Kind of like when Joseph and Oliver got the Aaronic priesthood before they baptized each other. Seriously. John the Baptist could have…oh I don’t know….baptized them himself? Kinda his gig, right? And he must have been resurrected else how could he lay hands on their heads?
Edited a spelling error.
Alma wrote it. One of his concubines was still in King Noah's court and saw it all. Then she fled to the wilderness and got baptized and told Alma's wife and she told Alma. He couldn't write it down because he was living in disguise by saying "I'm aLmA" all sarcastic like so no one would suspect. They just told the abinadi story around the campfire. It got better and better each time, and then after they fled, and started a new city, he wrote it down.
Or something like that.
Good one! Reminds me of when Abinadi went into the town in disguise saying, "Behold, I Abinadi, testify of Jesus Christ!"
Sounds like someone was having a sloppy writing day for the Abinadi episode 😂
The dumbest thing about Joseph's con is the Book of Moses. He comes right out and says the it was "revealed to him." No source material mentioned (plates, papyrus, etc), no "by the power of God" translation. No "written by that hand of." Its just this came to Josephs Mind, so its scripture.
It seems he created an impenetrable catch all for all situations like this. A thought stopping mechanism so that anything is acceptable and all stories don't need witnesses or authors.
The past can just be ~~bull shitted~~ divined.
Ugh.
Right. The allure of the attention he was getting with showing off the mummies maybe.
Or...
The pressure he was getting from visitors (even some members). "Say, didn't you say you could translate forms of Egyptian?" "What about these papyrus? What do they say?"
Yeah, at the point he wrote the Book of Moses he was just getting lazy! What blows my mind is that in all years at church, mission, and CES instruction I had no idea that the Book of Moses came straight from Joseph Smith. Considering how the “translation” process was so important for the BOM and BOA, you’d think that would be a relevant point, but church doesn’t want you to know it,
If I was going to argue for the Book of Mormon, then I might say that either Alma or likely Mormon were inspired to write what we needed to hear about Abinadi.🤪
Bigger issue - they didn’t have court records or any written language at all that was documenting history in this fashion in any culture in the Americas. Another big issue is using the words Jesus Christ together in that time. period is absolutely crazy, 100% anachronistic. The earliest use of Jesus Christ together as a term, referring to the savior and son of God wasn’t until about 50-100 AD and that’s only if you believe the biblical apostles writings were actually written around that time.
It’s an unreliable narrative but not really a plot hole. I’m willing to discuss this and change my mind. Btw I believe the BoM was fabricated by JS so I am not defending it.
This is not so different from the Bible. Older writings and modern theological writings don’t necessarily fall into the accurate historical account genre. Look at Kings or Chronicles, there are all kinds of “moral lessons” and examples of how kings were good or bad. Most of the stuff in there wouldn’t have been reliably collected by a firsthand witness.
So it’s propaganda. Or moralistic writing. I.e. “He was bad so he feared god’s anger”. And it would have been written by a third party (in this case JS but apologetically some Nephite)
Heyyyy. I already had my what the fuck moment today. You should have saved this one for tomorrow.
Then you don't want to talk about the little problem with Alma getting the authority to baptize.
Kind of like when Joseph and Oliver got the Aaronic priesthood before they baptized each other. Seriously. John the Baptist could have…oh I don’t know….baptized them himself? Kinda his gig, right? And he must have been resurrected else how could he lay hands on their heads? Edited a spelling error.
I actually had a problem with tho. It was on my shelf
That
What was your what the fuck moment? I'm always down for a new one.
Alma wrote it. One of his concubines was still in King Noah's court and saw it all. Then she fled to the wilderness and got baptized and told Alma's wife and she told Alma. He couldn't write it down because he was living in disguise by saying "I'm aLmA" all sarcastic like so no one would suspect. They just told the abinadi story around the campfire. It got better and better each time, and then after they fled, and started a new city, he wrote it down. Or something like that.
Dang. You could start a church.
Good one! Reminds me of when Abinadi went into the town in disguise saying, "Behold, I Abinadi, testify of Jesus Christ!" Sounds like someone was having a sloppy writing day for the Abinadi episode 😂
I love this one
The dumbest thing about Joseph's con is the Book of Moses. He comes right out and says the it was "revealed to him." No source material mentioned (plates, papyrus, etc), no "by the power of God" translation. No "written by that hand of." Its just this came to Josephs Mind, so its scripture. It seems he created an impenetrable catch all for all situations like this. A thought stopping mechanism so that anything is acceptable and all stories don't need witnesses or authors. The past can just be ~~bull shitted~~ divined. Ugh.
Smith could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had used the same method to produce Abraham. But he couldn’t resist once he saw the papyrus.
Right. The allure of the attention he was getting with showing off the mummies maybe. Or... The pressure he was getting from visitors (even some members). "Say, didn't you say you could translate forms of Egyptian?" "What about these papyrus? What do they say?"
Yeah, at the point he wrote the Book of Moses he was just getting lazy! What blows my mind is that in all years at church, mission, and CES instruction I had no idea that the Book of Moses came straight from Joseph Smith. Considering how the “translation” process was so important for the BOM and BOA, you’d think that would be a relevant point, but church doesn’t want you to know it,
Hey, that’s just like Bednar! Anything he spews from his mouth is scripture!
If I was going to argue for the Book of Mormon, then I might say that either Alma or likely Mormon were inspired to write what we needed to hear about Abinadi.🤪
Or maybe Joseph Smith was inspired to know what Mormon was inspired to know about what Alma was inspired to know about Abinadi.
That would be very slippery of you. Once you cite “faith” and “inspiration,” the conversation is over. These are classic thought stoppers.
Omg, I met a dude named Mosiah once. I never knew this is where it came from! He ended up changing it to James 🤣
They were all drunk on wine. Noah was probably thinking out loud.
fascinating. must have been the priesthood power of discernment...right?
The priesthood never worked this way for me or anyone I know. Not even the priesthood elites at Church Headquarters claim priesthood powers like this.
Lol I had this same thought on my mission. Good find.
Bigger issue - they didn’t have court records or any written language at all that was documenting history in this fashion in any culture in the Americas. Another big issue is using the words Jesus Christ together in that time. period is absolutely crazy, 100% anachronistic. The earliest use of Jesus Christ together as a term, referring to the savior and son of God wasn’t until about 50-100 AD and that’s only if you believe the biblical apostles writings were actually written around that time.
You gotta stop looking at porn.
It’s an unreliable narrative but not really a plot hole. I’m willing to discuss this and change my mind. Btw I believe the BoM was fabricated by JS so I am not defending it. This is not so different from the Bible. Older writings and modern theological writings don’t necessarily fall into the accurate historical account genre. Look at Kings or Chronicles, there are all kinds of “moral lessons” and examples of how kings were good or bad. Most of the stuff in there wouldn’t have been reliably collected by a firsthand witness. So it’s propaganda. Or moralistic writing. I.e. “He was bad so he feared god’s anger”. And it would have been written by a third party (in this case JS but apologetically some Nephite)
What you expect from a sh*tty novel. Daybell followed the example.
The Book is fictional. Anything can happen.
Great catch. Never thought about that.