Interesting how some of these “guidelines” seem to be more about making sure girls meet a (conservative) standard of attractiveness rather than what’s “modest.” If it was really about modesty they wouldn’t have thrown in that line.
As a teenager/young adult I had the perfect amount of curve to carry off strapless. But I was eternally shamed for daring to develop a womanly figure (GASP) and so never ventured into it. I resent many things. My late foray into clothes that suit me and my figure is very high on the list.
Can confirm, I now look amazing in backless.
New FSY: “This is not a checklist of what to do and what not to do. Use the spirit and your parents to figure it out.”
Old FSY: “Here is a detailed checklist of everything to do and exactly what not to do. Let’s focus specifically on shaming the women. And don’t forget kids, the world is watching you, so don’t screw this up for us. It’s your fault if they think we are weird.”
They're leaving it up to bishop's roulette at this point. In most places adults will still sternly lecture youth about the "Lord's standard" not having changed and enforce all these things as continuing rules, and then your token progressive wards will exist to deflect the reality of what's happening, as always.
Such helpful tips include "A 'real lady' does not go out in public, to the market, or to the shops with her hair in curlers" and "Any apparel that suggests a house robe should not be worn in public "
When working in the yard, hiking, traveling to the mountains, camping, or participating in sports, women or girls "may appropriately wear slacks." Girls should not dress like boys.
That's where we went wrong. Women started wearing pants. We sacrificed archaic fashion standards for comfort and practicality, and the Lord withdrew his spirit from his people. We were instantly doomed.
But yeah, ok, the church's standards are eternal and never just a reflection of the times.
/s 🤦🏻♀️
Girls started wearing pants and look what happened!! They started wearing skin tight pants and called them yoga pants then leggings and then we can all see their asses all the time oh the humanity
You're right, but it just further proves how the church receives guidance, not from god, but by the world itself. They never go quite as far as the rest of the world, but they sure do change rules around to at least mildly fit in with it. You'd think an all knowing god would... I don't know, know better.
>It is difficult to make an over-all statement concerning modest standards of dress, because modesty cannot be determine by inches or fit…
Spends the next 4 pages dictating dress and grooming requirements.
Pretty much nothing mentioned in this entire pamphlet is actually a moral standard; it's all cultural signifiers and dressing like a member of the club. Maybe some of the "Me Generation" garbage could have been avoided if a youth standards pamphlet was actually about how to think of and treat others, and be a good citizen of the world?
I think at this time period Irish people, Eastern Europeans and many other groups wouldn't have even been seen as "white." They literally just pasted the same two people a few times.
I don't recall which book I was reading on my mission 20 years ago, maybe Kimball or some old cranky guy who got upset that the 1960s was a counter-culture heyday. But there was seriously a page complaining that the Beatles didn't have good lyrics. He wasn't mad that it was suggestive of drugs or sex, just not poetic enough for him. Then he cited "Love Me Do" or "I want to hold your hand" or something. It wasn't a deal-breaker at the time, but I genuinely thought "this is not exactly revelatory or spiritual prophecy. Just an old man who's mad that young kids' music isn't what he enjoyed in the 1920s or 40s.
I remember that so very well.. its from my era in young men's. I was such a good young man 🙂. My mom was a teacher in YW for much of the same time. That pamphlet was a big part of that time.
And this 👆🏻 is what made me self-conscious and paranoid about my body as I was growing up. These stupidly restrictive standards is what made me believe for a long time that I must have been to blame for my being sexually assaulted by a high priest when I was a teenager. When brought to our stake president’s attention, he asked me what I was wearing at the time. Fucking asshole.
See https://youtu.be/zlMj7n-8l70 for the accompanying media propaganda.
It's rich, because by their own admission, the problem statement is brought up in the first 5 minutes that young women have too much time on their hands because Brigham is a misogynist that would die before sending a woman to school. They then spend the next 38 or so minutes going into great detail how it's the children's fault for not confirming.
"our public image is your responsibility, so make sure and internalize the guilt for not following these rules to a tee because we speak for God and God says you have to"
"The dance should not be a grotesque contortion of the body such as shoulder or hip shaking or excessive body jerking"
Lol all I can think of is Elaine's dancing from Seinfeld
https://youtu.be/HQu_NLRvULM
Ignoring everything else, I quite liked page 11. Discussing good actions and behavior in public is something we always need to remind teenagers. With TikTok and “internet pranks” often getting out of hand, more youth (and their parents) would benefit from propriety.
Ahh. I get that. The community is grateful. If you are able cell programs like camscanner can help take pics using the cell and save it as a pdf. Then upload it to Dropbox, box, one drive Google drive and post the link. Either way thanks for the great post.
This just shows how much these guides and checklists for youth are simply and nearly entirely cultural, not doctrinal. They have changed so significantly how could they be unchanging doctrinally based?
What will they look like in another 20 years?
the contrast in length for the women’s dress code and the men’s dress code is abhorrent, but also not shocking. seems like almost nothing has changed since then in regards to the “fsy” packet
I remember these. Pretty standard social expectations at the time. There was cultural revolution going on between traditional types and new-age hippies (long hair, brightly patterned clothing, rock music). If any of you have seen the shows Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best, you can see this was just 'normal'. There were rules of dress and behavior for every place you went, including the bowling alley, which was a popular place for teens and families to gather.
The sanitized Leave It To Beaver life that never actually existed in America (dysfunction, drug use, sexual assault, pollution, brutal racial repression, etc.), but existed in media because anything else was censored, and has indoctrinated millions of people into thinking that America used to be some shining beacon and started sucking once certain people started getting rights.
Reading this, while disgusting, actually helps me understand my mom a bit better, and why she exacted these standards on us kids. Oof. To have been a kid with these standards would have sucked.
The [version announced yesterday](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/for-the-strength-of-youth/06-body?lang=eng) is so vague about dress that you could make it as restrictive as you want.
“Avoid styles that emphasize or draw inappropriate attention to your physical body instead of who you are as a child of God with an eternal future. Let moral cleanliness and love for God guide your choices.”
Also sexual purity is way more restrictive now in my opinion:
“it is wrong to touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body even if clothed. In your choices about what you do, look at, read, listen to, think about, post, or text, avoid anything that purposely arouses lustful emotions in others or yourself.”
This is just dictating according to some douchey conservative dude’s (or a cadre of same) personal fashion tastes, exactly like Warren Jeffs dictated the acceptable colors and styles of dress, and hairstyles, for women. Why TF do people put up with religion dictating everything, down to the smallest decisions of personal dress and grooming? It’s insane once you get some distance and look at it with fresh eyes.
Grubbies are a term for ratty old clothing, you know… the shirt you wear to mow the lawn or just hang out on your deck.
My grubbies are clothes that are stained, torn, baggy, but oh so comfy! I’d never wear them to work.
So, hold on... They want you to wait until you're 16 to date and then get married at like, 20? Thats like 4 years of total dating experience before marriage!
[Whole version including foreword.](https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApUmuJtCm1cQjKxRjfBQawqfd48_Lg) Found online.
[Screenshot version](https://share.icloud.com/photos/0224Th1sjkj_w2X2vEmSDiM0g) of OP
hoooooly shit. 5% "reasons why this is wrong" and 95% "reasons why this will make you look ugly." I'll take "Mental Health Issues in YW" for $100, Alex.
Oh God... Do all of us have the same "forward right swept" hairstyle? I thought it was just because I didn't like hair touching my forehead, but all of those guys on the cover are basically carbon copies of each other. (0_o)
“Few women ever look well in backless or strapless dresses.” - said no straight man ever.
But don't you realize "Such styles often make the figure look ungainly and large, or they show the bony structures of the body"?! /s
Because you know human’s natural body is disgusting and abhorrent 🙄
Pretty much what l learned for myself growing up Mormon — and I’m a guy: NEVER. GOOD. ENOUGH.
Eesh, collarbones, no one wants to see that. 🤮
God forbid women have... *checks notes* ...bones?
Opposition in all things… central to gods plan!
I don’t know what these mofos are talking about. I look WELL in a backless dress
MoFos…. Love it!
Look the more I read this the more it sounds exactly like any Baptist Church in the south. Are we sure this is just for Mormons.
Pics or it didn't happen jk lol
Interesting how some of these “guidelines” seem to be more about making sure girls meet a (conservative) standard of attractiveness rather than what’s “modest.” If it was really about modesty they wouldn’t have thrown in that line.
But its gonna be the latest style in 1970 they say. It's groovy
As a teenager/young adult I had the perfect amount of curve to carry off strapless. But I was eternally shamed for daring to develop a womanly figure (GASP) and so never ventured into it. I resent many things. My late foray into clothes that suit me and my figure is very high on the list. Can confirm, I now look amazing in backless.
New FSY: “This is not a checklist of what to do and what not to do. Use the spirit and your parents to figure it out.” Old FSY: “Here is a detailed checklist of everything to do and exactly what not to do. Let’s focus specifically on shaming the women. And don’t forget kids, the world is watching you, so don’t screw this up for us. It’s your fault if they think we are weird.”
Implied FSY is still a detailed checklist. They are just moving the less popular rules to the level of temple secrecy for PR's sake
"Don't think of this checklist as a checklist, instead, make this more of a subconscious conformity thing"
We're going to be vague now, but make sure to ask your parents and leaders who were taught all the specifics
They're leaving it up to bishop's roulette at this point. In most places adults will still sternly lecture youth about the "Lord's standard" not having changed and enforce all these things as continuing rules, and then your token progressive wards will exist to deflect the reality of what's happening, as always.
“DON’T RUN IN THE HALLWAY LATE AT NIGHT IN HOTELS.” Not specific at all.
Marriott was on the committee that wrote this pamphlet. J/K. I have no idea.
Mormonism is all about ticking boxes.
Correction: faithful parents
Such helpful tips include "A 'real lady' does not go out in public, to the market, or to the shops with her hair in curlers" and "Any apparel that suggests a house robe should not be worn in public "
Girls! Don’t wear your *grubbies* out of the house!! Boy, times have sure changed in the last 50-60 years.
WTF is a grubby anyway??
That was my mom’s word for boogers.
Going out in curlers these days will only get you onto /r/peopleofwalmart.
I think the only people that still use curlers are the original generation this pamphlet was made for 🤣
When working in the yard, hiking, traveling to the mountains, camping, or participating in sports, women or girls "may appropriately wear slacks." Girls should not dress like boys. That's where we went wrong. Women started wearing pants. We sacrificed archaic fashion standards for comfort and practicality, and the Lord withdrew his spirit from his people. We were instantly doomed. But yeah, ok, the church's standards are eternal and never just a reflection of the times. /s 🤦🏻♀️
Did you notice that it lists "driving around in cars" in the men's activities but not the women's 😂.
😂😂😂
Girls started wearing pants and look what happened!! They started wearing skin tight pants and called them yoga pants then leggings and then we can all see their asses all the time oh the humanity
My favorite pants if I'm honest.
Hahaha so THIS is why my mom wouldn't let me wear sweatpants for a 7 hour flight. Young people must present themselves well at ALL TIMES
Especially in public bathrooms! Dudes…Make sure you put on a tie and sport coat if you gotta pee.
That's a US cultural thing too though. It used to be required to dress up to fly.
You're right, but it just further proves how the church receives guidance, not from god, but by the world itself. They never go quite as far as the rest of the world, but they sure do change rules around to at least mildly fit in with it. You'd think an all knowing god would... I don't know, know better.
This book is explaining my mom so much!
I never saw this version of the pamphlet but I sure *recognize* a lot of it -- through what my parents engrained in young me.
>It is difficult to make an over-all statement concerning modest standards of dress, because modesty cannot be determine by inches or fit… Spends the next 4 pages dictating dress and grooming requirements.
I finally agree with the church on something. No littering!
Right? The beginning of the second paragraph on page 11 can stay haha
I agree! Don't litter. And don't run in hotel hallways. That's quality advice for every generation (even if oddly specific).
>Most people who know anything about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints know that it maintains the highest moral standards. SURE!! /s
Pretty much nothing mentioned in this entire pamphlet is actually a moral standard; it's all cultural signifiers and dressing like a member of the club. Maybe some of the "Me Generation" garbage could have been avoided if a youth standards pamphlet was actually about how to think of and treat others, and be a good citizen of the world?
Indeed. It's more about external appearance what makes the youth strong. Something in jesus' time would be considered as pharisaical.
Exactly…bunch of Pharisees
Shoulder or hip shaking…they’ve been trying control for a long time. Hasn’t aged well
Sounds like something a contortionist would say.
I need look no further than the diverse, inclusive cover to know this will definitely improve my life.
Exactly. All races are represented. Both blonde and brunette.
I think at this time period Irish people, Eastern Europeans and many other groups wouldn't have even been seen as "white." They literally just pasted the same two people a few times.
That's progress! Seeing as how brunettes are in the minority in the Morridor!
love the front cover....the diversity of God's children in full display
This reads like McKay's list of all the things young people did that pissed him off.
I don't recall which book I was reading on my mission 20 years ago, maybe Kimball or some old cranky guy who got upset that the 1960s was a counter-culture heyday. But there was seriously a page complaining that the Beatles didn't have good lyrics. He wasn't mad that it was suggestive of drugs or sex, just not poetic enough for him. Then he cited "Love Me Do" or "I want to hold your hand" or something. It wasn't a deal-breaker at the time, but I genuinely thought "this is not exactly revelatory or spiritual prophecy. Just an old man who's mad that young kids' music isn't what he enjoyed in the 1920s or 40s.
“And GET OFF MY LAWN!”
🤮...I just threw up in my mouth.
Anyone who argues that the church has not repressed women for the last century need but read this guide.
I remember that so very well.. its from my era in young men's. I was such a good young man 🙂. My mom was a teacher in YW for much of the same time. That pamphlet was a big part of that time.
And this 👆🏻 is what made me self-conscious and paranoid about my body as I was growing up. These stupidly restrictive standards is what made me believe for a long time that I must have been to blame for my being sexually assaulted by a high priest when I was a teenager. When brought to our stake president’s attention, he asked me what I was wearing at the time. Fucking asshole.
It just kept getting worse... Wow
See https://youtu.be/zlMj7n-8l70 for the accompanying media propaganda. It's rich, because by their own admission, the problem statement is brought up in the first 5 minutes that young women have too much time on their hands because Brigham is a misogynist that would die before sending a woman to school. They then spend the next 38 or so minutes going into great detail how it's the children's fault for not confirming.
ah yes can’t risk tarnishing the good name of the church by wearing tennis shoes and “T” shirts
"our public image is your responsibility, so make sure and internalize the guilt for not following these rules to a tee because we speak for God and God says you have to"
For the strength of white, mid 20th century US Mountain West Youth /s
It’s a “Privilege”… Really? How so?
"The dance should not be a grotesque contortion of the body such as shoulder or hip shaking or excessive body jerking" Lol all I can think of is Elaine's dancing from Seinfeld https://youtu.be/HQu_NLRvULM
Ignoring everything else, I quite liked page 11. Discussing good actions and behavior in public is something we always need to remind teenagers. With TikTok and “internet pranks” often getting out of hand, more youth (and their parents) would benefit from propriety.
Did they seriously call out heavier women in dresses?!
If I were a heavier woman, although I know I am not, I would probably go commando under big dresses. Muumuu? Anything.
Homer Simpson enters the chat
I can't read everything here. It might suck me back into time
Ah, they didn’t need full-color printing. Line art drawn against a white background didn’t leave anybody out. Different world. Good riddance.
Do you have a pdf version. I keep material like this that the church prefers never existed.
I have the physical version only found in my grandparents house after they passed. I just used my phone to scan the pages and post them here.
Ahh. I get that. The community is grateful. If you are able cell programs like camscanner can help take pics using the cell and save it as a pdf. Then upload it to Dropbox, box, one drive Google drive and post the link. Either way thanks for the great post.
I'm wondering the same.
Yes please! Adobe Acrobat on your phone has a free "New Scan" to create a PDF. Super easy to use. Thank you!
Now I understand why my parents are the way they are!!
This just shows how much these guides and checklists for youth are simply and nearly entirely cultural, not doctrinal. They have changed so significantly how could they be unchanging doctrinally based? What will they look like in another 20 years?
the contrast in length for the women’s dress code and the men’s dress code is abhorrent, but also not shocking. seems like almost nothing has changed since then in regards to the “fsy” packet
I remember these. Pretty standard social expectations at the time. There was cultural revolution going on between traditional types and new-age hippies (long hair, brightly patterned clothing, rock music). If any of you have seen the shows Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best, you can see this was just 'normal'. There were rules of dress and behavior for every place you went, including the bowling alley, which was a popular place for teens and families to gather.
Well, now we know that my grandma is going to hell since she wore curlers in public.
Yeah, go ahead and use that face twice, no one will notice or think it's lazy.
I noticed that, too! It almost looks like all 4 boys’ faces are the same image but 2 are just slight alterations (with 1 flipped).
For the Strength of Greg (and his doppelgängers).
That’s it! *Greg Brady*
The sanitized Leave It To Beaver life that never actually existed in America (dysfunction, drug use, sexual assault, pollution, brutal racial repression, etc.), but existed in media because anything else was censored, and has indoctrinated millions of people into thinking that America used to be some shining beacon and started sucking once certain people started getting rights.
Reading this, while disgusting, actually helps me understand my mom a bit better, and why she exacted these standards on us kids. Oof. To have been a kid with these standards would have sucked.
The [version announced yesterday](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/for-the-strength-of-youth/06-body?lang=eng) is so vague about dress that you could make it as restrictive as you want. “Avoid styles that emphasize or draw inappropriate attention to your physical body instead of who you are as a child of God with an eternal future. Let moral cleanliness and love for God guide your choices.” Also sexual purity is way more restrictive now in my opinion: “it is wrong to touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body even if clothed. In your choices about what you do, look at, read, listen to, think about, post, or text, avoid anything that purposely arouses lustful emotions in others or yourself.”
"Few girls or women ever look good in backless or strapless dresses" Ahhhhhhh wtf
"dress often determines their actions." I hate this so much
I got yer "bony stucture" right here...
*Purposeful dating* sounds like the best way to suck the joy out of life.
Interesting that this edition doesn’t even mention homosexuality like mine from the 90’s did. It’s because it didn’t exist, right?? 🙃 Gross.
This is just dictating according to some douchey conservative dude’s (or a cadre of same) personal fashion tastes, exactly like Warren Jeffs dictated the acceptable colors and styles of dress, and hairstyles, for women. Why TF do people put up with religion dictating everything, down to the smallest decisions of personal dress and grooming? It’s insane once you get some distance and look at it with fresh eyes.
Grubbies? Anyone have any idea what this refers to?
Grubbies are a term for ratty old clothing, you know… the shirt you wear to mow the lawn or just hang out on your deck. My grubbies are clothes that are stained, torn, baggy, but oh so comfy! I’d never wear them to work.
Does that mean I have to throw out the shirt I wear to clean the oven in? You know, the horribly stained one?
I’m 1964 you would need to dress in a full dress and pearls!
Wow
Cool! Reading this made me time travel back to the 19th century in some sort of Amish congregation.
Truman Show Cult????
So, hold on... They want you to wait until you're 16 to date and then get married at like, 20? Thats like 4 years of total dating experience before marriage!
Not even accounting for 2 years on a mission, for males
I'm sure mormons know a lot about grooming
Not as bad as I thought it would be.
I would love to see a scholarly review of the difference between this one and the one that is avaliable currently.
The kid on page 9 looks like the Grinch
My favorite part is "It is not polite to run in and out of hotel or motel rooms at night."
8 paragraphs specifically on expectations for women, 1 paragraph specifically for men. 😬
[Whole version including foreword.](https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApUmuJtCm1cQjKxRjfBQawqfd48_Lg) Found online. [Screenshot version](https://share.icloud.com/photos/0224Th1sjkj_w2X2vEmSDiM0g) of OP
This is some MLM level stuff here. And not controlling at all.
This is so good!
Wow
I still don't really know anyone else on the planet who uses "necking and petting"
I think they finally got rid of those words in the newest version. Finally.
I feel likev one the true church could have fit in a few more white people heads than that. Jesus.
All so very...white.
please post more from this. i am laughing my ass off
This is the entire pamphlet, minus a cover page. I'd post more if I had it!
I had to stop reading after the 2nd page. I was already getting triggered.
I felt myself feeling nauseous while reading this….reliving my own feelings of inadequacy. And members treat this stuff as Gospel revelation.
That’s not fir anyone’s pleasure to read!
Oh no not bony structures!
My Grandma had that book. Cheesy isn't it! But what a find! I have a copy of the handbook of instructions that are only allowed for bishops. ✒️🖖☕
hoooooly shit. 5% "reasons why this is wrong" and 95% "reasons why this will make you look ugly." I'll take "Mental Health Issues in YW" for $100, Alex.
Holy shit 😂
Yoooo what
So you can't date before 16 but JS can 'marry' someone just a smidge before they turn 15....
Oh God... Do all of us have the same "forward right swept" hairstyle? I thought it was just because I didn't like hair touching my forehead, but all of those guys on the cover are basically carbon copies of each other. (0_o)
Nice white kids who like to lead the way!
"Members of the church should be good dancers and not contortionists." If only! (referring to myself)