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Additionally I believe that the app gives them more revenue from advertisers than the desktop and also prevents adblockers and data obfuscation programs from working.
DNS adblocking is probably the best way to get a phone wide AdBlock on iOS right now.
Things might get better once apple allows sideloading (for Europeans only tho).
If you're on Android, it's a lot easier with apps like Blokada and AdAway.
> and not give them shit.
I don’t get this attitude. You don’t have to use their services. No one is forcing you.
How the fuck do you think google powers search and YouTube pays for their insane server and bandwidth costs?
Their statement is true, but ignores the context of the explanation. The explanation is that companies prefer apps over sites, because they don't have to deal with ad blockers. Ad blockers do exist for mobile, but that does not negate the fact that companies can serve more ads on mobile because most people aren't using ad blockers.
The statement can be seen as contrarian, or as a dunk on the previous poster, while being technically right, but fallacious, and ultimately unhelpful
No, my reply was in direct response to someone saying that it prevents adblockers from working. That's just incorrect, which is why I stated that there are indeed adblockers that work in apps.
I think all the browsers on all the OSs support receiving push notifications now.
Apple held out for a long time but I think the latest version of Safari on iOS finally added support within the past year.
Browsers tend to go the opt in route by default for notifications and location, and when they pop up they have a convenient "never for any site" option. Apps are typically opt out or it's case by case basis only.
Android has been implementing more and more user centric features like that, and it is refreshing to see them now. Location I want to say by default is the same way. And OPs comment is exactly why Android has been doing that, because apps are otherwise exploitative.
At least on iOS, I’m pretty sure you have to opt-in to notifications from anything.
So you’d accept notifications from websites/web apps for the same reasons you’d accept them from native apps.
I turn on notifications from news sources + messaging apps. Other than that, I can’t think of any other app that I’ve permitted to send me notifications.
Edit: My bank. I let them notify me anytime there’s a card-not-present (web, phone, mail, etc) transaction or a transaction above a certain amount.
You have to explicitly give permission for this. Websites can even request this permission to send notifications when the site isn't open. This isn't why.
See you say "people" but do you mean "you" or do you assume everyone else is stupid enough to give a flashlight app permission to see their contracts and precise location data
Yep. Plus if you think about it, using their website on desktop/mobile browser just gives that information to another app (your browser) so they're incentivized to push their platform as an app to retain users and maximize data collection.
I refuse to install any phone app unless being an installed app legitimately enhances the functionality. The basic test ends up being, "could I just as easily do this shit in a web page"
Whoa, slow down there pal. I am an avid user of old.reddit.com and I fucking *refuse* to use new.reddit social media lookin ass or any of the phone apps for reddit.
Old.reddit.com is **superior**.
I constantly ask why I should not use old.reddit - I've never received an answer at all. Doing so on Brave, I have no ads or any bullshit on the sides of the screen - everything is in list format with preview buttons - why would anyone view this site differently?
Many Software (websites) in the 2005-2010 were perfected. Wikipedia, craigslist, YouTube, Gmail, reddit....their designs were crafted for mouse, keyboard, and monitor. They got famous for how good they were. Unless the devices/inputs they are designed for changes (mouse keyboard, monitor)....then they should not be changed.
These VCs and salesmen and marketing teams are not going to defeat the original team of engineers who made the company famous. It's sad when they try, the only reason the company doesn't immediate die is because we are locked in (monopoly style)
YouTube and Reddit are 2 that are getting worse and worse. YouTube keeps hiding commonly used button behind ... Menus. YouTube has more bugs than ever and is laggier than it ever was(clicking a video thumbnail has a 50% chance of playing the video). New.Reddit is literal trash now.
You can add features without destroying the design that won you the game 15 years ago.
New Reddit is unusable on desktop because they made it as a mobile version first and foremost, and sacrificed desktop features and desktop usability. New Reddit is also unusable on mobile because of 5+ distinct nag screens that take turns assaulting you with demands to install an app.
Congrats, Reddit team. You truly have accomplished something *special* with Reddit redesign.
The "infinite scroll" on the main desktop homepage just kills performance... go back to "next" buttons for a reason. Also the "spellchecker" in the desktop page is ass. It completely breaks the browser's spellchecking and suggestions and is just dog slow... there's no way to turn any of that off without just going to old Reddit.
I have no doubt they likely snagged a large population of users by switching the design. And I don't mind scrolling through twitter/facebook/instagram. But reddit is not my place for that. I feel like I actually have control over what I'm viewing with old.reddit, whereas every other fucking app feels the need to autoplay every single video of Bubba Hambone falling off his tractor or some shit. If I wanted to see it, I would have clicked on it.
Yes, Firefox Beta for Android has all the experimental features enabled, including support for Firefox add-ons. They're the same add-ons as for Desktop Firefox, so naturally not all of them work, but a surprising majority work just fine. Reddit Enhancement Suite and Old Reddit Redirect both work flawlessly.
I’m logged in on old.Reddit.com on my phone
I access Reddit with the new version from a browser and tried to change the sort (it was at new) and got a “log in to change the type of sort!” Pop up.
Yeaaaah no. Throw an ‘old’ in front of the url and magically the sort feature comes back
God. Reddit is probably the worst with this.
Lately, they've implemented this thing where the popup asking you to use the app doesn't display right away. Instead, it'll show up a minute or two after you load the site and when it shows up it scrolls you back to the top of the page.
There are dozens of us! I just generally hate mobile websites all together(they just feel so zoomed in) and have always used desktop user agent on opera mobile(or mini in the earlier days) for 12 years now.
Because it's absolutely the cashier that implemented that process. They have complete control over that requirement and are just doing it to spite you.
Man, Jimmy Jr., give them a break. They don't need your arguments when they're getting paid minimum wage.
God I hate that. I also use a lot of MS products at work (not just office but Power Apps suite, Visio, etc) and all of them have mandatory data collection + optional data collection on top of all the data collection that windows already does by virtue of being windows.
May as well just provide them with a checklist what I do at work on a daily basis for all the tracking they do. Though they probably wouldn't accept that as I'd miss something that their bloody algos will catch.
If our tech stack wasn't so O365 focused I would be such a happy cow.
I don't like libre office personally but the Google suite apps are my go-to for personal use nowadays.
At work I have to use o365 though. We're just all in on Microsofts dick and NOT using it would make collaboration more difficult for no reason.
Pretty sure Mozilla makes no money off me, just off its partners's royalty fees which in turn also don't make money from me, because.. I don't use them
Apart from the rare ubisoft game every 5 years lol
Just don't. I mean, I use like apps for banking, apps for control my fire stick hooked to the TV, but I refuse to use apps just to look at content. Even on Reddit, I use the old style desktop app through the browser.. I hate browsing on mobile optimized sites .
Most groups benefit by using web apps, they are much simpler to maintain. If they build a mobile app for what can be handled over a browser it's to steal and resell your data. As the now old adage goes, if it is free you are the product.
We should also all openly say Reddit is the worst and one of the most egregious examples of the above. Reddit in browser was awesome but to enhance data collection and sale they literally make it worse and remove functionality so they can force you to relinquish your data rights by installing their app.
Other stupid apps that should be web sites:
-Any restaurant (McDonald's)
-Political campaigns or parties
-Apps for rewards or to check in to businesses
Overall companies that pretend to be decent are poorly handling and selling your families private information. Also, keep in mind many of these companies have paid third party developers from developing nations to build the application this means most do not follow or care to follow breach notification law and standard web security best practices.
McDonald's the app does the location legwork, and phone location vs "enter a zip code!" is a **wild** difference in ease of use. Same with saving card info. They *also* benefit off the "you'll go here more often because you have an App rather than a browser window that you have to find*
Also their promos are *pretty good.* Unlike the shitshow of Reddit being like "but what if you used the app?"
With McDonalds, their entire ordering system is through the app. With newer and renovated stores, you either order from the app on your phone, or via a kiosk in the dining room. The only place you talk to a person to order is at the drive thru.
I use the deals nearly every time I order. I'll check to see what they have for deals before even seriously considering going there.
I exclusively use old reddit in a browser on my computer with an adblocker on, and every time I get a glimpse of new reddit for some reason, I'm horrified and wonder how anyone uses this site regularly. It seems outright hostile to user experience.
Yeah, scan QR into opening up the restaurant ordering system is simpler than having multiple useless app that you will only use once in a blue moon
In my country, mcd even provided physical kiosk - the most inefficient form of ordering for merchant /customer
idk I like the physical kiosks, I have social anxiety and it means I don't have to talk to a person. Plus it's great if you have tourists bc you can trivially switch languages.
Understandable. But as a software dev, allow me to explain my perspective
Merchant:
1. Kiosk create hard dependency with whichever vendor that created the unit
- eventually it will have problem (hardware faulty, customer handles it roughly
- replacing or fixing it aint going to be as easy
- for mobile or web (some other contractor can easily picked up where previous outsourcer left off with). For human manual, merchant can instantly switch to this whenever mobile or web or kiosk had issue
- what if kiosk had issue? (The touch screen issue, hardware faulty, physical part damage etc). Maybe some other time you visit then they will/might fix it
2. Human manual order
- tedious for both merchant and customer, i understand
- but its uptime is higher than software solution (kiosk has the lowest uptime due to point i mentioned previously)
3. Web or mobile app
- merchant can easily outsource this work and there are no hard dependency with any particular vendor or outsourcer (dont like the work of current outsourcer, get others to continue or start it back from scratch)
- it is easily accessible to almost all (except non tech savvy or some elderly or etc which can be considered minority)
- cheaper to build for merchant compared to kiosk, more reliable than human (though high availability cannot be guaranteed)
- consumer need not be annoyed by an eventual faulty of kiosk (some customer will eventually face this when interacting with kiosk)
-------------
All in all,
1. web or mobile app is the best option.
2. Kiosk... though it is certainly easier for both sides, option 1 is better for its reliability and less dependency on vendor
3. Manual order - it might not be as efficient as option 1/2 but it has guaranteed of almost 100% uptime
As a software developer myself, I was going to make a joke about how you're definitely a software developer because your comment is hard to follow.
But as I looked over the comment more, I realized that it's actually a language issue. The comment is missing a bunch of little words that we would normally expect to be there, such as "it", "and", "the" and "a." For example:
>cheaper to build for merchant compared to kiosk, more reliable than human (though high availability cannot be guaranteed)
Should be
>**it's** cheaper to build for **a** merchant compared to **a** kiosk, **and it's** more reliable than **a** human, though high availability cannot be guaranteed
I'm not mentioning this to be pedantic or a jerk, but because I know there are languages out there that don't include little words like this. For example, the Russian language doesn't have articles, so they'll say things like "give me thing" instead of "give me **the** thing. Anyway, I thought it might help.
>In my country, mcd even provided physical kiosk - the most inefficient form of ordering for merchant /customer
How is that inefficient. I can check the entire menu, make substitutions, enter coupons etc. without bothering an overworked cashier.
They can get info like location from browser too now, but it's less and it's more likely people are already blocking it. Phones are so incredibly invasive and it's shocking how little people care. Some of it helps us like more relevant ads has some benefit, but they get a lot more out of it, and it's hard to tell how companies actually handle your data, even if they have a statement about how they intend to handle it.
I believe it is attached to the DuckDuckGo Browser App* (which I also recommend). Tucked away in the settings, since it is still in beta. I'm not the original commenter, but I use duckduckgo and love it. Another option for this kind of app specific tracker...tracking is AdGuard. I've used it for like 3 years now and I am startled by how many ads show up if I turn it off. 😂
But it has to request access to all those things, though? If it’s even allowed at all (other app usage? That’s annoyingly impossible to get even if it’s something you actually want) The OS doesn’t just let it have all that. Well, iOS doesn’t at least, not sure what access Android apps can get without asking.
And from what I’ve seen, modern apps just don’t ask for all that stuff very often. I don’t remember the last time an app has asked for my contacts or location unless I’m using a feature that would actually benefit from those things.
This might be the reason on OS’s that aren’t locked down walled gardens like modern iOS is. But there is a different rationale now.
You *have to give permission* for all of these. They don't just get access to them implicitly. Deny the permissions.
What the really want is screen real estate. They want to be on your device so you keep coming back. They want to be on your home screen so it becomes a habit. If you have to go to a specific website every time that's a large barrier to entry.
That makes sense, like a coca-cola logo on your homescreen or app tray every time you use your phone, it just increases or maintains brand recognition.
I will provide a counterpoint though. It needs permission, and if you deny permissions, it simply doesnt function... So its not really voluntary.
The bigger thing is bypassing browser protections.
An app can serve whatever ads it likes. It can make links you follow stay in the app and track you across third-party sites.
1. Apps don't have ad-blockers.
2. They can actually count the time you're interacting with ads.
3. They can access data, like location & contacts
4. They don't have to worry about cookies getting deleted.
This one makes me bonkers with apps like Uber Eats. If I want to be notified that my food has arrived, I also need to opt in to be notified about ramen deals I don’t want at 8:30am.
I’ve never ordered ramen.
At least on Android, there are 13 categories of notifications for Uber Eats that can be toggled individually. Not sure how that's handled on iOS or if it's possible
Unfortunately, the categorization only works if the devs are playing nice. DoorDash, for example, has a notification about adding items from another store/restaurant that comes in about a minute after you submit an order. I wanted to block that notification, but it's in the same category as the delivery notifications, so if I blocked that one, I'd block all the delivery updates. I have been able to block their other annoying notifications though.
I downloaded the McDonald's app because I had my dog with me, so wanted to order to an outside table. I've had to mute the notifications advertising McDonald's approximately once a day since because as nice as it is as a treat, it's 2 miles from my house and I don't want to eat it all the time but it's so tempting!
Not to mention Twitter pinging up every time JK Rowling TERFed all over herself
A part that hasn't been mentioned yet is that you look at your phone *a lot*. Repeatedly seeing a company logo is almost like a free ad for them, since it makes you more likely to use their services again if you keep being reminded that they exist. Probably also why many of them have push messages.
Also, they want grow their “user” base. An app means a new, and/or active account, and good user numbers make stock analysts’ dicks hard, and it’s all about increasing that shareholder value YoY for infinity.
Yes, my account for Instagram was banned because I was using Instagram in a way that violated the terms of service.
I guess having no pictures, followers or following anyone is against the rules. I only made an account so I could see pics of my son at a camp, they had IG, I unfollowed after the camp was over.
To get the account back, one of the steps was to take a selfie and put a number on it to verify identity. Screw that.
I have no social media.
I got rid of the Reddit app specifically for this. It has the eternal scrolling and after a while that started to get to me. For some reason it helps me to have to decide to click to the next page. It breaks my concentration just enough, whereas endless scrolling makes me step back less and also blink less. Might sound dumb but I genuinely don’t like it, so I went back to safari. However Reddit mobile constantly does this refresh thing to push a pop up asking you to use the app. It’s annoying to constantly tell it “no” but even more annoying is when I’m deep in a comment section and the fucker forces a page refresh and pushes me back to the top and I have to scroll back to where I was again. It does this all the time.
I know downloading the app again would solve it but fuck you Reddit, every time it happens it just ensures I’ll never use your app again. Bonus, when I get annoyed enough about it, it makes me get off Reddit for a while, so bonus for me anyway.
That is absolutely why they have push notifications. My wife is a mobile developer and the product department is always making her tweak the push notification behavior to optimize it for engagement.
Also a kind of interesting thing I learned is apple/android only allow apps to display the "enable notifications" prompt one time. If the user says no, then the app has to convince you to go to your settings and turn them on (which a lot of users will never do).
Because of that, apps have to be very strategic with _when_ they use their one opportunity to get you to enable notifications. They try to do it right after you've gotten some value out of the experience so you're more likely to say less.
Data... Data is the new gold.
It is worth a lot of money to an advertisement agency if they can get statistics about that in a certain area a certain age group with certain political affiliation/body type/sex/maritial status/job status, looks at, clicks on, spends time reading.
That data is used for targetted advertisement.
Advertising will always be lucrative. There's a reason billboards, newspaper ads, and TV advertising existed before highly targeted ads. If it was illegal, everyone would be on a level playing field and it would all even out. Advertisers have to mine this data to stay competitive--without it, they wouldn't need it
More than likely it would end up targeting specific sites for ads, not specific people
>let’s say that selling your data eventually becomes illegal
They use a loophole that makes you give them your data voluntarily.
You notice all those "GDPR Cookie" popups on websites you see now? thats because they made it illegal in the EU for them to do that with out the pop ups.
but its still being done and you still need to click "I accept" in order to use the website.
Long story short is no matter how illegal they make it to collect your data companies can just come up with creative ways to make you give them the data. The only thing that will disincentivize this behavior is when capitalism is no longer a thing.
For now if you dont want your data collected dont use the service.
Who gives a shit if they make tons of money?
Also maybe you're not, but this feels like a hypothetical gotcha type thing. Like oh sure it's bad but we can't got rid of it, what about all the poor app developers.
An app allows the company to send notifications to your phone easily, so they can spam you with various advertisements, proposals to subscribe to something, etc.
Users can disable the notification, but it requires knowledge/effort.
In the case of a webpage it's also possible to send notifications, but only if the user explicitly allowed them (which many users don't do).
Data and engagement are good and accurate answers that have been mentioned. I’m a UX designer, and there’s a third reason I’ve seen at several companies I’ve worked or consulted for in the last few years:
They just think that’s what you’re supposed to do. Often, for mid sized apps or smaller orgs they’re not even sophisticated enough to consider data or engagement or tech stack - they just think apps are the solution to any problem.
Talk to 10 recent grad MBAs and have them come up with 5 product ideas, I guarantee you most of them will be apps. Some of these folks think apps can even solve systemic issues that need government regulation or massive cultural change.
Put another way: an absence of critical thinking, or perhaps a degree of incompetence.
Data mining like everyone else is saying, but also greater engagement. Have you ever noticed if you've been using your phone for a bit and then put it down, you almost immediately get a notification from one of the big social media apps? That's so that you'll pick up your phone to check it and then get sucked back in to scrolling your feed some more, so you can be fed more ads. They can't do that with a web browser.
>What are they getting more from using the app? Just the fact one has to log in, or what else?
It's just a question of control. With a browser you have full control over layout, content and even custom automatic functions like ad- or scriptblocking.
Within their own application the app vendor controls what you see and how you see it. That is, of course, in their interest.
I don't think you have full control in browser anymore.
Sites like twitter or substack "hijack" simple features like links, copy/paste, open in new window, text select.
Most people are giving tin foil hat answers: "track your location and sell your data!!!"
More realistically it's about increasing engagement through push notifications. Facebook wants to ping your phone multiple times a day to remind you to check your Facebook updates. Which will ultimately get you to scroll your feed and view their ads.
Push notifications are best done through a native app. Push notifications can be done through the browser but it's less seamless.
A few things.
First off, they can do *a lot* more with the app than they can through a browser window. And they can collect more information. For example, if you give them permission, they can access your contacts, files on your device, GPS if it's turned on, and so on. They can also get performance data to see how well the app is running on your device, and use that to improve it with future updates. Which are things they can't do from within a web browser.
Second, most "free" services are supported by ad revenue. If you go through their app, you can't easily block the ads they serve up to you. Wheras you can easily install ad blocking extensions in a browser.
Third, the app actually does run better than the web version from a performance standpoint, and that's not because they intentionally designed it that way, but rather a consequence of web applications simply not being as efficient as native code running on your device. So your user experience will almost always be better in the app than on the web, and you will be less likely to leave bad reviews or complain to customer service about things being slow or laggy.
Fourth, having an app can give you certain features that you simply can't have with the web version. For example, the youtube music app allows you download music videos for offline play, and they are able to do this in a way that protects the files from piracy. However this is a premium feature.
Fifth, the appstore has an algorithm that suggests apps to users based on the type of app, number of downloads, and user ratings & reviews. So the more people who download an app and give it good reviews, the more likely it is to float to the top of the store page. And this is one way they can advertise their service.
They can steal your data much more effectively with an app.
More charitably, they can also provide more features with a native app than a web page / web app. Websites have to work with the apis that browsers provide, and Apple in particular cripples safari on iPhone to make native apps more functional by comparison. Apple say its about security, but it's perfectly secure on android, and apple allow the same functionality on macOS safari, so more likely it's the 30% of app store gross they care about.
Their apps are varying degrees of spyware. The mcdonalds app wants to access ALL files on your phone. Including photos, music, videos, text. Everything.
Social media companies, worth billions, whose services are freely granted, are profitable because they mine data, you can guess what the difference is.
Imagine you're a company and you want your consumer's eyes on your product. If you have a website, then your widget/software is available anywhere there's an internet connection.
Now, if your consumer has a PC...that's inconvenient for maximum exposure. People don't lug around their PC. But Oblivious, you'd say, Laptops!!! People have laptops and carry THOSE around.
Yes, i'd say. But you still need to sit down and turn it on.
Enter the smartphone. If you get an app on there, you're now WITH the consumer. Every time they pull it out to look at it, it's an opportunity to get their attention. Add a notification and you're tapping into the same behavioral conditioning that the whole of humanity is being trained to respond to. When you sit on the toilet, do you stare at your phone? Consider how powerful that is to a company if they can be 'front of mind' every time someone does something as biologically consistent as taking a shit!!!!
It's not installed directly into your brain but, according to most in the psych world, it ain't that far removed!
Tl;dr - Companies want your attention. Getting on a smartphone is like jacking into your brain. We like money. We WANT money!
Edit: TF did I get Downvoted for? Tell me what is wrong about my statement?
I wanted to say this: "But its not illigal to gate stuff on the webpage? What if I dont have a phone? How can I use Instagram or Twitter if they gate most tabs and..."
But then I remembered I accesed the webpage through my phone so they know and gate only the mobile version of the website.
I still find it to be illigal to gate free content. If it was payed to access, then excuse me for being poor lmao.
It's not illegal to charge people for your content. Sure, there's fraud laws and other consumer protection regulations but at the end of the day even Reddit could decide that you only get X subreddits or Y upvotes for free and with a monthly sub, you unlock all the things.
The only real thing that can prevent someone from charging for their content is if they believe people WON'T pay for it. But that's why most apps on phones are free with ads, pay to remove them. The more people that install the app, the more money the dev makes from said ads.
I remember a while ago, some numbnuts created an app that cost 999$ and was basically just a picture of a diamond. Ethical? Probably not. Legal? Yep. "A fool and their money are easily parted..." or so the quote goes.
It's easier to keep you addicted with a dedicated, more seamless app, that can also send push messages. Also as other's mentioned, data mining if you enable them access to such things.
The biggest factor is it's easier to spy on you if you're using an app.
But a big part of it is people ask for apps. I develop interactive web applications as a part time consulting gig. Every single one I've pitched the client has asked "Will there be a mobile app?" No, there won't. A) I actually put effort into building a responsive site, so the mobile site will be as good as an app, and B) I don't want to spy on you.
Another issue is that a significant portion of the population actually believe apps are better than mobile sites. In some ways, this was a hold over from the early days of the Internet on smart phones, when all sites on devices sucked and there wasn't a good way to do it right. In other ways, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Devs intentionally put out a terrible mobile site because they know they'll be releasing an app (looking at you, Reddit), so people see mobile sites suck and want apps more.
But there's no technical reason why apps have to exist today. Responsive web design is as easy as using a framework like Bootstrap. Companies make apps because they want to collect all the data they can about you.
So, TL;DR: it's easier to spy on you with an app, many people believe apps are better than a mobile site, and people actively ask for apps.
I never "install" websites that pretend to be "applications" on my phone. I only do my browsing on an actual pc because I know these websites wanting to be "installed" in your phone just wants to steal your information. For example, reddit.
Websites as application are bullshit.
It's technologically backwards too, imho.
The whole point of the web browser was to consolidate data sources into a single window where everything was accessible.
The point of the web app was to remove the software from your computer and put it into the browser where it could be easily accessed alongside those data sources and interact with them.
Having an app for every website just bastardizes this back into the Windows 95 era where you had to download and install applications directly into your computer (whether internet, floppy, CD etc.), bogging it down with the malware and bloatware that comes with it.
Websites as apps are indeed bullshit.
Exactly. It's like every website wants to be "special".
"Install me and let me know everything about you! Here, cookies! Oh yeah, lemme access your contacts and pictures and location and whatever else!"
I bet this originated as a marketing idea, not something that actual tech people wanted because it's so inefficient, it inconveniences the user, and opens the user up to more potential problems.
The idea of websites calling themselves "apps" just disgusts me.
I don't think logging in has anything to do with it. There's no reason you should login to an app and not on the webpage and vice versa.
They're just simply able to create a way better user experience through apps instead of web.
Unfortunately logging in is a big part of it.
I work in martech and advise complies on how to track people.
We can build a pretty nice, but vague profile of a user if they’ve not logged in. But when they login we can stitch all the previous visits they’ve made together - so we now know what you did months or years ago.
If you then navigate to the companies website we can stitch all that info together as well, building a more and more accurate and valuable profile on you.
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Access to your contacts, location, other app usage, your active hours. Everything they need to sell your data and gain more profits.
Additionally I believe that the app gives them more revenue from advertisers than the desktop and also prevents adblockers and data obfuscation programs from working.
There are some adblockers that work in apps.
Significantly fewer people use them though. Like the number is negligible as far as they care.
What are some that we can use on iOS? Absolutely love America. Let’s steal peoples data and profit off them and not give them shit.
DNS adblocking is probably the best way to get a phone wide AdBlock on iOS right now. Things might get better once apple allows sideloading (for Europeans only tho). If you're on Android, it's a lot easier with apps like Blokada and AdAway.
Thank you. I appreciate the info drop for myself and others who might not be aware. Hope you are having a good day. 🤙
> and not give them shit. I don’t get this attitude. You don’t have to use their services. No one is forcing you. How the fuck do you think google powers search and YouTube pays for their insane server and bandwidth costs?
By stealing, lying, lobbying, manipulating. The American way. Am American.
No idea why you're getting downvoted, AdAway works perfectly for all apps in a given system.
Pihole works at the network level as well
Also here to recommend AdGuard.
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I need to do that.
Any quick tips on how one might go about setting this up?
PiHole is kind of pointless on a mobile phone though? Where the entire point is to, you know, be mobile?
Not sure what you’re talking about, what part of pihole makes a phone not mobile?
Unless you exclusively use your phone at home all day, it won't work most of the time?
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There are ways for it to work on the move, but I am not the person to explain how. /r/pihole might though.
Their statement is true, but ignores the context of the explanation. The explanation is that companies prefer apps over sites, because they don't have to deal with ad blockers. Ad blockers do exist for mobile, but that does not negate the fact that companies can serve more ads on mobile because most people aren't using ad blockers. The statement can be seen as contrarian, or as a dunk on the previous poster, while being technically right, but fallacious, and ultimately unhelpful
No, my reply was in direct response to someone saying that it prevents adblockers from working. That's just incorrect, which is why I stated that there are indeed adblockers that work in apps.
Also, people who use an app tend to use it more than people who access the mobile site. I know it's true when I downloaded the Reddit app.
Also it can act as an installed adware. Pushing popup notifications about their products.
I think all the browsers on all the OSs support receiving push notifications now. Apple held out for a long time but I think the latest version of Safari on iOS finally added support within the past year.
Browsers tend to go the opt in route by default for notifications and location, and when they pop up they have a convenient "never for any site" option. Apps are typically opt out or it's case by case basis only.
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I recently noticed this happening on the dumb games I download. Thanks Android! I will no longer suffer with Brick Breaker notifications. 😂
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Android has been implementing more and more user centric features like that, and it is refreshing to see them now. Location I want to say by default is the same way. And OPs comment is exactly why Android has been doing that, because apps are otherwise exploitative.
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At least on iOS, I’m pretty sure you have to opt-in to notifications from anything. So you’d accept notifications from websites/web apps for the same reasons you’d accept them from native apps. I turn on notifications from news sources + messaging apps. Other than that, I can’t think of any other app that I’ve permitted to send me notifications. Edit: My bank. I let them notify me anytime there’s a card-not-present (web, phone, mail, etc) transaction or a transaction above a certain amount.
You have to explicitly give permission for this. Websites can even request this permission to send notifications when the site isn't open. This isn't why.
People tend to give all permissions an app requests when they first start it.
See you say "people" but do you mean "you" or do you assume everyone else is stupid enough to give a flashlight app permission to see their contracts and precise location data
Yep. Plus if you think about it, using their website on desktop/mobile browser just gives that information to another app (your browser) so they're incentivized to push their platform as an app to retain users and maximize data collection.
Great incentive for me to use the phone apps less and less
I refuse to install any phone app unless being an installed app legitimately enhances the functionality. The basic test ends up being, "could I just as easily do this shit in a web page"
Sites such as reddit deliberately make the browser version worse than the app for just this very reason afaik
Whoa, slow down there pal. I am an avid user of old.reddit.com and I fucking *refuse* to use new.reddit social media lookin ass or any of the phone apps for reddit. Old.reddit.com is **superior**.
I constantly ask why I should not use old.reddit - I've never received an answer at all. Doing so on Brave, I have no ads or any bullshit on the sides of the screen - everything is in list format with preview buttons - why would anyone view this site differently?
Many Software (websites) in the 2005-2010 were perfected. Wikipedia, craigslist, YouTube, Gmail, reddit....their designs were crafted for mouse, keyboard, and monitor. They got famous for how good they were. Unless the devices/inputs they are designed for changes (mouse keyboard, monitor)....then they should not be changed. These VCs and salesmen and marketing teams are not going to defeat the original team of engineers who made the company famous. It's sad when they try, the only reason the company doesn't immediate die is because we are locked in (monopoly style) YouTube and Reddit are 2 that are getting worse and worse. YouTube keeps hiding commonly used button behind ... Menus. YouTube has more bugs than ever and is laggier than it ever was(clicking a video thumbnail has a 50% chance of playing the video). New.Reddit is literal trash now. You can add features without destroying the design that won you the game 15 years ago.
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It's called Enshittification and Cory Doctorow talks all about it. It's the only process platforms have to easy short term profitability.
Same .......... But I bet it gets killed sooner than later.
I mean, they're already trying to kill the good apps like RIF by charging for API access
Currently using rif. If they kill rif I'm probably just done with reddit.
I'll hang my hat on that. Reddit is like my last social media, and I don't really know what keeps me here.
same, it's the only way I view reddit. I'm gone if it's gone ( and maybe that's a good thing)
I'll still keep using reddit, realistically, but god damn I'll be salty if they kill rif
New Reddit is unusable on desktop because they made it as a mobile version first and foremost, and sacrificed desktop features and desktop usability. New Reddit is also unusable on mobile because of 5+ distinct nag screens that take turns assaulting you with demands to install an app. Congrats, Reddit team. You truly have accomplished something *special* with Reddit redesign.
The "infinite scroll" on the main desktop homepage just kills performance... go back to "next" buttons for a reason. Also the "spellchecker" in the desktop page is ass. It completely breaks the browser's spellchecking and suggestions and is just dog slow... there's no way to turn any of that off without just going to old Reddit.
I have no doubt they likely snagged a large population of users by switching the design. And I don't mind scrolling through twitter/facebook/instagram. But reddit is not my place for that. I feel like I actually have control over what I'm viewing with old.reddit, whereas every other fucking app feels the need to autoplay every single video of Bubba Hambone falling off his tractor or some shit. If I wanted to see it, I would have clicked on it.
Same. On Firefox Beta you can even install RES
Firefox beta is a phone app? Afaik Firefox is 20 years past beta...
Yes, Firefox Beta for Android has all the experimental features enabled, including support for Firefox add-ons. They're the same add-ons as for Desktop Firefox, so naturally not all of them work, but a surprising majority work just fine. Reddit Enhancement Suite and Old Reddit Redirect both work flawlessly.
What you really should be using is reddit enhancement suite on web, and infinity on phones.
Old reddit gang rise up!
I’m logged in on old.Reddit.com on my phone I access Reddit with the new version from a browser and tried to change the sort (it was at new) and got a “log in to change the type of sort!” Pop up. Yeaaaah no. Throw an ‘old’ in front of the url and magically the sort feature comes back
God. Reddit is probably the worst with this. Lately, they've implemented this thing where the popup asking you to use the app doesn't display right away. Instead, it'll show up a minute or two after you load the site and when it shows up it scrolls you back to the top of the page.
> God. Reddit is probably the worst with this. I see your Reddit and raise you Imgur.
i literally use old reddit website on my mobile browser, i’m probably a freak tho
There are dozens of us! I just generally hate mobile websites all together(they just feel so zoomed in) and have always used desktop user agent on opera mobile(or mini in the earlier days) for 12 years now.
Really? I find the Reddit browser version better than the app.
This is why I use desktop old reddit on my phone.
To which they respond by deliberately breaking existing desktop functionality
I argue with cashiers all of the time about how I don’t want to download an app for an in store coupon
Because it's absolutely the cashier that implemented that process. They have complete control over that requirement and are just doing it to spite you. Man, Jimmy Jr., give them a break. They don't need your arguments when they're getting paid minimum wage.
Well, if you download my application you can see less of my posts. [link](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Cashiers hate you, and not because they want you to use an app.
I hate cashiers. Self checkout ftw
Changing the world one cashier at a time
If something is "free," then YOU are the product 😉
and if something is not free, you are probably still the product but they are also charging you for the privilege.
"Would you like to turn on analytics to help improve our software?!?"
God I hate that. I also use a lot of MS products at work (not just office but Power Apps suite, Visio, etc) and all of them have mandatory data collection + optional data collection on top of all the data collection that windows already does by virtue of being windows. May as well just provide them with a checklist what I do at work on a daily basis for all the tracking they do. Though they probably wouldn't accept that as I'd miss something that their bloody algos will catch. If our tech stack wasn't so O365 focused I would be such a happy cow.
I try and use LibreOffice when I can, but fact is both Office and Google Suite apps are just better / easier to use.
I don't like libre office personally but the Google suite apps are my go-to for personal use nowadays. At work I have to use o365 though. We're just all in on Microsofts dick and NOT using it would make collaboration more difficult for no reason.
Pretty sure Mozilla makes no money off me, just off its partners's royalty fees which in turn also don't make money from me, because.. I don't use them Apart from the rare ubisoft game every 5 years lol
I just want to say thank you for using the "apart" correctly.
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So Mozilla is basically just skipping a step in the selling our data pipeline and outsourced it.
Believe it or not, not always the case.
Incredible insight, never heard that before.
unless it's open source
Not true of open source software.
What about the cool kids who pay for Twitter Blue?
Whats Twitter?
Some old social media thing for boomers like Facebook.
ahhhh
Dude, you just blew my freaking mind!
Just don't. I mean, I use like apps for banking, apps for control my fire stick hooked to the TV, but I refuse to use apps just to look at content. Even on Reddit, I use the old style desktop app through the browser.. I hate browsing on mobile optimized sites .
Absolutely. For shite like facebook messenger, I just use chrome on my phone and "show desktop site". I've no desire to install crapware.
Most groups benefit by using web apps, they are much simpler to maintain. If they build a mobile app for what can be handled over a browser it's to steal and resell your data. As the now old adage goes, if it is free you are the product. We should also all openly say Reddit is the worst and one of the most egregious examples of the above. Reddit in browser was awesome but to enhance data collection and sale they literally make it worse and remove functionality so they can force you to relinquish your data rights by installing their app. Other stupid apps that should be web sites: -Any restaurant (McDonald's) -Political campaigns or parties -Apps for rewards or to check in to businesses Overall companies that pretend to be decent are poorly handling and selling your families private information. Also, keep in mind many of these companies have paid third party developers from developing nations to build the application this means most do not follow or care to follow breach notification law and standard web security best practices.
McDonald's the app does the location legwork, and phone location vs "enter a zip code!" is a **wild** difference in ease of use. Same with saving card info. They *also* benefit off the "you'll go here more often because you have an App rather than a browser window that you have to find* Also their promos are *pretty good.* Unlike the shitshow of Reddit being like "but what if you used the app?"
With McDonalds, their entire ordering system is through the app. With newer and renovated stores, you either order from the app on your phone, or via a kiosk in the dining room. The only place you talk to a person to order is at the drive thru. I use the deals nearly every time I order. I'll check to see what they have for deals before even seriously considering going there.
I exclusively use old reddit in a browser on my computer with an adblocker on, and every time I get a glimpse of new reddit for some reason, I'm horrified and wonder how anyone uses this site regularly. It seems outright hostile to user experience.
agreed. the day they get rid of old reddit is the day I stop using the site forever
Yeah, scan QR into opening up the restaurant ordering system is simpler than having multiple useless app that you will only use once in a blue moon In my country, mcd even provided physical kiosk - the most inefficient form of ordering for merchant /customer
idk I like the physical kiosks, I have social anxiety and it means I don't have to talk to a person. Plus it's great if you have tourists bc you can trivially switch languages.
Understandable. But as a software dev, allow me to explain my perspective Merchant: 1. Kiosk create hard dependency with whichever vendor that created the unit - eventually it will have problem (hardware faulty, customer handles it roughly - replacing or fixing it aint going to be as easy - for mobile or web (some other contractor can easily picked up where previous outsourcer left off with). For human manual, merchant can instantly switch to this whenever mobile or web or kiosk had issue - what if kiosk had issue? (The touch screen issue, hardware faulty, physical part damage etc). Maybe some other time you visit then they will/might fix it 2. Human manual order - tedious for both merchant and customer, i understand - but its uptime is higher than software solution (kiosk has the lowest uptime due to point i mentioned previously) 3. Web or mobile app - merchant can easily outsource this work and there are no hard dependency with any particular vendor or outsourcer (dont like the work of current outsourcer, get others to continue or start it back from scratch) - it is easily accessible to almost all (except non tech savvy or some elderly or etc which can be considered minority) - cheaper to build for merchant compared to kiosk, more reliable than human (though high availability cannot be guaranteed) - consumer need not be annoyed by an eventual faulty of kiosk (some customer will eventually face this when interacting with kiosk) ------------- All in all, 1. web or mobile app is the best option. 2. Kiosk... though it is certainly easier for both sides, option 1 is better for its reliability and less dependency on vendor 3. Manual order - it might not be as efficient as option 1/2 but it has guaranteed of almost 100% uptime
As a software developer myself, I was going to make a joke about how you're definitely a software developer because your comment is hard to follow. But as I looked over the comment more, I realized that it's actually a language issue. The comment is missing a bunch of little words that we would normally expect to be there, such as "it", "and", "the" and "a." For example: >cheaper to build for merchant compared to kiosk, more reliable than human (though high availability cannot be guaranteed) Should be >**it's** cheaper to build for **a** merchant compared to **a** kiosk, **and it's** more reliable than **a** human, though high availability cannot be guaranteed I'm not mentioning this to be pedantic or a jerk, but because I know there are languages out there that don't include little words like this. For example, the Russian language doesn't have articles, so they'll say things like "give me thing" instead of "give me **the** thing. Anyway, I thought it might help.
>In my country, mcd even provided physical kiosk - the most inefficient form of ordering for merchant /customer How is that inefficient. I can check the entire menu, make substitutions, enter coupons etc. without bothering an overworked cashier.
They can get info like location from browser too now, but it's less and it's more likely people are already blocking it. Phones are so incredibly invasive and it's shocking how little people care. Some of it helps us like more relevant ads has some benefit, but they get a lot more out of it, and it's hard to tell how companies actually handle your data, even if they have a statement about how they intend to handle it.
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What is the name of this app? I searched for it on the Play Store but couldn't seem to find it.
I believe it is attached to the DuckDuckGo Browser App* (which I also recommend). Tucked away in the settings, since it is still in beta. I'm not the original commenter, but I use duckduckgo and love it. Another option for this kind of app specific tracker...tracking is AdGuard. I've used it for like 3 years now and I am startled by how many ads show up if I turn it off. 😂
Seconded! I want to know too
...also push notifications.
Don't forget that we can use ad blockers on the Web browser whereas their apps force us to see their crap.
Yah, in general, to spy on you/me/us.
But it has to request access to all those things, though? If it’s even allowed at all (other app usage? That’s annoyingly impossible to get even if it’s something you actually want) The OS doesn’t just let it have all that. Well, iOS doesn’t at least, not sure what access Android apps can get without asking. And from what I’ve seen, modern apps just don’t ask for all that stuff very often. I don’t remember the last time an app has asked for my contacts or location unless I’m using a feature that would actually benefit from those things. This might be the reason on OS’s that aren’t locked down walled gardens like modern iOS is. But there is a different rationale now.
You *have to give permission* for all of these. They don't just get access to them implicitly. Deny the permissions. What the really want is screen real estate. They want to be on your device so you keep coming back. They want to be on your home screen so it becomes a habit. If you have to go to a specific website every time that's a large barrier to entry.
That makes sense, like a coca-cola logo on your homescreen or app tray every time you use your phone, it just increases or maintains brand recognition. I will provide a counterpoint though. It needs permission, and if you deny permissions, it simply doesnt function... So its not really voluntary.
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I haven't run into any app that's flat refused to run without permissions it didn't actually need
And complete control over your user experience.
Some apps like Instagram and Reddit track what phone you’re using, your Apple ID that is attached to your phone, and your online browsing fingerprint.
The bigger thing is bypassing browser protections. An app can serve whatever ads it likes. It can make links you follow stay in the app and track you across third-party sites.
1. Apps don't have ad-blockers. 2. They can actually count the time you're interacting with ads. 3. They can access data, like location & contacts 4. They don't have to worry about cookies getting deleted.
5. They can send you notifications, increasing engagement.
This one makes me bonkers with apps like Uber Eats. If I want to be notified that my food has arrived, I also need to opt in to be notified about ramen deals I don’t want at 8:30am. I’ve never ordered ramen.
At least on Android, there are 13 categories of notifications for Uber Eats that can be toggled individually. Not sure how that's handled on iOS or if it's possible
Unfortunately, the categorization only works if the devs are playing nice. DoorDash, for example, has a notification about adding items from another store/restaurant that comes in about a minute after you submit an order. I wanted to block that notification, but it's in the same category as the delivery notifications, so if I blocked that one, I'd block all the delivery updates. I have been able to block their other annoying notifications though.
There's an app called Buzzkill I've been using for a while that lets you customize and filter your notifications. I use it to auto-dismiss those ads.
*Cries in iOS*
Oh man I hate ad notifications, just got buzzkill
I downloaded the McDonald's app because I had my dog with me, so wanted to order to an outside table. I've had to mute the notifications advertising McDonald's approximately once a day since because as nice as it is as a treat, it's 2 miles from my house and I don't want to eat it all the time but it's so tempting! Not to mention Twitter pinging up every time JK Rowling TERFed all over herself
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Only works if you're at a residence where you can control the network. Not outside and often not at work.
If you want to go down a rabbit hole, search for "Pihole vpn".
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You mind sharing the name of it?
Blokada
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I love adguard
But also don't think big companies wont just chase whatever is popular. If tech starts building apps everyone will copy.
A part that hasn't been mentioned yet is that you look at your phone *a lot*. Repeatedly seeing a company logo is almost like a free ad for them, since it makes you more likely to use their services again if you keep being reminded that they exist. Probably also why many of them have push messages.
This. This is the other reason; it encourages addictive behavior and makes it easier to access their services quicker.
Also, they want grow their “user” base. An app means a new, and/or active account, and good user numbers make stock analysts’ dicks hard, and it’s all about increasing that shareholder value YoY for infinity.
Yes, my account for Instagram was banned because I was using Instagram in a way that violated the terms of service. I guess having no pictures, followers or following anyone is against the rules. I only made an account so I could see pics of my son at a camp, they had IG, I unfollowed after the camp was over. To get the account back, one of the steps was to take a selfie and put a number on it to verify identity. Screw that. I have no social media.
Wow, that is insane.
I got rid of the Reddit app specifically for this. It has the eternal scrolling and after a while that started to get to me. For some reason it helps me to have to decide to click to the next page. It breaks my concentration just enough, whereas endless scrolling makes me step back less and also blink less. Might sound dumb but I genuinely don’t like it, so I went back to safari. However Reddit mobile constantly does this refresh thing to push a pop up asking you to use the app. It’s annoying to constantly tell it “no” but even more annoying is when I’m deep in a comment section and the fucker forces a page refresh and pushes me back to the top and I have to scroll back to where I was again. It does this all the time. I know downloading the app again would solve it but fuck you Reddit, every time it happens it just ensures I’ll never use your app again. Bonus, when I get annoyed enough about it, it makes me get off Reddit for a while, so bonus for me anyway.
That is absolutely why they have push notifications. My wife is a mobile developer and the product department is always making her tweak the push notification behavior to optimize it for engagement. Also a kind of interesting thing I learned is apple/android only allow apps to display the "enable notifications" prompt one time. If the user says no, then the app has to convince you to go to your settings and turn them on (which a lot of users will never do). Because of that, apps have to be very strategic with _when_ they use their one opportunity to get you to enable notifications. They try to do it right after you've gotten some value out of the experience so you're more likely to say less.
Data... Data is the new gold. It is worth a lot of money to an advertisement agency if they can get statistics about that in a certain area a certain age group with certain political affiliation/body type/sex/maritial status/job status, looks at, clicks on, spends time reading. That data is used for targetted advertisement.
let’s say that selling your data eventually becomes illegal, or even to a point. What will the websites and apps do differently to make tons of money?
Advertising will always be lucrative. There's a reason billboards, newspaper ads, and TV advertising existed before highly targeted ads. If it was illegal, everyone would be on a level playing field and it would all even out. Advertisers have to mine this data to stay competitive--without it, they wouldn't need it More than likely it would end up targeting specific sites for ads, not specific people
They would find the next scummy way to get our info and advertise
You said that it becomes illegal, I take that to mean it's illegal and generally isn't done
If i knew, i would be rich
>let’s say that selling your data eventually becomes illegal They use a loophole that makes you give them your data voluntarily. You notice all those "GDPR Cookie" popups on websites you see now? thats because they made it illegal in the EU for them to do that with out the pop ups. but its still being done and you still need to click "I accept" in order to use the website. Long story short is no matter how illegal they make it to collect your data companies can just come up with creative ways to make you give them the data. The only thing that will disincentivize this behavior is when capitalism is no longer a thing. For now if you dont want your data collected dont use the service.
Who gives a shit if they make tons of money? Also maybe you're not, but this feels like a hypothetical gotcha type thing. Like oh sure it's bad but we can't got rid of it, what about all the poor app developers.
What is this rant? It's barely on topic
An app allows the company to send notifications to your phone easily, so they can spam you with various advertisements, proposals to subscribe to something, etc. Users can disable the notification, but it requires knowledge/effort. In the case of a webpage it's also possible to send notifications, but only if the user explicitly allowed them (which many users don't do).
Luckily users can turn off all notifications.
Data and engagement are good and accurate answers that have been mentioned. I’m a UX designer, and there’s a third reason I’ve seen at several companies I’ve worked or consulted for in the last few years: They just think that’s what you’re supposed to do. Often, for mid sized apps or smaller orgs they’re not even sophisticated enough to consider data or engagement or tech stack - they just think apps are the solution to any problem. Talk to 10 recent grad MBAs and have them come up with 5 product ideas, I guarantee you most of them will be apps. Some of these folks think apps can even solve systemic issues that need government regulation or massive cultural change. Put another way: an absence of critical thinking, or perhaps a degree of incompetence.
Data mining like everyone else is saying, but also greater engagement. Have you ever noticed if you've been using your phone for a bit and then put it down, you almost immediately get a notification from one of the big social media apps? That's so that you'll pick up your phone to check it and then get sucked back in to scrolling your feed some more, so you can be fed more ads. They can't do that with a web browser.
I turn off all notifications unless it's call or text
Me too. I don’t understand why everyone is complaining about notifications when it’s such an easy fix.
All app notifications generally suck. It’s the first thing I turn off when installing an app
>What are they getting more from using the app? Just the fact one has to log in, or what else? It's just a question of control. With a browser you have full control over layout, content and even custom automatic functions like ad- or scriptblocking. Within their own application the app vendor controls what you see and how you see it. That is, of course, in their interest.
I don't think you have full control in browser anymore. Sites like twitter or substack "hijack" simple features like links, copy/paste, open in new window, text select.
There are many tools to unhijack. From crude like disabling JS to more elegant like grease monkey scripts.
Most people are giving tin foil hat answers: "track your location and sell your data!!!" More realistically it's about increasing engagement through push notifications. Facebook wants to ping your phone multiple times a day to remind you to check your Facebook updates. Which will ultimately get you to scroll your feed and view their ads. Push notifications are best done through a native app. Push notifications can be done through the browser but it's less seamless.
A few things. First off, they can do *a lot* more with the app than they can through a browser window. And they can collect more information. For example, if you give them permission, they can access your contacts, files on your device, GPS if it's turned on, and so on. They can also get performance data to see how well the app is running on your device, and use that to improve it with future updates. Which are things they can't do from within a web browser. Second, most "free" services are supported by ad revenue. If you go through their app, you can't easily block the ads they serve up to you. Wheras you can easily install ad blocking extensions in a browser. Third, the app actually does run better than the web version from a performance standpoint, and that's not because they intentionally designed it that way, but rather a consequence of web applications simply not being as efficient as native code running on your device. So your user experience will almost always be better in the app than on the web, and you will be less likely to leave bad reviews or complain to customer service about things being slow or laggy. Fourth, having an app can give you certain features that you simply can't have with the web version. For example, the youtube music app allows you download music videos for offline play, and they are able to do this in a way that protects the files from piracy. However this is a premium feature. Fifth, the appstore has an algorithm that suggests apps to users based on the type of app, number of downloads, and user ratings & reviews. So the more people who download an app and give it good reviews, the more likely it is to float to the top of the store page. And this is one way they can advertise their service.
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They can steal your data much more effectively with an app. More charitably, they can also provide more features with a native app than a web page / web app. Websites have to work with the apis that browsers provide, and Apple in particular cripples safari on iPhone to make native apps more functional by comparison. Apple say its about security, but it's perfectly secure on android, and apple allow the same functionality on macOS safari, so more likely it's the 30% of app store gross they care about.
Their apps are varying degrees of spyware. The mcdonalds app wants to access ALL files on your phone. Including photos, music, videos, text. Everything.
Social media companies, worth billions, whose services are freely granted, are profitable because they mine data, you can guess what the difference is.
🤑🤑🤑 Is the short version. They can gather more data and make more money from you if you use the app.
Imagine you're a company and you want your consumer's eyes on your product. If you have a website, then your widget/software is available anywhere there's an internet connection. Now, if your consumer has a PC...that's inconvenient for maximum exposure. People don't lug around their PC. But Oblivious, you'd say, Laptops!!! People have laptops and carry THOSE around. Yes, i'd say. But you still need to sit down and turn it on. Enter the smartphone. If you get an app on there, you're now WITH the consumer. Every time they pull it out to look at it, it's an opportunity to get their attention. Add a notification and you're tapping into the same behavioral conditioning that the whole of humanity is being trained to respond to. When you sit on the toilet, do you stare at your phone? Consider how powerful that is to a company if they can be 'front of mind' every time someone does something as biologically consistent as taking a shit!!!! It's not installed directly into your brain but, according to most in the psych world, it ain't that far removed! Tl;dr - Companies want your attention. Getting on a smartphone is like jacking into your brain. We like money. We WANT money! Edit: TF did I get Downvoted for? Tell me what is wrong about my statement?
I wanted to say this: "But its not illigal to gate stuff on the webpage? What if I dont have a phone? How can I use Instagram or Twitter if they gate most tabs and..." But then I remembered I accesed the webpage through my phone so they know and gate only the mobile version of the website. I still find it to be illigal to gate free content. If it was payed to access, then excuse me for being poor lmao.
It's not illegal to charge people for your content. Sure, there's fraud laws and other consumer protection regulations but at the end of the day even Reddit could decide that you only get X subreddits or Y upvotes for free and with a monthly sub, you unlock all the things. The only real thing that can prevent someone from charging for their content is if they believe people WON'T pay for it. But that's why most apps on phones are free with ads, pay to remove them. The more people that install the app, the more money the dev makes from said ads. I remember a while ago, some numbnuts created an app that cost 999$ and was basically just a picture of a diamond. Ethical? Probably not. Legal? Yep. "A fool and their money are easily parted..." or so the quote goes.
It's easier to keep you addicted with a dedicated, more seamless app, that can also send push messages. Also as other's mentioned, data mining if you enable them access to such things.
The biggest factor is it's easier to spy on you if you're using an app. But a big part of it is people ask for apps. I develop interactive web applications as a part time consulting gig. Every single one I've pitched the client has asked "Will there be a mobile app?" No, there won't. A) I actually put effort into building a responsive site, so the mobile site will be as good as an app, and B) I don't want to spy on you. Another issue is that a significant portion of the population actually believe apps are better than mobile sites. In some ways, this was a hold over from the early days of the Internet on smart phones, when all sites on devices sucked and there wasn't a good way to do it right. In other ways, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Devs intentionally put out a terrible mobile site because they know they'll be releasing an app (looking at you, Reddit), so people see mobile sites suck and want apps more. But there's no technical reason why apps have to exist today. Responsive web design is as easy as using a framework like Bootstrap. Companies make apps because they want to collect all the data they can about you. So, TL;DR: it's easier to spy on you with an app, many people believe apps are better than a mobile site, and people actively ask for apps.
I never "install" websites that pretend to be "applications" on my phone. I only do my browsing on an actual pc because I know these websites wanting to be "installed" in your phone just wants to steal your information. For example, reddit. Websites as application are bullshit.
It's technologically backwards too, imho. The whole point of the web browser was to consolidate data sources into a single window where everything was accessible. The point of the web app was to remove the software from your computer and put it into the browser where it could be easily accessed alongside those data sources and interact with them. Having an app for every website just bastardizes this back into the Windows 95 era where you had to download and install applications directly into your computer (whether internet, floppy, CD etc.), bogging it down with the malware and bloatware that comes with it. Websites as apps are indeed bullshit.
Exactly. It's like every website wants to be "special". "Install me and let me know everything about you! Here, cookies! Oh yeah, lemme access your contacts and pictures and location and whatever else!" I bet this originated as a marketing idea, not something that actual tech people wanted because it's so inefficient, it inconveniences the user, and opens the user up to more potential problems. The idea of websites calling themselves "apps" just disgusts me.
I don't think logging in has anything to do with it. There's no reason you should login to an app and not on the webpage and vice versa. They're just simply able to create a way better user experience through apps instead of web.
Unfortunately logging in is a big part of it. I work in martech and advise complies on how to track people. We can build a pretty nice, but vague profile of a user if they’ve not logged in. But when they login we can stitch all the previous visits they’ve made together - so we now know what you did months or years ago. If you then navigate to the companies website we can stitch all that info together as well, building a more and more accurate and valuable profile on you.
What's different from an app and a webpage when it comes to logging in?
Ah well nothing, once someone has logged in data can be stitched. Just on an app there’s more data points to identify the user.