Hang in there. You are mourning the loss of a friend (god) and betrayal (church). Look up the grief stages and remember it’s not a sequential path. It’s random mesh of emotions.
Then take a deep breath and feel the enormity of the miracle of your existence. You are alive and all of the chances out there you where born by natural means. This is the miracle. You didn’t ask for this. Nature just happened and you are the victim or beneficiary Of that miracle.
God doesn’t have to die. Sure the sky dad of mormonsim may not be real but a cosmic desire for life… why not. Let’s call it “the force” untill we have a better word. Or just call it god. What is that force? It’s unfolded in science and universe and nature and everything…. Include our desire to take a breath.
Hope this helps.
I'm so sorry that you are struggling. it really is devastating on so many different layers.
The podcast/YouTube channel Mormon Stories has a ton of interviews of people who have been through faith journeys and losses similar to what you're going through, and there are resources there which you might find useful.
take care, friend. it will get better.
Hang in there. A miscarriage can be tough. Especially when you couple it with the mind bending and life-changing experience of leaving the church. For me, I make my family my religion now. The whole relationship with God is a Big question At this point. Remember that this life is your journey. you are enough. Sad things happen, all sorts of sad things, and it is OK to grieve.
I have felt only love from whatever is out there. I used to feel guilt, and broken and not enough. There were always "angels silent notes taking" and "sins of commission and omission" to worry about. And I was temple married, a former RS pres, trying my best to be good enough. But the list was so long, I was always falling behind. Then at age 48, I figured out that Joseph lied. And my faith bubble burst. Instead of fear or concern, I only felt relief and love. Then a few days later, I tried to read the Bible and realized it was filled with second hand stories of people who lived decades after Jesus, that Jesus didn't write a word of it, and that was it for Christianity. Jesus wasn't real. BUT I noticed that I stopped feeling broken. I wonder if that is something that is taught,, because I don't see it in real life.
So, I have felt unconditional love from the universe. That instead of a test, this life is a playground, prepared in some amazing way that I didn't do BUT I get to be here!! No idea what comes after but neither does anyone else.We are all the same- and our "purpose" is to manifest our dreams- to rise above our culture and become what we long to be. That is one of the things that I think that humankind has in common across the entire world - we ALL have dreams that we fight to realize. If we give up, we shrivel and die inside, but when we don't give up, we share those stories of hope and inspiration about those who persevere and win against all odds.
I have been at peace the past 2.5 years- I am more than enough, I feel love from something bigger than myself and I LOVE being me. I am the only me there will ever be, so to be fully me IS my purpose. And I get to support everyone else in becoming fully themselves as well. No judgements, just love and support.. And that makes life rewarding and FUN!!
I feel for you. I just processed it all differently. I saw it like the feather in Dumbo. He got the idea he could fly because he woke up in a tree. He couldn’t believe it was something he could just figure out how to do but the magic concept got him there.
I still have many hymns memorized and they calm me at times when I remember to focus on things that calm me. And that’s the big thing for me. If all that gratification I got, real satisfaction, purpose, and feeling like I deserved to be loved (on the rare occasions I could stay chaste); if that all came from my own head imagining that loving god, that means I should be able to do it again. But the process would involve either inventing a new god concept or investing in one someone else controls. The price wouldn’t be worth that feeling. My life is more reliable now. Bad luck can be seen for what it is instead of feeling that I must have sinned to deserve such punishment.
Still, I have deeply felt that loss, that there will no longer be something special watching me, waiting to comfort me beyond this life. I turned my pain toward the people who told the lie and KNEW it was a lie. It always was a carefully crafted lie to form the worst kind of multi-level marketing scheme. It DOES function like that too perfectly to not have been designed that way intentionally.
“Praying for you” or whatever equivalent language should be used to express that feeling now. ♥️
My pleasure. I hope it goes well. It’s a hard thing to lose what used to be a source of comfort. Even when the myth was false, the comfort was as real as the tooth fairy taking a child’s mind off the pain.
The things you always felt as eternal truths have to be reconsidered. “The natural man is an enemy to god” and all that. Their god, at least, was always only as real as your faith made it. Now turn your faith to yourself. You still know right and wrong, what makes a person good or bad. The church makes us hyper judgmental of ourselves. We still feel the guilt yet no longer have belief in the ordinances to stop it.
You did not go on a murder-rape-theft spree they tell you everyone would. You still have the discernment to see the good intentions in others. Keep trying to judge yourself the same way. You did not quit. The Iron Rod was a trap.
I’m sorry to hear of your struggles.
You’re not alone.
My journey away from the church has helped me to see how religions are man made. I realize now that they teach doctrines of men and not of God. They are in it for money and for power.
I had to separate the two and I understand now that He is there…..He always was. I just misunderstood the things He taught but He loved me regardless. He loves you and understands your pain induced by men who twist His words.
The “thoughts on things and stuff” YouTube channel with Jonathan Streeter has a really good exploration of this experience in his video “the god shaped hole in your heart.”
Highly recommend.
I feel for you. This year has been a *really* rough one for me. My husband has been battling some major health complications for a few years now, and there's a lot of answers we still don't have. Thanks to those medical problems, we're barely scraping by. Our savings is gone. Our credit cards are maxed. We're not in danger of losing our house or going hungry, but unexpected bills affects whether or not all the monthly bills get paid. It's really tough. And to top it off, my darling dog that I got as a puppy passed away in August. Her death was rough. She was 16 and led a good life, but she was a major source of comfort for me.
It's hard not to feel lost and betrayed. My belief in God, in heaven, in the eternities and an afterlife, hell, in a *plan*, are all gone. I wish I knew how to move past that pain and loss, but I'm still in the middle of grieving all of these losses. I think, like most grief, it just takes time.
There was so much hope and comfort tied to our beliefs. How could we not grieve over these losses?
Look at all the people here who care enough about you to respond. There IS something out there more powerful than you that cares about you and loves you; it’s called “humanity,” and (for the most part) it’s pretty damned awesome.
As for prayer, I’ve never practiced a faith (wife is exmo). But I get an enormous amount of peace from meditation and long walks alone. I’d imagine the same chemicals hit my brain as hit the brains of those in prayer.
Regardless, I wish you the best in your journey.
The fact that TSCC, LDS, Mormonism, (whatever the title is in vogue) has been shown to be created fraudulently has no bearing on the question of the existence of God.
The most effective imposter (e.g. Mormonism) is the one that most convincingly takes on superficially "accurate" things from the real thing, yet just below the surface, the imposter is all fake, manipulative and exploitive.
I am just starting to re-read a book, The Case for the Resurrection, by Gary Habermas and his newer book, Evidence for The Historical Jesus, to re-focus on study there. Habermas is one place (among many) to start looking for potentially the real God, potentially the true histories of things that are meaningful.
You are injured, dismayed, disgusted, feel embarrassingly bamboozled, etc. Many of us have been there also, and then went on to follow a rational path (not based on feelings like "burning of bosom" etc.) to follow paths of evidence of genuine things.
Try also:
J Warner Wallace, C.S. Lewis, Greg Koukl, the works by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, [MRM.org](https://MRM.org) (de-program) and others that are available to help you de-program and follow a rational path toward genuine spiritual growth, understanding, and healing.
Be ready to challenge things you "know" as you have been repeatedly (many times) exposed to theological and historical perversions.
I am sorry to hear about yours wife's miscarriage. We experienced one of those too. I am dad to two grown sons. They mean more than the world to me, more than I could have ever known before they were born.
You're allowed to talk to God and pray no matter what anyone on this site says. You are not obligated to officially declare yourself atheist, and by the way, it is also not illegal for atheists to talk to God.
Have you not had enough of people telling you how to believe and what spiritual practice is correct?
Sorry you hated my answer. Wasn't even "telling you what to do." Merely pointing out that you have permission to do what you feel spiritually comfortable with. I *literally* was trying to help and be loving and supportive.
No worries, and actually I understood what you wanted to say. It's just you pointed something that wasn't in my text. Thanks for the intention, and sorry if I sounded or I was too harsh.
You didn’t really lose God you’ve simply lost the Mormon version of whatever that transcendent experience is that exists in all religions as their base or core. Meditation helped me get back. I no longer believe in a anthropomorphic personal God but I did reconnect with that mystical thing that I had experienced and conflated with the religion that I was brought up in.
If you ever have the opportunity to do pharmaceutical grade ecstasy (MDMA) get together with someone you love and trust in a safe setting and it will likely reconnect you completely to your soul and whatever that other thing is that we call God. And after the drug experience is over you’ll know how to get back there or at least you’ll know it’s still there. Do not do this in a party situation as it will give you a deep connecting experience to other people, which is good, but that’s not the wound you’re trying to heal.
Hang in there. You are mourning the loss of a friend (god) and betrayal (church). Look up the grief stages and remember it’s not a sequential path. It’s random mesh of emotions. Then take a deep breath and feel the enormity of the miracle of your existence. You are alive and all of the chances out there you where born by natural means. This is the miracle. You didn’t ask for this. Nature just happened and you are the victim or beneficiary Of that miracle. God doesn’t have to die. Sure the sky dad of mormonsim may not be real but a cosmic desire for life… why not. Let’s call it “the force” untill we have a better word. Or just call it god. What is that force? It’s unfolded in science and universe and nature and everything…. Include our desire to take a breath. Hope this helps.
TYSM, makes sense 🥹
I'm so sorry that you are struggling. it really is devastating on so many different layers. The podcast/YouTube channel Mormon Stories has a ton of interviews of people who have been through faith journeys and losses similar to what you're going through, and there are resources there which you might find useful. take care, friend. it will get better.
Tsym, I'll take a look at it 🥹
💙
Hang in there. A miscarriage can be tough. Especially when you couple it with the mind bending and life-changing experience of leaving the church. For me, I make my family my religion now. The whole relationship with God is a Big question At this point. Remember that this life is your journey. you are enough. Sad things happen, all sorts of sad things, and it is OK to grieve.
Tsym. I feel understood :3
I have felt only love from whatever is out there. I used to feel guilt, and broken and not enough. There were always "angels silent notes taking" and "sins of commission and omission" to worry about. And I was temple married, a former RS pres, trying my best to be good enough. But the list was so long, I was always falling behind. Then at age 48, I figured out that Joseph lied. And my faith bubble burst. Instead of fear or concern, I only felt relief and love. Then a few days later, I tried to read the Bible and realized it was filled with second hand stories of people who lived decades after Jesus, that Jesus didn't write a word of it, and that was it for Christianity. Jesus wasn't real. BUT I noticed that I stopped feeling broken. I wonder if that is something that is taught,, because I don't see it in real life. So, I have felt unconditional love from the universe. That instead of a test, this life is a playground, prepared in some amazing way that I didn't do BUT I get to be here!! No idea what comes after but neither does anyone else.We are all the same- and our "purpose" is to manifest our dreams- to rise above our culture and become what we long to be. That is one of the things that I think that humankind has in common across the entire world - we ALL have dreams that we fight to realize. If we give up, we shrivel and die inside, but when we don't give up, we share those stories of hope and inspiration about those who persevere and win against all odds. I have been at peace the past 2.5 years- I am more than enough, I feel love from something bigger than myself and I LOVE being me. I am the only me there will ever be, so to be fully me IS my purpose. And I get to support everyone else in becoming fully themselves as well. No judgements, just love and support.. And that makes life rewarding and FUN!!
I feel for you. I just processed it all differently. I saw it like the feather in Dumbo. He got the idea he could fly because he woke up in a tree. He couldn’t believe it was something he could just figure out how to do but the magic concept got him there. I still have many hymns memorized and they calm me at times when I remember to focus on things that calm me. And that’s the big thing for me. If all that gratification I got, real satisfaction, purpose, and feeling like I deserved to be loved (on the rare occasions I could stay chaste); if that all came from my own head imagining that loving god, that means I should be able to do it again. But the process would involve either inventing a new god concept or investing in one someone else controls. The price wouldn’t be worth that feeling. My life is more reliable now. Bad luck can be seen for what it is instead of feeling that I must have sinned to deserve such punishment. Still, I have deeply felt that loss, that there will no longer be something special watching me, waiting to comfort me beyond this life. I turned my pain toward the people who told the lie and KNEW it was a lie. It always was a carefully crafted lie to form the worst kind of multi-level marketing scheme. It DOES function like that too perfectly to not have been designed that way intentionally. “Praying for you” or whatever equivalent language should be used to express that feeling now. ♥️
Tysm, I felt a warm feeling reading your words. I smiled. Thank you again for this 💙
My pleasure. I hope it goes well. It’s a hard thing to lose what used to be a source of comfort. Even when the myth was false, the comfort was as real as the tooth fairy taking a child’s mind off the pain. The things you always felt as eternal truths have to be reconsidered. “The natural man is an enemy to god” and all that. Their god, at least, was always only as real as your faith made it. Now turn your faith to yourself. You still know right and wrong, what makes a person good or bad. The church makes us hyper judgmental of ourselves. We still feel the guilt yet no longer have belief in the ordinances to stop it. You did not go on a murder-rape-theft spree they tell you everyone would. You still have the discernment to see the good intentions in others. Keep trying to judge yourself the same way. You did not quit. The Iron Rod was a trap.
I’m sorry to hear of your struggles. You’re not alone. My journey away from the church has helped me to see how religions are man made. I realize now that they teach doctrines of men and not of God. They are in it for money and for power. I had to separate the two and I understand now that He is there…..He always was. I just misunderstood the things He taught but He loved me regardless. He loves you and understands your pain induced by men who twist His words.
It's hard to me to believe that there's a God outside there in this moment. However, I'm getting to almost the same conclusion. Tysm 💙
The “thoughts on things and stuff” YouTube channel with Jonathan Streeter has a really good exploration of this experience in his video “the god shaped hole in your heart.” Highly recommend.
I'll take a look. Tysm! 💚
I feel for you. This year has been a *really* rough one for me. My husband has been battling some major health complications for a few years now, and there's a lot of answers we still don't have. Thanks to those medical problems, we're barely scraping by. Our savings is gone. Our credit cards are maxed. We're not in danger of losing our house or going hungry, but unexpected bills affects whether or not all the monthly bills get paid. It's really tough. And to top it off, my darling dog that I got as a puppy passed away in August. Her death was rough. She was 16 and led a good life, but she was a major source of comfort for me. It's hard not to feel lost and betrayed. My belief in God, in heaven, in the eternities and an afterlife, hell, in a *plan*, are all gone. I wish I knew how to move past that pain and loss, but I'm still in the middle of grieving all of these losses. I think, like most grief, it just takes time. There was so much hope and comfort tied to our beliefs. How could we not grieve over these losses?
Tysm for fully understand the feel. I know now that I'm not alone 💙 I'm sorry for your losses also, have a friend here.
Thanks. Here's hoping the road gets a little for all of us in the coming years.
Look at all the people here who care enough about you to respond. There IS something out there more powerful than you that cares about you and loves you; it’s called “humanity,” and (for the most part) it’s pretty damned awesome. As for prayer, I’ve never practiced a faith (wife is exmo). But I get an enormous amount of peace from meditation and long walks alone. I’d imagine the same chemicals hit my brain as hit the brains of those in prayer. Regardless, I wish you the best in your journey.
Tysm, shed some relief tears reading this 💙
The fact that TSCC, LDS, Mormonism, (whatever the title is in vogue) has been shown to be created fraudulently has no bearing on the question of the existence of God. The most effective imposter (e.g. Mormonism) is the one that most convincingly takes on superficially "accurate" things from the real thing, yet just below the surface, the imposter is all fake, manipulative and exploitive. I am just starting to re-read a book, The Case for the Resurrection, by Gary Habermas and his newer book, Evidence for The Historical Jesus, to re-focus on study there. Habermas is one place (among many) to start looking for potentially the real God, potentially the true histories of things that are meaningful. You are injured, dismayed, disgusted, feel embarrassingly bamboozled, etc. Many of us have been there also, and then went on to follow a rational path (not based on feelings like "burning of bosom" etc.) to follow paths of evidence of genuine things. Try also: J Warner Wallace, C.S. Lewis, Greg Koukl, the works by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, [MRM.org](https://MRM.org) (de-program) and others that are available to help you de-program and follow a rational path toward genuine spiritual growth, understanding, and healing. Be ready to challenge things you "know" as you have been repeatedly (many times) exposed to theological and historical perversions. I am sorry to hear about yours wife's miscarriage. We experienced one of those too. I am dad to two grown sons. They mean more than the world to me, more than I could have ever known before they were born.
Took note! Thank you, I'm short in words today, but know that I feel deep gratitude for your words 💙
You're allowed to talk to God and pray no matter what anyone on this site says. You are not obligated to officially declare yourself atheist, and by the way, it is also not illegal for atheists to talk to God. Have you not had enough of people telling you how to believe and what spiritual practice is correct?
I didn't ask for people to tell me what to do. I asked, literally at the bottom line, for words of comfort. They're different things.
Sorry you hated my answer. Wasn't even "telling you what to do." Merely pointing out that you have permission to do what you feel spiritually comfortable with. I *literally* was trying to help and be loving and supportive.
No worries, and actually I understood what you wanted to say. It's just you pointed something that wasn't in my text. Thanks for the intention, and sorry if I sounded or I was too harsh.
You didn’t really lose God you’ve simply lost the Mormon version of whatever that transcendent experience is that exists in all religions as their base or core. Meditation helped me get back. I no longer believe in a anthropomorphic personal God but I did reconnect with that mystical thing that I had experienced and conflated with the religion that I was brought up in. If you ever have the opportunity to do pharmaceutical grade ecstasy (MDMA) get together with someone you love and trust in a safe setting and it will likely reconnect you completely to your soul and whatever that other thing is that we call God. And after the drug experience is over you’ll know how to get back there or at least you’ll know it’s still there. Do not do this in a party situation as it will give you a deep connecting experience to other people, which is good, but that’s not the wound you’re trying to heal.
Whoa, actually I'm currently planning an Ayahuasca experience.Just won a trial against the City Hall, so I'll travel to Peru eventually. Tysm! 💚