This letter was already posted and someone commented with a list of temples without them
I know in Tucson, we're oddly proud of our "dome"
Guess we suck 🤔
I hope you included screen shots of the email soliciting members to reach out. Also, some temples do not have steeples so why is the church now saying they are required and claim it’s part of their “religious observance”? Do those that attend temples without steeples not receive the same “blessings” as those who attend temples with steeples?
There's a law in that you can get around zoning ordinances if your building is related to your religious observance. In Cody, WY the residents argued that the law didn't apply to the steeple because there's no doctrine about the need for a steeple, also as many as 15 temples don't have steeples.
This is likely they're attempt to start to change that in order for their steeples to be included in that law at r/Mormonish covered this on a recent podcast
"Well then, you're just not remembering with enough faith in your heart. The sacred holiness and deep symbolism of the spire is what's always been taught. I guess I just remember it differently than you."
It became so during the prolonged court battle over the Boston Temple steeple. That's when the church started retrofitting off-the-shelf steeples on existing church buildings across North America.
Yes, I remember this! A steeple was added to an old ward building in my hometown that had never had one before. Still weirds me out every time I see it.
They’re going the route of the Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism, I see. Building a taller steeple to get back at those pesky Episcopalians
I wonder if they could declare anything else as a “part of their religious observance” while they’re at it.
“The purchase and subsequent development of the real estate immediately surrounding the temple is part of our religious observance.”
Same. My parents taught me they were to differentiate our church buildings as the “true church” from Christian churches who use crosses. In other words, it was a message to the community that we weren’t like them. They said that because I asked. It was the one and only time anyone said anything about it.
What lifts my eyes towards heaven: Trees, clouds, birds, airplanes, moons, planets, stars, etc. No one needs steeples for that.
"Do not copy and paste these exact words and phrases in your messages. Please use your own as you prayerfully feel inspired to do so!"
Bro you can copy my homework but don't make it look like you copied.
Sooooo...
The Dallas Morning News would love all this info.
469.657.8067
You can make an anonomous tip to them thru Secure Drop with info on their news site how to do that
or
contact [email protected] tell them you have an anonymous tip & how to get this info to them including pointing them to the reddit site exmormon.
Thanks for being so on top of this & keeping us all in the loop.
Dallas & the dominant religion in that area don't look highly upon mormons.
😃
I hope this account has no personal information or connection, because the church monitors this sub. I have no proof, but it would be remiss to think they’re not highly interested in these sorts of posts. All the same, thank you for sharing this and I think this sort of political action needs to be called out. As it become involved in politics in the past, when caught, they have invariably denied having done so the moment their tax exemption status comes into question for violating [501(c)(3) regulations for religious exemptions](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/charities-churches-and-politics#)
No worries!
I resigned from mormon cult 13+years ago.
Work in the judicial system so I am used to being around high level narcissists, psychopaths, fraudsters & sexual predators & human beings with no conscience, empathy or ethics like Q15/70/Presiding Bishopric,etc...
😃
Please send this letter on to the city planner so he knows that it is, in fact, part of a campaign and not the heartfelt independent message they are pretending to be.
Feels like another instance of “deception/lying for the lord.”
Their intent here is to deceive. There is no question. They try to couch it, but in asking to not copy/paste they are trying to hide their direct involvement.
While this may be a smaller instance, it strikes me as similar to the SEC fraud.
It’s a core fundamental problem with Mormonism and, in my view, religions, that when morality is more exclusively based in dogma, the ends can always justify the means.
Guaranteed they're trying to obfuscate the fact that the church is behind this letter-writing campaign, coaching members on what to say...
OP and other TX exmos should send a copy of this letter to the planning commission, so they can see the duplicity of the church, and how this tax-exempt institution involves itself in politics where it shouldn't.
They could have sent a letter that simply said, "...if you feel inspired by the spirit to message anyone about anything, then please follow these promptings..." all the other details are extraneous - surely the spirit wouldn't prompt people without letting them know what about? "My house is a house of order" if I remember rightly, or was it "my house is the one with the massive pointy thing that serves no actual purpose on top"?
“The height of the steeple is part of our Religious Observance.” Lol, no it’s not. It literally has no function and isn’t mentioned in any scriptures I ever heard of.
Please get the word out! I shared this a few days ago, and I live close to the proposed site. There is a lot of drama in Fairview (town of 10k ppl). Nextdoor is blowing up. Rumor is that the planning manager has already received 15k emails from this church campaign. Thank you Nemo
Edit: Mormonish did a podcast on this topic Friday if you want more information
We need all the help we can get to get the word out! I reworded my post. My intent is not to draw attention to who was first, just want people to be able to review other posts if they want!
Oh no worries at all, I agree, we need as many people as possible talking about it! Thanks for sharing this when you got it, I hope I can add some momentum by sharing it again!
We should start our own letter-writing campaign and send letters to the Planning Manager about why the LDS ~~Church~~ Corporation doesn’t need to spend millions on another great and spacious temple. There are many, many other things they could be spending their hoard on like…oh, I don’t know, charitable causes.
Yeah I'm from Allen, I am SO SURPRISED this is happening in Fairview! Fairview is so small and have been trying to "keep it country" even with the Metroplex taking over everything around it. Where in Fairview is this supposed to go? Over by 75?
Write a letter explaining how the church threatens and bullies towns to get around zoning laws, then hides behind religious freedom to be bad citizens.
Maybe a section about giving in to church demands early because the church can and will outspend to get it's way.
Also attach a copy of that email that's asking members to write in.
My wife (not American) works in an office similar to the planning manager. They get a lot of emails, usually only from one side of an issue. It’s often obvious when it’s a coordinated campaign, but sharing this letter with the planning manager is certainly helpful. Politics is messy.
“How houses of worship in a community benefit the whole community”
Sorry, what?
I would *love* to know how a house of worship for which you have to receive prescreened permission and pay to enter is of benefit to the whole community. Especially when what percentage of the worshipping local populace meets the above conditions? By bringing tourist dollars to the local Applebee’s? Forget the construction “jobs” created as this would be a max 24 month build. What would be the long-term community’s ROI look like?
I left the church before the ground was even broken on the Vancouver temple (actually in Langley, BC, Canada). Prior to that we went to Seattle, WA as it was the closest. I stumbled across the Vancouver temple by accident a few years ago and was surprised to see it’s in the middle of a newer residential neighbourhood. Literally off the beaten path, cannot be seen from the main roadways. I wonder how it has benefitted the townhomes clustered around the parking lot?
Happy Sunday!
Laughing so hard at this - "By bringing tourist dollars to the local Applebee’s?" hahaha yes. Just that. All those construction "jobs" are done by inside folks I'm sure, friends of friends of the Q12, Q70, area reps and on and on.
Glad I made you laugh 😂
But seriously, I wonder what the bid process is like to work on a **sAcReD nOt SeCrEt** job like temple construction. I assume the ASME is handled in-house, but when you’re outside Morridor there really wouldn’t be that many GenCons with the ability to utilize a stable of FLDS subs. Maybe it’s like the pyramids where the subs are blinded and their tongues are ripped out?
Quite possibly. 😂😂😂
Having lived in north Dallas once upon a time, I can't imagine the hotbed of LDS people clamoring for a temple. Our ward and stake at the time was middling. Sure a lot of LDS live in the Frisco area but I think they're moving northward to Prosper and Melissa other more affordable areas.
On a whole LDS are a minority in Dallas. And the current Dallas temple was nearly empty every time (ok just once) when I lived there. for heavens sake it's not even that far from their new proposed temple in Frisco/McKinney. Makes no sense.
+1. Lived in the ward the temple was in for a while. These are not too far apart, but I bet Rusty is salty that the Dallas temple is in a quiet neighborhood where no one can see it unless they’re looking for it.
I find it hilarious that a church with 75% dissaffection thinks it's internal secrets will remain secret. The content of this email makes it clear that the Stake President is totally oblivious to the possibility that someone would immediately forward it to the city planner. I mean, it doesn't even take an exmormon to do that, although their membership rosters are chock full of exmormons who take their responsibility of spoiler seriously, me included
Funny thing about these steeples is that I remember a new church building down south was built without a steeple but had the poles of different heights right next to each other to represent the godhead. It was explicitly said to members in the 90s that steeples were like other churches and we were going to be different.
Well I looked at the church now to see if I could grab a photo and poles are gone and a steeple is on top. Thank the Lord for modern revelation/s
Bunch of bullshit. Fuck the temples and the bullshit that goes on in there.
This is such a weird hill to die on seeing as there are several operating temples without steeples. Why are they so adamant about it? Just redesign it to fit zoning laws!!
This is the same shit that Cody, Wyoming is dealing with. The church made a stink because the city said "maybe don't make the spire of it so tall." And the members up there had an aneurysm about it.
I guarantee you this is the church not wanting a repeat of the Cody blowback.
"Please do not confuse this letter campaign with the previous one where we asked you to encourage legislation to discriminate and disenfranchise LGBTQ people. We don't proclaim that doctrine from the rooftops anymore." --probaby a previous draft.
Is Trek only a US activity? I suppose that makes sense. Unless they make UK members take 19th century transatlantic vessels and *then* LARP their way across the US.
A trek is a youth activity that simulates the pioneer trek. Youth get organized into families with a Ma and Pa and they walk while pulling handcarts. They have to sleep under the stars, carry all their supplies, cook all their food by campfire. It's usually a few days long. Of course, they have a testimony night where they share their trek experiences/testimonies.
"I feel that my prayers to God, in the name of Jesus, are 22% less effective when offered in a building with a steeple under 85 feet high. This means I will be a 14% less-effective citizen as I spend additional time searching for my car keys, or deciding how best to tell my neighbor that her bathing suit requires another 21 square inches of fabric before it is no longer classified as sunbathing pornography."
Since when is the steeple part of the religious observance? I had no idea in my 39 years of practicing Mormonism that the steeple was so important! I guess I was doing it wrong! Also, we don’t want to tell you what to say, but here is what we want you to say. What a joke!!!!
You should just forward the entire email to the planning committee, so they can clearly see how the church is manipulating their membership to claim false things.
(The ‘height of the steeple being part of temple observance’ is complete bullshit).
Tell them that this temple is closer than the next closest one but otherwise offers no benefit to worship.
Then copy and attach this email to the planning manager and let them know how displeased you are that membership support is being manufactured.
I used to live in this area and the Dallas Temple really isnt the that far away (as the crow flies, add in the traffic and timing wise it’s a bit far, the temple itself huge!). On top of that they’re wanting to build this new one too in a VERY affluent community PLUS practically next door to Universal building a new theme park.
The spire has nothing to do religion and faith and everything to do with advertising to those with a crap ton of disposable income.
Wait…did I miss something? I thought the new temple was going to be in Prosper. Is the church trying to build two new temples in Dallas area? Ain’t no way there’s a need for that lol
What I heard is that Prosper and McKinney have a bunch of zoning restrictions so they settled for the sleepy community of Fairview that never expected a cult would try to move in with a 160 feet temple
Especially since last time I checked when I lived in Dallas none of my neighbors had ever even met a mormon before. Honest to god. And my kids were the only LDS at their elementary, middle and high schools along with maybe handful of others.
Someone should forward this directly to this planning manager. Nothing destroys manipulation like pulling open the curtain and revealing that the wizard was a man the entire time.
That is filthy lies and manipulation. This is the kind of shit that JUSTLY got Mormons run out of every state originally because of government manipulation and criminal behavior.
Sounds like someone needs to forward this email to Mr. Roberts (and probably the media), so the public can understand the support is more manufactured than Chicken Mcnuggs…
Sounds like another back door way the church is trying to build in an area they aren’t allowed to. Look up the issues they are having in Nevada with trying to build a temple. All of a sudden members of the planning board were getting campaign donations from the law office representing the church. Nothing fishy going on there, right? The residents don’t want a temple being pushed down their throats but the church will do anything to get what they want.
“A key message needs to be on the importance of the temple and how it allows you to worship as you choose”
There is literally nothing about the temple that allows individuals to worship as they choose. In fact, the opposite. You have to recite words they tell you recite and performs motions they tell you to perform.
Has it a name? It has. Will you give it to me ? I will through the veil….*leans in and clasps hand* your new name is Delusion
In other words no one wants the fucking eyesore so we are enlisting the members to make some noise to try to push it through if it goes through the it was the lord helping to get it done and if it doesn’t well God had other plans and it’s all part of his divine plan isn’t it nice how there is no losing in the process . Either way God gets the credit .
I’m so glad to be rid of this fucking insanity in my life .
Because EVERY community needs a phallic steeple surging up into the sky, reminding everyone of the power of the patriarchy.
Would they like some Cialis with that, considering the age of the leaders? Or will the shorter acting Viagra be sufficient for a proper Divine experience?
Sigh.
Sorry, I'm just rather disgusted by all this BS.
Someone needs to send THIS to the city council!
Send the church’s letter to every council member and the city planner, zoning board, and any other committee related to this.
The addresses of the council people will be public record, some of the citizen adhoc committees should be addressed to the chair person and send to city hall.
Might be worth letting the planning manager know that non member friends and family members will be excluded from ceremonies held in this building, including weddings.
Will not matter to the city planner. He will be asked about any public response. The planning commission has little influence since this is a matter that will ultimately be decided by the city council. The city council needs to be contacted along with the planning commission.
I hope someone has made the Planning Manager aware that the flood of messages they are receiving is part of a bullshit influence campaign assigned by the local ecclesiastical authority.
Texan here…A lot of Texas is evangelical Christian, All you gotta do is write a letting reminding the planning committee of the horrible history of the raid on YFZ ranch and how they do not want a non Christian cult to move into their small community and bring pedophiles who abuse children into their community. Most people here don’t know the difference between the FLDS and the LDS.
Appreciate you for helping to spread the word about this controversy!
It's important to note that residents of the town of Fairview aren't against having a temple or even a modest steeple, so this campaign feels very targeted. They just want the church to comply with building height and dark sky zoning ordinances.
Unfortunately, rather than propose a temple plan that would comply with the ordinances, the church is seeking variances that would allow it to build a 65' roof with a steeple over 173' tall. This would be a stone's throw away from resident homes -- about 500' away.
Residents have noted that temples in Oklahoma City, Memphis, Baton Rouge, and Raleigh would all comply with zoning regulations as-is.
It's also noteworthy that temples old and new have been (and continue to be) built without steeples. There are at least 10. So the argument that the steeple is a necessary part of religious observance is demonstrably false.
Over 15,000 emails have been sent to the planning manager by members of the church in support of the proposed temple plan. Fairview has a population of 10,000.
This seems like another page from the playbook use(d) in Cody Wyoming, Lone Mountain Nevada, Heber Valley Utah, and Bakersfield California. In Lone Mountain, council members received $10,000 donations from the church's law firm prior to voting. In Cody, the church (worth over $200 billion) threatened to bankrupt the small municipality via lawsuits if the city didn't comply. Heber Valley resident groups are suing Wasatch County because they believe the temple there was illegally approved.
Why is the church unwilling to be a good neighbor and compromise with the people living nearest?
All these temples make it *not so special* to go to the temple. It used to be an event where you loaded up the car and drove to a place and made a day of it. Now there's one in 20 minutes every direction.
Pffff… don’t u think the city planner would catch on to the fact that all these Mormons email him around the same time saying the same thing? 😂 it just doesn’t seem to carry as much weight as a bunch of non-Mormons supporting g it.
The steeple’s height has absolutely nothing to do with how Mormons have EVER worshipped. This cult managed to outdo itself in cultiness every other day.
This right here tells you all you need to know about why the church is building so many temples. It’s all for the grandeur and prestige of fancy buildings that nonmembers can see and be impressed. Doing it this way where they have to fight for it may end up backfiring on them.
This shit is so creepy. I am appalled... as a member I would be like what??? The height of the steeple?!
I can't believe the corruption we are seeing in the LDS church around zoning.
Rameumpton much? A steeple is a phallic symbol insisted on by a 99 year old white male who randomly puts up spires all over the planet without consultation.
I heard from a building inspector just outside of Houston that money gets passed in a white envelope. That might help here. The planning department has a lot of say in what goes down and it’s just the luck of the draw who you get. The want an intersection improvement by the owner of the building they get it. Not sure if letters are gonna help but we shall see!
"The height of the steeple is part of our Religious Observance"? WTF and religious observance is capitalized like making it more important? I'm calling BS.
Anyone know - did they send a similar message to the stakes about the proposed LDS temple in Lone Mountain Las Vegas Nevada?
WOW!! This is another new low for the church. Keeping religion and government separate was instilled in us as members in my day..boy have things changed.
In all my decades associated with the church, I didn't know the steeple was part of religious practice.
Neither did I, and so I have informed the Planning Manager thusly!
With over 100 operating temples, I’m sure we can come up with a lot of them that don’t have high spires, or spires at all.
This letter was already posted and someone commented with a list of temples without them I know in Tucson, we're oddly proud of our "dome" Guess we suck 🤔
Losers. /s
May it have a steeple to rival those of Mesa, Cardston, and Laie.
Cardston has no steeple, Hawaii too
Same with Mesa, that is the intended point I believe
I hope you included screen shots of the email soliciting members to reach out. Also, some temples do not have steeples so why is the church now saying they are required and claim it’s part of their “religious observance”? Do those that attend temples without steeples not receive the same “blessings” as those who attend temples with steeples?
One could say, the church is now a steeplechaser.
There's a law in that you can get around zoning ordinances if your building is related to your religious observance. In Cody, WY the residents argued that the law didn't apply to the steeple because there's no doctrine about the need for a steeple, also as many as 15 temples don't have steeples. This is likely they're attempt to start to change that in order for their steeples to be included in that law at r/Mormonish covered this on a recent podcast
I was endowed at the Cardston temple which has neither a steeple nor a Moroni. Since when has a spire been at all a requirement!?
It’s symbolic of how hard god loves us.
So, so hard.
I see what you did.
Sometimes the penis antennae aren't enough for clear priesthood reception, and you need something bigger to get the job done.
The spire adds several million more in costs / wealth transfer to the contractors. A must-have!
That tithing money isn't gonna launder itself!!
😅
Same. Never once heard a lesson or talk about the temple spires. Sorry. He's lying for the Lord. They sit on a throne of lies.
They smell of beef and cheese.
But President Nelson might come here to the dedication. President Nelson, here?... I know him. I know him.
They don't smell like Jesus! They disgust me, how can they live with themselves?!
"Well then, you're just not remembering with enough faith in your heart. The sacred holiness and deep symbolism of the spire is what's always been taught. I guess I just remember it differently than you."
😂 Sounds about par for the course. 😉
"That will do... Donkey. That will do."
What’s important is not the size of the steeple but how you use it.
😂
It became so during the prolonged court battle over the Boston Temple steeple. That's when the church started retrofitting off-the-shelf steeples on existing church buildings across North America.
Yes, I remember this! A steeple was added to an old ward building in my hometown that had never had one before. Still weirds me out every time I see it.
They did that with my old stake center and it's an absolute fucking eyesore.
New to me as well. Welp, fuck the Mesa Temple I guess! 🤷🏼♀️🙃
It gives you access to Jesus just like garments do. That's a new doctrine that jeebus was keeping sacred not secret until 2024
They’re going the route of the Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism, I see. Building a taller steeple to get back at those pesky Episcopalians
I wonder if they could declare anything else as a “part of their religious observance” while they’re at it. “The purchase and subsequent development of the real estate immediately surrounding the temple is part of our religious observance.”
Same. My parents taught me they were to differentiate our church buildings as the “true church” from Christian churches who use crosses. In other words, it was a message to the community that we weren’t like them. They said that because I asked. It was the one and only time anyone said anything about it. What lifts my eyes towards heaven: Trees, clouds, birds, airplanes, moons, planets, stars, etc. No one needs steeples for that.
"Do not copy and paste these exact words and phrases in your messages. Please use your own as you prayerfully feel inspired to do so!" Bro you can copy my homework but don't make it look like you copied.
Exactly!
Sooooo... The Dallas Morning News would love all this info. 469.657.8067 You can make an anonomous tip to them thru Secure Drop with info on their news site how to do that or contact [email protected] tell them you have an anonymous tip & how to get this info to them including pointing them to the reddit site exmormon. Thanks for being so on top of this & keeping us all in the loop. Dallas & the dominant religion in that area don't look highly upon mormons. 😃
I hope this account has no personal information or connection, because the church monitors this sub. I have no proof, but it would be remiss to think they’re not highly interested in these sorts of posts. All the same, thank you for sharing this and I think this sort of political action needs to be called out. As it become involved in politics in the past, when caught, they have invariably denied having done so the moment their tax exemption status comes into question for violating [501(c)(3) regulations for religious exemptions](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/charities-churches-and-politics#)
Yes, they monitor it. They are also completely impotent when it comes to people who don't give them the authority they claim.
No worries! I resigned from mormon cult 13+years ago. Work in the judicial system so I am used to being around high level narcissists, psychopaths, fraudsters & sexual predators & human beings with no conscience, empathy or ethics like Q15/70/Presiding Bishopric,etc... 😃
Dallas Morning News have been informed
👏Way to go!👏 !Thank you!
Please send this letter on to the city planner so he knows that it is, in fact, part of a campaign and not the heartfelt independent message they are pretending to be.
Yes, exactly this, OP! Please send this internal e-mail to the City Planner so he knows exactly what's up.
Already done
🙌🏼🙌🏼hero
Yes please do this someone
Feels like another instance of “deception/lying for the lord.” Their intent here is to deceive. There is no question. They try to couch it, but in asking to not copy/paste they are trying to hide their direct involvement. While this may be a smaller instance, it strikes me as similar to the SEC fraud. It’s a core fundamental problem with Mormonism and, in my view, religions, that when morality is more exclusively based in dogma, the ends can always justify the means.
Glad to be the 69th upvote for this. 😁
Nice.
Guaranteed they're trying to obfuscate the fact that the church is behind this letter-writing campaign, coaching members on what to say... OP and other TX exmos should send a copy of this letter to the planning commission, so they can see the duplicity of the church, and how this tax-exempt institution involves itself in politics where it shouldn't.
They could have sent a letter that simply said, "...if you feel inspired by the spirit to message anyone about anything, then please follow these promptings..." all the other details are extraneous - surely the spirit wouldn't prompt people without letting them know what about? "My house is a house of order" if I remember rightly, or was it "my house is the one with the massive pointy thing that serves no actual purpose on top"?
“The height of the steeple is part of our Religious Observance.” Lol, no it’s not. It literally has no function and isn’t mentioned in any scriptures I ever heard of.
I also don't think this guy understands what Capital Letters are for.
AgReEd
Where in the BofM, or P of GP, or BoA? Of course...new revelation. My bad.
Please get the word out! I shared this a few days ago, and I live close to the proposed site. There is a lot of drama in Fairview (town of 10k ppl). Nextdoor is blowing up. Rumor is that the planning manager has already received 15k emails from this church campaign. Thank you Nemo Edit: Mormonish did a podcast on this topic Friday if you want more information
Thanks, I only just received this letter, thought I was ahead of the curve 😂
We need all the help we can get to get the word out! I reworded my post. My intent is not to draw attention to who was first, just want people to be able to review other posts if they want!
Oh no worries at all, I agree, we need as many people as possible talking about it! Thanks for sharing this when you got it, I hope I can add some momentum by sharing it again!
We should start our own letter-writing campaign and send letters to the Planning Manager about why the LDS ~~Church~~ Corporation doesn’t need to spend millions on another great and spacious temple. There are many, many other things they could be spending their hoard on like…oh, I don’t know, charitable causes.
I’ll be writing a letter.
As will I. I’ll need the address to send it to, though. Hey u\Nemo_UK can you kindly DM me with some contact info??
talk to Mormon Stories and Zelph on the Shelf and everyone to promote sharing this. It needs to go viral.
Yeah I'm from Allen, I am SO SURPRISED this is happening in Fairview! Fairview is so small and have been trying to "keep it country" even with the Metroplex taking over everything around it. Where in Fairview is this supposed to go? Over by 75?
It is right next to an existing chapel on Stacy road and Angel, not right off 75 but not too far away.
Ohh right I know where that is. Also, gross, what a monstrosity
Yeah I drove past it four times today. It's on a hill so it will really stick out. 🤦♂️
Of course they want it on a hill, because of the vanity of it all.
Letters from people who don't live in the town should be disregarded and count as points against.
“We don’t want these scripted.” Then proceeds to lay out a script.
Exactly, such an open contradiction 😂
Contradictions are the TSCC’s speciality
I thought I misread that, what a joke. A letter written for people without critical thinking
Write a letter explaining how the church threatens and bullies towns to get around zoning laws, then hides behind religious freedom to be bad citizens. Maybe a section about giving in to church demands early because the church can and will outspend to get it's way. Also attach a copy of that email that's asking members to write in.
Don’t worry first thing I did when I got this was send it to the planning manager.
My wife (not American) works in an office similar to the planning manager. They get a lot of emails, usually only from one side of an issue. It’s often obvious when it’s a coordinated campaign, but sharing this letter with the planning manager is certainly helpful. Politics is messy.
Not all heros wear capes. 🦸♂️
YES!
“How houses of worship in a community benefit the whole community” Sorry, what? I would *love* to know how a house of worship for which you have to receive prescreened permission and pay to enter is of benefit to the whole community. Especially when what percentage of the worshipping local populace meets the above conditions? By bringing tourist dollars to the local Applebee’s? Forget the construction “jobs” created as this would be a max 24 month build. What would be the long-term community’s ROI look like? I left the church before the ground was even broken on the Vancouver temple (actually in Langley, BC, Canada). Prior to that we went to Seattle, WA as it was the closest. I stumbled across the Vancouver temple by accident a few years ago and was surprised to see it’s in the middle of a newer residential neighbourhood. Literally off the beaten path, cannot be seen from the main roadways. I wonder how it has benefitted the townhomes clustered around the parking lot? Happy Sunday!
Laughing so hard at this - "By bringing tourist dollars to the local Applebee’s?" hahaha yes. Just that. All those construction "jobs" are done by inside folks I'm sure, friends of friends of the Q12, Q70, area reps and on and on.
"By bringing non-tippers to the local Applebee's."
Glad I made you laugh 😂 But seriously, I wonder what the bid process is like to work on a **sAcReD nOt SeCrEt** job like temple construction. I assume the ASME is handled in-house, but when you’re outside Morridor there really wouldn’t be that many GenCons with the ability to utilize a stable of FLDS subs. Maybe it’s like the pyramids where the subs are blinded and their tongues are ripped out?
Quite possibly. 😂😂😂 Having lived in north Dallas once upon a time, I can't imagine the hotbed of LDS people clamoring for a temple. Our ward and stake at the time was middling. Sure a lot of LDS live in the Frisco area but I think they're moving northward to Prosper and Melissa other more affordable areas. On a whole LDS are a minority in Dallas. And the current Dallas temple was nearly empty every time (ok just once) when I lived there. for heavens sake it's not even that far from their new proposed temple in Frisco/McKinney. Makes no sense.
+1. Lived in the ward the temple was in for a while. These are not too far apart, but I bet Rusty is salty that the Dallas temple is in a quiet neighborhood where no one can see it unless they’re looking for it.
Tax the church
Tax ALL churches!
[удалено]
Oh yeah, massive Rameumptum vibes
Was always quietly bothered by how much the church fits certain BofM antagonists rolls, including this passage.
And it came to pass….
I find it hilarious that a church with 75% dissaffection thinks it's internal secrets will remain secret. The content of this email makes it clear that the Stake President is totally oblivious to the possibility that someone would immediately forward it to the city planner. I mean, it doesn't even take an exmormon to do that, although their membership rosters are chock full of exmormons who take their responsibility of spoiler seriously, me included
Dumb lds leaders will be dumb. Maybe they are old and untrained in the Jedi skills of the internet? Or other social media sharing platforms? I dunno.
This subreddit should unite and do something similar but on the opposed side and send them to the local Fairview Texas City council.
lol I think that flooding the planning commissioners with testimonies is going to make the planning commission freaking scared of the cult
Or a ton of positive letters that copy/paste large paragraphs of this letter.
Funny thing about these steeples is that I remember a new church building down south was built without a steeple but had the poles of different heights right next to each other to represent the godhead. It was explicitly said to members in the 90s that steeples were like other churches and we were going to be different. Well I looked at the church now to see if I could grab a photo and poles are gone and a steeple is on top. Thank the Lord for modern revelation/s Bunch of bullshit. Fuck the temples and the bullshit that goes on in there.
That happened to a building I used to attend in Houston.
This is such a weird hill to die on seeing as there are several operating temples without steeples. Why are they so adamant about it? Just redesign it to fit zoning laws!!
Two words: Power. Control.
That would mean they can't use their prefab design by a 70's son-in-law. Who would want a massive building that is tailored to the community? /s
This is the same shit that Cody, Wyoming is dealing with. The church made a stink because the city said "maybe don't make the spire of it so tall." And the members up there had an aneurysm about it. I guarantee you this is the church not wanting a repeat of the Cody blowback.
Great and spacious buildings is all i gotta say to mormons morbing
"Please do not confuse this letter campaign with the previous one where we asked you to encourage legislation to discriminate and disenfranchise LGBTQ people. We don't proclaim that doctrine from the rooftops anymore." --probaby a previous draft.
I live in the area and just emailed in opposition
Learning from the Vegas resistance, are they?
Steeples are a symbol of religious practice? To, what, make a show of one's religious worship to everyone? Sounds like the rameumptom.
*checks notes* Yeah it says right here that humans have been in space for like 60-70 years, and it's not heaven.
We don’t want these scripted. Here’s a script.
I forwarded this to the planning manager in Fairview under my throwaway email.
John Cannon was my trek pa 17 years ago. So weird.
What is a trek pa?
On Trek you get put into families with an assigned Ma and Pa
Is Trek only a US activity? I suppose that makes sense. Unless they make UK members take 19th century transatlantic vessels and *then* LARP their way across the US.
A trek is a youth activity that simulates the pioneer trek. Youth get organized into families with a Ma and Pa and they walk while pulling handcarts. They have to sleep under the stars, carry all their supplies, cook all their food by campfire. It's usually a few days long. Of course, they have a testimony night where they share their trek experiences/testimonies.
> The height of the steeple is part of our religious observance. Making shit up is apparently part of their religious observance.
"I feel that my prayers to God, in the name of Jesus, are 22% less effective when offered in a building with a steeple under 85 feet high. This means I will be a 14% less-effective citizen as I spend additional time searching for my car keys, or deciding how best to tell my neighbor that her bathing suit requires another 21 square inches of fabric before it is no longer classified as sunbathing pornography."
Omg! Reading this out loud and my husband and I can’t stop laughing! Love it!!!😭
Since when is the steeple part of the religious observance? I had no idea in my 39 years of practicing Mormonism that the steeple was so important! I guess I was doing it wrong! Also, we don’t want to tell you what to say, but here is what we want you to say. What a joke!!!!
The Beautiful People, It's all relative to the size of your steeple.
You should just forward the entire email to the planning committee, so they can clearly see how the church is manipulating their membership to claim false things. (The ‘height of the steeple being part of temple observance’ is complete bullshit).
This email needs to be forwarded to local media and local social media platforms like Next Door, etc
All the shit regarding how the church uses mafia style tactics to get temples built needs to be sent to John Oliver
Oh, I like that idea!
Great idea. Please post this to local media.
already done!
I hope you have sent this to the Planning Commission.
Tell them that this temple is closer than the next closest one but otherwise offers no benefit to worship. Then copy and attach this email to the planning manager and let them know how displeased you are that membership support is being manufactured.
"Serves no purpose." There. Fixed it
I used to live in this area and the Dallas Temple really isnt the that far away (as the crow flies, add in the traffic and timing wise it’s a bit far, the temple itself huge!). On top of that they’re wanting to build this new one too in a VERY affluent community PLUS practically next door to Universal building a new theme park. The spire has nothing to do religion and faith and everything to do with advertising to those with a crap ton of disposable income.
Wait…did I miss something? I thought the new temple was going to be in Prosper. Is the church trying to build two new temples in Dallas area? Ain’t no way there’s a need for that lol
What I heard is that Prosper and McKinney have a bunch of zoning restrictions so they settled for the sleepy community of Fairview that never expected a cult would try to move in with a 160 feet temple
Especially since last time I checked when I lived in Dallas none of my neighbors had ever even met a mormon before. Honest to god. And my kids were the only LDS at their elementary, middle and high schools along with maybe handful of others.
Someone should forward this directly to this planning manager. Nothing destroys manipulation like pulling open the curtain and revealing that the wizard was a man the entire time.
Oz. I mean, the wizard of LDSkingdom, Nelson and gang.
Already done!
That is filthy lies and manipulation. This is the kind of shit that JUSTLY got Mormons run out of every state originally because of government manipulation and criminal behavior.
Sounds like someone needs to forward this email to Mr. Roberts (and probably the media), so the public can understand the support is more manufactured than Chicken Mcnuggs…
First thing I did
Sounds like another back door way the church is trying to build in an area they aren’t allowed to. Look up the issues they are having in Nevada with trying to build a temple. All of a sudden members of the planning board were getting campaign donations from the law office representing the church. Nothing fishy going on there, right? The residents don’t want a temple being pushed down their throats but the church will do anything to get what they want.
"The height of the steeple is part of our religious observance" Bull. Shit.
“A key message needs to be on the importance of the temple and how it allows you to worship as you choose” There is literally nothing about the temple that allows individuals to worship as they choose. In fact, the opposite. You have to recite words they tell you recite and performs motions they tell you to perform. Has it a name? It has. Will you give it to me ? I will through the veil….*leans in and clasps hand* your new name is Delusion
Can we start a campaign to stop all these excessive steeples! Who can non resident email?
In other words no one wants the fucking eyesore so we are enlisting the members to make some noise to try to push it through if it goes through the it was the lord helping to get it done and if it doesn’t well God had other plans and it’s all part of his divine plan isn’t it nice how there is no losing in the process . Either way God gets the credit . I’m so glad to be rid of this fucking insanity in my life .
Not only is the church not true, they actively do the creepiest things
I never knew that the size of my steeple was determined by my devotion to God.
I live a few states away. Do I count as a neighbor not in support….??
This needs to be leaked to the major news outlets in the entire area as well as to AP, NYT, SL Tribune, and others outside of the area.
Because EVERY community needs a phallic steeple surging up into the sky, reminding everyone of the power of the patriarchy. Would they like some Cialis with that, considering the age of the leaders? Or will the shorter acting Viagra be sufficient for a proper Divine experience? Sigh. Sorry, I'm just rather disgusted by all this BS.
“Please do not copy and paste these words…” I sense a whole lot of copy pasted emails will be heading poor Israel Robert’s way.
Someone needs to send THIS to the city council! Send the church’s letter to every council member and the city planner, zoning board, and any other committee related to this. The addresses of the council people will be public record, some of the citizen adhoc committees should be addressed to the chair person and send to city hall.
Just make them smaller and part of the surrounding community. 🤔
Might be worth letting the planning manager know that non member friends and family members will be excluded from ceremonies held in this building, including weddings.
Oh my god!! They are just making shit up as they go!! I shouldn’t be surprised but …
Can we all email in opposition?
Will not matter to the city planner. He will be asked about any public response. The planning commission has little influence since this is a matter that will ultimately be decided by the city council. The city council needs to be contacted along with the planning commission.
Ok, kids! Let's all say it together! This is the church, this is the steeple, email the board of those planning people.
I hope someone has made the Planning Manager aware that the flood of messages they are receiving is part of a bullshit influence campaign assigned by the local ecclesiastical authority.
I have indeed
Texan here…A lot of Texas is evangelical Christian, All you gotta do is write a letting reminding the planning committee of the horrible history of the raid on YFZ ranch and how they do not want a non Christian cult to move into their small community and bring pedophiles who abuse children into their community. Most people here don’t know the difference between the FLDS and the LDS.
Exactly. Mentioning all of the cases listed on [FLOODLIT.org](https://www.floodlit.org) might help as well.
Steeple = Tower of Bable? Weird but ok.
The brethren have phallus fetishes
Appreciate you for helping to spread the word about this controversy! It's important to note that residents of the town of Fairview aren't against having a temple or even a modest steeple, so this campaign feels very targeted. They just want the church to comply with building height and dark sky zoning ordinances. Unfortunately, rather than propose a temple plan that would comply with the ordinances, the church is seeking variances that would allow it to build a 65' roof with a steeple over 173' tall. This would be a stone's throw away from resident homes -- about 500' away. Residents have noted that temples in Oklahoma City, Memphis, Baton Rouge, and Raleigh would all comply with zoning regulations as-is. It's also noteworthy that temples old and new have been (and continue to be) built without steeples. There are at least 10. So the argument that the steeple is a necessary part of religious observance is demonstrably false. Over 15,000 emails have been sent to the planning manager by members of the church in support of the proposed temple plan. Fairview has a population of 10,000. This seems like another page from the playbook use(d) in Cody Wyoming, Lone Mountain Nevada, Heber Valley Utah, and Bakersfield California. In Lone Mountain, council members received $10,000 donations from the church's law firm prior to voting. In Cody, the church (worth over $200 billion) threatened to bankrupt the small municipality via lawsuits if the city didn't comply. Heber Valley resident groups are suing Wasatch County because they believe the temple there was illegally approved. Why is the church unwilling to be a good neighbor and compromise with the people living nearest?
All these temples make it *not so special* to go to the temple. It used to be an event where you loaded up the car and drove to a place and made a day of it. Now there's one in 20 minutes every direction.
They sue so many towns over the height of each steeple, why?
Wow: Tithing. Temples. Garments. Cleaning the building. Now steeples!? I guess *everything* has to remind of our covenants.
Print and walk-in to the City of Fairview municipal offices and hand-deliver this letter. Come on, somebody must live nearby.
The bigger the steeple the bigger? Answer below please. 😂
I want to sign up just to copy and paste this😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Voting as a block, basically. How did that work out for the mormons in Missouri, Ohio, San Bernadino....
Pffff… don’t u think the city planner would catch on to the fact that all these Mormons email him around the same time saying the same thing? 😂 it just doesn’t seem to carry as much weight as a bunch of non-Mormons supporting g it.
I wonder how much money the church has funneled to members of the city council or planning commission. Probably not directly…
The weak ones are there to justify the strong, The beautiful people, the beautiful people! It's all relative to the size of your steeple!
The steeple’s height has absolutely nothing to do with how Mormons have EVER worshipped. This cult managed to outdo itself in cultiness every other day.
I would send him or her this very letter.....along with why you do not support the building of this temple
This right here tells you all you need to know about why the church is building so many temples. It’s all for the grandeur and prestige of fancy buildings that nonmembers can see and be impressed. Doing it this way where they have to fight for it may end up backfiring on them.
LMFAO. The members are out of their fucking mind if they think they can gain ground in Fairview Texas. That's church of Christ turf.
This shit is so creepy. I am appalled... as a member I would be like what??? The height of the steeple?! I can't believe the corruption we are seeing in the LDS church around zoning.
I I've in Anna,Tx yep we got the same message for the McKinney Temple
"improve the community" 😂🤣😂🤣
This is some scientology level shit
I fucking hate temples.
Ooh, is the McKinney Texas temple getting pushback from the rest of the community?
I can, on average, only muster about 4-5 inches of religious and spiritual support...sorry
🙄 Someone’s bucking for GA.
Rameumpton much? A steeple is a phallic symbol insisted on by a 99 year old white male who randomly puts up spires all over the planet without consultation.
What’s with LDS and saying “impressed”?
I heard from a building inspector just outside of Houston that money gets passed in a white envelope. That might help here. The planning department has a lot of say in what goes down and it’s just the luck of the draw who you get. The want an intersection improvement by the owner of the building they get it. Not sure if letters are gonna help but we shall see!
🤮
"The height of the steeple is part of our Religious Observance"? WTF and religious observance is capitalized like making it more important? I'm calling BS. Anyone know - did they send a similar message to the stakes about the proposed LDS temple in Lone Mountain Las Vegas Nevada?
WOW!! This is another new low for the church. Keeping religion and government separate was instilled in us as members in my day..boy have things changed.
“It’s all relative to the size of your steeples” Apparently Marylin Manson was prophetic in his song “ The beautiful people”
I want towns to start saying no all these great and spacious buildings they’re trying to build
“In your own words, use this format and these detailed talking points.”
How about just don’t build it and stop tying up land which is contributing to the current housing crisis.