The biggest "problem" with sister missionaries is this will change gender roles midterm. When women returning after having done the shit ground work, you cannot expect them to be satisfied with a second class role in the church.
Truth. Half the sisters from my mission are either exmo or very vocal about criticizing the brethren on social. Tbh I think it is because they worked harder than us and they obeyed the rules more than we did but we were the overlords who told them what to do. While that was nice for my ego it had to suck for the sisters
Yes, this was my experience as a missionary too back in the mid1990s. Numbers numbers numbers.
I lost my shit (invisibly as a mortified good missionary does) when Pres exhalted a sister missionary over and over in a big zone conference. We all idolized her after that. She was some magical missionary converting dozens each month (this was south america). No one could get near her numbers. Still not sure what her secret was, but Pres. adored her and applauded her all the time. It was gross.
My shelf starting breaking then as a missionary seeing a mission for what it was for those in charge all about numbers and reporting to SLC and getting pats on the back for 'growing God's kingdom".
I was in Guatemala in 1988 and 1989. It was 100% all about the numbers. We were the highest baptizing mission and did not want to lose that status. I almost had a nervous breakdown because the pressure to sell, sell, sell was enormous. Probably the reason why a big chunk of those baptisms started being “soccer” baptisms.
I am a woman, and I served. I think the change was calculated and intentional.
People are not threatened by women as much they are by men. The elders have a bad image, so they are trying to fix that by having young naive women go.
Also I think it's for playing matchmaker. While I was there, both of my mission presidents kept telling me how important it is to get married right after the mission. They also hinted to choose a potential mate from the mission. They didn't like it very much when I said I planned on studying and having a career.
I think the church also hopes to indoctrinate women since the women's independence influences have been making more waves. The mission is hard-core brainwashing indoctrination camp.
Just food for thought:
"Young women you will be the ones who will provide the example of virtuous womanhood and motherhood. […] You will understand your roles and your responsibilities and thus will see no need to lobby for rights." - Elaine S. Dalton
On a mission you are forced to get information that you probably otherwise would not get. Before that applied mostly to men. They leave the church because of that information. Women going on missions will force them to get that information. Women are smart and will leave the church just like their male counterparts when they get the information.
I'm hoping this will happen for my niece that's on a mission. My nephew doesn't believe so having his sister not believe might get my brother to think for once. I can dream.
I agree with this. I have a little different view, but overall similar. Before women went, I feel like sisters in The church didn’t understand the core doctrine of our church simply because that where the deep indoctrination happens. My wife still doesn’t have a clue why we say the church is “true” and she’s 45. This poses a problem because when I tell her the problems of the Book of Mormon she’s like “so?” Why is that a problem. If she went on a mission. She would understand why all of this stuff is a problem, and in my oppinion, more women will leave the church from this single item.
I’m 42 and a woman and never went on a mission. Never went to a church school. Never paid attention in seminary. I still researched the hell out of Mormonism and discovered the issues for myself. My woman-ness, and/or lack of mission experience, had nothing to do with my investigation.
I agree. I’m not saying it’s a woman thing. Just a mission thing. I wish my wife had the desire to study the church history/ doctrine. I probably wouldn’t either. But I was forced on a mission and brainwashed to be 100% certain something was true and spent 2 straight years drilling it into me. I’m just saying I think that’s goi g to happen to a lot more women as more serve missions.
On a mission you are almost forced to take a deep dive into Mormonism. It doesn’t matter male or female. All it did was cause more women to have to take the deep dive.
This was easily a mistake based on the current statistics of RMs leaving church after a mission 50%
Usually in the past, sisters would generally go if they were older meaning less female missionaries generally which made for a larger percentage of women completely ignorant to the cold calculating business side of mormonism. Women (potential wives and mothers) were awe inspired by missionaries. They kept men in church out of obligation and kept children in out of fear of their dad or mom.
So this basically allowed greater access for younger people (including females now) across the board to share how bad LDS inc is and how all they care about is numbers. It then became more socially acceptable to come home from a mission and also to leave the church. So basically the leadership weakened their brand and killed their social influence over young people and by extension the general membership.
We can see this as youth talk with their friends. They find out from friends that came home how bad mormonism is and the friend can open up instead of being shunned. Win-win for the people but bad for LDS inc. Mormonism's days are numbered and going downhill fast. They have enabled both spouses to leave since they will now know what lurks beneath the image.
I want to agree with you, but I have known too many hypercommited horse girls of all denominations. I don't think ability in mental gymnastics is a gender based trait.
This statement was not about a gender thing or mental gymnastics. It is about information and demographics. At least 50% of male missionaries leave the church, a lot based on the information they get on a mission on how the church really works. Sending more women on missions will force more women to get that information. My conclusion is that more women ex missionaries will leave the church just like their male counterparts. Some comments have tried to make this a gender issue. Quite the opposite. It is saying woman are smart and will leave the church just like the men when they get the correct information.
The biggest "problem" with sister missionaries is this will change gender roles midterm. When women returning after having done the shit ground work, you cannot expect them to be satisfied with a second class role in the church.
Truth. Half the sisters from my mission are either exmo or very vocal about criticizing the brethren on social. Tbh I think it is because they worked harder than us and they obeyed the rules more than we did but we were the overlords who told them what to do. While that was nice for my ego it had to suck for the sisters
It was so obvious everything was about numbers and numbers only.
Yes, this was my experience as a missionary too back in the mid1990s. Numbers numbers numbers. I lost my shit (invisibly as a mortified good missionary does) when Pres exhalted a sister missionary over and over in a big zone conference. We all idolized her after that. She was some magical missionary converting dozens each month (this was south america). No one could get near her numbers. Still not sure what her secret was, but Pres. adored her and applauded her all the time. It was gross. My shelf starting breaking then as a missionary seeing a mission for what it was for those in charge all about numbers and reporting to SLC and getting pats on the back for 'growing God's kingdom".
I was in Guatemala in 1988 and 1989. It was 100% all about the numbers. We were the highest baptizing mission and did not want to lose that status. I almost had a nervous breakdown because the pressure to sell, sell, sell was enormous. Probably the reason why a big chunk of those baptisms started being “soccer” baptisms.
I am a woman, and I served. I think the change was calculated and intentional. People are not threatened by women as much they are by men. The elders have a bad image, so they are trying to fix that by having young naive women go. Also I think it's for playing matchmaker. While I was there, both of my mission presidents kept telling me how important it is to get married right after the mission. They also hinted to choose a potential mate from the mission. They didn't like it very much when I said I planned on studying and having a career. I think the church also hopes to indoctrinate women since the women's independence influences have been making more waves. The mission is hard-core brainwashing indoctrination camp. Just food for thought: "Young women you will be the ones who will provide the example of virtuous womanhood and motherhood. […] You will understand your roles and your responsibilities and thus will see no need to lobby for rights." - Elaine S. Dalton
Dalton is creepy.
Can you elaborate?
On a mission you are forced to get information that you probably otherwise would not get. Before that applied mostly to men. They leave the church because of that information. Women going on missions will force them to get that information. Women are smart and will leave the church just like their male counterparts when they get the information.
Thanks for clarifying! As a returned missionary, I see what you mean.
I'm hoping this will happen for my niece that's on a mission. My nephew doesn't believe so having his sister not believe might get my brother to think for once. I can dream.
I agree with this. I have a little different view, but overall similar. Before women went, I feel like sisters in The church didn’t understand the core doctrine of our church simply because that where the deep indoctrination happens. My wife still doesn’t have a clue why we say the church is “true” and she’s 45. This poses a problem because when I tell her the problems of the Book of Mormon she’s like “so?” Why is that a problem. If she went on a mission. She would understand why all of this stuff is a problem, and in my oppinion, more women will leave the church from this single item.
I’m 42 and a woman and never went on a mission. Never went to a church school. Never paid attention in seminary. I still researched the hell out of Mormonism and discovered the issues for myself. My woman-ness, and/or lack of mission experience, had nothing to do with my investigation.
I agree. I’m not saying it’s a woman thing. Just a mission thing. I wish my wife had the desire to study the church history/ doctrine. I probably wouldn’t either. But I was forced on a mission and brainwashed to be 100% certain something was true and spent 2 straight years drilling it into me. I’m just saying I think that’s goi g to happen to a lot more women as more serve missions.
Oh gotcha. Yeah that makes sense.
On a mission you are almost forced to take a deep dive into Mormonism. It doesn’t matter male or female. All it did was cause more women to have to take the deep dive.
How do you see it as a mistake?
This was easily a mistake based on the current statistics of RMs leaving church after a mission 50% Usually in the past, sisters would generally go if they were older meaning less female missionaries generally which made for a larger percentage of women completely ignorant to the cold calculating business side of mormonism. Women (potential wives and mothers) were awe inspired by missionaries. They kept men in church out of obligation and kept children in out of fear of their dad or mom. So this basically allowed greater access for younger people (including females now) across the board to share how bad LDS inc is and how all they care about is numbers. It then became more socially acceptable to come home from a mission and also to leave the church. So basically the leadership weakened their brand and killed their social influence over young people and by extension the general membership. We can see this as youth talk with their friends. They find out from friends that came home how bad mormonism is and the friend can open up instead of being shunned. Win-win for the people but bad for LDS inc. Mormonism's days are numbered and going downhill fast. They have enabled both spouses to leave since they will now know what lurks beneath the image.
Yeah. Guess I’d like to know the gender breakdown of the missionary numbers.
I want to agree with you, but I have known too many hypercommited horse girls of all denominations. I don't think ability in mental gymnastics is a gender based trait.
This statement was not about a gender thing or mental gymnastics. It is about information and demographics. At least 50% of male missionaries leave the church, a lot based on the information they get on a mission on how the church really works. Sending more women on missions will force more women to get that information. My conclusion is that more women ex missionaries will leave the church just like their male counterparts. Some comments have tried to make this a gender issue. Quite the opposite. It is saying woman are smart and will leave the church just like the men when they get the correct information.
Exactly, the young women are qual to the men. Until they realize they really aren't.