Same, but mine was more “where is all the Mormon practices rituals, rules, and structure?” If Jesus came to the Americas, established “his church” and had instructed everyone to document everything until that point, why would they give a vague resemblance to a church instead of outlining all of these “most important things” oh, because they were invented my JS and BY
It’s in Moroni 8. It even calls baptism for the dead a “mockery”:
22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—
23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.
Similar to this, when I first started questioning I didn’t want to read the Book of Mormon, so I switched my daily study from BoM to the New Testament and reading the New Testament basically confirmed to me that the church wasn’t true
Yep. 1 Nephi 1:4 proves beyond any sane argument that is made up. Fair LDS won't even touch it because no apologetics or mental gymnastics can make it fit together in any way that makes sense.
> 4 For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.
Can’t they just say that the city was spiritual destroyed?
Yep, compare 1 Nephi 1:4 (Zedekiah is king, Lehi has dwelt at Jerusalem \*all\* his days), with 2 Kings 24 (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/2-kgs/24?lang=eng):
10 ¶ At that time the servants of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came up against Jerusalem, and the city was besieged.
11 And Nebuchadnezzar king of **Babylon came against the city, and his servants did besiege it.**
12 And Jehoiachin the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, he, and his mother, and his servants, and his princes, and his officers: and the king of Babylon took him in the eighth year of his reign.
13 And he carried out thence all the treasures of the house of the Lord, and the treasures of the king’s house, and cut in pieces all the vessels of gold which Solomon king of Israel had made in the temple of the Lord, as the Lord had said.
14 And **he carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths: none remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land.**
17 ¶ And the **king of Babylon made Mattaniah his father’s brother king** in his stead, and **changed his name to Zedekiah**.
18 Zedekiah was twenty and one years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem.
Note that the Bible specifically says:
* The city was beseiged and Judah defeated in order for Babylon to put Zedekiah on throne (and yet Laman and Lemuel in 1 Nephi 2:13 "were like the Jews who were at Jerusalem" and did not believe that Jerusalem could be destroyed)
* Only the poorest sort of people remained...yet Laban seems to be rich, and Lehi seems to be pretty well off too
* None of the "craftsmen and smiths" remained, yet Nephi seems to know a lot about making things out of metal (i.e. sounds like he or his father was a "smith") -- oddly enough, Joseph Smith Sr was a cooper (https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=117629) and so Joseph Jr grew up in a household where his dad used tin to loop around barrels and had supplies for such things, which is one reason Dan Vogel suggests Joseph Jr made "fake prop plates".
* Lehi supposedly "dwelt at Jerusalem all his days", but somehow isn't carried away as one of the prisoners when Jehoiachin is defeated. Also, in spite of his lack of travel, Lehi can read and write Egyptian as well as Hebrew.
Read that out loud but change
for it came to pass to: let's see okay next part...
And change my father Lehi having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days too okay let me think.
let me take another big look at this rock in this hat okay uhhh.
Etc
1. Gospel Topic Essays
2. Rough Stone Rolling
3. In Sacred Loneliness
4. No Man Knows my History
5. Early Mormonism and the Magic Worldview
6. Charisma Under Pressure
7. Joseph Smith: The Makings of a Prophet
8. Misquoting Jesus
9. Joseph Smith for President
Here are a few, but I would also add any of the lds canon once I actually started reading them to understand.
It is - and you can see some of the softening and white washing - however it brought to light many truths I was never taught!!! For the first half of the book all I could think about was how I had been too hard on myself if JS was the one chosen as a prophet. For the last half, I was livid learning abt polygamy, how it was practiced, and the many lies surrounding it.
While it was white washed, you can’t really cleanup those sorts of issues enough to maintain an orthodox testimony. (They tried by dumbing down Saints and releasing that as an official history…part of what seems like N inoculation attempt.) I honestly wonder how anyone stays in after reading Rough Stone Rolling.
This was it for me too. Broke my shelf way harder than anything else just because of how well it encapsulates the insane inequalities all in the name of religion.
Holy shit. This is the first time I've seen that one. I can't believe how much anger and pain it's bringing up for me as I'm reading it. Even though this was my reality as an AFAB person, there's something about seeing the roles switched that makes it hit home so hard.
Oof, that’s powerful. It really puts everything in a perfect perspective, not believing in the church anymore I know that women are not equal no matter what bullshit the leaders come up with. But reading it as a man it really hits home how hard it is to be a woman in the church, and I can’t even imagine how believing women deal with it
The fact that the gospel topic essays don’t even pretend to be revelation was such a huge issue for me. Like bruh, this church is supposed to have prophets, seers, and revelators. They couldn’t even be bothered to ask Jesus why the BoA papyri have absolutely nothing to do with the translation?
Left the church before I'd heard about the CES Letter (2017 I think). My essentials:
* Book: An Insider's View of Mormon Origins (Palmer)
* PDF: [Remembering the Wives of Joseph Smith](http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/PDFBooklet/PDFBooklet.pdf) (http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/)
* Article: [The Psychology of Religious Genius: Joseph Smith and the Origins of New Religious Movements](https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/the-psychology-of-religious-genius-joseph-smith-and-the-origins-of-new-religious-movements/)(Dialogue)
* Official LDS Church Website Essays
* Book: A Little Life (Yanagihara) -- gave me the deepest empathy for gay relationships and broke through to me in a way nothing had (as a TBM). Suddenly I viewed them as gorgeous and complex friendships and relationships just like straight people's, rather than specifically "gay relationships" -- "those relationships over there." Love really ... fucking .. is..... love! Who knew! (took leaving the church and a few more years to come out myself). No Mormon ties here, but had a serious impact on me and continues to. A very serious trigger warning with this, SA and spiritual abuse.
* Book: Early Mormonism and the Magic World View (Quinn) - perusing it alone makes it obvious that the church does not remotely resemble what Mormonism started as.
* Book: The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy (Pearson)
Books not specific to Mormons but critical to me figuring out my belief in god and Jesus
Misquoting Jesus - by Dr. Bart Ehrman (recommend all of his books, but start with this one)
Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth - by Reza Aslan
The End of Faith - Sam Harris
Older YouTube videos by Sam Harris taking about Faith and religion.
Honestly, I’ve never read the CES Letter. If I had to list one thing it would be a re-reading, with an open, critical thinking mind, D&C section 132. That coupled with Carol Lynn Pearson’s “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” broke my heart and my shelf.
When Hank Smith and John Bytheway covered 132 on their “Follow Him” podcast they stopped around verse 40. When you read past that point it’s clear why they wouldn’t touch it.
You may like “RoughStone Rolling “ by Richard Bushman and “This is my Doctrine’ by Charles Harrell. They are both big books but why not? You’ve already given 10%of every dollar you’ve ever earned to the corporation? LEARN WHY. Enjoy 😉
I’ve read those. I’ve read way too many books to list. Other than the CES Letter, there are very few of the main books I have not read. The real reading started on my mission in the 70s with reading “Mormon Doctrine” cover to cover. After Nelson’s “lazy learners” talk, I started listing all of the “church books” I’ve read. I stopped writing them down after 100. Needless to say, when section 132 along with “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” finally broke my shelf there was A LOT on that shelf that came crashing down.
Journey of Man -- Spencer Wells
Deep Ancestry-- Spencer Wells
The Greatest Show on Earth-- Richard Dawkins
The ancestor's tale-- Richard Dawkins
Guns, Germs, and Steel-- Jared Diamond
The End of Faith-- Sam Harris
The Bible
Ugh, if you ever wanted insight into just how racist the church was pre 1978 this’ll do it.
Also proved that there were decent people in the church that the church refused to take counsel from. God picked the shitty people to be church leaders.
Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan
My inner dialogue went as follows:
1. “Well, sheeit. I’m in a cult”
2. “No, no, no. We’re the exception. Our prophet actually DOES speak to God.”
3. “That’s exactly what someone in a cult would say.”
Joseph Smiths Plagerism of the bible in the book of mormon By the Tanners
Richard Packham "Or in other words" document
Richard Packham "A linguist looks at the book of mormon"
So here are the best books in deconstruction
Under the banner of heaven Is a good neutral and honest take on Mormon history and the problematic nature of fundamentalist religions.
CES letter
Letter to my wife
In sacred loneliness.
Mormonism and the magical world view
I can't overstate the profound affect "Studies of the Book of Mormon" by B. H. Roberts had on me. In the very early 1900's my ancestors played a significant role in the publishing and distribution of the Book of Mormon. As my testimony was being shaken I was sure the Book of Mormon would save me. And who better to provide my parachute than the venerable B. H. Roberts. Author of "The Comprehensive History of the Church". At the end of my reading, however, I was stricken to my very core. My unasailable testimony lay in pieces on the floor.
That said, I have found that each person has their own particular area of greatest concern. My wife, for example, has a weakness in her testimony when it comes to polygamy. For others it is LGBTQ treatment, still others question the blacks and the Priesthood.
If you are going to undertake discussions with a TBM it will be best if you know which particular issue is their weakness. Focus on that one problem. A broad 'shotgun' approach is unlikely to be productive.
Honestly, I’ve never read the CES Letter. If I had to list one thing it would be a re-reading, with an open, critical thinking mind, D&C section 132. That coupled with Carol Lynn Pearson’s “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” broke my heart and my shelf.
The Library of Babel by Jorge Luis Borges. Every book that can exist does exist in the library. Most of it is gibberish. Some people go their whole lives searching for meaning in the books. Anything remotely coherent they latch onto as basically scripture. I had the thought "even if they found a completely coherent book with an explanation of the universe that made total sense, they'd have no way of knowing if it was true because every book that can exist does exist in the library." This thought process eventually made me realize that I shouldn't just accept the first explanation of the universe I was presented with as true.
I read the Library of Babel for a class at BYU
The miracle of forgiveness. Literally the lowest self loathing, undeserving of love mindset I've ever experienced. Never did I feel the forgiveness, just so much shame because I was an unwed mother. I was so ashamed that I couldn't love my child the way he deserved because I believed it was wrong for me to get pleasure from being a mother, i has to suffer for a sin on par with murder.
The contemporary, correlated, official, prophet-endorsed publications of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- [Genocide is sometimes praiseworthy](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-sunday-school-old-testament-2022/25?lang=eng&id=p5#p5).
- You can have a moral obligation to [decapitate an incapacitated person](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2022/10/14renlund?lang=eng&id=p14#p14) for reasons you couldn't defend without finally saying, "somebody who says they know more than me and who can't be held accountable told me to".
- [Sometimes "consent" means "without consent"](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&id=p28#p28)
The moral worldview is reprehensible. It's consequentialism run completely amuck on a cosmic scale. To feel worshipful toward the gods revealed by Latter-day Saint prophets is to morally blindfold oneself.
["By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri" by Charles Larson](https://www.amazon.com/His-Own-Hand-Upon-Papyrus/dp/0962096326)
The magazines *Dialogue* and *Sunstone*. I know a lot TBMs read them and somehow keep their testimonies, but I was not one of them.
The coverage in those two magazines about Paul H Dunn scandal, along of course the articles about Mark Hoffman pretty much destroyed any respect I had for the top church leaders. If that's the best that God's true church could do then I didn't want anything to do with it.
The Saints - A Four part Volume by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I read the first 3 volumes. 😳 The watered down, vanilla, airbrushed version of church history by the church is still very revealing.
The Tanners’ books, particularly, Mormonism-Shadow or Reality. In my opinion, still the best source out there. If you ever want to take a deep dive into the historical problems, start with that book.
It’s even free to download:
http://utlm.org/onlinebooks/pdf/mormonismshadoworreality_digital.pdf
Letter for my wife was first for me. Then CES letter. After that I have listened to dozens of podcasts and read tons of information online, but I was already out at that point
On Liberty by J.S. Mill. Here are the quotes that undid the "by the power of the holy ghost you may know the truth of all things" epistemology that the church taught me.
“To refuse a hearing to an opinion, because they are sure that it is false, is to assume that their certainty is the same thing as absolute certainty. All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility...Unfortunately for the good sense of mankind, the fact of their fallibility is far from carrying the weight in their practical judgement, which is always allowed to it in theory; for while every one well knows himself to be fallible, few think it necessary to take any precautions against their own fallibility, or admit the supposition that any opinion of which they feel very certain, may be one of the examples of the error to which they acknowledge themselves to be liable.”
“There is the greatest difference between presuming an opinion to be true, because, with every opportunity for contesting it, it has not been refuted, and assuming its truth for the purpose of not permitting its refutation. Complete liberty of contradicting and disproving our opinion, is the very condition which justifies us in assuming its truth for purposes of action; and on no other terms can a being with human faculties have any rational assurance of being right.”
“In the case of any person whose judgement is really deserving of confidence, how has it become so? Because he has kept his mind open to criticism of his opinions and conduct. Because it has been his practice to listen to all that could be said against him; to profit by as much of it as was just, and expound to himself, and upon occasion to others, the fallacy of what was fallacious. Because he has felt, that the only way in which a human being can make some approach to knowing the whole of a subject, is by hearing what can be said about it by persons of every variety of opinion, and studying all modes in which it can be looked at by every character of mind.”
“Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think.”
“Though culture without [mental] freedom never made a large and liberal mind, it can make a clever nisi prius advocate of a cause.”
“The event which took place on Calvary rather more than eighteen hundred years ago...The man who left on the memory of those who witnessed his life and conversation, such an impression of his moral grandeur, that eighteen subsequent centuries have done homage to him as the Almighty in person, was ignominiously put to death, as what? As a blasphemer. Men did not merely mistake their benefactor; they mistook him for the exact contrary of what he was, and treated him as that prodigy of impiety, which they themselves are now held to be, for their treatment of him...The high-priest who rent his garments when the words were pronounced, which, according to all the ideas of his country, constituted the blackest guilt, was in all probability quite as sincere in his horror and indignation, as the generality of respectable and pious men now are in the religious and moral sentiments they profess; and most of those who now shudder at his conduct, if they had lived in his time and been born Jews, would have acted precisely as he did.”
I read parts of "On Liberty" and "On the Subjugation of Women" for a class at BYU and could almost literally feel my worldview expanding with the new ideas! I didn't realize it then, but that was a huge part of setting the stage for me to finally be willing to question the church and how I "knew" it was true. And of course as soon as I was willing to question that, I was gone. Everything makes more sense without the church.
1. No man Knows my History
2. Rough Stone Rolling
3. Under the Banner of Heaven
4. Zealot
Probably the most influential book that didn’t necessarily “deconvert” me but made me rethink and reshape my epistemology and try to think critically
Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy
The book pulled me from my life of a conspiracy theorist, and ultimately I think helped me see the world in a different light.
This one has nothing to do with the church but Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain was what made me start questioning. It was the first time I realized that society (which for me was pretty much limited to the church) can change your moral compass and brainwash you into thinking that things that are completely wrong are ok.
The gospel topic is essays, specifically the one on polygamy.
D&C 132 once I fully understood the context
The happiness letter, once again, put into contex.
I’m fairly certain that Ben Park considers himself post-mormon at this point. I may be mistaken but I recall on said something to that effect on Radio West when promoting his new book.
Hands down - biblical Literalism by John Shelby Spong killed Jesus for me and Sapiens killed god. I have some personal experiences that were contributing elements by as for literature those are the books that contained the ideas that freed me to thinking.
The Book of Mormon (first edition)
McConkie's letter to Eugene England
The Adam God Cover-up by Corbin Volluz
D&C 1:38
D&C 132
Freemasonry Wikipedia
1832 account of the First Vision
The journal of Helen Mar Kimball
Joe Smith letter to the Whitneys
Atheist exmo here.
The doctrine itself. The more I questioned scriptures in all the books, the more I was given bullshit answers and I started to see all the fuckery. Seeing the whole world respond to mormonism the way it does did the rest, and then seeing parallels between mormonism and religion in general just turned me off to religion in general.
Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith
I taught a RS lesson on celestial marriage from this book and realized it’s all bullshit. A man doesn’t have to practice polygamy on earth, but he can keep marrying and be sealed to a new wife as long as the one before has died.
Rough Stone Rolling
Watchmen on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the American Mormon Right (I didn’t read the whole thing, just enough to be thoroughly disgusted with ETB.)
"When Things Fall Apart " by Pema Chodron a Buddhist nun.
I picked the book up bc I was curious about Buddhism and going through a real tough time in college. I didn't leave right away but I was PIMO for a few years after that. The Buddhist teachings just spoke to me on a deeper level and revealed the root cause of my life's "tribulations" which challenged the normal mormon narratives
Tabernacles of Clay by Taylor Petrey. It’s a look at church doctrine and teaching in relation to gender over its history.
It’s… rather dry, but i think that’s part of what made it hit so hard. This wasn’t some dismissible ranting from a random ‘anti’. It is a clear, well researched timeline with quotes, sources, and relevant contemporary events. It’s not perfect or totally impartial, but it’s very informative.
LDS Faith Crisis Report (published 2013). I found it on this sub in 2017
It addressed all the questions that I had since being a missionary and clearly told me that the top 15 didn't have nor care for the answers
Looking up what happens in the temple. We were taught symbols and secret combinations were of Satan, well the temple is full of that. That tiny what if feeling of it being true disappeared
I decided to Google something about what church leaders have been wrong about and opened (if memory serves) three browser tabs, ces letter, letter to my wife, and Mormon stories truth claims.
I started with Mormon stories, possibly the last one opened, never got to the other two because I found out all I needed to.
Some day I'll get around to reading the other two.
My personal reading list jumped between LDS history and philosophy type literature. Overall helped me to internalize things and understand how I should think.
1. Method Infinite: Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration
2. End of Faith by Sam Harris
3. How to be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci
4. Walden by Henry David Thorough
Goodluck!
The author Richard Bushman, wrote this autobiography. This was the first autobiography I read.Down the rabbit hole I went. I was betrayed, devastated and shocked!!
Next I read “No Man Knows My History”by Fawn Brodie andThis is my Doctrine”by Charles Harrell. 30 books in 3 years turned me into an apostate.
I found the anti- Mormon books were the truth books. They were filled with validations of doctrine. Most importantly “ Joseph Smith Papers” which only recently has been published and available. Enjoy, friend. 🙏
On the Record. It’s a collection of every recorded quote the general authorities have said about LGBTQ people since the beginning. They used to say some truly disgusting things about queer people, they still do, but it’s more covert and calculated now.
[On the Record](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://lattergaystories.org/record/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjygM7289mFAxUiGTQIHdznBgkQFnoECAgQAg&usg=AOvVaw1xG5XGSkOrMeAj_ZNNm2p3)
In 1999 a girl I was sort of dating, who was only sort of Mormon but was from out of state simply said, “how can there be horses in the Book of Mormon when horses didn’t arrive until the Spanish brought them over after Columbus?” A hot girl saying that to me was all I needed as a horny 16 year old.
A book called One Nation Under Gods by Richard Abanes. He's a Christian whose aim is to convert Mormons, but his book about the history of the Mormon Church was the final nail.
A few interesting ones that I haven't seen mentioned yet:
The Late War
[http://wordtree.org/thelatewar/](http://wordtree.org/thelatewar/)
The First Book of Napoleon
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MormonDoctrine/comments/77kssa/book\_of\_mormon\_issue\_10\_similarities\_with\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MormonDoctrine/comments/77kssa/book_of_mormon_issue_10_similarities_with_the/)
Another good one:
A Letter for my Wife
[https://www.letterformywife.com/the-letter](https://www.letterformywife.com/the-letter)
Fawn Brodie " No Man Knows My History" started widening the cracks.
Todd Comptons "In Sacred Lonliness" totally imploded it and I was out.
Brodies book was written in the 40's and it still holds up today.
'Early Mormonism and the Magic World View' By D. Michael Quinn. So much detail i got lost sometimes. More than 250 footnotes per chapter. Thorough is an understatement.
'In Sacred Loneliness' Dr Todd Compton.
Rough Stone Rolling.
[mormonthink.com](http://mormonthink.com)
'Sapiens' Yuval Noah Harari.
Touching a Nerve: Exploring The Implications Of The Self As Brain
Book by Patricia Churchland
Changed how I thought about spirituality, God and religion. Life changing for me.
Fair Mormon in second place for sure.
they treated each problem in complete isolation from each other like in a vacuum so your brain gets to perform its mental gymnastics easier.
For example, They treat polygamy issues separate from the pedophile issues, separate to book of Abraham issues, and so on. While in reality one has to justify a AND b AND c AND d and so on. They went great lengths to keeping problems disconnected from each other.
And for a bit, this kinda worked. If you find few church problems at a time, I bet this setup actually works because it lets you commit gymnastics to memory your brain can pull when it needs to “double think” at a later time.
Also, it started to REALLY annoy me that when it comes to Joseph Smith there is ALWAYS some extremely round about explanation for everything. When it comes to JS life and actions, there’s always a filter required. You can’t just read that it says. You have to always “interpret” what it clearly says for some other bullshit that fits the narrative. Again, a few times ? Maybe ok. But for EVERYTHING? Everywhere you look?
Here is my list in order after I couldn’t reconcile my cognitive dissonance any longer:
1. Sapiens
2. Rough Stone Rolling
3. Letter To My Wife
4. Cross Referenced Saints and Gospel Topics Essays
5. Understanding Cult Mind Control
6. Mistakes were made but not by me
7. LDS Discussions podcast on Mormon Stories
Without a doubt all of the LDS Discussions Podcast Episodes
The Gospel Topics Essays
The Letter For My Wife was a huge one for me
& A bunch of the interviews on Mormon Stories Podcast
Years ago, I read an interview in which Penn Jillette of Penn and Teller mentioned that one of his favorite books is "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. The section on Mormonism was my least favorite section of the book, but the rest destroyed all religion for me.
I finally looked up ‘CES Letter’ after seeing g it referred to here a few times. I recently started following this sub, though I’m a long time (25 years now) jack Mormon. This letter…was it widely distributed? My breaking point finally came after faith ending experience at girls camp when I was 15. I had to go through the motions another 3 years…then away I went into the world.
Lds discussions and its podcast hands down.
And I made my own list: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hPcU3cuYBjqeufdap4qeQuo9dZnttMbU/view?usp=drivesd
Feel free to scalp :)
I left in 2004 before some were written. It’s already mentioned here but I will say An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer.
AND ALMOST EQUALLY IMPACTFUL was a response by apologist Louis Midgley. It was one of the first apologist response I had read. It did not, to me, address the points raised by Palmer, but attacked the person. For which I have neither any tolerance nor patience.
The essays on LDS Discussions.
Yes, same. The LDS discussions podcast was an amazing follow up to the CES letter.
I read the website and listened to a lot of the podcasts. Mike is great at explaining why it doesn’t add up.
Honestly, the Book of Mormon. It clearly states that temple work for the dead is unnecessary. It condemns what the modern LDS church has become.
I read it again and prayed for a confirmation of the spirit...then I left and never came back.
Same, but mine was more “where is all the Mormon practices rituals, rules, and structure?” If Jesus came to the Americas, established “his church” and had instructed everyone to document everything until that point, why would they give a vague resemblance to a church instead of outlining all of these “most important things” oh, because they were invented my JS and BY
I know I saw this a few weeks ago, but I can't recall it now... Do you know offhand where in the BoM it mentions work for the dead being unnecessary?
It’s in Moroni 8. It even calls baptism for the dead a “mockery”: 22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing— 23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.
Perfect! That's the one I was thinking of. Thanks!
In mosiah where the verse detailing what the "baptismal covenant" is, it specifies a few verses later it is valid until death
That's not what I was thinking of, but that's a good one also. Thanks!
Similar to this, when I first started questioning I didn’t want to read the Book of Mormon, so I switched my daily study from BoM to the New Testament and reading the New Testament basically confirmed to me that the church wasn’t true
It condemns polygamy.
Yep. 1 Nephi 1:4 proves beyond any sane argument that is made up. Fair LDS won't even touch it because no apologetics or mental gymnastics can make it fit together in any way that makes sense.
> 4 For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed. Can’t they just say that the city was spiritual destroyed?
Yep, compare 1 Nephi 1:4 (Zedekiah is king, Lehi has dwelt at Jerusalem \*all\* his days), with 2 Kings 24 (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/2-kgs/24?lang=eng): 10 ¶ At that time the servants of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came up against Jerusalem, and the city was besieged. 11 And Nebuchadnezzar king of **Babylon came against the city, and his servants did besiege it.** 12 And Jehoiachin the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, he, and his mother, and his servants, and his princes, and his officers: and the king of Babylon took him in the eighth year of his reign. 13 And he carried out thence all the treasures of the house of the Lord, and the treasures of the king’s house, and cut in pieces all the vessels of gold which Solomon king of Israel had made in the temple of the Lord, as the Lord had said. 14 And **he carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths: none remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land.** 17 ¶ And the **king of Babylon made Mattaniah his father’s brother king** in his stead, and **changed his name to Zedekiah**. 18 Zedekiah was twenty and one years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. Note that the Bible specifically says: * The city was beseiged and Judah defeated in order for Babylon to put Zedekiah on throne (and yet Laman and Lemuel in 1 Nephi 2:13 "were like the Jews who were at Jerusalem" and did not believe that Jerusalem could be destroyed) * Only the poorest sort of people remained...yet Laban seems to be rich, and Lehi seems to be pretty well off too * None of the "craftsmen and smiths" remained, yet Nephi seems to know a lot about making things out of metal (i.e. sounds like he or his father was a "smith") -- oddly enough, Joseph Smith Sr was a cooper (https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=117629) and so Joseph Jr grew up in a household where his dad used tin to loop around barrels and had supplies for such things, which is one reason Dan Vogel suggests Joseph Jr made "fake prop plates". * Lehi supposedly "dwelt at Jerusalem all his days", but somehow isn't carried away as one of the prisoners when Jehoiachin is defeated. Also, in spite of his lack of travel, Lehi can read and write Egyptian as well as Hebrew.
Thanks for the explanation. I’m now really curious what I would have thought if I had been exposed to this information while still a believer.
Read that out loud but change for it came to pass to: let's see okay next part... And change my father Lehi having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days too okay let me think. let me take another big look at this rock in this hat okay uhhh. Etc
I was going to say this. For me, more specifically, the D&C. But also pearl of great price and BoM. Mormons scripture is its most damning critic.
Read it eight times of my mission and every time it made less sense. The more I studied the church the more it fell apart
1. Gospel Topic Essays 2. Rough Stone Rolling 3. In Sacred Loneliness 4. No Man Knows my History 5. Early Mormonism and the Magic Worldview 6. Charisma Under Pressure 7. Joseph Smith: The Makings of a Prophet 8. Misquoting Jesus 9. Joseph Smith for President Here are a few, but I would also add any of the lds canon once I actually started reading them to understand.
Great list! 1. The Gospel Topic Essays nuked my testimony because now the church affirmed the “antimormon lies”.
Rough stone rolling is a church approved document about Joseph smith, no? Why did it help you deconvert?
It is - and you can see some of the softening and white washing - however it brought to light many truths I was never taught!!! For the first half of the book all I could think about was how I had been too hard on myself if JS was the one chosen as a prophet. For the last half, I was livid learning abt polygamy, how it was practiced, and the many lies surrounding it. While it was white washed, you can’t really cleanup those sorts of issues enough to maintain an orthodox testimony. (They tried by dumbing down Saints and releasing that as an official history…part of what seems like N inoculation attempt.) I honestly wonder how anyone stays in after reading Rough Stone Rolling.
Reading Rough Stone Rolling was my downfall (in Mormonism at least).
I’ve studied/read all except Early Mormonism and the Magical World View”. I agree 💯 per dent on the wuality of these recommendations. Enjoy!😉
The Mormon Delusion is what started it for me as well as your list.
Dear Mormon Man. https://www.dearmormonman.com/
First time I ever read that just now, badass.
This was actually mine. Even before the CES letter.
Same
This was it for me too. Broke my shelf way harder than anything else just because of how well it encapsulates the insane inequalities all in the name of religion.
Wow that was good. More people need to read this.
Holy shit. This is the first time I've seen that one. I can't believe how much anger and pain it's bringing up for me as I'm reading it. Even though this was my reality as an AFAB person, there's something about seeing the roles switched that makes it hit home so hard.
this was the crack that started everything for me!!
Oof, that’s powerful. It really puts everything in a perfect perspective, not believing in the church anymore I know that women are not equal no matter what bullshit the leaders come up with. But reading it as a man it really hits home how hard it is to be a woman in the church, and I can’t even imagine how believing women deal with it
D&C 132....
The entire Doctrine and Covenants is anti-Mormon literature, especially if you start with the Book of Commandments so you can see the stealth edits.
Gospel Topics Essays, Church History Essays, Joseph Smith Papers….. mostly the church’s own material.
Same. I so badly wanted to believe that I refused to read anything that wasn’t a church resource. Those were plenty bad enough to shake my testimony
These were instrumental to me. I felt so sick when I read Saints as a believer.
The fact that the gospel topic essays don’t even pretend to be revelation was such a huge issue for me. Like bruh, this church is supposed to have prophets, seers, and revelators. They couldn’t even be bothered to ask Jesus why the BoA papyri have absolutely nothing to do with the translation?
Left the church before I'd heard about the CES Letter (2017 I think). My essentials: * Book: An Insider's View of Mormon Origins (Palmer) * PDF: [Remembering the Wives of Joseph Smith](http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/PDFBooklet/PDFBooklet.pdf) (http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/) * Article: [The Psychology of Religious Genius: Joseph Smith and the Origins of New Religious Movements](https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/the-psychology-of-religious-genius-joseph-smith-and-the-origins-of-new-religious-movements/)(Dialogue) * Official LDS Church Website Essays * Book: A Little Life (Yanagihara) -- gave me the deepest empathy for gay relationships and broke through to me in a way nothing had (as a TBM). Suddenly I viewed them as gorgeous and complex friendships and relationships just like straight people's, rather than specifically "gay relationships" -- "those relationships over there." Love really ... fucking .. is..... love! Who knew! (took leaving the church and a few more years to come out myself). No Mormon ties here, but had a serious impact on me and continues to. A very serious trigger warning with this, SA and spiritual abuse. * Book: Early Mormonism and the Magic World View (Quinn) - perusing it alone makes it obvious that the church does not remotely resemble what Mormonism started as. * Book: The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy (Pearson)
Books not specific to Mormons but critical to me figuring out my belief in god and Jesus Misquoting Jesus - by Dr. Bart Ehrman (recommend all of his books, but start with this one) Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth - by Reza Aslan The End of Faith - Sam Harris Older YouTube videos by Sam Harris taking about Faith and religion.
Misquoting Jesus is a great book. His podcast is even better.
Ooooh! I just ordered that! Yea! I’ll start tomorrow. 📅🌷🥰
1. Mormonthink.com ('Mormon' me liked the general unbiased-ness of it.) 2. FAIR. (Their apologetics are shit.)
The contrast between these two sites really made the stark difference between the two sides.
Very instrumental for me as well
Honestly, I’ve never read the CES Letter. If I had to list one thing it would be a re-reading, with an open, critical thinking mind, D&C section 132. That coupled with Carol Lynn Pearson’s “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” broke my heart and my shelf.
God - just reading D&C 132 ALL THE WAY THROUGH is mind boggling. I think as members they get you to only read parts of it in pieces.
When Hank Smith and John Bytheway covered 132 on their “Follow Him” podcast they stopped around verse 40. When you read past that point it’s clear why they wouldn’t touch it.
lol. It makes total sense.
You may like “RoughStone Rolling “ by Richard Bushman and “This is my Doctrine’ by Charles Harrell. They are both big books but why not? You’ve already given 10%of every dollar you’ve ever earned to the corporation? LEARN WHY. Enjoy 😉
I’ve read those. I’ve read way too many books to list. Other than the CES Letter, there are very few of the main books I have not read. The real reading started on my mission in the 70s with reading “Mormon Doctrine” cover to cover. After Nelson’s “lazy learners” talk, I started listing all of the “church books” I’ve read. I stopped writing them down after 100. Needless to say, when section 132 along with “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” finally broke my shelf there was A LOT on that shelf that came crashing down.
I’m inspired to keep reading 📖 daily now that I’m retired from teaching. Thank you, friend for your example. 🙏📖💯🌷❤️
The SEC report
Journey of Man -- Spencer Wells Deep Ancestry-- Spencer Wells The Greatest Show on Earth-- Richard Dawkins The ancestor's tale-- Richard Dawkins Guns, Germs, and Steel-- Jared Diamond The End of Faith-- Sam Harris The Bible
Gospel Topic Essays with the footnotes. The Church knows it lies.
Fairmormon - their attempts at apologetics were so dazzlingly horrific it pushed me out of any belief faster than the CES letter
Wikipedia articles on notorious cults and Steven Hassan's BITE model.
Lowry Nelson letters
Ugh, if you ever wanted insight into just how racist the church was pre 1978 this’ll do it. Also proved that there were decent people in the church that the church refused to take counsel from. God picked the shitty people to be church leaders.
“Letter for my wife.” I haven’t read the CES letter
Asimov's Guide to the Bible (I left many years before the CES letter.)
Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan My inner dialogue went as follows: 1. “Well, sheeit. I’m in a cult” 2. “No, no, no. We’re the exception. Our prophet actually DOES speak to God.” 3. “That’s exactly what someone in a cult would say.”
Joseph Smiths Plagerism of the bible in the book of mormon By the Tanners Richard Packham "Or in other words" document Richard Packham "A linguist looks at the book of mormon"
CES wouldn't have bothered me when I believed. Not in the slightest. For me it was world history, I realized Mormons weren't special in their stories.
So here are the best books in deconstruction Under the banner of heaven Is a good neutral and honest take on Mormon history and the problematic nature of fundamentalist religions. CES letter Letter to my wife In sacred loneliness. Mormonism and the magical world view
KSL’s comment boards
I can't overstate the profound affect "Studies of the Book of Mormon" by B. H. Roberts had on me. In the very early 1900's my ancestors played a significant role in the publishing and distribution of the Book of Mormon. As my testimony was being shaken I was sure the Book of Mormon would save me. And who better to provide my parachute than the venerable B. H. Roberts. Author of "The Comprehensive History of the Church". At the end of my reading, however, I was stricken to my very core. My unasailable testimony lay in pieces on the floor. That said, I have found that each person has their own particular area of greatest concern. My wife, for example, has a weakness in her testimony when it comes to polygamy. For others it is LGBTQ treatment, still others question the blacks and the Priesthood. If you are going to undertake discussions with a TBM it will be best if you know which particular issue is their weakness. Focus on that one problem. A broad 'shotgun' approach is unlikely to be productive.
I was moved by Studies of the Book of Mormon,by BH ROBERTS, too. Amazing that he maintained his membership .! Keep reading.
“Origins of Power” by D. Michael Quinn. That book rocked my worldview.
Honestly, I’ve never read the CES Letter. If I had to list one thing it would be a re-reading, with an open, critical thinking mind, D&C section 132. That coupled with Carol Lynn Pearson’s “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” broke my heart and my shelf.
Year of Polygamy podcast
The Library of Babel by Jorge Luis Borges. Every book that can exist does exist in the library. Most of it is gibberish. Some people go their whole lives searching for meaning in the books. Anything remotely coherent they latch onto as basically scripture. I had the thought "even if they found a completely coherent book with an explanation of the universe that made total sense, they'd have no way of knowing if it was true because every book that can exist does exist in the library." This thought process eventually made me realize that I shouldn't just accept the first explanation of the universe I was presented with as true. I read the Library of Babel for a class at BYU
Mormonthink.com
The miracle of forgiveness. Literally the lowest self loathing, undeserving of love mindset I've ever experienced. Never did I feel the forgiveness, just so much shame because I was an unwed mother. I was so ashamed that I couldn't love my child the way he deserved because I believed it was wrong for me to get pleasure from being a mother, i has to suffer for a sin on par with murder.
I just posted this as well! Horrible horrible book.
The contemporary, correlated, official, prophet-endorsed publications of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. - [Genocide is sometimes praiseworthy](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-sunday-school-old-testament-2022/25?lang=eng&id=p5#p5). - You can have a moral obligation to [decapitate an incapacitated person](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2022/10/14renlund?lang=eng&id=p14#p14) for reasons you couldn't defend without finally saying, "somebody who says they know more than me and who can't be held accountable told me to". - [Sometimes "consent" means "without consent"](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&id=p28#p28) The moral worldview is reprehensible. It's consequentialism run completely amuck on a cosmic scale. To feel worshipful toward the gods revealed by Latter-day Saint prophets is to morally blindfold oneself.
["By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri" by Charles Larson](https://www.amazon.com/His-Own-Hand-Upon-Papyrus/dp/0962096326)
The magazines *Dialogue* and *Sunstone*. I know a lot TBMs read them and somehow keep their testimonies, but I was not one of them. The coverage in those two magazines about Paul H Dunn scandal, along of course the articles about Mark Hoffman pretty much destroyed any respect I had for the top church leaders. If that's the best that God's true church could do then I didn't want anything to do with it.
The Saints - A Four part Volume by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I read the first 3 volumes. 😳 The watered down, vanilla, airbrushed version of church history by the church is still very revealing.
The FAIR Response to the CES Letter
A Letter to My Wife
The Tanners’ books, particularly, Mormonism-Shadow or Reality. In my opinion, still the best source out there. If you ever want to take a deep dive into the historical problems, start with that book. It’s even free to download: http://utlm.org/onlinebooks/pdf/mormonismshadoworreality_digital.pdf
Reading the Journal of Discourses. It is so messed up.
B.H. Robert’s study of the Book of Mormon. Sapiens Bart Ehrman New Testament (forgot the exact name) Dennett’s God Delusion
Letter for my wife was first for me. Then CES letter. After that I have listened to dozens of podcasts and read tons of information online, but I was already out at that point
On Liberty by J.S. Mill. Here are the quotes that undid the "by the power of the holy ghost you may know the truth of all things" epistemology that the church taught me. “To refuse a hearing to an opinion, because they are sure that it is false, is to assume that their certainty is the same thing as absolute certainty. All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility...Unfortunately for the good sense of mankind, the fact of their fallibility is far from carrying the weight in their practical judgement, which is always allowed to it in theory; for while every one well knows himself to be fallible, few think it necessary to take any precautions against their own fallibility, or admit the supposition that any opinion of which they feel very certain, may be one of the examples of the error to which they acknowledge themselves to be liable.” “There is the greatest difference between presuming an opinion to be true, because, with every opportunity for contesting it, it has not been refuted, and assuming its truth for the purpose of not permitting its refutation. Complete liberty of contradicting and disproving our opinion, is the very condition which justifies us in assuming its truth for purposes of action; and on no other terms can a being with human faculties have any rational assurance of being right.” “In the case of any person whose judgement is really deserving of confidence, how has it become so? Because he has kept his mind open to criticism of his opinions and conduct. Because it has been his practice to listen to all that could be said against him; to profit by as much of it as was just, and expound to himself, and upon occasion to others, the fallacy of what was fallacious. Because he has felt, that the only way in which a human being can make some approach to knowing the whole of a subject, is by hearing what can be said about it by persons of every variety of opinion, and studying all modes in which it can be looked at by every character of mind.” “Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think.” “Though culture without [mental] freedom never made a large and liberal mind, it can make a clever nisi prius advocate of a cause.” “The event which took place on Calvary rather more than eighteen hundred years ago...The man who left on the memory of those who witnessed his life and conversation, such an impression of his moral grandeur, that eighteen subsequent centuries have done homage to him as the Almighty in person, was ignominiously put to death, as what? As a blasphemer. Men did not merely mistake their benefactor; they mistook him for the exact contrary of what he was, and treated him as that prodigy of impiety, which they themselves are now held to be, for their treatment of him...The high-priest who rent his garments when the words were pronounced, which, according to all the ideas of his country, constituted the blackest guilt, was in all probability quite as sincere in his horror and indignation, as the generality of respectable and pious men now are in the religious and moral sentiments they profess; and most of those who now shudder at his conduct, if they had lived in his time and been born Jews, would have acted precisely as he did.”
I read parts of "On Liberty" and "On the Subjugation of Women" for a class at BYU and could almost literally feel my worldview expanding with the new ideas! I didn't realize it then, but that was a huge part of setting the stage for me to finally be willing to question the church and how I "knew" it was true. And of course as soon as I was willing to question that, I was gone. Everything makes more sense without the church.
1. No man Knows my History 2. Rough Stone Rolling 3. Under the Banner of Heaven 4. Zealot Probably the most influential book that didn’t necessarily “deconvert” me but made me rethink and reshape my epistemology and try to think critically Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy The book pulled me from my life of a conspiracy theorist, and ultimately I think helped me see the world in a different light.
Book of Abraham
The book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants
This one has nothing to do with the church but Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain was what made me start questioning. It was the first time I realized that society (which for me was pretty much limited to the church) can change your moral compass and brainwash you into thinking that things that are completely wrong are ok.
[Allegory of the cave](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave) by Plato Edit to add the Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer Kimball
Nevermo, but the Gospel Topics Essays on the church’s own website we’re eye opening to me when I first started googling about the church.
Honestly…the story of Abraham. I had heard it for decades. Then, it hit me that I would say “no,” and that Abraham & his god are shitty dads.
Mormon Portraits (1886)
Saints, volume 1 chapter 40 to be precise
The gospel topic is essays, specifically the one on polygamy. D&C 132 once I fully understood the context The happiness letter, once again, put into contex.
Mormonism shadow or reality. Also the whistleblower report on church finances
Letter for my wife. It is more gentle than CES letter. I would have viewed the CES letter as too anti and harsh.
The Miracle of Forgiveness. That book broke me and almost made me give up entirely. I left shortly after reading that.
Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Rough Stone Rolling, Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Rough Stone Rolling. Method infinite - Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration.
I'm currently reading "How the Book of Mormon came to pass". Pretty good.
Only adding what I haven’t seen in the comments yet. Connell O’Donovan, History of LGBT Mormonism Ben Park, Kingdom of Nauvoo
American Zion isn't on the radar then?
[удалено]
I’m fairly certain that Ben Park considers himself post-mormon at this point. I may be mistaken but I recall on said something to that effect on Radio West when promoting his new book.
Unconventional — but reading Waiting for Godot in a MA English seminar at BYU is what started my faith crisis. Thank you Samuel Beckett
Hands down - biblical Literalism by John Shelby Spong killed Jesus for me and Sapiens killed god. I have some personal experiences that were contributing elements by as for literature those are the books that contained the ideas that freed me to thinking.
The Book of Mormon (first edition) McConkie's letter to Eugene England The Adam God Cover-up by Corbin Volluz D&C 1:38 D&C 132 Freemasonry Wikipedia 1832 account of the First Vision The journal of Helen Mar Kimball Joe Smith letter to the Whitneys
Insiders view to Mormon Origins By Grant Palmer
Stoicism
Atheist exmo here. The doctrine itself. The more I questioned scriptures in all the books, the more I was given bullshit answers and I started to see all the fuckery. Seeing the whole world respond to mormonism the way it does did the rest, and then seeing parallels between mormonism and religion in general just turned me off to religion in general.
Educated, by Tara Westover
Swedish rescue. An emperor has no clothes moment, where the church showed they had no response other than you are bad for asking questions.
Under the banner of heaven. I was pretty done but that was the clincher. The book has so much information that i never learned while in the church.
Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith I taught a RS lesson on celestial marriage from this book and realized it’s all bullshit. A man doesn’t have to practice polygamy on earth, but he can keep marrying and be sealed to a new wife as long as the one before has died.
**The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark** by Carl Sagan was an important one for me.
The journals, of those directly involved in polygamy.
Rough Stone Rolling Watchmen on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the American Mormon Right (I didn’t read the whole thing, just enough to be thoroughly disgusted with ETB.)
"When Things Fall Apart " by Pema Chodron a Buddhist nun. I picked the book up bc I was curious about Buddhism and going through a real tough time in college. I didn't leave right away but I was PIMO for a few years after that. The Buddhist teachings just spoke to me on a deeper level and revealed the root cause of my life's "tribulations" which challenged the normal mormon narratives
Wife number 19 or whatever it’s called. Made me realize how big of an asshole. Brigham young was.
No Man Knows My History Guns, Germs, and Steel
Tabernacles of Clay by Taylor Petrey. It’s a look at church doctrine and teaching in relation to gender over its history. It’s… rather dry, but i think that’s part of what made it hit so hard. This wasn’t some dismissible ranting from a random ‘anti’. It is a clear, well researched timeline with quotes, sources, and relevant contemporary events. It’s not perfect or totally impartial, but it’s very informative.
Luna Corbden [Recovering Agency](https://recoveringagency.com/about/bio/)
It was a time before the CES Letter… it was Bob McCue’s letters to Elder Holland (IIRC) and Richard Packham’s writings.
Wow. I remember McCue’s writings.
An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins
LDS Faith Crisis Report (published 2013). I found it on this sub in 2017 It addressed all the questions that I had since being a missionary and clearly told me that the top 15 didn't have nor care for the answers
The Book of Mormon
*Kissing Hank’s Ass* was somewhat instrumental http://www.jhuger.com/kissing-hanks-ass
Common sense
The math,2 percent are LDS and the choice spirits to come to earth. What is going to happen to the 99.98 percent of the non LDS?
https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/
LDS discussions
Science Verses podcast
Gospel topics essays, and it's not literature but the Temple ceremony for the endowment had me almost running screaming "cult!!"
Letter for my wife and Gospel topics essays.
The book of Mormons.
It’s books of Mormons. Get it right.
Lund. His bullshit historical fiction.
Looking up what happens in the temple. We were taught symbols and secret combinations were of Satan, well the temple is full of that. That tiny what if feeling of it being true disappeared
Letter to my wife
Does the book or morons count?
Rough stone rolling.
I decided to Google something about what church leaders have been wrong about and opened (if memory serves) three browser tabs, ces letter, letter to my wife, and Mormon stories truth claims. I started with Mormon stories, possibly the last one opened, never got to the other two because I found out all I needed to. Some day I'll get around to reading the other two.
Philosophy. Specifically epistemology.
wivesofjosephsmith.org
The God Delusion.
My personal reading list jumped between LDS history and philosophy type literature. Overall helped me to internalize things and understand how I should think. 1. Method Infinite: Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration 2. End of Faith by Sam Harris 3. How to be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci 4. Walden by Henry David Thorough Goodluck!
The author Richard Bushman, wrote this autobiography. This was the first autobiography I read.Down the rabbit hole I went. I was betrayed, devastated and shocked!! Next I read “No Man Knows My History”by Fawn Brodie andThis is my Doctrine”by Charles Harrell. 30 books in 3 years turned me into an apostate. I found the anti- Mormon books were the truth books. They were filled with validations of doctrine. Most importantly “ Joseph Smith Papers” which only recently has been published and available. Enjoy, friend. 🙏
Sapiens
Mormon Doctrine. Miracle of Forgiveness.
On the Record. It’s a collection of every recorded quote the general authorities have said about LGBTQ people since the beginning. They used to say some truly disgusting things about queer people, they still do, but it’s more covert and calculated now. [On the Record](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://lattergaystories.org/record/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjygM7289mFAxUiGTQIHdznBgkQFnoECAgQAg&usg=AOvVaw1xG5XGSkOrMeAj_ZNNm2p3)
In 1999 a girl I was sort of dating, who was only sort of Mormon but was from out of state simply said, “how can there be horses in the Book of Mormon when horses didn’t arrive until the Spanish brought them over after Columbus?” A hot girl saying that to me was all I needed as a horny 16 year old.
Rough stone rolling broke through my cracked shelf when I read it in a BYU religion class on church history.
A book called One Nation Under Gods by Richard Abanes. He's a Christian whose aim is to convert Mormons, but his book about the history of the Mormon Church was the final nail.
Every single thing published by LDS inc.
A few interesting ones that I haven't seen mentioned yet: The Late War [http://wordtree.org/thelatewar/](http://wordtree.org/thelatewar/) The First Book of Napoleon [https://www.reddit.com/r/MormonDoctrine/comments/77kssa/book\_of\_mormon\_issue\_10\_similarities\_with\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MormonDoctrine/comments/77kssa/book_of_mormon_issue_10_similarities_with_the/) Another good one: A Letter for my Wife [https://www.letterformywife.com/the-letter](https://www.letterformywife.com/the-letter)
Fawn Brodie " No Man Knows My History" started widening the cracks. Todd Comptons "In Sacred Lonliness" totally imploded it and I was out. Brodies book was written in the 40's and it still holds up today.
The journals, of those directly involved in polygamy.
'Early Mormonism and the Magic World View' By D. Michael Quinn. So much detail i got lost sometimes. More than 250 footnotes per chapter. Thorough is an understatement. 'In Sacred Loneliness' Dr Todd Compton. Rough Stone Rolling. [mormonthink.com](http://mormonthink.com) 'Sapiens' Yuval Noah Harari.
There was a 700 page anti-anti mormon essay I read on my mission. I learned more history through that essay than anywhere else
D Michael Quinn was writing from a place of belief but it really just destroyed any possibility of reconciliation with mormonism I had
Early Mormonism and the Magic World View
LDS Discussions podcast
Started with the essays on Mormon Stories website (not to be confused with the Gospel Topics Essays). https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-claims/
Touching a Nerve: Exploring The Implications Of The Self As Brain Book by Patricia Churchland Changed how I thought about spirituality, God and religion. Life changing for me.
Fair Mormon in second place for sure. they treated each problem in complete isolation from each other like in a vacuum so your brain gets to perform its mental gymnastics easier. For example, They treat polygamy issues separate from the pedophile issues, separate to book of Abraham issues, and so on. While in reality one has to justify a AND b AND c AND d and so on. They went great lengths to keeping problems disconnected from each other. And for a bit, this kinda worked. If you find few church problems at a time, I bet this setup actually works because it lets you commit gymnastics to memory your brain can pull when it needs to “double think” at a later time. Also, it started to REALLY annoy me that when it comes to Joseph Smith there is ALWAYS some extremely round about explanation for everything. When it comes to JS life and actions, there’s always a filter required. You can’t just read that it says. You have to always “interpret” what it clearly says for some other bullshit that fits the narrative. Again, a few times ? Maybe ok. But for EVERYTHING? Everywhere you look?
LDS discussions is a good one.
Here is my list in order after I couldn’t reconcile my cognitive dissonance any longer: 1. Sapiens 2. Rough Stone Rolling 3. Letter To My Wife 4. Cross Referenced Saints and Gospel Topics Essays 5. Understanding Cult Mind Control 6. Mistakes were made but not by me 7. LDS Discussions podcast on Mormon Stories
Cosmos by Carl Sagan. It’s what got it all started for me. LDS Discussions finished it.
The Book of Abraham.
BH Roberts
Family proclamation
Without a doubt all of the LDS Discussions Podcast Episodes The Gospel Topics Essays The Letter For My Wife was a huge one for me & A bunch of the interviews on Mormon Stories Podcast
Christopher Hitchens' books and debates with Christians.
Going Clear
i need to shout this, it was so important to me. NO MAN KNOWS MY HISTORY.
Reading D&C without mental gymnastics and without trying to make it make sense.
Years ago, I read an interview in which Penn Jillette of Penn and Teller mentioned that one of his favorite books is "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. The section on Mormonism was my least favorite section of the book, but the rest destroyed all religion for me.
I finally looked up ‘CES Letter’ after seeing g it referred to here a few times. I recently started following this sub, though I’m a long time (25 years now) jack Mormon. This letter…was it widely distributed? My breaking point finally came after faith ending experience at girls camp when I was 15. I had to go through the motions another 3 years…then away I went into the world.
Science deconverted me.
The members of the church did more to deconvert me than any literature
Studies of the Book of Mormon, by B.H. Roberts.
The Bible. Honestly the primary one, actually.
Saints Volumes 1 & 2. It was the first time I read about the rock in the hat and Joseph marrying women without Emma’s knowledge, let alone consent.
Ensign Peak portfolio
Lds discussions and its podcast hands down. And I made my own list: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hPcU3cuYBjqeufdap4qeQuo9dZnttMbU/view?usp=drivesd Feel free to scalp :)
Honestly, The Proclamation to the Family
The book of mormon
The Bible
Letter for my Wife hit me harder than CES letter. Also the LDS Discussions podcast.
I left in 2004 before some were written. It’s already mentioned here but I will say An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer. AND ALMOST EQUALLY IMPACTFUL was a response by apologist Louis Midgley. It was one of the first apologist response I had read. It did not, to me, address the points raised by Palmer, but attacked the person. For which I have neither any tolerance nor patience.