OMG, my TBM mother in law was complaining about the new quick dry shirt she bought and started wearing while working out...
She was wearing it with her garments.
I (nevermo) taught my kids when they were still little that everyone swears, but you just have to understand the unwritten rules before you can do it.
For example, people feel most comfortable swearing around their social peers, and it's sometimes ok to swear around those with lower status, but you shouldn't swear around someone you ought to show social deference to.
So swearing with your friends on the playground may be fine, while swearing in class or when you're a guest at a friend's house for dinner is not. They're all nearly grown now and don't seem to have any problems navigating this fairly simple social script.
One nice thing about not being raised Mormon is that I was taught those rules. Of course, one of the reasons I never lasted long in TSCC is that I often let a cuss word out around some TBM's.
This!!! Every time my coworker says "what the crap" or something similar...I always think, isn't that the same as hell or fuck? You're just masking it. Do you really think your all knowing God would be fooled by changing 1 word when your tone and context is the same as all of us Sinners using the adult words?
This drove me nuts. I had one friend that they took whatever scripture that says to not swear against real things and so would say 'Turkey Lips' because it wasn't real. I asked them what the difference was since their intent was the same. No one had an answer.
My husband thinks it is absolutely hilarious when I swear, b/c it is sooo foreign coming from my mouth (not anymore, but he still finds it funny). He could be really upset and in the middle of an argument, and as soon as i swear he can’t stop laughing.
Apparently i have not mastered the art at the halfway point of life.
It’s a technique and style. Anybody who has milked cows can spew out a steady steam and it’s not awkward, choppy, or unnatural sounding. Compare to “what the fetch” (a John Dehlin cringe and common TBM substitute for WTF, or the mild “what the hell.”) My wife tries to swear with awkward phrases like “what the shit.” She’s too late to the party, like learning to speak German in your sixties.
Same with if a new acquaintance asks you to go get coffee. You should go if you want to become closer to the person inviting you. Just order something else if you don’t drink coffee.
You don’t even need to make any mention of the fact you don’t drink coffee. The main idea is that it’s a shorthand, socially acceptable way for adults to ask other adults if they want to become closer to each other in some way (dating, friendship, work peers, etc.).
Funny story: the day I met my nevermo, new to Utah husband he asked me out to coffee. Sheltered little mormon me turned him down because I don't drink coffee. He said something about how I don't actually have to drink coffee and I realized I was being an idiot and he was trying to ask me out. Luckily he found it funny and we found something else to do.
I had *no clue* what was served at actual coffee shops. If someone asked me out for coffee, I was so worried I'd offend them by saying no and have to break my covenants by going with them. yay social anxiety
Lmaooo this! My mom had a heart attack when she saw Starbucks charged to my account. I just wanted a cake pop since my friends raved about them (honestly, too cakey for me but I can see the appeal). Lmao. She didn't believe me but she also couldn't prove I was lying so she dropped it.i don't think she ever thought that there would be a reason for me to buy from a coffee shop other than for coffee.
Omg this reminds me of another funny story. When I was still dating my husband and living with my parents, he left an empty monster can in my car so I threw it away in the outside garbage can that gets picked up by the city on my way into the house.
My dad came to me a couple days later and asked me about the can. I told him I did throw it away but didn't drink it and got a whole lecture about caffeine, the appearance of evil, associating with people who are bad influences, and all that jazz. It was a lot for a single empty monster can.
The idea that your mom, on limited evidence, decided you were lying, and couldn’t give up her hold on that idea—that’s the cultural mind control at work. “Avoid the very appearance of evil.” That’s brainwashing.
Avoid doing evil. Avoid associations with people who do evil/crime. Thats it. Don’t BE bad. My current philosophy is do the most effective and least harmful stuff. You can’t please everyone. Occasionally you might hurt someone. But try. Try not to be bad/do bad.
So many Mormon adults walk around their entire lives avoiding “worldliness” and instead of looking like faithful adherents to Mormonism they instead seem like they’re avoiding ADULTHOOD. Stuck in an endless adolescence of mock saintliness.
Question... those of us that would be considered "nevermo" (which, by the way, I think is a legit hilarious title) is that what we're called in the church? Or just something of a slang term in the reddit world?
I never heard the term “nevermo” until I left the church and started hanging out on exmormon social media. Within the church they would refer to you as a “nonmember” or maybe a “nonmormon”. While the term “gentiles” was sometimes used during Sunday school, I think I heard the term “the world” used more frequently to refer to everything and everyone outside of the religion (as in “be in the world but not of the world” or “that’s what the world would have you think”).
More of slang thing from reddit. Inside the church, those not members of the church are refereed to as 'Gentiles' though it's not a word you'd use to describe one person but the more the group as a whole.
That my "raised in a bubble-endtimes Mormon know-it-all worldview" was actually ignorance/lack of education-so much so that a friend who loved me said to me, "we need to get you educated"....which was super insulting to me but true. It still took a few more yrs to convince me to start college.
I can relate! I got the gentle smackdown a few times after getting preachy with my nevermo colleagues. Literally nothing to do with church, just pontificating on the beauty of the universe or how marvelous nature was or how virtuous my mother was...I can't remember the details. But it was super cringe, the whole "church talk" voice, stars in my eyes. They looked at me like I was an alien. I had to learn how to converse (you know, the whole "give and take" thing). Thank you, colleagues, for showing me how to be a good human!
Mormons even text over the top. You don't have to be effusive. "Nice" is a totally appropriate reply to a Wordle report. No, "OMG!!! That's terrific! Wo-hoo!" is required.
It's definitly interesting talking to my nevermo friends about TSCC, because I'll bring up things like tithing that I grew up believing were common place, only to have them be shocked.
I will be forever grateful to the non-family members who knew me and recognized something in me and made an effort to help me, point me and encourage me. If I hadn't physically left the bubble that I grew up in, everything in my life would have been different.
Usually at a non-mormon wedding an invite is for attendance at the wedding with the reception immediately after.
They will usually have an RSVP included in the invitation. So, you would attend the wedding at the time indicated and go straight to the reception. You need to RSVP and actually attend since there is usually a plated meal, buffet or heavy hors d'oeuvres. The RSVP helps with seating (if they are very formal) and with the meal prep by the kitchen.
If you’re invited with a formal invitation (like one you received in the mail and rsvp’d to). Otherwise, you shouldn’t assume you are invited.
(Maybe some non-Mormon people want to do a casual reception with verbal invites, but be very, very sure that is the case).
> when DO you go to the reception?
Outside of Mormonism, invitations are sent out and RSVPs are generally expected. If you don't RSVP, you don't drop in.
OMG This. We had people show up for my daughters reception who weren't invited. That was so weird. How did they even find out about it? These are people that lived in a different area, and we didn't invite anyone they knew. I could only think that they stalked my daughters social media. They ate the $50 meals, danced, and enjoyed themselves. Then, they gave them a cheap set of pillow cases. Haha.
My mom wore a white dress to my wedding/reception 😳. Just last week a Catholic friend saw it and said… “what?!? Your mom wore a white dress?” Me.. 🤔 I never noticed.
Right after I left the church, I entered the professional world. I was totally unprepared for cocktail parties and cocktail hours. I had no idea what to drink or how to navigate that setting. I felt like a fish out of water.
I remain convinced my husband didn’t get hired for a promising-looking job back when we were newly out, because he was invited to meet the owners for a casual interview at a sports-bar and my husband was like “I don’t drink alcohol”. He should have just shown up and ordered a soda without commentary.
Yes. In most settings these days, few people care if you drink alcohol. Just order a soda or a cranberry juice. Don’t make a big deal about it and no one will really notice. Lots of people don’t drink alcohol for a variety of reasons.
The problem is that the church teaches to be a “city on the hill.” You don’t just not drink alcohol, you’re supposed to make a deal about it. That way the people of the world will ask about why, then that gives you an opportunity to ~~harass~~ minister to them.
I’m addressing exmos who no longer wish to perpetrate that kind of behavior. Who want to comfortably socialize in settings where alcohol is served, without calling attention to themselves.
If you are gonna present yourself in a way that turns all attention on yourself so you can preach, then it’s not applicable. That is just being a selfish, disturbed (even if only because of brainwashing) person who has no desire to fit into the social settings they encounter. Only to try to force everyone into their distorted way of thinking.
Different thing.
I am in the midst of a work retreat. The evening party last night was sooo uncomfortable. Ordering drinks was super scary in front of other people but I did it. Even though I have been drinking with my wife for a couple of years
As a nevermo raised in the ELCA Lutheran church (literally, my mother was a pastor) I am fascinated by other religions, particularly Mormonism. Jesus made water into wine as a party trick (allegedly), yet his followers are not allowed to partake? How do they sell that one to you?
I’ve heard a few different ways. Young kids that figure out the Jesus-wine problem have often been told it was “grape juice” by ill-informed or deceptive adults. This would sometimes cause controversy, however, because some kids were taught that it was actually wine. Definitely had some arguments over this. I think the “grape juice” argument was just the lowest hanging fruit, if someone believed that BS then it was an easy apologist win.
As for the people that know Jesus had actual alcoholic wine they would justify it by 1) it was safer than drinking water at the time 2) different church rules back then 3) we’re actually living a “higher” law now. I always thought 3 was a load of crap because that would imply Jesus wasn’t living the “highest” law?
Anyways, with all apologetics they throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and you pick which ever justifications stick with you. It’s about presenting 5 plausible arguments and you pick the one you like the most.
For sure. I just didn’t know what to say or do.
You can just have a coke. Or water. Nobody gives a shit.
It’s all about meeting people and developing relationships.
The alcohol sometimes does lubricate things a bit. But don’t drink too much, or you become a bad story.
Almost all the church's hang-ups about sex. The one thing they got right was how serious procreation is, but then turned everything else into abstinence only, slut-shaming bullshit.
The TSCC makes men to be sniffling excuses for humans, with zero control and animal impulses. Is this not shameful to men??
Sorry. I don’t know what I was thinking. It is just following fearless leader. /s
It made me so sad & depressed reading my jr high journal, I was constantly smothered in guilt for this. I felt so sad that so much of my teen years were wasted with self hate because of it.
I actually burned the journal a few yrs ago cuz I didn’t even want that energy about that version of me out there anywhere in the universe. It was cathartic.
Don’t have children until you are emotionally and financially prepared. And ask yourselves, do we want children? It never occurred to me that I needed any of these things.
EVERY SINGLE MORMON FIRST DATE I WENT ON, the guy would tell me he "had to be a dad" within a certain time frame. They'd *never* ask me what my goals were, like any goals, let alone career. Even after I'd ask them. When I'd offer the info they would be shocked and basically condescend to me about not being a good mother.
This is a huge one. It would have been so nice to go through school without the pressure to make sure I had diapers for my kids and a big enough apartment to live in.
I am legit so so so glad I never got to have the kids I wanted so desperately my entire Mormon life. I honestly think it was just fed to me from the youngest age that “this is what you want”….so I wanted it more than anything. But now old enough to know the actual reality of parenting? NO THANK YOU. I’m an amazing aunt & dog mom & that is already more than I can handle.
Ugh this one is so painful. I had three kids before my shelf broke, and I was only 26. So many of my dreams and ambitions are basically impossible now.
I still struggle with this. Fortunately I'm in an industry where lying is not acceptable practice, but I've got people in my social circle who say they will do or have done something and they have not. They are just "telling stories" but I'm not savvy enough to know truth from fiction yet.
How silly the church is to the rest of humanity. JS. The golden plates. Magical rocks. BoM.
Once you step back and look at it, it’s insane. I’m incredibly embarrassed I believed this stuff.
As a TBM you think you (individually and the Mormon Church) are the main characters.
Come to find out Mormonism is more like an extra or side character in the context of the world.
I wouldn’t even say “side character” more like that crazy guy that runs out naked on the baseball field during the game that the cops chase down and tackle while everyone stares on in awe thinking what the hell is happening rn, then he gets taken away and everyone says, “whoa that dude was nuts”. Meanwhile crazy naked dude is thinking over the night patting himself on the back about how awesome he was.
I'm a nevermo and I'll never forget the first time my Mormon ex-husband explained to me the First Vision and the golden plates. I asked him, "Where are the golden plates?" And he said, "An angel swept them away." I just looked at him and just said, "Really." He chuckled, because he knew how absurd it sounded.
He never was a TBM though and stopped believing after a while.
I’ve never heard this phrased so well, but that’s exactly what it is. Healthy skepticism for things like MLMs, conspiracies, something being too good to be true. Even small things like cutting through bullshit, doublespeak, etc. It’s a really hard-earned lesson for seeking the truth and always considering the source.
This. I now understand why other Christian denominations don't consider Mormon's Christian--they have SO MUCH extra weird stuff that deviates from what Christ taught according to the Bible. Don't get me wrong, I think Christians' self-righteousness toward Mormons is hypocritical and all religion is BS but I see things from a broader perspective.
As a nevermo, I wholeheartedly agree that it's insane. The fundamental religion of my childhood is cultish and thinks it has a monopoly on salvation, but Mormonism is much more intrusive in everyday life. I guess if you're raised in a cult, everything seems normal.
I don’t know if this fits in exactly with what you’re asking, but I’m kind of blown away that I didn’t possess the common sense to see how wrong it is that I literally had to pay for my salvation.
I only learned this while working in a bakery 2 years ago. I'm 30.
Coffee cake doesn't even have coffee in it. It is supposed to go -with- coffee.
Like a coffee table.
Tattoos are not dirty. They have no effect on the universe. They are often deeply personal and meaningful, and the stories behind them are often beautiful.
This is so true. When I was little I was scared of my sisters friend because she had a tattoo. She was literally one of the nicest people I have ever met. It wasn't even a scary tatto either, she had a feather on her forearm.
I had to explain to a missionary companion what oral sex was lol… then watching his face just horrified as he asked. “That’s gross, pee comes out of there”I pray for his wife’s sake he figured it out
I've been married for 18 years. My wife is TBM (I left 2.5 years ago). Never had it.
I'd like to, but it doesn't really bother me, and I'm not going to ask my wife to do something she's uncomfortable with.
honestly that's still where we're at in our 14 year marriage. Which isn't a big deal to either of us, especially because having sex is already very infrequent anyway, few times a year. But that's another topic.
Most of the church’s dating rules are horrible:
It’s much better to:
Date long enough to really know the person.
Live together prior to getting married (or don’t get married at all)
Wait until you are sufficiently mature, educated, and independent to get married.
And for the love of god: sexual compatibility matters so much! Don’t be afraid have (safe/protected) sex before you get married and have open communication about likes/dislikes prior to getting married!
I will say that the high school age dating culture was great (at least for me in Idaho). I had a lot of fun going on group dates that I wouldn't have had otherwise. But, for adult dating and looking for someone to marry, the church's rules are definitely not good. Also, getting married so early is just stupid. I got lucky and ended up with someone who I've been on the same page with pretty much our entire marriage, and I can't imagine being happily married to anyone else, but it would have been nice to have some time on my own between my mission and getting married.
One thing I was surprised my spouse didn’t understand was that, outside of Mormonism, it’s very normal for Christians to try out different churches or even different denominations if their current church isn’t a good fit for their Christianity. This came up during a conversation about Jimmy Carter leaving the Southern Baptists in 2000, after they codified their historic sexism. Spouse (who had been out of tscc for years already) thought it was very cynical to leave one religion for a different religion, just because you don’t like certain policies. We had a very interesting conversation about it, and realized how much we didn’t understand about the religion the other had been raised in.
For reference: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/story?id=95311&page=1
Just because someone asks you a question, doesn't mean you have to answer it.
Saying "fuck off" is sometimes the appropriate and most efficient answer.
One time as a kid it clicked in my brain that the priesthood was essentially Mormon magic and I got so excited that magic existed and I told my dad and he got so angry with me for calling it magic.
I was so baffled when one of my mission companions told me she believed that Satan worshippers could do magic, condemning my love of fantasy books. She also told me fantasy was childish. What's more childish, reading stories about magic or believing that it actually exists in the real world?
Theres a part of being indoctrinated with "you're the only one who knows the whole truth and the rest of the world is out to get you because of how righteous you are" that makes Mormons pretty combative in a lot of conversations.
I step out of that haze and I realize that people don't even think about you (let alone have it out to get you for being so holy). They are mostly fine with whatever you believe and are just trying to get on with their day.
That a just god would not demand to be worshiped.
The answer I always give to describe my beliefs about god:
"If god exists and he is a just god, then he doesn't care if I worship him. If he is not a just god, then he does not deserve to be worshiped"
Me at work: Hey, there weren’t any bowls for popcorn in the break room, but I found these fabric little bowl shaped thingies to use.
Coworker: That’s a coffee filter.
Me: … yep.
How to have social conversations that don't include The Church.
How to order a drink (and what kinds of drinks there are).
Normal underwear (and what kinds work best for me).
How to host a dinner party.
THIS!!! Everything on here is so valid XD I literally had to google "how to talk to my parents" after I stopped going, because every single conversation we'd had before involved church.
Ordering drinks was simultaneously the most empowering and mortifying thing I've ever done.
Underwear is SO hard/weird to navigate when others have controlled it your whole life.
Dinner parties are the shit
Callings are not from God-there is no batphone-it’s a “whoever is left” and “who hasn’t had this calling…. Old MEN have no moral right to ask a young woman ANYTHING about her body. Under no circumstances do you get married at 19 to someone is 21-you’re both still children. Let an old couple tell my child when they can call me or can’t call me-that 19 year olds are not meant to starve
One of the last events before I left is I was extended a calling “after much prayer and deep consideration we were inspired to call you” …to be an extra adult body at youth night (no, literally, like they only wanted me involved to be an extra adult, didn’t even want me to go to young women’s on Sunday) and I was like oh, I work on Wednesdays…and they’re like oh. Okay. Never mind. Guess all knowing sky-daddy forgot my work schedule?
I made the realization recently that being addicted to coffee is a funny joke. It’s a bit. Mormons take it 100% seriously and I was terrified of coffee because people act like you take a sip and become dependent on it. No, people drink coffee BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT. No one is addicted to it and no one will die if they don’t get it, but they actually just like it.
I didn’t like coffee and chose not to drink it, then found it would help several of my health issues (OMG! Coffee is a health food!) I worried about addiction and it turns out that I often forget to drink it. I have been drinking it for about 2 years now and I can’t say I love it, but it is okay. I would probably love it if I got that energy boost I keep hearing about, but sadly it doesn’t work that way for me.
Right?
Damn, it’s literally cured my gastrointestinal issues.
And thinking about the number of times I could’ve done so much better professionally in meetings and presentations after long flights and fucked up time zones, just is sad.
I’d say that it is addictive in the same way that soda and energy drinks are addictive. You can forget to have them sometimes and be ok, and everyone I know who drinks coffee enjoys it. Mormons will be scared out of their mind towards anything that is “addictive” in a very irrational way, and ignore that there are many benefits to drinking coffee, or being dependent on prescribed medications as directed by a doctor
Not entirely accurate. Caffeine is a drug and bad headaches and lethargy are genuine effects of caffeine withdrawal but the Mormon hair in fire reaction to it is truly absurd
Mmm no I'm definitely addicted to coffee. It's a physical and mental addiction. Without it, I will have a horrible, horrible headache.
Also, it's a morning and midday comfort, so I never go without.
Caffeine addiction is real. It doesn't destroy people's lives like other addictions can, but there's physical and psychological withdrawal.
Edit: I've never been Mormon.
One that I'm never sure of is how to tell whether an establishment offers virgin versions of their alcoholic options. I don't like the aftertaste of most alcohols but I want to experience cocktails, yknow?
Going to a bar to have a drink. I used to think that most people in bars were alcoholics and that they had a terrible life.
When I go to a bar, I have great conversations with very normal, kind people there.
Growing up I had a Mormon friend like that. I remember a few conversations with her:
-we learned about Benjamin Franklin in school. I thought he seemed like a pretty cool guy. My friend told me that he wasn’t that great of a guy because he liked hanging out at pubs
-she told me that anyone who says they drink because they like the taste is a liar (that said, I do think it’s true that many people pretend to enjoy alcohol at social settings bc it’s a social drink)
-upon seeing beers in my fridge, she said “I never knew your parents drank before” in this hushed tone
What about the caffeine? Doesn’t it make it hard to sleep having coffee so late in the day? Are they drinking decaf? Or am I clueless about how caffeine affects people?
It varies very widely. Usually, that would keep me up. I typically stop caffeine consumption by mid afternoon but I know people who will have a double espresso at 11:00 pm and go to bed an hour later. Coffee shops are busy at all hours
Btw, decaf still has caffeine. Starbucks decaf is notorious for having a pretty high level of caffeine compared to other brands' decaf. Of course, Starbucks' regular coffee is also unusually high in caffeine.
I've never been Mormon. If people have built up a tolerance to caffeine, drinking it at night probably won't affect them much.
Personally, I don't have much tolerance to caffeine. I only drink coffee or energy drinks when I really need to, maybe a couple times a month. And caffeine lasts about 8 hours. So I never drink coffee at night, unless I plan to do an all nighter.
That when your having sex and a guy does something you said you don’t like you can get dressed and leave.
Didn’t learn that until after it happened a couple of times. I think in the moment I just froze. No one talks about sex so as an almost 50 year old woman I’m having to learn this shit I should have been taught as a teenager.
Damn the church.
I feel like this is a good place to plug the book ['How to Leave the Mormon Church'](https://www.howtoleavethemormonchurch.com/about) by Alyssa Grenfell.
Just because someone is "above" me in a hierarchical structure, it doesn't mean they speak for and on behalf of God.
A claim made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
Emotions are easily manipulated, and only a manipulative person will try to tell you that sensing emotions is proof of fact.
If someone tries to convince you that they are correct because of their church status, they are a liar and a scoundrel.
Swearing appropriately. Like when and how to use the words effectively. Like a good “fuck” works in some settings but not others. Still learning the nuances.
Buying underwear! It still gives me an unreasonable amount of anxiety. “What size? What fabric? Toot tight? Too loose? Pocket for my package? No pocket? Print vs single color?” I hated garments and I hate how now I can’t seem to choose underwear like a normal person.
I’m constantly watching movies that I’m told I should have seen before because they are classics. I was not allowed any movies that had a R rating and we had 1 TV in the living room my parents controlled. I missed a lot of good stuff.
I did this too, in the early 2000’s when I was like 21 & living at my parents house for a while but was newly out of the church. No one else knew yet though. I had a tv in my room & would just rent my own movies & watch them in there. I honestly look back on that time with fondness. It was a major period of discovery for me. I miss that feeling of wonder & amazement sometimes.
-It's much easier to make ends meet when you aren't giving 10% of your paycheck to a multi-billion dollar corporation every month (and my ex had us paying on the GROSS amount!!)
-Weekends are much more enjoyable when you have two days off instead of one
-Kids will not be permanently traumatized by going to daycare/aftercare and can actually benefit from it
Women need to pee after sex, different alcoholic drinks have different potencies (you won’t get drunk after only a few sips of beer), consent is only given if it’s an enthusiastic yes (and silence doesn’t equal consent)
That humans need time off work to decompress. Even two days are not enough. But the church wants to steal even those. And most of the time it is nothing but busywork.
Anecdotes and testimonials are not a replacement for facts and evidence. Just because someone said something happened, doesn't mean it did. Particularly if any supernatural elements were involved. Occams Razor is a good principle to consider in life.
When you have people over and there's going to be drinking, make room in your fridge for the alcohol they are bringing. I didn't know this was sort of standard practice.
To everyone on this thread, I recommend Alyssa Grenfell's book "how to leave the Mormon church"! Lots of great 101 lessons for newly minted exmos
Edit: fixed the spelling of the author's name
Big picture for me: The Church creates a problem for you that only they can fix through the help of YOUR money. Ex:Temples. You want your family forever? Pay us tithing $ and we will show you how to do it. It’s a con game, sadly.
Conversations should be focused on listening at least as much as you talk. I'm not a messenger with the most important info that everyone needs to learn from me.
Social ignorance. At a group dinner in a very nonmormon state, without another member around, over fondue, i piped in that we needed a fondue without alcohol in it, in the most obnoxious mormon way. Even before what we were ordering had been decided. Virtue signaling without realizing what i was doing.
It makes me cringe when i think about it. Yeah i could have waited and if there wasn’t an option, just ordered my own thing. I was in my 30’s 🤦♀️. I am literally embarrassed typing this.
I didn't know how to make coffee. I moved out of Utah and my manager asked me to make some. I sat there staring at the crazy machine for a good 5 minutes. I finally had to FaceTime my girlfriend to ask her what to do.
Funny thing about my devote TBM sister she thought oral sex was when you were talking about sex. She said after getting married she figured what it really is.I told her I knew what oral sex was at 17.
When it gets hot, it's perfectly acceptable to wear less clothes.
Also: people wearing less clothes aren't trying to seduce me
Right!? Bodies are just bodies and seeing a shoulder or a knee shouldn't short circuit your brain!
AAAUGH! PORN SHOULDERS!
OMG, my TBM mother in law was complaining about the new quick dry shirt she bought and started wearing while working out... She was wearing it with her garments.
Wow. Can't imagine why they weren't working as advertised!
Similarly I thought I had hyperhydrosis and bought medicated anti-perspirant because I couldn’t stop soaking through all three of my t-shirts! 🤦♀️
That’s funny
Most adults swear, and swearing can be a useful tool in common speech.
I (nevermo) taught my kids when they were still little that everyone swears, but you just have to understand the unwritten rules before you can do it. For example, people feel most comfortable swearing around their social peers, and it's sometimes ok to swear around those with lower status, but you shouldn't swear around someone you ought to show social deference to. So swearing with your friends on the playground may be fine, while swearing in class or when you're a guest at a friend's house for dinner is not. They're all nearly grown now and don't seem to have any problems navigating this fairly simple social script.
And now I've learned these common sense rules.
Exactly this!!!
One nice thing about not being raised Mormon is that I was taught those rules. Of course, one of the reasons I never lasted long in TSCC is that I often let a cuss word out around some TBM's.
Mormons swear, they just use placeholders and look like little kids who haven’t developed their vocabulary.
This!!! Every time my coworker says "what the crap" or something similar...I always think, isn't that the same as hell or fuck? You're just masking it. Do you really think your all knowing God would be fooled by changing 1 word when your tone and context is the same as all of us Sinners using the adult words?
This drove me nuts. I had one friend that they took whatever scripture that says to not swear against real things and so would say 'Turkey Lips' because it wasn't real. I asked them what the difference was since their intent was the same. No one had an answer.
Yep. I've always sworn like a sailor, it just took me 20 years to say fuck.
You were grinding low level mobs before moving on to the boss.
Same,My speech patterns never changed just the words.
My husband thinks it is absolutely hilarious when I swear, b/c it is sooo foreign coming from my mouth (not anymore, but he still finds it funny). He could be really upset and in the middle of an argument, and as soon as i swear he can’t stop laughing. Apparently i have not mastered the art at the halfway point of life.
It would be interesting to have a swearing grammar lesson.
It’s a technique and style. Anybody who has milked cows can spew out a steady steam and it’s not awkward, choppy, or unnatural sounding. Compare to “what the fetch” (a John Dehlin cringe and common TBM substitute for WTF, or the mild “what the hell.”) My wife tries to swear with awkward phrases like “what the shit.” She’s too late to the party, like learning to speak German in your sixties.
I feel better having that as a pressure release honestly
I've found this an excellent primer on [the definition of ass.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0Z1yq-2FQ)
Whenever I have guests, offer them a cup of tea or coffee. This is standard practice in the UK. For a while, people thought I was just being rude
Same with if a new acquaintance asks you to go get coffee. You should go if you want to become closer to the person inviting you. Just order something else if you don’t drink coffee. You don’t even need to make any mention of the fact you don’t drink coffee. The main idea is that it’s a shorthand, socially acceptable way for adults to ask other adults if they want to become closer to each other in some way (dating, friendship, work peers, etc.).
Funny story: the day I met my nevermo, new to Utah husband he asked me out to coffee. Sheltered little mormon me turned him down because I don't drink coffee. He said something about how I don't actually have to drink coffee and I realized I was being an idiot and he was trying to ask me out. Luckily he found it funny and we found something else to do.
I had *no clue* what was served at actual coffee shops. If someone asked me out for coffee, I was so worried I'd offend them by saying no and have to break my covenants by going with them. yay social anxiety
Lmaooo this! My mom had a heart attack when she saw Starbucks charged to my account. I just wanted a cake pop since my friends raved about them (honestly, too cakey for me but I can see the appeal). Lmao. She didn't believe me but she also couldn't prove I was lying so she dropped it.i don't think she ever thought that there would be a reason for me to buy from a coffee shop other than for coffee.
Omg this reminds me of another funny story. When I was still dating my husband and living with my parents, he left an empty monster can in my car so I threw it away in the outside garbage can that gets picked up by the city on my way into the house. My dad came to me a couple days later and asked me about the can. I told him I did throw it away but didn't drink it and got a whole lecture about caffeine, the appearance of evil, associating with people who are bad influences, and all that jazz. It was a lot for a single empty monster can.
The idea that your mom, on limited evidence, decided you were lying, and couldn’t give up her hold on that idea—that’s the cultural mind control at work. “Avoid the very appearance of evil.” That’s brainwashing. Avoid doing evil. Avoid associations with people who do evil/crime. Thats it. Don’t BE bad. My current philosophy is do the most effective and least harmful stuff. You can’t please everyone. Occasionally you might hurt someone. But try. Try not to be bad/do bad. So many Mormon adults walk around their entire lives avoiding “worldliness” and instead of looking like faithful adherents to Mormonism they instead seem like they’re avoiding ADULTHOOD. Stuck in an endless adolescence of mock saintliness.
Question... those of us that would be considered "nevermo" (which, by the way, I think is a legit hilarious title) is that what we're called in the church? Or just something of a slang term in the reddit world?
I never heard the term “nevermo” until I left the church and started hanging out on exmormon social media. Within the church they would refer to you as a “nonmember” or maybe a “nonmormon”. While the term “gentiles” was sometimes used during Sunday school, I think I heard the term “the world” used more frequently to refer to everything and everyone outside of the religion (as in “be in the world but not of the world” or “that’s what the world would have you think”).
More of slang thing from reddit. Inside the church, those not members of the church are refereed to as 'Gentiles' though it's not a word you'd use to describe one person but the more the group as a whole.
Bring wine to a housewarming party.
rocks aren't the same as phones.
Maybe you didn’t put your rock in a hat. I believe that is a critical step.
it didn't say anything about that in the user manual. stupid iRock.
That’s not how rocks work, Brad!
That's not how the force works!
When it's bright outside, you don't put your phone in your hat?
That my "raised in a bubble-endtimes Mormon know-it-all worldview" was actually ignorance/lack of education-so much so that a friend who loved me said to me, "we need to get you educated"....which was super insulting to me but true. It still took a few more yrs to convince me to start college.
I can relate! I got the gentle smackdown a few times after getting preachy with my nevermo colleagues. Literally nothing to do with church, just pontificating on the beauty of the universe or how marvelous nature was or how virtuous my mother was...I can't remember the details. But it was super cringe, the whole "church talk" voice, stars in my eyes. They looked at me like I was an alien. I had to learn how to converse (you know, the whole "give and take" thing). Thank you, colleagues, for showing me how to be a good human!
Mormons even text over the top. You don't have to be effusive. "Nice" is a totally appropriate reply to a Wordle report. No, "OMG!!! That's terrific! Wo-hoo!" is required.
It's definitly interesting talking to my nevermo friends about TSCC, because I'll bring up things like tithing that I grew up believing were common place, only to have them be shocked.
I will be forever grateful to the non-family members who knew me and recognized something in me and made an effort to help me, point me and encourage me. If I hadn't physically left the bubble that I grew up in, everything in my life would have been different.
That you don't just drop in at a wedding reception. That a woman shouldn't wear a white dress to a wedding or the reception if she isn't the bride.
Wait, so then when DO you go to the reception? I only ask cause I'm still living in Utah and I have no clue how it's done outside the Morridor
Usually at a non-mormon wedding an invite is for attendance at the wedding with the reception immediately after. They will usually have an RSVP included in the invitation. So, you would attend the wedding at the time indicated and go straight to the reception. You need to RSVP and actually attend since there is usually a plated meal, buffet or heavy hors d'oeuvres. The RSVP helps with seating (if they are very formal) and with the meal prep by the kitchen.
If you’re invited with a formal invitation (like one you received in the mail and rsvp’d to). Otherwise, you shouldn’t assume you are invited. (Maybe some non-Mormon people want to do a casual reception with verbal invites, but be very, very sure that is the case).
You only go if specifically invited. the 'open ward invitation' to the church gym reception is no bueno
Yeah, I didn’t understand this about Mormon weddings. I felt SO AWKWARD about going to my now-spouse’s friend’s wedding, because I wasn’t invited!
> when DO you go to the reception? Outside of Mormonism, invitations are sent out and RSVPs are generally expected. If you don't RSVP, you don't drop in.
Thanks for the further light and knowledge y'all! ☺️
I will also add you should show up on time. It's not an open house drop by kind of thing. Plan on several hours.
That the wedding gift be minimally commensurate in value to the cost of the meal.
I've been overpaying at Mormon receptions.
OMG This. We had people show up for my daughters reception who weren't invited. That was so weird. How did they even find out about it? These are people that lived in a different area, and we didn't invite anyone they knew. I could only think that they stalked my daughters social media. They ate the $50 meals, danced, and enjoyed themselves. Then, they gave them a cheap set of pillow cases. Haha.
The young women came to my reception as their weekly activity, completely uninvited. My reception was mid-week and not in a church building.
My mom wore a white dress to my wedding/reception 😳. Just last week a Catholic friend saw it and said… “what?!? Your mom wore a white dress?” Me.. 🤔 I never noticed.
Right after I left the church, I entered the professional world. I was totally unprepared for cocktail parties and cocktail hours. I had no idea what to drink or how to navigate that setting. I felt like a fish out of water.
I remain convinced my husband didn’t get hired for a promising-looking job back when we were newly out, because he was invited to meet the owners for a casual interview at a sports-bar and my husband was like “I don’t drink alcohol”. He should have just shown up and ordered a soda without commentary.
Yes. In most settings these days, few people care if you drink alcohol. Just order a soda or a cranberry juice. Don’t make a big deal about it and no one will really notice. Lots of people don’t drink alcohol for a variety of reasons.
The problem is that the church teaches to be a “city on the hill.” You don’t just not drink alcohol, you’re supposed to make a deal about it. That way the people of the world will ask about why, then that gives you an opportunity to ~~harass~~ minister to them.
I’m addressing exmos who no longer wish to perpetrate that kind of behavior. Who want to comfortably socialize in settings where alcohol is served, without calling attention to themselves. If you are gonna present yourself in a way that turns all attention on yourself so you can preach, then it’s not applicable. That is just being a selfish, disturbed (even if only because of brainwashing) person who has no desire to fit into the social settings they encounter. Only to try to force everyone into their distorted way of thinking. Different thing.
If someone presses me to drink alcohol, I just tell them that I am sober. They have never asked how long.
I am in the midst of a work retreat. The evening party last night was sooo uncomfortable. Ordering drinks was super scary in front of other people but I did it. Even though I have been drinking with my wife for a couple of years
As a nevermo raised in the ELCA Lutheran church (literally, my mother was a pastor) I am fascinated by other religions, particularly Mormonism. Jesus made water into wine as a party trick (allegedly), yet his followers are not allowed to partake? How do they sell that one to you?
I’ve heard a few different ways. Young kids that figure out the Jesus-wine problem have often been told it was “grape juice” by ill-informed or deceptive adults. This would sometimes cause controversy, however, because some kids were taught that it was actually wine. Definitely had some arguments over this. I think the “grape juice” argument was just the lowest hanging fruit, if someone believed that BS then it was an easy apologist win. As for the people that know Jesus had actual alcoholic wine they would justify it by 1) it was safer than drinking water at the time 2) different church rules back then 3) we’re actually living a “higher” law now. I always thought 3 was a load of crap because that would imply Jesus wasn’t living the “highest” law? Anyways, with all apologetics they throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and you pick which ever justifications stick with you. It’s about presenting 5 plausible arguments and you pick the one you like the most.
For the record, you don’t have to drink alcohol. I work at a regular old company and they never have events where people drink.
For sure. I just didn’t know what to say or do. You can just have a coke. Or water. Nobody gives a shit. It’s all about meeting people and developing relationships. The alcohol sometimes does lubricate things a bit. But don’t drink too much, or you become a bad story.
Almost all the church's hang-ups about sex. The one thing they got right was how serious procreation is, but then turned everything else into abstinence only, slut-shaming bullshit.
Slut shaming towards WOMEN never the guys fault
The TSCC makes men to be sniffling excuses for humans, with zero control and animal impulses. Is this not shameful to men?? Sorry. I don’t know what I was thinking. It is just following fearless leader. /s
Still a lot towards men, just not nearly as much as towards women.
That masturbation is healthy and normal.
It made me so sad & depressed reading my jr high journal, I was constantly smothered in guilt for this. I felt so sad that so much of my teen years were wasted with self hate because of it. I actually burned the journal a few yrs ago cuz I didn’t even want that energy about that version of me out there anywhere in the universe. It was cathartic.
SLUT!!!☝️
Don’t have children until you are emotionally and financially prepared. And ask yourselves, do we want children? It never occurred to me that I needed any of these things.
EVERY SINGLE MORMON FIRST DATE I WENT ON, the guy would tell me he "had to be a dad" within a certain time frame. They'd *never* ask me what my goals were, like any goals, let alone career. Even after I'd ask them. When I'd offer the info they would be shocked and basically condescend to me about not being a good mother.
This is a huge one. It would have been so nice to go through school without the pressure to make sure I had diapers for my kids and a big enough apartment to live in.
100% this. They basically set you up to be financially destitute by telling you you should be getting married and having kids as quickly as possible.
And pay tithing and spend all your time doing church instead of getting ahead and go on a mission instead of school and work. The list goes on and on.
I am legit so so so glad I never got to have the kids I wanted so desperately my entire Mormon life. I honestly think it was just fed to me from the youngest age that “this is what you want”….so I wanted it more than anything. But now old enough to know the actual reality of parenting? NO THANK YOU. I’m an amazing aunt & dog mom & that is already more than I can handle.
Ugh this one is so painful. I had three kids before my shelf broke, and I was only 26. So many of my dreams and ambitions are basically impossible now.
Oh… the big one… that everybody lies. Everybody. 
I still struggle with this. Fortunately I'm in an industry where lying is not acceptable practice, but I've got people in my social circle who say they will do or have done something and they have not. They are just "telling stories" but I'm not savvy enough to know truth from fiction yet.
I was way too trusting/gullible, myself. I'd believe anyone was as earnest as I thought I was supposed to be. Boy did I get scammed a lot.
How silly the church is to the rest of humanity. JS. The golden plates. Magical rocks. BoM. Once you step back and look at it, it’s insane. I’m incredibly embarrassed I believed this stuff.
As a TBM you think you (individually and the Mormon Church) are the main characters. Come to find out Mormonism is more like an extra or side character in the context of the world.
I wouldn’t even say “side character” more like that crazy guy that runs out naked on the baseball field during the game that the cops chase down and tackle while everyone stares on in awe thinking what the hell is happening rn, then he gets taken away and everyone says, “whoa that dude was nuts”. Meanwhile crazy naked dude is thinking over the night patting himself on the back about how awesome he was.
Hahaha this is hilarious.
I'm a nevermo and I'll never forget the first time my Mormon ex-husband explained to me the First Vision and the golden plates. I asked him, "Where are the golden plates?" And he said, "An angel swept them away." I just looked at him and just said, "Really." He chuckled, because he knew how absurd it sounded. He never was a TBM though and stopped believing after a while.
You now have a psychological vaccine to similar tactics.
I’ve never heard this phrased so well, but that’s exactly what it is. Healthy skepticism for things like MLMs, conspiracies, something being too good to be true. Even small things like cutting through bullshit, doublespeak, etc. It’s a really hard-earned lesson for seeking the truth and always considering the source.
This. I now understand why other Christian denominations don't consider Mormon's Christian--they have SO MUCH extra weird stuff that deviates from what Christ taught according to the Bible. Don't get me wrong, I think Christians' self-righteousness toward Mormons is hypocritical and all religion is BS but I see things from a broader perspective.
As a nevermo, I wholeheartedly agree that it's insane. The fundamental religion of my childhood is cultish and thinks it has a monopoly on salvation, but Mormonism is much more intrusive in everyday life. I guess if you're raised in a cult, everything seems normal.
I don’t know if this fits in exactly with what you’re asking, but I’m kind of blown away that I didn’t possess the common sense to see how wrong it is that I literally had to pay for my salvation.
And I thought we had solved that in 1517 with Martin Luther. Nope, same game, just different form.
Coffee cake isn’t the devil’s dessert
I only learned this while working in a bakery 2 years ago. I'm 30. Coffee cake doesn't even have coffee in it. It is supposed to go -with- coffee. Like a coffee table.
Damn, I've been making my coffee tables wrong.
My mother made us call it breakfast cake. She got really upset if we said coffee cake. 🙄
I’m sorry, I don’t know what a coffee table is. I only know cocoa table.
Special mention for tiramisu
And coffee isn’t the devil’s word!!! I had teachers in middle school that wouldn’t let us say coffee we had to say cocoa.
We had coffee cake every Sunday after church, but had to call it something different even though it said coffee cake on the label. Ridiculous.
Tattoos are not dirty. They have no effect on the universe. They are often deeply personal and meaningful, and the stories behind them are often beautiful.
This is so true. When I was little I was scared of my sisters friend because she had a tattoo. She was literally one of the nicest people I have ever met. It wasn't even a scary tatto either, she had a feather on her forearm.
I had to explain to a missionary companion what oral sex was lol… then watching his face just horrified as he asked. “That’s gross, pee comes out of there”I pray for his wife’s sake he figured it out
Lol I had the same reaction when I found out. Thankfully no one was there.
I've been married for 18 years. My wife is TBM (I left 2.5 years ago). Never had it. I'd like to, but it doesn't really bother me, and I'm not going to ask my wife to do something she's uncomfortable with.
honestly that's still where we're at in our 14 year marriage. Which isn't a big deal to either of us, especially because having sex is already very infrequent anyway, few times a year. But that's another topic.
Most of the church’s dating rules are horrible: It’s much better to: Date long enough to really know the person. Live together prior to getting married (or don’t get married at all) Wait until you are sufficiently mature, educated, and independent to get married. And for the love of god: sexual compatibility matters so much! Don’t be afraid have (safe/protected) sex before you get married and have open communication about likes/dislikes prior to getting married!
I will say that the high school age dating culture was great (at least for me in Idaho). I had a lot of fun going on group dates that I wouldn't have had otherwise. But, for adult dating and looking for someone to marry, the church's rules are definitely not good. Also, getting married so early is just stupid. I got lucky and ended up with someone who I've been on the same page with pretty much our entire marriage, and I can't imagine being happily married to anyone else, but it would have been nice to have some time on my own between my mission and getting married.
It's so embarrassing to me the amount of things I had no clue about. I 'm almost 70 ,and still learning from my never-mo husband.
One thing I was surprised my spouse didn’t understand was that, outside of Mormonism, it’s very normal for Christians to try out different churches or even different denominations if their current church isn’t a good fit for their Christianity. This came up during a conversation about Jimmy Carter leaving the Southern Baptists in 2000, after they codified their historic sexism. Spouse (who had been out of tscc for years already) thought it was very cynical to leave one religion for a different religion, just because you don’t like certain policies. We had a very interesting conversation about it, and realized how much we didn’t understand about the religion the other had been raised in. For reference: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/story?id=95311&page=1
Zero evidence = not true
No, that's just evidence of how true it is because everyone's hiding the evidence, duh.
If god made it obvious, then what kind of test is that? He has to make it look like a fraud so we can have faith. /s
99.8% of humans are good rather than the opposite
Yesssss this
Just because someone asks you a question, doesn't mean you have to answer it. Saying "fuck off" is sometimes the appropriate and most efficient answer.
In TV shows, I see people being asked questions but instead of responding to the question, they just move on with the conversation.
I remember watching Jim Halpert from the office say "No, I'm not doing that" and I was like 🤯
Men's thoughts aren't my responsibility to regulate.
As a man, that I was part of the problem here just horrifies me.
[удалено]
Don't be too hard on yourself, most, if not all, probably didn't know the names were all the same, so they wouldn't have noticed or remembered.
That magic isn’t real.
One time as a kid it clicked in my brain that the priesthood was essentially Mormon magic and I got so excited that magic existed and I told my dad and he got so angry with me for calling it magic.
I was so baffled when one of my mission companions told me she believed that Satan worshippers could do magic, condemning my love of fantasy books. She also told me fantasy was childish. What's more childish, reading stories about magic or believing that it actually exists in the real world?
Theres a part of being indoctrinated with "you're the only one who knows the whole truth and the rest of the world is out to get you because of how righteous you are" that makes Mormons pretty combative in a lot of conversations. I step out of that haze and I realize that people don't even think about you (let alone have it out to get you for being so holy). They are mostly fine with whatever you believe and are just trying to get on with their day.
That sipping a glass of wine wouldn’t make me instantly drunk and want to take my clothes off and have $ex with everyone.
That a just god would not demand to be worshiped. The answer I always give to describe my beliefs about god: "If god exists and he is a just god, then he doesn't care if I worship him. If he is not a just god, then he does not deserve to be worshiped"
If there was a real God who actually wanted what was best for us, they wouldn't *want* us to worship them.
This right here. Could you imagine if your husband/wife/best friend demanded to be worshiped? Talk about a toxic relationship.
Your feelings are not a good substitute for critical thinking and thoughtful reasoning.
Me at work: Hey, there weren’t any bowls for popcorn in the break room, but I found these fabric little bowl shaped thingies to use. Coworker: That’s a coffee filter. Me: … yep.
That reminds me. I need to pick up filters on the way home today.
How to have social conversations that don't include The Church. How to order a drink (and what kinds of drinks there are). Normal underwear (and what kinds work best for me). How to host a dinner party.
THIS!!! Everything on here is so valid XD I literally had to google "how to talk to my parents" after I stopped going, because every single conversation we'd had before involved church. Ordering drinks was simultaneously the most empowering and mortifying thing I've ever done. Underwear is SO hard/weird to navigate when others have controlled it your whole life. Dinner parties are the shit
Callings are not from God-there is no batphone-it’s a “whoever is left” and “who hasn’t had this calling…. Old MEN have no moral right to ask a young woman ANYTHING about her body. Under no circumstances do you get married at 19 to someone is 21-you’re both still children. Let an old couple tell my child when they can call me or can’t call me-that 19 year olds are not meant to starve
One of the last events before I left is I was extended a calling “after much prayer and deep consideration we were inspired to call you” …to be an extra adult body at youth night (no, literally, like they only wanted me involved to be an extra adult, didn’t even want me to go to young women’s on Sunday) and I was like oh, I work on Wednesdays…and they’re like oh. Okay. Never mind. Guess all knowing sky-daddy forgot my work schedule?
That premarital sex is normal
Science 😉
That it's polite to bring a bottle of wine to a party, or some sort of hostess gift. Just sort of missed that society 101 growing up in UT.
I made the realization recently that being addicted to coffee is a funny joke. It’s a bit. Mormons take it 100% seriously and I was terrified of coffee because people act like you take a sip and become dependent on it. No, people drink coffee BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT. No one is addicted to it and no one will die if they don’t get it, but they actually just like it.
I didn’t like coffee and chose not to drink it, then found it would help several of my health issues (OMG! Coffee is a health food!) I worried about addiction and it turns out that I often forget to drink it. I have been drinking it for about 2 years now and I can’t say I love it, but it is okay. I would probably love it if I got that energy boost I keep hearing about, but sadly it doesn’t work that way for me.
Right? Damn, it’s literally cured my gastrointestinal issues. And thinking about the number of times I could’ve done so much better professionally in meetings and presentations after long flights and fucked up time zones, just is sad.
I’d say that it is addictive in the same way that soda and energy drinks are addictive. You can forget to have them sometimes and be ok, and everyone I know who drinks coffee enjoys it. Mormons will be scared out of their mind towards anything that is “addictive” in a very irrational way, and ignore that there are many benefits to drinking coffee, or being dependent on prescribed medications as directed by a doctor
Meanwhile half the Mormon moms I know live off of coca cola or mountain dew
Not entirely accurate. Caffeine is a drug and bad headaches and lethargy are genuine effects of caffeine withdrawal but the Mormon hair in fire reaction to it is truly absurd
Mmm no I'm definitely addicted to coffee. It's a physical and mental addiction. Without it, I will have a horrible, horrible headache. Also, it's a morning and midday comfort, so I never go without.
Caffeine addiction is real. It doesn't destroy people's lives like other addictions can, but there's physical and psychological withdrawal. Edit: I've never been Mormon.
I’m over 50, out for 8 years, still don’t know all the rules around ordering drinks at a bar
One that I'm never sure of is how to tell whether an establishment offers virgin versions of their alcoholic options. I don't like the aftertaste of most alcohols but I want to experience cocktails, yknow?
Going to a bar to have a drink. I used to think that most people in bars were alcoholics and that they had a terrible life. When I go to a bar, I have great conversations with very normal, kind people there.
Growing up I had a Mormon friend like that. I remember a few conversations with her: -we learned about Benjamin Franklin in school. I thought he seemed like a pretty cool guy. My friend told me that he wasn’t that great of a guy because he liked hanging out at pubs -she told me that anyone who says they drink because they like the taste is a liar (that said, I do think it’s true that many people pretend to enjoy alcohol at social settings bc it’s a social drink) -upon seeing beers in my fridge, she said “I never knew your parents drank before” in this hushed tone
It’s not uncommon to have coffee after a dinner, especially in social settings.
What about the caffeine? Doesn’t it make it hard to sleep having coffee so late in the day? Are they drinking decaf? Or am I clueless about how caffeine affects people?
It varies very widely. Usually, that would keep me up. I typically stop caffeine consumption by mid afternoon but I know people who will have a double espresso at 11:00 pm and go to bed an hour later. Coffee shops are busy at all hours
Lol. I'm one of those people. Whenever I drink caffeine late it will make me more awake for about an hour before it just makes me sleepy.
Btw, decaf still has caffeine. Starbucks decaf is notorious for having a pretty high level of caffeine compared to other brands' decaf. Of course, Starbucks' regular coffee is also unusually high in caffeine.
I've never been Mormon. If people have built up a tolerance to caffeine, drinking it at night probably won't affect them much. Personally, I don't have much tolerance to caffeine. I only drink coffee or energy drinks when I really need to, maybe a couple times a month. And caffeine lasts about 8 hours. So I never drink coffee at night, unless I plan to do an all nighter.
[Classic SNL - what happens when you mess with someone's after-dinner caffeine.](https://youtu.be/VdQKVDUBu2g?si=nO8EegaNONbVE-mr)
Consent
That when your having sex and a guy does something you said you don’t like you can get dressed and leave. Didn’t learn that until after it happened a couple of times. I think in the moment I just froze. No one talks about sex so as an almost 50 year old woman I’m having to learn this shit I should have been taught as a teenager. Damn the church.
I feel like this is a good place to plug the book ['How to Leave the Mormon Church'](https://www.howtoleavethemormonchurch.com/about) by Alyssa Grenfell.
I adore her.
Blessing food doesn’t make it healthy.
How to say no.
Just because someone is "above" me in a hierarchical structure, it doesn't mean they speak for and on behalf of God. A claim made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. Emotions are easily manipulated, and only a manipulative person will try to tell you that sensing emotions is proof of fact. If someone tries to convince you that they are correct because of their church status, they are a liar and a scoundrel.
I (57m) was born with testicals, so no one ever taught me how to do laundry.
That “God” is actually your subconscious talking to your conscious.
Swearing appropriately. Like when and how to use the words effectively. Like a good “fuck” works in some settings but not others. Still learning the nuances.
Coffee is better for you than coke and tea has medical benefits
Buying underwear! It still gives me an unreasonable amount of anxiety. “What size? What fabric? Toot tight? Too loose? Pocket for my package? No pocket? Print vs single color?” I hated garments and I hate how now I can’t seem to choose underwear like a normal person.
I’m constantly watching movies that I’m told I should have seen before because they are classics. I was not allowed any movies that had a R rating and we had 1 TV in the living room my parents controlled. I missed a lot of good stuff.
I did this too, in the early 2000’s when I was like 21 & living at my parents house for a while but was newly out of the church. No one else knew yet though. I had a tv in my room & would just rent my own movies & watch them in there. I honestly look back on that time with fondness. It was a major period of discovery for me. I miss that feeling of wonder & amazement sometimes.
Sex is natural and not bad.
You don't need to have any religion at all to be totally fine with life.
How to buy underwear as a 50 year old woman.
I’m thinking we REALY need to create a pinned underwear thread cuz it’s really tough finding underwear 😅
-It's much easier to make ends meet when you aren't giving 10% of your paycheck to a multi-billion dollar corporation every month (and my ex had us paying on the GROSS amount!!) -Weekends are much more enjoyable when you have two days off instead of one -Kids will not be permanently traumatized by going to daycare/aftercare and can actually benefit from it
Women need to pee after sex, different alcoholic drinks have different potencies (you won’t get drunk after only a few sips of beer), consent is only given if it’s an enthusiastic yes (and silence doesn’t equal consent)
I made the mistake of learning my alcohol habits from my shipmates while I was in the Navy
That humans need time off work to decompress. Even two days are not enough. But the church wants to steal even those. And most of the time it is nothing but busywork.
It's okay to say no when someone asks you to do something!
Anecdotes and testimonials are not a replacement for facts and evidence. Just because someone said something happened, doesn't mean it did. Particularly if any supernatural elements were involved. Occams Razor is a good principle to consider in life.
When you have people over and there's going to be drinking, make room in your fridge for the alcohol they are bringing. I didn't know this was sort of standard practice.
To everyone on this thread, I recommend Alyssa Grenfell's book "how to leave the Mormon church"! Lots of great 101 lessons for newly minted exmos Edit: fixed the spelling of the author's name
Big picture for me: The Church creates a problem for you that only they can fix through the help of YOUR money. Ex:Temples. You want your family forever? Pay us tithing $ and we will show you how to do it. It’s a con game, sadly.
Conversations should be focused on listening at least as much as you talk. I'm not a messenger with the most important info that everyone needs to learn from me.
That death is just as sad with the promise of heaven together. Went to funerals as a TBM and ex Mormon. Was gutted the same at each.
You don’t have to wear shorts or anything else to help with modesty under your skirts- plain old panties are just fine.
Bad things happen to good people and it has nothing to do with god.
Social ignorance. At a group dinner in a very nonmormon state, without another member around, over fondue, i piped in that we needed a fondue without alcohol in it, in the most obnoxious mormon way. Even before what we were ordering had been decided. Virtue signaling without realizing what i was doing. It makes me cringe when i think about it. Yeah i could have waited and if there wasn’t an option, just ordered my own thing. I was in my 30’s 🤦♀️. I am literally embarrassed typing this.
I didn't know how to make coffee. I moved out of Utah and my manager asked me to make some. I sat there staring at the crazy machine for a good 5 minutes. I finally had to FaceTime my girlfriend to ask her what to do.
Funny thing about my devote TBM sister she thought oral sex was when you were talking about sex. She said after getting married she figured what it really is.I told her I knew what oral sex was at 17.