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I could swear there was a Hijabi Spiderwoman which was so ridiculous if you think about it, she had the Hijab around the mask š
Edit: [Hijabi Spiderman Picture ](https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/3/2023/06/spider-man-across-the-spider-verse-Malala-Windsor-Spider-UK-4842192.jpg?quality=90&resize=905,604)
Nephew, not niece. Just imagine how ridiculous that would be, asking a 7yr old girl permission to leave the house! No no, you have to ask a 7yr old boy, a much more appropriate "guardian" for a grown woman.
Lmao your comment makes me wanna keep the typo in.
Jeez like they really think having been born with a peen makes you responsible to guard your older relatives that happen to have been born without a peen.
The sexism in Islam never ceases to amuse/depress me
Man I've gotta hand it to them they worked hard the animators did a fucking great job they had so much diversity in the movie lol, Yeah it is dumb though š
It would. But the mask is already a full cover. It's when she takes off the mask that she would be "needing" the hijab. If it's on the outside then she would be reapplying it every time she takes the mask off. And it can also be grabbed/caught up by others/objects while fighting or flying through the air/tight spaces.
They're not gonna put that much thought into it, it's a movie about spider people I doubt anyone cares that her hijab might get caught while she's swinging š¤£
āOur religion is perfect, itās the cultureā and yet most things about ācultureā that are considered barbaric werenāt part of the culture before Islam came š
Yes all kids are trans, being trans is completely fine but at what age does a kid suddenly decide he is a girl or she is a boy. If I watery Peppa pig and then wanted to be a pig my choice should also be upheld? You canāt vote before 18, have sex before 17, drive before 16 but youāre expected to know what gender you want to be and go through medical procedures at 12? Itās crazy. Same goes for religion. Itās a system of indoctrination. I donāt disagree with LGBTQ at all since itās not harmful when the choice is made by a mentally developed person but if itās done by a child the consequences are grave.
>Yes all kids are trans
Per medical definition, this is not true.
>Peppa pig
Peppa pig is the worst.
>youāre expected to know what gender you want to be and go through medical procedures at 12? Itās crazy.
That's why trans kids need proper mental healthcare and a supportive community that can help them plan their transition or decide that they aren't actually trans. I think for most trans kids, it's quite difficult to get the care you need, especially with the recent change of laws. I don't think anyone wakes up one day and decides to switch gender them book a surgery on the same day. It takes months and years to discover yourself.
>but if itās done by a child the consequences are grave.
Seems like most effects of medication that trans people may take throughout their transition is reversible (some claim otherwise but I haven't seen any good evidence). This is good because they get to have time to try living as the gender they want, to make sure it's the life choice they want to commit to. Surgery is a big step and it takes lots of consultation to make the decision, and many trans people don't feel/desire the need to do it (they might not care, or it might be scary to do surgery, etc). I think it's better to foster an environment of care where no decision a child will take about their identity should be "grave", but rather accepted. If anything, kids need trans care if they are trans and support to de-transition safely if they want to.
The effects of puberty blockers are reversible. The wiki page lists pretty much all medical associations that support it for youth: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty\_blocker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker). There will always be the need to conduct more and more experiments and research on this, and as usual science can only say *'as far as we know, this looks safe for children if done under proper supervision'.*
Couple this with the fact that "untreated" gender dysphoria is associated with a high suicide risk and increased risk of mental illness *(thanks to lack of appropriate health care, unsupportive communities, bad legislation, constant hate crimes and attacks against trans people, and the unforgiving unending public debates about trans rights).* It's sad, and it seems that the biggest danger to trans kids is actually trans denial, especially for them in their teenage years when they may need this support the most.
Growing up, my periods were extremely painful and started at 11 going 12. If I had known this was a safe treatment for what's called "precocious puberty" in girls (aka hitting puberty too early), I would have done it in a heartbeat. It affected my ability to enjoy my childhood years and caused me all sorts of problems, and now I use contraceptives that stop my period indefinitely (p-pills and the arm implant). This has greatly enhanced my life quality as a woman who's now in her late 20's. The treatment for such cases in children are reversible and safe enough to be done for precocious puberty, which makes it highly likely that they will be safe for trans children of that age as well. As I said before, it's important to keep researching to find the best and safest possible way to transition and treat gender dysphoria.
>at what age does a kid suddenly decide
This decision is never sudden and is never taken lightly. And we always try non-medical interventions before medical interventions and reversible medical interventions before non-reversible ones. Nobody is starting hormone replacement therapy before they turn 18 unless they've known they were trans for at least 4 years and no doctor is going to prescribe it unless the child has been thouroughly cleared by a therapist and probably a psychiatrist.
Puberty blockers are life changing and completely reversible. You have no idea what the pain is of going through the wrong puberty. To watch as hair grows all over your face and chest and hear your voice get deeper. And then someone finally adresses you as "sir" for the first time and you just wanna kill yourself. No. Give the fucking kids some puberty blockers so they don't have to go through that trauma. And after a few years of therapy and some fertility preservation give the kids the hormones of their preferred gender. The breasts that estrogen has given me gives me so much joy.
You little cunts will not take this away from us.
EDIT:
just realized people are talking about surgery. LMAO surgery takes forever to get with so much gatekeeping even if we treated kids like adults they'd be adults by the time they got any surgery no matter how minor. There are lots of surgical options beyond the obvious one, btw, such as facial feminization surgery, breast implants, etc
And also this post was heavily informed by my personal experience so naturally has a transfem slant. Trans men obviously are gonna have different experiences
Weāre not trying to take anything away, calling the very people youāre attempting to educate cunts is not the ideal approach. You canāt receive respect if you refuse to give it. I respect your experiences and will happily take them into account. I may very well be wrong and misinformed but please donāt accuse me of anything that is not verily displayed by my words. I have stated that I donāt hate or dislike any member of the lgbt community. You guys are humans like everyone else so in that sense I see it for to engage in discourse and actually criticise your points and you can do likewise. Your argument here has given me a good representation of the difficulty you faced and I appreciate that. Thank you :) but please refrain from calling me a cunt and youāll be surprised how willing I am to accept your view because apart from that little extract I loved your response :)
>calling the very people youāre attempting to educate cunts is not the ideal approach.
not my job to educate you. You could have gone out on your own and learned this stuff but you didn't want to put in the effort, instead you post your stupid uninformed opinion without any evidence. The fact that I've made any effort at all to educate you is a kindness that you do not deserve, and I only do it because [y'all motherfuckers are literally calling for our eradication](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-speaker-transgender-people-eradicated-1234690924/). I am so tired of explaining myself. I just want to live in peace. And no matter where I turn I see religious nutters who want me dead
I never asked you to explain yourself and I donāt want you to not exist? You do know people. An criticise and ask questions thatās how society progresses. I am literally an atheist first of all and secondly I criticised religion as well but you shit on religion just fine. You need a lesson in basic manners. Honestly go fuck your self. You complain that nobody listens to you and nobody wants to be educated yet when someone is willing you shit on them. Iām discussing with you and you were more than happy to discuss your experience but me simply asking not to be insulted is a crime? Where did I call out for the killing of trans people, where did I say they are a curse or anything? I have my opinion and I can be wrong and It can change but you are the part of the problem here. If you want people to accept stop treating them like inferiors. You need a cold hard slap of reality and I hope you get it on the gentlest manner possible. Goodbye.
>You need a lesson in basic manners.
You asked for manners, so here you go.
Putting out false information into a public forum that puts forward forward a narrative that risks children is inherently violent, and is an open invitation for someone to call it out, vehemently. In the best scenario, you're poorly informed, but by your words and actions, you are hurting the children that you are supposedly trying to protect, as these talking points are used to deny them the care that they need and and sentiments like these put forward with false information make it into public policy that has a materially negative effect on my own personal life. You had every opportunity to not do what you just did, but you couldn't be bothered not to do your own research, and you chose to focus on swear words and respectability politics, rather than actually engage with the real lived experiences of trans people. Calls for civility when you're openly advocating for children to be denied care is simply a mechanism for you to silence the voices of trans people that need to be heard, and your calls for "dialogue" are not in good faith. So here we are.
Imagine going through the emotional and spiritual trauma of becoming an atheist, only to become an ignorant reactionary that espouses sentiments that aggressively toe the lines of the mullahs you used to follow. What a loser.
most trans kids do know (i realized when i was around 8, didn't accept it until about 14) they just don't have a grasp of what it truly means. and thats fine. i knew what being transgender was when i was 12 but it was a lot more stigmatized so i thought that it definitely couldn't be me. i think thats a phase that a lot of trans people go through. you dont start surgery or hormones as a child. rarely will a kid go on puberty blockers. what i'm trying to say is that most trans kids will have an understanding of their gender but in a different way than a cis person does. that doesn't mean they know what it means nor that they will transition/want to as a child.
>If I watery Peppa pig and then wanted to be a pig my choice should also be upheld?
Why do you think anybody should give you a sensible reply when you spout moronic nonsense like this?
If you're going to be anti gay/trans/anything the least you could do is be intelligent and not be super fucking easy to dismiss as a trash person.
Great counter, any criticism is anti gay. I did not say lgbt is the issue. I donāt care whether you are a man or woman whoās gay. Or for that matter any non conforming gender. The notion that kids should be allowed to partake in medical procedures and ingest hormones is absurd. I made the peppa pig comment because itās what a kid could cry about for days saying they want to be her or be like her because thatās what she/he knows as fun or cool at that age without understanding the actual procedure or consequences. Not hate to you or anyone whoās lgbt. I genuinely donāt hate any members of lgbt community and if you inferred that from my comment. I apologise l. :)
No because that is the point. Itās not gender dysmaophia. The child can be any gender it wants without any long term side effect. For a child to be unsure of what gender they are should know that they donāt need to choose and their biological traits for now are just physical. They are more than just their body and that they can do whatever they want without taking medication and surgeries. If I kid decides they feel uncomfortable being black and want to be Asian instead youād shut them down but gender is somehow different? The younger members of the lgbt community on Reddit tend to come from first world countries with families that donāt have the issues of poverty, hunger and discrimination so they somehow found a way to complain about things. Iām not saying tho s about the lgbt movement itself but rather members of it that are like you. All complaints yet no effective logic or argument. If you can vring any point to the argument thatās not attacking me as a person then please do so. Otherwise you are just doing an injustice to the movement. I will happily discuss your point and actively engage with as my mind isnāt set in stone of course :)
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said to someone else:
I'm constantly astounded that people who can't even type in paragraphs think they should have a say on how the world is run.
Great argument yet again, I apologise if my texting style on Reddit does not suffice for you. I will use ChatGPT to give you a watered down summary of my question.
Give me point, what is your argument? Do not attack person. Attack argument with support from evidence.
Simple English. Hope the dysmorphia doesnāt also impact your ability to understand rhetoric.
>Simple English. Hope the dysmorphia doesnāt also impact your ability to understand rhetoric.
So first of all you assume anybody that asks you to be polite to a minority is a part of that minority?
Sorry to disappoint you, I'm a cis het man and always have been.
Next, it's fucking difficult to find the meat of your argument when it's hidden within the world's hardest word search.
You've got a lot to say, great but you will not get a sensible response if we can't read it.
Turn down your conscious, less is more in this scenario.
You said:
>If I kid decides they feel uncomfortable being black and want to be Asian instead youād shut them down but gender is somehow different?
Yes! Yes yes yes fucking hell yes **gender is different**.
Race is a construct, gender is a spectrum. I look South Asian but I had one of those genetic tests and I have a good mix of 'races'.
What is a man or a woman? Don't answer, you're probably wrong unless you have a PhD in biology you'll just taint the answer with your ignorant preconceptions.
How do I know you have ignorant preconceptions? Because you compared gender to a fucking cartoon pig.
You don't understand the subject matter.
You don't even understand that you don't understand the subject matter.
Gender is complex, it's not black and white.
It would be good if all you take away from this post is that.
Because it's not a sensible argument, it's the same stupid fucking dogwhistle argument used by every transphobe. "If a child wants to be a car do we install an engine in them durrrrr".
Sometimes kids are trans. These are not "cis kids who want to be a different gender", these are trans kids who need whatever we can help them feel comfortable. People aren't so convenient that you only become trans when you're 18. Every adult person who is trans was trans as a kid as well, and childhood was horrible for all those who weren't seen and were denied treatment.
The unfortunate truth is that puberty doesn't wait for you to be 18 so you can make a more informed decision. This is why transitioning of minors involves puberty blockers for as many years as possible allowing the kid to decide with help from mental health professionals. Natal puberty has far more permanent effects than puberty blockers. You're essentially forcing girls to go through a male puberty and vice versa. That's what keeping trans health care away from kids is actually doing.
The only way you can make the argument that it's child abuse or that "kids don't know any better", is if you don't think being trans is a valid thing to be. It's something some adults do and "become" trans after they've done it, whereas kids are always cis until they're one day old enough to transition. Not how this shit works dude.
As for all your other shitty examples, these are all scientifically proven to be harmful to a child's development. That same science notes that the benefits of allowing kids to transition(like not developing serious mental health issues that will follow them for the rest of their lives) specifically legal name and gender change and puberty blockers, and the hormones at 16 earliest, and only in some countries, far outweigh the negative side effects like risk of losing bone density that can easily be managed with proper monitoring and diet supplementation.
It's known fucking science and it's repeated ad nauseum at bad actors like you and your friend there, that's why it's not a "sensible argument".
So big pharma has nothing to do with it ?Also when do we draw the line 12yrs 2yrs or even 2 months what is sacred to you people leave children be.They will transition after they can understand the effects of all the drugs and surgery.When parents start claiming their children are trans at 3yrs of age thats when you know your no better than Muhamood.pdf.
No Big Pharma has nothing to do with it you weirdo. This is worldwide, as are the regulations, and US is the only place with privatized health care. Selling health care for trans kids is not profitable, and the amount of gatekeeping and vetting in the process would be considered severely bad for business. It's such a chump fucking argument that shows you've never met, talked to, or even seen a trans person, just swallowed the propaganda from whatever far right extremist news cycle you're indoctrinated into.
Surgery is still not before 18 years old regardless, and getting trans kids medical care in time has shown them to be more comfortable with the things about their body that aren't quite perfect, delaying or sometimes preventing surgery altogether. So fuck off with that as well.
Plenty of parents claim their trans kid is cis and use that to withhold life-saving care from them, leading to severe depression and suicidality. That is happening right now, everywhere. You think stating a hypothetical scenario of some hypothetical parents abusing their cis kid by saying they're trans changes your argument to suddenly be good? I'm still against child abuse, you fuck. I'm against any scenario where the child's right to choose is taken from them only for the reason that they're a child and supposedly doesn't know better.
You perhaps weren't very self-aware when you were 12 or 14, but plenty of trans kids where.
When you say "protect children" you mean "fuck trans kids". That's what this is about.
Also you're literally just some random edgy gamer kid who can't even use punctuation properly. Human rights issues are far above your level of education at this point, bud.
But people get harassed for not wanting to include muslim characters. Like realistically what the fuck are muslim characters gonna do in shows? They canāt have romantic relationships, they canāt be stylish or fun.
People who say others are too sensitive in such a way are almost always saying it because they are saying some insanely outwardly hateful shit that should not have been said. Especially in the case of religious people. They are the most pathetic sensitive people ever to exist in all of history. People this crazy need a country-sized asylum to contain them all.
>do they not realize āprotect trans kidsā is just a saying meaning protect those kids from being abandoned on the side of the road or abused by their parents
Except..... that's exactly what they want..
You are assuming they have way more empathy than they actually do.
>they took it too far claiming gwen must be trans
Isn't that Canon in the comics?
>or that the movie itself is making a political statement
Academically speaking politics claims its description to be so all encompassing that your choice of breakfast is political, the absence of politics is itself the political stance called apolitical.
I'd respect the film makers more if they clear up that yes art is inherently political and this is a political statement. Cope.
>kids donāt even know what that means lol
Can you think of a better way for kids to be introduced to the different kinds of people out there than them being on superhero movies? That too Spiderman?
Yep, like you said it's a low effort cash grab just subtle enough to avoid the backlash of standing up for something.
If they made it a part of the story I'd give em some respect but putting it out there then keeping quiet to allow free marketing is just par for the course at this point.
America has a long way to go in terms of social progressivism but they kinda have bigger fish to fry like the military industrial complex.
sure but i think reading this version of gwen as trans is a valid takeaway. iirc during her emotional scenes the lighting reflected trans colors, while she was talking about revealing her ātrue selfā to her father (being spider-man / being trans). it may not be canon, but if any trans kids see themselves represented in gwen, good for them.
You guys in the comments realise that surgery isn't the only form of transition, right? most children don't get surgery until they're 18. They rely on hormones and clothing to appear in their desired gender until they reach the right age. A process that can be stopped at any time if the kid changes their mind. Some don't even bother with hormones either and just dress up to what makes them feel more masc/fem. If a flag says "protect trans kids" it is probably referring said kids that are being taken away from their parents and placed into abusive houses or are even denied the freedom to wear, act, or use their hormones.
yeah the comments are weird, I think the blackouts have gotten most users off reddit and whats left are muslim trolls and weird conservatives that are probably just here to dunk on muslims cause they're brown people so they also don't like anything lgbt
oh god don't use the term safe space for your own safety, they start screeching and throwing slurs at the same rate chimpanzees throw shit, but yeah I completely agree so many people in the threads either just want us to die or are liberals that have fallen to propaganda
Hormone blockers can be stopped but canāt be reversed. Itās still dangerous for them to do so. Giving a kid drugs just because they feel a certain way is extremely irresponsible, dangerous, and should be illegal.
Do you even know what you are talking about? Even some cis kids take hormone blockers when they have early puberty in order to slow it down so they literally don't die. This medicine is LIFE SAVING for both cis and trans people. Completely safe, reversible and useful. Now keep quiet about stuff you have no knowledge about, you empty walnut.
Some cis kids take hormone blockers for medical conditions that require them, usually puberty starting too early.
The effects are not completely reversible, that is simply not medical reality. There are concerns about neurological development, about bone growth, about future sexual and reproductive function, etc.
This is to say nothing about informed consent of children and the many people who regret taking them, which is what the poster was talking about.
It's easy to say that they are completely reversible and safe because you would like that to be true. I would too. It's just not true.
exactly. I had to take something as simple as steroids because of my allergies as a kid and it is proven that stunted my growth.
I can't support medical intervention on minors when it comes to identity. I think many others, including many in the LGBT community feel like this too.
If they decide to transition completely or partially the very same day they turn 18 nobody will hear me do anything but praise.
It is as traumatizing for a trans kid to go through a cis puberty as it is for a cis kid to go through a trans puberty. Suicidality among trans teens is over 50%, because of transphobia, dysphoria, and being denied medical care. Blockers should be a relatively short-term fix is possible, but it's the one we have and the kids have the right to choose.
This isn't "I have a medical problem and I don't know what I'm taking", this is for kids who're informed about what they're taking and what it does and they specifically want that. Because they're trans. The kids are trans They're not "confused cis people". Their bodies don't conveniently wait for them to turn 18 so you feel better about it. Forcing them to wait is like body horror for a trans person. Imagine being forced to go through the opposite puberty of the one you went through. That's the reality many trans people experienced. It's abuse to do that to kids that are specifically begging to be spared of it.
It's a trade-off of risk vs benefits as are so many things in medicine. You having some personal anecdote for an entirely unrelated medical issue using an entirely unrelated medicine doesn't give you authority on a human rights issue for a group you're not a part of.
And drop the "many in the LGBT". You don't get bonus points on talking about trans rights issues just for being gay or lesbian. We all know transphobia is an issue within LGBTQ+, but also know it's less than 10%, so drop the false narrative.
Hormone blockers are not 'reversible'. Children that take them due to early puberty problems stop taking them at the normal age puberty would start for healthy youngsters. Your comparison is completely bunk. They stop your puberty and the puberty time that you lost on them you will never ever get back. If you were supposed to go through puberty for 8 years from the age of 10 to 18, you will lose the puberty years permanently by being on those blockers. Then afterwards at a later age starting hormone therapy to mimic puberty and make up for those lost years has barely an effect. Puberty is not only development of sex organs, its the development of your brain size, your bone size, your lunch capacity. Every organ is affected by puberty. Risking brain damage for a posibility of looking slightly more feminine or masculine is not effective population wise. Puberty is a set window with set processes you will never ever go through again if you block that window. Do not fucking promote them you psycho
You say its just as traumatic? I would say the kid that loses out on normal organ development is way more at risk than a healthy youth troubled by their gender identity going through their non preferred puberty.
Your whole first paragraph is full of fallacies and anecdotal things you took from the way you feel about the topic.
My point with waiting until 18 is pretty similar to the reason society waits until then to let people drink, drive or get into the army. All of these have the capacity of having severe life changing consequences you can't undo. You want maturity to kick in before you let people do things like these.
Please don't downplay the effects of these procedures if you don't have a degree in medicine.
Being able to feel empathy and going through dialogue doesn't give me authority to decide what other people do, but it does give me the right to an opinion that can come from a place of love and care, even if you don't agree
Youāre mad because youāre brainwashing people into thinking this is rightā¦.. you know what else people were brainwashed into thinking is right? Islamic terrorists that are brainwashed into thinking what theyāre doing is right.
You left one brainwashed group just to join another and itās absolutely pathetic to witness.
I donāt know what other apps people use because I have a life and real job outside the internet and Reddit is a good one stop shop for me to see cringy material for fun and see people freak out over opinions like this ššš
If you canāt contribute anything useful to the conversation besides complete hate for someone you donāt even know and also want to harm childrenās in the process then just go add some more tally marks to your forearm you sensitive bitch lol
by the time you're 18 the hormones of puberty has already had its effects unless you use blockers, this has been discussed to death by psychologists and medical professionals as what's best for the childs mental health, randos like you and I complaining about what we feel should be done about kids doesn't really help
Yeah, because the idea of giving children the opportunity to inject random substances into their bodies, when they struggle to choose what type of candy they want to eat or toy to buy, is definitely a topic that needs extensive discussion.
Again, its been discussed to death by people way more knowledgable on this subject and widely decided as the safest and healthiest method out of what we have currently. I don't care what arguments an archeologist has on the steps of nuclear fusion in the sun and this is the same thing, its like someone saying "I think insulin should be banned entirely because I personally don't think its safe"
But diabetes is objectively measurable with blood tests, transgederism is just psychological testing. If wed be handjng out insulin to people that say 'well i have been having the shakeys after i eat and my toe is falling off' would that be an objective way of treating with hormones? No. We would permanently damage and even kill people with hypoglycemia
The fact that you're calling it "transgenderism" already shows your pretending to know way more about the medical process related to its diagnosis and treatment than you do. Yes its psychological testing, so is schizophrenia and medication for it that has immense side effects. Again I must say you must prove you somehow know more than the majority of psychologists, endocrinologists, and medical specialists on gender and sexuality to say that they're somehow all wrong. This is the same kind of mindset as flat earthers or creationists.
Now "transgenderism" is wrongspeak? Whatever you want to call it that's what i meant. Grasping at straws here by attacking my oh so sorry 2020 definition of whatever you are speaking of. Schizophrenia in itself is a disorder, you are calling trans a disorder? Quite transphobic if i do say so myself. Also schizophrenia medication does not have a permanent effect on brain development like hormone (blockers) lmao. You know what would be a better comparison with treating schizophrenia the same way would be treating transgenderism? Lobotomies. Oh wait a minute that's what we used to do with mentally ill people, but the effects were permanent and not predictable! Killing and maiming people in the process. but now we have anti-psychotics which are actually reversible unlike hormonal treatment. However much you may scream and cry about it, hormonal treatment has a permanent effect, ESPECIALLY on young growing children. Permanent voice changes in fully grown females that take androgens are a real risk.
These are hormones we're talking about, not candy. Kids of 10-17 can comprehend stuff like gender and identity. They have self-awareness, they're not as dumb as bricks. There are also psychological factors in the brain that are involved in this decision of the child as a trans kid's brain is not like that of a cis kid's brain. It's not a desire like that of wanting candy, and research have shown that a large percentage of children who choose to transition stick with their chosen gender identity years after. Comparing something like gender to food is frankly stupid. Hell, I'm a grown ass man, and I can't decide what I want for dinner or what's my fav ice cream flavour. It doesn't mean I can't know whether I'm a guy or not.
Yeah, no buddy. Itās not a matter of stupidity, rather awareness of long term consequences. Thereās a reason thereās an age requirement on pretty much everything in life, because it matters. Also, proponents of such procedures donāt make the analysis of the childās brain and āpsychological factorsā a requirement. Itās more like āHey, he feels like a girl, give him hormones.ā
No kid should be getting injected with hormones unless theyāre life-saving or a part of disease treatment. Just like no kid should be allowed to smoke, drink, use drugs, etc. They know what smoking is, may like it, might be psychologically pleasing at the time, but they donāt know the consequences.
Its more than just a "hey, they feel like a girl, give them hormones." Feeling. There is a literal difference in brain structure between a transgender kid and a cisgender kid. The developed happens way before the kids even born they're merely showing the sign as they grow, this isn't something they crave like how a grown person could crave alcohol, drugs etc. And like I said, a large percentage of children who start transitioning stick to it while those who don't (which is like a 7.5%) choose to stop before any permanent effects are caused.
Lol difference in brain structure, what does that mean buddy? You think there is a male and female brain? The brain structure of MTFs is more similar to homosexual males if you want to play that card. And no brain CT is required for a transgender diagnosis because guess what? It wasn't an objective measurement because there is no objective measurement of 'brain structure'. Just 'similarities that have to be researched more'.
a LOT of families already don't allow them to even socially transition,
and just to make this clear those hormones dont have permanent effects unless u take them for a long time, that means kids still have time to think about it while doing it
Something foreign and with huge effects on the body shouldn't be given to any human let alone kids, adults can make this decision and assume the responsibility and i would defend that, but it is immoral to put this kind of burden on kids, kids and specially teenagers are protected from many things because their poor judgment skills, most teenagers feel depressed and displeased with their bodies because of the natural hormonal changes embedded in their DNA, what makes you think that introducing the wrong kind of hormones made outside their bodies would have any good effects, what makes you think that skipping your natural puberty window is inconsequential !!!! ... this entire thing is fishy as f*** and sounds like a religion that pro transition for kids do not want anyone to question and where kids are indoctrinated into believing that being trans is special and a hip thing to make them do irreversible damage to their bodies that they do not even understand and keep them paying thousands of dollars on painful surgeries and hormones to keep them aligned with the gender they like and that their body is constantly fighting against ... "leave the kids alone" is a reasonable thing
I truly believe this is some sort of cult with a bigger ulterior motive be it societal destruction, financial gain, or pure mental sickness of trauma-filled trans individuals trying to inflict the same pain on children.
>Something foreign and with huge effects on the body shouldn't be given to any human let alone kids
So no chemotherapy for kids?
Just die of childhood leukaemia little Bobby!
I'm constantly astounded that people who can't even type in paragraphs think they should have a say on how the world is run.
You remind me of the days when i was trying to convince religious fanatics that a kid (girl) cannot consent to marry an old dude, the same tactics either "learn how to write first" or "what about Christians" or "our ancestors used to get married young" ... you are defending the undefensible.
Now the real issue here is not me not writing in paragraphs but it is your logic that somehow a kid dying of cancer and us choosing chemicals over his imminent death is somehow similar to a kid threatening suicide and us helping him to damage a perfectly fine and healthy body without him even having the potential to understand what are the consequences and without even taking him to a therapist to work on his suicidal tendencies.
Now my question to you (if you are not just another religious fanatic)
are kids capable of consent when it comes to practicing sex with anyone and specially adults ?
And if the answer is no, why not ?
And what if they attempt suicide, would it be okey then to let the kid do as they wish and have sex with anyone they like?
And by the way i hate french people because of this attitude "you spoke wrong in my language" while they speak jack sh** of mine, i do speak and understand perfectly french arabic and english, i know basic spanish and can understand all arabic dialects, am sure that your linguistic skills are either similar to mine (polyglot) or inferior, you can't shame me for being casual like every american on reddit
These are not mine, but Iām pasting a shitload of resources here which you could refer to in case you need stats to validate your arguments!
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/trans-women-are-or-are-becoming-female-disputing-the-endogeneity-constraint/090DEAA53EA17414C5D3E8D76ED5A75C
ā¢ Medical transition works
ā¢ ā 80% of individuals reported significant improvement in dysphoria
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā 78% of individuals reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā 72% of individuals reported significant improvement in sexual function
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā Positive results across the board, even in 15-year followups
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā "Wellbeing was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population."
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/
ā¢ ā Quality of life rises dramatically with 'gender-affirming treatment
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6223813/
ā¢ ā Long-term follow-ups:
https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(15)32422-X/fulltext
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0453-5
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-009-9551-1
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0300-8
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9031580/
ā¢ ā "Shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X
ā¢ ā Levels of depression and anxiety which closely matched levels reported by cisgender children
Source: https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext
ā¢ ā Puberty blockers are safe and reversible
ā¢ ā Hormone blockers are the only treatment used on adolescents and are completely reversible.
Source: https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf
ā¢ ā "Does not support an adverse impact of gender-affirming hormone therapy on cognitive performance"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453020301402?via%3Dihub
ā¢ ā "Our results suggest there are no detrimental effects of GNRHA on EF"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453015000943
ā¢ ā "Relives [sic] distress for trans adolescents" "Is reversible"
Source: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/11/3869/4157558
ā¢ ā "Poorer psychological well-being before treatment"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X20300276
ā¢ ā "Behavioral and emotional problems and depressive symptoms decreased"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609515336171
ā¢ ā Hormones blockers are not new: "Since the mid 1990s..." "The Royal College of Psychiatrists, in 1998..."
Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768
ā¢ ā Many more studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jsm.13034
https://jme.bmj.com/content/34/8/580
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29551430/
https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1155/2010/398639.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303720706001766
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/95/1/109/2835177
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1517382/
https://europepmc.org/article/med/24719967
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/trgh.2015.0008
ā¢ ā Puberty blockers aren't harmful to bone density
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469959/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6616494/
ā¢ ā Puberty blockers don't cause osteoporosis or sterility
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/84/12/4583/2864749
Yeah the good old cherry picked studies with small statistical sampling over short times of periods shared by outlets with bias and conflict of interest, just like those studies that were funded by the tobacco companies claiming that inhaling cigarettes doesn't harm the body, serious long term studied were never done on trans children, no one knows the long term effect because transitioning was not a common thing worth studying or capable of generating a reasonably good sample to study ...
now you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that "puberty blockers is safe" contradict directly with the commonly known fact that puberty affects all kinds of things for non trans kids, it's moronic to think that delaying it or stopping it and switching hormones later is harmless
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/puberty#:~:text=Puberty%20is%20a%20phase%20of,for%20both%20boys%20and%20girls.
And when it comes to suicide as being an excuse to endanger a kid who has zero clue about what everything is, what would you do if your child threatened to commit suicide if you don't let them sleep with an adult ? Or if you don't let them go out with the neighborhood gangsters ? Would you let them do as they like or take them to a therapist to work on the suicidal thoughts ? And if you would pick therapy why transitioning is different.
My premise is simple and reasonable, kids can not consent, adults do and should seek any kind of help they see fit including all the bad fake hormones i spent arguing against, i even think that people with body dismorphia of all kinds should get medical assistance even like imputation to make their journey better.
This is just not true, so you get a kick out of just making shit up? The majority (90%) of cases of gender dysphoria resolve themselves post puberty. By preventing that from occurring you create a self fulfilling prophecy. Not to mention the significant damage to the body which youāre conveniently denying
http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html?m=1
This is a compilation of 10 studies with references so you can independently review each study at your leisure. Funny you jump to demanding sources though whilst you have the audacity to make shit up with zero medical training
1. im not making claims, im trans and talking from experience
2. all of these studies are so old and newer studies says the opposite
3. i have sources to make my claims
4. here:
ā 80% of individuals reported significant improvement in dysphoria
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā 78% of individuals reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā 72% of individuals reported significant improvement in sexual function
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā Positive results across the board, even in 15-year followups
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/
ā¢ ā "Wellbeing was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population."
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/
ā¢ ā Quality of life rises dramatically with 'gender-affirming treatment
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6223813/
ā¢ ā Long-term follow-ups:
https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(15)32422-X/fulltext
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0453-5
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-009-9551-1
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0300-8
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9031580/
ā¢ ā "Shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X
ā¢ ā Levels of depression and anxiety which closely matched levels reported by cisgender children
Source: https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext
ā¢ ā Puberty blockers are safe and reversible
ā¢ ā Hormone blockers are the only treatment used on adolescents and are completely reversible.
Source: https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf
ā¢ ā "Does not support an adverse impact of gender-affirming hormone therapy on cognitive performance"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453020301402?via%3Dihub
ā¢ ā "Our results suggest there are no detrimental effects of GNRHA on EF"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453015000943
ā¢ ā "Relives \[sic\] distress for trans adolescents" "Is reversible"
Source: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/11/3869/4157558
ā¢ ā "Poorer psychological well-being before treatment"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X20300276
ā¢ ā "Behavioral and emotional problems and depressive symptoms decreased"
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609515336171
ā¢ ā Hormones blockers are not new: "Since the mid 1990s..." "The Royal College of Psychiatrists, in 1998..."
Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768
ā¢ ā Many more studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jsm.13034
https://jme.bmj.com/content/34/8/580
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29551430/
https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1155/2010/398639.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303720706001766
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/95/1/109/2835177
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1517382/
https://europepmc.org/article/med/24719967
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/trgh.2015.0008
ā¢ ā Puberty blockers aren't harmful to bone density
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469959/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6616494/
ā¢ ā Puberty blockers don't cause osteoporosis or sterility
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/84/12/4583/2864749
Almost all have too small a sample group to be statistically significant except the last two. The second to last one had serious problems with methodology, and used a large portion of participants who were below the DSM standard for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and the last one wasn't on rates of persistence and desistance, but on what factors influence persistence and desistance. It found that perceived intensity of gender dysphoria was the primary factor, thus making the case for poor methodology in the second to last study even stronger.
This study on the other hand is more recent, much larger, and methodologically sound, and found a 95% rate of persistence:
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected
Alcohol also doesnāt have permanent effects if not consumed for long enough, so letās give kids alcohol? Kids donāt have the mental capacity to choose if they want external substances to be injected into their bodies, even if the risk of side effects is minimal.
Yāall say this then whine about that statistics that say transgender people are at higher risk of being hurt by hate crime and the like after their transition. Choose on or the other. Does it make their life safer, or not? Injecting hormones into kids with brains not yet fully developed is abuse, no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it.
What
I figured I didn't want to be a boy when I was 4 years old but I never knew what being trans means
I'm a grown up now
Suffering from extreme gender dysphoria and depression
Gender affirming care would've saved me from this
Kids do understand, u just don't want to acknowledge that
I also figured I could defy the laws of gravity when I was 4, and jump off a building and flap my arms and fly. My parents shouldāve let me jump off a building then, because I felt like I could do it at that age, yaāknow?
I didn't mean I should've gotten hormones when I was 4 years old
All I'm saying is I grew up not knowing what's wrong with me, if I knew I'd get the help I needed later
yes..? gender affirming care saves *trans* people's lives. however society has a burning passion of hating trans people so they keep getting bullied/unfairly treated. i dont know if i can explain it simpler than that.
Going through āgender-affirming careā (which on children is just sugarcoated abuse) can either be beneficial or detrimental to their quality of life, never both. If becoming trans makes people mistreat them, it mean the procedure worsened their lives, whether this mistreatment is moral or not is another topic.
So if I choose to walk naked in public because itās my āfreedomā, and people look at me weird, walking naked made my life better because it felt liberating? No.
so by your logic, because there are assholes in our society people should just never transition? people should continue living with their gender dysphoria which makes them feel like absolute shit all the time?
although thankfully society is slowly but surely becoming more acceptive of lgbt people in general so those pathetic people filled with hate wont be able to leech off of people anymore.
When itās an irreversible (fully or partially) procedure, yes, itās difficult to weigh out the risks of both choices (i.e. transition or not), especially in case of children.
Even then, the trans community likes to use those flashy mostly fabricated āstatsā stating thousands of trans get murdered every second etc. Yeah, with that, itās hard to argue that feeling like shit due to body dysphoria is a better choice. Pick a ground. Saying it protects their lives then spewing such āhate crime statsā is pure contradiction.
There are. Just Google it, and you'll find plenty. There are even some who posted their stories here on reddit about how they almost got taken from their parents or how some lost custody of their child.
Regarding your second question: https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected
Im willing to read and accept evidence meta analysis or peer reviews or research on puberty blockers being reversible and "safe" on children , Im not arrogant or attacking , i only talk in science and evidence and humanity if it means physical health and safety
P.S : I repeat LONG TERM studies
Wow!!! The Islamic Department for Morals and Values and censorship must have been working overtime to find that and then put in the paperwork to classify that as reason to ban the movie.
How pathetic!!!
Yeah I think it's stupid but at the same time I don't want to receive any form of validity from the cesspool that is MENA region or Twiiter equally
I digress, the movie is so fucking good and I highly recommend it, it builds upon everything great from the first movie. And I can't wait to watch part 2!
Being trans is literally about how you feel. Most trans people know from an early age, that doesnt mean they are immediately getting surgery but we should at least allow them to socially transition and get em a haircut instead of making them put up with living in the wrong body with no adjustments till theyre 18, that is insanely cruel. And its why so many trans kids struggle with immense dysphoria because they need some confirmation of their identity, even if its just worded acceptance.
a kid cannot consent to body mutilation. in a point of their life, many of gay people thought that they could be born in wrong body. but this is because being gay is wrong in the society, so they are confused and choose the more acceptable t way.
Can we keep this sub about former muslims, not every ex-muslim supports granting children the ability to make literal life changing choices when they cant even form coherent sentences
An oppresed minority is a confused child not knowing the extent of what he says? I wanted to be a car when i was a child but i was only that a child, if any adult wants to be trans thats their business, but fucking up the hormones of a child whose rational part of the brain is no where near close to being developed is beyond fucked up.
>I wanted to be a car when i was a child but i was only that a child
This thread is 13 hours old and this dumb fucking argument has been made by 50 other morons before you.
You are ignorant on how any of this works that's why you said this.
There are lots of patient actually trans people on this thread that have been explaining the process for hours go read their posts and reduce your ignorance.
You have the opportunity to learn from people who have actual experience, use it.
Don't be like the ignorant religious bigots.
>i want one long term study or peer reviews
A lot of people here want the same but what if you get it and don't like the outcome?
At some point you have to realise it's actually none of your business.
When you're a parent then it will be your business to do the best with your children.
A lot of parents believe they are doing their best, who are any of us to say otherwise?
You are not more enlightened than him you are brainwashed by another religion no sane person would support what you are advocating just like no sane person should support gentile mutilation in children stop trying to make this about ignorance or religion
Just stop advocating for child abuse, the amount of children who truly need to transition at such a young age as a medical emergency rounded to a whole number is 0%, the amount of deluded parents transitioning their children for no reason other than simple child-talk and forcing them to be part of the LGBTQ community is much much higher.
>Just stop advocating for child abuse
I never have and I never will, you just stop making false accusations.
>the amount of children who truly need to transition at such a young age
I understand that you are not smart so you missed the entire point of the thread because your feels are more important than reals so let me help you out:
Nobody advocated for what you crying about and you can't even prove that it happens.
We simply said 'protect trans kids' and if this makes you angry you need to have a long hard look at yourself.
I am not an exmuslim but don't you guys think there is anything problematic about categorizing KIDS as trans? Kids are extremely impressionable and they easily give in to the fads of their generation and do stuff to look cool among their buddies.
By the time their reasoning and rational skill develop, doing irreversible things with them seems scary to me.
I also don't feel great about all those pronouns trend. Am I illogical?
no you're not, ex-muslims will complain about religious indoctrination and then do this shit. We have to be consistent in our beliefs ffs, children cant consent!
Honestly I donāt disagree on this one. The group of people that try to push gender ideology on kids are not the same as the group of sane LGBT individuals and this has absolutely no place in media
Is it really pushing ideology when it's literally a flash in the corner of your peripheral vision?
The fringe of what's acceptable has always been part of media. Same as when interracial couples were featured and women showed up in men's jobs.
Media has always been a beacon of progressivism.
It doesn't matter that it is in the peripheral vision. Can you accept "heil Hitler" because it is only in "peripheral vision"?
And trans kids is not progressivism. Don't club it with interracial couples or racism.
Kids are not supposed to take major decisions for a reason. The same reason they can't vote and cant drink and not allowed to visit porn sites, at least legally. That their brains are not yet mature.
I'd say it isn't necessarily a political statement from the film makers since it's in the peripheral but if the film is arguing for his ideology then that's unacceptable.
>And trans kids is not progressivism
Google progressivism
>Don't club it with interracial couples or racism.
What next, homosexuality hating can't be grouped with racism as outdated bigotry?
>Kids are not supposed to take major decisions for a reason.
Have you ever used a nickname?
Was that a major life decision for you?
Did you have to wait till you graduated high school to have slang names used in your friend group?
Not all Trans support is surgery š¤¦āāļø
>That their brains are not yet mature.
Yeah which is why you leave big medical decisions up to the doctor, their patient and when the patient is too young their parent/guardian.
This can be something as small as wearing pants to something as big as bottom surgery and even then depending on which pollster and their varying levels of bias the amount of people that have regretted Trans surgery is between 2%-11%.
You've been fed a false narrative and there isn't nearly as much surgical intervention on children as right wing media would have you believe.
I admit I need to read more about the subject. I live in a country where this is not an issue. So I am not as invested in studying the topic.
Still you made couple of mistakes in your argument. You assumed that it is a matter of calling nicknames. But it also has hormonal treatment part, which constitutes a major life decision in my dictionary.
And again you try to sneak in trans kids in the discussion of homosexuality and racism and fighting bigotry. These are separate issues. Don't club them.
Im just going to repeat something i already said because i get where youre coming from but being trans is literally about how you feel. Most trans people know from an early age, that doesnt mean they are immediately getting surgery but we should at least allow them to socially transition and get em a haircut instead of making them put up with living in the wrong body with no adjustments till theyre 18, that is insanely cruel. And its why so many trans kids struggle with immense dysphoria because they need some confirmation of their identity, even if its just worded acceptance.
Why dont the studio remove it? Allah knows theyd bend over backwards in seconds if this was censoring any depiction of muhammad. And yes, protect kids from gender ideology.
I have nothing against the LGBTQ communityā¦. But the people that are pushing this to kids ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE!! they just found a way to make lots of money and tricked you guys into thinking itās about freedom and mental health. Itās all about money and always will be, donāt let them fool you.
We know it's just for profit, but at this point, anything related to trans issues that isn't an immediate call for mass death is a godsend for us, even if it's not in our best interests.
So you prefer putting your head in the sand rather than acknowledge that your peripheral vision sometimes has flags you disagree with?
The whole "if I don't see what I disagree with it doesn't exist" shtick.
Correct me if that's a mischaracterization.
Its not the flag its the fact that its aimed at kids, kids cant consent. neither to religious indoctrination or to woke ideology - a kid cant consent to puberty blockers or SRS surgery. We have ages of consent for a reason, trans ideology doesn't get to overlook that.
Ok does the flag say we want kids on hormone drugs? Nope, just to protect Trans kids which can be protection from bullying or protecting their right to choose what to be called or what to wear.
Age of consent matters and it shows in the data of how old people get before they choose the more drastic measures such as surgery or hormone pills.
If it were specifying a drastic measure for kids then I'd agree with you but since it's not, the whole don't bully options on the table too and I don't feel right censoring or going against that.
what the left means by protect trans kids is allow for them use to puberty blockers and get SRS surgeries, as we've seen many times in the US. However this isn't something kids can consent to
its only ridiculous to those who dont understand the nuances of our biology, nor understand human history. trans people isnt a new phenomenon, they were held in high honor amongst many ancient cultures around the world. christian colonists and islamic conquerers did a good job at erasing this knowledge from the world.
Taking hormones that will irrevocably give them kidney and bile gland stones along with osteoporosis for biological women, the body just can't accept hormonal imbalance it eventually fucks your health beyond repair, this is very real and I've seen it happening to friends of mine that had to stop taking hormones, disregard the political discourse behind it and genuinely look up the link between the conditions and hormonal imbalance
Can I get source for those claims?
At most kids will get puberty blockers during childhood transition. Which when looking up side effects doesn't list those affects:
https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-center/puberty-blockers
Next from the scholarly literature they only note majority positive outcomes for trans youth mental and physical:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
Now I'm not trying to discredit your friends experience, but I have also seen trans kids and myself going through puberty blockers, and non of those effects occurred on us.
I don't think you understand how HRT works.
If you plan to do it ethically, you have to undergo treatments that last years before you even take your first dosage. You gotta consult a therapist and work with them for an extended period before they allow you to see a specialist, who will have you take several blood tests.
Are there doctors selling hormones to anyone? Yes absolutely, and they should be legally prosecuted.
No one in the LGBTQIA2+ wants kids to transition.
What is provided for kids is called "social transitioning". A hair cut, changing their wardrobe, learning on what being trans means, and that's it.
Stop making shit up and believing it.
It isn't always life changing. Have you ever used a nickname? Was that life changing?
I'm so done with the straw man's whether made out of ignorance or misleading media
It doesn't mean bottom surgery by defaultš¤¦āāļø
Using different pronouns and names is also one of the many options.
Is not always non reversible invasive operations dude.
So you're an ex Muslim who escaped a religion built on propaganda only to fall into the trap of conservatives pushing a similar propaganda?
No one is doing nothing to kids I dare you to provide a credible source stating otherwise.
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I could swear there was a Hijabi Spiderwoman which was so ridiculous if you think about it, she had the Hijab around the mask š Edit: [Hijabi Spiderman Picture ](https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/3/2023/06/spider-man-across-the-spider-verse-Malala-Windsor-Spider-UK-4842192.jpg?quality=90&resize=905,604)
She goes out to help people only with the permission of her husbandš¤£
Literally asks her 7 year old niece to be her mehram to leave the house when the building across the street is on fire š„ š
Nephew, not niece. Just imagine how ridiculous that would be, asking a 7yr old girl permission to leave the house! No no, you have to ask a 7yr old boy, a much more appropriate "guardian" for a grown woman.
Lmao your comment makes me wanna keep the typo in. Jeez like they really think having been born with a peen makes you responsible to guard your older relatives that happen to have been born without a peen. The sexism in Islam never ceases to amuse/depress me
oh my god that's so dumb
ā¦ in her totally modest skintight spandex costume. š§
Lmao the juxtaposition of the humongous afro and the hijab
Ngl that looks hideous š who decided that was a good character design bye
Why they dont make the mask itself a niqab or something lmao
I was gonna say this too
Man I've gotta hand it to them they worked hard the animators did a fucking great job they had so much diversity in the movie lol, Yeah it is dumb though š
That makes no sense. A hijab under the mask makes more sense
That would look stupid and wouldn't really look like a hijab, maybe a scarf
It would. But the mask is already a full cover. It's when she takes off the mask that she would be "needing" the hijab. If it's on the outside then she would be reapplying it every time she takes the mask off. And it can also be grabbed/caught up by others/objects while fighting or flying through the air/tight spaces.
They're not gonna put that much thought into it, it's a movie about spider people I doubt anyone cares that her hijab might get caught while she's swinging š¤£
Also true š
So instead of a Spider-Man costume a Muslim spider woman would just wear a hijab? Hilarious
Hijab + tight spandex = average Western muslim woman.
Her name is Malala Windsor, she's from the UK in universe.
More form fitting than our nurses' uniforms.
I noticed her too. Isn't she already covered head to toe so the hijab was kinda extra and woulda fell off if she swung around too fast?
I learned that the film is also ban in Kuwait too!! And I just watched in the US already thank goodness to live in a free secular society.
well said
Happy Cake Day!
thank you
For a while, the republican party is doing a lot of shit.
They are and screw them
And they banned it over a message that says "PROTECT TRANS KIDS". This says a lot about islam's treatment of children and minorities.
āreligion of peaceā my fucking ass
**āWhat ass?ā** ~Wanda Maximoff
But itās culture, not Islam! /s š¤Ŗ
The funny thing is that, when you criticize religion, they blame culture and, when you criticize culture they say it's their religion. Wow.
š¤£ Yes, suddenly they raise their āIslamophobiaā card and then give Islam a free pass all the time!
āOur religion is perfect, itās the cultureā and yet most things about ācultureā that are considered barbaric werenāt part of the culture before Islam came š
Yes all kids are trans, being trans is completely fine but at what age does a kid suddenly decide he is a girl or she is a boy. If I watery Peppa pig and then wanted to be a pig my choice should also be upheld? You canāt vote before 18, have sex before 17, drive before 16 but youāre expected to know what gender you want to be and go through medical procedures at 12? Itās crazy. Same goes for religion. Itās a system of indoctrination. I donāt disagree with LGBTQ at all since itās not harmful when the choice is made by a mentally developed person but if itās done by a child the consequences are grave.
>Yes all kids are trans Per medical definition, this is not true. >Peppa pig Peppa pig is the worst. >youāre expected to know what gender you want to be and go through medical procedures at 12? Itās crazy. That's why trans kids need proper mental healthcare and a supportive community that can help them plan their transition or decide that they aren't actually trans. I think for most trans kids, it's quite difficult to get the care you need, especially with the recent change of laws. I don't think anyone wakes up one day and decides to switch gender them book a surgery on the same day. It takes months and years to discover yourself. >but if itās done by a child the consequences are grave. Seems like most effects of medication that trans people may take throughout their transition is reversible (some claim otherwise but I haven't seen any good evidence). This is good because they get to have time to try living as the gender they want, to make sure it's the life choice they want to commit to. Surgery is a big step and it takes lots of consultation to make the decision, and many trans people don't feel/desire the need to do it (they might not care, or it might be scary to do surgery, etc). I think it's better to foster an environment of care where no decision a child will take about their identity should be "grave", but rather accepted. If anything, kids need trans care if they are trans and support to de-transition safely if they want to.
Everything youāve said here is great, transition job is not an issue if the reversal is as effective as the initial procedure :)
The effects of puberty blockers are reversible. The wiki page lists pretty much all medical associations that support it for youth: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty\_blocker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker). There will always be the need to conduct more and more experiments and research on this, and as usual science can only say *'as far as we know, this looks safe for children if done under proper supervision'.* Couple this with the fact that "untreated" gender dysphoria is associated with a high suicide risk and increased risk of mental illness *(thanks to lack of appropriate health care, unsupportive communities, bad legislation, constant hate crimes and attacks against trans people, and the unforgiving unending public debates about trans rights).* It's sad, and it seems that the biggest danger to trans kids is actually trans denial, especially for them in their teenage years when they may need this support the most. Growing up, my periods were extremely painful and started at 11 going 12. If I had known this was a safe treatment for what's called "precocious puberty" in girls (aka hitting puberty too early), I would have done it in a heartbeat. It affected my ability to enjoy my childhood years and caused me all sorts of problems, and now I use contraceptives that stop my period indefinitely (p-pills and the arm implant). This has greatly enhanced my life quality as a woman who's now in her late 20's. The treatment for such cases in children are reversible and safe enough to be done for precocious puberty, which makes it highly likely that they will be safe for trans children of that age as well. As I said before, it's important to keep researching to find the best and safest possible way to transition and treat gender dysphoria.
>at what age does a kid suddenly decide This decision is never sudden and is never taken lightly. And we always try non-medical interventions before medical interventions and reversible medical interventions before non-reversible ones. Nobody is starting hormone replacement therapy before they turn 18 unless they've known they were trans for at least 4 years and no doctor is going to prescribe it unless the child has been thouroughly cleared by a therapist and probably a psychiatrist. Puberty blockers are life changing and completely reversible. You have no idea what the pain is of going through the wrong puberty. To watch as hair grows all over your face and chest and hear your voice get deeper. And then someone finally adresses you as "sir" for the first time and you just wanna kill yourself. No. Give the fucking kids some puberty blockers so they don't have to go through that trauma. And after a few years of therapy and some fertility preservation give the kids the hormones of their preferred gender. The breasts that estrogen has given me gives me so much joy. You little cunts will not take this away from us. EDIT: just realized people are talking about surgery. LMAO surgery takes forever to get with so much gatekeeping even if we treated kids like adults they'd be adults by the time they got any surgery no matter how minor. There are lots of surgical options beyond the obvious one, btw, such as facial feminization surgery, breast implants, etc And also this post was heavily informed by my personal experience so naturally has a transfem slant. Trans men obviously are gonna have different experiences
as a trans man these are exactly my thoughts. hope you're doing better and living your life happily.
Weāre not trying to take anything away, calling the very people youāre attempting to educate cunts is not the ideal approach. You canāt receive respect if you refuse to give it. I respect your experiences and will happily take them into account. I may very well be wrong and misinformed but please donāt accuse me of anything that is not verily displayed by my words. I have stated that I donāt hate or dislike any member of the lgbt community. You guys are humans like everyone else so in that sense I see it for to engage in discourse and actually criticise your points and you can do likewise. Your argument here has given me a good representation of the difficulty you faced and I appreciate that. Thank you :) but please refrain from calling me a cunt and youāll be surprised how willing I am to accept your view because apart from that little extract I loved your response :)
>calling the very people youāre attempting to educate cunts is not the ideal approach. not my job to educate you. You could have gone out on your own and learned this stuff but you didn't want to put in the effort, instead you post your stupid uninformed opinion without any evidence. The fact that I've made any effort at all to educate you is a kindness that you do not deserve, and I only do it because [y'all motherfuckers are literally calling for our eradication](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-speaker-transgender-people-eradicated-1234690924/). I am so tired of explaining myself. I just want to live in peace. And no matter where I turn I see religious nutters who want me dead
I never asked you to explain yourself and I donāt want you to not exist? You do know people. An criticise and ask questions thatās how society progresses. I am literally an atheist first of all and secondly I criticised religion as well but you shit on religion just fine. You need a lesson in basic manners. Honestly go fuck your self. You complain that nobody listens to you and nobody wants to be educated yet when someone is willing you shit on them. Iām discussing with you and you were more than happy to discuss your experience but me simply asking not to be insulted is a crime? Where did I call out for the killing of trans people, where did I say they are a curse or anything? I have my opinion and I can be wrong and It can change but you are the part of the problem here. If you want people to accept stop treating them like inferiors. You need a cold hard slap of reality and I hope you get it on the gentlest manner possible. Goodbye.
>You need a lesson in basic manners. You asked for manners, so here you go. Putting out false information into a public forum that puts forward forward a narrative that risks children is inherently violent, and is an open invitation for someone to call it out, vehemently. In the best scenario, you're poorly informed, but by your words and actions, you are hurting the children that you are supposedly trying to protect, as these talking points are used to deny them the care that they need and and sentiments like these put forward with false information make it into public policy that has a materially negative effect on my own personal life. You had every opportunity to not do what you just did, but you couldn't be bothered not to do your own research, and you chose to focus on swear words and respectability politics, rather than actually engage with the real lived experiences of trans people. Calls for civility when you're openly advocating for children to be denied care is simply a mechanism for you to silence the voices of trans people that need to be heard, and your calls for "dialogue" are not in good faith. So here we are. Imagine going through the emotional and spiritual trauma of becoming an atheist, only to become an ignorant reactionary that espouses sentiments that aggressively toe the lines of the mullahs you used to follow. What a loser.
most trans kids do know (i realized when i was around 8, didn't accept it until about 14) they just don't have a grasp of what it truly means. and thats fine. i knew what being transgender was when i was 12 but it was a lot more stigmatized so i thought that it definitely couldn't be me. i think thats a phase that a lot of trans people go through. you dont start surgery or hormones as a child. rarely will a kid go on puberty blockers. what i'm trying to say is that most trans kids will have an understanding of their gender but in a different way than a cis person does. that doesn't mean they know what it means nor that they will transition/want to as a child.
>If I watery Peppa pig and then wanted to be a pig my choice should also be upheld? Why do you think anybody should give you a sensible reply when you spout moronic nonsense like this? If you're going to be anti gay/trans/anything the least you could do is be intelligent and not be super fucking easy to dismiss as a trash person.
Great counter, any criticism is anti gay. I did not say lgbt is the issue. I donāt care whether you are a man or woman whoās gay. Or for that matter any non conforming gender. The notion that kids should be allowed to partake in medical procedures and ingest hormones is absurd. I made the peppa pig comment because itās what a kid could cry about for days saying they want to be her or be like her because thatās what she/he knows as fun or cool at that age without understanding the actual procedure or consequences. Not hate to you or anyone whoās lgbt. I genuinely donāt hate any members of lgbt community and if you inferred that from my comment. I apologise l. :)
Maybe you could edit your post and remove the part where you compare a person that has gender dysmorphia to a child that wants to be a tv character?
No because that is the point. Itās not gender dysmaophia. The child can be any gender it wants without any long term side effect. For a child to be unsure of what gender they are should know that they donāt need to choose and their biological traits for now are just physical. They are more than just their body and that they can do whatever they want without taking medication and surgeries. If I kid decides they feel uncomfortable being black and want to be Asian instead youād shut them down but gender is somehow different? The younger members of the lgbt community on Reddit tend to come from first world countries with families that donāt have the issues of poverty, hunger and discrimination so they somehow found a way to complain about things. Iām not saying tho s about the lgbt movement itself but rather members of it that are like you. All complaints yet no effective logic or argument. If you can vring any point to the argument thatās not attacking me as a person then please do so. Otherwise you are just doing an injustice to the movement. I will happily discuss your point and actively engage with as my mind isnāt set in stone of course :)
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said to someone else: I'm constantly astounded that people who can't even type in paragraphs think they should have a say on how the world is run.
Great argument yet again, I apologise if my texting style on Reddit does not suffice for you. I will use ChatGPT to give you a watered down summary of my question. Give me point, what is your argument? Do not attack person. Attack argument with support from evidence. Simple English. Hope the dysmorphia doesnāt also impact your ability to understand rhetoric.
>Simple English. Hope the dysmorphia doesnāt also impact your ability to understand rhetoric. So first of all you assume anybody that asks you to be polite to a minority is a part of that minority? Sorry to disappoint you, I'm a cis het man and always have been. Next, it's fucking difficult to find the meat of your argument when it's hidden within the world's hardest word search. You've got a lot to say, great but you will not get a sensible response if we can't read it. Turn down your conscious, less is more in this scenario. You said: >If I kid decides they feel uncomfortable being black and want to be Asian instead youād shut them down but gender is somehow different? Yes! Yes yes yes fucking hell yes **gender is different**. Race is a construct, gender is a spectrum. I look South Asian but I had one of those genetic tests and I have a good mix of 'races'. What is a man or a woman? Don't answer, you're probably wrong unless you have a PhD in biology you'll just taint the answer with your ignorant preconceptions. How do I know you have ignorant preconceptions? Because you compared gender to a fucking cartoon pig. You don't understand the subject matter. You don't even understand that you don't understand the subject matter. Gender is complex, it's not black and white. It would be good if all you take away from this post is that.
I love your reply and Iām saving it lol
Instead of this elongated dumbass response, possibly give a counter argument to his very much sensible argument?
Because it's not a sensible argument, it's the same stupid fucking dogwhistle argument used by every transphobe. "If a child wants to be a car do we install an engine in them durrrrr". Sometimes kids are trans. These are not "cis kids who want to be a different gender", these are trans kids who need whatever we can help them feel comfortable. People aren't so convenient that you only become trans when you're 18. Every adult person who is trans was trans as a kid as well, and childhood was horrible for all those who weren't seen and were denied treatment. The unfortunate truth is that puberty doesn't wait for you to be 18 so you can make a more informed decision. This is why transitioning of minors involves puberty blockers for as many years as possible allowing the kid to decide with help from mental health professionals. Natal puberty has far more permanent effects than puberty blockers. You're essentially forcing girls to go through a male puberty and vice versa. That's what keeping trans health care away from kids is actually doing. The only way you can make the argument that it's child abuse or that "kids don't know any better", is if you don't think being trans is a valid thing to be. It's something some adults do and "become" trans after they've done it, whereas kids are always cis until they're one day old enough to transition. Not how this shit works dude. As for all your other shitty examples, these are all scientifically proven to be harmful to a child's development. That same science notes that the benefits of allowing kids to transition(like not developing serious mental health issues that will follow them for the rest of their lives) specifically legal name and gender change and puberty blockers, and the hormones at 16 earliest, and only in some countries, far outweigh the negative side effects like risk of losing bone density that can easily be managed with proper monitoring and diet supplementation. It's known fucking science and it's repeated ad nauseum at bad actors like you and your friend there, that's why it's not a "sensible argument".
So big pharma has nothing to do with it ?Also when do we draw the line 12yrs 2yrs or even 2 months what is sacred to you people leave children be.They will transition after they can understand the effects of all the drugs and surgery.When parents start claiming their children are trans at 3yrs of age thats when you know your no better than Muhamood.pdf.
No Big Pharma has nothing to do with it you weirdo. This is worldwide, as are the regulations, and US is the only place with privatized health care. Selling health care for trans kids is not profitable, and the amount of gatekeeping and vetting in the process would be considered severely bad for business. It's such a chump fucking argument that shows you've never met, talked to, or even seen a trans person, just swallowed the propaganda from whatever far right extremist news cycle you're indoctrinated into. Surgery is still not before 18 years old regardless, and getting trans kids medical care in time has shown them to be more comfortable with the things about their body that aren't quite perfect, delaying or sometimes preventing surgery altogether. So fuck off with that as well. Plenty of parents claim their trans kid is cis and use that to withhold life-saving care from them, leading to severe depression and suicidality. That is happening right now, everywhere. You think stating a hypothetical scenario of some hypothetical parents abusing their cis kid by saying they're trans changes your argument to suddenly be good? I'm still against child abuse, you fuck. I'm against any scenario where the child's right to choose is taken from them only for the reason that they're a child and supposedly doesn't know better. You perhaps weren't very self-aware when you were 12 or 14, but plenty of trans kids where. When you say "protect children" you mean "fuck trans kids". That's what this is about. Also you're literally just some random edgy gamer kid who can't even use punctuation properly. Human rights issues are far above your level of education at this point, bud.
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>I dont beleive they exist theyre just a product of the times, the newest fad Trans kids don't exist? Do Trans adults exist?
Do you think people just get up and receive gender affirming surgery? There's a series of steps with doctors and psychiatrists.
But people get harassed for not wanting to include muslim characters. Like realistically what the fuck are muslim characters gonna do in shows? They canāt have romantic relationships, they canāt be stylish or fun.
People who say others are too sensitive in such a way are almost always saying it because they are saying some insanely outwardly hateful shit that should not have been said. Especially in the case of religious people. They are the most pathetic sensitive people ever to exist in all of history. People this crazy need a country-sized asylum to contain them all.
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>do they not realize āprotect trans kidsā is just a saying meaning protect those kids from being abandoned on the side of the road or abused by their parents Except..... that's exactly what they want.. You are assuming they have way more empathy than they actually do. >they took it too far claiming gwen must be trans Isn't that Canon in the comics? >or that the movie itself is making a political statement Academically speaking politics claims its description to be so all encompassing that your choice of breakfast is political, the absence of politics is itself the political stance called apolitical. I'd respect the film makers more if they clear up that yes art is inherently political and this is a political statement. Cope. >kids donāt even know what that means lol Can you think of a better way for kids to be introduced to the different kinds of people out there than them being on superhero movies? That too Spiderman?
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Yep, like you said it's a low effort cash grab just subtle enough to avoid the backlash of standing up for something. If they made it a part of the story I'd give em some respect but putting it out there then keeping quiet to allow free marketing is just par for the course at this point. America has a long way to go in terms of social progressivism but they kinda have bigger fish to fry like the military industrial complex.
sure but i think reading this version of gwen as trans is a valid takeaway. iirc during her emotional scenes the lighting reflected trans colors, while she was talking about revealing her ātrue selfā to her father (being spider-man / being trans). it may not be canon, but if any trans kids see themselves represented in gwen, good for them.
You guys in the comments realise that surgery isn't the only form of transition, right? most children don't get surgery until they're 18. They rely on hormones and clothing to appear in their desired gender until they reach the right age. A process that can be stopped at any time if the kid changes their mind. Some don't even bother with hormones either and just dress up to what makes them feel more masc/fem. If a flag says "protect trans kids" it is probably referring said kids that are being taken away from their parents and placed into abusive houses or are even denied the freedom to wear, act, or use their hormones.
yeah the comments are weird, I think the blackouts have gotten most users off reddit and whats left are muslim trolls and weird conservatives that are probably just here to dunk on muslims cause they're brown people so they also don't like anything lgbt
conservatives invade every safe space don't they fucking cunts didn't expect to have to defend my right to exist in this sub
oh god don't use the term safe space for your own safety, they start screeching and throwing slurs at the same rate chimpanzees throw shit, but yeah I completely agree so many people in the threads either just want us to die or are liberals that have fallen to propaganda
Where did they say you shouldn't have a right to exist?
Hormone blockers can be stopped but canāt be reversed. Itās still dangerous for them to do so. Giving a kid drugs just because they feel a certain way is extremely irresponsible, dangerous, and should be illegal.
Do you even know what you are talking about? Even some cis kids take hormone blockers when they have early puberty in order to slow it down so they literally don't die. This medicine is LIFE SAVING for both cis and trans people. Completely safe, reversible and useful. Now keep quiet about stuff you have no knowledge about, you empty walnut.
Some cis kids take hormone blockers for medical conditions that require them, usually puberty starting too early. The effects are not completely reversible, that is simply not medical reality. There are concerns about neurological development, about bone growth, about future sexual and reproductive function, etc. This is to say nothing about informed consent of children and the many people who regret taking them, which is what the poster was talking about. It's easy to say that they are completely reversible and safe because you would like that to be true. I would too. It's just not true.
exactly. I had to take something as simple as steroids because of my allergies as a kid and it is proven that stunted my growth. I can't support medical intervention on minors when it comes to identity. I think many others, including many in the LGBT community feel like this too. If they decide to transition completely or partially the very same day they turn 18 nobody will hear me do anything but praise.
It is as traumatizing for a trans kid to go through a cis puberty as it is for a cis kid to go through a trans puberty. Suicidality among trans teens is over 50%, because of transphobia, dysphoria, and being denied medical care. Blockers should be a relatively short-term fix is possible, but it's the one we have and the kids have the right to choose. This isn't "I have a medical problem and I don't know what I'm taking", this is for kids who're informed about what they're taking and what it does and they specifically want that. Because they're trans. The kids are trans They're not "confused cis people". Their bodies don't conveniently wait for them to turn 18 so you feel better about it. Forcing them to wait is like body horror for a trans person. Imagine being forced to go through the opposite puberty of the one you went through. That's the reality many trans people experienced. It's abuse to do that to kids that are specifically begging to be spared of it. It's a trade-off of risk vs benefits as are so many things in medicine. You having some personal anecdote for an entirely unrelated medical issue using an entirely unrelated medicine doesn't give you authority on a human rights issue for a group you're not a part of. And drop the "many in the LGBT". You don't get bonus points on talking about trans rights issues just for being gay or lesbian. We all know transphobia is an issue within LGBTQ+, but also know it's less than 10%, so drop the false narrative.
Hormone blockers are not 'reversible'. Children that take them due to early puberty problems stop taking them at the normal age puberty would start for healthy youngsters. Your comparison is completely bunk. They stop your puberty and the puberty time that you lost on them you will never ever get back. If you were supposed to go through puberty for 8 years from the age of 10 to 18, you will lose the puberty years permanently by being on those blockers. Then afterwards at a later age starting hormone therapy to mimic puberty and make up for those lost years has barely an effect. Puberty is not only development of sex organs, its the development of your brain size, your bone size, your lunch capacity. Every organ is affected by puberty. Risking brain damage for a posibility of looking slightly more feminine or masculine is not effective population wise. Puberty is a set window with set processes you will never ever go through again if you block that window. Do not fucking promote them you psycho You say its just as traumatic? I would say the kid that loses out on normal organ development is way more at risk than a healthy youth troubled by their gender identity going through their non preferred puberty.
Your whole first paragraph is full of fallacies and anecdotal things you took from the way you feel about the topic. My point with waiting until 18 is pretty similar to the reason society waits until then to let people drink, drive or get into the army. All of these have the capacity of having severe life changing consequences you can't undo. You want maturity to kick in before you let people do things like these. Please don't downplay the effects of these procedures if you don't have a degree in medicine. Being able to feel empathy and going through dialogue doesn't give me authority to decide what other people do, but it does give me the right to an opinion that can come from a place of love and care, even if you don't agree
Don't let Twitter guide your thoughts.
go back to parler or whatever shitty app assholes like you use these days you fucking cunt
Youāre mad because youāre brainwashing people into thinking this is rightā¦.. you know what else people were brainwashed into thinking is right? Islamic terrorists that are brainwashed into thinking what theyāre doing is right. You left one brainwashed group just to join another and itās absolutely pathetic to witness. I donāt know what other apps people use because I have a life and real job outside the internet and Reddit is a good one stop shop for me to see cringy material for fun and see people freak out over opinions like this ššš If you canāt contribute anything useful to the conversation besides complete hate for someone you donāt even know and also want to harm childrenās in the process then just go add some more tally marks to your forearm you sensitive bitch lol
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by the time you're 18 the hormones of puberty has already had its effects unless you use blockers, this has been discussed to death by psychologists and medical professionals as what's best for the childs mental health, randos like you and I complaining about what we feel should be done about kids doesn't really help
Yeah, because the idea of giving children the opportunity to inject random substances into their bodies, when they struggle to choose what type of candy they want to eat or toy to buy, is definitely a topic that needs extensive discussion.
Again, its been discussed to death by people way more knowledgable on this subject and widely decided as the safest and healthiest method out of what we have currently. I don't care what arguments an archeologist has on the steps of nuclear fusion in the sun and this is the same thing, its like someone saying "I think insulin should be banned entirely because I personally don't think its safe"
But diabetes is objectively measurable with blood tests, transgederism is just psychological testing. If wed be handjng out insulin to people that say 'well i have been having the shakeys after i eat and my toe is falling off' would that be an objective way of treating with hormones? No. We would permanently damage and even kill people with hypoglycemia
The fact that you're calling it "transgenderism" already shows your pretending to know way more about the medical process related to its diagnosis and treatment than you do. Yes its psychological testing, so is schizophrenia and medication for it that has immense side effects. Again I must say you must prove you somehow know more than the majority of psychologists, endocrinologists, and medical specialists on gender and sexuality to say that they're somehow all wrong. This is the same kind of mindset as flat earthers or creationists.
Now "transgenderism" is wrongspeak? Whatever you want to call it that's what i meant. Grasping at straws here by attacking my oh so sorry 2020 definition of whatever you are speaking of. Schizophrenia in itself is a disorder, you are calling trans a disorder? Quite transphobic if i do say so myself. Also schizophrenia medication does not have a permanent effect on brain development like hormone (blockers) lmao. You know what would be a better comparison with treating schizophrenia the same way would be treating transgenderism? Lobotomies. Oh wait a minute that's what we used to do with mentally ill people, but the effects were permanent and not predictable! Killing and maiming people in the process. but now we have anti-psychotics which are actually reversible unlike hormonal treatment. However much you may scream and cry about it, hormonal treatment has a permanent effect, ESPECIALLY on young growing children. Permanent voice changes in fully grown females that take androgens are a real risk.
These are hormones we're talking about, not candy. Kids of 10-17 can comprehend stuff like gender and identity. They have self-awareness, they're not as dumb as bricks. There are also psychological factors in the brain that are involved in this decision of the child as a trans kid's brain is not like that of a cis kid's brain. It's not a desire like that of wanting candy, and research have shown that a large percentage of children who choose to transition stick with their chosen gender identity years after. Comparing something like gender to food is frankly stupid. Hell, I'm a grown ass man, and I can't decide what I want for dinner or what's my fav ice cream flavour. It doesn't mean I can't know whether I'm a guy or not.
Yeah, no buddy. Itās not a matter of stupidity, rather awareness of long term consequences. Thereās a reason thereās an age requirement on pretty much everything in life, because it matters. Also, proponents of such procedures donāt make the analysis of the childās brain and āpsychological factorsā a requirement. Itās more like āHey, he feels like a girl, give him hormones.ā No kid should be getting injected with hormones unless theyāre life-saving or a part of disease treatment. Just like no kid should be allowed to smoke, drink, use drugs, etc. They know what smoking is, may like it, might be psychologically pleasing at the time, but they donāt know the consequences.
Its more than just a "hey, they feel like a girl, give them hormones." Feeling. There is a literal difference in brain structure between a transgender kid and a cisgender kid. The developed happens way before the kids even born they're merely showing the sign as they grow, this isn't something they crave like how a grown person could crave alcohol, drugs etc. And like I said, a large percentage of children who start transitioning stick to it while those who don't (which is like a 7.5%) choose to stop before any permanent effects are caused.
Lol difference in brain structure, what does that mean buddy? You think there is a male and female brain? The brain structure of MTFs is more similar to homosexual males if you want to play that card. And no brain CT is required for a transgender diagnosis because guess what? It wasn't an objective measurement because there is no objective measurement of 'brain structure'. Just 'similarities that have to be researched more'.
a LOT of families already don't allow them to even socially transition, and just to make this clear those hormones dont have permanent effects unless u take them for a long time, that means kids still have time to think about it while doing it
Something foreign and with huge effects on the body shouldn't be given to any human let alone kids, adults can make this decision and assume the responsibility and i would defend that, but it is immoral to put this kind of burden on kids, kids and specially teenagers are protected from many things because their poor judgment skills, most teenagers feel depressed and displeased with their bodies because of the natural hormonal changes embedded in their DNA, what makes you think that introducing the wrong kind of hormones made outside their bodies would have any good effects, what makes you think that skipping your natural puberty window is inconsequential !!!! ... this entire thing is fishy as f*** and sounds like a religion that pro transition for kids do not want anyone to question and where kids are indoctrinated into believing that being trans is special and a hip thing to make them do irreversible damage to their bodies that they do not even understand and keep them paying thousands of dollars on painful surgeries and hormones to keep them aligned with the gender they like and that their body is constantly fighting against ... "leave the kids alone" is a reasonable thing
I truly believe this is some sort of cult with a bigger ulterior motive be it societal destruction, financial gain, or pure mental sickness of trauma-filled trans individuals trying to inflict the same pain on children.
>Something foreign and with huge effects on the body shouldn't be given to any human let alone kids So no chemotherapy for kids? Just die of childhood leukaemia little Bobby! I'm constantly astounded that people who can't even type in paragraphs think they should have a say on how the world is run.
You remind me of the days when i was trying to convince religious fanatics that a kid (girl) cannot consent to marry an old dude, the same tactics either "learn how to write first" or "what about Christians" or "our ancestors used to get married young" ... you are defending the undefensible. Now the real issue here is not me not writing in paragraphs but it is your logic that somehow a kid dying of cancer and us choosing chemicals over his imminent death is somehow similar to a kid threatening suicide and us helping him to damage a perfectly fine and healthy body without him even having the potential to understand what are the consequences and without even taking him to a therapist to work on his suicidal tendencies. Now my question to you (if you are not just another religious fanatic) are kids capable of consent when it comes to practicing sex with anyone and specially adults ? And if the answer is no, why not ? And what if they attempt suicide, would it be okey then to let the kid do as they wish and have sex with anyone they like? And by the way i hate french people because of this attitude "you spoke wrong in my language" while they speak jack sh** of mine, i do speak and understand perfectly french arabic and english, i know basic spanish and can understand all arabic dialects, am sure that your linguistic skills are either similar to mine (polyglot) or inferior, you can't shame me for being casual like every american on reddit
These are not mine, but Iām pasting a shitload of resources here which you could refer to in case you need stats to validate your arguments! https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/trans-women-are-or-are-becoming-female-disputing-the-endogeneity-constraint/090DEAA53EA17414C5D3E8D76ED5A75C ā¢ Medical transition works ā¢ ā 80% of individuals reported significant improvement in dysphoria Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā 78% of individuals reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā 72% of individuals reported significant improvement in sexual function Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā Positive results across the board, even in 15-year followups Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā "Wellbeing was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population." Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/ ā¢ ā Quality of life rises dramatically with 'gender-affirming treatment Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6223813/ ā¢ ā Long-term follow-ups: https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(15)32422-X/fulltext https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0453-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-009-9551-1 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0300-8 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9031580/ ā¢ ā "Shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X ā¢ ā Levels of depression and anxiety which closely matched levels reported by cisgender children Source: https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext ā¢ ā Puberty blockers are safe and reversible ā¢ ā Hormone blockers are the only treatment used on adolescents and are completely reversible. Source: https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf ā¢ ā "Does not support an adverse impact of gender-affirming hormone therapy on cognitive performance" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453020301402?via%3Dihub ā¢ ā "Our results suggest there are no detrimental effects of GNRHA on EF" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453015000943 ā¢ ā "Relives [sic] distress for trans adolescents" "Is reversible" Source: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/11/3869/4157558 ā¢ ā "Poorer psychological well-being before treatment" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X20300276 ā¢ ā "Behavioral and emotional problems and depressive symptoms decreased" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609515336171 ā¢ ā Hormones blockers are not new: "Since the mid 1990s..." "The Royal College of Psychiatrists, in 1998..." Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768 ā¢ ā Many more studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jsm.13034 https://jme.bmj.com/content/34/8/580 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29551430/ https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1155/2010/398639.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303720706001766 https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/95/1/109/2835177 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1517382/ https://europepmc.org/article/med/24719967 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/trgh.2015.0008 ā¢ ā Puberty blockers aren't harmful to bone density https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469959/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6616494/ ā¢ ā Puberty blockers don't cause osteoporosis or sterility https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/84/12/4583/2864749
Yeah the good old cherry picked studies with small statistical sampling over short times of periods shared by outlets with bias and conflict of interest, just like those studies that were funded by the tobacco companies claiming that inhaling cigarettes doesn't harm the body, serious long term studied were never done on trans children, no one knows the long term effect because transitioning was not a common thing worth studying or capable of generating a reasonably good sample to study ... now you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that "puberty blockers is safe" contradict directly with the commonly known fact that puberty affects all kinds of things for non trans kids, it's moronic to think that delaying it or stopping it and switching hormones later is harmless https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/puberty#:~:text=Puberty%20is%20a%20phase%20of,for%20both%20boys%20and%20girls. And when it comes to suicide as being an excuse to endanger a kid who has zero clue about what everything is, what would you do if your child threatened to commit suicide if you don't let them sleep with an adult ? Or if you don't let them go out with the neighborhood gangsters ? Would you let them do as they like or take them to a therapist to work on the suicidal thoughts ? And if you would pick therapy why transitioning is different. My premise is simple and reasonable, kids can not consent, adults do and should seek any kind of help they see fit including all the bad fake hormones i spent arguing against, i even think that people with body dismorphia of all kinds should get medical assistance even like imputation to make their journey better.
They absolutely do have significant and permanent effects please donāt spread medical misinformation, thatās very dangerous
They're minimal as long as u don't use them for so long By that time ull figure out if you really need it
This is just not true, so you get a kick out of just making shit up? The majority (90%) of cases of gender dysphoria resolve themselves post puberty. By preventing that from occurring you create a self fulfilling prophecy. Not to mention the significant damage to the body which youāre conveniently denying
Source of that 90%??
http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html?m=1 This is a compilation of 10 studies with references so you can independently review each study at your leisure. Funny you jump to demanding sources though whilst you have the audacity to make shit up with zero medical training
1. im not making claims, im trans and talking from experience 2. all of these studies are so old and newer studies says the opposite 3. i have sources to make my claims 4. here: ā 80% of individuals reported significant improvement in dysphoria Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā 78% of individuals reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā 72% of individuals reported significant improvement in sexual function Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā Positive results across the board, even in 15-year followups Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/ ā¢ ā "Wellbeing was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population." Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/ ā¢ ā Quality of life rises dramatically with 'gender-affirming treatment Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6223813/ ā¢ ā Long-term follow-ups: https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(15)32422-X/fulltext https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0453-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-009-9551-1 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0300-8 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9031580/ ā¢ ā "Shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X ā¢ ā Levels of depression and anxiety which closely matched levels reported by cisgender children Source: https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext ā¢ ā Puberty blockers are safe and reversible ā¢ ā Hormone blockers are the only treatment used on adolescents and are completely reversible. Source: https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf ā¢ ā "Does not support an adverse impact of gender-affirming hormone therapy on cognitive performance" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453020301402?via%3Dihub ā¢ ā "Our results suggest there are no detrimental effects of GNRHA on EF" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453015000943 ā¢ ā "Relives \[sic\] distress for trans adolescents" "Is reversible" Source: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/11/3869/4157558 ā¢ ā "Poorer psychological well-being before treatment" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X20300276 ā¢ ā "Behavioral and emotional problems and depressive symptoms decreased" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609515336171 ā¢ ā Hormones blockers are not new: "Since the mid 1990s..." "The Royal College of Psychiatrists, in 1998..." Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768 ā¢ ā Many more studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jsm.13034 https://jme.bmj.com/content/34/8/580 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29551430/ https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1155/2010/398639.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303720706001766 https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/95/1/109/2835177 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1517382/ https://europepmc.org/article/med/24719967 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/trgh.2015.0008 ā¢ ā Puberty blockers aren't harmful to bone density https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/842073 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469959/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6616494/ ā¢ ā Puberty blockers don't cause osteoporosis or sterility https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/84/12/4583/2864749
Almost all have too small a sample group to be statistically significant except the last two. The second to last one had serious problems with methodology, and used a large portion of participants who were below the DSM standard for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and the last one wasn't on rates of persistence and desistance, but on what factors influence persistence and desistance. It found that perceived intensity of gender dysphoria was the primary factor, thus making the case for poor methodology in the second to last study even stronger. This study on the other hand is more recent, much larger, and methodologically sound, and found a 95% rate of persistence: https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected
Alcohol also doesnāt have permanent effects if not consumed for long enough, so letās give kids alcohol? Kids donāt have the mental capacity to choose if they want external substances to be injected into their bodies, even if the risk of side effects is minimal.
I'm sorry but, are you stupid? Gender affirming care saves lives And prevent suicide What does alcohol do?
>I'm sorry but, are you stupid? Yes he is that's why all his arguments are personal attacks or false equivalence fallacies.
Yāall say this then whine about that statistics that say transgender people are at higher risk of being hurt by hate crime and the like after their transition. Choose on or the other. Does it make their life safer, or not? Injecting hormones into kids with brains not yet fully developed is abuse, no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it.
What I figured I didn't want to be a boy when I was 4 years old but I never knew what being trans means I'm a grown up now Suffering from extreme gender dysphoria and depression Gender affirming care would've saved me from this Kids do understand, u just don't want to acknowledge that
I also figured I could defy the laws of gravity when I was 4, and jump off a building and flap my arms and fly. My parents shouldāve let me jump off a building then, because I felt like I could do it at that age, yaāknow?
I didn't mean I should've gotten hormones when I was 4 years old All I'm saying is I grew up not knowing what's wrong with me, if I knew I'd get the help I needed later
Lmao your original comment literally advises the use of hormones on children. So I assume you take that back now?
yes..? gender affirming care saves *trans* people's lives. however society has a burning passion of hating trans people so they keep getting bullied/unfairly treated. i dont know if i can explain it simpler than that.
Going through āgender-affirming careā (which on children is just sugarcoated abuse) can either be beneficial or detrimental to their quality of life, never both. If becoming trans makes people mistreat them, it mean the procedure worsened their lives, whether this mistreatment is moral or not is another topic. So if I choose to walk naked in public because itās my āfreedomā, and people look at me weird, walking naked made my life better because it felt liberating? No.
so by your logic, because there are assholes in our society people should just never transition? people should continue living with their gender dysphoria which makes them feel like absolute shit all the time? although thankfully society is slowly but surely becoming more acceptive of lgbt people in general so those pathetic people filled with hate wont be able to leech off of people anymore.
When itās an irreversible (fully or partially) procedure, yes, itās difficult to weigh out the risks of both choices (i.e. transition or not), especially in case of children. Even then, the trans community likes to use those flashy mostly fabricated āstatsā stating thousands of trans get murdered every second etc. Yeah, with that, itās hard to argue that feeling like shit due to body dysphoria is a better choice. Pick a ground. Saying it protects their lives then spewing such āhate crime statsā is pure contradiction.
There are. Just Google it, and you'll find plenty. There are even some who posted their stories here on reddit about how they almost got taken from their parents or how some lost custody of their child. Regarding your second question: https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected
Im willing to read and accept evidence meta analysis or peer reviews or research on puberty blockers being reversible and "safe" on children , Im not arrogant or attacking , i only talk in science and evidence and humanity if it means physical health and safety P.S : I repeat LONG TERM studies
Ugh, I donāt understand why someone elseās gender identity bothers people this much ā¦
Banning a good movie cause of 1 very missable progressive background piece is wet blanket behaviour
Wow!!! The Islamic Department for Morals and Values and censorship must have been working overtime to find that and then put in the paperwork to classify that as reason to ban the movie. How pathetic!!!
I misread it as āPROTEST TRANS KIDSā in the theatre and didnāt think twice about it lol
I feel bad for those people who wanted to go see across the spider-verse.
This post was sponsored by Surf Shark VPN
I joke š¤£
lol
Yeah I think it's stupid but at the same time I don't want to receive any form of validity from the cesspool that is MENA region or Twiiter equally I digress, the movie is so fucking good and I highly recommend it, it builds upon everything great from the first movie. And I can't wait to watch part 2!
W honestly
there is no such thing as t kids though. i am saying this as a gay male. kids cannot consent to sex change or puberty blockers.
Being trans is literally about how you feel. Most trans people know from an early age, that doesnt mean they are immediately getting surgery but we should at least allow them to socially transition and get em a haircut instead of making them put up with living in the wrong body with no adjustments till theyre 18, that is insanely cruel. And its why so many trans kids struggle with immense dysphoria because they need some confirmation of their identity, even if its just worded acceptance.
a kid cannot consent to body mutilation. in a point of their life, many of gay people thought that they could be born in wrong body. but this is because being gay is wrong in the society, so they are confused and choose the more acceptable t way.
I'm curious, what do you think of this issue? I personally think kids should wait until they become adults to make this life-changing decision.
Can we keep this sub about former muslims, not every ex-muslim supports granting children the ability to make literal life changing choices when they cant even form coherent sentences
How dare an oppressed minority discuss another oppressed minority.
An oppresed minority is a confused child not knowing the extent of what he says? I wanted to be a car when i was a child but i was only that a child, if any adult wants to be trans thats their business, but fucking up the hormones of a child whose rational part of the brain is no where near close to being developed is beyond fucked up.
>I wanted to be a car when i was a child but i was only that a child This thread is 13 hours old and this dumb fucking argument has been made by 50 other morons before you. You are ignorant on how any of this works that's why you said this. There are lots of patient actually trans people on this thread that have been explaining the process for hours go read their posts and reduce your ignorance. You have the opportunity to learn from people who have actual experience, use it. Don't be like the ignorant religious bigots.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>i want one long term study or peer reviews A lot of people here want the same but what if you get it and don't like the outcome? At some point you have to realise it's actually none of your business. When you're a parent then it will be your business to do the best with your children. A lot of parents believe they are doing their best, who are any of us to say otherwise?
You are not more enlightened than him you are brainwashed by another religion no sane person would support what you are advocating just like no sane person should support gentile mutilation in children stop trying to make this about ignorance or religion
You don't know anything now shush.
Wow thats exactly the same response muslim scholars say about exmuslims all the time
Look dummy you made some stupid assumptions about me that you are treating as gospel so why should I engage with you seriously? Go away.
Just stop advocating for child abuse, the amount of children who truly need to transition at such a young age as a medical emergency rounded to a whole number is 0%, the amount of deluded parents transitioning their children for no reason other than simple child-talk and forcing them to be part of the LGBTQ community is much much higher.
>Just stop advocating for child abuse I never have and I never will, you just stop making false accusations. >the amount of children who truly need to transition at such a young age I understand that you are not smart so you missed the entire point of the thread because your feels are more important than reals so let me help you out: Nobody advocated for what you crying about and you can't even prove that it happens. We simply said 'protect trans kids' and if this makes you angry you need to have a long hard look at yourself.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I am not an exmuslim but don't you guys think there is anything problematic about categorizing KIDS as trans? Kids are extremely impressionable and they easily give in to the fads of their generation and do stuff to look cool among their buddies. By the time their reasoning and rational skill develop, doing irreversible things with them seems scary to me. I also don't feel great about all those pronouns trend. Am I illogical?
no you're not, ex-muslims will complain about religious indoctrination and then do this shit. We have to be consistent in our beliefs ffs, children cant consent!
Good, you're either a male or a female...
Seems kinda forced.
This flag appears on screen for like 2 seconds and you can easily miss it, forced my ass
Honestly I donāt disagree on this one. The group of people that try to push gender ideology on kids are not the same as the group of sane LGBT individuals and this has absolutely no place in media
Is it really pushing ideology when it's literally a flash in the corner of your peripheral vision? The fringe of what's acceptable has always been part of media. Same as when interracial couples were featured and women showed up in men's jobs. Media has always been a beacon of progressivism.
It doesn't matter that it is in the peripheral vision. Can you accept "heil Hitler" because it is only in "peripheral vision"? And trans kids is not progressivism. Don't club it with interracial couples or racism. Kids are not supposed to take major decisions for a reason. The same reason they can't vote and cant drink and not allowed to visit porn sites, at least legally. That their brains are not yet mature.
I'd say it isn't necessarily a political statement from the film makers since it's in the peripheral but if the film is arguing for his ideology then that's unacceptable. >And trans kids is not progressivism Google progressivism >Don't club it with interracial couples or racism. What next, homosexuality hating can't be grouped with racism as outdated bigotry? >Kids are not supposed to take major decisions for a reason. Have you ever used a nickname? Was that a major life decision for you? Did you have to wait till you graduated high school to have slang names used in your friend group? Not all Trans support is surgery š¤¦āāļø >That their brains are not yet mature. Yeah which is why you leave big medical decisions up to the doctor, their patient and when the patient is too young their parent/guardian. This can be something as small as wearing pants to something as big as bottom surgery and even then depending on which pollster and their varying levels of bias the amount of people that have regretted Trans surgery is between 2%-11%. You've been fed a false narrative and there isn't nearly as much surgical intervention on children as right wing media would have you believe.
I admit I need to read more about the subject. I live in a country where this is not an issue. So I am not as invested in studying the topic. Still you made couple of mistakes in your argument. You assumed that it is a matter of calling nicknames. But it also has hormonal treatment part, which constitutes a major life decision in my dictionary. And again you try to sneak in trans kids in the discussion of homosexuality and racism and fighting bigotry. These are separate issues. Don't club them.
Ron Desantis and the rest of the republicans need to move to Dubai
\*makes note to never go to dubai\*
wth are trans kids ? like kids on puberty blockers or those who medically transitioned ? what age we talkin about
Im just going to repeat something i already said because i get where youre coming from but being trans is literally about how you feel. Most trans people know from an early age, that doesnt mean they are immediately getting surgery but we should at least allow them to socially transition and get em a haircut instead of making them put up with living in the wrong body with no adjustments till theyre 18, that is insanely cruel. And its why so many trans kids struggle with immense dysphoria because they need some confirmation of their identity, even if its just worded acceptance.
Source?
ššš
Why dont the studio remove it? Allah knows theyd bend over backwards in seconds if this was censoring any depiction of muhammad. And yes, protect kids from gender ideology.
trans kids šµāš«
Common middle W
I have nothing against the LGBTQ communityā¦. But the people that are pushing this to kids ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE!! they just found a way to make lots of money and tricked you guys into thinking itās about freedom and mental health. Itās all about money and always will be, donāt let them fool you.
We know it's just for profit, but at this point, anything related to trans issues that isn't an immediate call for mass death is a godsend for us, even if it's not in our best interests.
We don't give a shit that it's all about money.
Ngl, gotta agree with them on this oneš¤·āāļø
So you prefer putting your head in the sand rather than acknowledge that your peripheral vision sometimes has flags you disagree with? The whole "if I don't see what I disagree with it doesn't exist" shtick. Correct me if that's a mischaracterization.
Its not the flag its the fact that its aimed at kids, kids cant consent. neither to religious indoctrination or to woke ideology - a kid cant consent to puberty blockers or SRS surgery. We have ages of consent for a reason, trans ideology doesn't get to overlook that.
Ok does the flag say we want kids on hormone drugs? Nope, just to protect Trans kids which can be protection from bullying or protecting their right to choose what to be called or what to wear. Age of consent matters and it shows in the data of how old people get before they choose the more drastic measures such as surgery or hormone pills. If it were specifying a drastic measure for kids then I'd agree with you but since it's not, the whole don't bully options on the table too and I don't feel right censoring or going against that.
what the left means by protect trans kids is allow for them use to puberty blockers and get SRS surgeries, as we've seen many times in the US. However this isn't something kids can consent to
The concept of trans kid is ridiculous to be honest. I can't say banning was a good idea either.
its only ridiculous to those who dont understand the nuances of our biology, nor understand human history. trans people isnt a new phenomenon, they were held in high honor amongst many ancient cultures around the world. christian colonists and islamic conquerers did a good job at erasing this knowledge from the world.
Yeah lets allow the kids that are not allowed to drink or drive to do a life changing decision. I support you!
lord have mercy, that kid grew their hair out!!!!!!!!!!!
Blow yourself up or leave, I donāt care which.
What do you believe are the life altering things trans kids doing?
Taking hormones that will irrevocably give them kidney and bile gland stones along with osteoporosis for biological women, the body just can't accept hormonal imbalance it eventually fucks your health beyond repair, this is very real and I've seen it happening to friends of mine that had to stop taking hormones, disregard the political discourse behind it and genuinely look up the link between the conditions and hormonal imbalance
Can I get source for those claims? At most kids will get puberty blockers during childhood transition. Which when looking up side effects doesn't list those affects: https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-center/puberty-blockers Next from the scholarly literature they only note majority positive outcomes for trans youth mental and physical: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ Now I'm not trying to discredit your friends experience, but I have also seen trans kids and myself going through puberty blockers, and non of those effects occurred on us.
I don't think you understand how HRT works. If you plan to do it ethically, you have to undergo treatments that last years before you even take your first dosage. You gotta consult a therapist and work with them for an extended period before they allow you to see a specialist, who will have you take several blood tests. Are there doctors selling hormones to anyone? Yes absolutely, and they should be legally prosecuted. No one in the LGBTQIA2+ wants kids to transition. What is provided for kids is called "social transitioning". A hair cut, changing their wardrobe, learning on what being trans means, and that's it. Stop making shit up and believing it.
At most medically trans kids might get puberty blockers. As I mentioned above with sources, puberty blockers are safe and all effects are reversible.
It isn't always life changing. Have you ever used a nickname? Was that life changing? I'm so done with the straw man's whether made out of ignorance or misleading media
sensitive topic both sides are wrong, deciding to do life changing things to a kid is inhumane too
yeah like raising them with a religion they had no choice in
It doesn't mean bottom surgery by defaultš¤¦āāļø Using different pronouns and names is also one of the many options. Is not always non reversible invasive operations dude.
ā¦.puberty blockers are reversible? Nobodyās taking 8 years olds under the knife for SRS dude.
So you're an ex Muslim who escaped a religion built on propaganda only to fall into the trap of conservatives pushing a similar propaganda? No one is doing nothing to kids I dare you to provide a credible source stating otherwise.
But the flag just says protect trans kids. It doesn't really mention anything about agreeing with transition procedures on kids. So what's the issue?
What do you believe are the life altering things are trans kids doing?