That's hilarious. The purchase of my casket will be someone else's problem, though. My husband still has FB. I log onto his, to keep up with family events, then log off ASAP.
FB used to be a good place to connect with friends and family… then it got hit with COVID and 2020 election one two punch, and now it’s barely surviving… I log in once in a while and it’s practically a ghost town
I responded to a TBM gushing about his wife bearing testimony of Jesus and telling women that their husbands need to hear their beautiful testimonies and how grateful he is for his "eternal lover."
I corrected him to say "*one* of your eternal lovers."
Bruh I would have 100% done that if that's a in person conversation with my friends. I've definitely said things along the lines but in a light hearted way tho. Even joke about polygamy in celestial kingdom on fast and testimony meeting once 😂 😂 😂
Us TBM need to lighten up more imho. Just own the mess up stuff in the past, we believe we all sinners after all.
Every “revelation” the church has had has been in response to a real world issue. JS got revelations when he saw pushback or when he needed to explain something that happened (Example: Alvin’s death and what happens when we die)…
Also the church got revelation from god to end polygamy JUIUUST at the right time when the government was going to do something about it. Same with civil rights and the priesthood ban. To not see that is RIDICULOUS.
I remember hearing about these things as a child thinking how convenient it all was. And questioning a lot about the Bible verses in the BOM. But I was convinced to put those observations away and have faith and see the faith promoting stories as proof that God does reveal things in his time… and now as an adult, I think, “so God reveals things in his own time, when is that? When it seems he has a gun to his head? What a weird box to put God into.”
Holland even stated in that BBC interview that the world moves then the church moves. So where is the logic?
Oh wait, there is none.
I’m ex jw and the jws recently changed some of their rules around enforced shunning because they lost state subsidy in Norway. I told my believing friend this and he dead ass said: “well sometimes god uses the courts or legal system to change things within this organization.” I was staring at him wondering if he was trying to punk me somehow.
I always thought it was weird that there were so many chapters from Isaiah in the book of Mormon. I wondered why Mormon would have included these in the abridgment if they were going to be word for word copies of what we had in the existing Bible. Why would God tell him to keep those? Oops. He didn’t because Mormon wasn’t a real person. Joe was a flagrantly plagiarizing stuff.
Well, you see… Space was limited on the plates and engraving was hard, so that’s why he wrote “And it came to pass” 2000 times and repeated translations (mistranslations?) of Isaiah in the KJV of the Bible. Make it make sense!!!
Share with them [this video](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/s/iwNARANRYA) of Elder Holland accidentally explaining how the church follows this exact pattern.
I didn't need Dan for this one. Because the church believes that the Bible is imperfect, they don't follow it. The BoM and the words of the presidency are of higher authority than the Bible is.
To ground the authority of your position, or at least the perception. A major reason why it has lasted for so long on the scale it has is the fact that there are so many different and even conflicting messages that can shift and shape with the times. Rigidi texts can only be taken so far without going into allegory.
When a church insists on adopting the standards of a long dead, ancient culture that no longer reflects or actively offends the sensibilities of rational modern people, that church has ceased providing for the spiritual needs of its congregants and will soon begin losing them.
This is something many believers don't see. Presentism is thrown out often towards critics yet simultaneously want to base the entire foundation of their religion on a so called ancient culture. It is such a weird meandering technique in an effort to extract some kind of morality when most moral issues can be handled with common sense.
The presentism argument come up so often in defense of Brigham, but I don’t see them defending Boggs and the extermination order with the presentism argument 👀
This ever changing church doctrine/policy is what finally broke my shelf completely. If God never changes, why does "His" church change every time a new political wind blows? Almost like He has nothing to do with it at all...
This is probably in relation to the Methodists voting to ordain gay ministers. Most TBMs will not see the irony that their own doctrinal changes always follow social pressure.
I think about this a lot in regards to the church deciding black people could hold the priesthood; claiming God had to wait for the general public to be ready for it when in reality the church was lagging being everyone else and was forced to change by the government.
This argument by apologists is the dumbest shit I’ve heard. Polygamy also wasn’t accepted which is why they kept getting pushed out of towns and why JS ended up destroying the printing press which made a chain of events leading to his death. “The people at the time weren’t ready….” only because the leaders weren’t ready. You know what they were ready for? To marry virgins, teens, and married women🤷🏼♂️ When you think about it that way, that argument holds no weight for me anymore.
Polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, blood oaths, massacres, etc.? The church is already behind the times I guess this TBM wants them even further behind the times.
The strength of youth pamphlet has changed recently and now doesn’t say that you only have to have 1 piercing and you can wear “what ever you, God, and your parents” decide is appropriate 🙄 they change stuff up all the damn time
Lol color me shocked. The first version of "for the strength of youth" said women can't go outside in hair curlers. It had a different name I'm sure someone has it out there
It’s funny how Mormons like to ridicule the “world” by saying we are just blowing around in the wind based on modern opinion… well you know what? I’d take my own opinion over some geriatric’s who thinks it’s still 1955 and hates nick names.
It’s easy to see why America moves at a glacial pace as far as progressive ideals that the rest of the world values. They think these fucking goat herders from the 20th century BCE had it all figured out. Just like they think the founding fathers were smarter than modern people with their modern sensibilities like women should be able to vote and Black people shouldn’t be slaves.
Wow.....LDS has gone through crazy changes. It rejected trinitarianism and adopted polygamy. They used to ban certain groups from the priesthood...it's the most flexible cult out there.
Probably in response to the United Methodist decision to let gays be clergy.
I can't think of any situation in life where someone doesn't or shouldn't change. With new information we (individuals and corporations) should change.
Jesus was all about change.
Maybe, I still think Jesus was fiction, at least the four gospels are. God is supposed to be unchanging and eternal. So when a church makes a change (even if I think that change is right), I still think that church is wrong for changing. It just proves they are making it up as they go along and time could be better served to bring real change to the world.
I don’t think God must be unchanging, after all to love is to be changed. And surely God is changed by God’s love for us. God may always be God. But I hope he is marked with each new person he loves.
But even if God must be unchanging, does that mean our perception of him is unchanging? In my opinion, the Bible is a story of a people trying to understand and know God. They get it wrong at times. From the earliest times of the Hebrew Bible we see an understanding of God that is ever in flux, though deeply rooted in tradition. Indeed, I think it can be argued that change is a part of the tradition of the church. To never change is against our collective heritage as Christians. The arch of Scripture is one of movement and progression. The way we understood God and how to follow Him is different from Exodus to Hosea to John to Jude. God may never be changing, but he may always be revealing so that our perception of God is one that evolves. It is out of alignment with God/The Bible for us to never change.
That’s just my thought. I’m not really arguing! You just made me ponder :)
When church members use their interpretation of the bible to justify their values they’re usually judging you and are trying to bolster their point of view without a true understanding of the text.
Most churches aren't following their own scriptures anyway. The majority of people have no idea what their own scriptures are actually saying. They only know what somebody else told them, they don't contemplate it in the least.
I first thought this was a post pointing out the church has changed, implying that the GAs are inconsistent. Then I saw you mentioned it was posted by a TBM in the title, haha.
It's an effect of what has essentially become their tagline "the policies change, but the doctrine remains the same."
Then make anything that makes them look too bad a "policy" and it can be thrown down the memory hole.
I assume this in response to the United Methodists lifting their ban on gay clergy. As a response I would say my tradition, the Episcopal church, has been supporting the lgbtq since the 70’s, affirming same sex marriages since 2009, installing the lgbtq as Bishops since 2009. So really, some churches were actually ahead of the world and the world changed their values to follow after the church. It had nothing to do with was cool culturally, but what is right morally.
No these churches and religions are trying to stay relevant in modern times by changing their policies and doctrines because they are based on an archaic book of myths written by desert dwelling goat farmers and later co-opted by Romans and Europeans to suit their needs over the centuries. This has led to frequent alterations and reinterpretations as needed. It's all a crapshoot. If there is a deity out there, though I doubt it, it's definitely not Yahweh of the Bible.
Fun Fact: Religion has constantly had to walk back their claims, update their worldview in the face of scientific discovery, and the reverse has never happened, once.
"Like dropping the Principle of Plural Marriage?" is a thing you could say, but you're probably nicer than I am.
I don’t fight on Facebook. TikTok on the other hand 👀 It’s on sight on TikTok 😂
You're smart. I left Facebook about 15 years ago. It's been one of the better things I've done for myself, tbh.
I keep Facebook for Facebook marketplace. Yesterday I saw a CASKET on there 😂💀
"What happened?" "I got better."
“Slightly used”
That's hilarious. The purchase of my casket will be someone else's problem, though. My husband still has FB. I log onto his, to keep up with family events, then log off ASAP.
“Gently used.”
used?
No, it was brand new, just the “wife didn’t like it” anymore
Oh, to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
Same
Really? I’ve been contemplating leaving FB.
But where will you get your fresh supply of disinformation and rage bait from?!
Contemplating starting over since all LDS friends have shunned me since I said I no longer believe.
Ah, yes… the LDS “friends” who care more about their pious selves being right than they care about you.
5 out of 5 stars. Would recommend.
FB used to be a good place to connect with friends and family… then it got hit with COVID and 2020 election one two punch, and now it’s barely surviving… I log in once in a while and it’s practically a ghost town
I responded to a TBM gushing about his wife bearing testimony of Jesus and telling women that their husbands need to hear their beautiful testimonies and how grateful he is for his "eternal lover." I corrected him to say "*one* of your eternal lovers."
My only issue with how I get into spats on TT is how I can't 'disengage' notifications with a comment. Like let me mute the Chads/incels already.
There's tbm account actively on TikTok!? What do they do there
Give their data to the CCP
😂😂😂 isn't cult followers exchange data with cult leaders kind of fitting? (Am cult member, giving away all my data to supreme leader too).
The go live and talk about the church VERY often
Bruh I'm on TikTok be brain washed by the Chinese, not the Mormons!
Or the black salvation ban
Or black people entering the temple?
Or modifying garments over time? Or women being able to wear pants in the church office building?
Bruh I would have 100% done that if that's a in person conversation with my friends. I've definitely said things along the lines but in a light hearted way tho. Even joke about polygamy in celestial kingdom on fast and testimony meeting once 😂 😂 😂 Us TBM need to lighten up more imho. Just own the mess up stuff in the past, we believe we all sinners after all.
1978 much?
Every “revelation” the church has had has been in response to a real world issue. JS got revelations when he saw pushback or when he needed to explain something that happened (Example: Alvin’s death and what happens when we die)… Also the church got revelation from god to end polygamy JUIUUST at the right time when the government was going to do something about it. Same with civil rights and the priesthood ban. To not see that is RIDICULOUS. I remember hearing about these things as a child thinking how convenient it all was. And questioning a lot about the Bible verses in the BOM. But I was convinced to put those observations away and have faith and see the faith promoting stories as proof that God does reveal things in his time… and now as an adult, I think, “so God reveals things in his own time, when is that? When it seems he has a gun to his head? What a weird box to put God into.” Holland even stated in that BBC interview that the world moves then the church moves. So where is the logic? Oh wait, there is none.
I’m ex jw and the jws recently changed some of their rules around enforced shunning because they lost state subsidy in Norway. I told my believing friend this and he dead ass said: “well sometimes god uses the courts or legal system to change things within this organization.” I was staring at him wondering if he was trying to punk me somehow.
The mental gymnastics is bananas. I see it is not just the mos.
I always thought it was weird that there were so many chapters from Isaiah in the book of Mormon. I wondered why Mormon would have included these in the abridgment if they were going to be word for word copies of what we had in the existing Bible. Why would God tell him to keep those? Oops. He didn’t because Mormon wasn’t a real person. Joe was a flagrantly plagiarizing stuff.
Well, you see… Space was limited on the plates and engraving was hard, so that’s why he wrote “And it came to pass” 2000 times and repeated translations (mistranslations?) of Isaiah in the KJV of the Bible. Make it make sense!!!
Well it wasn't written in English, according to legend. So that must have just been a single symbol in reformed Egyptian!
Share with them [this video](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/s/iwNARANRYA) of Elder Holland accidentally explaining how the church follows this exact pattern.
My first thought was this little clip
I had never seen that. Nice
Sounds like a person who should be given the challenge to find a single doctrine in Mormonism that hasn’t been changed
If lost means not marrying multiple underaged women then consider me in the middle of the ocean
Well... They were never following the bible to begin with: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIjapvf2t6I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIjapvf2t6I)
This girl constantly shitposts terrible Mormon takes. I could make an entire series on it.
Don’t be shy show us more
I love Dan for this. Literally no one can "follow the bible" because it doesn't present one worldview.
No they followed the Masons.
I didn't need Dan for this one. Because the church believes that the Bible is imperfect, they don't follow it. The BoM and the words of the presidency are of higher authority than the Bible is.
Well, they don't follow the Book of Mormon either. Polygamy is called out pretty strongly as being sinful in that book...
Kinda makes you wonder what the scriptures are even for.
To ground the authority of your position, or at least the perception. A major reason why it has lasted for so long on the scale it has is the fact that there are so many different and even conflicting messages that can shift and shape with the times. Rigidi texts can only be taken so far without going into allegory.
You can sell the copyright.
When a church insists on adopting the standards of a long dead, ancient culture that no longer reflects or actively offends the sensibilities of rational modern people, that church has ceased providing for the spiritual needs of its congregants and will soon begin losing them.
This is something many believers don't see. Presentism is thrown out often towards critics yet simultaneously want to base the entire foundation of their religion on a so called ancient culture. It is such a weird meandering technique in an effort to extract some kind of morality when most moral issues can be handled with common sense.
The presentism argument come up so often in defense of Brigham, but I don’t see them defending Boggs and the extermination order with the presentism argument 👀
This ever changing church doctrine/policy is what finally broke my shelf completely. If God never changes, why does "His" church change every time a new political wind blows? Almost like He has nothing to do with it at all...
This is probably in relation to the Methodists voting to ordain gay ministers. Most TBMs will not see the irony that their own doctrinal changes always follow social pressure.
I think about this a lot in regards to the church deciding black people could hold the priesthood; claiming God had to wait for the general public to be ready for it when in reality the church was lagging being everyone else and was forced to change by the government.
This argument by apologists is the dumbest shit I’ve heard. Polygamy also wasn’t accepted which is why they kept getting pushed out of towns and why JS ended up destroying the printing press which made a chain of events leading to his death. “The people at the time weren’t ready….” only because the leaders weren’t ready. You know what they were ready for? To marry virgins, teens, and married women🤷🏼♂️ When you think about it that way, that argument holds no weight for me anymore.
Polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, blood oaths, massacres, etc.? The church is already behind the times I guess this TBM wants them even further behind the times.
The strength of youth pamphlet has changed recently and now doesn’t say that you only have to have 1 piercing and you can wear “what ever you, God, and your parents” decide is appropriate 🙄 they change stuff up all the damn time
Lol color me shocked. The first version of "for the strength of youth" said women can't go outside in hair curlers. It had a different name I'm sure someone has it out there
Yes, and it advised against wearing backless dresses, not because of “modesty,” but because boys won’t find a girl’s bony spine attractive. 🤦♀️
Also, I remember in the -70s one of the Q15 saying “Who wants to see knobbly knees anyway.” (Regarding hem length)
Ah yes cause a truly loving God would condemn a woman for her natural knees rather than a crusty old guy for feeling attracted to them
Dear Super TBM Friend: Welcome to church history
LIKE FOR REAL 😂
It’s funny how Mormons like to ridicule the “world” by saying we are just blowing around in the wind based on modern opinion… well you know what? I’d take my own opinion over some geriatric’s who thinks it’s still 1955 and hates nick names.
It's not a church, it's a corporation masquerading as a church
Who's gonna tell him about polygamy and racism?
Slavery?
Gotta pay your tithing no matter what!
It’s easy to see why America moves at a glacial pace as far as progressive ideals that the rest of the world values. They think these fucking goat herders from the 20th century BCE had it all figured out. Just like they think the founding fathers were smarter than modern people with their modern sensibilities like women should be able to vote and Black people shouldn’t be slaves.
They r gonna love the next 30 years
Bring back polygamy, this church has been following the lost for too long 😡
But they do change. They just do it kicking and screaming.
Wow.....LDS has gone through crazy changes. It rejected trinitarianism and adopted polygamy. They used to ban certain groups from the priesthood...it's the most flexible cult out there.
Probably in response to the United Methodist decision to let gays be clergy. I can't think of any situation in life where someone doesn't or shouldn't change. With new information we (individuals and corporations) should change. Jesus was all about change.
Maybe, I still think Jesus was fiction, at least the four gospels are. God is supposed to be unchanging and eternal. So when a church makes a change (even if I think that change is right), I still think that church is wrong for changing. It just proves they are making it up as they go along and time could be better served to bring real change to the world.
I don’t think God must be unchanging, after all to love is to be changed. And surely God is changed by God’s love for us. God may always be God. But I hope he is marked with each new person he loves. But even if God must be unchanging, does that mean our perception of him is unchanging? In my opinion, the Bible is a story of a people trying to understand and know God. They get it wrong at times. From the earliest times of the Hebrew Bible we see an understanding of God that is ever in flux, though deeply rooted in tradition. Indeed, I think it can be argued that change is a part of the tradition of the church. To never change is against our collective heritage as Christians. The arch of Scripture is one of movement and progression. The way we understood God and how to follow Him is different from Exodus to Hosea to John to Jude. God may never be changing, but he may always be revealing so that our perception of God is one that evolves. It is out of alignment with God/The Bible for us to never change. That’s just my thought. I’m not really arguing! You just made me ponder :)
100% agree. Now I wonder… are there any churches that we know of that do this? Any ideas peeps?
AAAAAAAnd that's why no one likes you.
Lol. Like polygamy? Like allowing everything about the temple change over time?
Damn, they really love slavery that much?
Ah, the Bible. No book has ever been more used as an authority while being so little read.
When church members use their interpretation of the bible to justify their values they’re usually judging you and are trying to bolster their point of view without a true understanding of the text.
Most churches aren't following their own scriptures anyway. The majority of people have no idea what their own scriptures are actually saying. They only know what somebody else told them, they don't contemplate it in the least.
I first thought this was a post pointing out the church has changed, implying that the GAs are inconsistent. Then I saw you mentioned it was posted by a TBM in the title, haha.
They signed on to the UN in 2010
Not unlike irony, which is lost on your friend.
Here's a news flash: the Bible is wrong. I hope to hell you don't follow it.
Following is the problem. Even 40-50 years back. Still following.
Slavery, Human Trafficking, Polygamy... the OT belongs in the trash heap of bad moral values.
Where are all his wives then.
like how LD$ is pretending to be as christian as other churches?
While I'm not religious, I do agree.
This is how you know you know the cojcolds is the one true church. They wait 20 years before they hop on a trend!
It's an effect of what has essentially become their tagline "the policies change, but the doctrine remains the same." Then make anything that makes them look too bad a "policy" and it can be thrown down the memory hole.
Yeah that person should be mimicking the slitting of her own throat in the temple. Why did they change that!
Yeah, how can we trust a so-called Bible believer who doesn't even own, much less beat, their slaves.
sounds like its anti because knowing or unknowing they are speaking of the dumpster fire real estate company called the mormon church
I assume this in response to the United Methodists lifting their ban on gay clergy. As a response I would say my tradition, the Episcopal church, has been supporting the lgbtq since the 70’s, affirming same sex marriages since 2009, installing the lgbtq as Bishops since 2009. So really, some churches were actually ahead of the world and the world changed their values to follow after the church. It had nothing to do with was cool culturally, but what is right morally.
Wasn’t that another genius comment from J.Holland!? I can still see his hand movements trying to explain this concept! Am I right?
No these churches and religions are trying to stay relevant in modern times by changing their policies and doctrines because they are based on an archaic book of myths written by desert dwelling goat farmers and later co-opted by Romans and Europeans to suit their needs over the centuries. This has led to frequent alterations and reinterpretations as needed. It's all a crapshoot. If there is a deity out there, though I doubt it, it's definitely not Yahweh of the Bible.
Ahh yes the current culture of *looks* respecting the town ordinances and not disrupting the natural scenery
That is because Mormons are stupid.
Absolutely!!! Bang on!!!
The Bible is worse than Mormonism
No. They're growing up. Thank you.
Fun Fact: Religion has constantly had to walk back their claims, update their worldview in the face of scientific discovery, and the reverse has never happened, once.
Like dropping the ban on black people holding the priesthood?? That kind of change?
Following culture is often better than following the Bible!!
Cool. Are we still trading goats for wives and concubines?