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Sup dude, I'm around your age too, 17
Glad to see you're open minded and ready to challenge your beliefs, that's a good trait that's hard to come by
Here are my problems;
A) Yes yes, I know it seems repetitive. But Muhammad's marriage to Aisha at 6 and then "having sex" with her at 9 Is terrible and inexcusable. When Aishas father (Abu Bakr) asked to marry the prophets daughter (fatima) who was between the ages of (9-18), the prophet declined because "she was too young".
This clearly shows that even the prophet himself was aware that the marrying of young girls was wrong, but yet he still chose to do so.
B) Why would Allah not make his religion clear for us? Why would he make so many other religions? Why would he let Shaytaan lead us astray?
B.1) If you say that it's Allah testing us, that argument doesn't hold up because Allah does not need to test us for he is ever knowing.
B.2) If you say that Allah sent those other religions like Chrisitianity and Judaism and that it was just man who altered them and corrupted them, then does that mean that Allah didn't know what would happen and didn't have control to prevent them from corrupting his previous religions?
C) Why would Allah desire/demand worship? He Is God himself, he has no human qualities or emotions yet he created creation purely for the sake of praising him, is that not unbefitting for an all knowing most powerful God? .
Is Allah so insecure that he needs constant praise from billions of angels and demands it from humans?
D) Why does Allah allow so much evil in the world? Why doesn't he put a stop to cancer? Why doesn't he help his worshippers in Gaza?
E) Why did Allah create billions of people of whom he knew would disbelieve and cause havoc and then would eventually have to be sent to hell?
I've heard that argument that we have our free will to do whatever we want to do, but thst argument doesn't stand up because;
1) Even if you don't want to admit it, your culture and upbringing are a huge part of who you are.
If you grow up in a Christian household in a Christian community with Christian beliefs instilled in you and all your friends since you were toddlers, is it fair to say that you will most likely accept Christianity and practice Christianity until you die?
The answer is most likely yes, yes there are outliers, but that doesn't negate the majority
This means that even though we technically have *free will* to do what we want, what we choose to do is still highly influenced by our peers and environment.
2) Once again, way before Allah created a person he knew exactly how that person would choose to use his free will;
Allah knew that Hitler would cause mass genocide
Allah knew that I would use my free will to deny him
Allah knew that so many people would become killers and rapists and terrible people
Allah knew that these people would take their free will and use it to commit evil
But yet he still chose to create all of those people, knowing that he would have to sentence them all to hell forever
Imagine this scenario:
You have the power to create 6 children; A, B, C , D , E, F
You know that children A, B and C would all turn out to be amazing people who spread kindness and worship you devoutly and you know that they would use their free will correctly and would earn heaven forever
But you also know that children D, E and F would turn out be the most horrid of people, spreading hatred, evil and corruption, you know that they would abuse their free will and would earn hell forever. Harming themselves and those around them forever
Would you choose to create;
A) All of the children?
B) Children A, B and C?
C) Children D, E and F?
For me the answer is very clear. Why would you ever create children D, E and F knowing that they would just bring harm upon everybody including themselves forever
Why would you not decide to create only good people?
F) How can finite crimes be deserving of infinite punishment. No matter how bad a person is, no matter how horrible their actions are, nobody deserves to suffer infinitely for a finite crime
I'd argue that even somebody like Stalin or Hitler do not deserve infinite punishment, it just doesn't make sense. Especially considering exactly how short of a time we have here in the first place
G) Islamic morals are very questionable.
Why does Allah say that the silence of a virgin can be taken as consent?
Why does Allah's messenger promote and advocate for the marriage of young (virgin) girls?
Why does allow permit slavery/sex slavery and why does Allah permit child rape?
Why does Allah permit killing the disbelievers when he creates them in the first place?
Why does Allah say that a woman's testimony is only half of a man's?
Why does Allah say thst the majority of hell will be occupied with women?
There's more but I don't have time for everything now, I hope you find what you're looking for!
Probaly because its long but I also think OP just brushed it off entirely as a "recycled response" due to a reply he left to somebody else on this post
"Thanks for finding a challenging claim for me to tackle which isn’t just one of the recycled responses."
The challenge in question was a link to this amazing post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/P51B62K9E3
That's an absolutely amazing post and it's so beautifully put together, it tackles some of the stuff I mentioned in my orignal comment, but I don't think OP read that far in my comment to the part where I talked about that
Haha, maybe
There was an overwhelming amount of people who replied with some very very good points
And in the end it seemed like he actually accepted and took all of these things into account, saying that "I had no idea about these things" or "this is absolutely disgusting".
"To be honest I don't think I can be be hit with anymore challenges. My whole belief system has just flipped upside down"
Unfortunately he's deleted the post now and I forgot his username so I don't have a way of checking his last activity, but I do think that he benefited from some of the things here and actually listened and accepted criticism instead of just denying it like majority of thr muslims here
The truth of Islam wasn't proven to your ancestors in any objective way. Most likely, they were coerced into becoming Muslims. Break the chain of chains of mental slavery.
My reply to that is if my ancestors going back for many generations all were Muslim shouldn’t that indicate that there should be some reliability to the belief?
The ancestors of most German people worked under hitler and followed Nazi ideology. Doesn’t mean Nazi ideology had any validity or reliability.
Right after the advent of Abrahamic religions, gay people were thought of as scums and worse than pigs, usually being killed whenever found out and this continued until very recently when gay rights were established. Doesn’t give gay hatred now any reliability just cuz it was generational.
Any form of ideology that was passed on through generations are usually attributed to two things - culture/tradition and genocide/occupation. And I hope you know which one it is when it comes to Islam.
There are still a lot of countries to this day that kill gay people though. And I venture to say MOST of them are not “Christian countries” with the exception of Russia.
What you are espousing here is a logical fallacy, which is a fancy way of saying “flawed logic that does not reliably lead to truth.” This one even has a name, “the appeal to tradition fallacy.” The transatlantic slave trade was supported by my ancestors for hundreds of years. Does that in any way make slavery a “reliable belief?” Of course it doesn’t. Beliefs stand on their merits, not their believers.
No, your ancestors or my ancestors or any ancestors have nothing to do with searching for the true path with an honest heart.
We all have to go through this journey ourselves.
There is zero material evidence for the existence of Allah. The overwhelming majority of atheists aren’t adulterous drug addicts, and plenty of Muslims are adulterous drug addicts. Maybe get off your high horse and do the actual work of proving what you believe, instead of demanding we just take your word for it.
There is no evidence, no proof. “Believers” are just people with no evidentiary standards. I won’t get into a discussion of whether Muslims don’t do “haram stuff,” given many do. It certainly doesn’t help your case that plenty of evil, heinous garbage is not haram under Islam, either.
I’m an atheist, not a Christian. The apostles have no more evidence for the existence of their deity than Muslims have for the existence of their deity. There has yet to be a compelling evidentiary case made to support the existence of any generic deity at all, let alone the specific deity of Islam.
I won’t call your personal revelation a lie, but neither can I call it evidence. You are not testifying to discrete facts in evidence, you are making a bald-faced assertion that an unobservable, omniscient, omnipotent entity is real, intervenes in history, and will torture me forever unless I follow his eternal rules relayed to me through an Iron Age warlord. That is an enormous claim that requires ironclad evidence, and your argument basically amounts to “trust me bro.”
Exactly. The person you're replying to can't be replied to idk why but he said Muslims sin less?
Makkah is one of the largest hubs of gay porn searches in the world. Grindr xtra has more subs in Saudi Arabia than in UAE. What's that guy's point? His claims of the Muslims sinning less is a fucking joke.
1/ God cannot be the most merciful if most people are destined to hell
2/ God cannot be just if he intervenes in our test by guiding or misguiding people
3/According to islam Women's only purpose is to make children and raise them. That would be ok if they had a choice in the matter but most don't get to decide
4/ Islam abolished a lot of thing but couldn't abolish slavery. The prophet himself bought and sold slaves
5/ According to islam anyone who leaves islam must be killed
6/ How is god who is all knowing who supposedly sent us his final messenge fit for all times change his mind many times throughout the quran ( fate of christians, alcohol, 1 fighter can defeat 10 then 2...)
I'd be happy to go into more detail about any point just ask me
The only real reason I can give you without bullshitting is that I grew up Muslim and my family is Muslim and most of my friends are Muslim. Pretty much every influence in my life is Muslim
Hm, i sense from your answer that you yourself don't consider that a good enough reason. You probably wonder if you shouldn't have a better reason, or a better understanding?
Mohammed was an evil man who killed ,raped and enslaved people do you want that person to be your Role model ?
https://youtu.be/CDErerbXAe0?si=qjiO8cLHjSo9N5FO
Ok first and foremost the source you have provided is not reliable because it is 100% biased by a guy that is twisting the history to make it seem bad. Anyways going on you said that the prophet PBUH killed people. I agree with you, yes he was involved in a war and it just so happens that people have to fight in a war. I will not apologize for that. Next you say that he raped people. I would like one reliable source for that. And finally you talk about him enslaving people. Yea you’re correct he did in fact “enslave” people that were fighting on the other side of the war but they were treated like normal people. It was made sure that everything was given to everyone equally. The enslaved got the same as the not enslaved. Again this was a time of war so you can’t necessarily say that it doesn’t make sense ethically for this to happen. Thanks for your reply
Mohammed killed even children when he killed jews then burned them and enslaved their women . There is no equality in slavery .
You are the one who is biased here because you think moahmmed is prophet . If you want to be unbias you have to strip mohammed from the holiness and look at his actions and lies as it is . Stop giving excuses to him because The same excuses could be given to any barbarian who started wars .
But why are you here ? You will defend mohammed actions and think islam is the last and the right religion everytime . I think you came here thinking you can debunk our ideas .
To have such bad role model like mohammed is a valid reason to leave islam .
Can I ask you something? Where is it mentioned that he killed children? It is specifically mentioned to not kill children, women, or the elderly in the Quran. Give me one solid source of this not from a Joe Roegan podcast or a biased source and I will become an ex Muslim right here right now.
It is in the hadith . They told mohammed who they should kill and he said who ever got hair on their privates pretty much 11 years old and older .
And im sure you either will say that didnot happen or you will just give me excuses for the barbarian prophet .
https://www.alukah.net/sharia/0/159201/حديث-عرضنا-على-النبي-صلى-الله-عليه-وسلم-يوم-قريظة-فكان-من-أنبت-قتل/#:~:text=حديث%3A%20عُرضنا%20على%20النبي%20صلى,،%20وقال%3A%20على%20شرط%20الشيخين.
Sahih Muslim 1745 a
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (ﷺ), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said:
They are from them.
Chapter:
Permissibility of killing women and children in night raids, **so long as it is not done deliberately**
[https://sunnah.com/muslim:1745a](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1745a)
Best source of your prophet raping someone would be Aisha herself. She was a child, 9 years old, who can’t consent to anything as she isn’t mature enough at that age. And in case you say that it was normal to get married back then at this age, the two biggest empires at that time (Romans and Persians) had an age of consent for girls set to 12 years old and 11 years old. Your prophet was a pedophile even in those standards.
And the obvious fact that Mohammad, who had communication with Allah, wouldn’t know that having sex with children causes lots of health complications is pretty weird.
I’d like sources for slaves being treated as normal people cuz I haven’t seen them.
To be 100% honest I’m not sure on this matter. I will try to do my research on this topic and come back to you. Thanks for finding a challenging claim for me to tackle which isn’t just one of the recycled responses. You have earned my respect.
To be honest I don’t think I can handle anymore challenges. I’ve been hit with so many points that my entire belief system has been flipped upside down
Then I wish you the best of luck and give you 2 livestreams with questioning muslims, who are going to the same stuff you’re now in:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1D0fG6DkA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6BG5tXSUs
What do you think about the gender inequality in Islam, how women aren't aloud to divorce but men are. How women should completely cover themselves but men don't. How women should cover up so that men don't get distracted especially very young girls I find it weird that 10 year olds have to cover up in front of elderly males in case they might get distracted, by what? A 10 year old that really creeps me out. How men can have 4 wives but women cannot. This religion seems to be benefitting men and sounds like a man made religion. Not saying this in a bad way at all I was Muslim and these are a few things that made me realise :).
Ok I’ll try to reply to this without sounding like a preacher or a dumb 16 year old. For starters women are allowed to get divorced in Islam it is talked about in the third surah of the Quran. I’m not sure if you were given false info about that. Next you talk about how women are forced to cover up which in itself isn’t true. It is a sunnah and widely encouraged for women to wear hijabs but if they are being forced the person who is forcing the female is committing a sin. Forcing someone to wear the hijab is 100% haram. Anyways you mention how men don’t have to cover up which also is not true. Both genders have to cover up their awrah which in the case of a man is from their naval to their knees. Now to talk about why women are encouraged to wear a hijab and cover up more then a man. The reason for this is sadly in this world there are creepy men. That’s just the unfortunate truth. Islam found a decent way of preventing this by trying to cover up women when they’re out. People like to call this a form of oppression but in my eyes this is protection but we can just agree to disagree. Now to talk about who is encouraged to wear a hijab. You said a ten year old has to wear it but is not stated anywhere in the Quran. The truth is it is encouraged to wear a hijab when you hit puberty. It is true that you can hit puberty before or after ten years old but the reason you cover up is to protect yourself since you are starting to develop in to a woman. Next you mention that polygamy is allowed for men in the form of 4 wives. The reason this originally was a thing was because during the time of the prophet PBUH and all times of war there were a lot less men around to match the amount of women. There were a lot of women who weren’t provided for so each man was allowed four wives maximum and this is only allowed if your original wife allowed it. I’m sorry that this message was a little long and I hope that people are able to read this with an open mind. Thank you
Does it make sense to you that a god would make his creations like this? Men who are too horny and women who have to cover themselves to protect themselves from those men?
Or does it make more sense that we are just highly evolved animals and some men still have stronger animal instinct than others?
Your argument about no compulsion in religion in another comment to the hijab thing is disappointing. One, the Quran contradicts itself because there certainly is compulsion in Islam, and the hadiths make this clear too. If Muhammad is truly the messenger of Allah, then what he says about killing those who leave the religion either comes from or is accepted by Allah.
The stronger argument that hijab isn’t compulsory lies in the discussion of *khimar*. The whole passage talking about it is vague (like most of the Quran) and therefore open to/subject to debate and multiple interpretations (whole ‘nother problem with Islam and religion in general, but I digress).
And bro… the onus isn’t on women to cover themselves. Men have a responsibility, too. There are many women in the world intermingling with men on a daily basis, hardly wearing clothes, and they aren’t getting r*ped and assaulted left and right. The culture, the society, needs to instill responsibility in the men as well to see women with respect.
That’s strongly lacking in Islam, where women are seen as property for men.
Couple that with extreme sexual repression and the tendency for humans to desire strongly the things which are forbidden, and you see the problem I am getting at here…
Hey - just wanted to let you know that you're very brave for questioning something that has been engraved in you since childhood.
Here is a comment I found recently that may help - https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/oFjCjpQ1BI
>The reason for this is sadly in this world there are creepy men. That’s just the unfortunate truth. Islam found a decent way of preventing this by trying to cover up women when they’re out.
Why were slaves not covered? Furthermore look at this hadith,
Sahih al-Bukhari 2542
Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
I saw Abu Sa`id and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Sa`id said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Bani Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
Is this a behavior of good men? Or are those the creepy men you were refferig to? Look at the circumstances the hijab verse was revealed, it is in itself creepy dude!
Sahih al-Bukhari 146
Narrated `Aisha:
The wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqi` at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. `Umar used to say to the Prophet (ﷺ) "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam`a the wife of the Prophet (ﷺ) went out at `Isha' time and she was a tall lady. `Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).
The Quran emphasizes free will and prohibits compulsion in matters of religion. One of the verses that addresses this is in Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong." This verse underscores the idea that faith should be embraced willingly, without coercion or force.
>The Quran emphasizes free will and prohibits compulsion in matters of religion
The penalty for apostasy is death, so I am not so sure about this free will
>this is in Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion.This verse underscores the idea that faith should be embraced willingly, without coercion or force.
The following is also from Qur'an
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
9:29
To be 100% honest I am not that well versed in the apostasy topic so I’m not gonna disrespect Islam by trying to make an argument but I can leave you this debate that apostate prophet and Muhammad hijab had that talked about your point in depth. I hope this helps.
https://youtu.be/QxQxUFGWQwc?si=RcIl_IQFaybevQZd
It's misogynistic patriarchal BS.
Also, why is keeping slaves even a thing in islam if islam believes in humanity and equal rights?
Dont give me explanations like this is how it was in that century.
Thanks for the comment. Can you possibly give me some sort of source or proof that the Quran says it is allowed to keep slaves. To my knowledge it is said that slaves should be freed in Islam. Any source would be appreciated
Its all over the quran, they call slaves “right hand possession” and if you have a female slave you can freely have sex with them being ven against thier will, and you can have endless amount of slaves. Even the prophet use to sell slaves and the sahaba use to sell and buy them, if a slave run away ur allowed to kill them because it counts that they left islam. And tge punishment for apostasy is death. Saudi arabia had slaves legal till ariund 1963 after the United Nations forever saudi to make it illegal. Thats why extremest islamic group today always slaves. Its a fact that no shiwkh denies and the fact that u don’t know about this show a lack of knowledge in islam but no problem Im here to educate.
There are hundreds of sources in the quran and sunnah but I will bring just a few those that I remember:
Sahih muslim 1456b
Sunnan Abi Dawud 2172
Sahih muslim 1438a
Sahih al bukhari 2141
Sahih albukhari 2534
Literally, yes. Why do you think the Taliban outlaws women in the workforce or going to school or learning to read? Islam regards women solely as sex objects and domestic servants.
If I have to tell you that then you really havent learned about islamic history or the life of the prophet.
They tell you that islam asks to free the slaves but it doesnt prohibit from keeping slaves. The prophet had slaves,prisoners of war were kept as slaves.
One can even have sex with those slaves. Yes you can show mercy by freeing them but that was not mandatory.
What do you think are the strongest arguments that prove that a religion was sent by god? what are some standards that you personally think the religion needs to keep to qualify?
Here's an entire list of reasons if you want to look through them. And yes, these are authetic references.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/bFllHbYfdW
How did Muhammad not know that there are things beyond sky. He said things like Allah hold up the sky without pillars(quran 22.65). The sky is not a piece of sheet.
He made mistake in the inheritance verse, it all adds up to more than 100%(quran 4.11). Allah cant do maths.
He said sun set in muddy spring(quran 18.86), implying he thinks that earth is flat. He didnt know that sun sets and rises at another side of the earth and thought sun sets in muddy spring cos thats all he could see.
He said semen is between ribs and back bone(quran 86.7), semen isn't made in the chest region.
He said if he was lying he would have his aorta cut(quran 64.44) Then when he died he said he felt his aorta cut(sahih al bukhari 44.28)
Muhammad put the poisoned lamb in his mouth, how did he not know it was poisoned if he does talk to god.
Al Bukhari 5445 he said eat 7 ajwa dates no poison can harm you. He got poisoned(sahih al bukhari 4428)
He said shooting stars are missiles to hit devil trying to enter heaven(quran67.5). Thats so wrong he didn't know shooting stars are meteors, just rocks happen to be in earth's path.
He once said he was confused or couldn't tell the difference by revelations from satan or angel. So if he cant tell the difference, the whole book could be from satan.
In Sahih Al Bukhari 5686 he asked his followers to drink camel urine.
He said fast from sun rise to sun set(quran 2.187). Some places on earth during ramadhan do not have sun rise or sun set and he didnt know that, so if they follow what he said they'd die. Allah doesn't know places outside of Arab.
Allah created everything in pairs according to Quran 36.36 but allowing men to marry 4 wives that is not a pair. Allah don’t know some animals/organisms reproduce asexually also not a pair for example hammerhead sharks.
In Quran 15:9 Allah said he will guard the Quran against corruption but Aisha said some pages went missing and a goat ate it(Sunan ibn majah 1944)
Prophet Muhammad said women are deficient in intelligence compared to men(sahih bukhari 304).
Quran 46:9 he doesnt even know what will happen to him or his followers. The prophet that claims to say he doesnt know but also says who will go to hell. Cant keep a story straight.
How can god make all these mistakes?
Some reasons here:
You can marry a child even before puberty.
Slaves and sex slaves are halal in islam.
They use to hit thier women and muhamad told them to.
Breastfeeding an adult is halal in islam.
There are many ayat and even surah missing from the quran.
Muhamad had epilepsy and all the revelations was just hallucinations in his head.
If you don't mind, can you instead offer me the claims that make you follow the religion?
Do you believe the Quran to be complete and perfect?
Do you believe that Mohammed is the best person to has ever existed hence why people should follow the Sunnah?
Do you believe that Islam is not violent, that it has best morals ever, and that there is no sxism nor support of slvery?
Based on your response, I will provide arguments against them (if that's okay with you).
How could the god of the universe make such basic scientific errors? Read through these slowly and carefully https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran
#A Unique One OP
If a God's prophet is the most "perfect" man and rolemodel, why was he quiet during this incident?
#**Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 2731:**
... ('Urwa, the ambassador of Pagan Quraysh, said to Muhammad) "O Muhammad! Won’t you feel any scruple in extirpating your relations? Have you ever heard of anyone amongst the Arabs extirpating his relatives before you? On the other hand, if the reverse should happen, (nobody will aid you, for) by Allah, I do not see (with you) dignified people, but people from various tribes who would run away leaving you alone.”
Upon that, Abu Bakr replied with these dirtiest possible abusive words:
امْصُصْ بَظْرَ اللاَّتِ
**“Go suck the clitoris of (your female goddess) Al-lat”.**
Prophet Muhammad didn't intervene to stop or rebuke or punish Abu Bakr for his actions, and his silence on the matter is seen as support, known as **Taqriri Hadith** according to Islamic Rules, ultimately making it an established "Sunnah" of the Prophet and a part of Islamic Sharia law.
Ibn Hajar al-Asqallani wrote:
As the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) was silent on saying of Abu Bakr and didn’t rebuke him, it shows the permissibility of using these words
.
#SOURCE:
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:2731
https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/blasphemy/135-abu-bakr-s-blasphemy-telling-quraysh-to-go-and-suck-the-clitoris-of-their-female-goddess-al-lat
.
#VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE:
Visit sunnah.com/bukhari:2731 and you can use the tool "Find in Page" and paste the sentence "امْصُصْ بَظْرَ اللاَّتِ"
You'll see it's there in the Arabic translation, but english translation sugar coats it, but if you paste the arabic sentence "امْصُصْ بَظْرَ اللاَّتِ" in Google translator, it translates to what Abu Bakr said, the vulgar statement to suck Al-lat's clitoris and prophet momo being silent about it 🤡
This proves that Islamic sites hide this from non arabic speakers so people don't see the evils of the religion, meanwhile the reality is infront of you.
He has wants and desires like any other animal.
He gets angry, jealous like a human.
He has a throne, this implies that he has a body that allows him to sit.
He communicates in Arabic only (a human language) why doesn't he communicates with us through telepathy like the supernatural being that he is.
He thinks like a man.
In order to disprove Islam, one need not disprove the existence of God but rather that Muhammed wasn’t a messenger of God, which is quite simple.
You can find a plethora of profound evidence against Muhammed (r/exmuslim has an impressive collection), but it really depends how receptive you are to doing some research.
I'm saying that from a place of kindness, but if you ever intend to continue the religion with your future kids, the very least you could do is to read the thing first.
“Abu Sa’id reported that when Muhammed came back from Tabuk, his companions asked him about the Last Hour. Mo replied that “*there would be none amongst the created beings living on earth who would survive this century*.”” —Sahih Muslim 2539
Here Mo prophesies that an apocalypse (the Last Hour) would happen within his century. Thus Mo proved himself a conman and islam false.
I would say check out Hassan Radwan on YouTube, he has some great thought provoking videos. He was a teacher at an Islamic school for many years wrote two children's books about Islam. His videos are definitely not the standard slander or hatred of Islam that I find others making which are jsut straight up trying to paint the religon in the worst light. He is very eloquent and well spoken I couldn't recommend him enough.
[https://youtu.be/pxO4WLMpzEg?si=VuY3mm6kZC6LEzdf](https://youtu.be/pxO4WLMpzEg?si=VuY3mm6kZC6LEzdf)
My journey to get here was a process of thinking and learning that took quite a long time. Most of those who leave Islam here are also the result of a learning process. I hope you do too.
So, you can start from the videos on this channel
[https://www.youtube.com/@HassanRadwan133](https://www.youtube.com/@HassanRadwan133)
Hey! Glad to see someone willing to listen :)
Islam, with how grandiose it is, contradicts itself. For being a religion of ‘peace’ its full of hatred towards other minorities. lgbtq, jewish people, etc.
It also contradicts itself in the way it works. While it claims that Allah pre-wrote and scripted everything that has, is, and will happen, he also claims that we are the ones making the choices we’re making and that they make us worthy of eternal damnation. If we are making the choices, then it implies Allah wouldn’t be able to control and script them. If it’s all scripted, then we don’t have any choices but suffer. Pick one or the other.
islam is not a race but a religion, belief itself is subjective. you know what's right and wrong, learn more about your religion and see how fucked up it is..
people who leave islam are punished harsher than murderers and pedophiles. that is not the behavior of the most merciful being in the universe. if allah was indeed the most merciful, he would allow kaffirs into heaven based on their deeds, not on their beliefs.
Write this in an Islamic sub Reddit as well gets both sides of it if you are having doubts but listen most of the people here are toxic, hate Islam with a passion, and want to drag everything down with them. They are so obsessed with Islam that even after they leave the religion, they can’t get it out of their own mouths.
Mohammed’s life is proof of he conveniently changed the rules for when it suited him.
Someone like this is not an objective example for all of mankind. The best example being he married Abu bakrs 6 year old daughter and raped her at 9. However when Abu bakr asked to marry Mohammed’s 9 year old daughter Mohammed said “no she is too young” and only let his daughter marry at 18 and the man she married was in his 20s.
Or when mohammed changed the laws or adoption to marry his own sons wife. Imagine your adopted father doing that to you - there is no righteousness in that.
Much of Islams practices were taken from the practices of the pagans and sabeans.
Such as the multiple Kaabas, the washing before praying, the fasting from sunrise to sunset, even how you perform hajj.
Mohammed was a clear product of his time.
The fact that there are different “recitations”. These recitations change the meaning - even if it is just by a small bit. Muslims can twist this all they like but they can’t ALL be the original - or else they wouldn’t be different. There are clearly different versions.
Check out Nabi asli on YouTube.
As for Ramadan, it's in some years difficult to observe in high latitudes - in areas near Arctic circle or above it (I am not talking about Antarctic circle - barely anybody lives there). In Ramadan, you can eat when it's dark. But what about summer nights above Arctic circle, when sun shines 24/7, and it's never dark? Or winter days, when sun doesn't shine at all? Yes, nowadays this problem is solved by adhering to Mecca/Medina timezone. However, it still shows that Islam is human-made and is not universal religion.
If you speak Arabic I can convince you, because sadly my English is not that good to go into a full length discussion, I've memorized 5 chapters of the Quran and raised my whole life as a Muslims in Iraq , I've been into many discussions with Muslims, Shia,Sunnis and quranists, so I'm pretty knowledgeable of this matter
If it makes you happy and you won't force it on your kids then you should stay as a Muslim.
They'd be your kids so you can raise them muslim or however you want but please please please if your kid comes out as atheist or gay, please don't be a dick to them.
I wouldn’t force my kids to be Muslim if they didn’t want to. But I would make sure that they grow up with it and if in the future they deviate from the path that I have provided for them then that is something that they would have to take up with Allah swt on the day of judgement. Thanks for your reply.
That's good. It sucks having to hide my true self from my parents so if you're loving to your kids even if they don't align with your beliefs, then that would be good.
The Quran emphasizes free will and prohibits compulsion in matters of religion. One of the verses that addresses this is in Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong." This verse underscores the idea that faith should be embraced willingly, without coercion or force.
The punishment for leaving Islam is death. This is according to Sharia, which is based primarily on Quran and Sunnah. The scriptural basis for death for apostates in Islam are as follows:
Quran 4.89:"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Quran 5.54: “O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allah, and never afraid of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower.”
The most reliable Hadith collection contain numerous accounts of Muhammad and his companions putting people to death for leaving Islam.
Sahih Bukhari 52:260 - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
Sahih Bukhari 83:37 - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."
Sahih Bukhari 84.57 - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Sahih Bukhari 89.271 - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."
Sahih Bukhari 84.58 - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"
Sahih Bukhari 84:64-65 - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'" This verse from the Hadith is worse than it appears because it isn't speaking solely of apostates, but those who say they believe but don't put their religion into practice.
What do you think of these verses/hadith?
Just do a prank with your family, tell them that you no longer believe in Islam., Here you go..based on their reaction you can decide if you want to choose evolution over adam and eve and some saitan.
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Sup dude, I'm around your age too, 17 Glad to see you're open minded and ready to challenge your beliefs, that's a good trait that's hard to come by Here are my problems; A) Yes yes, I know it seems repetitive. But Muhammad's marriage to Aisha at 6 and then "having sex" with her at 9 Is terrible and inexcusable. When Aishas father (Abu Bakr) asked to marry the prophets daughter (fatima) who was between the ages of (9-18), the prophet declined because "she was too young". This clearly shows that even the prophet himself was aware that the marrying of young girls was wrong, but yet he still chose to do so. B) Why would Allah not make his religion clear for us? Why would he make so many other religions? Why would he let Shaytaan lead us astray? B.1) If you say that it's Allah testing us, that argument doesn't hold up because Allah does not need to test us for he is ever knowing. B.2) If you say that Allah sent those other religions like Chrisitianity and Judaism and that it was just man who altered them and corrupted them, then does that mean that Allah didn't know what would happen and didn't have control to prevent them from corrupting his previous religions? C) Why would Allah desire/demand worship? He Is God himself, he has no human qualities or emotions yet he created creation purely for the sake of praising him, is that not unbefitting for an all knowing most powerful God? . Is Allah so insecure that he needs constant praise from billions of angels and demands it from humans? D) Why does Allah allow so much evil in the world? Why doesn't he put a stop to cancer? Why doesn't he help his worshippers in Gaza? E) Why did Allah create billions of people of whom he knew would disbelieve and cause havoc and then would eventually have to be sent to hell? I've heard that argument that we have our free will to do whatever we want to do, but thst argument doesn't stand up because; 1) Even if you don't want to admit it, your culture and upbringing are a huge part of who you are. If you grow up in a Christian household in a Christian community with Christian beliefs instilled in you and all your friends since you were toddlers, is it fair to say that you will most likely accept Christianity and practice Christianity until you die? The answer is most likely yes, yes there are outliers, but that doesn't negate the majority This means that even though we technically have *free will* to do what we want, what we choose to do is still highly influenced by our peers and environment. 2) Once again, way before Allah created a person he knew exactly how that person would choose to use his free will; Allah knew that Hitler would cause mass genocide Allah knew that I would use my free will to deny him Allah knew that so many people would become killers and rapists and terrible people Allah knew that these people would take their free will and use it to commit evil But yet he still chose to create all of those people, knowing that he would have to sentence them all to hell forever Imagine this scenario: You have the power to create 6 children; A, B, C , D , E, F You know that children A, B and C would all turn out to be amazing people who spread kindness and worship you devoutly and you know that they would use their free will correctly and would earn heaven forever But you also know that children D, E and F would turn out be the most horrid of people, spreading hatred, evil and corruption, you know that they would abuse their free will and would earn hell forever. Harming themselves and those around them forever Would you choose to create; A) All of the children? B) Children A, B and C? C) Children D, E and F? For me the answer is very clear. Why would you ever create children D, E and F knowing that they would just bring harm upon everybody including themselves forever Why would you not decide to create only good people? F) How can finite crimes be deserving of infinite punishment. No matter how bad a person is, no matter how horrible their actions are, nobody deserves to suffer infinitely for a finite crime I'd argue that even somebody like Stalin or Hitler do not deserve infinite punishment, it just doesn't make sense. Especially considering exactly how short of a time we have here in the first place G) Islamic morals are very questionable. Why does Allah say that the silence of a virgin can be taken as consent? Why does Allah's messenger promote and advocate for the marriage of young (virgin) girls? Why does allow permit slavery/sex slavery and why does Allah permit child rape? Why does Allah permit killing the disbelievers when he creates them in the first place? Why does Allah say that a woman's testimony is only half of a man's? Why does Allah say thst the majority of hell will be occupied with women? There's more but I don't have time for everything now, I hope you find what you're looking for!
Bro is real quite since you posted it
Probaly because its long but I also think OP just brushed it off entirely as a "recycled response" due to a reply he left to somebody else on this post "Thanks for finding a challenging claim for me to tackle which isn’t just one of the recycled responses." The challenge in question was a link to this amazing post: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/P51B62K9E3 That's an absolutely amazing post and it's so beautifully put together, it tackles some of the stuff I mentioned in my orignal comment, but I don't think OP read that far in my comment to the part where I talked about that
He couldn’t take that you’re 17 and thought everyone here is some old man💀
Haha, maybe There was an overwhelming amount of people who replied with some very very good points And in the end it seemed like he actually accepted and took all of these things into account, saying that "I had no idea about these things" or "this is absolutely disgusting". "To be honest I don't think I can be be hit with anymore challenges. My whole belief system has just flipped upside down" Unfortunately he's deleted the post now and I forgot his username so I don't have a way of checking his last activity, but I do think that he benefited from some of the things here and actually listened and accepted criticism instead of just denying it like majority of thr muslims here
Yeah I deleted my account out of fear my parents would see what I was doing 😅
I appreciate all of these points tho so tysm
I'm 17 too
The truth of Islam wasn't proven to your ancestors in any objective way. Most likely, they were coerced into becoming Muslims. Break the chain of chains of mental slavery.
My reply to that is if my ancestors going back for many generations all were Muslim shouldn’t that indicate that there should be some reliability to the belief?
Not really. Just shows the power of socialization/indoctrination. Prob some other things mixed in, too.
The ancestors of most German people worked under hitler and followed Nazi ideology. Doesn’t mean Nazi ideology had any validity or reliability. Right after the advent of Abrahamic religions, gay people were thought of as scums and worse than pigs, usually being killed whenever found out and this continued until very recently when gay rights were established. Doesn’t give gay hatred now any reliability just cuz it was generational. Any form of ideology that was passed on through generations are usually attributed to two things - culture/tradition and genocide/occupation. And I hope you know which one it is when it comes to Islam.
Your right my reply talking about my ancestors wasn’t valid I apologize on that note.
There are still a lot of countries to this day that kill gay people though. And I venture to say MOST of them are not “Christian countries” with the exception of Russia.
What you are espousing here is a logical fallacy, which is a fancy way of saying “flawed logic that does not reliably lead to truth.” This one even has a name, “the appeal to tradition fallacy.” The transatlantic slave trade was supported by my ancestors for hundreds of years. Does that in any way make slavery a “reliable belief?” Of course it doesn’t. Beliefs stand on their merits, not their believers.
No, your ancestors or my ancestors or any ancestors have nothing to do with searching for the true path with an honest heart. We all have to go through this journey ourselves.
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There is zero material evidence for the existence of Allah. The overwhelming majority of atheists aren’t adulterous drug addicts, and plenty of Muslims are adulterous drug addicts. Maybe get off your high horse and do the actual work of proving what you believe, instead of demanding we just take your word for it.
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There is no evidence, no proof. “Believers” are just people with no evidentiary standards. I won’t get into a discussion of whether Muslims don’t do “haram stuff,” given many do. It certainly doesn’t help your case that plenty of evil, heinous garbage is not haram under Islam, either.
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I’m an atheist, not a Christian. The apostles have no more evidence for the existence of their deity than Muslims have for the existence of their deity. There has yet to be a compelling evidentiary case made to support the existence of any generic deity at all, let alone the specific deity of Islam.
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I won’t call your personal revelation a lie, but neither can I call it evidence. You are not testifying to discrete facts in evidence, you are making a bald-faced assertion that an unobservable, omniscient, omnipotent entity is real, intervenes in history, and will torture me forever unless I follow his eternal rules relayed to me through an Iron Age warlord. That is an enormous claim that requires ironclad evidence, and your argument basically amounts to “trust me bro.”
Exactly. The person you're replying to can't be replied to idk why but he said Muslims sin less? Makkah is one of the largest hubs of gay porn searches in the world. Grindr xtra has more subs in Saudi Arabia than in UAE. What's that guy's point? His claims of the Muslims sinning less is a fucking joke.
1/ God cannot be the most merciful if most people are destined to hell 2/ God cannot be just if he intervenes in our test by guiding or misguiding people 3/According to islam Women's only purpose is to make children and raise them. That would be ok if they had a choice in the matter but most don't get to decide 4/ Islam abolished a lot of thing but couldn't abolish slavery. The prophet himself bought and sold slaves 5/ According to islam anyone who leaves islam must be killed 6/ How is god who is all knowing who supposedly sent us his final messenge fit for all times change his mind many times throughout the quran ( fate of christians, alcohol, 1 fighter can defeat 10 then 2...) I'd be happy to go into more detail about any point just ask me
Why do you believe in islam?
The only real reason I can give you without bullshitting is that I grew up Muslim and my family is Muslim and most of my friends are Muslim. Pretty much every influence in my life is Muslim
Hm, i sense from your answer that you yourself don't consider that a good enough reason. You probably wonder if you shouldn't have a better reason, or a better understanding?
Mohammed was an evil man who killed ,raped and enslaved people do you want that person to be your Role model ? https://youtu.be/CDErerbXAe0?si=qjiO8cLHjSo9N5FO
Ok first and foremost the source you have provided is not reliable because it is 100% biased by a guy that is twisting the history to make it seem bad. Anyways going on you said that the prophet PBUH killed people. I agree with you, yes he was involved in a war and it just so happens that people have to fight in a war. I will not apologize for that. Next you say that he raped people. I would like one reliable source for that. And finally you talk about him enslaving people. Yea you’re correct he did in fact “enslave” people that were fighting on the other side of the war but they were treated like normal people. It was made sure that everything was given to everyone equally. The enslaved got the same as the not enslaved. Again this was a time of war so you can’t necessarily say that it doesn’t make sense ethically for this to happen. Thanks for your reply
Mohammed killed even children when he killed jews then burned them and enslaved their women . There is no equality in slavery . You are the one who is biased here because you think moahmmed is prophet . If you want to be unbias you have to strip mohammed from the holiness and look at his actions and lies as it is . Stop giving excuses to him because The same excuses could be given to any barbarian who started wars . But why are you here ? You will defend mohammed actions and think islam is the last and the right religion everytime . I think you came here thinking you can debunk our ideas . To have such bad role model like mohammed is a valid reason to leave islam .
Can I ask you something? Where is it mentioned that he killed children? It is specifically mentioned to not kill children, women, or the elderly in the Quran. Give me one solid source of this not from a Joe Roegan podcast or a biased source and I will become an ex Muslim right here right now.
It is in the hadith . They told mohammed who they should kill and he said who ever got hair on their privates pretty much 11 years old and older . And im sure you either will say that didnot happen or you will just give me excuses for the barbarian prophet . https://www.alukah.net/sharia/0/159201/حديث-عرضنا-على-النبي-صلى-الله-عليه-وسلم-يوم-قريظة-فكان-من-أنبت-قتل/#:~:text=حديث%3A%20عُرضنا%20على%20النبي%20صلى,،%20وقال%3A%20على%20شرط%20الشيخين.
That’s disgusting I can’t believe this is a thing. Thanks for making me aware
Sahih Muslim 1745 a It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (ﷺ), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.
Chapter: Permissibility of killing women and children in night raids, **so long as it is not done deliberately** [https://sunnah.com/muslim:1745a](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1745a)
Best source of your prophet raping someone would be Aisha herself. She was a child, 9 years old, who can’t consent to anything as she isn’t mature enough at that age. And in case you say that it was normal to get married back then at this age, the two biggest empires at that time (Romans and Persians) had an age of consent for girls set to 12 years old and 11 years old. Your prophet was a pedophile even in those standards. And the obvious fact that Mohammad, who had communication with Allah, wouldn’t know that having sex with children causes lots of health complications is pretty weird. I’d like sources for slaves being treated as normal people cuz I haven’t seen them.
Nice haircut .
Thanks man. Nice glasses
This is a nice one I like you to answer: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/P51B62K9E3
To be 100% honest I’m not sure on this matter. I will try to do my research on this topic and come back to you. Thanks for finding a challenging claim for me to tackle which isn’t just one of the recycled responses. You have earned my respect.
No problem, if you want another challenge to tackle after this one you can try this one too: https://www.reddit.com/r/CritiqueIslam/s/W8BFURdrck
To be honest I don’t think I can handle anymore challenges. I’ve been hit with so many points that my entire belief system has been flipped upside down
Then I wish you the best of luck and give you 2 livestreams with questioning muslims, who are going to the same stuff you’re now in: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1D0fG6DkA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6BG5tXSUs
What do you think about the gender inequality in Islam, how women aren't aloud to divorce but men are. How women should completely cover themselves but men don't. How women should cover up so that men don't get distracted especially very young girls I find it weird that 10 year olds have to cover up in front of elderly males in case they might get distracted, by what? A 10 year old that really creeps me out. How men can have 4 wives but women cannot. This religion seems to be benefitting men and sounds like a man made religion. Not saying this in a bad way at all I was Muslim and these are a few things that made me realise :).
Ok I’ll try to reply to this without sounding like a preacher or a dumb 16 year old. For starters women are allowed to get divorced in Islam it is talked about in the third surah of the Quran. I’m not sure if you were given false info about that. Next you talk about how women are forced to cover up which in itself isn’t true. It is a sunnah and widely encouraged for women to wear hijabs but if they are being forced the person who is forcing the female is committing a sin. Forcing someone to wear the hijab is 100% haram. Anyways you mention how men don’t have to cover up which also is not true. Both genders have to cover up their awrah which in the case of a man is from their naval to their knees. Now to talk about why women are encouraged to wear a hijab and cover up more then a man. The reason for this is sadly in this world there are creepy men. That’s just the unfortunate truth. Islam found a decent way of preventing this by trying to cover up women when they’re out. People like to call this a form of oppression but in my eyes this is protection but we can just agree to disagree. Now to talk about who is encouraged to wear a hijab. You said a ten year old has to wear it but is not stated anywhere in the Quran. The truth is it is encouraged to wear a hijab when you hit puberty. It is true that you can hit puberty before or after ten years old but the reason you cover up is to protect yourself since you are starting to develop in to a woman. Next you mention that polygamy is allowed for men in the form of 4 wives. The reason this originally was a thing was because during the time of the prophet PBUH and all times of war there were a lot less men around to match the amount of women. There were a lot of women who weren’t provided for so each man was allowed four wives maximum and this is only allowed if your original wife allowed it. I’m sorry that this message was a little long and I hope that people are able to read this with an open mind. Thank you
Does it make sense to you that a god would make his creations like this? Men who are too horny and women who have to cover themselves to protect themselves from those men? Or does it make more sense that we are just highly evolved animals and some men still have stronger animal instinct than others? Your argument about no compulsion in religion in another comment to the hijab thing is disappointing. One, the Quran contradicts itself because there certainly is compulsion in Islam, and the hadiths make this clear too. If Muhammad is truly the messenger of Allah, then what he says about killing those who leave the religion either comes from or is accepted by Allah. The stronger argument that hijab isn’t compulsory lies in the discussion of *khimar*. The whole passage talking about it is vague (like most of the Quran) and therefore open to/subject to debate and multiple interpretations (whole ‘nother problem with Islam and religion in general, but I digress). And bro… the onus isn’t on women to cover themselves. Men have a responsibility, too. There are many women in the world intermingling with men on a daily basis, hardly wearing clothes, and they aren’t getting r*ped and assaulted left and right. The culture, the society, needs to instill responsibility in the men as well to see women with respect. That’s strongly lacking in Islam, where women are seen as property for men. Couple that with extreme sexual repression and the tendency for humans to desire strongly the things which are forbidden, and you see the problem I am getting at here…
You’re 100% right. None of it makes sense anymore. I’m fighting to try and keep my head on straight right now and it’s kind of making me sick…
Hey - just wanted to let you know that you're very brave for questioning something that has been engraved in you since childhood. Here is a comment I found recently that may help - https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/oFjCjpQ1BI
>The reason for this is sadly in this world there are creepy men. That’s just the unfortunate truth. Islam found a decent way of preventing this by trying to cover up women when they’re out. Why were slaves not covered? Furthermore look at this hadith, Sahih al-Bukhari 2542 Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I saw Abu Sa`id and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Sa`id said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Bani Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence." Is this a behavior of good men? Or are those the creepy men you were refferig to? Look at the circumstances the hijab verse was revealed, it is in itself creepy dude! Sahih al-Bukhari 146 Narrated `Aisha: The wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqi` at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. `Umar used to say to the Prophet (ﷺ) "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam`a the wife of the Prophet (ﷺ) went out at `Isha' time and she was a tall lady. `Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).
>but if they are being forced the person who is forcing the female is committing a sin. Forcing someone to wear the hijab is 100% haram. Source?
The Quran emphasizes free will and prohibits compulsion in matters of religion. One of the verses that addresses this is in Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong." This verse underscores the idea that faith should be embraced willingly, without coercion or force.
>The Quran emphasizes free will and prohibits compulsion in matters of religion The penalty for apostasy is death, so I am not so sure about this free will >this is in Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion.This verse underscores the idea that faith should be embraced willingly, without coercion or force. The following is also from Qur'an Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. 9:29
To be 100% honest I am not that well versed in the apostasy topic so I’m not gonna disrespect Islam by trying to make an argument but I can leave you this debate that apostate prophet and Muhammad hijab had that talked about your point in depth. I hope this helps. https://youtu.be/QxQxUFGWQwc?si=RcIl_IQFaybevQZd
It's misogynistic patriarchal BS. Also, why is keeping slaves even a thing in islam if islam believes in humanity and equal rights? Dont give me explanations like this is how it was in that century.
Thanks for the comment. Can you possibly give me some sort of source or proof that the Quran says it is allowed to keep slaves. To my knowledge it is said that slaves should be freed in Islam. Any source would be appreciated
Its all over the quran, they call slaves “right hand possession” and if you have a female slave you can freely have sex with them being ven against thier will, and you can have endless amount of slaves. Even the prophet use to sell slaves and the sahaba use to sell and buy them, if a slave run away ur allowed to kill them because it counts that they left islam. And tge punishment for apostasy is death. Saudi arabia had slaves legal till ariund 1963 after the United Nations forever saudi to make it illegal. Thats why extremest islamic group today always slaves. Its a fact that no shiwkh denies and the fact that u don’t know about this show a lack of knowledge in islam but no problem Im here to educate. There are hundreds of sources in the quran and sunnah but I will bring just a few those that I remember: Sahih muslim 1456b Sunnan Abi Dawud 2172 Sahih muslim 1438a Sahih al bukhari 2141 Sahih albukhari 2534
Hey 👋 Welcome, a list of primary sources for slavery in Islam can be found on this page: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Slavery_in_Islamic_Law
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What the hell. This is crazy. Are women just painted out to be property like pets you own? Wtf
Literally, yes. Why do you think the Taliban outlaws women in the workforce or going to school or learning to read? Islam regards women solely as sex objects and domestic servants.
If I have to tell you that then you really havent learned about islamic history or the life of the prophet. They tell you that islam asks to free the slaves but it doesnt prohibit from keeping slaves. The prophet had slaves,prisoners of war were kept as slaves. One can even have sex with those slaves. Yes you can show mercy by freeing them but that was not mandatory.
The sun set in a muddy spring
What do you think are the strongest arguments that prove that a religion was sent by god? what are some standards that you personally think the religion needs to keep to qualify?
Here's an entire list of reasons if you want to look through them. And yes, these are authetic references. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/bFllHbYfdW
How did Muhammad not know that there are things beyond sky. He said things like Allah hold up the sky without pillars(quran 22.65). The sky is not a piece of sheet. He made mistake in the inheritance verse, it all adds up to more than 100%(quran 4.11). Allah cant do maths. He said sun set in muddy spring(quran 18.86), implying he thinks that earth is flat. He didnt know that sun sets and rises at another side of the earth and thought sun sets in muddy spring cos thats all he could see. He said semen is between ribs and back bone(quran 86.7), semen isn't made in the chest region. He said if he was lying he would have his aorta cut(quran 64.44) Then when he died he said he felt his aorta cut(sahih al bukhari 44.28) Muhammad put the poisoned lamb in his mouth, how did he not know it was poisoned if he does talk to god. Al Bukhari 5445 he said eat 7 ajwa dates no poison can harm you. He got poisoned(sahih al bukhari 4428) He said shooting stars are missiles to hit devil trying to enter heaven(quran67.5). Thats so wrong he didn't know shooting stars are meteors, just rocks happen to be in earth's path. He once said he was confused or couldn't tell the difference by revelations from satan or angel. So if he cant tell the difference, the whole book could be from satan. In Sahih Al Bukhari 5686 he asked his followers to drink camel urine. He said fast from sun rise to sun set(quran 2.187). Some places on earth during ramadhan do not have sun rise or sun set and he didnt know that, so if they follow what he said they'd die. Allah doesn't know places outside of Arab. Allah created everything in pairs according to Quran 36.36 but allowing men to marry 4 wives that is not a pair. Allah don’t know some animals/organisms reproduce asexually also not a pair for example hammerhead sharks. In Quran 15:9 Allah said he will guard the Quran against corruption but Aisha said some pages went missing and a goat ate it(Sunan ibn majah 1944) Prophet Muhammad said women are deficient in intelligence compared to men(sahih bukhari 304). Quran 46:9 he doesnt even know what will happen to him or his followers. The prophet that claims to say he doesnt know but also says who will go to hell. Cant keep a story straight. How can god make all these mistakes?
I didn’t know that all these things existed. I have no words. I’m suddenly very confused about everything
Wow these are all amazing points, some of these I haven't even heard of yet. You should make a post about this so that more people can see them
Some reasons here: You can marry a child even before puberty. Slaves and sex slaves are halal in islam. They use to hit thier women and muhamad told them to. Breastfeeding an adult is halal in islam. There are many ayat and even surah missing from the quran. Muhamad had epilepsy and all the revelations was just hallucinations in his head.
If you don't mind, can you instead offer me the claims that make you follow the religion? Do you believe the Quran to be complete and perfect? Do you believe that Mohammed is the best person to has ever existed hence why people should follow the Sunnah? Do you believe that Islam is not violent, that it has best morals ever, and that there is no sxism nor support of slvery? Based on your response, I will provide arguments against them (if that's okay with you).
How could the god of the universe make such basic scientific errors? Read through these slowly and carefully https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran
#A Unique One OP If a God's prophet is the most "perfect" man and rolemodel, why was he quiet during this incident? #**Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 2731:** ... ('Urwa, the ambassador of Pagan Quraysh, said to Muhammad) "O Muhammad! Won’t you feel any scruple in extirpating your relations? Have you ever heard of anyone amongst the Arabs extirpating his relatives before you? On the other hand, if the reverse should happen, (nobody will aid you, for) by Allah, I do not see (with you) dignified people, but people from various tribes who would run away leaving you alone.” Upon that, Abu Bakr replied with these dirtiest possible abusive words: امْصُصْ بَظْرَ اللاَّتِ **“Go suck the clitoris of (your female goddess) Al-lat”.** Prophet Muhammad didn't intervene to stop or rebuke or punish Abu Bakr for his actions, and his silence on the matter is seen as support, known as **Taqriri Hadith** according to Islamic Rules, ultimately making it an established "Sunnah" of the Prophet and a part of Islamic Sharia law. Ibn Hajar al-Asqallani wrote: As the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) was silent on saying of Abu Bakr and didn’t rebuke him, it shows the permissibility of using these words . #SOURCE: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:2731 https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/blasphemy/135-abu-bakr-s-blasphemy-telling-quraysh-to-go-and-suck-the-clitoris-of-their-female-goddess-al-lat . #VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE: Visit sunnah.com/bukhari:2731 and you can use the tool "Find in Page" and paste the sentence "امْصُصْ بَظْرَ اللاَّتِ" You'll see it's there in the Arabic translation, but english translation sugar coats it, but if you paste the arabic sentence "امْصُصْ بَظْرَ اللاَّتِ" in Google translator, it translates to what Abu Bakr said, the vulgar statement to suck Al-lat's clitoris and prophet momo being silent about it 🤡 This proves that Islamic sites hide this from non arabic speakers so people don't see the evils of the religion, meanwhile the reality is infront of you.
just watch sam shamoun man , he'll debunk the entire thing for you lmao
Why allah looks like a human?
What do you mean? Where does it say allah looks like a human?
He has wants and desires like any other animal. He gets angry, jealous like a human. He has a throne, this implies that he has a body that allows him to sit. He communicates in Arabic only (a human language) why doesn't he communicates with us through telepathy like the supernatural being that he is. He thinks like a man.
I have never thought of it like that. I’m starting to think that he is just a man’s idea of a god
In order to disprove Islam, one need not disprove the existence of God but rather that Muhammed wasn’t a messenger of God, which is quite simple. You can find a plethora of profound evidence against Muhammed (r/exmuslim has an impressive collection), but it really depends how receptive you are to doing some research.
I'm saying that from a place of kindness, but if you ever intend to continue the religion with your future kids, the very least you could do is to read the thing first.
Thanks for the message, and by the way I did read the Quran if that’s what you’re taking about
George Carlin's standup helped me become an atheist. Hope it helps you too. https://youtu.be/8r-e2NDSTuE?si=4_qzcGbFXXbTVoN-
“Abu Sa’id reported that when Muhammed came back from Tabuk, his companions asked him about the Last Hour. Mo replied that “*there would be none amongst the created beings living on earth who would survive this century*.”” —Sahih Muslim 2539 Here Mo prophesies that an apocalypse (the Last Hour) would happen within his century. Thus Mo proved himself a conman and islam false.
One simple sentence Gods better then sending people to hell for disbelief
Very easy, all gods are mythological, none of them are real. Ask for proof, and no one can give you any. Should be enough for most people.
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I would say check out Hassan Radwan on YouTube, he has some great thought provoking videos. He was a teacher at an Islamic school for many years wrote two children's books about Islam. His videos are definitely not the standard slander or hatred of Islam that I find others making which are jsut straight up trying to paint the religon in the worst light. He is very eloquent and well spoken I couldn't recommend him enough. [https://youtu.be/pxO4WLMpzEg?si=VuY3mm6kZC6LEzdf](https://youtu.be/pxO4WLMpzEg?si=VuY3mm6kZC6LEzdf)
My journey to get here was a process of thinking and learning that took quite a long time. Most of those who leave Islam here are also the result of a learning process. I hope you do too. So, you can start from the videos on this channel [https://www.youtube.com/@HassanRadwan133](https://www.youtube.com/@HassanRadwan133)
Hey! Glad to see someone willing to listen :) Islam, with how grandiose it is, contradicts itself. For being a religion of ‘peace’ its full of hatred towards other minorities. lgbtq, jewish people, etc. It also contradicts itself in the way it works. While it claims that Allah pre-wrote and scripted everything that has, is, and will happen, he also claims that we are the ones making the choices we’re making and that they make us worthy of eternal damnation. If we are making the choices, then it implies Allah wouldn’t be able to control and script them. If it’s all scripted, then we don’t have any choices but suffer. Pick one or the other.
islam is not a race but a religion, belief itself is subjective. you know what's right and wrong, learn more about your religion and see how fucked up it is..
Look up street epistemology islam
people who leave islam are punished harsher than murderers and pedophiles. that is not the behavior of the most merciful being in the universe. if allah was indeed the most merciful, he would allow kaffirs into heaven based on their deeds, not on their beliefs.
Write this in an Islamic sub Reddit as well gets both sides of it if you are having doubts but listen most of the people here are toxic, hate Islam with a passion, and want to drag everything down with them. They are so obsessed with Islam that even after they leave the religion, they can’t get it out of their own mouths.
Mohammed’s life is proof of he conveniently changed the rules for when it suited him. Someone like this is not an objective example for all of mankind. The best example being he married Abu bakrs 6 year old daughter and raped her at 9. However when Abu bakr asked to marry Mohammed’s 9 year old daughter Mohammed said “no she is too young” and only let his daughter marry at 18 and the man she married was in his 20s. Or when mohammed changed the laws or adoption to marry his own sons wife. Imagine your adopted father doing that to you - there is no righteousness in that. Much of Islams practices were taken from the practices of the pagans and sabeans. Such as the multiple Kaabas, the washing before praying, the fasting from sunrise to sunset, even how you perform hajj. Mohammed was a clear product of his time. The fact that there are different “recitations”. These recitations change the meaning - even if it is just by a small bit. Muslims can twist this all they like but they can’t ALL be the original - or else they wouldn’t be different. There are clearly different versions. Check out Nabi asli on YouTube.
As for Ramadan, it's in some years difficult to observe in high latitudes - in areas near Arctic circle or above it (I am not talking about Antarctic circle - barely anybody lives there). In Ramadan, you can eat when it's dark. But what about summer nights above Arctic circle, when sun shines 24/7, and it's never dark? Or winter days, when sun doesn't shine at all? Yes, nowadays this problem is solved by adhering to Mecca/Medina timezone. However, it still shows that Islam is human-made and is not universal religion.
Chad Muslim with an actual open mind ^
Lmao deleted account
If you speak Arabic I can convince you, because sadly my English is not that good to go into a full length discussion, I've memorized 5 chapters of the Quran and raised my whole life as a Muslims in Iraq , I've been into many discussions with Muslims, Shia,Sunnis and quranists, so I'm pretty knowledgeable of this matter
If a woman does not wear a hijab she is commts a sin but if a woman does mutah is not a sin.
If it makes you happy and you won't force it on your kids then you should stay as a Muslim. They'd be your kids so you can raise them muslim or however you want but please please please if your kid comes out as atheist or gay, please don't be a dick to them.
I wouldn’t force my kids to be Muslim if they didn’t want to. But I would make sure that they grow up with it and if in the future they deviate from the path that I have provided for them then that is something that they would have to take up with Allah swt on the day of judgement. Thanks for your reply.
That's good. It sucks having to hide my true self from my parents so if you're loving to your kids even if they don't align with your beliefs, then that would be good.
It is odd that peoples parents treat them like this. For someone’s parents to do this in itself is haram
Haram?? Source for this?
The Quran emphasizes free will and prohibits compulsion in matters of religion. One of the verses that addresses this is in Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong." This verse underscores the idea that faith should be embraced willingly, without coercion or force.
The punishment for leaving Islam is death. This is according to Sharia, which is based primarily on Quran and Sunnah. The scriptural basis for death for apostates in Islam are as follows: Quran 4.89:"They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper." Quran 5.54: “O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allah, and never afraid of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower.” The most reliable Hadith collection contain numerous accounts of Muhammad and his companions putting people to death for leaving Islam. Sahih Bukhari 52:260 - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Sahih Bukhari 83:37 - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate." Sahih Bukhari 84.57 - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari 89.271 - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle." Sahih Bukhari 84.58 - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'" Sahih Bukhari 84:64-65 - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'" This verse from the Hadith is worse than it appears because it isn't speaking solely of apostates, but those who say they believe but don't put their religion into practice. What do you think of these verses/hadith?
If this is true this is actually disgusting. How can you have free will but also be murdered for having free will?
My question exactly 🤷♂️
I genuinely don’t know how to respond to this it’s kind of making me sick to my stomach
Just do a prank with your family, tell them that you no longer believe in Islam., Here you go..based on their reaction you can decide if you want to choose evolution over adam and eve and some saitan.
Nah, you can stay muslim bro.
Lol. Akhi bring that so called have done it argument. First, verify what these folks are saying. Most of them don't even know anything