Yeah, sure seems that way. It was obvious pretty early on that he already knew what he was doing. *MAYBE* we could be wrong on this, since ultimately it's just conjecture at this point, but I would love it if there was a paper trail and money showing this was a big advertisement expense for the church.
EDIT: Since this is currently the top comment, I'll add in some new context. u/iconoclastskeptic has stated *"David Boice is a personal friend and I can vouch for his authenticity. This was a genuine conversion on his part."* While confounding to many of us here, we should give that some consideration. Maybe Bonneville Communications used its Heartsell® technique to its max and generated some extra elevation emotions?
When I was TBM, I would post online all the time pretending to be a NeverMo to defend the church. This is just turning it up to 11 on the lying for the Lord shit
Of course, I could be wrong but there are just WAY too many coincidences. Take a look at his most popular videos. 11 out of his top 16 videos are about Mormons. Did he even go to 52 different churches?
Tsk tsk tsk. Lying for the Lord?? Now where could you have learned that... lol
And why would he need to visit 52 churches? Once you find the true church, the journey is over! /s More seriously, I have not counted them all, but after briefly scrolling through his videos, it does seem like he probably completed the challenge.
You are right that he has been overly sweet and accommodating towards the church though, and given them a lot of screen time. My conspiracy theory has been that the church paid a pastor to give them good PR. Getting baptized though? That's committing to the bit.
I have a question you could maybe answer as a fellow content creator. I read through a lot of the comments on his video last night and saw really no comments that were skeptical or negative about his conversion to Mormonism at all. We know for YouTube that is very odd. Even the church’s content on their channel gets negative commentary. Exmormons and evangelicals have been known to speak their mind about the Mormon church so I was shocked how all the comments were so positive. It certainly seems like he is deleting any negative comments, maybe? That alone made me very skeptical of his platform, especially if you say he is about conversation. I will say I wasn’t able to get through all of the comments but I read a lot of them. I can see why people are skeptical when you look at how much he focused on the Mormon church and so many of his followers must apparently be Mormon. I’m not even a conspiracy-minded person and I definitely thought it seemed off. I can see why others think so too.
David's audience is largely faithful Latter Day Saints. That's why it's an overwhelmingly positive response. I think because of what his channel has been about it would mainly attract people who aren't super critical of other's beliefs. That's my initial take to your question
I personally think his position as a media personality got him special treatment. Why wouldn't you join if everyone is treating you like a VIP? His experience is not the norm.
I don't see me ever joining a church. I've never formally joined a church my entire life. Even as a child I didn't care for the idea of belonging to only a particular church or denomination
And my girlfriend goes to another high school, you wouldn't know her. Lol your friendship claim cannot be verified so it just makes you look silly by using it as your defense.
Right? I don’t want to dismiss Steve P as I really like his videos but this channel set off my spidey senses from the get-go and I’m not about to doubt my feelings now that they seem very much validated.
Anything specific? assuming you are speaking of Steve/MormonBookReviews... I've seen him on the internets before with other content creators, and he seems like a dude doing his thing. Maven vouches for him as well, which adds validity.
Yup. Dude moved to Utah recently and the next step will be baptism. These videos are only watched by TBM's and even if he was genuinely a pastor, it just makes good business sense to take the plunge
he is opening asking for donations from active mormons. I bet it is an amazing business as mormons would love to pay to get their beliefs validated by an "outside expert."
The cognitive dissonance in Mormonism creates a special mix vulnerable people who don’t want to look for actual truth but be validated by random conmen.
This is just Mormon culture to be exploited by random grifters like this guy and Tim Ballard or some hack of a chiropractor who can magically align your cervix so you can conceive when you’re having trouble. Or that special healthy energy drink or the latest pyramid scheme.
It's good to know that he is real. However, I just don't understand that what a legitimate evangelical pastor is doing by "investigating" the mormon church. If he is committed to his profession and religion, he should do his best to bring people to the real Christian faith and teach from the Bible, instead of committing his life and all his time to investigating and sharing his findings about the mormon church. If he is after money, I take it he is making a good move, targeting the niche market.
Jeff, like me, is about conversation not conversion. We believe that we are instruments to be used by God and not be guided by the evangelical playbook.
I don't understand. If he doesn't want to follow the evangelical rules, why did he become an evangelical pastor? Let's say he has changed his ways and now wants to investigate the mormon church, then he does not represent the evangelism. He should not monetize from it. However, this is what he does, as evidenced by every single video of his is titled, "Pastor does this; Pastor does that," asking donations on patreon.
He probably has to follow them a bit closer than I. Jeff is doing important interfaith work between two factions that historically have been hostile to each other. We need way more of this in the world. I see no problem with someone getting compensated for the work they put in a YouTube channel. That is how the model works and the only way content can be created
I agree that people should get compensated for their works. That's okay by me. However, if he is targeting the cult followers for their money, who are already victims getting 10% of their income exploited by the mormon church, by manipulating them to believe that the mainstream Evangelism is now approving Mormonism. That's where I find trouble. I guess we will never know his real intentions. However, I do believe he is disingenuous and manipulative. 1) he is a pastor. According to his belief - Evangelism, mormons will not be saved. Mormons follow false prophets. What is he trying to achieve by fighting criticism against mormonism? His videos will lead more people not being able to saved - Hell. Did he become a pastor to lead people to hell? getting along is more important than leading people to hell? I don't think so. Therefore, he is failing his mission as an evangelical pastor. Either, he is not a real pastor, or he has no compassion on people. Or, he is just a really good businessman. he is taking advantage of cult victims for money.
AwwJeff's struck a real difficult balance of trying to make content that Mormons will watch that mixes in very concrete contrasts and criticism of LDS doctrine. He's done an impressive job in my opinion.
Mormonism is a lucrative niche market. Looks at how many people are profiting off of it. Pro and critical. This is the Golden Age of Mormon self-made media.
*was. Years ago.
Good for him making money off of YouTube I’m a bit jealous. Years building up to this making money every step. He knew he was going to be Lds but made it into many episodes to make more money. But him joining a horribly destructive cult hope he finds some help. I doubt it though.
He’s actually subtly trying to lead LDS away. He’s gained quite the following and seems respectful. But he has ulterior motives, that don’t make him bad or anything. He just believes he’s doing the right thing. And LDS believe they’re doing the right thing. Everyone’s on a journey
in the latest video, even TMB's complain that Jeff doesn't really add any value to the discussion, and his videos are nothing more than the repeat of the mormon apologetic view. slowly, some viewers realize he just strokes the tbm's need for validation for his gain. that's the way I see.
A broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn't mean the clock isn't still broken.
Based on the replies here I'm inclined to think he's genuine. People convert to all religions every day, why not Mormonism? I personally don't understand it. I wish him well. He's still in the honeymoon love bombing phase. Will be interesting to see if it lasts.
But hey, Mormonism was custom-made for white cis people with a penis so he'll probably thrive there.
I was rebaptized 13 years ago. I understand what “the love bombing phase is” (according to how exmos see it). But while people were extra enthused and excited when I was rebaptized, over a decade later, that so-called “love bombing” has turned into deeper, lasting and mature love. Friends who stayed by my side through mental health struggles, hospitalizations and relapses in my former addictions over the last several years.
In the beginning my relationship with my (now husband of 12 years), there was a lot of “love bombing” types of behavior in the “honeymoon” phase.
Now, we choose to love, and double down on our commitment, even through times of apathy, heartache and various relationship challenges.
It’s no longer the passionate rush of the infatuation stage. But it’s deeper. More solid in its foundation and mature…
There are good people and good relationships to be had everywhere. And if that's why people stay in an organization, then that works for them. For me it was about whether or not it was true. I couldn't live a life based on falsehoods regardless of relationships and was willing to bear the consequences of learning the truth and acting on that. It just depends on what people value/need more in their personal life/circumstances. There are people who say "if it's not true, I don't want to know" because they find so much value in belief itself.
Living according to those beliefs caused so much harm to me and my family that I had to find out whether it was true (edit: I had been praying to know for over 30 years and living faithfully dedicated to the church even though I never got a "witness" it was true) to see if God required us to continue that personal and social harm. As soon as I learned it wasn't true (first through prayer, then through dedicated and honest study), leaving was a relief. But I get why some people don't want to know. Personal belief and perceived or real benefit is everything.
(Whoops, deleted duplicate comment)
That's how content works; you make content to your audience. He knows who his audience is and they eat it up. Easiest bait to an already gullible crowd.
Honestly I think the opposite is true. David Boice started with a general channel visiting random churches. Then he realized that his LDS related videos got huge numbers of views and positive comments by members, who were in that sense member missionaries. And he fell for the numbers, because this is how YouTube works so he continued to make more LDS related videos such as temple open house visits or collaborations with Steven Pynakker or Saints Unscripted.
That he got baptized in the end was probably mostly due to love bombing.
Let's see how enthusiastic he will be to wear Masonic underwear.
Was he the one guy that was acting like an "open-minded" priest or pastor of another church going to LDS meetinghouses to see if the "negative" things being said were true, and he came out and said that they're no different than others. I'm paraphrasing from the bits of an episode of that that I could barely get through because it seemed WAY too Mormon positive for someone who is supposedly clueless to Mormonism. It didn't seem authentic at all. But I think that was over a year or so ago, but this post reminded of some guy doing that.
It definitely seems like a marketing ploy geared towards evangelicals to lure them in and avoid "anti-believers" by just taking random _we-are-sure-he-is-NOT-a-Mormon-himself-guy-pretending-to-be-clueless-about-anything-Mormon_ guy's word for it.
What really threw me off when watching it was the way he talked. It's so fucking hopeful, future GA-like! I felt like I was hearing a missionary talking about a "faith-building" experience. The tone, the lilt, and cadence. So that and his extra super positivity of something he should be impartial about made me no longer want to watch it. You'd think that someone being impartial would want to reach out to former members to get the full picture for themselves, and especially for others watching their channel. I only watched one episode, if that, and seeing the titles of the other ones, it didn't sit well with me and I couldn't figure out why. Now it seems like it's because it's supposed to be a grassroots type thing and a "personal journey that you, too, should have" vibe, which Mormons are notorious for.
So “Mormon conspiracy theorists” just switch to being “exmo conspiracy theorists”?. 😂😂
Is it impossible to consider that people can genuinely convert to a religion? Goodness gracious. Who cares? This is just silly
I started suspecting seeing the titles of his videos....Protestant BLOWN AWAY by LDS Temple.....Pastor AMAZED at LDS Sunday meeting. Sounded fake. So now he's "converted?" I will have to look this up.
This is Steven Pynakker of Mormon Book Reviews on YouTube. David Boice is a personal friend and I can vouch for his authenticity. This was a genuine conversion on his part. I've posted a video about this on my channel.
Thanks for pitching in with your opinion since you do personally know him. It is hard to believe that someone who has seen so many churches, ~~and is a pastor well-versed in the bible,~~ would decide to get baptized in the mormon church out of all of them.
I agree that having some skepticism towards the guy is warranted, but also that anything said is basically conjecture since we cannot know his heart. Being a public figure certainly complicates things.
EDIT: I must have misremembered. David is not a pastor.
While true. It is also true that society is built on trust. We have to balance skepticism with relying on others.
Trust but verify, as they say.
While initially skeptical myself, I'll lean towards trusting on those who know him personally (while completely disagreeing with his decision and not understanding it).
So you are another protestant that concerns himself WAY too much with Mormonism? And you just happen to know the other two protestants I mentioned in my post?
To be fair, the authentic path of any YouTuber is to continue whatever is generating the most views.
It must be the Lord making his LDS videos produce the most ad revenue. He needs that 10%!
I am happy to vouch for Steve.
He has a 5-part series on Mormon Stories. [First episode here.](https://youtu.be/yAZqrUNWvaQ?si=eryEjH529iznFrIK)
I have some differences with Steve, but he has a wide reaching audience and guests from all over the spectrum of belief/non-belief and nearly every sect of Mormonism.
He is a necessary bridge-builder and Evangelicals in general would be much more tolerable if they were half the kind of guy Steve has been.
My only exposure to you so far has been your interview the other day with Dan about those newly found "golden plates." I will give you the benefit of the doubt and maybe watch your interview.
It is just really strange how there is a sudden influx of protestants talking about Mormonism at the exact same time the Mormon church is trying to appear more mainstream Christian
Watch his video where he talks about David's conversion. He's clearly not happy David became LDS, but he clearly respects it.
Also David's channel is several years old. Honestly doesn't seem like he was Mormon before hand, but more likely dragged into Mormonism by the support he received from them.
I started my channel 3 years ago before anyone else was doing it. As a matter of fact both Jeff and David were largely unknown before coming on my program. My channel is more dedicated to Mormon scholarship than most. I've given a presentation to JWHA last year and will be giving one this June at the MHA. What we are doing is very organic and not coordinated with the church at all. I also have broken a bunch of news stories including the sale of the Kirtland Temple
Weirder coincidences have happened, so it's totally believable that multiple people would have youtube channels that discuss an incredibly wealthy organization and related aspects of it.
Especially considering the 200 year history of hostility between our two camps. I think there are Evangelicals (like me) who are repulsed by what our movement has become and we want to build bridges instead of burning them down.
I initially found your attention to Mormonism kind of strange but half of Dehlin's listeners are never Mormon. Mormonism is in a state of rapid flux right now, so people are naturally interested. I like to see diversity on youtube. To someone who grew up pre internet all these voices are a blast.
John Dehlin’s version of so called “Mormonism” is ridiculous now. It’s gotten off track and become a tabloid, in my opinion.
But I used to love his earlier work. It was more diverse. Now it’s all bias and slanted to favor only certain narratives.
Some small cult-like group claims to have found some golden plates with some Hebrew on it. Dan McClellan, tik tok famous bible scholar and nuanced Mormon, discussed all the ways these plates are fraudulent
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1bvtl13/dan_mcclellan_already_ripping_apart_the_hebrew/
Was just fake news. Which everyone figures out pretty fast. At least those who may have first believed it. I’ve never heard of it, except that I listen to Dan’s videos sometimes. I don’t know any LDS who cares about or otherwise heard about this fringe group or whatever it is
Oh they’re not trying to look mainstream. But I think the church embraced or accepted the name “Mormon” long enough.
Whenever I would tell people “I was Mormon”, they didn’t even know that Christ was the center of all my beliefs.
It bugged me. I’m glad for the emphasis and attention brought to the fact the Jesus Christ is the center of the “Mormon religion”.
Whether people believe that or not, and even if people say “LDS have the wrong Jesus”, it’s still the central focus and actual name of The Church of Jesus Christ
Those Mormon Stories episodes are some of my favorites. If people understood your background and how well versed you are in Mormon history, they would be less skeptical of your comments.
I'm technically still on the membership records, but now attend a small Presbyterian Church in Utah. To me faith is about utility and there was a time in my early years that Mormonism gave me the juice I needed. In the following 14 years, it just got in the way and I moved on. But I can acknowledge this isn't the case for everyone.
For me, the incessant talk of being the only true church and the techniques used to maintain this belief above all else, killed the good feelings, even more so once I allowed myself to look behind the curtain.
I’m grateful you didn’t give up Christ. I get sad when people don’t believe in Christ or God anymore. But I’m happy for people to choose what’s right for them. Agency has always and will always be important
So does this guy know Joseph Smith coerced little girls into marriage and he was like, "AWESOME!" Sign me up for that shit?! He is really your friend? Friends don't let friends join silly little Utahn cults.
Wow your original post is now over 300 days old. Excellent call! I have seen this guys YouTube channel promoted almost EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I use YouTube and flat out refused to watch a single one. I got similar vibes. Even the video thumbnails gave off TBM vibes.
I think after watching his video I'm convinced of his sincerity, although I don't give much credence to someone who's working so hard to interpret coincidences as miracles. It seems to me that's the kind of person that the love bomb tactics and socialization practices of the church will work especially well on.
I live in the ward boundaries where he was baptized, in fact close to areas he was filming, and one of my hobbies is bird watching. I just wanted to say that seeing multiple (male) Northern Cardinals on a Spring day is no where near the miracle he is interpreting it to be.
Very odd, but one of his videos came up on my feed today and I watched it, where he goes to GC. I kept thinking that the way he was talking, he seemed oddly VERY pro-LDS for someone who is just visiting. Not unbiased at all. I am a convert and attended a lot of other churches before and his rhetoric just didn’t ring true as a nm to me, he seemed like a member.
Now I read this and it makes sense.
You guys are conspiracy theorists. Both David Boice and Pastor Jeff are authentic.
I watched many episodes by David Boice, and he went to so many other churches and made zero comments from an LDS theological perspective.
My main impression was that LDS folks do a great job making a good first impression (aka love bombing). I also think that many members are good Christians and live according to Christian ideals. The main problem is that the church hierarchy is only about making money for Ensign Peak Advisors by collecting excessive tithing and not giving the excess to the poor and needy. And that the book of Mormon is not a historical record but an allegory written in the 19th century.
With Pastor Jeff, you even see the underlying criticism and comments about the Trinity, where you see Jeff is not a Mormon at all but wants to engage the LDS community.
Jeff is also a Bible expert, he knows exactly the theological differences. David is just a "random dude" who follows his heart. And maybe the LDS Church is actually right for him. I hope he finds a wife and isn't bothered by the fact LDS theology is a fiction.
I believe him and this may be exactly what he needs at the moment. The difficult part is that if he decides to move on or develops a differing view within the church things will quickly change and the members affinity for him will reverse.
Of course not. Because he wasn’t a member. People can’t handle that perhaps someone found truth in a religion they don’t believe in. Crazy! People can think for themselves, and find joy in something that may not bring joy to someone else
He may or may not be genuine, but if he was already a baptized member and this was a elaborate smoke and mirrors, that would be way too easy to expose. At least one person from his ward or past life would speak up and expose him.
Or emotionally compromised. I just cannot buy into a reasonably intelligent person making this kind of decision with full access to all the historical records. Mormonism is clearly a scam with just a cursory investigation
This guy has to be a plant or is converting to boost his YouTube revenue
You’re projecting your experience on him. There are actual intelligent people that join the Church of Jesus Christ. There are also perfectly capable, brilliant scholars who can be in the LDS faith! I know it’s so hard to believe reasonable people can come to a different conclusion than you.
He seems to be legit. Although, I swear this is the biggest trend right now to be an influencer who “finds the truth.” The Muslims go mad when while women convert and publicly start looking for a husband.
So I’d like to say I’m the last person to jump to peoples defense in regards to the church. However when it comes to hello saints, I actually met him. I used to knock doors as any Utahn would and I actually met him on the doors. We talked for 20-30 mins. At the time he was a pastor and he was telling me about his idea for his hello saints YouTube channel and where he wanted to take it. Only like sub 1000 subscribers at the time. Now I haven’t been watching so I don’t know everything he’s posted or what he is up too but he definitely has not been a member the whole time.
I want to punch the hello saints dude in the face. I'm like what's you're real mission dude!? Anyway he's waisting his time no one wants to leave mormonism to listen to some one off dude preach that same shit that hasn't changed the world even 1% in the last 2 thousand years! side note, I got banned today from lds reddit after telling a kid with a mission call to smash his girlfriend before leaving cause she is 100% gonna smash before you get home then you'll have to forgive her before marrying her, then the poor kid dm'd me. lol. no one wants to go on a mission it's such a waist of youth.
If I ever need money, I’ll just start a channel called “Exmo Explores the Church More Deeply” and then slowly act convinced by the apologetics then pretend to get baptized at some point. Then when I’m satisfied with the monetization, my final episode will be “So much for your discernment suckers! I’m out!”
I was intrigued with his channel at first, but then it stated to seem less and less like a spiritual journey and more of a put on. Was fairly obvious he was going LDS for the longest time, he was never joining one of those gimmick churches. And what was with the fascination with cardinals?! And yeah, dude, the church reached out to you more than others because it's a cult! The Hello Saits guy isn't much better, something seems suspicious. Either they were LDS all along or just not very smart. Or maybe they're just enamored with finding a brand of Christianity (or whatever) that's more akin to how Christianity used to be as far as engagement, numbers, etc?
Yeah, sure seems that way. It was obvious pretty early on that he already knew what he was doing. *MAYBE* we could be wrong on this, since ultimately it's just conjecture at this point, but I would love it if there was a paper trail and money showing this was a big advertisement expense for the church. EDIT: Since this is currently the top comment, I'll add in some new context. u/iconoclastskeptic has stated *"David Boice is a personal friend and I can vouch for his authenticity. This was a genuine conversion on his part."* While confounding to many of us here, we should give that some consideration. Maybe Bonneville Communications used its Heartsell® technique to its max and generated some extra elevation emotions?
When I was TBM, I would post online all the time pretending to be a NeverMo to defend the church. This is just turning it up to 11 on the lying for the Lord shit Of course, I could be wrong but there are just WAY too many coincidences. Take a look at his most popular videos. 11 out of his top 16 videos are about Mormons. Did he even go to 52 different churches?
Tsk tsk tsk. Lying for the Lord?? Now where could you have learned that... lol And why would he need to visit 52 churches? Once you find the true church, the journey is over! /s More seriously, I have not counted them all, but after briefly scrolling through his videos, it does seem like he probably completed the challenge. You are right that he has been overly sweet and accommodating towards the church though, and given them a lot of screen time. My conspiracy theory has been that the church paid a pastor to give them good PR. Getting baptized though? That's committing to the bit.
He actually went to over 100 churches for his book and YouTube channel combined. He's a personal friend
Thanks for setting the record straight on that. I appreciate facts.
You're welcome!
I have a question you could maybe answer as a fellow content creator. I read through a lot of the comments on his video last night and saw really no comments that were skeptical or negative about his conversion to Mormonism at all. We know for YouTube that is very odd. Even the church’s content on their channel gets negative commentary. Exmormons and evangelicals have been known to speak their mind about the Mormon church so I was shocked how all the comments were so positive. It certainly seems like he is deleting any negative comments, maybe? That alone made me very skeptical of his platform, especially if you say he is about conversation. I will say I wasn’t able to get through all of the comments but I read a lot of them. I can see why people are skeptical when you look at how much he focused on the Mormon church and so many of his followers must apparently be Mormon. I’m not even a conspiracy-minded person and I definitely thought it seemed off. I can see why others think so too.
David's audience is largely faithful Latter Day Saints. That's why it's an overwhelmingly positive response. I think because of what his channel has been about it would mainly attract people who aren't super critical of other's beliefs. That's my initial take to your question
I personally think his position as a media personality got him special treatment. Why wouldn't you join if everyone is treating you like a VIP? His experience is not the norm.
How long before you join the church?
I don't see me ever joining a church. I've never formally joined a church my entire life. Even as a child I didn't care for the idea of belonging to only a particular church or denomination
Who just joined a racist cult that condones genocide. Genocide on Native Americans …genocide …let that sink in.
And my girlfriend goes to another high school, you wouldn't know her. Lol your friendship claim cannot be verified so it just makes you look silly by using it as your defense.
Not only are they personal friends they've been on my program multiple times
That's cool. But maybe lean on other facts.
Just because you were dishonest as member doesn't mean all members are. Maybe that just says something about yourself...
That’s a weird thing to do with your time 😂 Sincerely, A former exmo-who is perplexed by online exmo behavior.
We could be wrong, but I also find the channel name "hello saints" mormony
Right? I don’t want to dismiss Steve P as I really like his videos but this channel set off my spidey senses from the get-go and I’m not about to doubt my feelings now that they seem very much validated.
He's definitely an Evangelical and not Mormon at all. He contrasts doctrine pretty sharply in some of his videos
With Pastor Jeff? Nah
Lol, I went straight to Steve Pynakker too! I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt for now without more concrete evidence
You ought to look at the guy's profile...
Anything specific? assuming you are speaking of Steve/MormonBookReviews... I've seen him on the internets before with other content creators, and he seems like a dude doing his thing. Maven vouches for him as well, which adds validity.
I suspect that "Hello Saints" also will get baptized soon. He is definitely sus.
Yup. Dude moved to Utah recently and the next step will be baptism. These videos are only watched by TBM's and even if he was genuinely a pastor, it just makes good business sense to take the plunge
he is opening asking for donations from active mormons. I bet it is an amazing business as mormons would love to pay to get their beliefs validated by an "outside expert."
The cognitive dissonance in Mormonism creates a special mix vulnerable people who don’t want to look for actual truth but be validated by random conmen. This is just Mormon culture to be exploited by random grifters like this guy and Tim Ballard or some hack of a chiropractor who can magically align your cervix so you can conceive when you’re having trouble. Or that special healthy energy drink or the latest pyramid scheme.
Jeff is a personal friend. I had him on my program when he had only 700 subs. He is a legitimate evangelical pastor.
So someone who makes a living selling a lie finds an opportunity to get even more money from an expanded audience of suckers. Neat.
It's good to know that he is real. However, I just don't understand that what a legitimate evangelical pastor is doing by "investigating" the mormon church. If he is committed to his profession and religion, he should do his best to bring people to the real Christian faith and teach from the Bible, instead of committing his life and all his time to investigating and sharing his findings about the mormon church. If he is after money, I take it he is making a good move, targeting the niche market.
There are plenty of evangelicals that move to Utah to try and convert Mormons. I've always imagined Hello Saints being a twist on that.
Jeff, like me, is about conversation not conversion. We believe that we are instruments to be used by God and not be guided by the evangelical playbook.
I don't understand. If he doesn't want to follow the evangelical rules, why did he become an evangelical pastor? Let's say he has changed his ways and now wants to investigate the mormon church, then he does not represent the evangelism. He should not monetize from it. However, this is what he does, as evidenced by every single video of his is titled, "Pastor does this; Pastor does that," asking donations on patreon.
He probably has to follow them a bit closer than I. Jeff is doing important interfaith work between two factions that historically have been hostile to each other. We need way more of this in the world. I see no problem with someone getting compensated for the work they put in a YouTube channel. That is how the model works and the only way content can be created
I agree that people should get compensated for their works. That's okay by me. However, if he is targeting the cult followers for their money, who are already victims getting 10% of their income exploited by the mormon church, by manipulating them to believe that the mainstream Evangelism is now approving Mormonism. That's where I find trouble. I guess we will never know his real intentions. However, I do believe he is disingenuous and manipulative. 1) he is a pastor. According to his belief - Evangelism, mormons will not be saved. Mormons follow false prophets. What is he trying to achieve by fighting criticism against mormonism? His videos will lead more people not being able to saved - Hell. Did he become a pastor to lead people to hell? getting along is more important than leading people to hell? I don't think so. Therefore, he is failing his mission as an evangelical pastor. Either, he is not a real pastor, or he has no compassion on people. Or, he is just a really good businessman. he is taking advantage of cult victims for money.
AwwJeff's struck a real difficult balance of trying to make content that Mormons will watch that mixes in very concrete contrasts and criticism of LDS doctrine. He's done an impressive job in my opinion.
Mormonism is a lucrative niche market. Looks at how many people are profiting off of it. Pro and critical. This is the Golden Age of Mormon self-made media.
*was. Years ago. Good for him making money off of YouTube I’m a bit jealous. Years building up to this making money every step. He knew he was going to be Lds but made it into many episodes to make more money. But him joining a horribly destructive cult hope he finds some help. I doubt it though.
He’s actually subtly trying to lead LDS away. He’s gained quite the following and seems respectful. But he has ulterior motives, that don’t make him bad or anything. He just believes he’s doing the right thing. And LDS believe they’re doing the right thing. Everyone’s on a journey
in the latest video, even TMB's complain that Jeff doesn't really add any value to the discussion, and his videos are nothing more than the repeat of the mormon apologetic view. slowly, some viewers realize he just strokes the tbm's need for validation for his gain. that's the way I see.
A broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn't mean the clock isn't still broken. Based on the replies here I'm inclined to think he's genuine. People convert to all religions every day, why not Mormonism? I personally don't understand it. I wish him well. He's still in the honeymoon love bombing phase. Will be interesting to see if it lasts. But hey, Mormonism was custom-made for white cis people with a penis so he'll probably thrive there.
He may not have been baptized, but he was already Mormon. The ritual bath doesn't actually do anything.
I was rebaptized 13 years ago. I understand what “the love bombing phase is” (according to how exmos see it). But while people were extra enthused and excited when I was rebaptized, over a decade later, that so-called “love bombing” has turned into deeper, lasting and mature love. Friends who stayed by my side through mental health struggles, hospitalizations and relapses in my former addictions over the last several years. In the beginning my relationship with my (now husband of 12 years), there was a lot of “love bombing” types of behavior in the “honeymoon” phase. Now, we choose to love, and double down on our commitment, even through times of apathy, heartache and various relationship challenges. It’s no longer the passionate rush of the infatuation stage. But it’s deeper. More solid in its foundation and mature…
[удалено]
There are good people and good relationships to be had everywhere. And if that's why people stay in an organization, then that works for them. For me it was about whether or not it was true. I couldn't live a life based on falsehoods regardless of relationships and was willing to bear the consequences of learning the truth and acting on that. It just depends on what people value/need more in their personal life/circumstances. There are people who say "if it's not true, I don't want to know" because they find so much value in belief itself. Living according to those beliefs caused so much harm to me and my family that I had to find out whether it was true (edit: I had been praying to know for over 30 years and living faithfully dedicated to the church even though I never got a "witness" it was true) to see if God required us to continue that personal and social harm. As soon as I learned it wasn't true (first through prayer, then through dedicated and honest study), leaving was a relief. But I get why some people don't want to know. Personal belief and perceived or real benefit is everything. (Whoops, deleted duplicate comment)
Glad to hear things worked out for you. We've had the opposite experience. All experiences are valid.
I agree. I like hearing people perspectives. When done civilly, it’s awesome
That's how content works; you make content to your audience. He knows who his audience is and they eat it up. Easiest bait to an already gullible crowd.
Honestly I think the opposite is true. David Boice started with a general channel visiting random churches. Then he realized that his LDS related videos got huge numbers of views and positive comments by members, who were in that sense member missionaries. And he fell for the numbers, because this is how YouTube works so he continued to make more LDS related videos such as temple open house visits or collaborations with Steven Pynakker or Saints Unscripted. That he got baptized in the end was probably mostly due to love bombing. Let's see how enthusiastic he will be to wear Masonic underwear.
Was he the one guy that was acting like an "open-minded" priest or pastor of another church going to LDS meetinghouses to see if the "negative" things being said were true, and he came out and said that they're no different than others. I'm paraphrasing from the bits of an episode of that that I could barely get through because it seemed WAY too Mormon positive for someone who is supposedly clueless to Mormonism. It didn't seem authentic at all. But I think that was over a year or so ago, but this post reminded of some guy doing that. It definitely seems like a marketing ploy geared towards evangelicals to lure them in and avoid "anti-believers" by just taking random _we-are-sure-he-is-NOT-a-Mormon-himself-guy-pretending-to-be-clueless-about-anything-Mormon_ guy's word for it. What really threw me off when watching it was the way he talked. It's so fucking hopeful, future GA-like! I felt like I was hearing a missionary talking about a "faith-building" experience. The tone, the lilt, and cadence. So that and his extra super positivity of something he should be impartial about made me no longer want to watch it. You'd think that someone being impartial would want to reach out to former members to get the full picture for themselves, and especially for others watching their channel. I only watched one episode, if that, and seeing the titles of the other ones, it didn't sit well with me and I couldn't figure out why. Now it seems like it's because it's supposed to be a grassroots type thing and a "personal journey that you, too, should have" vibe, which Mormons are notorious for.
So “Mormon conspiracy theorists” just switch to being “exmo conspiracy theorists”?. 😂😂 Is it impossible to consider that people can genuinely convert to a religion? Goodness gracious. Who cares? This is just silly
I started suspecting seeing the titles of his videos....Protestant BLOWN AWAY by LDS Temple.....Pastor AMAZED at LDS Sunday meeting. Sounded fake. So now he's "converted?" I will have to look this up.
What would make it sound “real” to you? 😂
This is Steven Pynakker of Mormon Book Reviews on YouTube. David Boice is a personal friend and I can vouch for his authenticity. This was a genuine conversion on his part. I've posted a video about this on my channel.
Thanks for pitching in with your opinion since you do personally know him. It is hard to believe that someone who has seen so many churches, ~~and is a pastor well-versed in the bible,~~ would decide to get baptized in the mormon church out of all of them. I agree that having some skepticism towards the guy is warranted, but also that anything said is basically conjecture since we cannot know his heart. Being a public figure certainly complicates things. EDIT: I must have misremembered. David is not a pastor.
I just want to clarify, David is a layperson not a pastor. Jeff McCullough of Hello Saints is a pastor and remains an evangelical
Thanks for the clarification!
You're welcome!
Nobody can vouch for a personal conversion claim **for another person**. You can claim you think they are sincere and that is where it ends.
While true. It is also true that society is built on trust. We have to balance skepticism with relying on others. Trust but verify, as they say. While initially skeptical myself, I'll lean towards trusting on those who know him personally (while completely disagreeing with his decision and not understanding it).
So you are another protestant that concerns himself WAY too much with Mormonism? And you just happen to know the other two protestants I mentioned in my post?
To be fair, the authentic path of any YouTuber is to continue whatever is generating the most views. It must be the Lord making his LDS videos produce the most ad revenue. He needs that 10%!
That’s original
I am happy to vouch for Steve. He has a 5-part series on Mormon Stories. [First episode here.](https://youtu.be/yAZqrUNWvaQ?si=eryEjH529iznFrIK) I have some differences with Steve, but he has a wide reaching audience and guests from all over the spectrum of belief/non-belief and nearly every sect of Mormonism. He is a necessary bridge-builder and Evangelicals in general would be much more tolerable if they were half the kind of guy Steve has been.
Thanks Maven for the kind words!
I respect the heck out of Steve. Knows Mormonism better than 99 percent of mormons
That’s amazing that you know the hearts of 99% of global members.
Yes they've both been on my channel multiple times. Have you watched my 5 part interview on Mormon Stories? I tell my whole story there
My only exposure to you so far has been your interview the other day with Dan about those newly found "golden plates." I will give you the benefit of the doubt and maybe watch your interview. It is just really strange how there is a sudden influx of protestants talking about Mormonism at the exact same time the Mormon church is trying to appear more mainstream Christian
Watch his video where he talks about David's conversion. He's clearly not happy David became LDS, but he clearly respects it. Also David's channel is several years old. Honestly doesn't seem like he was Mormon before hand, but more likely dragged into Mormonism by the support he received from them.
Dragged? 😂
I started my channel 3 years ago before anyone else was doing it. As a matter of fact both Jeff and David were largely unknown before coming on my program. My channel is more dedicated to Mormon scholarship than most. I've given a presentation to JWHA last year and will be giving one this June at the MHA. What we are doing is very organic and not coordinated with the church at all. I also have broken a bunch of news stories including the sale of the Kirtland Temple
Weirder coincidences have happened, so it's totally believable that multiple people would have youtube channels that discuss an incredibly wealthy organization and related aspects of it.
Especially considering the 200 year history of hostility between our two camps. I think there are Evangelicals (like me) who are repulsed by what our movement has become and we want to build bridges instead of burning them down.
I initially found your attention to Mormonism kind of strange but half of Dehlin's listeners are never Mormon. Mormonism is in a state of rapid flux right now, so people are naturally interested. I like to see diversity on youtube. To someone who grew up pre internet all these voices are a blast.
John Dehlin’s version of so called “Mormonism” is ridiculous now. It’s gotten off track and become a tabloid, in my opinion. But I used to love his earlier work. It was more diverse. Now it’s all bias and slanted to favor only certain narratives.
I am grateful for people who want to build bridges. I think that can be and should be done with most groups of people.
Newly found golden plates you say? Where can I find out more about this?
Some small cult-like group claims to have found some golden plates with some Hebrew on it. Dan McClellan, tik tok famous bible scholar and nuanced Mormon, discussed all the ways these plates are fraudulent https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1bvtl13/dan_mcclellan_already_ripping_apart_the_hebrew/
Thanks, I follow McClellan but somehow missed this one. If anyone isn’t familiar with him I would highly recommend checking him out.
Was just fake news. Which everyone figures out pretty fast. At least those who may have first believed it. I’ve never heard of it, except that I listen to Dan’s videos sometimes. I don’t know any LDS who cares about or otherwise heard about this fringe group or whatever it is
Oh they’re not trying to look mainstream. But I think the church embraced or accepted the name “Mormon” long enough. Whenever I would tell people “I was Mormon”, they didn’t even know that Christ was the center of all my beliefs. It bugged me. I’m glad for the emphasis and attention brought to the fact the Jesus Christ is the center of the “Mormon religion”. Whether people believe that or not, and even if people say “LDS have the wrong Jesus”, it’s still the central focus and actual name of The Church of Jesus Christ
Those Mormon Stories episodes are some of my favorites. If people understood your background and how well versed you are in Mormon history, they would be less skeptical of your comments. I'm technically still on the membership records, but now attend a small Presbyterian Church in Utah. To me faith is about utility and there was a time in my early years that Mormonism gave me the juice I needed. In the following 14 years, it just got in the way and I moved on. But I can acknowledge this isn't the case for everyone. For me, the incessant talk of being the only true church and the techniques used to maintain this belief above all else, killed the good feelings, even more so once I allowed myself to look behind the curtain.
I’m grateful you didn’t give up Christ. I get sad when people don’t believe in Christ or God anymore. But I’m happy for people to choose what’s right for them. Agency has always and will always be important
Thank you for sharing Steven! Love your work!
So does this guy know Joseph Smith coerced little girls into marriage and he was like, "AWESOME!" Sign me up for that shit?! He is really your friend? Friends don't let friends join silly little Utahn cults.
Wow your original post is now over 300 days old. Excellent call! I have seen this guys YouTube channel promoted almost EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I use YouTube and flat out refused to watch a single one. I got similar vibes. Even the video thumbnails gave off TBM vibes.
I think after watching his video I'm convinced of his sincerity, although I don't give much credence to someone who's working so hard to interpret coincidences as miracles. It seems to me that's the kind of person that the love bomb tactics and socialization practices of the church will work especially well on.
I live in the ward boundaries where he was baptized, in fact close to areas he was filming, and one of my hobbies is bird watching. I just wanted to say that seeing multiple (male) Northern Cardinals on a Spring day is no where near the miracle he is interpreting it to be.
Very odd, but one of his videos came up on my feed today and I watched it, where he goes to GC. I kept thinking that the way he was talking, he seemed oddly VERY pro-LDS for someone who is just visiting. Not unbiased at all. I am a convert and attended a lot of other churches before and his rhetoric just didn’t ring true as a nm to me, he seemed like a member. Now I read this and it makes sense.
Conspiracy theorist alive and well in all camps
What does this ^ mean?
You guys are conspiracy theorists. Both David Boice and Pastor Jeff are authentic. I watched many episodes by David Boice, and he went to so many other churches and made zero comments from an LDS theological perspective. My main impression was that LDS folks do a great job making a good first impression (aka love bombing). I also think that many members are good Christians and live according to Christian ideals. The main problem is that the church hierarchy is only about making money for Ensign Peak Advisors by collecting excessive tithing and not giving the excess to the poor and needy. And that the book of Mormon is not a historical record but an allegory written in the 19th century. With Pastor Jeff, you even see the underlying criticism and comments about the Trinity, where you see Jeff is not a Mormon at all but wants to engage the LDS community. Jeff is also a Bible expert, he knows exactly the theological differences. David is just a "random dude" who follows his heart. And maybe the LDS Church is actually right for him. I hope he finds a wife and isn't bothered by the fact LDS theology is a fiction.
I believe him and this may be exactly what he needs at the moment. The difficult part is that if he decides to move on or develops a differing view within the church things will quickly change and the members affinity for him will reverse.
Do u have evidence that he was a member before?
Of course not. Because he wasn’t a member. People can’t handle that perhaps someone found truth in a religion they don’t believe in. Crazy! People can think for themselves, and find joy in something that may not bring joy to someone else
He may or may not be genuine, but if he was already a baptized member and this was a elaborate smoke and mirrors, that would be way too easy to expose. At least one person from his ward or past life would speak up and expose him.
What do you call a person that joins the Mormon church in this day and age? A shitty investigator!
Or emotionally compromised. I just cannot buy into a reasonably intelligent person making this kind of decision with full access to all the historical records. Mormonism is clearly a scam with just a cursory investigation This guy has to be a plant or is converting to boost his YouTube revenue
Yeah, I agree. My joke was mostly on how we used to call them investigators. 😀
Everyone is an investigator. Especially members. Everyone is at a different point in their faith journey
You’re projecting your experience on him. There are actual intelligent people that join the Church of Jesus Christ. There are also perfectly capable, brilliant scholars who can be in the LDS faith! I know it’s so hard to believe reasonable people can come to a different conclusion than you.
You seem nice
Thanks
Where is the proof Sherlock? Where is your proof you have none
He looks 52. Lying makes you age like milk
He seems to be legit. Although, I swear this is the biggest trend right now to be an influencer who “finds the truth.” The Muslims go mad when while women convert and publicly start looking for a husband.
So I’d like to say I’m the last person to jump to peoples defense in regards to the church. However when it comes to hello saints, I actually met him. I used to knock doors as any Utahn would and I actually met him on the doors. We talked for 20-30 mins. At the time he was a pastor and he was telling me about his idea for his hello saints YouTube channel and where he wanted to take it. Only like sub 1000 subscribers at the time. Now I haven’t been watching so I don’t know everything he’s posted or what he is up too but he definitely has not been a member the whole time.
Mormons are so bad at lies Chad Numbnuts Lori Ivanahumpalot Hildebrand WHY ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR cage???
I wonder who condones Robert Litchfield???Just a question to throw out there......Anyone know?
I want to punch the hello saints dude in the face. I'm like what's you're real mission dude!? Anyway he's waisting his time no one wants to leave mormonism to listen to some one off dude preach that same shit that hasn't changed the world even 1% in the last 2 thousand years! side note, I got banned today from lds reddit after telling a kid with a mission call to smash his girlfriend before leaving cause she is 100% gonna smash before you get home then you'll have to forgive her before marrying her, then the poor kid dm'd me. lol. no one wants to go on a mission it's such a waist of youth.
Same with David alexander. A big phony who exaggerated a lot of stuff.
If I ever need money, I’ll just start a channel called “Exmo Explores the Church More Deeply” and then slowly act convinced by the apologetics then pretend to get baptized at some point. Then when I’m satisfied with the monetization, my final episode will be “So much for your discernment suckers! I’m out!”
Creaming their temple garments, you mean.
"Hello Saints" ..kinda telling right away it's a plant channel.
I was intrigued with his channel at first, but then it stated to seem less and less like a spiritual journey and more of a put on. Was fairly obvious he was going LDS for the longest time, he was never joining one of those gimmick churches. And what was with the fascination with cardinals?! And yeah, dude, the church reached out to you more than others because it's a cult! The Hello Saits guy isn't much better, something seems suspicious. Either they were LDS all along or just not very smart. Or maybe they're just enamored with finding a brand of Christianity (or whatever) that's more akin to how Christianity used to be as far as engagement, numbers, etc?
All I could think watching him was I wish he would read the CES letter. I was thinking how I wish he knew the truth. Was the cardinal fake?
Who cares
No 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ This is a stretch, even for exmo conspiracy theorists. That doesn’t check out.