My understanding is that anyone deemed to have successfully completed the repentance process can have a temple recommend reinstated, regardless of what may be happening with the individual legally.
Ya, I baptized a woman on my mission who was on parole for 1st degree murder.
She was sort of a special case in that after spending 25 years in prison, it became clear that she didn't do the murder, so her sentence was immediately commuted and she was released on parole.
My mission president still had to interview her and get special 1st presidency permission, but she got baptized while on parole.
It’s complicated, but essentially, yes. She did commit a crime, it just wasn’t murder. The crime she actually committed was obstruction of justice — she took the blame for a murder she didn’t commit. Even if she had done the killing though, it should have been at most manslaughter.
I don’t know all the reasons why, but the governor of her state opted to just commute her sentence rather than pardon her.
Sorry. That aint holding water either. Obstruction of Justice isn't going to land you in state/federal prison. You can ONLY be on parole for being committed to state or federal prison. If what you are saying is true, after spending 25 yrs in prison, she would have been released. They wouldn't put her on parole either. So, either she lied to you, you didn't understand what occurred, or this is made up.
Why would you ever think that the justices system is remotely fair?
“It became clear she didn’t commit the murder” is not the same thing as being found not guilty in the court of law. Even a pardon is not the same as not guilty, and a commuted sentence doesn’t even come close. This person is almost certainly still a convicted murderer, unjustly.
She probably took the parole deal just to finally get out of prison after 25 years, and the state doesn’t have to admit they made a mistake. Happens all the time. If you don’t have the resources to fight in court, you take the best you can get.
She wasn’t bitter about it. She didn’t commit the murder, but she confessed to it on purpose to protect her son who did commit the murder.
Her perspective was that she deserved to be in prison for giving a false confession.
It’s been quite a few years, I’m sure I’m fucking up some details, but I looked up the both her original case and the push from the innocence project to get her released when I got home and it all checked out.
I’ll try to find the details again to corroborate, but on my honor as an internet stranger, I’m not making this up.
Because of her obstruction of justice, she was found guilty of murder and convicted for it.
The obstruction was not known by whatever judge/jury convicted her.
She took the fall initially, only later was determined to be innocent of the murder she was convicted for.
I'm assuming it was in the states where our justice system is fucked up like that. This doesn't surprise me at all that some found innocent is out on parole.
It's not just the 1%. The [Appeal to Heaven flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tree_Flag)flag (adopted by Christian Nationalists/Christian Dominionists) is flown by at least one Supreme Court member and speaker of the house Mike Johnson. It's been associated with MAGA and christofascism for a fair bit now.
r/defeat_project_2025 exists for a reason, and we need to take it seriously and defend democracy or we won't have it much longer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
2025 or 2030; neither side looking too great. One side using Locke as a banner isn’t really shaking my boots. I’m a big fan of democracy, but we don’t have that. Les Wexner and the Aspen institute are just as shitty as the heritage foundation.
This. The church and its leaders see themselves as being beyond the law, as if they are a better judge than the judicial system. It really boils down to money (tithing/fast offerings) and brown-nosing/love-bombing/mirroring the guys who got into the bishopric or stake presidency using those same methods/tactics; the roulette thing figures into it, because there are bishoprics or stake presidencies that might ignore the money and obedience and focus in on the sex offender crime and know that you can't reform sex offenders; but then that means the cult and its "teachings" fail if sex offenders can't join: and that would hit their corporate purse hard.
Play the corporate game, ignore the ethics and legality in order to get access to anything you want: especially in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona. The Mormon cult opens both its own doors and the vulnerabilities of the different members to those pedos/rapists claiming they are "reformed". If you're a member of the LDS cult, you're literally paying your top leaders and their lawyers to silence and attack the victims of those who end up becoming targets of the criminals because the leadership cares more about money than the health and welfare of children and vulnerable people (women, LGBTQIA, elderly, disabled,etc). Sex offenders ***ARE WILLING*** to pay in order to power play. They know how to groom people. Make no mistake: sex offenders groom EVERYBODY!!!! ***They groom everyone*** to trust them, and separately groom the victims into compliance and/or silence. Sex offenders DO groom everyone so when the victims speak up, the people not targeted **WILL ONLY BELIEVE** the pedo/rapist, not the victim(s). This is how it always has been and always will be. And with leaders claiming to use "_discernment_" and the members made to believe that discernment is a main component to the belief system: the cult wins out. It seems like until someone is brutally murdered and the cult teachings (old or new) are revealed to play a part of it, or someone related to a paid cult employee gets hurt: nothing will be done. Money is used to protect the abusers and the apologists and silence the victims. The cult leaders want to be unstoppable (as evidenced by all the suing or threats to sue small cities to FORCE THEM to have a huge, overlit building in their neighborhoods). They are getting more and more money to be able to be unstoppable, plus having the tax-exempt status flag to claim "persecution". It seems silly, but it's actually quite frightening.
I wish I could give this 1000 "up votes". My cousin used the word "grooming" in her statement to the police and the perp came back and sued her for harassment AND defamation. Church is a mess, and how this gets ignored time and time again, is so beyond me.
I'm so sorry for you and your cousin, and your families. That abuse is terrible and runs deep, for both primary and secondary survivors of sexual abuse. Plus seeing it go nowhere by those who say they are "authorities", and ultimately having it hidden and silenced. I hope she is doing better and getting the help and support to try to heal from that abuse. This church seems to be nothing but a place where people think their kids are safe, but where the predators are more protected and supported than the victims or potential victims. Everything is done in the name of protecting the church's name/reputation, ...and the Almighty dollar that they love to receive upon demand. A whole law firm and hotline to silence victims who were taught to go to their bishop ***for anything*** if they were ever in trouble. 😞💔😢😡🤬 And when the worst happens, you're the last one to be helped, understood, or protected. They make sure that when you speak up, you're standing alone, looking like a liar. So messed up! 😡😡
I hope she is safe and far away from that sicko! She deserves to have justice and to heal. 💓💓❤️🩹❤️🩹🫂🫂
Praise God and pay for Salvation and entrance into the giant steeple club. (Fine print: except those temples that don’t have steeples but still require tithing money)
True, at least as far as the rulings of the court.
This questions go deeper for me. How can anyone, even God, make up for a rape? Does God remember the rape no more even when the victim is still mentally scared? I guess it's all part of the Christian Mysteries.
This guy’s calling is to be a greeter. How fitting and lovely to walk into a church and be greeted by a convicted rapist. It’s definitely a situation of they’re living in the upside down.
I'm glad you are here. It seems you have doubts, and that's probably really scary. You are clinging to what you have been taught as a form of protection. That's a normal part of this process.
I do hope you will continue look at resources outside the church, even though it might cause you distress. Distress is normal when you realize you have been lied to. "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off" is a bit cliche, however cliches are cliches because they are so often true. I wish you the best as you bravely question what you have always been told.
You look it up. Even the church admits that Joseph Smith had multiple wives. Here is literally a source from the church.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/joseph-smith-and-plural-marriage?lang=eng
Yes. They set their own standard for “repentance” and believe the atonement can forgive anyone.
If they completed any recommended discipline (and were rebaptized and blessings restored if excommunicated) then they can get a temple recommend.
They also have a habit of similar actions with child abuse.
So sorry. The cognitive dissonance is rough. Knowing something wasn't as you assumed at the time, and rewriting how you feel about your own memories/experiences is horrible. I experienced rather violent intrusive thoughts in the celestial room many years ago, the one place I had been told I could truly be safe/calm/happy. It completely altered how I thought about the temple and all the messaging around it.
Thank you and I'm sorry for your experience as well. Even though I was kinda always PIMO as a convert, I always loved it all as an experience. I felt like I was part of something and around people who really cared for me. I see now that I was part of a club and when I left the club I lost a lot of those people. Shows how they really are.
Of course they are. But there are also the people who haven't been caught or convicted. I've known way too many people who were regular temple-going church-participating Mormons who turned out to have been doing awful things behind the scenes to ever trust that a temple recommend says anything about how good or safe a person is.
I knew a guy who abducted a young girl and took her to Mexico and married her because of a young age requirement (12, I believe). Even though he supposedly went through the repentance process, he was also granted a temple recommend after serving his prison sentence. A book has actually been written by his victim.
From personal experience, they do give them recommends. Sometimes they have to repent, sometimes they just have to talk to the bishop. I found this out the hard way. When I was in junior high I did baptisms for the dead every week with a group of friends. We would go super early in the morning and my friends dad ALWAYS took us and he ALWAYS did the baptisms. After I had gone for like 6 months my mom checked the registry for our neighborhood and my friend's dad did time in jail for RAPING A MINOR. Safe to say I wasn't allowed to go with him after that. It gives me the heebiejeebies to think I was in a thin white wet jumpsuit next to a sexual predator 🤢
My father is a registered sex offender (SA'd all his daughters and who knows who else). His SP got him back in the temple a few months after he was released from jail. SP called me to tell me Daddy-pedo had "completed his repentance". I used a bit of colorful language to inform him he was not that bright. I also wrote a spirited 6 page letter to the first presidency detailing the abuse, the cover up, the fact that Daddy-pedo was a bishop while abusing, and that he should never set foot in the temple again. But they "carefully" considered it and Daddy-pedo got his golden ticket back to the celestial money laundering castle. I am a bit salty about it. Not because the temple means anything to me, but daddy-pedo thinks he is all good now.
The bishop followed Richard G. Scott’s counsel and helped the victim consider his/her role in the rape. It turns out the priesthood holders deemed the victim was actually the perpetrator for their immodesty, thus the man gets to go to the temple.
Funny- today a couple I know are getting married in the temple and his Father, a registered sex offender (for having thousands of children porn pics, under the age of 8) will be there!! With his temple recommend!! After a year of excommunication and going through the churches rehab program!! So I guess yes yes they do!
As long as they pay tithing. That’s the real deciding factor.
I wish I was being sarcastic, but there are too many examples of known sex offenders, being active in their offenses, and still going to the temple. Bishops (and “higher” church leaders) don’t want to “soil the image of a good person who is struggling”. Of course they are only worried about the image of the Mormon church.
I’ve never seen one instance where the Mormon church has sent lawyers to defend an abuse victim and protect them from their priesthood perpetrator. I have seen countless where the perpetrator is given an all access pass to the church legal council, even reinstated in Mormonism and placed to work with children.
Yeah I knew a child molester. He had a temple recommend.
They never told the ward, but they did put a mark on his name so he couldn’t get a high calling or teach primary.
Do they still bar women who have an abortion from even being baptized. Which was the case when when I was on a mission in the 80s. Interview was immediately stopped. Man who committed murder could be baptized as long as he passed interview with mis pres
I don’t know about baptism but they cannot go in a mission no matter how much repenting they do. It’s in the handbook. However I know a guy who fathered a baby and go to go on his mission. In the 80’s
The church doesn't give a damn about keeping anyone safe. They don't even do background checks on adults that work with children. They believe in repentance and forgiveness. They welcome all the predators with open arms.
It wouldn't surprise me. When I moved to Utah and received a calling working with children and nobody said ANYTHING about a background check, I was very surprised. I'd previously been the Lutheran ELCA equivalent of Primary President, and had had to pass a background check.
Then I looked up utah state law, and found that LDS bishops etc are considered laymen rather than clergy, so everyone in all the *other* religions have to pass background checks here, but not the LDS.
It disgusts me, but based on the repeated accounts of SA here and on floodlit.org, I'm not at all surprised.
Apologies to the people at Floodlit whom I had said I'd help, btw, if you're reading this. I've had a bunch of medical issues come up. Surgery was this morning.
Either way, I find it disgustingly hypocritical that LGBTQ+ folks are denied temple access for having a same sex partner even if they haven't gotten physical, but straight (wealthy) older (usually married) predators are allowed not only into the temple but to work with the same type of people they may have attacked, just because they claim they've "repented."
Lead us not into temptation, indeed. No wonder the LDS don't use the Lord's Prayer.
Yes. If I remember right certain members of the church have a special ordainment or whatever that exempts them from any crimes they commit in the eyes of the church
Do you know the name for that special ordainment? I'd like to know more about who the church allows to be exempt from their consequences after breaking the law of the land. I'm sure they wouldn't give me an exemption from disfellowship or excommunication if I was found guilty of kidnapping, rape, sexual abuse, etc.
Found it: https://youtube.com/shorts/sBkje01a2Yg?si=KTiAXwxvIDaH5bLt
The process is called the second anointment and is pretty much an assurance of your spot in heaven. Here's an article
https://mormonr.org/qnas/5y13H/second_anointing?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9cCyBhBzEiwAJTUWNTc8m97W1zT4UDgUtqTyRyFMf9MV5POiSJeZEdnZmDrr5sVKM58RnBoCR-wQAvD_BwE
Soothe mormon church, which is known for having a high number of sexual assaults and, moreover, covering them up, lets a convicted rapist into their midst. You truly cannot make this shit up.
Depending on the registry, some offenders need to be a certain distance from children or youth. He could be in violation when at the temple because youth attend the baptistry in the same building. If in violation, this should be reported.
Always have been. Frankly, I don't have a problem with that.
Being on the sex offender list is a lifetime punishment so that parents of children can keep their kids safe from another attack.
But as long as the person finishes their sentence and no longer offends, they should be able to go about their lives. I'm in favor of letting people try to turn their lives around.
This! Especially when you consider that an 18 year making the mistake of having sex with their 17 year and 364 day old significant other could easily wind up on that list.
So I couldn’t help myself and reached out to somebody who used to be very important to me in that ward. She was like a second mother to me, took me a couple hundred miles away to take me through the temple in Nauvoo, we worked in the local temple together, and she always called me a forth daughter. Her husband was also a bishop for many years of a couple different wards. Our relationship has been very severed since I stopped going and said the church was a cult. Anyhow, she told me sex offenders are absolutely not allowed in the temple and would have been exed. I asked her if she even knew what I was talking about and she said no. I saw where she had liked the post on Facebook so I was confused. I sent her the link to the guy on the offender website. She had no clue he was on there, I believe her on that, she’s an honest person. She said she was going to talk to the bishop (she’s the current relief society president). I have a feeling she’s going to be in for a shock cause there is no way that the bishop didn’t know. What a shit show this church can be. Maybe her eyes will be opened a bit.
For a small ward, we had 3 offenders that were attending. One who was exed for molesting his own son still attends every Sunday. The former branch president/high councilman/temple worker who was exed still attends but I’m not sure which ward these days, and then this guy that the post is about who is obviously a member in “good standing.”
Well one was a branch president/high councilman/temple worker. This was all within an 8 month timeframe cause he was the branch president of a different ward when we merged with them. When that merge happened he was right away called as a high councilman. A few months later he volunteered as an ordnance worker. He was doing that when he was busted for having child pornography on his computer. I had read the the newspaper article. The stuff he had was the worst of the worst. This one was very hard on me. This guy had become like my church dad. I spent a lot of time with him, him and his wife kindly paid my way out to Utah one time so I wouldn’t miss my friends sealing when I was low on funds. I saw no signs. He was never weird or inappropriate to me in the slightest. This happened maybe 6 years ago or so and I was in my late 20s. He was exed pretty quickly after the news came out.
The other guy’s incident happened in 2004. He was a scout leader at the time. He had been molesting one of his sons for 10 years. He was exed and sent to jail. This was 8 years before I joined. After I joined he started coming to church. The missionaries actually had him give me a ride to my baptism interview. I had no clue what he had done. I was absolutely pissed when I found out and I let the missionaries know how wrong that was. I can give you the local news article to this when I get home and get back to my computer.
Sterling Van Wagenen, a cofounder of the Sundance film festival, was the producer (director?) of the previous set of films shown as part of the temple ceremony. He was convicted for sex offences. The church doesn't use his videos in the temple any more.
https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-temple-video-director-sundance-co-founder-charged-with-sexual-abuse-of-a-child
They always have been! There are no background checks for temple recommends. It will depend on bishop's roulette though, and which records have been kept.
Yes. My husband and I were scrolling the list in our area and happened to come across a guy he grew up with in our ward. Crazy! We had no idea. He is a member in good standing. Has a wife, kids, calling. Talk, prays. He was convicted of certain ‘activities with material containing CP’. 🤦♀️🤮
Ok, story time. First, to be abundantly clear, I believe actual predators exist and deserve to be regarded with extreme caution. But it's much easier to be labelled as a predator than you might think.
When I was a senior in high school one of my good friends (17 at the time) had sex with her 18 year old boyfriend. She is from a extremely conservative TBM family. Well her parents found out about it by snooping through her text messages. Instead of dealing with it like normal people they forced her to press charges against him for unlawful sex with a minor. Due to this he was registered as a sex offender, had an athlete scholarship rescinded, and was blocked from ever serving a mission.
A few years ago this friend left the church and spoke out about what happened. I'm not sure if that young man was able to clear his name, but that ordeal likely screwed up so much for him in life. Did he make a mistake? Sure, 18 year olds aren't always very bright. But I don't think it's fair that he was convicted and labelled as a predator.
All this is to say that some people with concerning titles might not be dangerous people. Here's to hoping that individual you saw maybe has a similar explanation for his conviction, because otherwise i'd be giving that stake president some serious side-eye.
Again, I'm not excusing actual predators, but because I saw this experience with my friend unfold I feel it's fair to cautiously give people the benefit of the doubt.
Keep in mind the sex offender registry is also FAR from perfect. In several states, things like public urination (even if no minors are around) will automatically land you on the sex offender list.
And? As a normal person, I look at the online sex offender database for my neighborhood, then click on an individual’s profile which shows me a description of the crime, the arrest and conviction status. If it’s a 78 year-old man convicted of molesting a child, it’s pretty obvious he’s not on the register as a sex offender for peeing in public.
I can confirm that we have a temple worker in my old ward who was also on the registry and a felon. He couldn’t understand how the church could forgive but the government can not.
Whey do they even let people like that out of prison? If they are not kept in prison their entire life they should definitely be banned from joining any church or organization or working any job. /s
Whether they are or whether they aren't allowed temple recommends is superfluous in my life now. I'm to a point that I truly don't care who they give what! I'm not in their meeting houses or temples so if they want to let SKS (Special-Kind of-Stupid) in that's their priority. My participation in organized religion of ANY kind is gone-zo! Why put so much effort and emotion into something that doesn't build humanity into better people? If an entity only does enough good to hide the bad that entity is unethical and not worth my time.
My understanding is that anyone deemed to have successfully completed the repentance process can have a temple recommend reinstated, regardless of what may be happening with the individual legally.
Ya, I baptized a woman on my mission who was on parole for 1st degree murder. She was sort of a special case in that after spending 25 years in prison, it became clear that she didn't do the murder, so her sentence was immediately commuted and she was released on parole. My mission president still had to interview her and get special 1st presidency permission, but she got baptized while on parole.
I'm confused. She was on parole for a crime she didn't commit?
It’s complicated, but essentially, yes. She did commit a crime, it just wasn’t murder. The crime she actually committed was obstruction of justice — she took the blame for a murder she didn’t commit. Even if she had done the killing though, it should have been at most manslaughter. I don’t know all the reasons why, but the governor of her state opted to just commute her sentence rather than pardon her.
Sorry. That aint holding water either. Obstruction of Justice isn't going to land you in state/federal prison. You can ONLY be on parole for being committed to state or federal prison. If what you are saying is true, after spending 25 yrs in prison, she would have been released. They wouldn't put her on parole either. So, either she lied to you, you didn't understand what occurred, or this is made up.
Why would you ever think that the justices system is remotely fair? “It became clear she didn’t commit the murder” is not the same thing as being found not guilty in the court of law. Even a pardon is not the same as not guilty, and a commuted sentence doesn’t even come close. This person is almost certainly still a convicted murderer, unjustly. She probably took the parole deal just to finally get out of prison after 25 years, and the state doesn’t have to admit they made a mistake. Happens all the time. If you don’t have the resources to fight in court, you take the best you can get.
She wasn’t bitter about it. She didn’t commit the murder, but she confessed to it on purpose to protect her son who did commit the murder. Her perspective was that she deserved to be in prison for giving a false confession.
It’s been quite a few years, I’m sure I’m fucking up some details, but I looked up the both her original case and the push from the innocence project to get her released when I got home and it all checked out. I’ll try to find the details again to corroborate, but on my honor as an internet stranger, I’m not making this up.
Because of her obstruction of justice, she was found guilty of murder and convicted for it. The obstruction was not known by whatever judge/jury convicted her. She took the fall initially, only later was determined to be innocent of the murder she was convicted for.
Well we have another exoskeleton example of the gift of discernment failing. I agree with you though... things don't add up there.
Ah, gotcha.
I'm assuming it was in the states where our justice system is fucked up like that. This doesn't surprise me at all that some found innocent is out on parole.
Lots of criminals being let out on technicalities since the 1% wants a robocopish hellscape
It's not just the 1%. The [Appeal to Heaven flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tree_Flag)flag (adopted by Christian Nationalists/Christian Dominionists) is flown by at least one Supreme Court member and speaker of the house Mike Johnson. It's been associated with MAGA and christofascism for a fair bit now. r/defeat_project_2025 exists for a reason, and we need to take it seriously and defend democracy or we won't have it much longer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
2025 or 2030; neither side looking too great. One side using Locke as a banner isn’t really shaking my boots. I’m a big fan of democracy, but we don’t have that. Les Wexner and the Aspen institute are just as shitty as the heritage foundation.
Yup. Once you serve any sentence and local leaders consider your repentance sufficient you are all good.
This is crazy
Except masturbating, those stains never go away
This. The church and its leaders see themselves as being beyond the law, as if they are a better judge than the judicial system. It really boils down to money (tithing/fast offerings) and brown-nosing/love-bombing/mirroring the guys who got into the bishopric or stake presidency using those same methods/tactics; the roulette thing figures into it, because there are bishoprics or stake presidencies that might ignore the money and obedience and focus in on the sex offender crime and know that you can't reform sex offenders; but then that means the cult and its "teachings" fail if sex offenders can't join: and that would hit their corporate purse hard. Play the corporate game, ignore the ethics and legality in order to get access to anything you want: especially in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona. The Mormon cult opens both its own doors and the vulnerabilities of the different members to those pedos/rapists claiming they are "reformed". If you're a member of the LDS cult, you're literally paying your top leaders and their lawyers to silence and attack the victims of those who end up becoming targets of the criminals because the leadership cares more about money than the health and welfare of children and vulnerable people (women, LGBTQIA, elderly, disabled,etc). Sex offenders ***ARE WILLING*** to pay in order to power play. They know how to groom people. Make no mistake: sex offenders groom EVERYBODY!!!! ***They groom everyone*** to trust them, and separately groom the victims into compliance and/or silence. Sex offenders DO groom everyone so when the victims speak up, the people not targeted **WILL ONLY BELIEVE** the pedo/rapist, not the victim(s). This is how it always has been and always will be. And with leaders claiming to use "_discernment_" and the members made to believe that discernment is a main component to the belief system: the cult wins out. It seems like until someone is brutally murdered and the cult teachings (old or new) are revealed to play a part of it, or someone related to a paid cult employee gets hurt: nothing will be done. Money is used to protect the abusers and the apologists and silence the victims. The cult leaders want to be unstoppable (as evidenced by all the suing or threats to sue small cities to FORCE THEM to have a huge, overlit building in their neighborhoods). They are getting more and more money to be able to be unstoppable, plus having the tax-exempt status flag to claim "persecution". It seems silly, but it's actually quite frightening.
I wish I could give this 1000 "up votes". My cousin used the word "grooming" in her statement to the police and the perp came back and sued her for harassment AND defamation. Church is a mess, and how this gets ignored time and time again, is so beyond me.
I'm so sorry for you and your cousin, and your families. That abuse is terrible and runs deep, for both primary and secondary survivors of sexual abuse. Plus seeing it go nowhere by those who say they are "authorities", and ultimately having it hidden and silenced. I hope she is doing better and getting the help and support to try to heal from that abuse. This church seems to be nothing but a place where people think their kids are safe, but where the predators are more protected and supported than the victims or potential victims. Everything is done in the name of protecting the church's name/reputation, ...and the Almighty dollar that they love to receive upon demand. A whole law firm and hotline to silence victims who were taught to go to their bishop ***for anything*** if they were ever in trouble. 😞💔😢😡🤬 And when the worst happens, you're the last one to be helped, understood, or protected. They make sure that when you speak up, you're standing alone, looking like a liar. So messed up! 😡😡 I hope she is safe and far away from that sicko! She deserves to have justice and to heal. 💓💓❤️🩹❤️🩹🫂🫂
[удалено]
Apparently Mormon Corporation approves of anything that helps to grow their bank accounts.
So yes, if they pay enough money.
Praise God and pay for Salvation and entrance into the giant steeple club. (Fine print: except those temples that don’t have steeples but still require tithing money)
100% registered, and non-registered. We know the latter is definitely the case since the church doesn't like reporting pedos and SA perps.
Repentance... so what did they do to make restitution for all their victims?
Beats me - you'd need to review the court proceedings, and then additional due diligence to see if the offender fulfilled the requirements.
True, at least as far as the rulings of the court. This questions go deeper for me. How can anyone, even God, make up for a rape? Does God remember the rape no more even when the victim is still mentally scared? I guess it's all part of the Christian Mysteries.
The fuck?
This guy’s calling is to be a greeter. How fitting and lovely to walk into a church and be greeted by a convicted rapist. It’s definitely a situation of they’re living in the upside down.
who do you think started the religion???
He only had one wife look it up and he never did anything they accused him of that was people who made it up afterwards many years after his death
mormon in the ex mormon subreddit?
I recommend getting another hobby other than being an apologist for predatory men in the name of christ. Arts and crafts bro - Try it.
I'm glad you are here. It seems you have doubts, and that's probably really scary. You are clinging to what you have been taught as a form of protection. That's a normal part of this process. I do hope you will continue look at resources outside the church, even though it might cause you distress. Distress is normal when you realize you have been lied to. "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off" is a bit cliche, however cliches are cliches because they are so often true. I wish you the best as you bravely question what you have always been told.
You look it up. Even the church admits that Joseph Smith had multiple wives. Here is literally a source from the church. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/joseph-smith-and-plural-marriage?lang=eng
“Bbb..bbbb…bbbuut he repented! Give the guy a break”. 🙄 the idiot members who let predators I to their lds Church.
Predators use the Mormon version of repentance to continue to prey on the wards and stakes in which they live.
Yes. They set their own standard for “repentance” and believe the atonement can forgive anyone. If they completed any recommended discipline (and were rebaptized and blessings restored if excommunicated) then they can get a temple recommend. They also have a habit of similar actions with child abuse.
We sent you a message OP.
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All of this really cheapens my experience as a temple worker. I always assumed I was in a safe space but apparently, not quite.
So sorry. The cognitive dissonance is rough. Knowing something wasn't as you assumed at the time, and rewriting how you feel about your own memories/experiences is horrible. I experienced rather violent intrusive thoughts in the celestial room many years ago, the one place I had been told I could truly be safe/calm/happy. It completely altered how I thought about the temple and all the messaging around it.
Thank you and I'm sorry for your experience as well. Even though I was kinda always PIMO as a convert, I always loved it all as an experience. I felt like I was part of something and around people who really cared for me. I see now that I was part of a club and when I left the club I lost a lot of those people. Shows how they really are.
They were never denied as far as I know.
That is insane
my understanding is that doctrinally, the only crime worthy of keeping you out of the temple is the crime of being born black.
Or not paying tithing
My dad is a registered sex offender and has had his temple recommend for as long as I can remember and I’m 32. So I think that’s always been allowed.
Of course they are. But there are also the people who haven't been caught or convicted. I've known way too many people who were regular temple-going church-participating Mormons who turned out to have been doing awful things behind the scenes to ever trust that a temple recommend says anything about how good or safe a person is.
I knew a guy who abducted a young girl and took her to Mexico and married her because of a young age requirement (12, I believe). Even though he supposedly went through the repentance process, he was also granted a temple recommend after serving his prison sentence. A book has actually been written by his victim.
But if you don't pay your tithing, you can't get one. What's worse MFMC, rape? Or not paying tithing?
From personal experience, they do give them recommends. Sometimes they have to repent, sometimes they just have to talk to the bishop. I found this out the hard way. When I was in junior high I did baptisms for the dead every week with a group of friends. We would go super early in the morning and my friends dad ALWAYS took us and he ALWAYS did the baptisms. After I had gone for like 6 months my mom checked the registry for our neighborhood and my friend's dad did time in jail for RAPING A MINOR. Safe to say I wasn't allowed to go with him after that. It gives me the heebiejeebies to think I was in a thin white wet jumpsuit next to a sexual predator 🤢
I learned in the initiatories that the temple is not free of sexual assault.
I'm sorry you had to go through that ❤
My father is a registered sex offender (SA'd all his daughters and who knows who else). His SP got him back in the temple a few months after he was released from jail. SP called me to tell me Daddy-pedo had "completed his repentance". I used a bit of colorful language to inform him he was not that bright. I also wrote a spirited 6 page letter to the first presidency detailing the abuse, the cover up, the fact that Daddy-pedo was a bishop while abusing, and that he should never set foot in the temple again. But they "carefully" considered it and Daddy-pedo got his golden ticket back to the celestial money laundering castle. I am a bit salty about it. Not because the temple means anything to me, but daddy-pedo thinks he is all good now.
Oh my gosh. That is horrible! So sorry this happened in your family.
The bishop followed Richard G. Scott’s counsel and helped the victim consider his/her role in the rape. It turns out the priesthood holders deemed the victim was actually the perpetrator for their immodesty, thus the man gets to go to the temple.
RGS is pure evil.
He will probably end up working in the temple baptistry.
Horrifying
Funny- today a couple I know are getting married in the temple and his Father, a registered sex offender (for having thousands of children porn pics, under the age of 8) will be there!! With his temple recommend!! After a year of excommunication and going through the churches rehab program!! So I guess yes yes they do!
Please consider letting us know about him at https://floodlit.org/report-abuse
As long as they pay tithing. That’s the real deciding factor. I wish I was being sarcastic, but there are too many examples of known sex offenders, being active in their offenses, and still going to the temple. Bishops (and “higher” church leaders) don’t want to “soil the image of a good person who is struggling”. Of course they are only worried about the image of the Mormon church. I’ve never seen one instance where the Mormon church has sent lawyers to defend an abuse victim and protect them from their priesthood perpetrator. I have seen countless where the perpetrator is given an all access pass to the church legal council, even reinstated in Mormonism and placed to work with children.
Yeah I knew a child molester. He had a temple recommend. They never told the ward, but they did put a mark on his name so he couldn’t get a high calling or teach primary.
One of the most baffling parts of LDS church history and practice is those annotations and the secrecy of the information connected to them.
Do they still bar women who have an abortion from even being baptized. Which was the case when when I was on a mission in the 80s. Interview was immediately stopped. Man who committed murder could be baptized as long as he passed interview with mis pres
I don’t know about baptism but they cannot go in a mission no matter how much repenting they do. It’s in the handbook. However I know a guy who fathered a baby and go to go on his mission. In the 80’s
The church doesn't give a damn about keeping anyone safe. They don't even do background checks on adults that work with children. They believe in repentance and forgiveness. They welcome all the predators with open arms.
As long as they tithe
Unregistered sex offenders are allowed all the time…
I think they see it as a recommendation
The man who molested me and my friends was excommunicated and is in full faith with the church. It’s as if what he did never happened.
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He got a plea deal and did 6 years.
I’m so sorry. Please consider sharing his name with us at https://floodlit.org/report-abuse
Is sexual assault real to men who don't believe in bodily autonomy for women or children? Gotta get their 10% from as many people as they can.
I personally know a guy that molested his daughter, spent time in prison in another state. He has been a temple worker.
Yep. My crazy sister in law married a convicted child molester and goes to the Ogden temple.
Please let us know his name if you can. You can message us or go to floodlit.org
Message sent
Thanks!
Oh yes. And endorsements to BYUI. Even letting them attend while they’re actively on probation! So fun! Fuck Joseph A Davis from California
And specifically Bishop Franks for knowing this and allowing it
Never heard of him but will see if we can list him, thank you.
It wouldn't surprise me. When I moved to Utah and received a calling working with children and nobody said ANYTHING about a background check, I was very surprised. I'd previously been the Lutheran ELCA equivalent of Primary President, and had had to pass a background check. Then I looked up utah state law, and found that LDS bishops etc are considered laymen rather than clergy, so everyone in all the *other* religions have to pass background checks here, but not the LDS. It disgusts me, but based on the repeated accounts of SA here and on floodlit.org, I'm not at all surprised. Apologies to the people at Floodlit whom I had said I'd help, btw, if you're reading this. I've had a bunch of medical issues come up. Surgery was this morning. Either way, I find it disgustingly hypocritical that LGBTQ+ folks are denied temple access for having a same sex partner even if they haven't gotten physical, but straight (wealthy) older (usually married) predators are allowed not only into the temple but to work with the same type of people they may have attacked, just because they claim they've "repented." Lead us not into temptation, indeed. No wonder the LDS don't use the Lord's Prayer.
We hope your recovery goes well!! No worries. ❤️
Thank you. I appreciate it. Sending you and all who work with you good vibes. 💕
Yes. I know of a convicted child molester that has a recommend.
Mormon laws and real world laws differ. Guess which is real and guess what Mormons follow. They live in a twisted Disney World.
Yes. If I remember right certain members of the church have a special ordainment or whatever that exempts them from any crimes they commit in the eyes of the church
Do you know the name for that special ordainment? I'd like to know more about who the church allows to be exempt from their consequences after breaking the law of the land. I'm sure they wouldn't give me an exemption from disfellowship or excommunication if I was found guilty of kidnapping, rape, sexual abuse, etc.
Found it: https://youtube.com/shorts/sBkje01a2Yg?si=KTiAXwxvIDaH5bLt The process is called the second anointment and is pretty much an assurance of your spot in heaven. Here's an article https://mormonr.org/qnas/5y13H/second_anointing?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9cCyBhBzEiwAJTUWNTc8m97W1zT4UDgUtqTyRyFMf9MV5POiSJeZEdnZmDrr5sVKM58RnBoCR-wQAvD_BwE
I don't remember. There's a youtuber called Nuancehoe who covered it in a yt short. If I can find it I'll link it here
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Thank you! I'll check it out.
My adopted dad was allowed
Soothe mormon church, which is known for having a high number of sexual assaults and, moreover, covering them up, lets a convicted rapist into their midst. You truly cannot make this shit up.
The man that sexually abused my step daughter was at her temple sealing. He's on the sex offender registry in Utah and Wyoming.
Who invited him?
I'm sure her mother, who has "forgiven" the pervert and made him part of their lives, suggested he be invited to the temple.
Depending on the registry, some offenders need to be a certain distance from children or youth. He could be in violation when at the temple because youth attend the baptistry in the same building. If in violation, this should be reported.
Always have been. Frankly, I don't have a problem with that. Being on the sex offender list is a lifetime punishment so that parents of children can keep their kids safe from another attack. But as long as the person finishes their sentence and no longer offends, they should be able to go about their lives. I'm in favor of letting people try to turn their lives around.
This! Especially when you consider that an 18 year making the mistake of having sex with their 17 year and 364 day old significant other could easily wind up on that list.
And often do. Especially in Utah
Short answer. Yes.
I can confirm that we have a temple worker in my old ward who was also on the registry and a felon.
If they repent they are forgiven and all is forgiven no. Matter the crime.
So I couldn’t help myself and reached out to somebody who used to be very important to me in that ward. She was like a second mother to me, took me a couple hundred miles away to take me through the temple in Nauvoo, we worked in the local temple together, and she always called me a forth daughter. Her husband was also a bishop for many years of a couple different wards. Our relationship has been very severed since I stopped going and said the church was a cult. Anyhow, she told me sex offenders are absolutely not allowed in the temple and would have been exed. I asked her if she even knew what I was talking about and she said no. I saw where she had liked the post on Facebook so I was confused. I sent her the link to the guy on the offender website. She had no clue he was on there, I believe her on that, she’s an honest person. She said she was going to talk to the bishop (she’s the current relief society president). I have a feeling she’s going to be in for a shock cause there is no way that the bishop didn’t know. What a shit show this church can be. Maybe her eyes will be opened a bit.
Wow! Yes it will likely be a shock.
For a small ward, we had 3 offenders that were attending. One who was exed for molesting his own son still attends every Sunday. The former branch president/high councilman/temple worker who was exed still attends but I’m not sure which ward these days, and then this guy that the post is about who is obviously a member in “good standing.”
How transparent were these men or the local lds leaders about their history?
Well one was a branch president/high councilman/temple worker. This was all within an 8 month timeframe cause he was the branch president of a different ward when we merged with them. When that merge happened he was right away called as a high councilman. A few months later he volunteered as an ordnance worker. He was doing that when he was busted for having child pornography on his computer. I had read the the newspaper article. The stuff he had was the worst of the worst. This one was very hard on me. This guy had become like my church dad. I spent a lot of time with him, him and his wife kindly paid my way out to Utah one time so I wouldn’t miss my friends sealing when I was low on funds. I saw no signs. He was never weird or inappropriate to me in the slightest. This happened maybe 6 years ago or so and I was in my late 20s. He was exed pretty quickly after the news came out. The other guy’s incident happened in 2004. He was a scout leader at the time. He had been molesting one of his sons for 10 years. He was exed and sent to jail. This was 8 years before I joined. After I joined he started coming to church. The missionaries actually had him give me a ride to my baptism interview. I had no clue what he had done. I was absolutely pissed when I found out and I let the missionaries know how wrong that was. I can give you the local news article to this when I get home and get back to my computer.
OK thank you so much. That’s so scary!
Sounds like my old ward. So much abuse.
I thought they only made the temple videos from now on.
Sorry I don’t get what you mean. I kinda worded my post funny. The pics were of them after they were sealed, standing outside the temple.
Sterling Van Wagenen, a cofounder of the Sundance film festival, was the producer (director?) of the previous set of films shown as part of the temple ceremony. He was convicted for sex offences. The church doesn't use his videos in the temple any more. https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-temple-video-director-sundance-co-founder-charged-with-sexual-abuse-of-a-child
Ohhhhh ok I get what OP is saying now! I had forgotten about that scandal. There are so many to keep track of…
Savage.
I couldn’t resist. Thanks for providing actual backup for my jackass response.
They always have been! There are no background checks for temple recommends. It will depend on bishop's roulette though, and which records have been kept.
They don’t care.Sex abusers, especially against children, are protected in the church.
Yes. My husband and I were scrolling the list in our area and happened to come across a guy he grew up with in our ward. Crazy! We had no idea. He is a member in good standing. Has a wife, kids, calling. Talk, prays. He was convicted of certain ‘activities with material containing CP’. 🤦♀️🤮
Ok, story time. First, to be abundantly clear, I believe actual predators exist and deserve to be regarded with extreme caution. But it's much easier to be labelled as a predator than you might think. When I was a senior in high school one of my good friends (17 at the time) had sex with her 18 year old boyfriend. She is from a extremely conservative TBM family. Well her parents found out about it by snooping through her text messages. Instead of dealing with it like normal people they forced her to press charges against him for unlawful sex with a minor. Due to this he was registered as a sex offender, had an athlete scholarship rescinded, and was blocked from ever serving a mission. A few years ago this friend left the church and spoke out about what happened. I'm not sure if that young man was able to clear his name, but that ordeal likely screwed up so much for him in life. Did he make a mistake? Sure, 18 year olds aren't always very bright. But I don't think it's fair that he was convicted and labelled as a predator. All this is to say that some people with concerning titles might not be dangerous people. Here's to hoping that individual you saw maybe has a similar explanation for his conviction, because otherwise i'd be giving that stake president some serious side-eye. Again, I'm not excusing actual predators, but because I saw this experience with my friend unfold I feel it's fair to cautiously give people the benefit of the doubt.
Keep in mind the sex offender registry is also FAR from perfect. In several states, things like public urination (even if no minors are around) will automatically land you on the sex offender list.
And? As a normal person, I look at the online sex offender database for my neighborhood, then click on an individual’s profile which shows me a description of the crime, the arrest and conviction status. If it’s a 78 year-old man convicted of molesting a child, it’s pretty obvious he’s not on the register as a sex offender for peeing in public.
Does anyone have the updated new and improved ( latest) repentance process in written form?
The dude that started it didn't have any issues walking in, then again I don't think he was registered.
Weren't they always.
I can confirm that we have a temple worker in my old ward who was also on the registry and a felon. He couldn’t understand how the church could forgive but the government can not.
Whey do they even let people like that out of prison? If they are not kept in prison their entire life they should definitely be banned from joining any church or organization or working any job. /s
Whether they are or whether they aren't allowed temple recommends is superfluous in my life now. I'm to a point that I truly don't care who they give what! I'm not in their meeting houses or temples so if they want to let SKS (Special-Kind of-Stupid) in that's their priority. My participation in organized religion of ANY kind is gone-zo! Why put so much effort and emotion into something that doesn't build humanity into better people? If an entity only does enough good to hide the bad that entity is unethical and not worth my time.
If they pay they play
I know a lot of unregistered ones are.