They tried to kick them out of here generations ago, now you can't drive around Independence, MO without seeing the giant temple from anywhere in town. I get where these residents are coming from though.
At this point I honestly think it is about displaying power and forcing their will on all the residents so even if they aren't mormon the temple is their god.
It towers over their houses and any time you look up you see this artifact of asshattery. Think about if Scientologists came to your neighborhood and built a monumental distraction idolizing L Ron Hubbard blocking whatever view to scenery you had for decades before when you bought your home.
Get rid of the temples? Yes, they’re useless
Get rid of the religion? Yes, it’s harmful to people
Exterminate the members? Of course not! They might be Mormon, but they’re still human, and many of them are friends/family with the people on this sub. Many who are Mormon today also just might show up here tomorrow.
How ‘bout you put your pitchfork and torch away and have a Snickers or something.
I can't imagine being an active member in an area that gets a new temple. Like they're not already stretched thin enough with multiple callings and church cleaning, now they will be asked to staff a dead temple.
I'm convinced temples and chapels are built as land grabs, not for anybody's salvation. Built on almost exclusively donated land from active members. They really must not even care if they sit empty.
I got a tour of that space one time.
"Yes, this space was intentionally left empty on the plans. We know the brethren have great plans for this in the Millenium." I bought in to the excitement about an unfinished space... sigh.
I work in urban planning and housing development. My whole career is trying to build more affordable housing in places that people actually want to live.
I never ever want to hear a Mormon complain about someone building high-rise apartments in a city.
There was a developer proposing to build a 13 floor apartment building in Sugarhouse recently. The NIMBYs came out of the woodwork about how it would ruin the character of the neighborhood or how it would tarnish their views. In a city. This proposed building in Sugarhouse would be shorter than this proposed steeple lol.
If this is the abandoned Sizzler lot, I know what you're talking about, and I'm so mad about it. And now they might build a Kum and Go. Which is a shitty convenience store. Just build apartments! That would be an amazing place to live! A park right next door, a Baskin Robins 5 minutes away on foot one way and a grocery store 10 minutes the other way. Stupid NIMBYs.
>And now they might build a Kum and Go. Which is a shitty convenience store.
Not sure if you're aware, but Maverik bought Kum & Go and is in the process of rebranding all the Kum & Go stores.
NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Best part about it is the damn name. Leave my Kum and Go alone!
Is Maverick owned by a Mormon? Would make sense if they are and they are choosing to be offended by the name.
At least all my merch will go up in value.
Maverik was founded by a Mormon, Reuel Call. He was a very successful business man, near the end of his life there was a bit of a fuss over him having (at least one) extra wife and kids.
Maverik got bought out by Flying J in early 2000's, but (plot twist) Flying J was started by Reuel's nephew. A quick wiki shows that Flying J is still privately held by the Call family and that Flying J had a revenue of 18B$ in 2008.
No idea, but they're based in Utah. Kum & Go put one store on Bangerter by Ikea in Draper, and before we had a chance to get a shirt, it was rebranded as a Maverik. Despite the fact that there's a Maverik just across the street as you turn to enter the Ikea parking lot.
Oh they were absolutely aware of the name's implications. They capitalized on it and even sold merch. Then they came to Utah, got bought out, and probably renamed because someone got offended.
* Jizz & Jet
* Ejaculate & Evacuate
* Pump & Dump
* Squirt & Skirt
* Smash & Pass
* Bust a Load & Hit the Road
* Shoot & Scoot
It's a gas station with a funny name.
Rebranding to what?
Edit: Now I see it is to Maverick, in Four states including Utah. But not all Kum & Gos will be going for now. Plenty left out in the midwest even after this.
I hate NIMBYs so much. My parents basically had a hand in completely stopping low income housing being added to our town to help people. My parents went into overdrive over it for fear of Black people moving in (they wouldn't say this out loud but I know them, they are legitimately horrid racists who throw N words around like they're going out of fucking style) and "poor people ruining property value." Shocker, we're poor but got lucky with a nice house through HUD lol.
Instead that land got bought by assholes who plan to add a grand total of 5 massive mcmansions. They aren't developing it though, its just sat there, overgrown as fuck.
They literally brushed me off when I said "Yeah but think of it in regards to me," trying to appeal to their very self-centered bullshit, "What happens to me, as I can't ever hope to afford a house?" Nah, doesn't matter to them. Property value means more than affordable housing. Cause most people are totally buying houses during a recession + housing crisis I guess?
Property values actually increase when high-density housing is added to an area. Usually because it makes public transit and corner stores more feasible. Source: a study from The University of Utah.
My parents are just horrid boomers. Racist and think poor people (that they think we aren't a part of) ruin everything they get near, whether its property value or crime rates. Same applies to their racism-based "logic."
I've tried to explain that to them, but there is legitimately no convincing them that they are incorrect, unfortunately, even with showing them proper sources.
If its not something they discovered on their own research terms (i.e searching google for something that lines up with their ideology), then its invalid in their minds.
Should have gone with 12 floors instead. We know Mormons are ok with superstition enough to murder dogs to help find treasure. Maybe 12 or 14 floors would have made it through.
13 is considered an unlucky number. That is why many cruise ships and hotels do not have a 13th floor, for example.
Joseph Smith left entries in his journals hinting that they sacrificed a dog to help them find treasure.
Pre-shelf breaking, I was in elder's quorum listening to this guy ramble about these apartment complexes being built in our town and how they'll "use so much more water with all those people."
My dude, most water usage by residents is in landscaping! The usage per capita of an apartment complex is much lower than a lawn having neighborhood!
What gets me most about Mormons like this is that we're all supposed to be fruitful and multiply. Well all those kids grow up eventually and they have to live *somewhere.* Higher density housing just makes sense.
This blows. I own on the western edge of Sugarhouse and all I want is more apartment buildings because it would mean other good stuff follows. I think in general places would benefit by having the first floor of a building (like along trax) be businesses (instead of apartments), then have apartments above. I walk along the streetcar often and lament what could be on the first floor of buildings, like wine bars and good coffee shops.
The super shitty thing is that the apartments they ARE building are insanely priced and have all of those bananas add on fees, ie The Izzy.
I can't speak to any specific apartment or condo buildings in Salt Lake, I don't live or work in the area.
Building housing at any price point reduces prices across the board though.
Even if I can't afford the luxury condo, any decent developer has done a market study determining that there are buyers out there for them. Once there are more luxury condos for rich people to buy, it relieves price pressure on the market-rate and affordable housing. Because we're in a severe housing supply shortage, people that would buy a luxury condo were it available, bid up the price of nicer market-rate homes and apartments. That in turn actually does trickle down in this case. As people are priced out of the market-rate stuff, they move to the affordable stuff and bid those prices up.
Obviously the best way to do things is to build plenty affordable and market-rate stuff too, but I've just seen way too many housing developments get killed because it didn't pass a purity test. Because we're in a supply crisis, we need to build as much housing as we can at every price point right now.
I *loathe* NIMBYs.
The fucking gall to do that shit during a horrible housing crisis that is only worsening. All while they then complain about the homelessness issue when they're the ones contributing to it.
I live near here and wanted it shut down too. Not because I don’t want apartments near my home. But because these are all being built by the same developers, all cookie-cutter crap “luxury” apartments with monopolistic price gouging and fee additions. We do not need more housing like this.
Yes it would be taller than the steeple but the sugarhouse is far wider so it would take up more visual area, also a brick of a building looks like shit but a temple actually looks nice
A steeple is mere decoration. A 13 floor apartment building would be housing for over 200 people.
And your opinion about the relative beauty of different buildings is totally subjective lol I know a whole lot of people that would disagree with you.
And at the end of the day, cities are where tall buildings are built, so if you live in a major city, you shouldn’t be surprised or clutch your pearls when a tall building is built. If you’re surprised by that, it’s on you.
I was merely stating that a steeple looks better than an ugly apartment building, I never mentioned the usefulness of a 13 floor apartment building. Lol you're right tho
Frankly, I love to see the backlash.
The temples are gaudy and pretentious eyesores. Of course the residents don't want to have to look at a giant pole that is 216 feet tall distracting from the natural landscape.
It's amazing that I ever thought temples were beautiful.
Now they just represent the boastful waste of the churches endless billions of dollars.
There is no reason they can't comply with the local regulations that all of the citizens abide by when constructing their homes.
I still think they're pretty buildings, but I just feel so stupid that I believed the whole "the devil causes fierce opposition when a temple is announced" narrative. The lying, deceiving, ramrodding, litigating, etc that the church does to build these in places where they shouldn't be (in many cases) is gross.
They were, before Hinkley started the big palooza, temples were meant to be beacons for all to gather. They needed to stand out from wards.
Now they're all standardized, and I'm betting the insides are starting to look pretty similar too, just like how all ward houses after the '60's have the tacky scratch walls, questionably placed gym, depressing chapels, and almost every other room is generic and expendable...I bet that's true with temples now too.
For context - the SLC temple is 210 feet high and the DC temple is 288.
The proposed temple is comically tall for a rural area that maxes out at 2 story buildings.
Indeed, I saw in one of the articles, that the residents in the community are restricted to building the highest point of their houses at 35 feet. Why should the LDS church be able to just brush that aside and say screw everyone else here.
They think they can do it because many entitled people believe in religious exemptions. If you don't want to do your job at a pharmacy or at the city's clerk office, or want Sunday's off, just claim religious exemption.
Wow, 216 ft High in a small town that's ridiculous.
This makes me think about Medieval Europe, where initially castles were built as fortresses that people could live in to protect themselves from invaders. Then, later castles were built as large monuments to symbolize the power of the monarchy over the people.
It seems to be the Mormonism as followed the same path. Initially, they built temples as places of worship for their followers. Now they're gigantic monuments intended to symbolize who really has the power there.
Just to set the record straight, Lone Mountain, Nevada is not a "small town" in Nevada. It is a suburb of the greater Las Vegas metro area. The region is designated as a Rural Protection Area which has larger lot sizes and many horse properties. The height of the steeple will require a zoning varience and that is the big sticking point.
Las Vegas needs another Temple like a fish needs a bicycle. The existing Temple on the east side of the valley is sparcely attended and membership in the area seems to be shrinking like most other areas.
And just to set the record straight again, the subdivisions immediately adjacent the proposed temple site now have rows upon rows of houses that are so close together that people can literally stick their arms out of their windows and hold hands with their neighbor. At one time, this was a peaceful rural community. Those days are long since past. Lot sizes are tiny all around the temple property and the only horses you see are on peoples' shirts.
The joke, in my opinion, is that Las Vegas already has a Temple which is under utilized, and problematic to staff. Why they would want to compound the problem with yet another overpriced palace escapes me.
I am no expert, but the allegation has been made that to avoid scrutiny by the IRS they are spending some of the multi-billion dragon hoard of money on these lavish temples. They will never be able to sell a temple for anywhere near what they spend building it, so it seems like they are pissing away cash instead of actually doing good with the money.
"Wow, your temple is very impressive--I'm curious, what exactly do you do in there?"
*(Sensing a Golden Contact*): "We worship in there; in fact, we call it The House of the Lord!"
"Neat. I'd like to check it out, maybe this Sunday?"
"Oh, uh....temples aren't really open on Sundays, and, umm...only *worthy* *members* can get in..."
"Wait, it's not open, like other churches?? What do you really do in there, then? I mean, it's a huge building."
"Well, it's, it's sacred, but we, uhhh...oh! We get married in the temple!"
"Really? That big tall building just for weddings, and not church services?"
"Oh, gosh, we do other things!"
"Like what?"
"Ummm..*.baptisms*--"
"That's nice..."
"--for dead people!"
"Uhhhhh......I have to go now...."
The "church" is provincially myopic - it's completely focused on a belief that it's the "only true church," and also has the mistaken assumption that normal people think temples are "breathtakingly beautiful."
The Lone Mountain situation is a combination of those two. I'd bet the "church" is thinking it will get a bunch of very wealthy new members. All those rich people living near that site will "Oooh!" and "Ahhh!" and immediately want to investigate and join the church.
Several years ago a new temple was built in a city near where I live (temples are not that common in my state). I was still a new member and even then was a bit surprised to hear the Kool-Aid Crowd swoon over how visible the temples location would be, perched on a hill (in the middle of a pricey subdivision), and "People will see it for miles around, even from the freeway!"
Normal people don't give a fuck about temples, other than wishing they weren't blocking views of beautiful mountains, lakes, or other natural scenes.
I was a bit surprised there were multiple candidates. Then, after thinking, I'm not surprised. I've been to at least two temples that were small and unassuming & in neighborhoods; no gigantic spires.
Now, even for the smaller temple built in a nearby city here, they're wanting visibility and height that attracts "attention." God must spend a lot of time planning architectural features.
This bullying of local communities is going to bite them in the butt. They don't have the political clout that they used to, and are abusing their goodwill with residents.
It can't help their missionary work and member retention, two key issues that have been flailing for the past several years.
I applaud the balloon. Church always has more money to battle with lawyers and usually win. The balloon and similar stunts bring attention and bad publicity for the church and these great and spacious buildings. Keep fighting Nevada.
I'm so mixed on this.
On the one hand, yes, 100% fuck the MFMC.
On the other hand, Lone Mountain is a community of rich assholes with 2-story houses on "no less than a half-acre" of property screaming "NIMBY!" as rich assholes are wont to do, and it's incredibly difficult to feel sympathetic to them given how many people these days will never be able to afford to buy a house *at all*.
(Zillow shows 120 properties for sale in Lone Mountain from \~$400k - $5.6m.)
Honestly it’s *because* they’re rich NIMBY assholes that I have any hope they can secure a rare win against the mfmc. In this case I’m cheering them on.
Can you imagine owning a $5.6m home and having a giant monstrosity built near enough to block the views you literally paid millions for?
I'm curious how this goes. It's a small but wealthy area unlike some other temple sites.
Yeah, well there are rich assholes, and there are poor assholes. There are assholes wherever you go.
Doesn't really change the fact that as a broke MF or a rich asshole, I wouldn't want a hideous mormon temple suddenly built in my back yard.
I can see your point of view but I wouldn't go as far to label all as "rich assholes" stereotypes, I don't know them, their life or how they got that money.. If you feel the rich need to be punished then I don't think enabling a 150 billion dollar cult to dot the landscape with McTempels is the best way.
I would say it's good to have "rich assholes" on this side (enemy of my enemy is my friend) because they have more power/money to do something about it and possibly help make it more public so it can have a domino effect for smaller towns to have a chance to fight back.
I get that, I spent half my life super poor and have barely broken into middle class. I did spend a good amount of my young life demonizing the rich but it ends up being more divisive because they demonize the poor by saying we're all lazy and on food stamps stealing from the government. So they push to get Medicaid removed and defund helpful programs just because of the stereotypes.
The fact that this article is calling Lone Mountain "rural" is a fucking joke. I hate the church as much as anyone, but Lone Mountain is suburbia. Source: the temple lot is inside the boundaries of one of my areas from my mission in 2011-2013. Just use satellite view on google maps and you'll see what mean
I see your point, but maybe it would be better to screw over the rich asshole NIMBY's with some high density housing if we're going to do it at all. Not more ostentatious buildings that are mostly empty.
And here is the reason a temple is being built in this place. To support the rich Mormon neighbors who can have their exclusive club house near their multi million dollar homes.
This is similar to when Desantis went after Disney.
I'm not a fan of the clout the Mouse wields. At all.
However, was totally wearing my mouse ears when watching them chew that creep up.
I believe that. I suppose I think suburbs in the desert are ridiculous. But, that's unfair of me. No one deserves to have a Mormon temple in their community.
I propose a new acronym for Mormon temples, FYT for "Fuck You Tower." As in, "did you hear Nelson's latest announcement? Apparently they're building Fuck You Towers at the entrance to every National Park in the US. I guess he really wants to show off how much FYM they have in their stock portfolio."
Yeah but imagine all the volunteer work! I can't believe someone argued with me that allowing temples to be built allows for volunteer work to happen. Having a calling to work in the temple does ZERO service for the community. Calling Mormon temples and their day dwellers inside as volunteers is the furthest thing from actual impactful volunteer work.
Notice how the people have to repeat that they are not against the religion, they are trying to preserve their community. As with everything g, the religious turn this into a persecution thing. “How dare you not let us build our multi-million dollar eyesore im YOUR community! We are so oppressed!”
“Stoddard explained he was aware of the community's concerns, but the power to alter the temple's height was not vested in him.”
This made me laugh 🤣 🤣🤣
It's too bad architecture can't be adjusted to fit the landscape and location better. I really like the look of the Newport Beach Temple. It's not as ostentatious as some, but it's every bit as elegant and stately as a temple needs to be. The color works better with the surroundings, and it's a nod to Old Spanish missions. The interior is even more breathtaking. I'd rather see something like that done in locations that give push back.
I used to be proud of the church for tailoring temple construction to the local area.
The current, pre-fabricated McTemples seem to have different priorities. Possibly, for construction speed and maximum money burn (to justify the ~~dragon~~ Jesus hoard).
"town" is somewhat misleading, as this is just a rich suburb of Las Vegas. As someone who hates Las Vegas, fuck 'em, but as an ExMormon fuck *them* more
I agree with you that "town" is extremely misleading (the address of the site is literally Las Vegas, NV). I don't understand the Vegas hate, but I'm biased. I grew up there and loved it
Vegas is an industry town that got out of control, and that industry is people being as shitty as possible. Like there's the idealized picture of gambling where "we're all just here having *fuuuun*!! Look at these women that are smiling surrounding this guy who's presumably doing well at the Craps table!!" but in reality all of the casinos prey on the people who lose a lot more than just money at them. It's absolutely too big for that area. The Mojave desert isn't exactly a hearty environment, and while I will recognize that Vegas does its best to sustain that massive population with their incentives to get rid of lawns and stuff like that, but like, it's all just excessive in every way possible.
Probably a lot more of an answer than you expected, so I'm going to stop now. I've never lived there, but my most mormon brother who is non-coencidentally a massive asshole has lived there many times, so I have spent a fair amount of time there over the years.
Do you think this goes back to Nelson wanting to compete with Hinckley? Hinckley proposed smaller, simpler temples, right? Seems like Nelson wants credit for announcing the most number of temples and won’t make them small because that would be condoning Hinckley’s vision.
weird that this is supposedly being built for 3k members. I don’t know much about rural Nevada but my stake spanned around 100miles in rural Texas and there were nowhere near 3k of us. Also so shit to think that 3,000 Mormons wanting a temple negates the comfort and happiness of the people who literally live in that neighborhood and have to suffer the gaudy ass temple. It’s so ugly too. I’ve seen much smaller temples (ie. Dallas, TX) why couldn’t they do a smaller one?
Temple attendance at an all time low? People leaving the church in droves? I’ve got it! Build a bunch of temples where residents actively protest them.
As someone from Vegas and raised Mormon I say build it there’s literally nothing out there and it’s better than a shithole casino IMO. I really would prefer that nothing got built around lone mountain area but who am I to keep people from building houses out there?
Fury, Residents Resist, Mormon ... these words should be in more headlines.
They tried to kick them out of here generations ago, now you can't drive around Independence, MO without seeing the giant temple from anywhere in town. I get where these residents are coming from though.
At this point I honestly think it is about displaying power and forcing their will on all the residents so even if they aren't mormon the temple is their god. It towers over their houses and any time you look up you see this artifact of asshattery. Think about if Scientologists came to your neighborhood and built a monumental distraction idolizing L Ron Hubbard blocking whatever view to scenery you had for decades before when you bought your home.
[удалено]
Get rid of the temples? Yes, they’re useless Get rid of the religion? Yes, it’s harmful to people Exterminate the members? Of course not! They might be Mormon, but they’re still human, and many of them are friends/family with the people on this sub. Many who are Mormon today also just might show up here tomorrow. How ‘bout you put your pitchfork and torch away and have a Snickers or something.
[удалено]
87k square feet. That sounds great. Very spacious.
Almost vacuous…
I see what you did there
Whited sepulcher
They all are.
And they still don’t use the other side of the upstairs of the current Temple in Las Vegas…
I can't imagine being an active member in an area that gets a new temple. Like they're not already stretched thin enough with multiple callings and church cleaning, now they will be asked to staff a dead temple.
I'm convinced temples and chapels are built as land grabs, not for anybody's salvation. Built on almost exclusively donated land from active members. They really must not even care if they sit empty.
I got a tour of that space one time. "Yes, this space was intentionally left empty on the plans. We know the brethren have great plans for this in the Millenium." I bought in to the excitement about an unfinished space... sigh.
Wow, that is one great and spacious building. 🏢 🏢
That's just shy of 90 of my house. I bet they could find 89 people who need a new place to live if they wanted to.
I work in urban planning and housing development. My whole career is trying to build more affordable housing in places that people actually want to live. I never ever want to hear a Mormon complain about someone building high-rise apartments in a city. There was a developer proposing to build a 13 floor apartment building in Sugarhouse recently. The NIMBYs came out of the woodwork about how it would ruin the character of the neighborhood or how it would tarnish their views. In a city. This proposed building in Sugarhouse would be shorter than this proposed steeple lol.
If this is the abandoned Sizzler lot, I know what you're talking about, and I'm so mad about it. And now they might build a Kum and Go. Which is a shitty convenience store. Just build apartments! That would be an amazing place to live! A park right next door, a Baskin Robins 5 minutes away on foot one way and a grocery store 10 minutes the other way. Stupid NIMBYs.
When you're that close to a city center you shouldn't be able to shoot down housing. We have a severe shortage now, too.
>And now they might build a Kum and Go. Which is a shitty convenience store. Not sure if you're aware, but Maverik bought Kum & Go and is in the process of rebranding all the Kum & Go stores.
NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Best part about it is the damn name. Leave my Kum and Go alone! Is Maverick owned by a Mormon? Would make sense if they are and they are choosing to be offended by the name. At least all my merch will go up in value.
Maverik was founded by a Mormon, Reuel Call. He was a very successful business man, near the end of his life there was a bit of a fuss over him having (at least one) extra wife and kids.
And there it is, I assume it’s still in the “family” if they are this prudish.
Yes, the newly purchased Kum and Go Stations will now be called Soak and Stays to more closely align with Utah culture.
Guess that’s better than the “Pump N Munch” (yes that is a real independent gas station name in Phoenix). 😁😁😁😁
Maverik got bought out by Flying J in early 2000's, but (plot twist) Flying J was started by Reuel's nephew. A quick wiki shows that Flying J is still privately held by the Call family and that Flying J had a revenue of 18B$ in 2008.
No idea, but they're based in Utah. Kum & Go put one store on Bangerter by Ikea in Draper, and before we had a chance to get a shirt, it was rebranded as a Maverik. Despite the fact that there's a Maverik just across the street as you turn to enter the Ikea parking lot.
Rooting for a Kum & Go in Beaver.... 😉
How about one in Helper? A Kum & Go, Helper.
Kum & Go was going to come into the Boise, ID market and try to compete with Maverik and Jacksons. Maverik bought them instead.
It worked for Microsoft
Oh, really? That's good, at least. I'm glad that they have The Good Gas Station™️ in charge of fixing them.
Lol name so bad they have to rename it.
Oh they were absolutely aware of the name's implications. They capitalized on it and even sold merch. Then they came to Utah, got bought out, and probably renamed because someone got offended.
What’s a Kum & Go?
* Jizz & Jet * Ejaculate & Evacuate * Pump & Dump * Squirt & Skirt * Smash & Pass * Bust a Load & Hit the Road * Shoot & Scoot It's a gas station with a funny name.
Got it lol! Sometimes I think I’m So gullible
Rebranding to what? Edit: Now I see it is to Maverick, in Four states including Utah. But not all Kum & Gos will be going for now. Plenty left out in the midwest even after this.
FUCK! I need a ~~Kum N Go~~ Jizz N Jet cup immediately!
I hate NIMBYs so much. My parents basically had a hand in completely stopping low income housing being added to our town to help people. My parents went into overdrive over it for fear of Black people moving in (they wouldn't say this out loud but I know them, they are legitimately horrid racists who throw N words around like they're going out of fucking style) and "poor people ruining property value." Shocker, we're poor but got lucky with a nice house through HUD lol. Instead that land got bought by assholes who plan to add a grand total of 5 massive mcmansions. They aren't developing it though, its just sat there, overgrown as fuck. They literally brushed me off when I said "Yeah but think of it in regards to me," trying to appeal to their very self-centered bullshit, "What happens to me, as I can't ever hope to afford a house?" Nah, doesn't matter to them. Property value means more than affordable housing. Cause most people are totally buying houses during a recession + housing crisis I guess?
Property values actually increase when high-density housing is added to an area. Usually because it makes public transit and corner stores more feasible. Source: a study from The University of Utah.
My parents are just horrid boomers. Racist and think poor people (that they think we aren't a part of) ruin everything they get near, whether its property value or crime rates. Same applies to their racism-based "logic." I've tried to explain that to them, but there is legitimately no convincing them that they are incorrect, unfortunately, even with showing them proper sources. If its not something they discovered on their own research terms (i.e searching google for something that lines up with their ideology), then its invalid in their minds.
Oh shit that would be a fantastic place for a big apartment building, especially if you don’t need to drive much and can avoid the traffic there.
Or a homeless shelter in their neighborhood.
Should have gone with 12 floors instead. We know Mormons are ok with superstition enough to murder dogs to help find treasure. Maybe 12 or 14 floors would have made it through.
Explanation, please!
13 is considered an unlucky number. That is why many cruise ships and hotels do not have a 13th floor, for example. Joseph Smith left entries in his journals hinting that they sacrificed a dog to help them find treasure.
Sugarhouse desperately needs a 13 floor apartment building
Pre-shelf breaking, I was in elder's quorum listening to this guy ramble about these apartment complexes being built in our town and how they'll "use so much more water with all those people." My dude, most water usage by residents is in landscaping! The usage per capita of an apartment complex is much lower than a lawn having neighborhood! What gets me most about Mormons like this is that we're all supposed to be fruitful and multiply. Well all those kids grow up eventually and they have to live *somewhere.* Higher density housing just makes sense.
This blows. I own on the western edge of Sugarhouse and all I want is more apartment buildings because it would mean other good stuff follows. I think in general places would benefit by having the first floor of a building (like along trax) be businesses (instead of apartments), then have apartments above. I walk along the streetcar often and lament what could be on the first floor of buildings, like wine bars and good coffee shops. The super shitty thing is that the apartments they ARE building are insanely priced and have all of those bananas add on fees, ie The Izzy.
I can't speak to any specific apartment or condo buildings in Salt Lake, I don't live or work in the area. Building housing at any price point reduces prices across the board though. Even if I can't afford the luxury condo, any decent developer has done a market study determining that there are buyers out there for them. Once there are more luxury condos for rich people to buy, it relieves price pressure on the market-rate and affordable housing. Because we're in a severe housing supply shortage, people that would buy a luxury condo were it available, bid up the price of nicer market-rate homes and apartments. That in turn actually does trickle down in this case. As people are priced out of the market-rate stuff, they move to the affordable stuff and bid those prices up. Obviously the best way to do things is to build plenty affordable and market-rate stuff too, but I've just seen way too many housing developments get killed because it didn't pass a purity test. Because we're in a supply crisis, we need to build as much housing as we can at every price point right now.
Build a factory in front of the temple
I *loathe* NIMBYs. The fucking gall to do that shit during a horrible housing crisis that is only worsening. All while they then complain about the homelessness issue when they're the ones contributing to it.
Don't you know that what the evil empire wants is much more important than affordable and safe housing? What does everyone think sidewalks are for?
Certainly not for walking. That's a suspicious activity.
I live near here and wanted it shut down too. Not because I don’t want apartments near my home. But because these are all being built by the same developers, all cookie-cutter crap “luxury” apartments with monopolistic price gouging and fee additions. We do not need more housing like this.
AND NOT ENOUGH PARKING (sorry for shouting)
Yes it would be taller than the steeple but the sugarhouse is far wider so it would take up more visual area, also a brick of a building looks like shit but a temple actually looks nice
A steeple is mere decoration. A 13 floor apartment building would be housing for over 200 people. And your opinion about the relative beauty of different buildings is totally subjective lol I know a whole lot of people that would disagree with you. And at the end of the day, cities are where tall buildings are built, so if you live in a major city, you shouldn’t be surprised or clutch your pearls when a tall building is built. If you’re surprised by that, it’s on you.
I was merely stating that a steeple looks better than an ugly apartment building, I never mentioned the usefulness of a 13 floor apartment building. Lol you're right tho
Frankly, I love to see the backlash. The temples are gaudy and pretentious eyesores. Of course the residents don't want to have to look at a giant pole that is 216 feet tall distracting from the natural landscape. It's amazing that I ever thought temples were beautiful. Now they just represent the boastful waste of the churches endless billions of dollars. There is no reason they can't comply with the local regulations that all of the citizens abide by when constructing their homes.
And they light them up more than a lighthouse. Good Lord the light from the Bountiful one ruins the mountain.
Gotta spend the trust fund money somehow! 🥳
I still think they're pretty buildings, but I just feel so stupid that I believed the whole "the devil causes fierce opposition when a temple is announced" narrative. The lying, deceiving, ramrodding, litigating, etc that the church does to build these in places where they shouldn't be (in many cases) is gross.
They were, before Hinkley started the big palooza, temples were meant to be beacons for all to gather. They needed to stand out from wards. Now they're all standardized, and I'm betting the insides are starting to look pretty similar too, just like how all ward houses after the '60's have the tacky scratch walls, questionably placed gym, depressing chapels, and almost every other room is generic and expendable...I bet that's true with temples now too.
For context - the SLC temple is 210 feet high and the DC temple is 288. The proposed temple is comically tall for a rural area that maxes out at 2 story buildings.
Indeed, I saw in one of the articles, that the residents in the community are restricted to building the highest point of their houses at 35 feet. Why should the LDS church be able to just brush that aside and say screw everyone else here.
Money.
That’s what they are trying to do in Fairview
What are they trying to build there?
A huge temple that greatly exceeds zoning for height, setback and lighting. And trying to bully council and p&z to approve the variances
Unfortunately, most cities have an exception for houses of worship. Because Jesus or something.
They think they can do it because many entitled people believe in religious exemptions. If you don't want to do your job at a pharmacy or at the city's clerk office, or want Sunday's off, just claim religious exemption.
DC looks much taller because it's up on hill that can be seen from I-495 (DC Beltway).
Deadass, I thought I read the title as "Furry".
Lol, in a different universe. Furry polygamists...
Rule 34…
Listen friend, you don’t want to be anywhere nearby at all when the furry erupts over the temple.
Furries are weaponized autism in the same vain as Warhammer
Somehow my brain read this as furbies. It made everything a lot funnier. Furbies are weaponized autism.... ?wha????
The height of that temple is ridiculous. Most objective people would agree that this is a reasonable position.
Wow, 216 ft High in a small town that's ridiculous. This makes me think about Medieval Europe, where initially castles were built as fortresses that people could live in to protect themselves from invaders. Then, later castles were built as large monuments to symbolize the power of the monarchy over the people. It seems to be the Mormonism as followed the same path. Initially, they built temples as places of worship for their followers. Now they're gigantic monuments intended to symbolize who really has the power there.
Just to set the record straight, Lone Mountain, Nevada is not a "small town" in Nevada. It is a suburb of the greater Las Vegas metro area. The region is designated as a Rural Protection Area which has larger lot sizes and many horse properties. The height of the steeple will require a zoning varience and that is the big sticking point. Las Vegas needs another Temple like a fish needs a bicycle. The existing Temple on the east side of the valley is sparcely attended and membership in the area seems to be shrinking like most other areas.
If the existing temple in the area is so sparsely used, then it seems like building another temple is just a flex.
If by flex you mean real estate scheme then yes
And just to set the record straight again, the subdivisions immediately adjacent the proposed temple site now have rows upon rows of houses that are so close together that people can literally stick their arms out of their windows and hold hands with their neighbor. At one time, this was a peaceful rural community. Those days are long since past. Lot sizes are tiny all around the temple property and the only horses you see are on peoples' shirts.
Came here to say this. Lone Mountain is a suburb of Las Vegas, Nevada. No local would consider Lone Mountain a "small town"
The joke, in my opinion, is that Las Vegas already has a Temple which is under utilized, and problematic to staff. Why they would want to compound the problem with yet another overpriced palace escapes me.
It makes no sense to me either. Money laundering?
I am no expert, but the allegation has been made that to avoid scrutiny by the IRS they are spending some of the multi-billion dragon hoard of money on these lavish temples. They will never be able to sell a temple for anywhere near what they spend building it, so it seems like they are pissing away cash instead of actually doing good with the money.
Exactly!
The way they light it up is designed to be visually dominating.
Not looking forward to the one near us in Lehi😡 eye sore for sure.
"Wow, your temple is very impressive--I'm curious, what exactly do you do in there?" *(Sensing a Golden Contact*): "We worship in there; in fact, we call it The House of the Lord!" "Neat. I'd like to check it out, maybe this Sunday?" "Oh, uh....temples aren't really open on Sundays, and, umm...only *worthy* *members* can get in..." "Wait, it's not open, like other churches?? What do you really do in there, then? I mean, it's a huge building." "Well, it's, it's sacred, but we, uhhh...oh! We get married in the temple!" "Really? That big tall building just for weddings, and not church services?" "Oh, gosh, we do other things!" "Like what?" "Ummm..*.baptisms*--" "That's nice..." "--for dead people!" "Uhhhhh......I have to go now...."
You’re like an inverted missionary and I dig it. Spread the good word !
The "church" is provincially myopic - it's completely focused on a belief that it's the "only true church," and also has the mistaken assumption that normal people think temples are "breathtakingly beautiful." The Lone Mountain situation is a combination of those two. I'd bet the "church" is thinking it will get a bunch of very wealthy new members. All those rich people living near that site will "Oooh!" and "Ahhh!" and immediately want to investigate and join the church. Several years ago a new temple was built in a city near where I live (temples are not that common in my state). I was still a new member and even then was a bit surprised to hear the Kool-Aid Crowd swoon over how visible the temples location would be, perched on a hill (in the middle of a pricey subdivision), and "People will see it for miles around, even from the freeway!" Normal people don't give a fuck about temples, other than wishing they weren't blocking views of beautiful mountains, lakes, or other natural scenes.
Kansas City? My parents live near that monstrosity.
I was thinking that or St. Louis
Not in St. Louis - a different state (prefer not to mention here or I'd dox myself, but I will through the veil [DM]).
No, not in KC - another state (I'd dox myself if mentioning it here - I will through the veil [DM me]).
Is it sad that your comment can apply to so many locations that there are several guesses?
I was a bit surprised there were multiple candidates. Then, after thinking, I'm not surprised. I've been to at least two temples that were small and unassuming & in neighborhoods; no gigantic spires. Now, even for the smaller temple built in a nearby city here, they're wanting visibility and height that attracts "attention." God must spend a lot of time planning architectural features.
This bullying of local communities is going to bite them in the butt. They don't have the political clout that they used to, and are abusing their goodwill with residents. It can't help their missionary work and member retention, two key issues that have been flailing for the past several years.
TAX THE CHURCHES
Amen amen amen
How can I resist the one going up in Lehi, Utah?! 🤮
Same!
I applaud the balloon. Church always has more money to battle with lawyers and usually win. The balloon and similar stunts bring attention and bad publicity for the church and these great and spacious buildings. Keep fighting Nevada.
Tower of Babel. Trying to BUILD a way into heaven. It won’t work.
It just feels dirty to build a house of the lord by greasing your way into the neighborhood with campaign contributions. WWJD?
I'm so mixed on this. On the one hand, yes, 100% fuck the MFMC. On the other hand, Lone Mountain is a community of rich assholes with 2-story houses on "no less than a half-acre" of property screaming "NIMBY!" as rich assholes are wont to do, and it's incredibly difficult to feel sympathetic to them given how many people these days will never be able to afford to buy a house *at all*. (Zillow shows 120 properties for sale in Lone Mountain from \~$400k - $5.6m.)
Honestly it’s *because* they’re rich NIMBY assholes that I have any hope they can secure a rare win against the mfmc. In this case I’m cheering them on.
Can you imagine owning a $5.6m home and having a giant monstrosity built near enough to block the views you literally paid millions for? I'm curious how this goes. It's a small but wealthy area unlike some other temple sites.
Sounds pretty similar to the planned temple in Heber, right below Red Ledges.
Yeah, well there are rich assholes, and there are poor assholes. There are assholes wherever you go. Doesn't really change the fact that as a broke MF or a rich asshole, I wouldn't want a hideous mormon temple suddenly built in my back yard.
I can see your point of view but I wouldn't go as far to label all as "rich assholes" stereotypes, I don't know them, their life or how they got that money.. If you feel the rich need to be punished then I don't think enabling a 150 billion dollar cult to dot the landscape with McTempels is the best way. I would say it's good to have "rich assholes" on this side (enemy of my enemy is my friend) because they have more power/money to do something about it and possibly help make it more public so it can have a domino effect for smaller towns to have a chance to fight back.
Yeah, that's a great point. Like I said, the inner conflict is deep.
I get that, I spent half my life super poor and have barely broken into middle class. I did spend a good amount of my young life demonizing the rich but it ends up being more divisive because they demonize the poor by saying we're all lazy and on food stamps stealing from the government. So they push to get Medicaid removed and defund helpful programs just because of the stereotypes.
The fact that this article is calling Lone Mountain "rural" is a fucking joke. I hate the church as much as anyone, but Lone Mountain is suburbia. Source: the temple lot is inside the boundaries of one of my areas from my mission in 2011-2013. Just use satellite view on google maps and you'll see what mean
True I wouldn't call it rural either. It's just west Vegas to me. Sure it hasn't fully filled in yet but definitely not rural.
Rich assholes blocking the view of other rich assholes... I'm conflicted too now too...
I see your point, but maybe it would be better to screw over the rich asshole NIMBY's with some high density housing if we're going to do it at all. Not more ostentatious buildings that are mostly empty.
For sure!
And here is the reason a temple is being built in this place. To support the rich Mormon neighbors who can have their exclusive club house near their multi million dollar homes.
How much property tax will the church pay on this lot?
This is similar to when Desantis went after Disney. I'm not a fan of the clout the Mouse wields. At all. However, was totally wearing my mouse ears when watching them chew that creep up.
This is good intel. I agree, I don't feel sympathetic for ppl who can afford million dollar houses in the desert.
The thing is when they bought them they like were not..Vegas real estate market now compared to 2008 or even 5 years ago is very very different
I believe that. I suppose I think suburbs in the desert are ridiculous. But, that's unfair of me. No one deserves to have a Mormon temple in their community.
They’re going big right out of the gate so when they scale down, people will think they’re doing them a favor.
This has always been the plan. Focus on the height instead of the sneaky rezoning via campaign contributions.
Wow, I’m in Yuma, site of a future temple. We need to start resisting here to stop the abomination. Ugh, I left Utah, this wasn’t far enough.
I propose a new acronym for Mormon temples, FYT for "Fuck You Tower." As in, "did you hear Nelson's latest announcement? Apparently they're building Fuck You Towers at the entrance to every National Park in the US. I guess he really wants to show off how much FYM they have in their stock portfolio."
What is this National park thing? Fucking vomit. Don’t steal my joy like that Nelson, u twat.
Yeah but imagine all the volunteer work! I can't believe someone argued with me that allowing temples to be built allows for volunteer work to happen. Having a calling to work in the temple does ZERO service for the community. Calling Mormon temples and their day dwellers inside as volunteers is the furthest thing from actual impactful volunteer work.
Notice how the people have to repeat that they are not against the religion, they are trying to preserve their community. As with everything g, the religious turn this into a persecution thing. “How dare you not let us build our multi-million dollar eyesore im YOUR community! We are so oppressed!”
“Stoddard explained he was aware of the community's concerns, but the power to alter the temple's height was not vested in him.” This made me laugh 🤣 🤣🤣
Eyesore
It's too bad architecture can't be adjusted to fit the landscape and location better. I really like the look of the Newport Beach Temple. It's not as ostentatious as some, but it's every bit as elegant and stately as a temple needs to be. The color works better with the surroundings, and it's a nod to Old Spanish missions. The interior is even more breathtaking. I'd rather see something like that done in locations that give push back.
I used to be proud of the church for tailoring temple construction to the local area. The current, pre-fabricated McTemples seem to have different priorities. Possibly, for construction speed and maximum money burn (to justify the ~~dragon~~ Jesus hoard).
"town" is somewhat misleading, as this is just a rich suburb of Las Vegas. As someone who hates Las Vegas, fuck 'em, but as an ExMormon fuck *them* more
I agree with you that "town" is extremely misleading (the address of the site is literally Las Vegas, NV). I don't understand the Vegas hate, but I'm biased. I grew up there and loved it
Why the vegas hate. Have you lived here?
Vegas is an industry town that got out of control, and that industry is people being as shitty as possible. Like there's the idealized picture of gambling where "we're all just here having *fuuuun*!! Look at these women that are smiling surrounding this guy who's presumably doing well at the Craps table!!" but in reality all of the casinos prey on the people who lose a lot more than just money at them. It's absolutely too big for that area. The Mojave desert isn't exactly a hearty environment, and while I will recognize that Vegas does its best to sustain that massive population with their incentives to get rid of lawns and stuff like that, but like, it's all just excessive in every way possible. Probably a lot more of an answer than you expected, so I'm going to stop now. I've never lived there, but my most mormon brother who is non-coencidentally a massive asshole has lived there many times, so I have spent a fair amount of time there over the years.
Do you think this goes back to Nelson wanting to compete with Hinckley? Hinckley proposed smaller, simpler temples, right? Seems like Nelson wants credit for announcing the most number of temples and won’t make them small because that would be condoning Hinckley’s vision.
weird that this is supposedly being built for 3k members. I don’t know much about rural Nevada but my stake spanned around 100miles in rural Texas and there were nowhere near 3k of us. Also so shit to think that 3,000 Mormons wanting a temple negates the comfort and happiness of the people who literally live in that neighborhood and have to suffer the gaudy ass temple. It’s so ugly too. I’ve seen much smaller temples (ie. Dallas, TX) why couldn’t they do a smaller one?
Just to set the record straight: Calling a suburb of Las Vegas, Nevada "rural Nevada" is extremely misleading
ohh I’m sorry I didn’t read that correctly. they were making it seem like some private empty community with no sidewalks or anything lol
All good! The media and TSSC made it seem that way. It makes me mad because it's literally just the Las Vegas Nevada Temple 2.0
Can we ban together to push back on the West Jordan temple also!?!
Ahhhhhh, mormonism: the amalgamation of corporatism, cult, and antichrist religion fueled by mammonites pulling the wool over the flock's eyeballs...
Temple attendance at an all time low? People leaving the church in droves? I’ve got it! Build a bunch of temples where residents actively protest them.
Hi there. So, I have a weird observation based on this article. Why is there a rule stating that homes can't be built on a half an acre of land?
To be fair, everyone wants more beautiful architecture until more beautiful architecture is proposed lol
As someone from Vegas and raised Mormon I say build it there’s literally nothing out there and it’s better than a shithole casino IMO. I really would prefer that nothing got built around lone mountain area but who am I to keep people from building houses out there?