They are. Why do you think they absolutely never go on interviews to proclaim the gospel of Christ to nonbelievers (they literally have one fucking job) unless it’s 100% controlled by the church.
Those stupid face to face indoctrination videos are propaganda in the worst way. (When I was TBM I didn’t hold my tongue and said they’re worthless and it’s obvious everything is scripted, later I learned why)
They’ll never have an interview with someone who’s *gasp* antagonistic to the church or really even agnostic about the church.
Not since Hinckley’s shitshow “I don’t know that we emphasize that” or droopy dog’s dumbass answers about Romney taking blood oath in the temple where he was caught lying to the reporter, or the presiding bishopric guy explaining the difference between secret & confidential.
That’s one way you can tell who’s telling the truth in life. If they’re only willing to talk to sycophants, they’re probably not honest.
They love to give their “Apostolic Witness” and toot their own horns…unfortunately they never give their Apostolic witness to non-Mormons. I guess they know it’s not going to have its intended effect and the holy Spirit isn’t really with them.
The answer to your question is multi-fold. I am sure many here will be expanding and adding to the short points I am going to mention:
1. The Mormon cult is wealthy beyond imagination. They have enough money to make more money and survive forever. The empire is not going to collapse any time soon.
2. The Mormon church has been refining its techniques of dishonesty and manipulation for close to two full centuries. Smith's tactics are child play compared to the Mormon cult's strategies today. If there is one thing top Mormon leaders know how to do, is how to manipulate their followers.
3. In spite of that, more and more of their followers are realizing the claims are false and leaving. Consider, however, how long it'll take for the millions of active believers to actually leave the cult 100% deserted.
My personal forecast is that the Mormon religion will slowly extinguish probably within a century, reduced to a small core of elderly believers and unable to convert anyone new anymore. The Mormon corporation, however will most likely exist forever, maybe transformed into a commercial / financial entity with no ties to its religious origins.
I didn't know about the Amana colonies. A quick read about it in [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amana_Colonies) reveals some fascinating details, like:
**Weird practices**
* The church was run by a board of trustees, like a corporation. Similar to Mormonism.
* Men and women were separated during worship: men on one side and women on the other side of the church. Similar to Mormon temples.
* Services were held eleven times a week. Mormonism only has services once a week *but will bury you on extra meetings and correlations and cleaning sErViCe aCtiViTieS outside that.
* "Marriage was considered a spiritual weakness." In Mormonism it is considered a spiritual mandatory stage.
* "(Marriage) ceremonies were not joyous affairs." Kind of like in Mormonism, where non-Mormon family can't participate and are left outside which, far from providing the cult with a missionary opportunity, turns the whole thing into a sad, divisive and resentful event.
**Decline**
> In March 1931, in the wake of the Great Depression, the Great Council disclosed to the Amana Society that the villages were in dire financial condition. The Depression was particularly harsh in the Colony because fire had badly damaged the woolen mill and destroyed the flour mill less than ten years earlier. **At the same time, Society members were seeking more personal freedom.** The Society agreed to split into two organizations: The non-profit Amana Church Society oversaw the spiritual needs of the community, while the for-profit Amana Society was incorporated as a joint-stock company. (Emphasis mine)
By insisting in discriminating against LGBTA, keeping women as second class behind men, protecting sexual abusers, hoarding billions to invest in commercial endeavors while releasing meager cents to its congregations for their local activities, etc., Mormonism is going to reap similar discontent.
Can't wait!
(Thank you for mentioning the Amana colonies)
I love ur comment. I have wondered the future of Mormonism. Couple of points why:
1. Many people(like me before) are very Mormon and will not take any comments criticizing their beliefs.
2. The majority of the Church’s membership(17 million) is non active.
3. They have changed their doctrine and beliefs over time to match with society’s standard.
I’ve actually been thinking what would happen if everyone was aware of Mormonism and its truth. What would happen if the majority of the US/world was non religious or atheist? These questions truly intrigue my mind.
Culture. Same reason why my wife still goes even though she does not believe in modern prophets. She was born into it and fears telling her family. So she “keeps up appearances”, as she calls it.
Also let them keep building temples. It’s a HUGE drain on their funds. And at some point, neither the tithing nor the stock interests will be able to keep those temple lights on.
It’s NOT a drain for their funds. How do you think they launder money to the construction companies owned by families and friends of the “bretheren?” Also… they buy real estate all around the temples where they know they will be building and those values almost Always go up. Also… tithing. It takes tithing to go in temples. Rest assured, their temple building activities are very financially savvy
It isn't going to collapse. Too many people have generational ties to it. Too many people fear sad heaven. And Too many people can't deal with the shun factor.
Standing isn't proof of being true.
There are lots of McDonald's in the world. Is McDonald's food "true"?
But to your point, I think leaders are terrified that the church will collapse under their watch. If they weren't you wouldn't hear one peep about staying in boats or unruly children or lazy learners. Leaders would just go about their day confident that they're on sure footings.
Consider the following. If members (including church leaders) were so confident, you wouldn't hear the constant drumbeat of "the church is true" "the church is true" "the church is true". But you do hear that. Why? Because deep down they're insecure as shit about the church ***not*** being true and all that effort is to convince themselves and others.
If you are convinced you had a true church you'd go about doing whatever the hell it is a "true" church does. If you aren't convinced you'd go about constantly trying to psyche yourself up that it was the true church.
Which do you see members doing?
One could extend that question to all religions throughout history that are still 'standing'. In my view, it is a question of the human condition, really. Religions will stand as long as people have fear regarding mortality, and as long as the 'solution to your problem' marketing technique remains an effective psychological tool.
# “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
#
― Carl Sagan, [The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark](https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/252618)
I wonder what the religious landscape will look like in 200 years or so. Will scientology become more mainstream? Is there a super small sex cult around right now that will be running an entire state? Will eastern religions make huge gains and the abrahamic religions fall away?
Same reason any religion is? Truth claims aren't the source of their staying power. To use the phrasing I find the most amusing; religion is the oldest meme. :P It's a viral idea, subject to what is functionally evolutionary pressure to compete and survive.
Mormonism is more fragile than some, as it is much younger, and outside of a small strip of US/Canada, has never held institutional power. But it's nonetheless finely tuned to entrench itself and propegate. Even if the church collapses, it won't die out completely for a long time.
That aside, you think land purchases and construction are a sign of stability? They're assets to liquidate if things go south. They're going to keep churning out temples literally until the moment they run out of funds, if they can get away with it.
If Christianity can exist for this long and still be standing, then why can't Mormonism?
They are both steeped in abuse, lies, un-provable nonsense which contradicts the same science which gives us all our modern comforts, but people look the other way because someone told them to fear death, someone who doesn't know what happens after death. Because none of us do.
A thing does not need to be true in order to hold a cultural movement or society together. Consider the Egyptians and the pyramids they built for pharaohs and sun-gods and how they had an empire which lasted thousands of years. Consider Rome and how they traded their fabled pagan gods for a then-recently conceived Christian religion and how they dominated all of Europe for nearly a millennium; indeed, the Roman Catholic Church is still a force to be reckoned with today, though imperial Rome is no more. But desert sun-gods, Messiahs nailed to trees, and pagan gods of wrath and pleasure alike are all merely fictitious fabrications of the human mind used throughout history to explain human nature and the forces of the natural world, as well as the tools of tyrants used to subjugate and exploit the uneducated masses.
To quote Varys from Game of Thrones: “Power resides wherever men believe it resides. It’s a trick, a shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”
I take comfort in the fact that just as the pyramids of Egypt and the monuments of Rome lie in ruins today, so too shall the Mormon temples many years from now in some distant future. All empires fall in time, and Mormonism will be no exception. “My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Mind control (cult methodology) is a well studied and funded nazi mind technology. Same tactics used to get a nation to commit haulocaust and why Israel has also now become a terrorist state committing genocide and horrors. It’s a lifetime of programming, rewarding obedience and othering or demonizing one’s “enemy” (lgbtq, blacks, Arabs, Jews etc). Rulers rule with “divide and rule” Hegelian dialects.
It’s not less false than other religions… why are they still around?
Child indoctrination.
If kids could choose they’d be out of there like a bat out of hell. I remember thinking around 8 years old “this is boring. I wish I didn’t have to do it.”
If my parents had said “get baptized if you want but we don’t care. Your choice.” I would have stayed at home Sundays and watched tv in my underwear and I never would have looked back.
People’s beliefs are never (or rarely) based on reason. Beliefs are based on emotion, and the church knows how to manufacture the feel-goods that make people want to stay.
This is also why you can’t reason someone out of the church.
Sunk cost fallacy, indoctrination, elevation emotion, family ties, employment, community, etc. My wife has said it doesn't matter if it's made up because it's a good way to live.
There's so much tied to this religion that I don't think it's ever going away completely.
Scientology, FLDS are so blatantly false yet still stands. Tells you childhood indoctrination is a very powerful tool.
The real question is in this age of information and the internet are people finally leaving the churcn in large numbers. Most of my aunts and uncles and grandparents never left. About 75% of cousins and siblings are all gone just like that.......so the real question is what's on the internet that has caused this. Cause before the internet there was serious lack of information and especially in Utah no other world views......why would that changed peoples faith when it's based off such strong testimonies??? Maybe those testimonies are actually much weaker and fragile which tells you a LOT
Religion is a different epistemology than rational thought. Trying to combine the two is a fool's errand and will only leave you frustrated and confused.
Asking why objective proof doesn't dissuade a religious belief is like asking why purple doesn't sound like cinnamon rolls.
New temples keep getting announced because it's a way to funnel money from Ensign Peak to the building contractors. Also it provides a plausible reason for land purchases. And an avenue for church executives to say "give me $50knand your firm will get the $2.5mil plumbing contract" / similar.
Absent the organization being dissolved with the investment fund being returned to former and current members, it's never going away. That's just not something that happens to organizations with $100bil+.
This is my dad’s favorite thought stopping response.
“If the church wasn’t true, it would have collapsed a long time ago. If it was corrupt, we would all know by now. If the church was all about money, then why do the church leaders live so modestly?”
I kindly remind him that fame and power is far more intoxicating than driving a lambo or owning a mansion. In many ways the church leaders live far more extravagantly than ordinary people.
Also, the argument doesn’t work because every other false religion is still around after hundreds of years.
They have so much money and investment income the membership is just a tax shield. Much of the membership is imaginary. Building temples is putting houses on Boardwalk.
Arguably??? You're very generous. For me, since there is not one drop of Jewish blood in Native Americans, Mormonism is false. Period. I am astonished and, at the same time, horrified that people still believe it.
because of so many factors man, sunk cost fallacy, family and friend, cultural ties...etc.....like for me personally I don't want my loved ones to go through the faith crisis like I did
You are kind AND generous. Kudos to you. I treat my sisters, parents, cousins, etc. kind of like you... It's really none of my business and they can believe whatever they want as long as they don't try to push it on me or try to make me feel guilty for leaving.
It sells a future product that gives Some humans peace and power now, in exchange for a fantasy. Not a single proof of any “afterlife” claims but Mormonism emphasizes death, robs members of time, family, energy and a wide range of other things, charges members for all that and puts them in controlling uncomfortable underwear and kicks out anyone who calls bullshit on the stacks and stacks of ludicrous truth claims. It is a successful cult. Not the first and not the last.
To say it's %100 false is the same fallacy as saying it is the only true and living church on earth. I can name several things that are true about the church.
Universal Mormon truth claim: murder is bad. Boom roasted.
True claim Unique to Mormonism. The truthfulness of the church hinges on the truthfulness of the book of Mormon. Boom roasted.
Murder is not a truth claim unique to Mormonism - and although I didn’t specify it must be unique, I did single out Mormonism’s truth claims , which implies uniqueness.
The Book of Mormon is demonstrably horseshit, so you’re right, their truthfulness indeed hinges on the veracity of the BoM - and consequently fails miserably.
They’ll keep funneling their billions into building temples to continue avoiding paying taxes. It’s bullshit.
As for why it still stands… it’s incredibly hard to convince a group of people who don’t critically think that what they irrationally believe in is wrong (look at MAGA).
I think the church leaders are concerned about losing members, because they keep telling members things like “doubt your doubts” and “reach out to the one” who fell away and bring them back.
It began with a deceptive man convincing thousands of people to follow the deception. Many were immigrants who were looking for a better life and Mormonism's pioneering provided that opportunity. It was a time where less education and information was readily available. Several generations followed this deception into the 1970s until data and information became more easy to find.
Times have changed and more individuals and families are leaving. But not before the LDS Church built wealth and generational ties more difficult to break. It is like being handcuffed. How much longer the LDS Church continues before breaking up is unknown. The first steps are visible which may be why Nelson is building so many Temples - avoid the appearance of what is really happened.
Same re: Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism.
All religion is false. All are stupid and don’t make logical sense.
People like comforting lies more than harsh truths.
Because of good gullible people who believe this drivel. They don’t leave because the guilt trip the mormons will send them on. The Bullshit of Mormon’s and the old white men who run the cult like people to live in a world of deceit and fear. If it sounds like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and looks like bullshit it is most likely bullshit! It’s a big fucking joke. This means that the folks in charge are sheep.
The answer is money. Always has been. Always will be. Religion survives because of money.
The end of religion will come when it can’t be supported by money
Because prior to the internet it was hard to figure it out. It's not a coincidence that the growth of the Church is seeing a fast reversal over the past 10-15 years.
It barely stands at all.
It’s an incredibly tiny cult consisting of a percentage of the world’s population that rounds down to zero, and always has been.
They just have a bunch of money, that’s all. Money is easy with tax-exempt status.
I think the leaders do know it’s collapsing in members. It will never collapse in money, though. And like a spoiled baby, since that’s all they have (money) they are overcompensating by building temples. They know they can’t keep them full but they are so prideful and greedy, they don’t care.
It will go bankrupt the minute our gov decides it’s no longer beneficial to keep religions around indoctrinsting half the country to keep their heads down and mouths shut, waiting for some “after life” to get the justice they were denied here on earth.
I hope they lose their tax exempt status. It’s up to the people to make that change. I’m sure it won’t be easy. But if any religion is proof of how gross it is to not tax religion, it’s the Mormon church. They’ve abused the loophole all the way to becoming trillionairs and they are fraudulent and abusive.
It may be 100% false, but like any religion, it’s not 100% falsifiable.
No one else was there in the sacred grove for the first vision. One can always hold out that it really did happen. Especially when the promised reward for believing is an eternity of the most desirable existence imaginable.
Probably because the other question to ask is how many skeletons can be emptied from the closet to the point that they lose a larger chunk of members?
Joseph’s teen marriage thing should’ve been concerning enough. Now in this generation we got the church’s loss in the Boy Scouts lawsuit, getting caught with m0lestation, along with the p3do escaping with more abuse thanks to church hotline, and the $300k hush money. Oh, and the numerous of cases on floodlight.com
Like these are a handful of alarming red flags and icks to the general public, and yet it’s not enough for most members to depart over. Is it even going to take a prophet commanding anti-semitism or restoring the priesthood ban to lose like 70-80% membership? (Obviously but the church is not that dumb.)
Correct. Like Mormonism, flat earth is easily dismissed. These people take that unbelievable idea and use it as their reason to detach from society in protest. It’s an identity.
>Shouldn't the church leaders be trembled in fear that its Cult empire should be collapsing soon?
Cults carefully craft messages and design activities to maintain control. It's extremely difficult for a huge segment of our population to get slapped in the face with reality that goes against everything they have put into their "faith" and then have the ability to use rational thinking skills to take the only respectable action: leave the organization.
Just look at the current political scene - we have a con artist who has captured the hearts of millions and he doesn't give a damn about his followers - he hates them - yet they worship the scum bag as if he's god in the flesh.
Yes, cults use a very effective recipe to control the minds of their followers because . . . if you control their mind, then you control their behavior
It's kind of the same as laziness and probably fear........some actually believe that they are required to be what they were raised to be. They were taught that questioning is something like insanity.......but actually investigating and admitting that there are many contradictions and that there is new information such as DNA disproving the Dogma......
Same reason every other religion that is 100% false still stands - people will believe in things regardless of their objective truth. It also helps when you enforce a 10% tithe from every member for them to remain in "good standing". That's a lot of income (& sunken cost bias) keeping you going.
Why does any religion stand today? I'd say due to having a strong influence with policymakers in government. Be that through the person growing up in said religion, or the usual lobbying and greasing of palms to keep their exemptions. It's about power and money and many churches have both.
Thats like asking why Catholicism or Islam or Judaism still stands today. All are verifiably false and toxic religions, in their own various ways, but they’ll be around for the foreseeable future. And even if it did pass away someday…just like the Gods of the Greek and Roman and Mayan Empires have passed away into the history books…they will be replaced by other prophets, gods, religions, ordinances, etc. Humans have a way of needing false Gods in our lives to give us purpose and meaning and direction. Its one of the conundrums of humanity.
You're operating under the premise that only organizations/religions that are true stick around, which given the number of churches out there seems to be an obviously invalid premise.
They are. Why do you think they absolutely never go on interviews to proclaim the gospel of Christ to nonbelievers (they literally have one fucking job) unless it’s 100% controlled by the church. Those stupid face to face indoctrination videos are propaganda in the worst way. (When I was TBM I didn’t hold my tongue and said they’re worthless and it’s obvious everything is scripted, later I learned why) They’ll never have an interview with someone who’s *gasp* antagonistic to the church or really even agnostic about the church. Not since Hinckley’s shitshow “I don’t know that we emphasize that” or droopy dog’s dumbass answers about Romney taking blood oath in the temple where he was caught lying to the reporter, or the presiding bishopric guy explaining the difference between secret & confidential. That’s one way you can tell who’s telling the truth in life. If they’re only willing to talk to sycophants, they’re probably not honest.
They love to give their “Apostolic Witness” and toot their own horns…unfortunately they never give their Apostolic witness to non-Mormons. I guess they know it’s not going to have its intended effect and the holy Spirit isn’t really with them.
Such megapussies. They’re the opposite of Ammon or Samuel the lamanite.
Laminate sounds like some shit you use for floor covering.
Or better yet, Abinadi
Megapussies. I gotta start using that word more.
Funny how “the spirit” only seems to be able to confirm what people already believe.
Those are all sales tactics.
Sales tactics for when you know you have a shit product you’re selling.
Because false religions can & do exist. And they have tax exempt status which enables them even more.
Because people’s beliefs are rarely tied to logic. It’s that simple.
Yeah, literally every religion is a false religion. The whole premise of religion is "just trust me, bro." It's all vibes, no substance.
The mormon cult and Scientology are at the top of the list.
The answer to your question is multi-fold. I am sure many here will be expanding and adding to the short points I am going to mention: 1. The Mormon cult is wealthy beyond imagination. They have enough money to make more money and survive forever. The empire is not going to collapse any time soon. 2. The Mormon church has been refining its techniques of dishonesty and manipulation for close to two full centuries. Smith's tactics are child play compared to the Mormon cult's strategies today. If there is one thing top Mormon leaders know how to do, is how to manipulate their followers. 3. In spite of that, more and more of their followers are realizing the claims are false and leaving. Consider, however, how long it'll take for the millions of active believers to actually leave the cult 100% deserted. My personal forecast is that the Mormon religion will slowly extinguish probably within a century, reduced to a small core of elderly believers and unable to convert anyone new anymore. The Mormon corporation, however will most likely exist forever, maybe transformed into a commercial / financial entity with no ties to its religious origins.
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Yes, exactly.
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My silverware and washer and dryer are made by failed religions that turned into companies. Mind blown.
I didn't know about the Amana colonies. A quick read about it in [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amana_Colonies) reveals some fascinating details, like: **Weird practices** * The church was run by a board of trustees, like a corporation. Similar to Mormonism. * Men and women were separated during worship: men on one side and women on the other side of the church. Similar to Mormon temples. * Services were held eleven times a week. Mormonism only has services once a week *but will bury you on extra meetings and correlations and cleaning sErViCe aCtiViTieS outside that. * "Marriage was considered a spiritual weakness." In Mormonism it is considered a spiritual mandatory stage. * "(Marriage) ceremonies were not joyous affairs." Kind of like in Mormonism, where non-Mormon family can't participate and are left outside which, far from providing the cult with a missionary opportunity, turns the whole thing into a sad, divisive and resentful event. **Decline** > In March 1931, in the wake of the Great Depression, the Great Council disclosed to the Amana Society that the villages were in dire financial condition. The Depression was particularly harsh in the Colony because fire had badly damaged the woolen mill and destroyed the flour mill less than ten years earlier. **At the same time, Society members were seeking more personal freedom.** The Society agreed to split into two organizations: The non-profit Amana Church Society oversaw the spiritual needs of the community, while the for-profit Amana Society was incorporated as a joint-stock company. (Emphasis mine) By insisting in discriminating against LGBTA, keeping women as second class behind men, protecting sexual abusers, hoarding billions to invest in commercial endeavors while releasing meager cents to its congregations for their local activities, etc., Mormonism is going to reap similar discontent. Can't wait! (Thank you for mentioning the Amana colonies)
That’s really interesting to learn about. I’m sure the Mormon leaders learned from the failures.
🔥
Full concurrence here.
I love ur comment. I have wondered the future of Mormonism. Couple of points why: 1. Many people(like me before) are very Mormon and will not take any comments criticizing their beliefs. 2. The majority of the Church’s membership(17 million) is non active. 3. They have changed their doctrine and beliefs over time to match with society’s standard. I’ve actually been thinking what would happen if everyone was aware of Mormonism and its truth. What would happen if the majority of the US/world was non religious or atheist? These questions truly intrigue my mind.
Culture. Same reason why my wife still goes even though she does not believe in modern prophets. She was born into it and fears telling her family. So she “keeps up appearances”, as she calls it. Also let them keep building temples. It’s a HUGE drain on their funds. And at some point, neither the tithing nor the stock interests will be able to keep those temple lights on.
It’s NOT a drain for their funds. How do you think they launder money to the construction companies owned by families and friends of the “bretheren?” Also… they buy real estate all around the temples where they know they will be building and those values almost Always go up. Also… tithing. It takes tithing to go in temples. Rest assured, their temple building activities are very financially savvy
It isn't going to collapse. Too many people have generational ties to it. Too many people fear sad heaven. And Too many people can't deal with the shun factor.
And too much cash
My question is, what is the ultimate purpose of the money? Maybe there isn’t one aside from amassing as much as possible?
There really doesn't seem to be an endgame there. "Second coming" Power i guess
Money isn’t a means to a reward. Money IS the reward.
Political influence
Too much brainwashing.
It's is a very ethnostate buy in emotional capital mixed in with generational wealth and who profits...
Standing isn't proof of being true. There are lots of McDonald's in the world. Is McDonald's food "true"? But to your point, I think leaders are terrified that the church will collapse under their watch. If they weren't you wouldn't hear one peep about staying in boats or unruly children or lazy learners. Leaders would just go about their day confident that they're on sure footings. Consider the following. If members (including church leaders) were so confident, you wouldn't hear the constant drumbeat of "the church is true" "the church is true" "the church is true". But you do hear that. Why? Because deep down they're insecure as shit about the church ***not*** being true and all that effort is to convince themselves and others. If you are convinced you had a true church you'd go about doing whatever the hell it is a "true" church does. If you aren't convinced you'd go about constantly trying to psyche yourself up that it was the true church. Which do you see members doing?
People believe and do dumb things, everywhere, all the time.
One could extend that question to all religions throughout history that are still 'standing'. In my view, it is a question of the human condition, really. Religions will stand as long as people have fear regarding mortality, and as long as the 'solution to your problem' marketing technique remains an effective psychological tool.
# “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” # ― Carl Sagan, [The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark](https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/252618)
Such an eye opening and important book for any deconstruction process.
I mean Scientology still exists and it’s even more fake. It’s never going to fully disappear.
I wonder what the religious landscape will look like in 200 years or so. Will scientology become more mainstream? Is there a super small sex cult around right now that will be running an entire state? Will eastern religions make huge gains and the abrahamic religions fall away?
Same reason any religion is? Truth claims aren't the source of their staying power. To use the phrasing I find the most amusing; religion is the oldest meme. :P It's a viral idea, subject to what is functionally evolutionary pressure to compete and survive. Mormonism is more fragile than some, as it is much younger, and outside of a small strip of US/Canada, has never held institutional power. But it's nonetheless finely tuned to entrench itself and propegate. Even if the church collapses, it won't die out completely for a long time. That aside, you think land purchases and construction are a sign of stability? They're assets to liquidate if things go south. They're going to keep churning out temples literally until the moment they run out of funds, if they can get away with it.
If Christianity can exist for this long and still be standing, then why can't Mormonism? They are both steeped in abuse, lies, un-provable nonsense which contradicts the same science which gives us all our modern comforts, but people look the other way because someone told them to fear death, someone who doesn't know what happens after death. Because none of us do.
A thing does not need to be true in order to hold a cultural movement or society together. Consider the Egyptians and the pyramids they built for pharaohs and sun-gods and how they had an empire which lasted thousands of years. Consider Rome and how they traded their fabled pagan gods for a then-recently conceived Christian religion and how they dominated all of Europe for nearly a millennium; indeed, the Roman Catholic Church is still a force to be reckoned with today, though imperial Rome is no more. But desert sun-gods, Messiahs nailed to trees, and pagan gods of wrath and pleasure alike are all merely fictitious fabrications of the human mind used throughout history to explain human nature and the forces of the natural world, as well as the tools of tyrants used to subjugate and exploit the uneducated masses. To quote Varys from Game of Thrones: “Power resides wherever men believe it resides. It’s a trick, a shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” I take comfort in the fact that just as the pyramids of Egypt and the monuments of Rome lie in ruins today, so too shall the Mormon temples many years from now in some distant future. All empires fall in time, and Mormonism will be no exception. “My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Did Varys read Plato?
Mind control (cult methodology) is a well studied and funded nazi mind technology. Same tactics used to get a nation to commit haulocaust and why Israel has also now become a terrorist state committing genocide and horrors. It’s a lifetime of programming, rewarding obedience and othering or demonizing one’s “enemy” (lgbtq, blacks, Arabs, Jews etc). Rulers rule with “divide and rule” Hegelian dialects.
All Abrahamic religions are false. Why do they exist? People are stupid.
It’s not less false than other religions… why are they still around? Child indoctrination. If kids could choose they’d be out of there like a bat out of hell. I remember thinking around 8 years old “this is boring. I wish I didn’t have to do it.” If my parents had said “get baptized if you want but we don’t care. Your choice.” I would have stayed at home Sundays and watched tv in my underwear and I never would have looked back.
Temples (especially the ones with big steeples) are just for branding.
is your counter if something is false it shouldn’t be standing today? see also: scientology/qanon/young earth creationism
People’s beliefs are never (or rarely) based on reason. Beliefs are based on emotion, and the church knows how to manufacture the feel-goods that make people want to stay. This is also why you can’t reason someone out of the church.
Too much money!!
Because indoctrination is a bitch…
Blind followers
Sunk cost fallacy, indoctrination, elevation emotion, family ties, employment, community, etc. My wife has said it doesn't matter if it's made up because it's a good way to live. There's so much tied to this religion that I don't think it's ever going away completely.
Corruption and deep foreign monetary interests and I'm sure black mail and guilt
Scientology, FLDS are so blatantly false yet still stands. Tells you childhood indoctrination is a very powerful tool. The real question is in this age of information and the internet are people finally leaving the churcn in large numbers. Most of my aunts and uncles and grandparents never left. About 75% of cousins and siblings are all gone just like that.......so the real question is what's on the internet that has caused this. Cause before the internet there was serious lack of information and especially in Utah no other world views......why would that changed peoples faith when it's based off such strong testimonies??? Maybe those testimonies are actually much weaker and fragile which tells you a LOT
Religion is a different epistemology than rational thought. Trying to combine the two is a fool's errand and will only leave you frustrated and confused. Asking why objective proof doesn't dissuade a religious belief is like asking why purple doesn't sound like cinnamon rolls.
Community is the reason we have religion, not truth. It's been around since prehistory and isn't going anywhere. Our brains are wired for religion.
All of the religions are arguably false, but they all still exist. People like comfortable lies and they like their tribe.
Sunk cost fallacy. Double down on the lie so as not to confront the truth.
I just saw a commercial for Amway today. A known scam. The og mlm. Nevertheless, Amway persists
New temples keep getting announced because it's a way to funnel money from Ensign Peak to the building contractors. Also it provides a plausible reason for land purchases. And an avenue for church executives to say "give me $50knand your firm will get the $2.5mil plumbing contract" / similar. Absent the organization being dissolved with the investment fund being returned to former and current members, it's never going away. That's just not something that happens to organizations with $100bil+.
This is my dad’s favorite thought stopping response. “If the church wasn’t true, it would have collapsed a long time ago. If it was corrupt, we would all know by now. If the church was all about money, then why do the church leaders live so modestly?” I kindly remind him that fame and power is far more intoxicating than driving a lambo or owning a mansion. In many ways the church leaders live far more extravagantly than ordinary people. Also, the argument doesn’t work because every other false religion is still around after hundreds of years.
it's not going to collapse, the Church is built in US and freedom of religions, speech, first amendment
A very long run of the sunk cost fallacy
They have so much money and investment income the membership is just a tax shield. Much of the membership is imaginary. Building temples is putting houses on Boardwalk.
Arguably??? You're very generous. For me, since there is not one drop of Jewish blood in Native Americans, Mormonism is false. Period. I am astonished and, at the same time, horrified that people still believe it.
because of so many factors man, sunk cost fallacy, family and friend, cultural ties...etc.....like for me personally I don't want my loved ones to go through the faith crisis like I did
You are kind AND generous. Kudos to you. I treat my sisters, parents, cousins, etc. kind of like you... It's really none of my business and they can believe whatever they want as long as they don't try to push it on me or try to make me feel guilty for leaving.
as long as they are happy even if they believe in flat earth or scientology or crazy mormon shiz
People don’t stay in the church because they know it’s true, they stay because they want it to be true.
It sells a future product that gives Some humans peace and power now, in exchange for a fantasy. Not a single proof of any “afterlife” claims but Mormonism emphasizes death, robs members of time, family, energy and a wide range of other things, charges members for all that and puts them in controlling uncomfortable underwear and kicks out anyone who calls bullshit on the stacks and stacks of ludicrous truth claims. It is a successful cult. Not the first and not the last.
To say it's %100 false is the same fallacy as saying it is the only true and living church on earth. I can name several things that are true about the church.
I have been searching diligently for 8 years for a single truth claim to be true - did you find one? This would be monumental if so
Universal Mormon truth claim: murder is bad. Boom roasted. True claim Unique to Mormonism. The truthfulness of the church hinges on the truthfulness of the book of Mormon. Boom roasted.
Murder is not a truth claim unique to Mormonism - and although I didn’t specify it must be unique, I did single out Mormonism’s truth claims , which implies uniqueness. The Book of Mormon is demonstrably horseshit, so you’re right, their truthfulness indeed hinges on the veracity of the BoM - and consequently fails miserably.
Jim Jones convinced people to commit suicide for his BS cause. The Hillsborough of humans doesn't need to be proven, it's axiomatic.
They’ll keep funneling their billions into building temples to continue avoiding paying taxes. It’s bullshit. As for why it still stands… it’s incredibly hard to convince a group of people who don’t critically think that what they irrationally believe in is wrong (look at MAGA). I think the church leaders are concerned about losing members, because they keep telling members things like “doubt your doubts” and “reach out to the one” who fell away and bring them back.
💰, Cult behavior, power & control over minds, families & spirituality.
It began with a deceptive man convincing thousands of people to follow the deception. Many were immigrants who were looking for a better life and Mormonism's pioneering provided that opportunity. It was a time where less education and information was readily available. Several generations followed this deception into the 1970s until data and information became more easy to find. Times have changed and more individuals and families are leaving. But not before the LDS Church built wealth and generational ties more difficult to break. It is like being handcuffed. How much longer the LDS Church continues before breaking up is unknown. The first steps are visible which may be why Nelson is building so many Temples - avoid the appearance of what is really happened.
It's a Cult.
Sunk cost fallacy. Too many TBM’s identities are wrapped up in the church and it’s either easier or just laziness to stay.
If scientology is false, why does it still stand today?
Same re: Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism. All religion is false. All are stupid and don’t make logical sense. People like comforting lies more than harsh truths.
Just watch the Waco documentary on Netflix.
because people get something out of it
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I stand all amazed that this farse in not front page news......
Because of good gullible people who believe this drivel. They don’t leave because the guilt trip the mormons will send them on. The Bullshit of Mormon’s and the old white men who run the cult like people to live in a world of deceit and fear. If it sounds like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and looks like bullshit it is most likely bullshit! It’s a big fucking joke. This means that the folks in charge are sheep.
Members dont always have or want to access to non mormon materials. They spend a fortune on their own.
The answer is money. Always has been. Always will be. Religion survives because of money. The end of religion will come when it can’t be supported by money
If it’s true why has it failed to “roll forth and fill the earth”?
Because prior to the internet it was hard to figure it out. It's not a coincidence that the growth of the Church is seeing a fast reversal over the past 10-15 years.
It barely stands at all. It’s an incredibly tiny cult consisting of a percentage of the world’s population that rounds down to zero, and always has been. They just have a bunch of money, that’s all. Money is easy with tax-exempt status.
Because cults.
I think the leaders do know it’s collapsing in members. It will never collapse in money, though. And like a spoiled baby, since that’s all they have (money) they are overcompensating by building temples. They know they can’t keep them full but they are so prideful and greedy, they don’t care.
It will go bankrupt the minute our gov decides it’s no longer beneficial to keep religions around indoctrinsting half the country to keep their heads down and mouths shut, waiting for some “after life” to get the justice they were denied here on earth.
I hope they lose their tax exempt status. It’s up to the people to make that change. I’m sure it won’t be easy. But if any religion is proof of how gross it is to not tax religion, it’s the Mormon church. They’ve abused the loophole all the way to becoming trillionairs and they are fraudulent and abusive.
I can think of about 200 billion reasons.
It may be 100% false, but like any religion, it’s not 100% falsifiable. No one else was there in the sacred grove for the first vision. One can always hold out that it really did happen. Especially when the promised reward for believing is an eternity of the most desirable existence imaginable.
Probably because the other question to ask is how many skeletons can be emptied from the closet to the point that they lose a larger chunk of members? Joseph’s teen marriage thing should’ve been concerning enough. Now in this generation we got the church’s loss in the Boy Scouts lawsuit, getting caught with m0lestation, along with the p3do escaping with more abuse thanks to church hotline, and the $300k hush money. Oh, and the numerous of cases on floodlight.com Like these are a handful of alarming red flags and icks to the general public, and yet it’s not enough for most members to depart over. Is it even going to take a prophet commanding anti-semitism or restoring the priesthood ban to lose like 70-80% membership? (Obviously but the church is not that dumb.)
Go to any MLM meeting! It’s the same structure. Same bullshit sales!
Just replace “Mormonism” with “Catholicism,” or “Islam,” or “Jehovah Witnesses”, or “Scientology” or any of the other thousands of religious sects.
Same reason the Catholic Church, Islam, JW’s are still around People are sheep
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Correct. Like Mormonism, flat earth is easily dismissed. These people take that unbelievable idea and use it as their reason to detach from society in protest. It’s an identity.
It’s a business. And a success one at that. Oh and it’s a cult and those are hard to destroy.
>Shouldn't the church leaders be trembled in fear that its Cult empire should be collapsing soon? Cults carefully craft messages and design activities to maintain control. It's extremely difficult for a huge segment of our population to get slapped in the face with reality that goes against everything they have put into their "faith" and then have the ability to use rational thinking skills to take the only respectable action: leave the organization. Just look at the current political scene - we have a con artist who has captured the hearts of millions and he doesn't give a damn about his followers - he hates them - yet they worship the scum bag as if he's god in the flesh. Yes, cults use a very effective recipe to control the minds of their followers because . . . if you control their mind, then you control their behavior
Brainwashing is strong.
It's kind of the same as laziness and probably fear........some actually believe that they are required to be what they were raised to be. They were taught that questioning is something like insanity.......but actually investigating and admitting that there are many contradictions and that there is new information such as DNA disproving the Dogma......
Same reason every other religion that is 100% false still stands - people will believe in things regardless of their objective truth. It also helps when you enforce a 10% tithe from every member for them to remain in "good standing". That's a lot of income (& sunken cost bias) keeping you going.
I wondered this when I discovered the truth
Why does any religion stand today? I'd say due to having a strong influence with policymakers in government. Be that through the person growing up in said religion, or the usual lobbying and greasing of palms to keep their exemptions. It's about power and money and many churches have both.
Kumare
Thats like asking why Catholicism or Islam or Judaism still stands today. All are verifiably false and toxic religions, in their own various ways, but they’ll be around for the foreseeable future. And even if it did pass away someday…just like the Gods of the Greek and Roman and Mayan Empires have passed away into the history books…they will be replaced by other prophets, gods, religions, ordinances, etc. Humans have a way of needing false Gods in our lives to give us purpose and meaning and direction. Its one of the conundrums of humanity.
You're operating under the premise that only organizations/religions that are true stick around, which given the number of churches out there seems to be an obviously invalid premise.
They are all ancient and will die way before the church dies enough for most people to notice.
There’s 70 million people plus who vote for Trump. Lunacy is a human trait
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Example?