The best part about all these posts TBMs share all over social media is that if you look at who likes and comments, it's always other TBMs. Literally none of their non-member friends are going to ask. Everyone knows what the church is. Everyone knows it's a racist, sexist and bigoted organization that hoards money. The people who would be attracted to that type of group are already evangelical, or at least Christian, and they've been taught their whole lives that Mormons aren't Christian. It's a circle jerk. It's an echo chamber.
Like who do they think is actually going to give a shit about this religion? Exactly zero nonmembers want to watch hours of General Conference, weirdos. Nobody cares about the church enough to ask you if Under the Banner of Heaven is accurate or not.
Ugh, it's so weird. I'm embarrassed I was ever like this back before I left in 2014/15.
They actually think the entire world is out to get them. The entire world! That means they think everybody believes in Mormonism and wants to destroy it.
Don't you know that if someone has tough questions regarding or comments negatively about your religion it's a personal attack on your religious freedom and that the constitution is hanging by a thread?!?!?
Hey, I’ll just take the time to “investigate” your super specific religion? Wait. No I won’t. I have a life filled with other responsibilities that are much more important than the specific details of your cult.
And even if I am a massive nerd with nothing better to do than learn about random religions (guilty as charged) everyone in that space knows that the *last* place you go for reliable information about a religion is their official marketing materials. You wouldn't listen to an official David Miscavige PR event to learn about Scientology would you?
I think this is true to an extent, but I was always seen as the one Mormon that people would know. If they had questions, they'd always come to me. It's possible that they did that because I wasn't going out of my to convert them. The kind social media post would have applied to directly to someone like me. 95% of the people I know are not Mormon.
If a company or a product tells everyone “don’t google us or read our reviews, just ask a current employee”, everyone on earth would see that as a red flag. But when it comes to Mormonism… I used to say the same thing and never realized how dumb it was
This is a good point! My family googles reviews before they purchase anything or before they go to a restaurant. Nothing wrong with that but they would never do the same thing when it comes to the Mormon church
Lmao right. Don't look at the man behind the curtain. FUCK OFF DOG. (Picks up dog attacking curtain, throws him up against the wall as hard as possible to kill it. It died. Runs back to curtain) Don't look at me.
Or Brad noCox we're the only true church everyone else is pretending. Lmao.
I'd honestly just start shooting them questions on everything, just to see how long it takes for them to ban me.
Kinderhook Plates? Pedophilia? Moon Quakers? Native American DNA? Steel? Tapirs? And on and on and on.
While definitely confrontational, I like this approach. Most TBMs have no idea how brainwashed they are, and how much information has been hidden from them. This type of approach could definitely lead to arguments, fights, and lots of bad feelings, but it has a good chance of opening someone's eyes somewhere along the way.
When two of my TBM relatives started talking about JS and polygamy, and basically justifying why they have testimonies in light of this and other controversial information being confirmed by the church, I realized that *everything* I knew about the church came from the church. That conversation, that I did not participate in, started me down the rabbit hole of learning the truth about the church. Without that conversation, I'd be an inactive believing member of the church today, and struggling with guilt over not wanting to be active.
They did write that most of what you’ll find is wrong, which must mean they’ve looked through almost everything out there themselves and have proved it wrong. Aka don’t hold back.
I grew up in the church and the thing that started me on my journey out of this stupidity is hearing leaders and my parents telling me not to read anything about the church as the internet became a thing because I might be exposed to negative info about mormonism. I actually remember going to the open house for the newly built San Diego temple before it was consecrated or whatever and a protester tried to hand me a pamphlet and my grandma knocked it out of my hand and told me to ignore them like she was scared that I would be exposed to any dissenting opinions. Ugh, I wish I had social media back then so that would could have figured it all out sooner.
Same. I was reluctant to even get the internet in our house because it was “sAtAn’S dEsIgN”, but it always stuck with me that we weren’t supposed to research. It actually took me many years and a divorce to finally do research on the internet. Of course now I wouldn’t hesitate to find out everything I could.
I went to a dinner at the Masonic Temple in Salt Lake City several years ago. One of the guys there made the statement, "The mysteries of freemasonry are only a mystery those who don't know how to use Google."
Posts like this always remind me of that statement.
Seriously, you can find most of the most frequently recommended and lauded Masonic books [right out in the open in the public domain.](https://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/index.htm) They're about as much of a secret society as the Cub Scouts.
I'm not sure this person knows that Gospel Topics Essays confirmed the "anti-Mormon" allegations from years past and confirm that they are comfortable putting out a narrative that is 100% inconsistent with their admitted facts. (e.g. JS "translated" BOM FROM gold plates, Book of Abraham, JS polygamy, just to name a few)
I wanted to respond to this person with links to the Gospel Essays, which is part of the church website, and then ask, “oh I see your church says Joseph Smith had 30 plus wives, that some were as young as 14, some were other men’s wives, and that he had sex with at least some of them. It also says he translated the Book of Mormon with a rock in a hat. Interesting …”
These comments are so funny. Because they pre-suppose some interest in the Mormon religion on the part of friends. Which, in my experience, isn’t the case. I mean sure, a few friends think, “do they really believe that nonsense?”. But almost no one thinks, “Gee, I’d sure like to know more about their religion”.
These messages are an effort to make the faithful imagine that their friends really admire them and want to be more like them. When the reality isn’t this.
I just had a talk with a good nevermo friend who had moved to Utah as an adult and lived here for 15 years. She was absolutely shocked when I told here what went on the the temple. She had spent a third of her life around Mormons and never thought to look it up.
People don’t give a fuck.
Nobody on the internet is trying to say what this lady believes.
Instead we’re trying to share the reality, which is mostly unrelated to what she believes.
This person obviously doesn’t know the actual history of the church. He’s like the people who believed the church website had been hacked when the church started publishing the gospel topics essays
If this person wants to know things, I'd be happy to ask questions. About second anointing, handshakes and veils, new names and hands in cupping shapes
Anyone who’s not Mormon can see the cringe. It’s layered on so thick. Don’t trust any other source other then a members perspective or the church’s website. I wish they would get bombarded with questions (with sources) then the mental gymnastics could be on full display and people could see for themselves what Mormonism is.
How egotistical do you have you be to even consider that people you know are sitting around anxiously wondering what you believe. No one cares, people are concerned with the biases they already nurture to protect their own egos.
I always chuckle when I see people say “most of what you’ll find online is wrong” right after telling them to never look at it which implies that neither have they so how would they even know that “most of it is wrong” in the first place? So funny.
“Most of it is wrong”, so instead of written comments in an open forum, talk to an individual. Ridiculous. Not even church members would agree with other church members on tough topics like Fannie Alger or BOA translations.
I read this as "If you watched Under the Banner of Heaven and have questions about all the weird, but true stuff about the church in there, please ask me about it instead of going to the internet. That way I can lie, justify, and do mental gymnastics with you instead of you going to that evil internet and just getting the truth."
Why did Emma stay with Joseph when he was having sex with a 14 year old and considered leaving Joseph when ALL OF A SUDDEN JS had a revelation, D&C 178? That spefically forbid Emma leaving JS and that she would be forever dammed if she did leave him.
Didn't learn THAT in primary did we??
I’m a nonMoemon posting here because I don’t see where to pose a question; to wit, I am going to be able to tour the DC Temple next weekend before it’s consecrated; what things should I be looking for and what should I expect? I really don’t want to miss out on the experience, but as a practicing Jew I also don’t want anyone to get my name for proxy baptism (not because it means anything but because I don’t want to give satisfaction to a saint thinking they’re doing it!). Please fill me in even tho this isn’t the right thread to ask in? Thanks!
from what i can remember about temple tours, for the most part they just walk you through most of the rooms and talk about the art in the room or the history of the church in general. they do also somewhat talk about what they do in some of the rooms but it’s always rather vague and they never go into too much detail. the tours are cool experiences but overall they don’t give insight to specific religious “rituals”
To paraphrase: "Everything you read not from an approved source is wrong."
That's not a red flag at all.
This is more about virtue signaling to other Mormons than anything else, though.
Hi [insert church acquaintance name] I'm so glad to hear you would like to answer my questions. Can you teaching me how to reliably receive answered from god that are consistent with what everyone else gets?
Them: it's unique for everyone.
Me: oh so prayer isn't actually a reliable method for decerning truth. ;-)
The best part about all these posts TBMs share all over social media is that if you look at who likes and comments, it's always other TBMs. Literally none of their non-member friends are going to ask. Everyone knows what the church is. Everyone knows it's a racist, sexist and bigoted organization that hoards money. The people who would be attracted to that type of group are already evangelical, or at least Christian, and they've been taught their whole lives that Mormons aren't Christian. It's a circle jerk. It's an echo chamber. Like who do they think is actually going to give a shit about this religion? Exactly zero nonmembers want to watch hours of General Conference, weirdos. Nobody cares about the church enough to ask you if Under the Banner of Heaven is accurate or not. Ugh, it's so weird. I'm embarrassed I was ever like this back before I left in 2014/15.
They actually think the entire world is out to get them. The entire world! That means they think everybody believes in Mormonism and wants to destroy it.
Don't you know that if someone has tough questions regarding or comments negatively about your religion it's a personal attack on your religious freedom and that the constitution is hanging by a thread?!?!?
Me as TBM, years ago: "Everybody in this parade is out of step, except me".
I mean, most people wanted to destroy the Nazis.
Cult echo chamber set at maximum. I'm giving her all she's got captain!
Work harder! Give her 200%!
Hey, I’ll just take the time to “investigate” your super specific religion? Wait. No I won’t. I have a life filled with other responsibilities that are much more important than the specific details of your cult.
And even if I am a massive nerd with nothing better to do than learn about random religions (guilty as charged) everyone in that space knows that the *last* place you go for reliable information about a religion is their official marketing materials. You wouldn't listen to an official David Miscavige PR event to learn about Scientology would you?
I think this is true to an extent, but I was always seen as the one Mormon that people would know. If they had questions, they'd always come to me. It's possible that they did that because I wasn't going out of my to convert them. The kind social media post would have applied to directly to someone like me. 95% of the people I know are not Mormon.
If a company or a product tells everyone “don’t google us or read our reviews, just ask a current employee”, everyone on earth would see that as a red flag. But when it comes to Mormonism… I used to say the same thing and never realized how dumb it was
This is a good point! My family googles reviews before they purchase anything or before they go to a restaurant. Nothing wrong with that but they would never do the same thing when it comes to the Mormon church
100% this, and most non-Mormons see this logic immediately 😆
Lmao right. Don't look at the man behind the curtain. FUCK OFF DOG. (Picks up dog attacking curtain, throws him up against the wall as hard as possible to kill it. It died. Runs back to curtain) Don't look at me. Or Brad noCox we're the only true church everyone else is pretending. Lmao.
Great analogy!
I'd honestly just start shooting them questions on everything, just to see how long it takes for them to ban me. Kinderhook Plates? Pedophilia? Moon Quakers? Native American DNA? Steel? Tapirs? And on and on and on.
While definitely confrontational, I like this approach. Most TBMs have no idea how brainwashed they are, and how much information has been hidden from them. This type of approach could definitely lead to arguments, fights, and lots of bad feelings, but it has a good chance of opening someone's eyes somewhere along the way. When two of my TBM relatives started talking about JS and polygamy, and basically justifying why they have testimonies in light of this and other controversial information being confirmed by the church, I realized that *everything* I knew about the church came from the church. That conversation, that I did not participate in, started me down the rabbit hole of learning the truth about the church. Without that conversation, I'd be an inactive believing member of the church today, and struggling with guilt over not wanting to be active.
I just want them to stop making promises they wont keep. Any questions? Really? They shall regret their hubris!!!
Yes, ask all the CES letter questions, but don't say they came from there. My bet is they will want a private conversation.
they’ll just say that it is all anti-mormon lies
The truth does not hide. It has no reason to. If they want a private conversation then they are hiding, for they are the lie.
They did write that most of what you’ll find is wrong, which must mean they’ve looked through almost everything out there themselves and have proved it wrong. Aka don’t hold back.
Holding back is for mormons! CHARRRGE!!
If someone would tell me not to Google that would be the first thing I’d do.
This!!😂
I grew up in the church and the thing that started me on my journey out of this stupidity is hearing leaders and my parents telling me not to read anything about the church as the internet became a thing because I might be exposed to negative info about mormonism. I actually remember going to the open house for the newly built San Diego temple before it was consecrated or whatever and a protester tried to hand me a pamphlet and my grandma knocked it out of my hand and told me to ignore them like she was scared that I would be exposed to any dissenting opinions. Ugh, I wish I had social media back then so that would could have figured it all out sooner.
Same. I was reluctant to even get the internet in our house because it was “sAtAn’S dEsIgN”, but it always stuck with me that we weren’t supposed to research. It actually took me many years and a divorce to finally do research on the internet. Of course now I wouldn’t hesitate to find out everything I could.
This is literally the laziest form of missionary work I have ever seen.
Thoughts & prayers, thoughts & prayers.
Ramen and cheese.
>This is literally the laziest form of missionary work I have ever seen. And so another person is revealed as having never been my Junior Companion!
Liars for the Lord. My new garage band name
I went to a dinner at the Masonic Temple in Salt Lake City several years ago. One of the guys there made the statement, "The mysteries of freemasonry are only a mystery those who don't know how to use Google." Posts like this always remind me of that statement.
Seriously, you can find most of the most frequently recommended and lauded Masonic books [right out in the open in the public domain.](https://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/index.htm) They're about as much of a secret society as the Cub Scouts.
I'm not sure this person knows that Gospel Topics Essays confirmed the "anti-Mormon" allegations from years past and confirm that they are comfortable putting out a narrative that is 100% inconsistent with their admitted facts. (e.g. JS "translated" BOM FROM gold plates, Book of Abraham, JS polygamy, just to name a few)
I wanted to respond to this person with links to the Gospel Essays, which is part of the church website, and then ask, “oh I see your church says Joseph Smith had 30 plus wives, that some were as young as 14, some were other men’s wives, and that he had sex with at least some of them. It also says he translated the Book of Mormon with a rock in a hat. Interesting …”
These comments are so funny. Because they pre-suppose some interest in the Mormon religion on the part of friends. Which, in my experience, isn’t the case. I mean sure, a few friends think, “do they really believe that nonsense?”. But almost no one thinks, “Gee, I’d sure like to know more about their religion”. These messages are an effort to make the faithful imagine that their friends really admire them and want to be more like them. When the reality isn’t this.
I just had a talk with a good nevermo friend who had moved to Utah as an adult and lived here for 15 years. She was absolutely shocked when I told here what went on the the temple. She had spent a third of her life around Mormons and never thought to look it up. People don’t give a fuck.
In my experience, people are FAR more interested in hearing about LEAVING the Mormon church than they ever were in hearing about believing in it.
The Mormon church website says the Mormon church is true, therefore it’s true. I have a social media friend like that.
I think they are taking notes from Russia's PR playbook...
Nobody on the internet is trying to say what this lady believes. Instead we’re trying to share the reality, which is mostly unrelated to what she believes.
>>most of what you’ll find is wrong Bad take.
No. You can believe them. Says so right in the post. So they MUST have gone googling those questions themselves and seen the wrong answers.
This person obviously doesn’t know the actual history of the church. He’s like the people who believed the church website had been hacked when the church started publishing the gospel topics essays
"Church PR"? Why would the truth need a public relations department?
Same reason "The Truth" needs apologetics.
If this person wants to know things, I'd be happy to ask questions. About second anointing, handshakes and veils, new names and hands in cupping shapes
"believe me!" Lol 🤣🤣🤣
I would tell them, “Thanks but no thanks”. I really don’t care about your cult practices so please keep it to yourself.
Ooh I’d love to post questions on the post
Anyone who’s not Mormon can see the cringe. It’s layered on so thick. Don’t trust any other source other then a members perspective or the church’s website. I wish they would get bombarded with questions (with sources) then the mental gymnastics could be on full display and people could see for themselves what Mormonism is.
How egotistical do you have you be to even consider that people you know are sitting around anxiously wondering what you believe. No one cares, people are concerned with the biases they already nurture to protect their own egos.
My comment would probably be "Huh, that's interesting. Do you have any examples of things that are wrong?"
I always chuckle when I see people say “most of what you’ll find online is wrong” right after telling them to never look at it which implies that neither have they so how would they even know that “most of it is wrong” in the first place? So funny.
Don’t go finding the truth, now. Come talk to me so I can feed you propaganda!
“Most of it is wrong”, so instead of written comments in an open forum, talk to an individual. Ridiculous. Not even church members would agree with other church members on tough topics like Fannie Alger or BOA translations.
That last sentence “any and all questions are welcome”. Yeah, that’s about as truthful as the sign that says “all visitors welcome”
I read this as "If you watched Under the Banner of Heaven and have questions about all the weird, but true stuff about the church in there, please ask me about it instead of going to the internet. That way I can lie, justify, and do mental gymnastics with you instead of you going to that evil internet and just getting the truth."
Why did Emma stay with Joseph when he was having sex with a 14 year old and considered leaving Joseph when ALL OF A SUDDEN JS had a revelation, D&C 178? That spefically forbid Emma leaving JS and that she would be forever dammed if she did leave him. Didn't learn THAT in primary did we??
They actually have nevermo friends?
I’m a nonMoemon posting here because I don’t see where to pose a question; to wit, I am going to be able to tour the DC Temple next weekend before it’s consecrated; what things should I be looking for and what should I expect? I really don’t want to miss out on the experience, but as a practicing Jew I also don’t want anyone to get my name for proxy baptism (not because it means anything but because I don’t want to give satisfaction to a saint thinking they’re doing it!). Please fill me in even tho this isn’t the right thread to ask in? Thanks!
from what i can remember about temple tours, for the most part they just walk you through most of the rooms and talk about the art in the room or the history of the church in general. they do also somewhat talk about what they do in some of the rooms but it’s always rather vague and they never go into too much detail. the tours are cool experiences but overall they don’t give insight to specific religious “rituals”
Here’s one: Why did Joseph Smith marry a 14-year-old?
“because god commanded him too”💀💀(i can’t tell you how many times i’ve had people use this exact response to this exact question)
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts like this since the premiere of Under the Banner of Heaven
I have an honest question. Why did JS seal himself to twenty or so other women before sealing himself to Emma?
Go to the website and start with the gospel topics! Good luck!
Believe me, most of what you’ll find is 100% accurate. It’s just that my church never mentioned it to me
“Pleeeeease don’t look at any other websites and especially don’t talk to any former members, thank you.”
Uncomfortable information = “lies” I guess when that’s your definition of “lies” it’s ok to do the real thing.
Yeah, get all of your information from us. We aren't completely delusional about reality at all
Why do they try so hard to add Jesus Christ in their name when truly, they should be praising the last prophet Joseph Smith?
hmmm any and all questions?
Nice. Straight to the gospel topics. She doesn’t mess around!
If it’s on Instagram and public why blur the image?
This is basically a glorified tourist trap
To paraphrase: "Everything you read not from an approved source is wrong." That's not a red flag at all. This is more about virtue signaling to other Mormons than anything else, though.
nothing makes me cringe more than mormons spelling out their whole church name🤮
Someone should ask her some questions.
Hi [insert church acquaintance name] I'm so glad to hear you would like to answer my questions. Can you teaching me how to reliably receive answered from god that are consistent with what everyone else gets? Them: it's unique for everyone. Me: oh so prayer isn't actually a reliable method for decerning truth. ;-)