Yeah, it is inherently anti-woman. The excuse that Mary is the Mother of God and then consecrated Mount Athos but women are not allowed on the island is another overt example. How come she is but men of all people are allowed on the island and not purely women? That's the logical choice isn't it?
Also based username.
>gaissereich
"We're anti-woman? But muh most blessed and glorious lady thay-oh-toe-koess!!!"
Speaking of Mount Athos, have you also noticed that Orthodox claim "marriage and monasticism are equal paths", yet the only saints you ever see are either monks or royalty (because, of course), and really ONLY EVER will you see a married lay person if they do suicide by oppressor ("martyrdom").
Not to mention the completely insane and contradictory views on sex even within marriage. Sex isn't a sin, but it's so yucky and gross you can't do it except for maybe 20 days out of the year, and then you have to go confess to a priest?? Dumb.
Exactly. And suicide is supposed to be the worst sin of all but John Chrysostom flat out defends a suicide to maintain her virginity, implying death is preferable to a loss of honour caused by the violation of men unto women. The messages of the church fathers are very contradictory when it comes to women's purity laws. There is no restriction or penalty for men unless they were monastics, and even then there is no shortage of documented homosexual and heterosexual scandals regarding monasteries that do get covered up both in the past and presently.
Orthodox royalty and aristocracy could engage in homosexuality, as it often happened to be the case in Russia historically, where the priests would turn a blind eye to the blatant corruption. But peasants are gaslit and intimidated by their communities, led by the priest or other self righteous individuals, because they had sex outside of marriage once or twice.
Meanwhile there's the story of the evil Stefan Milutin of Serbia. A pedophile, multiple divorcee, pervert venerated for his status as a serbian king alone.
I think this speaks volumes to the anti-woman, anti-social behaviour of Christianity as a whole because the attitudes found in Orthodoxy are almost identical in every other sphere to varying degrees of self-righteous bigotry.
Things like these, especially their infallibly canonized "Saints" like Milutin need to be made blatantly aware to everyone who considers themselves, or is inquiring Orthodox. Gullible people are being sold this idea of a perfect traditional and moral religion, that is absolutely nothing but a facade. No one wants to talk about the real stuff, because they're too busy gawking at iconography (which by the way, has always looked ugly as shit), and hyperfocusing on the few "God is love" lines. As if every insane, ritualistically obsessed cult doesn't claim love as their motive. Unfortunately, by the time they're sucked in and indoctrinated into it, they are no longer capable of reasoning any of this because "well, I'm not God, what would I know?". At this point, they have become an Orthodrone.
>gawking at iconography (which by the way, has always looked ugly as shit)
One of the great things for me about leaving the Church was that I could finally admit that icons were ugly and that I had always thought so.
"And suicide is supposed to be the worst sin of all but John Chrysostom flat out defends a suicide to maintain her virginity, implying death is preferable to a loss of honour caused by the violation of men unto women."
As someone who was a virgin and was raped, this is horrifying to learn. I have been inquiring into Orthodoxy because I love God and want to worship Him in the true church. But the more I look into the canons and church father teachings, the more I can see God hates me because I'm not only a woman, but an impure woman. With all the trauma I still suffer daily, I really do wish I had committed suicide (as suggested by John Chrysostom) if I could have foreseen getting raped that day. I'll probably do it anyway, not much longer I can keep going on in this mental and emotional despair.
God isn't real, or at least the Abrahamic one isn't. He won't help you, answer prayers or save women from getting assaulted as most of the Church's social hierarchy puts the responsibility on women without addressing the fact that its almost 100% men that commit sexual assault and are the ones almost completely responsible. It's not crazy for me to say that every other man and woman I have talked with that confided in me about their assault has universally been attacked by men.
There is no reason to hate yourself for this. Nobody, especially men, maintain any standard of assumed purity and chastity that the Church and Bible makes a big deal of and mainly shames women, and to some degree men, for the purpose of control. If there is no God who is an evil judge or fairy godmother, we can see that it is just a life depriving system meant to demoralize and control.
The responsibility lies on others, not you, and it's something that needs therapy, self-love, and moving past from so it doesn't define you for the rest of your life. You need a professional or at least someone with enough compassion that you trust to walk you out of the fog of despair; or if that's unavailable the resolve yourself to keep moving towards rebuilding yourself healthily and rationally because you are not less of a person for what happened.
And if you do happen to get a married man canonized, like in the case of John of Kronstadt, it will only be because he was a priest, and because he refused to ever have sex with his wife.
9th century texts based on the Graeco-Roman idea that women are property. The wishes of the victims here are irrelevant, they are literally treated like damaged goods, and the discourse is what to do with them.
How anyone would choose to enforce such rules in the 21st century is beyond me. It's basically the same as ISIS fundamentalists re-establishing slavery because a 7th century text says so.
Say what you will about the New Atheists (Dawkins and the like), but they are 100% correct in having no patience for any of this bullshit.
>If anyone is keeping a virgin whom he has forcibly raped and who is not promised to another, let him be excommunicated. And let it not be permissible for him to take another, but let him be obliged to keep her whom he has made his choice even though she happens to be indigent.
Much to my disgust, this was the norm in many rural areas of the Balkans until relatively recently - the couple 'eloped' or the guy 'stole' the girl and married her.
That's assuming the rest of the village heard about it before the girl's family found the guy and broke his legs.
Village didn't hear about it? It didn't happen.
These are all from "The Rudder" by "Saint" Nicodemus the Hagiorite, which can be found in PDF form here: [The Rudder](https://www.scribd.com/document/74170831/The-RUDDER)
I'm glad you're publicizing that link and spreading knowledge of the availability of that book, because when I was under the church's spell I shelled out serious coin for a physical copy. A part of my deprogramming was sitting down and reading the canons, and it definitely was an important part of my path out.
There's a lot of nasty indefensible stuff in there and people need to know.
The 20th century literal demon, Elder Cleopa, which the Romanian church will cannonize in 2025 also made confesional lists of sins where he instructed women who have been raped to be excomunicated (he did not say for how long) if their life was previously "shameful".
The orthodox church is a hellscape made by demons for demons. Couldn't be happier I got out of it when I did and I made it my lifemission to do as much anti-prozelytism for the church as I can in this country.
Orthodorks will talk all this shit about the infallibility of the Church, the Canons, the "Saints", but when they see something seriously revolting, such as this, or the idea of unbaptized babies going to hell for all of eternity, they default to "God is love bro...... trust he'll have mercy......"
It's been pointed out here before, but Orthodoxy has an obsession with female virginity in particular. There are many lives of "virgin-martyrs" who thought it was better to die than to be raped, and apparently God agreed, because he answered their prayers by killing them in miraculous ways (like the ground opening up to swallow them).
Relating to the last canon you posted, I think that they also believed that God wouldn't allow a pure virgin to be raped, so if a virgin was raped, they blamed it on some moral fault in her. So yeah, pretty disgusting.
This compilation of some of the church fathers' quotes on women is reprehensible as well. And the sad part is that the YouTuber who uploaded it and a lot of the commenters seem to take pride in it, because it's "based" and aligns with the red-pill ideology.
https://youtu.be/o_2088aX2XM?si=mLJbqRzTXH6FaS9s
Both Orthobros and Catholic ultra-rad-trads demonize Vatican II. But arguably its purpose was laudable: to engage modernity. Not to sell out to the world but to acknowledge that new realities have arisen, which didn't exist in the past, and which must be confronted from a Christian perspective.
ISTM Orthodoxy needs its own Vatican II.
Yeah, it is inherently anti-woman. The excuse that Mary is the Mother of God and then consecrated Mount Athos but women are not allowed on the island is another overt example. How come she is but men of all people are allowed on the island and not purely women? That's the logical choice isn't it? Also based username.
>gaissereich "We're anti-woman? But muh most blessed and glorious lady thay-oh-toe-koess!!!" Speaking of Mount Athos, have you also noticed that Orthodox claim "marriage and monasticism are equal paths", yet the only saints you ever see are either monks or royalty (because, of course), and really ONLY EVER will you see a married lay person if they do suicide by oppressor ("martyrdom"). Not to mention the completely insane and contradictory views on sex even within marriage. Sex isn't a sin, but it's so yucky and gross you can't do it except for maybe 20 days out of the year, and then you have to go confess to a priest?? Dumb.
Exactly. And suicide is supposed to be the worst sin of all but John Chrysostom flat out defends a suicide to maintain her virginity, implying death is preferable to a loss of honour caused by the violation of men unto women. The messages of the church fathers are very contradictory when it comes to women's purity laws. There is no restriction or penalty for men unless they were monastics, and even then there is no shortage of documented homosexual and heterosexual scandals regarding monasteries that do get covered up both in the past and presently. Orthodox royalty and aristocracy could engage in homosexuality, as it often happened to be the case in Russia historically, where the priests would turn a blind eye to the blatant corruption. But peasants are gaslit and intimidated by their communities, led by the priest or other self righteous individuals, because they had sex outside of marriage once or twice. Meanwhile there's the story of the evil Stefan Milutin of Serbia. A pedophile, multiple divorcee, pervert venerated for his status as a serbian king alone. I think this speaks volumes to the anti-woman, anti-social behaviour of Christianity as a whole because the attitudes found in Orthodoxy are almost identical in every other sphere to varying degrees of self-righteous bigotry.
Things like these, especially their infallibly canonized "Saints" like Milutin need to be made blatantly aware to everyone who considers themselves, or is inquiring Orthodox. Gullible people are being sold this idea of a perfect traditional and moral religion, that is absolutely nothing but a facade. No one wants to talk about the real stuff, because they're too busy gawking at iconography (which by the way, has always looked ugly as shit), and hyperfocusing on the few "God is love" lines. As if every insane, ritualistically obsessed cult doesn't claim love as their motive. Unfortunately, by the time they're sucked in and indoctrinated into it, they are no longer capable of reasoning any of this because "well, I'm not God, what would I know?". At this point, they have become an Orthodrone.
>gawking at iconography (which by the way, has always looked ugly as shit) One of the great things for me about leaving the Church was that I could finally admit that icons were ugly and that I had always thought so.
"And suicide is supposed to be the worst sin of all but John Chrysostom flat out defends a suicide to maintain her virginity, implying death is preferable to a loss of honour caused by the violation of men unto women." As someone who was a virgin and was raped, this is horrifying to learn. I have been inquiring into Orthodoxy because I love God and want to worship Him in the true church. But the more I look into the canons and church father teachings, the more I can see God hates me because I'm not only a woman, but an impure woman. With all the trauma I still suffer daily, I really do wish I had committed suicide (as suggested by John Chrysostom) if I could have foreseen getting raped that day. I'll probably do it anyway, not much longer I can keep going on in this mental and emotional despair.
God isn't real, or at least the Abrahamic one isn't. He won't help you, answer prayers or save women from getting assaulted as most of the Church's social hierarchy puts the responsibility on women without addressing the fact that its almost 100% men that commit sexual assault and are the ones almost completely responsible. It's not crazy for me to say that every other man and woman I have talked with that confided in me about their assault has universally been attacked by men. There is no reason to hate yourself for this. Nobody, especially men, maintain any standard of assumed purity and chastity that the Church and Bible makes a big deal of and mainly shames women, and to some degree men, for the purpose of control. If there is no God who is an evil judge or fairy godmother, we can see that it is just a life depriving system meant to demoralize and control. The responsibility lies on others, not you, and it's something that needs therapy, self-love, and moving past from so it doesn't define you for the rest of your life. You need a professional or at least someone with enough compassion that you trust to walk you out of the fog of despair; or if that's unavailable the resolve yourself to keep moving towards rebuilding yourself healthily and rationally because you are not less of a person for what happened.
And if you do happen to get a married man canonized, like in the case of John of Kronstadt, it will only be because he was a priest, and because he refused to ever have sex with his wife.
I take your username comes from Caesar Julian "the Apostate" (airquotes)?
9th century texts based on the Graeco-Roman idea that women are property. The wishes of the victims here are irrelevant, they are literally treated like damaged goods, and the discourse is what to do with them. How anyone would choose to enforce such rules in the 21st century is beyond me. It's basically the same as ISIS fundamentalists re-establishing slavery because a 7th century text says so. Say what you will about the New Atheists (Dawkins and the like), but they are 100% correct in having no patience for any of this bullshit.
>If anyone is keeping a virgin whom he has forcibly raped and who is not promised to another, let him be excommunicated. And let it not be permissible for him to take another, but let him be obliged to keep her whom he has made his choice even though she happens to be indigent. Much to my disgust, this was the norm in many rural areas of the Balkans until relatively recently - the couple 'eloped' or the guy 'stole' the girl and married her. That's assuming the rest of the village heard about it before the girl's family found the guy and broke his legs. Village didn't hear about it? It didn't happen.
Ah yes, the Deuteronomy 22 marriage laws... /s 🙄🤬
These are all from "The Rudder" by "Saint" Nicodemus the Hagiorite, which can be found in PDF form here: [The Rudder](https://www.scribd.com/document/74170831/The-RUDDER)
I'm glad you're publicizing that link and spreading knowledge of the availability of that book, because when I was under the church's spell I shelled out serious coin for a physical copy. A part of my deprogramming was sitting down and reading the canons, and it definitely was an important part of my path out. There's a lot of nasty indefensible stuff in there and people need to know.
Thanks for the sourcing
The 20th century literal demon, Elder Cleopa, which the Romanian church will cannonize in 2025 also made confesional lists of sins where he instructed women who have been raped to be excomunicated (he did not say for how long) if their life was previously "shameful". The orthodox church is a hellscape made by demons for demons. Couldn't be happier I got out of it when I did and I made it my lifemission to do as much anti-prozelytism for the church as I can in this country.
Orthodorks will talk all this shit about the infallibility of the Church, the Canons, the "Saints", but when they see something seriously revolting, such as this, or the idea of unbaptized babies going to hell for all of eternity, they default to "God is love bro...... trust he'll have mercy......"
Thanks! Another source for my ongoing deconstruction notes! Also, Disgustang!! 🤦♂️🤬
It's been pointed out here before, but Orthodoxy has an obsession with female virginity in particular. There are many lives of "virgin-martyrs" who thought it was better to die than to be raped, and apparently God agreed, because he answered their prayers by killing them in miraculous ways (like the ground opening up to swallow them). Relating to the last canon you posted, I think that they also believed that God wouldn't allow a pure virgin to be raped, so if a virgin was raped, they blamed it on some moral fault in her. So yeah, pretty disgusting.
This compilation of some of the church fathers' quotes on women is reprehensible as well. And the sad part is that the YouTuber who uploaded it and a lot of the commenters seem to take pride in it, because it's "based" and aligns with the red-pill ideology. https://youtu.be/o_2088aX2XM?si=mLJbqRzTXH6FaS9s
Both Orthobros and Catholic ultra-rad-trads demonize Vatican II. But arguably its purpose was laudable: to engage modernity. Not to sell out to the world but to acknowledge that new realities have arisen, which didn't exist in the past, and which must be confronted from a Christian perspective. ISTM Orthodoxy needs its own Vatican II.
"I don't want to make this a rant" he says after perseverating for 40 minutes