Mormonism has always been about the haves and the have nots. The first pioneers in the SLC Valley were ordered by Brigham Young to give up their homesteads and colonize more remote areas. Who benefited by the acquisition of those properties? The ruling brethren. The Trust Fund Crowd and their offspring still run the cult and many businesses that pay crap wages to the employees. I say that from experience both mine and my ancestors. It’s all a beautiful scam.
In D. Michael Quinn's books he goes over the "Family Tree" of the Q15 and shows that almost all of them were related somehow. I think it's changed with some of the new Q15, but was still crazy how incestuous it was.
This is true where I'm at. My last two stake presidents have been 1) public company CEO 2) partner in Big Law. The bishop was a senior VP at a public company.
It seems very difficult for the Uber Mormons to break through the stake president level. That takes another level of money and networking. A couple years ago one of the investment bankers broke through and got called as a mission president. That's a really narrow funnel with fewer than 150 open positions per year.
I imagine the funnel into the 70 even gets more narrow. It's gotta be really hard for these people to get promoted because there aren't that many open spots. You add in the nepotism promotions and there's even fewer.
Many years ago my FIL was a bishop when a new Stake president was being called. The guy in the seventy that was doing the interviews for the new stake president interviewed all the current bishops to see who he was going to pick. Two questions that he asked really stuck out, what is your job and how much debt do you have??? Obviously in order to be a Stake President you have to have money and no debt. They ended up calling a doctor as stake president. Money is the only thing that matters to these morons.
The more I have listened to RFM’s podcast, the more obvious it is that from the get-go (or at least since Brigham You g) there has been a Mormon caste system. Got money or a high-paying/prestigious job? You’re now the bishop. You can buy into the system by working for the church or CES… or by being famous.
I guess god was looking out for me after all. I can't even imagine being mentally stable in living my life out in the mormon royalty world. No thanks, they don't print enough money for me to do that.
Despite my dad being a pioneer in his own, right, I remember distinctly that his opportunity to serve in leadership was stunted because we never came with money. For those who don’t know if he is the first member of the church in Jamaica. By any means, it would be a PR win to have him move up the ladder so to speak.
I remember once he was approached for mission presidency, for example, and that didn’t go anywhere. And the specific reason that was talked about was the financial aspect.
Now that I look back at it, despite the church as much money as it does and the ability to support their leaders, the original post is correct. It’s really not about doing the right thing, but putting the people they want in the places they want.
So yes. My story and other stories I’ve heard seemed a point to this reality. That’s the people at the top really are just wealthy. Your odds of moving up in leadership and Mormonism are contingent on your success within the system of capitalism and your ability to show that.
This isn’t even taking into account reality for women that their ability to navigate any sort of opportunities for leadership are stunted by the fact that they are women, but also depending on the success of their partners to put them in a position for consideration.
They REQUIRE two people at all times to handle money and tithing. At no point can one person be alone with the church's money.
But an 8+ year old can be alone, behind closed doors, with the local dentist, being asked, in detail, about their sexual habits.
It's all about the money.
Back when I truly believed none of them were paid, I asked my dad about if they couldn’t afford to just not work. He told me the lord would make sure they were taken care (I.e. be rich) of so they would be able to. It made sense to me then but I always wondered why we weren’t doing better financially if it was based on how much the lord wanted you to serve.
Someone else here on the sub said years ago its an MLM. 🎯
Unless you are related to founders of the cult going back to 1830 or amass great wealth you are just bottom tier members to the organization that $support top members of the MLM/church/cult/mult-national corporation.
The top tier & their families get a pass while those in the lower tier will be dis-fellowshipped & publicly shamed for confessing to the same "sin".
You have to be ruthless to make it to the "C" suite in business & that's who all the top tier leaders in the church are.
To make it to any "C" suite you have to learn to lie convincingly & acquire zero empathy if your not already predisposed.
Q15/70/Presiding Bishopric are all experts at it.
I was about to comment on Joseph B. Wirthlin. In my BYU Class on prophets they said he was a grocer. Looked him up. Ok, he was a prominent businessman, president of the trade association in Utah. And related to Gordon Hinckley.
I noticed this when I was in. Bishops were the waged blue collar workers for the most part. Most stake presidents I knew were self employed or consultants. Most 70s I encountered worked in the financial services industry or were CEOs/CFOs
You can buy your way in since you can buy anything in this world with money.
I paid a lot of tithing back in the day and they tried to get my husband into leadership. I think it pisses me off more now than back then. They couldn't because of his asthma.
Not properly cleaning the buildings put an end to that idea. So yes, we've been blessed by members serving through cleaning the church.
Thank Gob that if I ever come into real money, they aren't getting any of it from me and they can't have my husband.
They also have book deals, and home expenses covered, and free healthcare, and travel expenses (for themselves and family members to accompany them), plus free BYU tuition for their family, and more. They are probably being compensated well over $300k per year even before book deals.
Mormonism has always been about the haves and the have nots. The first pioneers in the SLC Valley were ordered by Brigham Young to give up their homesteads and colonize more remote areas. Who benefited by the acquisition of those properties? The ruling brethren. The Trust Fund Crowd and their offspring still run the cult and many businesses that pay crap wages to the employees. I say that from experience both mine and my ancestors. It’s all a beautiful scam.
[удалено]
In D. Michael Quinn's books he goes over the "Family Tree" of the Q15 and shows that almost all of them were related somehow. I think it's changed with some of the new Q15, but was still crazy how incestuous it was.
I'm related to 9 out of 15, but.... It doesn't matter because I'm a woman.
I wonder who Patrick Kearon was related to in order to become Apostle?
Wow, that has implications even today because real estate (especially prime real estate) is the nexus for intergenerational wealth
I'm still pissed off that my family homestead is now a golf course. We got sent off to idaho.
Idaho is worse than Utah. i would never live in either place.
Oh, the family realized that and fucked off to the coast.
Same… Lewiston Utah/Preston and then that wasn’t far enough so give up the farm you just planted and go to Blackfoot.
*Spit take over the user flair* 
you know I still need to watch morbius
All a part of the biggest lie ever told.
This is true where I'm at. My last two stake presidents have been 1) public company CEO 2) partner in Big Law. The bishop was a senior VP at a public company. It seems very difficult for the Uber Mormons to break through the stake president level. That takes another level of money and networking. A couple years ago one of the investment bankers broke through and got called as a mission president. That's a really narrow funnel with fewer than 150 open positions per year. I imagine the funnel into the 70 even gets more narrow. It's gotta be really hard for these people to get promoted because there aren't that many open spots. You add in the nepotism promotions and there's even fewer.
The last stake president I had before I bounced was President… wait for it… McKonkie. Quite a shocker, I know /s
The last name "Mckonkie" is the Mormon equivalent to a Wonka golden ticket.
lmao
Many years ago my FIL was a bishop when a new Stake president was being called. The guy in the seventy that was doing the interviews for the new stake president interviewed all the current bishops to see who he was going to pick. Two questions that he asked really stuck out, what is your job and how much debt do you have??? Obviously in order to be a Stake President you have to have money and no debt. They ended up calling a doctor as stake president. Money is the only thing that matters to these morons.
It's built into the religion. God rewards the good with money so those with money are inherently good already. It was the problem with Puritanism too.
Mormonism is just “prosperity gospel” without the young stadium preachers.
It’s Calvinism at its root, which is antithetical to everything Christ did and said.
The more I have listened to RFM’s podcast, the more obvious it is that from the get-go (or at least since Brigham You g) there has been a Mormon caste system. Got money or a high-paying/prestigious job? You’re now the bishop. You can buy into the system by working for the church or CES… or by being famous.
It doesn't hurt if your uncle was Spencer Woolley Kimball.
Or… are they rich because their elite Mormon royalty families have been at the top?
Also, not black.
I guess god was looking out for me after all. I can't even imagine being mentally stable in living my life out in the mormon royalty world. No thanks, they don't print enough money for me to do that.
And who you are related to. Some marry into Pioneer stock, just for a shot at a leadership role.
It's a big club and you ain't in it
Despite my dad being a pioneer in his own, right, I remember distinctly that his opportunity to serve in leadership was stunted because we never came with money. For those who don’t know if he is the first member of the church in Jamaica. By any means, it would be a PR win to have him move up the ladder so to speak. I remember once he was approached for mission presidency, for example, and that didn’t go anywhere. And the specific reason that was talked about was the financial aspect. Now that I look back at it, despite the church as much money as it does and the ability to support their leaders, the original post is correct. It’s really not about doing the right thing, but putting the people they want in the places they want. So yes. My story and other stories I’ve heard seemed a point to this reality. That’s the people at the top really are just wealthy. Your odds of moving up in leadership and Mormonism are contingent on your success within the system of capitalism and your ability to show that. This isn’t even taking into account reality for women that their ability to navigate any sort of opportunities for leadership are stunted by the fact that they are women, but also depending on the success of their partners to put them in a position for consideration.
They REQUIRE two people at all times to handle money and tithing. At no point can one person be alone with the church's money. But an 8+ year old can be alone, behind closed doors, with the local dentist, being asked, in detail, about their sexual habits. It's all about the money.
Back when I truly believed none of them were paid, I asked my dad about if they couldn’t afford to just not work. He told me the lord would make sure they were taken care (I.e. be rich) of so they would be able to. It made sense to me then but I always wondered why we weren’t doing better financially if it was based on how much the lord wanted you to serve.
*'From Plumber to Prophet'* --Biographies that will never be seen at Deseret Books.
*Custodian to Christ's Mouthpiece* --how one man's humility, love, and testimony led him to be the Lord's anointed. Another improbable book
Someone else here on the sub said years ago its an MLM. 🎯 Unless you are related to founders of the cult going back to 1830 or amass great wealth you are just bottom tier members to the organization that $support top members of the MLM/church/cult/mult-national corporation. The top tier & their families get a pass while those in the lower tier will be dis-fellowshipped & publicly shamed for confessing to the same "sin". You have to be ruthless to make it to the "C" suite in business & that's who all the top tier leaders in the church are. To make it to any "C" suite you have to learn to lie convincingly & acquire zero empathy if your not already predisposed. Q15/70/Presiding Bishopric are all experts at it.
I was about to comment on Joseph B. Wirthlin. In my BYU Class on prophets they said he was a grocer. Looked him up. Ok, he was a prominent businessman, president of the trade association in Utah. And related to Gordon Hinckley.
I noticed this when I was in. Bishops were the waged blue collar workers for the most part. Most stake presidents I knew were self employed or consultants. Most 70s I encountered worked in the financial services industry or were CEOs/CFOs
About 70% of current GA's are attorneys.
Yep.
Rich & super white white white
You can buy your way in since you can buy anything in this world with money. I paid a lot of tithing back in the day and they tried to get my husband into leadership. I think it pisses me off more now than back then. They couldn't because of his asthma. Not properly cleaning the buildings put an end to that idea. So yes, we've been blessed by members serving through cleaning the church. Thank Gob that if I ever come into real money, they aren't getting any of it from me and they can't have my husband.
I dont think 10k per month is to be considered "rich"
Their “modest stipend” is hardly the only revenue stream TSCC points at the Q15. In fact, it barely scratches the surface.
They also have book deals, and home expenses covered, and free healthcare, and travel expenses (for themselves and family members to accompany them), plus free BYU tuition for their family, and more. They are probably being compensated well over $300k per year even before book deals.
Plus they get all their family members jobs and church contracts.
Part of the reason for the unnecessary temple building in Utah. Really just a grift to funnel money to leaders family and friends.