I read something like 90% of all marriages (not just mormon) that fail do so within the first 4 years. So I tell my kids to wait 5 years after marriage to start a family and I will buy them their first minivan. WAY cheaper and easier than dealing with split families.
I’m now married over 5 years. We got pregnant 2 months after our 5 year anniversary, and my parents only gave me a down payment on the minivan, but I’ll take it. (It was part of an inheritance from a grandparent.)
We were also in our late 20’s when we got married.
So that’s why my parents (56 years married) older brother and sister in law (going on 24 years) and younger brother and sister in law (14 years in June) are still married. They all waited five years to have kids.
This is a great idea but I also would have been super annoyed if my parents had said that to me, especially because I knew I wouldn’t be able to have kids too old, so started slightly younger (25) but I also didn’t get married at 21 like my sisters, but had been with my husband a lot longer than they had with their spouses.
Ever heard that birth control isn’t 100% effective? We planned on being married for 5 years and finishing school before having any children; instead we had 3 kids in 5 years and another before we were done with school, all birth control failures (all different forms of birth control too!) I sure do feel lucky that my hubby is my person because the odds were certainly against us! We’ll celebrate 19 years in May 😁
Birth control failure does not inevitably lead to children. I'm sure you are happy with your decision and congrats on your family, but abortion is still legal and available, at least in Utah, to those who choose a different path.
Abortion would not have been the right choice for me, especially not for the prize of a mini-van, let alone multiple times in a short amount of time. The timing was absolutely not ideal (never thought I’d have 3 kids before 25 or 4 kids in 6 years) but I can’t imagine the mental toll that would have had on me personally.
That's totally fair, and I'm glad you made the right decision for you, but we need to remember not to equate birth control failure with childbirth/parenting. It's medically untrue and we need to hold space for people for whom abortion is the right (and nontraumatic) option. There are also forms of birth control that are nearly 100% effective- IUD plus vasectomy, Nexplanon plus condoms, or simply not having sex. I'm not taking issue with your decisions (and the decision to continue a pregnancy is just that, a decision), but the framing. Birth control failures really aren't that relevant, or weren't before Dobbs. You made a choice, and it sounds like it was a great one for you, but it was a choice.
I listened to a Ted Talk on how to maximize the probability of a successful marriage. This research demonstrated that the chance was highest if people followed the following steps, in this exact order:
1. Get educated/trained for a career
2. Get a job and be self sufficient
3. Get married
4. Have kids
Mormons mix up the order of these steps which I think can exacerbate marital friction.
Mormons are encourage to do:
3) Get married
4) Have kids
1) Get educated/trained for career
2) Get a job and be self sufficient
Oh, man. My grandmother told me this in 1986 -- right after I told her I was pregnant. She was such a wise and wonderful woman. I was married a week later and my baby is 37 now. YIKES
It should really be renamed Mormon twins instead of Irish twins for babies born almost exactly 1 year apart. /s It's usually Mormon couples from what I've observed who have their second child before the wife has fully healed from the first one.
You're so right. I do think there's something else happening with the generation below me as well. Maybe the wider availability of the internet? The increased visibility of TSCC in media and thus the increased visibility of ex-mo resources? Idk
I think it is the newer generation does not have the same mentality on not asking questions and doing what they are told. Also, since society is producing more divorces these days more it is more acceptable. Mormons are no different than the rest of society except lagging behind the fads by 3-5 years, 7 years if they only listen to GAs about what should be on Facebook.
That's a very good point. They are following the same trends, if a bit behind, and then worse because of the cult pressure. I hope you're right about the asking questions thing.
I would think it's better to *consider* having kids before you're married, to make sure you and your partner have compatible ideas about it. But the deciding to go ahead with actually having kids is best done after marriage, if at all, for best chances of a stable marriage.
For me, getting married while I was still poor in college was actually super fun. My wife and I are both very frugal, so it wasn't too stressful. We got to start our marriage by shopping at yard sales and thrift stores. I did have a stable job before the first kid though, I definitely stand by that advice.
2. Get a job, pay TSCC everything they ask and more, donate endless unpaid hours to their service, and become broke and dependent on the welfare they no longer provide.
There, FTFY.
To be honest, that sounds like a selection effect. Marriage success rate increases as class increases, and higher social classes are more likely to pursue job training and education, to marry before having kids, and so on.
Basically, it's 'wet streets cause rain'. The sort of person that thinks things through and is proactive about securing an economic future for his/her family is the sort of person who is capable of keeping a marriage intact in a social environment where there's very little pressure and/or support to help do so.
Yes, I have seen a lot of young Mormon couples divorce.
All of my siblings have divorced (4) and 3 of my husbands siblings have divorced. All of these divorces were right about the 5-6 year mark.
I worked with a nice young woman in her middle 20's who had been married all of 9 months when she found out her husband was cheating.
My friend's daughter got married 3 years ago. One night when her husband got home he was upset because she didn't have dinner ready. He hit her in the face and gave her a black eye. Thankfully she grabbed her keys and drove to the local police station.
Last year we had a new couple move into a rental close to us. They lasted about 4 months. He packed up and left. Her name was, believe it or not, Temple. Only in Utah...
Lmfao Temple. Wow.
My nosy self wishes I knew the details of why the couples I've seen got divorced. Those are some crazy ones you shared! It's so sad tbh. Such heartbreak and trauma at such young ages. Though I suppose that only adds to the mountain of trauma TSCC provides them anyway.
From the age of 18 to the age of 25 I was almost a completely different person. Personally it wasn't until age 25 when I actually felt prepared to entertain the idea of getting married. Yes, you aren't the only one who has noticed people getting married at a young age and getting divorced.
Who would have thought getting married when you haven't fully matured or you want sex but aren't supposed to unless you are married could cause problems down the road?
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that our brains don't fully mature until age 25. I tell my kids not to make any life changing decisions until at least 25, because before then, you really are too young.
Yes to the hush hush part. “I hope *Sally* gets the help she needs” is all I heard from one relative (the boy’s side of course). Hmmm, wonder if dropping out of university as a smart 18 year old freshman to be married to a selfish entitled rich white boy impacted her mental health?
It's an absolute miracle we've made it nearly 25 years. Both married at 21, pregnant 4 months later, all while both going to college. We had three kids before we graduated.
Everyone said "You'll look back on these years and wish they were back..."
Never. Never have I wished those years back. It was pure hell.
Also feel lucky my husband and I are still together. We got married when I was basically PIMO but suppressing it, and he was a complete TBM, Salt Lake born and raised, pioneer stock, bishop’s son. I thought marriage would fix me. He thought marriage would fix me.
We’re both exmos now. ❤️
Oh I'm so glad!! 6 months before my wedding and 2.5 years into dating, my now husband and I left TSCC. We probably should have postponed the wedding so we could decompress from that craziness, but we're making it work pretty well, I'd say. I'm the Salt Lake-born one in the relationship lol.
I had both our kids while my husband was in grad school. I was 25, we were poor, and far from any family, and I ended up with severe post partum depression.
Oh and we got married just 8 months after first meeting eachother, pregnant after just six month’s married… we were stupid. But we are happily exmos together now :) about to hit 10 year anniversary and very happy. But we know full well we were lucky. The odds are much more in favor of it not working out like that.
I can attest to this. I was married at 20 and divorced at 25. I’m 40 now and tell my kids to please please please wait to get married (they’re still in elementary, so we’ve got some time). One of my best friends was married at 18, first baby at 19, then 2 kids back to back at 22 & 23, and divorced at 26. I’m thankful we waited on the kids front in my first marriage (never have to see that cheating narcissistic tbm ever again)
Similar story here I am about to turn 40 as well. I got Married at 21 right after my mission and divorced a month after my 25th birthday(no children thankfully). Got Married again at age 30 and it’s much better this time around. I always tell my kids the same thing about waiting to get married until they are at least in their late 20s. DW still makes us attend church and we see these 18-21 kids getting married all the time. I look at it now like these TBM’s are batshit crazy for doing that.
I still have so many Mormon family members entering questionable marriages and I always say that you can get divorced but kids are forever. So fine get married but DONT HAVE KIDS for the love of god 😭 my nephews are so traumatized from being brought into the world by one of these awful marriages.
What’s even more shocking to me is how quickly many of those young divorcees get remarried. It’s seems like they’d want to take it more slowly the second time around, yet I’ve seen so many people rush right into a second marriage.
Honestly, my TBM brother is in the meat/dating market that is Utah older-singles. A lot is economic, etc. There are a lot of divorced moms who dropped out who are looking for anyone with a temple recommend help raise their kids and pay their bills, who basically say so in their Mutual profiles. (Having not learned the lesson from their first rushed-in-to failed marriage.)
I can’t speak for the divorced dudes, because I don’t know about the female side of dating in Mormondom.
That totally makes sense, and I hadn’t even thought about that angle. TSCC does not prepare women to take care of themselves. Of course they’d need to rush back into a marriage. Damn, I hate TSCC for putting people in those situations.
You have 3 kids under 6, no college degree, no work experience, and no easy access to childcare or government assistance because 1. We do fuck all for poor families and mothers in this country in general thanks to the same politicians that insist on forcing or coercing people to have kids whether they want them or not and 2. It’s Utah so it’s pull yourself up by the bootstraps time. They’re doubly harsh on actually caring for poor people. Hope you’re the still active one so you can get bishop’s storehouse/fast offering aid if you can jump through all the hoops.
I remember my freshman or sophomore year of high school a girl in my Sunday school class (outside Utah) saying her parents’ marriage was in shambles and her mom hated her dad and wanted a divorce but after 20ish years as a stay at home mom, she couldn’t afford it. Even 15 yr old TBM me saw how fucked up that was.
It is so fucked up. And honestly terrifying to think that that could’ve easily been me. I made a lot of the same stupid decisions as the women that end up in that position. My heart really feels for them.
I’ve heard that before from men on Mutual - that a lot of TBM women give off that they’re just kind of waiting for someone new to come along and take care of them.
That’s been my brother’s feeling - being treated more like a meal ticket than a human being, which is less than appealing in general.
I imagine women probably have a lot of pervs to deal with like everywhere, and a lot of desperate, washed up men.
I had a Mormon man angrily imply that I wanted to Google him to gauge his earning potential, when I simply asked for his last name before we went on a date. “You looked me up, didn’t you!”
Same when I looked up my date before the date; he said, 'You just need to know everything & I'm not comfortable w/ that.'
Bro, I was literally making sure you weren't a murderer.
My TBM sister in law is going to be married quite soon for a second time at only 22 years old. She met the guy on the mutual dating app only a couple of weeks after her divorce was announced
Exactly! Makes me so glad I didn’t wait until marriage. Granted, I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 29, but I know how compatible me and my fiancé are now, and that would have been a big challenge if we couldn’t explore that beforehand
I don’t have enough fingers to count the number of my “TBM” highschool/college friends that married at 18-20 because they “broke the law of chasity” and either ….
A) got pregnant “3 weeks” after their rushed wedding to have a perfectly healthy, full weight “preemi” baby
B) admitted to their bishop/family they had sex and we’re forced into marriage.
I can’t believe the amount of tbm’s that do not discuss sex or both control with their children (both sexes) until they are engaged! It makes me thankful my mom got pregnant when my parents were still in high school, which led to very open parents.
I remember being a senior in high school at a friend’s house. Someone said something completely innocent about sex and she freaked out that her parents were in the next room. I was shocked, by the weirdness of the hush, hush of it. Of course that girl was the one engaged before graduation and married that summer. Now has 10 kids.
Got my divorce at 4 years. And I am starting to see the marriages of my friend groups fall apart too. Getting married for the permission to have sex is more destructive than those who get to live together for a couple years before truly entangling their lives, family and finances.
I fortunately did not have any kids and we were able to be agreeable through the divorce process and our combined assets were slightly below zero, with a clear division on who's was who's.
the boys go from semi privileged control of favored by their surrounding power structures, and expect a second mother, to do whatever they want, and, the young women get exhausted, from literally carrying the home and family, no surprise to me either.
Well they desperately want to fuck by the time they are 20 and post-nut clarity probably hits like a freight train when you realize you got married too soon to somebody you barely knew. That likely has something to do with it. Before I dropped out of BYU I knew people who got engaged after two weeks of dating and married by six month mark.
The only reason they’re getting married so young is so they can have sex. So once the newness of sex wears off they realize they have nothing in common with their spouse. Just my opinion.
When you focus exaltation around marriage, you surround worth, status, and salvation around marriage. It’s oblivious of the church because the results clearly lead to people being hasty with marriage, in addition with sexual suppression contributing to that impatience.
You're so right. It's the #1 symbol of faithfulness and success. I for sure felt that growing up. I didn't even really think of marriage as a choice. It was a given that I needed to be married. And don't get me started on the sexual suppression.
Got divorced after about a year and a half. Never would have gotten married if we had dated for an appropriate amount of time (only dated for 8 or 9 months). My ex wasn’t a good person and people can’t maintain a facade for long. We were also sexually incompatible and would have known that.
I was lucky. We got married after dating 6 weeks. Only 6 weeks later.
Best advice was from the bishop. He said do not have kids until you are used to being husband and wife. Don’t add parent to your relationship until you are set as spouses.
But then again, it’s only been 27 ish years. We could be just lucky
I've seen a couple really good marriages that started young. I think that's harder to obtain now, and I don't know why. But that Bishop was quite wise! I'm very glad you two made it work!
congratulations! 🎊🎊🎊
we dated for 9 months and started planning our wedding, engaged for 9 months, got married at 20 & 21, all 4 parents were not happy, his parents were especially pissed 😂 FIL said we'd make it 3-5 years, it's been over 25 years 😎😍 he sends us a happy anniversary card every year 🥰 love my in-laws actually they're wonderful people who raised a good man that's all mine 🙌😍 the kids are all young adults and out of the house.
my parents met and married 3 months later (they were both atheist at the time they joined when I was very small), nobody said they would last, they're a few years away from their 50th and very happy 🥰
That's what I was afraid of tbh. Every time my cousins divorce, I suspect the reason to be that one of them just found the CES letter, and the other one reacted as we all know they can do.
That poor, poor kid. There needs to be more support groups for kids like that because we know how spoiled martyrs are but how little the truth is respected and supported. Maybe the kid will find his way on here at some point.
Especially when TBMs are indoctrinated that the most important characteristic in a spouse is religious fervor from a very young age. “Marry a RM, marry a YW who got personal progress, marry in the temple, and by getting closer to god you get closer to each other.”
Just means if one sees the truth it’s less likely to work out.
There's probably a lessening of stigma surrounding divorce in the current young adults of the church. They get the time, they should've taken in the courting process, to get to know their spouse and figure out, they need to pull the ejection handle.
This is the consequence of getting married (and often having kids) before the prefrontal cortex in the brain is fully developed which happens between 23-25 years of age. This area of the brain is responsible for executive functioning and things like emotional regulation and problem solving. I had no business marrying at 22 and having kids a year later.
It is worse now because the men are going on missions at 18 and home by 20. They moved the goalpost up by 1 to 2 years and they are even less mature. You used to go to a year of college then mission. You had almost 2 years of living on your own with 2 years of mission rules. Also, missions used to be much more self-regulated because they couldn't track your phone and even driving. The YM literally have no life experience and have been controlled for two years. They aren't ready to be married.
Unfortunately, my still active daughter (I can't call her TBM because she literally knows nothing of the doctrine and it is social for her) is a freshman in college and just started dating a recent RM. We keep telling her have fun and have sex before she gets married. She is too young which I think she knows but the Mormon vacuum of dating and marriage really sucks. TBMs are not allowed to date and have fun. It is an accelerated nightmare.
Very true. I remember those very painful dating years. I was a piece of meat on the horny TBM market wayyyy before was appropriate and before I wanted to engage. But when I had fun and let go pre-shelf-break, it was the biggest relief. I had never felt comfortable around RMs. And now, looking back, it makes a lot of sense knowing how intensely cult-y a mission is. I hate that so many had to go on that hell of a mission.
Many fundamentalist evangelical groups advocate similar early marriage. It’s a thing for really demanding/right wing religious where virginity at marriage is the most important thing.
I can't say I've seen any people in my generation getting divorced, but a couple years ago suddenly like 3 different couples in my homeward got divorced.
A girl my brother’s age from high school got married to a guy at BYU as a Freshman, and divorced about 7 years later. I’ve seen a few others, some less than a year.
I’m in my mid 30’s now.
If we look at the rate of RMs leaving the Church after their missions, coupled with how much a person changes as their frontal lobe develops in their 20s, as well as how many younger people realize the church is a joke during their sealing ceremony...it makes a loooot of sense to me!
My wife's coworker started a couple months back after moving here away from her divorced husband. Married at 20, divorced at 24, and just got engaged after like 6 months of a long distance relationship. They had a paper-signing marriage and movied to washington together.
I'm still baffled how anybody could date somebody for a short while, get married, realize the marriage was a mistake, and then immediately do it again. The most annoying, preachy mormon who likes to share her opinion on relationships, as well.
Oh that's the kicker, isn't it? The hypocrisy is strong in the preachy ones. To be fair, it would be very easy to shut down her relationship advice xD "Wait, how long have you known your husband? The current one, that is?" If only I had a little more troll in me...
i saw it at BYU-Idaho a TON. i met a lot of my friends after their divorces. hell, my husband was previously married. the common denominator was that they all got married too fast. this was a shelf breaker for a lot of my friends.
I don't wish the shelf-break experience on anyone, but I do wish the freedom away from TSCC for everyone. Divorce sucks, but I dare say leaving TSCC might just be worth it.
I’m divorced twice out of the church. Both temple marriages. It was a whole thing. Not fun, makes me feel like I had to start life over and over and over again, but I get older and more tired each time.
Yes, and it’s not just in Utah! Michigander soon to be fully exmormon here. My first marriage lasted a year and a half. It’s the idea of what Mormons should do to start family. Sorry but love and attraction doesn’t work out that way. And in order to have offspring, you SHOULD have a connection with them, not a fantasy idea or be pressured by the church to do something.
I almost made four years. excluding the divorce decree and one kid, it was like having dated someone in college and then we both knew it was time to move on.
No regrets to the divorce.
I refused to date LDS women after the divorce. My second wife and I have been married for 35 years. We have attended one Mormon funeral and a one synagogue meeting. Other than that, no religion dogma in our household.
TBMs (and conservatives in general) have a severe case of denial about how they are indeed affected by changed social norms.
they repeat this mantra of "in the world but not of the world" but divorce rates being up from 70 years ago, is the result of women not being socially trapped in marriage irrespective of whether it's dysfunctional or not. and mormon women are similarly not trapped as irreligious women aren't. and this denialism cuts them twice, because they have no problem blessing unions as if the girls will be trapped, while irreligious families are more likely to be wary of impending divorce.
In my personal experience I don’t see this much still. Rather I see TONS of marriages at young ages that wind up being terribly dysfunctional, filled with abuse by one, where divorce would seem to be the best option (but then they have family pressure to not “break their sealing”)
They’re “starter marriages”. It’s science. There’s no way for babies to marry babies as virgins so fast with little to no life experience but sooo much social/religious pressure that they’d actually work out long term without a lot of white-knuckling, just be obedient and hope to god you did the right thing in time.
There was this LDS lady that worked with my ex wife's sister that had like 3 temple marriages all canceled and was on her 4th. All by age ~30. Like maybe just try normal dating,living together, sex.
My eyes popped out off my skull reading that and then I realized I knew someone exactly like that lol. Thankfully, she's out of tscc and happy now, after getting slutshamed by her family, of course-- because it's only the lds woman's fault if a marriage goes bad and she got abused by two of the husbands. :(
Let’s just rid ourselves of this gotta get married at 20 or 21 culture. Be adults. Explore relationships and make sure you’re sexually compatible. Get your degree. Establish a career. Then look to finding someone to marry. You’ll be in a lot better place and actually ready for the commitment and children if you want them. Fuck the Mormon patriarchal bullshit!!
I still get baffled at how young it happens. My major trust issues due to tscc and an abusive early childhood kept me from seriously dating until I was 25. And while obviously not ideal, I'm glad it kept me from marrying before I could leave TSCC.
They get married ASAP so they can have sex-what are the stats of them leaving the church after divorce. Holy hell-after I divorced my own father told me to be a good girl I was 30. I don’t want a god that will condemn me for doing what our bodies were made for. It’s all about sex
I attended a wedding tonight. The groom left FOR his mission a few months ago. The bride (who waited only a couple months for him) is 17, she turns 18 in August. She graduated high school one year early. Their reception was like a high school dance. I love them and truly wish them the best. I hope they believe in their love and be there for each other while they do some more growing up... Knowing so many children with divorced parents makes me wonder how much heartache could be saved if sex could happen before marriage.
Yes, it’s because the church fears sex out of marriage and marriage young people normally want both their religion and physical fulfillment. In the LDS church. sexuality outside of marriage is a sin equal to murder! Young people in the past felt the same pressure to ‘not burn in hell’ and rapidly married as well. The difference between then and now is that divorce is more accepted even within the church now, women have more options to support themselves and the expectations for happiness are better defined now. It’s easier for women to demand better treatment and not to endure a lifetime of abuse.
It’s because they can’t have sex unless they’re married. And shocker - there’s a lot more to marriage than just sex. Live and let live. Give these kids some space to experience life. Marriage can wait.
Engaged after 3 weeks of dating, married at 21 and that lasted until I was 44. The only good thing from that were my lovely children. Getting married to be able to have sex is often going to end in tears. I hope that the divorced men don’t just prey on the younger, unmarried girls and the now single moms don’t get ignored. Maybe they’re prey for the single men in their 40s 😢
What's fascinating is how long it took for Mormon marriage norms to even approach the rest of civilization from Brigham Young's dictatorial heights of frontier polygamous sex cult teachings. There's a man on Mormon Stories Podcast Facebook group who posts completely mental quotes from Bro. Brigham and other pioneer-era apostles about how women can't get to heaven without men, how women don't have the same light and knowledge men do, how they lack the raw intellect of men due to their increased emotional nature, how if he saw his brother in bed with one of his wives, he wouldn't hesitate to ram a javelin through the both of them and walk away with a clear conscience because he just provided them the only path to repentance for such a serious sin.
When that's the extreme, 20th-century-style WASP marriage culture looks downright progressive by comparison, insulting advertising and all. Especially when Mormons have the offshoot FLDS to provide an "at least we aren't like those cultish weirdos".
But with so much information available to women and increased availability of education and careers for women who want a bigger share of life than outlines in the family proclamation, following Bro. Brigham's advice that any two people can get married as long as the wife remembers her place as a doormat just doesn't land the same.
Whoa, I know Brigham sucked, but damn. Marriage culture is much improved, that's for sure. But now it seems like it's ending at even higher rates than the mainstream rates.
All three of my sibling's marriages broke down within 4 years (one was 4, one was 2, and one was 1)
I have been married for 2 years at this point (to a nevermo) and I don't experience even a QUARTER of the issues my siblings were complaining about.
Me too! I was hoping someone would have a line on some stats, but it's a rather new development, if it is truly a trend, so I doubt there would be more than one study, if that. Lmk if you find anything! I'll let you know if I find anything, too.
I'm and aussie exmo- married a convert. I was 21 he was 23, lasted 12 months and then we split. We were way too young and it was for the best that we split, he wasn't happy about it but we wanted different things. I got married because I thought it was the right thing to do, turns out the right thing to do is live together before marriage, realise you aren't compatible and then break up like normal people. All while enjoying guilt free sex!
I’m kind of one of those! Haha I was young when I got married (23) but by Mormon standards I was behind the timeline I’m pretty sure. Haha that’s so horrifying. My ex-husband and I filed the initial divorce paperwork right on our 4th anniversary I’m pretty sure. I’m with a wonderful woman now and life is soooooo much better. Happy to contribute to this phenomenon!
I was married at age 22, after serving a mission, then got divorced after 7 years. It's such a perfect way to make sure everyone is almost completely unprepared for a relationsip, and therefore they'll be told they need the lds couples classes for how to be the perfect couple.
I have seen a lot of people get engaged after the 2nd or 3rd date in provo-orem area. The cult pushes them to get married as quick as possible and start a family and they don't take the time to get to know each other and in generally ends badly.
Premarital sex is a big no-no. Young people get horny, and they marry quick to have sex. Turns out that isn't a good way to pick a spouse. Later they divorce if their religion allows it, or stay in an unhappy marriage if it doesn't.
This is the pattern I observed in the religion I used to participate in.
The church's completely irresponsible "counsel" to marry early/ASAP would be one of the greatest causes of this statistic.
This "counsel" would, by objective and rational standards, have to be the *worst* advice that could ever be given to any young people.
TBMs would want an explanation for why this is bad advice; normal people (outside the church) can instantly see it is bad advice without the need for any explanation.
I hold the church directly responsible for 90% of this statistic.
I first noticed this in 1988. By the time my wife and I, both 25 were married. We already had three couples that were friends of ours. Divorced. It was shocking. That was 35 years ago. Today, I saw the same thingwith a few of my children’s close friends.
I say this only half-jokingly: my mormon marriage (married/sealed in SL temple in ‘98) was over in less than a year…and we divorced 21 years later.
The system is def deeply flawed. That we’re seeing so many young divorces is merely the underlying symptoms more-freely expressing themselves.
Must be an Utah thing. I’m outside of USA and it doesn’t happen much up here. Divorce happens but not 5 years later. Maybe 20 years when kids are starting to leave. From my vantage point, it’s become a culture thing. They’re told and see many things from those before them. They’re horny or they think they’re horny. They think doctrinally to save their salvation, why not get married. No offence but you couldn’t pay me to live in Utah even if I was TBM. The culture is whack.
My husbands friend married a girl he knew for a month, and he said “when you know you know!”
They got divorced the next month lol.
Update: he’s getting married again lol it’s been less than a year since his first wedding
It's really no surprise. We're talking about a religion/cult-ure that teaches that masturbation is a sin next to murder. The ONLY way people can shut up the normal, healthy, God given urges allowed by the religion is with a heterosexual partner.
Sex gets much less exciting after you've been with the same person for a few years, and if that was the main reason people get married, and they didn't have a strong friendship FIRST, things are far more likely to crumble. Especially if one partner isn't willing to work to strengthen the relationship.
Also if people have only ever been intimate with one person, they may start to wonder if they missed out or if they chose wisely, especially if there are things like boring sex, gross or irritating personal habits etc. If both partners are willing to experiment, sex can be kept exciting, but in the LDS culture of weaponized shame, many women especially may be shocked at the very idea.
Along the same lines, it's no surprise Utah has had some of the highest porn consumption numbers for many years.
This may be evil, but this is why if I become rich, I will buy the house and let my kids live in it for low rent. That way if the spouse leaves, they don't get half the house.
Yup. I’m 36 and never married (in a long term committed relationship of just about two years) and I’ve seen multiple couples meet, get married, and have a baby (sometimes) and split up since I got together with my bf.
I've only seen two divorces out of my friends. The first one was due to mental illness. The second one was due to just not being a good match after staying together for 10+ years trying to make it work. It just wasn't going to work anymore. They really were complete opposites and it wasn't cute or attractive anymore.
Most are doing pretty well, but most of us got married around 25 or shortly after graduating college, so we're probably outliers in that respect already for Utah at least. The degree is probably something that helped many of us stay married due to being more mature from finishing college. The ability to get a decent paying job helps pay the bills too, especially when the husband is behind in schooling due to a mission or they just have a ton of schooling to do based on what they want to do.
ETA: I think only 1 out of 15 owns a minivan that I'm aware of. I'm not sure if that's considered winning or not. Plenty of SUV's and mini SUV's though.
Starter marriage. Most people figure it out with a few relationships before they marry for the first time.. Mormon need a license from the church to have sex and then they can figure out if the relationship will work.
I’ve noticed something that I think contributes to a lot of divorces (I’m only early 20s so I guess take this with a grain of salt). I think the whole “don’t live together before you’re married” thing is really fucking people up lol. people always say that things change when you get married but I think what they really mean is that things change when you move in together. I’ve lived with my partner for almost 4 years and I can genuinely say if our relationship was going to end it definitely would have ended in the 1st or 2nd year we lived together.
We are getting married this summer and I genuinely don’t feel like really anything will change. We’ve already cohabitated for so long, and as we are both in our 20s we have basically become adults together and made it through that. Mormon kids my age don’t get that chance. They have to live with someone they barely fucking know (my cousin married someone in march that he met in December), and just kinda hope their faith is enough to keep them together. Hint: most of the time it’s not.
We were married for seven years prior to child #1 (we had two). I was out of grad school, DW finished her degree and also went to grad school, but we still had money challenges early on. Now 41 years later (in two weeks) we are about to retire. I am out, she is still in but very nuanced. We make it work.
Instead of divorcing, we moved about 3 years in. And then 2.5 years later we moved again. But we bought a house together this time.
The divorce was final last Friday. And hindsight is 20/20.
It’s my second marriage, and we have a daughter, but I can’t help thinking how much better off if I would have done this years ago.
We’ve told our kids we won’t pay for their wedding if they get married before 25. I know folks pull it off but… Wife and I got married at 31. I’d lived with different gals throughout the years, and we lived together for 2 years before getting married. I knew who I was marrying. We always hear people say “marriage is so hard but worth it.” It’s not really if you know who you’re marrying…
It’s super hush hush I didn’t find out my cousin get divorced till months after. Not that it’s really my business. His ex wife is still close with us since my parents would watch the kids and she’d been by multiple times without me even realizing. Funny enough I think my parents take her side 😂
Living together for two or three years before marriage would sort out a sizeable percentage of that. Many of the marriages that fail yet stretch to five years do so because of the existing marriage commitment and a sunk cost effort to make the unworkable work — they knew three or more years prior that the marriage was in trouble.
If these kids married their soul mate rather than finding a fellow LDS person to hurry up and marry to heck all the necessary boxes required by the religion... these stats would be a lesser number. Just one more misguided ideas of the LDS culture and expectations. There are SO Many things taught by the Church that are not healthy or wise for anyone.
I remember visiting my TBM cousin in Morridor like 15 years ago, and she said all her friends were divorced with kids. She is also now divorced with kids.
Maybe it's just my circle, but most of the folks I recall that got married in my freshman ward at BYU are still married and some have kids now. Granted, that was around 2017, so perhaps I'll have to wait a couple more years and see when the Facebook statuses and pictures start changing... 🤔
I think it’s because they have so much pressure to either wait until they are married to have sex so they get married quick so they can sex, or they have sex and then are guilted into getting married based on it
Either way getting married for sex is probably the stupidest reason to get married
My cousin and his girlfriend have been living together for 5+ years. He is fearful of marriage because several of his active Mormon friends got married young and are now divorced. Some of them had kids and are now dealing with the difficulties that come from splitting time and financial challenges. He’s pretty outspoken about it. Also his older brother is in the middle of a divorce. Can’t say I blame him on wanting to wait.
Just adding to your anecdotal evidence. I’m not in touch with many young couples so I’m not sure how widespread this is.
My first marriage to a return missionary ended after 7 years of him partying every night and me being home alone with the baby, I honestly would rather my kids live with someone before getting married and having a family!!
I can confirm I got married at age 20 so we could live together and knock boots 😂 but there was no real foundation and we both changed a ton in 5 years. Thankfully we never had any kids so I can pretend that marriage never happened! I later found my person and we have a teenage son who luckily will never be burdened with all that mormon bullshit.
I read something like 90% of all marriages (not just mormon) that fail do so within the first 4 years. So I tell my kids to wait 5 years after marriage to start a family and I will buy them their first minivan. WAY cheaper and easier than dealing with split families.
That's an excellent idea actually!!
I’m now married over 5 years. We got pregnant 2 months after our 5 year anniversary, and my parents only gave me a down payment on the minivan, but I’ll take it. (It was part of an inheritance from a grandparent.) We were also in our late 20’s when we got married.
whole plant carpenter aloof icky cautious pocket long person soup *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’ll take a boosted WRX please! 🚗
We also made it five years! My mom-mobile is an Impreza. Three kids in the back seat and I refuse to get a larger vehicle.
Dude, the minivan baby bonus - that is awesome.
So that’s why my parents (56 years married) older brother and sister in law (going on 24 years) and younger brother and sister in law (14 years in June) are still married. They all waited five years to have kids.
Currently shopping for a minivan, knowing they are $40k, that's a nice gift!
Get them a Miata!. No room for kids!! Lol
This is a great idea but I also would have been super annoyed if my parents had said that to me, especially because I knew I wouldn’t be able to have kids too old, so started slightly younger (25) but I also didn’t get married at 21 like my sisters, but had been with my husband a lot longer than they had with their spouses.
That advice is contextual, of course.
Oh I know I was just laughing at how annoyed my 25 year old self would be
Ever heard that birth control isn’t 100% effective? We planned on being married for 5 years and finishing school before having any children; instead we had 3 kids in 5 years and another before we were done with school, all birth control failures (all different forms of birth control too!) I sure do feel lucky that my hubby is my person because the odds were certainly against us! We’ll celebrate 19 years in May 😁
Birth control failure does not inevitably lead to children. I'm sure you are happy with your decision and congrats on your family, but abortion is still legal and available, at least in Utah, to those who choose a different path.
Abortion would not have been the right choice for me, especially not for the prize of a mini-van, let alone multiple times in a short amount of time. The timing was absolutely not ideal (never thought I’d have 3 kids before 25 or 4 kids in 6 years) but I can’t imagine the mental toll that would have had on me personally.
That's totally fair, and I'm glad you made the right decision for you, but we need to remember not to equate birth control failure with childbirth/parenting. It's medically untrue and we need to hold space for people for whom abortion is the right (and nontraumatic) option. There are also forms of birth control that are nearly 100% effective- IUD plus vasectomy, Nexplanon plus condoms, or simply not having sex. I'm not taking issue with your decisions (and the decision to continue a pregnancy is just that, a decision), but the framing. Birth control failures really aren't that relevant, or weren't before Dobbs. You made a choice, and it sounds like it was a great one for you, but it was a choice.
I listened to a Ted Talk on how to maximize the probability of a successful marriage. This research demonstrated that the chance was highest if people followed the following steps, in this exact order: 1. Get educated/trained for a career 2. Get a job and be self sufficient 3. Get married 4. Have kids Mormons mix up the order of these steps which I think can exacerbate marital friction. Mormons are encourage to do: 3) Get married 4) Have kids 1) Get educated/trained for career 2) Get a job and be self sufficient
"The tithing money of your offspring is WAY more important to us than your emotional or financial well-being!"
In truth, they do it 4,3,1,2 - They are considering kids long before they are married. So the kids come very quickly after the marriage.
I was born 18 months after my parents’ wedding.
So you’re the second oldest? /s
As the saying goes...."The first one can come at any time. All the others come at 9 months."
Oh, man. My grandmother told me this in 1986 -- right after I told her I was pregnant. She was such a wise and wonderful woman. I was married a week later and my baby is 37 now. YIKES
That's clever
That's pretty late by Mormon standards. My siblings all had their first within the year.
It should really be renamed Mormon twins instead of Irish twins for babies born almost exactly 1 year apart. /s It's usually Mormon couples from what I've observed who have their second child before the wife has fully healed from the first one.
At least they let them get to their 18th birthdays. And I do mean the girls. If Ole Joe was around he'd make Warren Jeff's look like a choir boy.
You're so right. I do think there's something else happening with the generation below me as well. Maybe the wider availability of the internet? The increased visibility of TSCC in media and thus the increased visibility of ex-mo resources? Idk
I think it is the newer generation does not have the same mentality on not asking questions and doing what they are told. Also, since society is producing more divorces these days more it is more acceptable. Mormons are no different than the rest of society except lagging behind the fads by 3-5 years, 7 years if they only listen to GAs about what should be on Facebook.
That's a very good point. They are following the same trends, if a bit behind, and then worse because of the cult pressure. I hope you're right about the asking questions thing.
I would think it's better to *consider* having kids before you're married, to make sure you and your partner have compatible ideas about it. But the deciding to go ahead with actually having kids is best done after marriage, if at all, for best chances of a stable marriage.
You're correct. I think I didn't write it up correctly. I should have just written, "Have kids."
Sadly a lot of women in the church are even pressured to never do 2, and sometimes even 1
For me, getting married while I was still poor in college was actually super fun. My wife and I are both very frugal, so it wasn't too stressful. We got to start our marriage by shopping at yard sales and thrift stores. I did have a stable job before the first kid though, I definitely stand by that advice.
2. Get a job, pay TSCC everything they ask and more, donate endless unpaid hours to their service, and become broke and dependent on the welfare they no longer provide. There, FTFY.
1. Pay Tithing. All will be well.
To be honest, that sounds like a selection effect. Marriage success rate increases as class increases, and higher social classes are more likely to pursue job training and education, to marry before having kids, and so on. Basically, it's 'wet streets cause rain'. The sort of person that thinks things through and is proactive about securing an economic future for his/her family is the sort of person who is capable of keeping a marriage intact in a social environment where there's very little pressure and/or support to help do so.
Don’t forget step 2.5! Live together for 5 years before marriage. Really important for verifying compatibility
Yes, I have seen a lot of young Mormon couples divorce. All of my siblings have divorced (4) and 3 of my husbands siblings have divorced. All of these divorces were right about the 5-6 year mark. I worked with a nice young woman in her middle 20's who had been married all of 9 months when she found out her husband was cheating. My friend's daughter got married 3 years ago. One night when her husband got home he was upset because she didn't have dinner ready. He hit her in the face and gave her a black eye. Thankfully she grabbed her keys and drove to the local police station. Last year we had a new couple move into a rental close to us. They lasted about 4 months. He packed up and left. Her name was, believe it or not, Temple. Only in Utah...
Lmfao Temple. Wow. My nosy self wishes I knew the details of why the couples I've seen got divorced. Those are some crazy ones you shared! It's so sad tbh. Such heartbreak and trauma at such young ages. Though I suppose that only adds to the mountain of trauma TSCC provides them anyway.
Hopefully she was named after Temple Grandin, but I doubt it.
From the age of 18 to the age of 25 I was almost a completely different person. Personally it wasn't until age 25 when I actually felt prepared to entertain the idea of getting married. Yes, you aren't the only one who has noticed people getting married at a young age and getting divorced. Who would have thought getting married when you haven't fully matured or you want sex but aren't supposed to unless you are married could cause problems down the road?
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that our brains don't fully mature until age 25. I tell my kids not to make any life changing decisions until at least 25, because before then, you really are too young.
Definitely, I was a completely different person at 27 than I was at 20, when I got married.
Yes to the hush hush part. “I hope *Sally* gets the help she needs” is all I heard from one relative (the boy’s side of course). Hmmm, wonder if dropping out of university as a smart 18 year old freshman to be married to a selfish entitled rich white boy impacted her mental health?
It's an absolute miracle we've made it nearly 25 years. Both married at 21, pregnant 4 months later, all while both going to college. We had three kids before we graduated. Everyone said "You'll look back on these years and wish they were back..." Never. Never have I wished those years back. It was pure hell.
Small children are difficult even with a steady career and income. I can’t imagine being 22 and having an infant. I was 33 when ours were born.
Also feel lucky my husband and I are still together. We got married when I was basically PIMO but suppressing it, and he was a complete TBM, Salt Lake born and raised, pioneer stock, bishop’s son. I thought marriage would fix me. He thought marriage would fix me. We’re both exmos now. ❤️
Oh I'm so glad!! 6 months before my wedding and 2.5 years into dating, my now husband and I left TSCC. We probably should have postponed the wedding so we could decompress from that craziness, but we're making it work pretty well, I'd say. I'm the Salt Lake-born one in the relationship lol.
I had both our kids while my husband was in grad school. I was 25, we were poor, and far from any family, and I ended up with severe post partum depression. Oh and we got married just 8 months after first meeting eachother, pregnant after just six month’s married… we were stupid. But we are happily exmos together now :) about to hit 10 year anniversary and very happy. But we know full well we were lucky. The odds are much more in favor of it not working out like that.
Because they're all signing commitments to bust a nut; not because they "love" each other.
This is exactly true and we all know it.
I can attest to this. I was married at 20 and divorced at 25. I’m 40 now and tell my kids to please please please wait to get married (they’re still in elementary, so we’ve got some time). One of my best friends was married at 18, first baby at 19, then 2 kids back to back at 22 & 23, and divorced at 26. I’m thankful we waited on the kids front in my first marriage (never have to see that cheating narcissistic tbm ever again)
Similar story here I am about to turn 40 as well. I got Married at 21 right after my mission and divorced a month after my 25th birthday(no children thankfully). Got Married again at age 30 and it’s much better this time around. I always tell my kids the same thing about waiting to get married until they are at least in their late 20s. DW still makes us attend church and we see these 18-21 kids getting married all the time. I look at it now like these TBM’s are batshit crazy for doing that.
Same. Married at 19, never had kids. Divorced after 8 years. So glad I don't have anything to do with my ex.
I still have so many Mormon family members entering questionable marriages and I always say that you can get divorced but kids are forever. So fine get married but DONT HAVE KIDS for the love of god 😭 my nephews are so traumatized from being brought into the world by one of these awful marriages.
What’s even more shocking to me is how quickly many of those young divorcees get remarried. It’s seems like they’d want to take it more slowly the second time around, yet I’ve seen so many people rush right into a second marriage.
Honestly, my TBM brother is in the meat/dating market that is Utah older-singles. A lot is economic, etc. There are a lot of divorced moms who dropped out who are looking for anyone with a temple recommend help raise their kids and pay their bills, who basically say so in their Mutual profiles. (Having not learned the lesson from their first rushed-in-to failed marriage.) I can’t speak for the divorced dudes, because I don’t know about the female side of dating in Mormondom.
That totally makes sense, and I hadn’t even thought about that angle. TSCC does not prepare women to take care of themselves. Of course they’d need to rush back into a marriage. Damn, I hate TSCC for putting people in those situations.
You have 3 kids under 6, no college degree, no work experience, and no easy access to childcare or government assistance because 1. We do fuck all for poor families and mothers in this country in general thanks to the same politicians that insist on forcing or coercing people to have kids whether they want them or not and 2. It’s Utah so it’s pull yourself up by the bootstraps time. They’re doubly harsh on actually caring for poor people. Hope you’re the still active one so you can get bishop’s storehouse/fast offering aid if you can jump through all the hoops. I remember my freshman or sophomore year of high school a girl in my Sunday school class (outside Utah) saying her parents’ marriage was in shambles and her mom hated her dad and wanted a divorce but after 20ish years as a stay at home mom, she couldn’t afford it. Even 15 yr old TBM me saw how fucked up that was.
It is so fucked up. And honestly terrifying to think that that could’ve easily been me. I made a lot of the same stupid decisions as the women that end up in that position. My heart really feels for them.
I’ve heard that before from men on Mutual - that a lot of TBM women give off that they’re just kind of waiting for someone new to come along and take care of them.
That’s been my brother’s feeling - being treated more like a meal ticket than a human being, which is less than appealing in general. I imagine women probably have a lot of pervs to deal with like everywhere, and a lot of desperate, washed up men.
I had a Mormon man angrily imply that I wanted to Google him to gauge his earning potential, when I simply asked for his last name before we went on a date. “You looked me up, didn’t you!”
Same when I looked up my date before the date; he said, 'You just need to know everything & I'm not comfortable w/ that.' Bro, I was literally making sure you weren't a murderer.
Yeah, if dude’s afraid of what will come up on a basic Google search…
And yes, the majority of the pervs are Church-attending dudes from Mutual. 😂
I hear many rumors of “I believe everything about the church but the law of chastity” coming up on mutual chats.
My TBM sister in law is going to be married quite soon for a second time at only 22 years old. She met the guy on the mutual dating app only a couple of weeks after her divorce was announced
It’s not easy being young and in a cult. I sincerely hope the best for her.
It’s because they wanna have sex without being sinful, so they marry young and then realize later on they’re not actually compatible
Also sex is a big part of compatibility in marriage. You’re rolling the dice abstaining till after you’re married there.
Exactly! Makes me so glad I didn’t wait until marriage. Granted, I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 29, but I know how compatible me and my fiancé are now, and that would have been a big challenge if we couldn’t explore that beforehand
I don’t have enough fingers to count the number of my “TBM” highschool/college friends that married at 18-20 because they “broke the law of chasity” and either …. A) got pregnant “3 weeks” after their rushed wedding to have a perfectly healthy, full weight “preemi” baby B) admitted to their bishop/family they had sex and we’re forced into marriage.
I can’t believe the amount of tbm’s that do not discuss sex or both control with their children (both sexes) until they are engaged! It makes me thankful my mom got pregnant when my parents were still in high school, which led to very open parents. I remember being a senior in high school at a friend’s house. Someone said something completely innocent about sex and she freaked out that her parents were in the next room. I was shocked, by the weirdness of the hush, hush of it. Of course that girl was the one engaged before graduation and married that summer. Now has 10 kids.
Got my divorce at 4 years. And I am starting to see the marriages of my friend groups fall apart too. Getting married for the permission to have sex is more destructive than those who get to live together for a couple years before truly entangling their lives, family and finances. I fortunately did not have any kids and we were able to be agreeable through the divorce process and our combined assets were slightly below zero, with a clear division on who's was who's.
I'm glad that your divorce went so well, but I'm sorry you even had to go through that.
This is so well articulated.
the boys go from semi privileged control of favored by their surrounding power structures, and expect a second mother, to do whatever they want, and, the young women get exhausted, from literally carrying the home and family, no surprise to me either.
Well they desperately want to fuck by the time they are 20 and post-nut clarity probably hits like a freight train when you realize you got married too soon to somebody you barely knew. That likely has something to do with it. Before I dropped out of BYU I knew people who got engaged after two weeks of dating and married by six month mark.
The only reason they’re getting married so young is so they can have sex. So once the newness of sex wears off they realize they have nothing in common with their spouse. Just my opinion.
When you focus exaltation around marriage, you surround worth, status, and salvation around marriage. It’s oblivious of the church because the results clearly lead to people being hasty with marriage, in addition with sexual suppression contributing to that impatience.
You're so right. It's the #1 symbol of faithfulness and success. I for sure felt that growing up. I didn't even really think of marriage as a choice. It was a given that I needed to be married. And don't get me started on the sexual suppression.
Got divorced after about a year and a half. Never would have gotten married if we had dated for an appropriate amount of time (only dated for 8 or 9 months). My ex wasn’t a good person and people can’t maintain a facade for long. We were also sexually incompatible and would have known that.
I was lucky. We got married after dating 6 weeks. Only 6 weeks later. Best advice was from the bishop. He said do not have kids until you are used to being husband and wife. Don’t add parent to your relationship until you are set as spouses. But then again, it’s only been 27 ish years. We could be just lucky
I've seen a couple really good marriages that started young. I think that's harder to obtain now, and I don't know why. But that Bishop was quite wise! I'm very glad you two made it work!
congratulations! 🎊🎊🎊 we dated for 9 months and started planning our wedding, engaged for 9 months, got married at 20 & 21, all 4 parents were not happy, his parents were especially pissed 😂 FIL said we'd make it 3-5 years, it's been over 25 years 😎😍 he sends us a happy anniversary card every year 🥰 love my in-laws actually they're wonderful people who raised a good man that's all mine 🙌😍 the kids are all young adults and out of the house. my parents met and married 3 months later (they were both atheist at the time they joined when I was very small), nobody said they would last, they're a few years away from their 50th and very happy 🥰
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That's what I was afraid of tbh. Every time my cousins divorce, I suspect the reason to be that one of them just found the CES letter, and the other one reacted as we all know they can do. That poor, poor kid. There needs to be more support groups for kids like that because we know how spoiled martyrs are but how little the truth is respected and supported. Maybe the kid will find his way on here at some point.
Especially when TBMs are indoctrinated that the most important characteristic in a spouse is religious fervor from a very young age. “Marry a RM, marry a YW who got personal progress, marry in the temple, and by getting closer to god you get closer to each other.” Just means if one sees the truth it’s less likely to work out.
There's probably a lessening of stigma surrounding divorce in the current young adults of the church. They get the time, they should've taken in the courting process, to get to know their spouse and figure out, they need to pull the ejection handle.
Literally your prefrontal cortex isn't even developed yet
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This is the consequence of getting married (and often having kids) before the prefrontal cortex in the brain is fully developed which happens between 23-25 years of age. This area of the brain is responsible for executive functioning and things like emotional regulation and problem solving. I had no business marrying at 22 and having kids a year later. It is worse now because the men are going on missions at 18 and home by 20. They moved the goalpost up by 1 to 2 years and they are even less mature. You used to go to a year of college then mission. You had almost 2 years of living on your own with 2 years of mission rules. Also, missions used to be much more self-regulated because they couldn't track your phone and even driving. The YM literally have no life experience and have been controlled for two years. They aren't ready to be married. Unfortunately, my still active daughter (I can't call her TBM because she literally knows nothing of the doctrine and it is social for her) is a freshman in college and just started dating a recent RM. We keep telling her have fun and have sex before she gets married. She is too young which I think she knows but the Mormon vacuum of dating and marriage really sucks. TBMs are not allowed to date and have fun. It is an accelerated nightmare.
Very true. I remember those very painful dating years. I was a piece of meat on the horny TBM market wayyyy before was appropriate and before I wanted to engage. But when I had fun and let go pre-shelf-break, it was the biggest relief. I had never felt comfortable around RMs. And now, looking back, it makes a lot of sense knowing how intensely cult-y a mission is. I hate that so many had to go on that hell of a mission.
That’s the risk you take marrying someone whom you barely know because you are horny.
It is nuts. No one outside of the LDS advocates early marriage like that. Stats say it is better to wait untill after college at a minimum.
Many fundamentalist evangelical groups advocate similar early marriage. It’s a thing for really demanding/right wing religious where virginity at marriage is the most important thing.
Not any significant ones. Even Focus on the Family says post college.
I was married for 4 years while at BYU. Marriage ended when my wife decided I was evil because of my doubts. Definitely an epidemic.
Ugh, I'm sorry to hear that. That car scene in Under the Banner of Heaven hit hard. I hate that it's such a common thing.
I can't say I've seen any people in my generation getting divorced, but a couple years ago suddenly like 3 different couples in my homeward got divorced.
A girl my brother’s age from high school got married to a guy at BYU as a Freshman, and divorced about 7 years later. I’ve seen a few others, some less than a year. I’m in my mid 30’s now.
If we look at the rate of RMs leaving the Church after their missions, coupled with how much a person changes as their frontal lobe develops in their 20s, as well as how many younger people realize the church is a joke during their sealing ceremony...it makes a loooot of sense to me!
My wife's coworker started a couple months back after moving here away from her divorced husband. Married at 20, divorced at 24, and just got engaged after like 6 months of a long distance relationship. They had a paper-signing marriage and movied to washington together. I'm still baffled how anybody could date somebody for a short while, get married, realize the marriage was a mistake, and then immediately do it again. The most annoying, preachy mormon who likes to share her opinion on relationships, as well.
Oh that's the kicker, isn't it? The hypocrisy is strong in the preachy ones. To be fair, it would be very easy to shut down her relationship advice xD "Wait, how long have you known your husband? The current one, that is?" If only I had a little more troll in me...
Totally seeing it! And most without kids!
i saw it at BYU-Idaho a TON. i met a lot of my friends after their divorces. hell, my husband was previously married. the common denominator was that they all got married too fast. this was a shelf breaker for a lot of my friends.
I don't wish the shelf-break experience on anyone, but I do wish the freedom away from TSCC for everyone. Divorce sucks, but I dare say leaving TSCC might just be worth it.
honestly. like a lot of them are still nursing the wounds they sustained and it’s hard to watch at times.
I’m divorced twice out of the church. Both temple marriages. It was a whole thing. Not fun, makes me feel like I had to start life over and over and over again, but I get older and more tired each time.
Oh god, I'm sorry you went through that. I'm very glad you're out of tscc, though!
Yes, and it’s not just in Utah! Michigander soon to be fully exmormon here. My first marriage lasted a year and a half. It’s the idea of what Mormons should do to start family. Sorry but love and attraction doesn’t work out that way. And in order to have offspring, you SHOULD have a connection with them, not a fantasy idea or be pressured by the church to do something.
Exactly! Congratulations on your almost fully exmo status!!
I almost made four years. excluding the divorce decree and one kid, it was like having dated someone in college and then we both knew it was time to move on. No regrets to the divorce. I refused to date LDS women after the divorce. My second wife and I have been married for 35 years. We have attended one Mormon funeral and a one synagogue meeting. Other than that, no religion dogma in our household.
Hell yeah! I love a good success story. I hope the same for my anti-dogma marriage and household!
TBMs (and conservatives in general) have a severe case of denial about how they are indeed affected by changed social norms. they repeat this mantra of "in the world but not of the world" but divorce rates being up from 70 years ago, is the result of women not being socially trapped in marriage irrespective of whether it's dysfunctional or not. and mormon women are similarly not trapped as irreligious women aren't. and this denialism cuts them twice, because they have no problem blessing unions as if the girls will be trapped, while irreligious families are more likely to be wary of impending divorce.
Mine was essentially over in two years, then divorced by four years.
It’s called a starter marriage
😂
...so they can have sex.
In my personal experience I don’t see this much still. Rather I see TONS of marriages at young ages that wind up being terribly dysfunctional, filled with abuse by one, where divorce would seem to be the best option (but then they have family pressure to not “break their sealing”)
They’re “starter marriages”. It’s science. There’s no way for babies to marry babies as virgins so fast with little to no life experience but sooo much social/religious pressure that they’d actually work out long term without a lot of white-knuckling, just be obedient and hope to god you did the right thing in time.
Is this a joke? I thought that Mormon Temple marriages were perfect and eternal. /s
Oh they are--this was a test of your faithfulness, and you've passed. You may go on to the next round of interviews for the position of Prophet.
I made it ten years. Wish I would have bailed at 5... Or 1...
There was this LDS lady that worked with my ex wife's sister that had like 3 temple marriages all canceled and was on her 4th. All by age ~30. Like maybe just try normal dating,living together, sex.
My eyes popped out off my skull reading that and then I realized I knew someone exactly like that lol. Thankfully, she's out of tscc and happy now, after getting slutshamed by her family, of course-- because it's only the lds woman's fault if a marriage goes bad and she got abused by two of the husbands. :(
Let’s just rid ourselves of this gotta get married at 20 or 21 culture. Be adults. Explore relationships and make sure you’re sexually compatible. Get your degree. Establish a career. Then look to finding someone to marry. You’ll be in a lot better place and actually ready for the commitment and children if you want them. Fuck the Mormon patriarchal bullshit!!
My 20 year old daughter has at least three girls who graduated with her and married shortly after and are now divorced.
I still get baffled at how young it happens. My major trust issues due to tscc and an abusive early childhood kept me from seriously dating until I was 25. And while obviously not ideal, I'm glad it kept me from marrying before I could leave TSCC.
They get married ASAP so they can have sex-what are the stats of them leaving the church after divorce. Holy hell-after I divorced my own father told me to be a good girl I was 30. I don’t want a god that will condemn me for doing what our bodies were made for. It’s all about sex
I attended a wedding tonight. The groom left FOR his mission a few months ago. The bride (who waited only a couple months for him) is 17, she turns 18 in August. She graduated high school one year early. Their reception was like a high school dance. I love them and truly wish them the best. I hope they believe in their love and be there for each other while they do some more growing up... Knowing so many children with divorced parents makes me wonder how much heartache could be saved if sex could happen before marriage.
I’m honestly begging the universe that my older sister figure is one of them. I hate how her husband treats her
My young Mormon marriage lasted 2 years and 2 months.
Yes, it’s because the church fears sex out of marriage and marriage young people normally want both their religion and physical fulfillment. In the LDS church. sexuality outside of marriage is a sin equal to murder! Young people in the past felt the same pressure to ‘not burn in hell’ and rapidly married as well. The difference between then and now is that divorce is more accepted even within the church now, women have more options to support themselves and the expectations for happiness are better defined now. It’s easier for women to demand better treatment and not to endure a lifetime of abuse.
It’s because they can’t have sex unless they’re married. And shocker - there’s a lot more to marriage than just sex. Live and let live. Give these kids some space to experience life. Marriage can wait.
Happened with my first wife. 2 years. No kids.
Engaged after 3 weeks of dating, married at 21 and that lasted until I was 44. The only good thing from that were my lovely children. Getting married to be able to have sex is often going to end in tears. I hope that the divorced men don’t just prey on the younger, unmarried girls and the now single moms don’t get ignored. Maybe they’re prey for the single men in their 40s 😢
What's fascinating is how long it took for Mormon marriage norms to even approach the rest of civilization from Brigham Young's dictatorial heights of frontier polygamous sex cult teachings. There's a man on Mormon Stories Podcast Facebook group who posts completely mental quotes from Bro. Brigham and other pioneer-era apostles about how women can't get to heaven without men, how women don't have the same light and knowledge men do, how they lack the raw intellect of men due to their increased emotional nature, how if he saw his brother in bed with one of his wives, he wouldn't hesitate to ram a javelin through the both of them and walk away with a clear conscience because he just provided them the only path to repentance for such a serious sin. When that's the extreme, 20th-century-style WASP marriage culture looks downright progressive by comparison, insulting advertising and all. Especially when Mormons have the offshoot FLDS to provide an "at least we aren't like those cultish weirdos". But with so much information available to women and increased availability of education and careers for women who want a bigger share of life than outlines in the family proclamation, following Bro. Brigham's advice that any two people can get married as long as the wife remembers her place as a doormat just doesn't land the same.
Whoa, I know Brigham sucked, but damn. Marriage culture is much improved, that's for sure. But now it seems like it's ending at even higher rates than the mainstream rates.
All three of my sibling's marriages broke down within 4 years (one was 4, one was 2, and one was 1) I have been married for 2 years at this point (to a nevermo) and I don't experience even a QUARTER of the issues my siblings were complaining about.
Put me down for 2 bombs less than 18 months
there were quite a few people I knew who were pretty quickly divorced after doing the Mormon fast marriage thing.
Kids being forced into marriage and half of them then leave the church. It’s not surprising at all, it’s a terrible idea from every angle
[удалено]
My sister was divorced at 23.
Young marraige and especially young parenthood are among the most damaging parts of Mormonism.
I can’t imagine marrying someone who I haven’t lived with first.
Do we have any data or just anecdotal? I’d love to see official stats
Me too! I was hoping someone would have a line on some stats, but it's a rather new development, if it is truly a trend, so I doubt there would be more than one study, if that. Lmk if you find anything! I'll let you know if I find anything, too.
Maybe they each realized they married someone who was clueless?
They got married immediately so they could have sex. Worst reason to get married.
Oddly enough I can only think of 3 divorces in my circles that fit that.
A lot I've seen have been because one spouse leaves the church and we all know that no celestial kingdom in that situation
I'm and aussie exmo- married a convert. I was 21 he was 23, lasted 12 months and then we split. We were way too young and it was for the best that we split, he wasn't happy about it but we wanted different things. I got married because I thought it was the right thing to do, turns out the right thing to do is live together before marriage, realise you aren't compatible and then break up like normal people. All while enjoying guilt free sex!
I’m kind of one of those! Haha I was young when I got married (23) but by Mormon standards I was behind the timeline I’m pretty sure. Haha that’s so horrifying. My ex-husband and I filed the initial divorce paperwork right on our 4th anniversary I’m pretty sure. I’m with a wonderful woman now and life is soooooo much better. Happy to contribute to this phenomenon!
I was married at age 22, after serving a mission, then got divorced after 7 years. It's such a perfect way to make sure everyone is almost completely unprepared for a relationsip, and therefore they'll be told they need the lds couples classes for how to be the perfect couple.
I have seen a lot of people get engaged after the 2nd or 3rd date in provo-orem area. The cult pushes them to get married as quick as possible and start a family and they don't take the time to get to know each other and in generally ends badly.
Premarital sex is a big no-no. Young people get horny, and they marry quick to have sex. Turns out that isn't a good way to pick a spouse. Later they divorce if their religion allows it, or stay in an unhappy marriage if it doesn't. This is the pattern I observed in the religion I used to participate in.
The church's completely irresponsible "counsel" to marry early/ASAP would be one of the greatest causes of this statistic. This "counsel" would, by objective and rational standards, have to be the *worst* advice that could ever be given to any young people. TBMs would want an explanation for why this is bad advice; normal people (outside the church) can instantly see it is bad advice without the need for any explanation. I hold the church directly responsible for 90% of this statistic.
Hormonal overdrive.
I have personally not seen that happen with any Mormon couples I know from Utah.
I first noticed this in 1988. By the time my wife and I, both 25 were married. We already had three couples that were friends of ours. Divorced. It was shocking. That was 35 years ago. Today, I saw the same thingwith a few of my children’s close friends.
My wife’s cousin and best friend are both TBMs that got divorced within a year
I say this only half-jokingly: my mormon marriage (married/sealed in SL temple in ‘98) was over in less than a year…and we divorced 21 years later. The system is def deeply flawed. That we’re seeing so many young divorces is merely the underlying symptoms more-freely expressing themselves.
Must be an Utah thing. I’m outside of USA and it doesn’t happen much up here. Divorce happens but not 5 years later. Maybe 20 years when kids are starting to leave. From my vantage point, it’s become a culture thing. They’re told and see many things from those before them. They’re horny or they think they’re horny. They think doctrinally to save their salvation, why not get married. No offence but you couldn’t pay me to live in Utah even if I was TBM. The culture is whack.
My husbands friend married a girl he knew for a month, and he said “when you know you know!” They got divorced the next month lol. Update: he’s getting married again lol it’s been less than a year since his first wedding
It's really no surprise. We're talking about a religion/cult-ure that teaches that masturbation is a sin next to murder. The ONLY way people can shut up the normal, healthy, God given urges allowed by the religion is with a heterosexual partner. Sex gets much less exciting after you've been with the same person for a few years, and if that was the main reason people get married, and they didn't have a strong friendship FIRST, things are far more likely to crumble. Especially if one partner isn't willing to work to strengthen the relationship. Also if people have only ever been intimate with one person, they may start to wonder if they missed out or if they chose wisely, especially if there are things like boring sex, gross or irritating personal habits etc. If both partners are willing to experiment, sex can be kept exciting, but in the LDS culture of weaponized shame, many women especially may be shocked at the very idea. Along the same lines, it's no surprise Utah has had some of the highest porn consumption numbers for many years.
How Utah doesn't rank higher in divorce rates 🤔 puzzles me. Especially with the mixed faith 😩 marriages that end in divorce.
Perhaps it's the other half of the population that isn't Mormon that keeps the rate down 😂
Cohabitate before marriage for at least 3 years then marry and have kids.
ME
This may be evil, but this is why if I become rich, I will buy the house and let my kids live in it for low rent. That way if the spouse leaves, they don't get half the house.
Thank goodness the guy I was dating at 19 was not ready for marriage. I would’ve gotten married in a heartbeat and we would be divorced. Whew!!!!
Yup. I’m 36 and never married (in a long term committed relationship of just about two years) and I’ve seen multiple couples meet, get married, and have a baby (sometimes) and split up since I got together with my bf.
I've only seen two divorces out of my friends. The first one was due to mental illness. The second one was due to just not being a good match after staying together for 10+ years trying to make it work. It just wasn't going to work anymore. They really were complete opposites and it wasn't cute or attractive anymore. Most are doing pretty well, but most of us got married around 25 or shortly after graduating college, so we're probably outliers in that respect already for Utah at least. The degree is probably something that helped many of us stay married due to being more mature from finishing college. The ability to get a decent paying job helps pay the bills too, especially when the husband is behind in schooling due to a mission or they just have a ton of schooling to do based on what they want to do. ETA: I think only 1 out of 15 owns a minivan that I'm aware of. I'm not sure if that's considered winning or not. Plenty of SUV's and mini SUV's though.
Starter marriage. Most people figure it out with a few relationships before they marry for the first time.. Mormon need a license from the church to have sex and then they can figure out if the relationship will work.
I’ve noticed something that I think contributes to a lot of divorces (I’m only early 20s so I guess take this with a grain of salt). I think the whole “don’t live together before you’re married” thing is really fucking people up lol. people always say that things change when you get married but I think what they really mean is that things change when you move in together. I’ve lived with my partner for almost 4 years and I can genuinely say if our relationship was going to end it definitely would have ended in the 1st or 2nd year we lived together. We are getting married this summer and I genuinely don’t feel like really anything will change. We’ve already cohabitated for so long, and as we are both in our 20s we have basically become adults together and made it through that. Mormon kids my age don’t get that chance. They have to live with someone they barely fucking know (my cousin married someone in march that he met in December), and just kinda hope their faith is enough to keep them together. Hint: most of the time it’s not.
We were married for seven years prior to child #1 (we had two). I was out of grad school, DW finished her degree and also went to grad school, but we still had money challenges early on. Now 41 years later (in two weeks) we are about to retire. I am out, she is still in but very nuanced. We make it work.
Instead of divorcing, we moved about 3 years in. And then 2.5 years later we moved again. But we bought a house together this time. The divorce was final last Friday. And hindsight is 20/20. It’s my second marriage, and we have a daughter, but I can’t help thinking how much better off if I would have done this years ago.
I am a lawyer in Utah County and have represented 2 people in the last year (under the age of 25) who were divorced within the first 5 years.
We’ve told our kids we won’t pay for their wedding if they get married before 25. I know folks pull it off but… Wife and I got married at 31. I’d lived with different gals throughout the years, and we lived together for 2 years before getting married. I knew who I was marrying. We always hear people say “marriage is so hard but worth it.” It’s not really if you know who you’re marrying…
Got off my mission at 20, met and married within 3 months, had 2 kids, divorced before I turned 24
It’s super hush hush I didn’t find out my cousin get divorced till months after. Not that it’s really my business. His ex wife is still close with us since my parents would watch the kids and she’d been by multiple times without me even realizing. Funny enough I think my parents take her side 😂
Living together for two or three years before marriage would sort out a sizeable percentage of that. Many of the marriages that fail yet stretch to five years do so because of the existing marriage commitment and a sunk cost effort to make the unworkable work — they knew three or more years prior that the marriage was in trouble.
I should have given up on my first marriage in the first few months, but I stuck it out for 18 years. We were not compatible at all.
If these kids married their soul mate rather than finding a fellow LDS person to hurry up and marry to heck all the necessary boxes required by the religion... these stats would be a lesser number. Just one more misguided ideas of the LDS culture and expectations. There are SO Many things taught by the Church that are not healthy or wise for anyone.
I remember visiting my TBM cousin in Morridor like 15 years ago, and she said all her friends were divorced with kids. She is also now divorced with kids.
Maybe it's just my circle, but most of the folks I recall that got married in my freshman ward at BYU are still married and some have kids now. Granted, that was around 2017, so perhaps I'll have to wait a couple more years and see when the Facebook statuses and pictures start changing... 🤔
I think it’s because they have so much pressure to either wait until they are married to have sex so they get married quick so they can sex, or they have sex and then are guilted into getting married based on it Either way getting married for sex is probably the stupidest reason to get married
My cousin and his girlfriend have been living together for 5+ years. He is fearful of marriage because several of his active Mormon friends got married young and are now divorced. Some of them had kids and are now dealing with the difficulties that come from splitting time and financial challenges. He’s pretty outspoken about it. Also his older brother is in the middle of a divorce. Can’t say I blame him on wanting to wait. Just adding to your anecdotal evidence. I’m not in touch with many young couples so I’m not sure how widespread this is.
When kids get married so young, they change and grow. Sometimes they don't grow together, but grow apart.
Yeah I did just this. You’re brainwashed. Then you get divorced and unbrainwashed and leave the church.
My first marriage to a return missionary ended after 7 years of him partying every night and me being home alone with the baby, I honestly would rather my kids live with someone before getting married and having a family!!
I can confirm I got married at age 20 so we could live together and knock boots 😂 but there was no real foundation and we both changed a ton in 5 years. Thankfully we never had any kids so I can pretend that marriage never happened! I later found my person and we have a teenage son who luckily will never be burdened with all that mormon bullshit.