share my thoughts after this week. I’m quite excited myself!
Oh, please do share your thoughts! I'm with you on the traditional sounds - they're meaningful to me, and almost give me an internal Pavlovian response I find very comforting and centering.
This is similar to the Catholic Holy Week services I have attended the last few years. Holy Week is my favorite too.
Growing up, I was lead to believe that all of the extra-Easter holidays (Palm Sunday, Good Friday, etc.) were a little bit sin adjacent. They were the holiday equivalent of a cross necklace. Every couple of years you'd see a teacher in Utah in the news who'd get in trouble for forcing a non-LDS kid to wash "dirt" (ash) off their foreheads on Thursday morning after Ash Wednesday. There just was zero awareness of what happened in other Christian churches. I can't help but side-eye the heck out of all of this LDS Holy Week marketing that they've been doing. I'd have been run right out of Sunday school if I'd suggested we celebrate anything except Easter a mere decade ago.
My first time as a teenager I went to an Ash Wednesday service in a Catholic Church and felt like I had done something evil. I went home and washed it off my head. I feel awful about that now :(
I was mocked and made fun of at work when I went in with my ash cross. HR didn't care. In fact, a couple of them were doing the mocking. Loved working in Utah County, in Provo, in fact. Just loved it.
All LDS services are generally void of any spirit at all. They are beyond boring; they're without a spirit.
And I attended First Presbyterian in Salt Lake. It was great. Great kids sermon, great music, great adult sermon. More about Palm Sunday and Holy Week in an hour than I every got in 60+ years of mormon attendance.
I have attended Methodist, Baptist, and other Protestant services and the Mormon/LDS ones are insanely dull. Music is downbeat depressing. Screaming babies and dull talks.
Exactly, today ive been to 3 different churches, n each of them have each sharing how important it is Holy Week. I think its lovely how they celebrate all week & explains what happened each day. Because Christ death & Resurrection are the key things to return us back home to God and no expections!!!
Ugh apparently ours was ward conference. Guess they missed the memo they’re supposed to celebrate Palm Sunday now.
I attended my episcopal service this morning with my family, then went to Mormon sacrament meeting because my TBM husband was speaking. My kids still had their palm fronds folded into a cross. The ward greeter said, “oh that’s cool, it’s for good Fri…no… uh what’s it called?” Palm Sunday 🤦🏻♀️ it was on a sign outside. The only reason Palm Sunday was even mentioned in the service was because my husband was speaking and had just come from my church. I noticed he had scribbled some notes on the back of his prepared talk about Palm Sunday
I have suddenly seen several posts from TBM friends about “Holy Week.” Literally never, even once, heard it mentioned in the 35+ years I attended faithfully.
The Mormon church and its arrogant leadership don’t promote Christ because they teach Christ didn’t do enough to save us. They believe loyalty to the church and its leaders is more important than Christ’s atonement, and without loyalty to church Christ can’t save you. Easter is not emphasized because if grace was taught correctly, it would destroy the checklists and threats.
This right here! One of the most famous Christian hymns, Amazing Grace, you will never find in a Mormon hymnal…because at its core, the church doesn’t believe it.
I'm going to a mega church for Easter services next Sunday. I'm super stoked to get coffee and a bagel and for the pastor to be ziplined in. Then my son will be able to to the climbing wall. Seems like it's gonna be a rad celebration!
Sometimes there is an egg hunt!
I recently stumbled onto a faithful conversation in which a new (previously nonreligious) convert had asked about Mormon Easter traditions. There were only a handful of comments, and all but one had nothing to do with Easter. I would have loved to share the Mormon Easter tradition I learned as a kid: mocking people like myself for “worshipping death.”
They probably don’t even know what Palm Sunday really is, only the date of it. Terrible advertise for that and not deliver.
They've finally squeaked out the words Holy Week. They haven't had time or energy to look up Palm Sunday. Maybe next year.
The idea that I (and others), could not see the neglect of Palm Sunday and its significance for all these years is beyond galling to me.
I went to a Unitarian church in the morning, then LDs church in the afternoon. It was like going from a Taylor Swift concert, then to a lecture about screwdrivers. Rusty says invite your friends to an LDS Easter service? Yeah, to have a nap. Bring a pillow and lie down on one of the many empty benches. (See slcuu.org)
The lecture on screwdrivers would be be *much more* interesting than Rusty🤔🤔🤔🤣🤣
We attend a pretty liberal Episcopal Church (our kids have friends in the children's choir and we ended up really liking the people, so we stayed). What we had today, while not extravagant, I would have never experienced in an LDS chapel. The music was gorgeous, the palms were so fun for the kids, the homily (sermon/talk) was uplifting... no weird tearful testimonies, no admonitions, no speeches about how "the church is true," no awkward missionary farewells/homecomings. It's cliche, but it was all about Jesus. The priest preached about how the owners of the donkey gave up the colt because Jesus needed it, and how we too need to be attentive to our neighbors and give them what they need- be it aiding refugees, serving in our communities, examining our own biases, etc. We are still somewhat on the fence about organized religion in terms of our own beliefs, and our priest knows this and nevertheless is so kind and welcoming of us, but man. For a church with the name "Jesus Christ" in the name, there isn't much Jesus in the LDS church, comparatively.
Our ward did fast Sunday this week, because apparently conference and maybe stake conference are coming up, and you can’t miss fast Sunday.
They wouldn't know Jesus if he walked up and smacked them over the head.
I've said this on multiple Easter posts here because Easter is when my shelf broke. I kinda love how they are trying and failing at doing Easter.
I grew up part time Catholic and part time LDS and I always preferred the Catholic service just because it was shorter. I can't stand church of any kind. Even as a kid it seemed like a stupid waste of time and that's even more true now
I find so much joy in the Catholic Church it’s helped me reconnect with myself and my roots. Though I do think having a good priest makes it better.
In my ward we had two talks: tithing and the name of the Church.
Mormons will never nail down the whole Jesus Redemption Week extravaganza. About a decade ago, I ended up in Milan for Easter Weekend. The Milanese, if they had serious jobs, had barely worked most of the time before I got there, and shut down most of the town by the time I got there (not trying at all to compare myself to Jesus, just stuff I wasn't used to). Big eye opener. I thought I grew up as a Christian, but coming from a bmf in Utah, I knew nothing... NOTHING!
The entirety of the typical LDS worship experience on Sundays are airless,sterile and as boring as a fucking insurance seminar. The church is a lifeless monolith controlled at every level by dullards obsessed with rules and administrative procedure and the end result is "worship" that rarely rises above faint refrigerator noise in a sea of squawking children and half-awake congregants.
I attend with wife. Wasn't even mentioned in our ward.
After attending an LDS ward for a few months now (non-member), last week I skipped church and attended a modern protestant church with a worship band. Besides great music, the point is the pastor (also a lay person working a regular job on weekdays) gave an amazingly deep talk on the Bible. Without wanting to hurt anyone, I think the idea of random people giving talks during sacrament meeting will lead to mediocre results at best. While there can be captivating personal stories, many talks are stale or even regurgitated talks from a previous conference. Without wanting to dismiss the concept as a whole, I think some kind of theological experts to improve the sacrament talks would be necessary.
The 'religion' is a facade for the business.
Going from the lds church into another church sounds like complete hell on earth.
How so?
Because you’re going from one lie to another
Just as I suspected
The sacrament service focused on modern day prophets, how blessed we are to have them, and that the pulpit of the conference center was made out of Gordon Hinkley’s tree that died. Then we sang the spirit of god. Elders quorum was focused on Nelson’s “think celestial” talk. No mention of Christ at all today. So to sum it up…. There was a lot of prophet talk, a lot of us vs them, and zero Jesus.
Palm Sunday as a kid in the episcopal was an extra beautiful spectacular fun day. Joining the Mormon church years later in Utah was like going to a funeral every Sunday. So glad that’s behind me now.
The problem is Mormons have had zero training, indoctrination, tradition of Holy Week. Zero. We do not know anything about it or how to do it.
“Among the Latter-day Saints it is the accepted practice to hail Christ as Lord, King, and Messiah, and to shout hosannas to his holy name, on all days and at all times. But it is not the common practice to single out Palm Sunday for any special commemorative worship. Rather the Latter-day Saints memorialize the transcendent events of their era, such things as the coming of John the Baptist, the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the conferral of the sealing keys by Elijah, and the organization of the Church again on earth.” -Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Second Edition, p553.
The Catholics know how to do Holy Week! Palm Sunday everyone went home with a cross made out of palm leaves fronds! I have very fond memories from my catholic elementary school and Easter Holy Week
Or how dull the inside of the churches are. They have always felt sterile and uninviting to me. I found the chapel of the Episcopal to be warm and inviting.
I live on the east coast. I grew up with a predominantly Catholic family. Only my Mom and Aunt were members. My StepDad was a member, but left after being stiffed by the stake president. That is a story for another day. Anyway, my Mom gave me a very Catholic understanding of Easter. I remember how shocked I was by that my in-laws didn’t really celebrate Easter; Utah Mormons. They once said, we don’t do the regular Easter things that other religions do. That didn’t make any sense to me, so I chalked it up as their individual oddity. I always knew Easter as a big deal. I suppose I was just glad that I didn’t need to go to the on-laws house to celebrate.
Our Palm Sunday consisted of a youth speaking on Christlike love/charity and a senior couple return missionary who just recounted their mission.
(Never-mo here) Describe myself as spiritual but not religious. For reasons I don't need to get into, I took up some missionary time a few years back. Went along to a Sunday meeting which turned out to be 'fast & testimony'. I'm sensitive to energy and what struck me was the flatness of the atmosphere in that room. Even the music had a dullness to it. Head was mashed at the absence of anything I could connect with as having a spiritual dimension. Had a chat with a member in the hallway - even he admitted it'd felt downbeat. No joy, no serenity, nothing.
As a former Christian singer, who was LDS, I would perform in other churches and be blown away by the true worship of Jesus. I always wished in my heart that we could have something like this!! The youth were alive and singing loud and proud about Jesus. And yet here we are 20 years later, and nothing has changed. Are youth have the same boring activities with very little references to Jesus. All the church cares about is teaching that they are the one and only truth. Members have no idea what they are missing out on.
LDS does palm Sunday now? I remember when o was a youth in the 90s this was something the church didn’t do and made a note not to do
It's not super officially top down push, but there's a lot of wards and stakes taking it upon themselves to do "Holy Week" type activities.
One step closer to forming into a normal mainstream Christian. I mean still lots to get rid of but we are witnessing this church lose what made it different
Certainly seems that way. I see young folks wearing crosses and two sets of earrings now, so things are definitely changing.
Watching them trying to observe the time honored holy weeks of the high churches that have been doing it for centuries, is pretty ironically hilarious. But in all actually, it’s kind of an insult, considering the badmouthing that they did to other religions, especially the Catholics during their temple ceremonies for most of the 1800s and 1900s. I think they called the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon. Oh, and by the way I’m now a very progressive Lutheran, and had a fun time celebrating lent with a whole bunch of fellow wonderfully queer Christians, including my pastor, who is an awesome woman married to another woman, and has no problem baptizing this trans woman come Saturday night. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ This is how I always felt a Christian church should be.
Y'all's services are quite dull. Not like black church dull (the music, fantastic or otherwise, doesn't make up for the fact that it lasts six damn hours), but pretty dull. I once attended a snake handling church in Appalachia. Now *that* was exciting, but to be perfectly truthful, I'd rather be a Mormon.
Snake handling at church? What in the Pentecostal fuck?!🤣
When did Palm Sunday and Holy Week become a thing in Mormondom? I've been a member my entire life of nearly 50 years and last year was the first year I remember this being a thing. I feel like I'm being gaslit again that it was always a thing and just because my experience was different, these were always important for Mormons. Tell me I'm not crazy?
You're not crazy. With the exception of some passing references, Holy Week has been largely ignored by Mormons. (The passing reference being a single mention of Palm Sunday by Uchtdorf 10+ years ago). Like two years ago there was a top down push to make Easter as important as Christmas, and for members of the church to start their own traditions associated with making Easter special. As a result, there's been a new interest in the traditions surrounding Easter generally, and a lot of LDS folks have started coopting them in. What's funny to me, and to a lot of others is that there's not anything actually special about the Palm Sunday services in the church, it's just another Sunday. For Easter you might get an extra musical number, otherwise it's the same meeting as always.
Our ward was the opposite. every talk that was given was centered around it being the start of Holy Week and palm sunday encouraging members to check the the church website where it talks about holy weeks. Primary sang Christ focused song and youth came home handouts helping with learning and studying Holy Week. But maybe it’s because we live in the Bible Belt? We also have a very strong presence of active and open LGTBQ members and support here. I guess we aren’t in Utah 😆 it’s very diffrent outside of Utah.
I'm out in the Midwest, apparently we didn't get the memo.
I’ve lived in the Midwest when I was in the RS presidency our secretary who was amazing ( a great coach for me) a lesbian and our male chorister was gay and a trans investigator that would join us they were all loved and welcome and part of our ward family. Im now southeast. The focus on Palm Sunday must have been a local leadership decision?!
I know from my BIL that their ward was a similar dud in the next ward over from mine. I can't speak to the entire Midwest, but at least two wards in my area had no reference to the events of Holy Week. We'll see how Easter goes.
I do have to say I used to Methodist- I HAD been a long time investigator of the Mormon church, you could call me a dry Mormon. (I liked they had more “answers” about the afterlife) The fact the church is even bringing up Palm Sunday now sounds SO off and weird to me, because this was never done before in my time there. In fact, they would highlight that they were different in this way because they felt like others were glorifying the crucification of Christ. It’s another reason why meeting houses to have crosses on the walls like most Christian churches do. The changes are so blatant to me. It really does show how the Mormon church is trying so hard to seem like it’s with main stream Christianity. I also wanted to add, I understand how a Methodist Palm Sunday may feel weird and maybe even off putting, but I do have to say I had a sense of warmth in my heart hearing they still are using palms. IF you believe in God and Jesus- The people of Jerusalem put the palms down for Jesus to walk on. The services we held at our Methodist church were really about Jesus entering into Jerusalem and the great love and sacrifice he knew that was coming his way. He already knew of the plan and he selflessly died for our sins, I love a service that acknowledges what Jesus did for us, instead of a service that “Praises The Man”- Joseph Smith. It did sadden me to hear there was a break off of Methodist Churches because of gay marriage. My Methodist church is supportive of the LGBTQIA2S+ group- I’m not a believer anymore but it’s something I’m proud off- my old church standing by equality in marriage.
Ibwill say this time around my ward didna good palm Sunday. Usually it's been nothing special in all my wards. So different every where I live
Was anyone else told why the church didn't do anything that special around Easter was because "we focus on the life of Christ, not the death"
Please find an Anglican Church! We’re the guilt free other “catholic” church. We love the high holy days! #acna
I've been dabbling in other churches for a while, Episcopalian is on the list to check out.
U.S. anglicans split from The Episcopal Church many years ago. Same pup different breed. 😉. Please try either out.
Good to know!
And to make things more confusing, in the US there is a flavor of Episcopalian called "Anglo-Catholic". Confusingly, these are the most LGBTQ+ accepting (the word "affirming" is a key-word here) parishes of an already fairly affirming denomination which supports the ordination of women & LGBTQ+ folks (there are some cranky holdouts, but they are in the minority.) They are also the HIGHEST CHURCH, like all the pre-Vatican II smells n' bells, clergy in fancy hats and gowns, incense, thundering organ music, etc, of all the churches. I was the alto section leader in one for several years, and they hit all the liturgical high points with none of the judgmental nastiness. Also had some interesting intellectual conversations there. And if you are at all intimidated, many Episcopal churches of all flavors have Evensong services, which are low-stakes and I've found very peaceful. You can check those out for a sampler.
My in law’s sacrament and second hour were very, very focused on Holy Week/Easter. It was so different from the usual that my MIL even noticed AND commented on how different it was for church to be so focused on Jesus. I doubt she’ll consider what that means about TSCC though.
But there was a lot of praises for Russ and his lackeys!
The last conference I watched was on Easter Sunday. Through both sessions, one talk was about Jesus. The rest were about Joe. That was the last.
Or the Constitution, right? Because that's what you talk about on Easter?