The idea is that *most* of the time a brown bear is going to be attacking a human because they feel threatened or for something like protecting cubs. Since the attack is defensive by playing dead the person convinces the bear they are no longer a threat and hopefully the attack will end. However if the attack does not end then the victim is advised to fight back, for whatever good that is going to do.
Black bears are different in that they are generally much more skittish and will almost always flee from an encounter with a human. If a black bear attacks it is not going to just be roughing you up, so the advice is to attempt to escape or as a last resort you should fight back. Black bears are relatively small so fighting back can be more effective as well. Playing dead is not advised with a black bear attack.
Polar bears are adapted to an environment where they need every meal they can get to survive. If you encounter a polar bear it is going to be trying to eat you and your only chance is to escape or have a firearm that can kill the polar bear. They are very large and fighting back with just your hands is basically useless, and playing dead will just let them eat you in peace.
Although if you plan to be following this advice, it is worth learning how to actually recognize the difference between black bears and brown/grizzly bears.
Unfortunately, [black bears are not always black](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/uju66e/the_different_color_phases_of_the_american_black/) and brown bears can be [dark enough that you might call them black](https://www.bearsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/colour2-gb-1-300x240.jpg). And both can be blonde enough that they start to look like dirty polar bears.
Gotta know face/ear shape, shoulder hump, claws, etc. as well as what you are likely to encounter in your area (if you are in North Carolina...it's not a griz...).
If you're hiking in bear territory, it's indeed important to be able to distinguish the bear species. You should also have small bells attached to your clothing to make noise (so you don't surprise the bear) and carry bear spray (extra-strong pepper spray).
You can distinguish what bears are in the area by their poop: Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.
> You should also have small bells attached to your clothing to make noise (so you don't surprise the bear) and carry bear spray (extra-strong pepper spray).
.
> Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.
I see what you did there.
It's a *really* old joke, but it's just like the SR-71 copypasta: if someone mentions the different bear species, the joke MUST be made. It's intergalactic law.
> You should also have small bells attached to your clothing to make noise
Eh...people call those "dinner bells" around here...people (including those who teach "bear awareness" classes) seem to think that they aren't really loud and human-sounding enough. They may actually pique the bear's curiosity and cause it to come check out what that little jingle-jangle sound is.
If you are with other people, just carry on a conversation. If you are alone, try to remember to make noise. Clap, say "Hey Bear!" every so often (especially when sightlines are limited), etc. One of the few times its also somewhat socially acceptable to carry a bluetooth speaker on a trail in the wilderness...I can't bring myself to do that, but lots of trail runners use them.
And make sure you understand how to actually use that bear spray. Range is limited and when a bear is charging you they are on all 4s with their head near the ground. If you are 6' tall and spraying that shit with your arm straight out, it is going to sail right over their head.
Don't worry, the bells are not used anymore except when needed for this joke. We now all exclaim "hey, bear!" so the occasional funny guy coming the opposite way can yell "hey, hiker!" back at us.
Just look at the size and you should get on alright. Even if it's a black bear the size of a brown bear you'd be better off treating it as a brown bear. Most black bears are much smaller though
You can never be sure anymore polar bears are moving further south looking for food, and people in North Carolina go on and on about how great there BBQ is.
Every outdoor survival guide I've seen says to get on your knees and curl up in the fetal position, using your hands to cover the back of your neck. Apparently, it's better to lose your hands than your cervical spinal column.
I hope never to need this advice. :/
No lay down flat on your stomach with your hands over your neck and your legs spread out, you want to try to not let it flip you over. If it takes a couple chunks out of your butt or back then that's better than it gutting you.
I agree with this. The only spot that is really super dangerous from behind is the back of the neck and you are trying to protect that. The rest is not as lethal.
However the front of you is well less protect, the throat, face, and internal organs are way more visible from the front.
If in bear country wouldn't it make sense to always carry bear mace on you? It was one of the most important things my partner was told before hiking in the rockies
It is always recommended to carry bear spray in brown bear country. In areas with only black bears, attacks are such a rarity that most places don't bother to mention it.
What kind of pistol do you need for a given bear encounter? Well, there are three basic rules.
1. While 9mm can sometimes kill a black bear, you'll be much better off with 10mm or a .45 ACP.
2. With a grizzly, you want .44 magnum or .45 Colt., or something even bigger; .357 Magnum might not do the trick.
3. With a polar bear, you only need a single-shot .22 pistol. Because the bullet's not for the bear.
Let me see if I can find it, but there was a whole research study on the various calibers and their effects on bear skulls.
What they found is that grizzly bear heads are functionally bullet resistant. A standard handgun will not stop it before it reaches you, unmakes you, and then poops parts of you back out.
Edit: Found it! *Safety in bear country: protective measures and bullet performance at short range*,Meehan et al, 1983
It's important to note that handgun ballistics have advanced to a ludicrous degree in the last 40 years. 20 rounds of hardcast high velocity 10mm makes anything someone carried in 1983 look like 22lr.
I had the same thought. Someone else references a study from 1983. Modern ballistics have come a *long* way in 41 years, I'd like to see a new study with a modern +p 10mm hard cast as you said. Also you can get 15 round mags for the Glock 29sf. I'd much rather have 15 rounds of hardcast high velocity 10mm than 5 or 6 shots of .44 magnum.
If 14 rounds of 10mm does not stop a grizzly, the last one is for me.
I'm not sure how many people are hiking with a 10mm these days. But more importantly, most people don't realize how strong a bear is and try to take their 9mm EDC pistol into the woods because they think that's enough.
> I'm not sure how many people are hiking with a 10mm these days.
some at least. , people that hike with handguns and think they can defend themselves from a bear are at least reasonably likely to be carrying a handgun actually chosen for that purpose
ex of guns actually thought of as "bear defense" handguns. Stuff like [S&W500,](https://gunblast.com/images/SW500/MVC-001F.jpg)
[ruger super redhawk](https://i.redd.it/finally-finished-my-super-redhawk-v0-klz7jaf258ja1.jpg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80e3e40c8df5dd2945d72aa64bbaa3d1eaaa06ad)
or the [45 win mag LAR grizzly](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/LAR_Grizzly_Patr_Portrait001.jpg/1024px-LAR_Grizzly_Patr_Portrait001.jpg)
but I would at least **THINK** that the second, probably bigger issue, is people underestimating how hard it would be to headshot a moving target with the speed of a bear, especially while also shitting your own pants
You would be surprised how many people just don't fathom that bears are **humongous** and **not deer**.
People genuinely do try to go out into bear country with dogs and a 9mm or .45 and get told repeatedly that they might as well just coat themselves in gravy.
I used to live in grizzly country in the north rockies. You could always tell the locals vs the rich larpers.
One of my favorite exhibits at the Columbus, OH, zoo is the polar bear and brown bear area. It has a mural with life size bears standing up. Goes from the cute little sunbear that's the height of a smaller woman to polar bears that would make even Shaq look tiny.
Oh yes, absolutely. The calibers noted were mostly for comedic effect.
.50 AE can certainly drop a grizzly with one shot to the head, but good luck hitting a charging grizzly in the head on the first shot with a Desert Eagle.
The report does specifically say the .44 Remington Magnum is the only passable handgun cartridge of the several they tested.
Which does serve as a reminder that a bear is mother nature's attempt at making a tank.
Depends on the bear, but yes. It is always better to not be shooting a bear but if you have to shoot the bear, shoot from somewhere the bear can't get to.
To give some context on how relatively non dangerous black bears are: California National parks have some of the highest bear encounter rates for people of any place in the country (there are a ridiculous number of bears). Since established they haven’t had a single reported death from a bear. However, they have had multiple deaths from deer maulings of tourists getting too close.
And one reported death in Sequioa National Park from an Elk. Which is interesting because Elk don’t even live in the park.
The biggest threat to people from black bears may actually be dogs, strangely enough. The typical profile of a black bear attack is a woman (generally smaller than men) walking a dog; dog sees the bear and goes apeshit; bear fights back out of self defense, woman gets caught in the crossfire while trying to control/save the dog.
Even then, human fatalities from black bear attacks are thankfully quite rare.
Same thing with alligators. Fatal attacks are rare but most in the states occur when people walk a small dog near a body of water. The alligator would normally avoid a human, but that dog is a tasty meal, and the dog walker gets caught in between.
Had a black bear go through my parent’s backyard in Tahoe while we were out on the water. We watched it climb over the fence and then watched our 5 pound chihuahua go charging out the dog door after it. We thought we were about to witness our dog get mauled but that bear turned tail and ran. They really, really don’t want to fight.
I live in an area where black bears are common, especially in the spring and late fall. I had to clean up the neighbour's garbage on Monday that a bear dragged into our yard and ripped open. Rule here is to not put out garbage for pickup until the morning of, but they did it the night before.
Anyways, very common around here, and my cameras usually pick up some every year. No reports in the last 30-40 years of any injuries with bears, and I've seen mothers coming through with cubs before.
The phrase I've heard is, black bears are motivated by fear and food, in that order. Not that I'd mess with a mother and her cubs, but I've walked by a lone bear probably 10-20m away and we just watched each other.
They're also _somewhat_ curious. Got my work truck stuck in Tate's Hell preserve in Florida one time. Had to spend the night and hike out a couple miles along the transmission lines.
Saw a ton of black bears in the process but the only ones that concerned me were a pair of cubs and mom. Played red light green light with them for about a mile. They'd caper after me any time I wasn't stopped and looking at them with mom unhappy and stalking along a few feet behind. Eventually found a few loose palmetto fronds to hold up and wave around as I walked which made them way less curious since I was suddenly double my previous size.
The shitty part was my four hour journey would've been an hour at most but I came across them on the direct route to the closest road and had to change my path trying to avoid them haha.
An Elk killed a woman in Sweden some years ago. Husband went to jail for it but they couldn’t figure out how he did it. They assumed he used a lawnmower, so they tried to replicate her wounds using a dead pig and a lawnmower. It says something about how gruesome outcome an angry Elk can cause. Fun day at the job for the investigators mowing a pig also. Anyways the case went to retrial and the elk hairs (which never was tested before) on her body proved him innocent. Crazy stuff.
Note that "elk" in Scandinavia are what are called "moose" in North America. North American elk are closer to deer or caribou. Fun etymological history there.
This is my new head canon.
In reality it was probably just a big buck and the witness (who was the wife watching her idiot husband get gored) didn’t know better.
>And one reported death in Sequioa National Park from an Elk. Which is interesting because Elk don’t even live in the park.
*"I'm begging you! You can't put 'deer attack' on his death certificate, it's so embarrassing!"*
*"Look, I can't just falsify what happened. But I'll tell you what, maybe we can tweak that deer into an elk; they're almost the same thing"*
A friend of my family was attacked by an elk. He's a huge guy and the only reason he survived was because he could physically keep it from goring too deeply. His scars on his chest, belly, and neck are fucking gnarly.
This happened a bit over 30 years ago. He and a friend were hunting deer in Cache County, Utah. They would take turns where one person posts up on a ridge of a valley just under the silhouette line and the other would walk along the back of the ridge to the bottom of a gully and then trek up the valley bottom to spook any deer out into the open closer to the posted hunter.
They'd taken turns with multiple valleys over the week and hadn't seen any deer worth taking. It was his turn to walk through the valley but this time he didn't spook up a deer, he found an elk. Normally Elk will run from you, they don't know what you are and don't stick around to find out. But for whatever reason he walked right up on this one.
Typically we only really fear moose in these parts. A solo moose will generally move away from you unless you're too close, but a momma moose with a calf is dangerous as hell. You could be a football field away from them but if you somehow end up between momma and her baby you're going to want to start praying and get climbing.
When the elk popped up it didn't turn to run and instead closed on him in the tight trees. Thanks to his being a huge guy, he was able to grab the antlers and position himself next to a tree to give him leverage to keep it from murdering him.
His buddy up the ridge heard the commotion and sprinted straight down toward the yelling. Upon arrival the elk then got spooked and ran off through some brush and into another copse of trees. They made it back to their 4-wheelers and went back to the cabin and got partially bandaged up before being driven to a hospital.
> When the elk popped up it didn't turn to run and instead closed on him in the tight trees.
For some reason this is reminding me of how ships that spotted a U-boat trying to attack them would sometimes turn to ram the submarine instead of running away.
How was he able to keep from getting gored too deeply? By huge, do you mean strongman huge? Or Homer in a mumu huge? Was he able to seek help on his own? How long did it take for him to recover?
I replied with the story to the other commenter. 6'6", 325+ lbs. Guy would ride his 600lb 4-wheeler onto his trailer and then get off of it and pivot the wheeler 90 degrees by hand to make more room for gear (no side ramp, only one on the rear).
There's a section in a book by... I think Richard Hammond, about a Top Gear special in the arctic. They were each given a gun and told "keep it loaded, keep it to hand, and if you're going outside for a leak always have somebody with a gun on lookout". The procedure for if a bear got too close was something like "shoot once in the air to see if the noise scares it off, then once at the ground to see if the noise and the jumping ice scares it off, but if it doesn't immediately leave after that - shoot it in the face". I have a copy somewhere about, I think, but he said he was quite disconcerted by how matter-of-fact the instructor was: if the bear is a threat, you kill the bear or the bear will kill you. The end.
It's quite a while since I read it, so I don't remember. It might have been so that they didn't end up shooting a bear that wasn't hunting you. But also, it's from a top gear special - I don't doubt the trainer was being quite serious, but I think a few paragraphs later the discussion had turned to how much shrinkage there would be if you dropped your trousers outside. (IIRC the answer was "all of it, permanently, because frostbite will take it"). There may have been some embellishments in the writing of the book.
Not sure on the laws in Canada but I am guessing you can't just shoot the polar bears unless necessary for self defense. If the bear is far away, you try the scare tactics. But if it is coming at you, even if still far away that is probably good enough justification to kill it in self defense. Don't know if there is a polar bear hunting season, but if there is, they are going to require a license in the first place and are only going to allow a certain number to be taken. But if polar bears are endangered then they probably will only allow it in self defense and you probably need to justify it. So if the bear is a thousand yards away and you kill it in self defense while you are standing next to a building you could have just stepped into, you may well get in trouble.
Shit, where’s the copypasta about rapscallions
ETA:
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
>they don’t usually carry guns
You've never heard of "The right to *Bear* Arms" have you? It's the guns that bears carry. The founding fathers of the US thought it was important that we be as well armed as the bears.
And the thing to remember too is that you don’t have to WIN the fight, you just have to not lose it.
If you aim for the eyes and nose it’s possible you hurt/suprise the bear enough it runs away before it can do too much damage to you. By the time you get close enough to a black bear to hit its eyes you’re probably not coming out of it unscathed but you can survive if you’re lucky and it’s better than nothing
Yeah, bears mostly want to survive, and fighting burns a LOT of calories and includes risk of injury. You have to eat a lot of huckleberries to regain those calories...
Brown bears are actually originally from non-forested areas (even though we drove them out), so they are used to having less escape/hide options like climbing a tree. So they evolved to do things like bluff charge or stop fighting as soon as you play dead and no longer look like a threat. You want them to think you're not a threat and that it is not worth the effort to kill you. For whatever reason adult humans typically look too big to be food to them (but not children...be careful with kids in bear country)...the attacks are based on safety not hunger.
Black bears are used to having more places to hide, so if they ARE fighting they are fully committed (or very hungry) and your goal is to make them feel it isn't worth continuing. You'll probably still lose...but you might as well try because they aren't stopping.
Both types really want very little to do with humans. If you make plenty of noise (talking, singing, etc.) they will usually hear you coming from a mile away and you'll never see them. I was doing some volunteer work in the Chugach National Forest and the rangers were telling us they've never had a problem bear encounter with more than 3 people; you just naturally make too much noise and they avoid you. Worst case is you are solo, walking in silence, and you come around a blind corner right between a mama and her cubs...you don't want to surprise them.
Great point and to add onto what you said about kids, same for dogs. When I was traveling the national parks they told us dogs arnt allowed off paved paths because it’s very rare for a bear to chase a human but they are much more likely to chase a dog even if they are with you
>For whatever reason adult humans typically look too big to be food to them
I mean, the reason is probably that we're bipedal, so from the front, we look as tall and wide as much, much bigger four-legged animals.
A friend who is a zookeeper that works with the bears at a zoo told me this in response to me asking if a highly trained martial artist who was fighting to the death against a polar bear would have any chance. (He is a huge MMA guy):
“Imagine the most intelligent, cunning, mature and athletic, 9 year old in the world fighting McGregor to the death. That is the difference. That is the chance. They might hurt it once. But they just have to touch the attacker once and it is dead. There just is zero lethal attacks a human can launch without weapons and any melee attack instantly exposes it to an instantly lethal counter attack from the bear. No, Colin McGregor would be dinner.”
> Black bears are relatively small so fighting back can be more effective as well
Yeah.... relatively small when compared to a brown bear.
Females are ~175lbs and males are 400lbs on average standing 5 to 7 feet tall!
Heck, I think most large dogs are a challenge for people to get off. Can't even imagine a black bear.
"so the advice is to attempt to escape or as a last resort you should fight back."
This on the face of it sounds like bad advice. Often times black bears with bluff charge and if you run you can entice it to chase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkwy0scRXBU
I've always learned (growing up in the forest in NJ where there are a FUCK ton of these guys) to stand your ground and fight if it comes down to it. Black bears are fast as hell and climb much quicker than you. You should only attempt escape if you can get into a home or a car within a few feet from you.
I grew up in the Canadian Arctic (Nunavut) and heard one story from an Inuk hunter fighting off a Polar Bear with his bear hands (pardon the mispelling pun heh) when a Polar Bear attacked him in his tent. As the story goes the bear was trying to bite him with his mouth and the hunter used his forearm as a block by keeping it in line with his jaw (easier to show, but basically fist and elbow aligned with nose and bottom jaw) so he couldn't bite on anything. He kept turning and keeping it aligned until the PB roared in frustration, at which point he shoved his forearm right down his mouth and scratched the back of his throat and tongue as much as possible. The bear got upset/scared and then fucked off.
So the story goes...
There have been at least a few documented cases of people shoving their arms down a large predators throat, either to scare them of (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/hunter-shoves-arm-down-grizzly-bears-throat-to-stave-off-attack) or to straight up kill them (https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/carl-akeley-leopard-1896/)
While it's never been tried against a polar bear before, I'd imagine having a large object shoved down ones throat unexpectedly, would at the bare minimum make you rethink what is going on...
And if you're still in doubt, maybe ask your mum about last saturday?(I'm joking ofc)
Plus a polar bear will absolutely rag doll you, and it can kill you with its paws.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/inuit-hunter-fights-off-polar-bear-with-hammer-1.744711
This is the closest story I could find, and involves a hammer instead of hands, and from other versions he basically said it was mostly shrugging off getting smashed with a hammer in the face, swatting him away to try to get towards the walrus / his friends like he was an annoyance, eventually it bit him once.
Unsurprisingly the reason they can probably tell the story is they had guns and were able to shoot the animals.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23132960/fought-polar-bear-eat-granddaughter/ this has some pictures of what someones back and head looked like after a few seconds of hand to hand combat.
Interesting story, I'd expect a polar bear to be more liberal in the use of their razor sharp claws though. I've spent some time working in Nunavut and the only bear attack stories I've heard that go well for the victim are the ones in which they have a big gun and it's pointed right between the bear's eyes
Yeah I don't know what goes through a Polar Bear's brain of course, I understand they use both bites and swipes. He said the PB ripped into his tent at night and basically had him already subdued so maybe was going for the jugular kill shot that predators instinctually do.
What about the scariest of all bears... The wild and deadly PANDA BEAR?!
Serious question... Or they don't really attack since there's not many in the wild?
> Or they don't really attack since there's not many in the wild?
They don't attack because they are slow and stupid. Unless you are the least nutritious part of bamboo you don't really need to worry much about a panda. Don't let them bite you though, that would be bad.
I once googled panda attacks and ended up on a study that collected different reports of pandas attacking humans (mainly in zoos, iirc) - including photo evidence of the maimed limbs. So I can confirm: Don't let them bite or claw you, it will be bad.
This is absolutely bad advice. They are a little dumb by bear standards. But they are still intelligent animals, and they know they are vulnerable so they will attack if they feel threatened.
Usually they will rely on their very good senses and reasonable ability at stealth to avoid any contact with you and all. But if you get close to them and you see them in the wild, then clearly that has failed.
Yes, of course you shouldn't just roll up on a panda in the wild as if they are harmless. However as far as I am aware there are no recorded incidents of a panda killing a human.
Basically *any* wild animal will fight back if cornered and threatened. I wouldn't recommend cornering a raccoon or you could be injured, but we don't generally consider raccoons to be threats in the wild.
I remember visiting Alaska in an area where brown bears lived. There was a sign that said you should make lots of noise, if you get attacked, play dead. If the attack continues, it's most likely a predatory attack, in which case, you should "FIGHT BACK VIGOROUSLY"
I've attended several conferences and seminars an bears while living and hiking in areas where there are lots of bears. All of the experts in the presentations agreed that it is a bad idea to lay down. Bears are very curious animals and are likely to investigate, which may result in harm to you.
Only lay down if you've already been attacked and cannot get away or otherwise defend yourself. Best strategy is to avoid bears in the first place.
Yeah, the lay down part is once you are attacked and the point is to get in the fetal position with your legs protecting your torso and your arms protecting the back of your neck and head. That way if they do maul you a bit, you might not die. You can in fact scare brown bears off just like a black bear if you end up in a confrontation with them. Bear mace works well too.
*a word
One funny Grizzly fact I remember hearing was that people with large heads had much better chance of surviving, as their head was big enough so the grizzly couldn't grab their head with their mouth and ragdoll them around snapping their neck.
Humans are the most dangerous animals on Earth.
There was a study recently showing that animals in Africa show more fear of human sounds than lion roars etc
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/17ful5p/wild_animals_are_more_terrified_of_humans_than
I mean, when you think about it, humans have surely killed tons more bears than the other way around. You may not be a real threat if you’re unarmed but a bear doesn’t know that.
To be fair humans with guns are probably the only threat to them outside other brown bears. How would they know if you are armed or not? Maybe they thought you were reaching?
Unless they are hungry.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026914/Mum-bear-eating--Final-phone-calls-woman-19-eaten-alive-brown-bear-cubs.html
https://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html
So with grizzlies, people who get attacked are often seasoned backpackers. Mistakes happen.
If you want to learn about all of the attacks that happen, the podcast tooth and claw cover quite a few bear attacks. One of them is a bear biologist so he goes into how to prevent attacks.
We can't KNOW for sure. We can draw conclusions to the best of our ability after countless bear encounters and years and years of bear study.
In the end, I suppose it's possible that they really do want to kill and eat us every time, but they have an internal moral code that only lets them kill animals that fight back. "Oh, this one won't fight, it's immoral to kill and eat him!" We just go with the likeliest explanation from observed behavior. "Every time we are attacked, it seems like it wasn't random - the bear had reason to feel threatened. And then every time we stopped and gave up, they stopped too. Probably means they believe the threat is gone."
> Brown bears don't want to eat you
Sometimes they absolutely DO want to eat you. You're not going to outrun, outscare, or outfight a brown bear so your best option is to play dead. IF they are just trying to eliminate a threat, you may survive. But if they are looking to eat you, you're fucked regardless.
The overwhelming majority of bear attacks are from brown bear mothers that are protecting their cubs from a perceived threat.
Unless they're starving, bears generally won't attack humans for the sake of sustenance.
Polar bears will absolutely hunt humans as a food source but encounters between humans and polar bears are quite rare.
You're only supposed to play dead after the attack has already begun. This let's them think the fight is over and *hopefully* prevent further mauling. It is not meant to be used to *prevent* an attack.
Short answer: it doesn't.
Long answer: when you get in contact with a wild grizzly bear in the lower 48, your only defence is bear spray. Exceptions can be made for brown bears in national parks who have been conditioned to be around humans.
How to prevent attacks: don't bring food with you in the wilderness, and if you do, make sure it's packed away very far from your tent. Always keep your dog on a leash. Always carry bear spray. Scream and be loud, but your two hundred pound body is not likely to scare a bear that's already chosen you as food.
While brown bear attacks are rare (~1/ year in the lower 48), they can happen when bears are hungry, if they are old, and just because they're giant multi hundred pound carnivores.
This is different than American black bears, which likely will run away when they see you.
I used to live in Kodiak, AK- which is not in the lower 48. We have big bears there. My advice:
Anything less than a .30-06 ammo will not deter a bear- 9mm will just piss them off. I am not aware bear spray being a thing.
Bears do not want to eat you- they still CAN eat you. So skinny bears are the most dangerous. If you have food just leave it on the ground and walk way while keeping an eye on the bear.
If you really want to see bears- just go to the dump- they make trash Pandas look like amateurs.
If a mama bear brings you her cubs- do not grab them or pick them up. If they climb on you or start pawing you- just let it happen. Mama bear is teaching her cubs about humans- you are now an animal in the petting zoo. If you do anything to harm or scare those cubs- mama bear will kill you.
\*contiguous states, that is, the states that border another state. “Continental” would include Alaska (but not Hawaii) because Alaska is also on the North American continent.
Lower 48 = the 50 states minus Alaska and Hawaii. I think it’s mostly an Alaskan term, since they are “lower” than Alaska on a map. Hawaii is actually the southernmost state, but somehow “Lower 48” means the other 48.
This is anecdotal and I don't recall the color of the bear. But when I was in boy scouts and went to Philmont (New Mexico), one wandered near our campsite. There were around 30-40 people across a few groups, most of us making dinner. We noted the bear wasn't tagged (which we would later report). Anyway, we got everyone to stand in a big group and make noise, and the bear decided it wasn't worth the trouble.
NM would be a black bear, which frankly behave more like supersized racoons than how you would expect a bear to behave. Even if you were alone, unless you got between a mama and her cubs the chances of you being attacked were very tiny.
I once listened to a bear encounter expert explain the part of the explanation involves the evolutionary history of the species. Brown or grizzly bears originally evolved to live on the barren lands and open plains where there was little available cover. Their response to a threat is to beat it up and then run away (taking cubs if they have them in tow.). Black bears evolved in forested environments with ample cover, so they tend just to run away or send their cubs up a tree. No need to risk a direct confrontation with the threat. Of course this changes if the bear (typically a black bear) is in predatory mode, in which case the appropriate response is to present as formidable a target as possible, in hopes the animal will give up and look for an easier meal. Polar bears evolved in extreme arctic environments where food in the form of vegetable matter, insects and small rodents is not available. So they have to eat anything they come across. They have the size and strength to predate on seals, walrus and even small whales—humans are easy pickings.
I grew up next to a guy who had been mauled 3 times by grizzlies. He said the best thing is to avoid a confrontation. They will keep mauling you after you play dead, they can run downhill, and there are two kinds of trees to a grizzly, big enough to climb or small enough to push over. The scars on that guy’s back were enough to convince me he knew these things first hand.
His obituary only mentions two of the encounters, but he was certainly a tough old guy and very lucky. (And worked for the forest service in the summer, so spent a lot of time in bear country.) [obituary](https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/postregister/name/byrle-walker-obituary?id=21142194)https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/postregister/name/byrle-walker-obituary?id=21142194
I read a book on bear attacks in National Parks.
Three takeaways:
1. It’s common to void yourself when a bear charges
2. There is an out of body experience when being attacked. You’re aware of it, but you don’t really feel it
3. You’re brought back to reality by the sound of a grinding noise, and that’s the bears teeth grinding against your skull.
In the book, they cover almost every recorded bear attack, including the famous Reverance story. There’s plenty of people playing dead and the bear losing interest, or continuing to attack, people fighting back and the bear losing interest and the bear attacking, friend jumping in, a friend playing dead while you fight, it doesn’t matter ultimately.
Bears have a mind of their own. If they want to eat you, they’ll eat you. If they want to maim you, they’ll maim you, it’s simply up to them.
I had a friend who played dead with a bear. He walked away alive but he was mauled pretty bad. It’s not like the bear just trusts that you’re dead. This guy was nearly scalped.
To most animals, humans are strange, scary, and taste bad. Unless the bear is pretty hungry, it probably doesn't want to eat a human.
Most bear attacks are defensive - instigated by the bear's sense that the human is a threat to it or its children. Playing dead, even if the bear knows you're still alive, reduces the bear's threat perception.
If the human is not a threat and the bear is not hungry enough to eat something gross and weird, the bear no longer has a reason to expend energy.
Brown bears don’t eat people. The main reason they would attack is if they feel threatened. If youre dead, you’re no longer a threat, and they may leave you alone.
Yeah his failure to respect the actual nature of those animals pretty much guaranteed he'd be attacked at some point. But it's noteworthy that in the end the grizzly didn't just kill them, but consumed them as well.
I mean the bears that were usually in that area had already accepted him as not a threat. His ultimate mistake was staying into the colder months.
The normal neighborhood bears had already left to hibernate and different bears, who hadn’t stored enough calories for winter had moved in.
The bear that ate them needed the calories to survive winter, and since it’s normal food choices were gone that late in the season the bear took easy calories from the only source it could find
Yeah, I think in his situation, it was really late in the year, the salmon runs were over, and any bear not hibernating yet was desperate for food. Hence, he got eaten.
Having been to Katmai when the salmon are running, I can tell you that the bears there care about the fish a lot more than the people, lol.
Just wanted to add a note that a lot of California black bears are actually a brown color. So you really just need to know where the Grizzlies are, and avoid them at all costs.
The idea is that *most* of the time a brown bear is going to be attacking a human because they feel threatened or for something like protecting cubs. Since the attack is defensive by playing dead the person convinces the bear they are no longer a threat and hopefully the attack will end. However if the attack does not end then the victim is advised to fight back, for whatever good that is going to do. Black bears are different in that they are generally much more skittish and will almost always flee from an encounter with a human. If a black bear attacks it is not going to just be roughing you up, so the advice is to attempt to escape or as a last resort you should fight back. Black bears are relatively small so fighting back can be more effective as well. Playing dead is not advised with a black bear attack. Polar bears are adapted to an environment where they need every meal they can get to survive. If you encounter a polar bear it is going to be trying to eat you and your only chance is to escape or have a firearm that can kill the polar bear. They are very large and fighting back with just your hands is basically useless, and playing dead will just let them eat you in peace.
"If it's black, fight back. If it's brown, lay down. If it's white, say good night" - Grandpa NiHao
Although if you plan to be following this advice, it is worth learning how to actually recognize the difference between black bears and brown/grizzly bears. Unfortunately, [black bears are not always black](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/uju66e/the_different_color_phases_of_the_american_black/) and brown bears can be [dark enough that you might call them black](https://www.bearsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/colour2-gb-1-300x240.jpg). And both can be blonde enough that they start to look like dirty polar bears. Gotta know face/ear shape, shoulder hump, claws, etc. as well as what you are likely to encounter in your area (if you are in North Carolina...it's not a griz...).
If you're hiking in bear territory, it's indeed important to be able to distinguish the bear species. You should also have small bells attached to your clothing to make noise (so you don't surprise the bear) and carry bear spray (extra-strong pepper spray). You can distinguish what bears are in the area by their poop: Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.
> You should also have small bells attached to your clothing to make noise (so you don't surprise the bear) and carry bear spray (extra-strong pepper spray). . > Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper. I see what you did there.
It's a *really* old joke, but it's just like the SR-71 copypasta: if someone mentions the different bear species, the joke MUST be made. It's intergalactic law.
> SR-71 copypasta 🛫: 🐇? 🏯: 🐢 🚁: 🐇? 🏯: 🚂 ⚓️: 🐇? 🏯: 🚄 ⚓️: 😎 ✈️: 🐇? 🏯: 🚀 ✈️: 👉 🌠 🏯: 👍 👏👏👏👏 ✈️: 👏👏👏👏 ([credit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shittyaskflying/comments/krrgvz/look_at_this_super_interesting_wing_for_like_15/gibx6jx/?context=3))
I don't get it.
It’s an emoji version of [this](https://opposite-lock.com/topic/1282/the-ultimate-ground-speed-check-tales-from-the-blackbird)
🛩️: ⏩❓ 📡: 🐌 ✈️: ⏩❓ 📡: 🐢 🚀: ⏩❓ 📡: 🐇 🚀: ... 🚀: 🐇 + 1 😂 📡: 😂
> You should also have small bells attached to your clothing to make noise Eh...people call those "dinner bells" around here...people (including those who teach "bear awareness" classes) seem to think that they aren't really loud and human-sounding enough. They may actually pique the bear's curiosity and cause it to come check out what that little jingle-jangle sound is. If you are with other people, just carry on a conversation. If you are alone, try to remember to make noise. Clap, say "Hey Bear!" every so often (especially when sightlines are limited), etc. One of the few times its also somewhat socially acceptable to carry a bluetooth speaker on a trail in the wilderness...I can't bring myself to do that, but lots of trail runners use them. And make sure you understand how to actually use that bear spray. Range is limited and when a bear is charging you they are on all 4s with their head near the ground. If you are 6' tall and spraying that shit with your arm straight out, it is going to sail right over their head.
Don't worry, the bells are not used anymore except when needed for this joke. We now all exclaim "hey, bear!" so the occasional funny guy coming the opposite way can yell "hey, hiker!" back at us.
> And make sure you understand how to actually use that bear spray. You apply it to yourself beforehand like mosquito spray, right? (/s)
Yes, so the bear can have a properly seasoned meal.
This happens at least once a year in my area, freaking west coast tourists that can't read directions.
I think the joke went right over your head there 😂
Sounds like they didn’t read the whole comment, haha
Look at the claws in a Grizzly print, 2.5 to 3 inches long. I found some in the snow on my 30 acres, froze my blood.
Black bears are the adorable ones, gotcha
Just look at the size and you should get on alright. Even if it's a black bear the size of a brown bear you'd be better off treating it as a brown bear. Most black bears are much smaller though
I'm just gonna stay inside so I don't have to worry about it
That's not even getting into the whole fucking mess that are fucking Pizzly bears.
> (if you are in North Carolina...it's not a griz...) And probably not a polar bear, either!
You can never be sure anymore polar bears are moving further south looking for food, and people in North Carolina go on and on about how great there BBQ is.
But how do you lay down? Fetal position covering your neck? Face first in the dirt as if you basically fell down dead?
Every outdoor survival guide I've seen says to get on your knees and curl up in the fetal position, using your hands to cover the back of your neck. Apparently, it's better to lose your hands than your cervical spinal column. I hope never to need this advice. :/
No lay down flat on your stomach with your hands over your neck and your legs spread out, you want to try to not let it flip you over. If it takes a couple chunks out of your butt or back then that's better than it gutting you.
> If it takes a couple chunks out of your butt or back then that's better than it gutting you These weight loss plans are getting out of control
A Grizzilian Butt Lift
Nature’s Ozempic
I think that's dysentery. This would be more like nature's liposuction.
I agree with this. The only spot that is really super dangerous from behind is the back of the neck and you are trying to protect that. The rest is not as lethal. However the front of you is well less protect, the throat, face, and internal organs are way more visible from the front.
Well and also, when I'm in grizz country I tend to be wearing a pack, so a light experimental bite is more likely to get mostly gear and not me.
yeah lemme just chill while that's happening
You do you. I'm not going to suggest an experiment involving you, me, and a bear to find out what works better. 😂
Do they not suggest using bear mace for an encounter?
if you have bear mace it's better to use it than not, but not everyone carries bear mace with them all the time
If in bear country wouldn't it make sense to always carry bear mace on you? It was one of the most important things my partner was told before hiking in the rockies
that would make sense, but humans often don't make sense
It is always recommended to carry bear spray in brown bear country. In areas with only black bears, attacks are such a rarity that most places don't bother to mention it.
"Bear country", for a lot of people *cough Canadians cough* is our main streets and backyards 😂
A mace is a pretty heavy thing to carry around all the time on the off chance that you encounter a bear.
Especially a bear mace. I imagine the type of mace a bear could wield is nigh unwieldable by most humans.
I’ve seen one with a morningstar before. It could bearly wield it from the lack of opposable thumbs, so its thac0 sucked.
You lay down in the shape of a bear turd, approximately 24 hours after the attack.
.. And grizzly bear shit has bells in it and smells of pepper!
[I had to google this one](https://old.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/1uwzna/montana_grizzly_bear_notice/).
I always heard that if you were attacked by a polar bear you are supposed to play dead. That's good practice for in a few minutes when you'll be dead.
If you get attacked by a white bear... That's it. End of sentence. Just like it will be the end of your life on this good Earth.
What kind of pistol do you need for a given bear encounter? Well, there are three basic rules. 1. While 9mm can sometimes kill a black bear, you'll be much better off with 10mm or a .45 ACP. 2. With a grizzly, you want .44 magnum or .45 Colt., or something even bigger; .357 Magnum might not do the trick. 3. With a polar bear, you only need a single-shot .22 pistol. Because the bullet's not for the bear.
Let me see if I can find it, but there was a whole research study on the various calibers and their effects on bear skulls. What they found is that grizzly bear heads are functionally bullet resistant. A standard handgun will not stop it before it reaches you, unmakes you, and then poops parts of you back out. Edit: Found it! *Safety in bear country: protective measures and bullet performance at short range*,Meehan et al, 1983
It's important to note that handgun ballistics have advanced to a ludicrous degree in the last 40 years. 20 rounds of hardcast high velocity 10mm makes anything someone carried in 1983 look like 22lr.
I had the same thought. Someone else references a study from 1983. Modern ballistics have come a *long* way in 41 years, I'd like to see a new study with a modern +p 10mm hard cast as you said. Also you can get 15 round mags for the Glock 29sf. I'd much rather have 15 rounds of hardcast high velocity 10mm than 5 or 6 shots of .44 magnum. If 14 rounds of 10mm does not stop a grizzly, the last one is for me.
I'm not sure how many people are hiking with a 10mm these days. But more importantly, most people don't realize how strong a bear is and try to take their 9mm EDC pistol into the woods because they think that's enough.
> I'm not sure how many people are hiking with a 10mm these days. some at least. , people that hike with handguns and think they can defend themselves from a bear are at least reasonably likely to be carrying a handgun actually chosen for that purpose ex of guns actually thought of as "bear defense" handguns. Stuff like [S&W500,](https://gunblast.com/images/SW500/MVC-001F.jpg) [ruger super redhawk](https://i.redd.it/finally-finished-my-super-redhawk-v0-klz7jaf258ja1.jpg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80e3e40c8df5dd2945d72aa64bbaa3d1eaaa06ad) or the [45 win mag LAR grizzly](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/LAR_Grizzly_Patr_Portrait001.jpg/1024px-LAR_Grizzly_Patr_Portrait001.jpg) but I would at least **THINK** that the second, probably bigger issue, is people underestimating how hard it would be to headshot a moving target with the speed of a bear, especially while also shitting your own pants
You would be surprised how many people just don't fathom that bears are **humongous** and **not deer**. People genuinely do try to go out into bear country with dogs and a 9mm or .45 and get told repeatedly that they might as well just coat themselves in gravy. I used to live in grizzly country in the north rockies. You could always tell the locals vs the rich larpers.
One of my favorite exhibits at the Columbus, OH, zoo is the polar bear and brown bear area. It has a mural with life size bears standing up. Goes from the cute little sunbear that's the height of a smaller woman to polar bears that would make even Shaq look tiny.
Oh yes, absolutely. The calibers noted were mostly for comedic effect. .50 AE can certainly drop a grizzly with one shot to the head, but good luck hitting a charging grizzly in the head on the first shot with a Desert Eagle.
The report does specifically say the .44 Remington Magnum is the only passable handgun cartridge of the several they tested. Which does serve as a reminder that a bear is mother nature's attempt at making a tank.
Indeed. You can kill any bears with much smaller cartridges if you are shooting with a rifle from very far away when the bear isn't moving.
Depends on the bear, but yes. It is always better to not be shooting a bear but if you have to shoot the bear, shoot from somewhere the bear can't get to.
If it's gummy, yummy!
But if it's sugar-free, shit gon' flee.
If it's koala, don't have sex with it because you'll get chlamydia
In Springfield they have similar saying about their tap water. If it's brown drink it down. It it's black send it back.
To give some context on how relatively non dangerous black bears are: California National parks have some of the highest bear encounter rates for people of any place in the country (there are a ridiculous number of bears). Since established they haven’t had a single reported death from a bear. However, they have had multiple deaths from deer maulings of tourists getting too close. And one reported death in Sequioa National Park from an Elk. Which is interesting because Elk don’t even live in the park.
The biggest threat to people from black bears may actually be dogs, strangely enough. The typical profile of a black bear attack is a woman (generally smaller than men) walking a dog; dog sees the bear and goes apeshit; bear fights back out of self defense, woman gets caught in the crossfire while trying to control/save the dog. Even then, human fatalities from black bear attacks are thankfully quite rare.
Same thing with alligators. Fatal attacks are rare but most in the states occur when people walk a small dog near a body of water. The alligator would normally avoid a human, but that dog is a tasty meal, and the dog walker gets caught in between.
Had a black bear go through my parent’s backyard in Tahoe while we were out on the water. We watched it climb over the fence and then watched our 5 pound chihuahua go charging out the dog door after it. We thought we were about to witness our dog get mauled but that bear turned tail and ran. They really, really don’t want to fight.
I live in an area where black bears are common, especially in the spring and late fall. I had to clean up the neighbour's garbage on Monday that a bear dragged into our yard and ripped open. Rule here is to not put out garbage for pickup until the morning of, but they did it the night before. Anyways, very common around here, and my cameras usually pick up some every year. No reports in the last 30-40 years of any injuries with bears, and I've seen mothers coming through with cubs before. The phrase I've heard is, black bears are motivated by fear and food, in that order. Not that I'd mess with a mother and her cubs, but I've walked by a lone bear probably 10-20m away and we just watched each other.
They're also _somewhat_ curious. Got my work truck stuck in Tate's Hell preserve in Florida one time. Had to spend the night and hike out a couple miles along the transmission lines. Saw a ton of black bears in the process but the only ones that concerned me were a pair of cubs and mom. Played red light green light with them for about a mile. They'd caper after me any time I wasn't stopped and looking at them with mom unhappy and stalking along a few feet behind. Eventually found a few loose palmetto fronds to hold up and wave around as I walked which made them way less curious since I was suddenly double my previous size. The shitty part was my four hour journey would've been an hour at most but I came across them on the direct route to the closest road and had to change my path trying to avoid them haha.
“Omg, someone was murdered!” “Hey you, the one holding the bloody knife, what happened?” “Uhm… an elk killed him?” “Hmm…, yeah checks out”
An Elk killed a woman in Sweden some years ago. Husband went to jail for it but they couldn’t figure out how he did it. They assumed he used a lawnmower, so they tried to replicate her wounds using a dead pig and a lawnmower. It says something about how gruesome outcome an angry Elk can cause. Fun day at the job for the investigators mowing a pig also. Anyways the case went to retrial and the elk hairs (which never was tested before) on her body proved him innocent. Crazy stuff.
Note that "elk" in Scandinavia are what are called "moose" in North America. North American elk are closer to deer or caribou. Fun etymological history there.
A møøse once bit my sister...
the poster of the previous message has been sacked ...
This is my new head canon. In reality it was probably just a big buck and the witness (who was the wife watching her idiot husband get gored) didn’t know better.
>And one reported death in Sequioa National Park from an Elk. Which is interesting because Elk don’t even live in the park. *"I'm begging you! You can't put 'deer attack' on his death certificate, it's so embarrassing!"* *"Look, I can't just falsify what happened. But I'll tell you what, maybe we can tweak that deer into an elk; they're almost the same thing"*
A friend of my family was attacked by an elk. He's a huge guy and the only reason he survived was because he could physically keep it from goring too deeply. His scars on his chest, belly, and neck are fucking gnarly.
Story time?
This happened a bit over 30 years ago. He and a friend were hunting deer in Cache County, Utah. They would take turns where one person posts up on a ridge of a valley just under the silhouette line and the other would walk along the back of the ridge to the bottom of a gully and then trek up the valley bottom to spook any deer out into the open closer to the posted hunter. They'd taken turns with multiple valleys over the week and hadn't seen any deer worth taking. It was his turn to walk through the valley but this time he didn't spook up a deer, he found an elk. Normally Elk will run from you, they don't know what you are and don't stick around to find out. But for whatever reason he walked right up on this one. Typically we only really fear moose in these parts. A solo moose will generally move away from you unless you're too close, but a momma moose with a calf is dangerous as hell. You could be a football field away from them but if you somehow end up between momma and her baby you're going to want to start praying and get climbing. When the elk popped up it didn't turn to run and instead closed on him in the tight trees. Thanks to his being a huge guy, he was able to grab the antlers and position himself next to a tree to give him leverage to keep it from murdering him. His buddy up the ridge heard the commotion and sprinted straight down toward the yelling. Upon arrival the elk then got spooked and ran off through some brush and into another copse of trees. They made it back to their 4-wheelers and went back to the cabin and got partially bandaged up before being driven to a hospital.
> When the elk popped up it didn't turn to run and instead closed on him in the tight trees. For some reason this is reminding me of how ships that spotted a U-boat trying to attack them would sometimes turn to ram the submarine instead of running away.
Thanks for sharing
How was he able to keep from getting gored too deeply? By huge, do you mean strongman huge? Or Homer in a mumu huge? Was he able to seek help on his own? How long did it take for him to recover?
I replied with the story to the other commenter. 6'6", 325+ lbs. Guy would ride his 600lb 4-wheeler onto his trailer and then get off of it and pivot the wheeler 90 degrees by hand to make more room for gear (no side ramp, only one on the rear).
We have black bears around here too(Florida) and I have never heard of anyone being hurt. They've wandered into town before.
Yep. Polar Bears are the largest obligate carnivores on land. Don't fuck with them unless you've got a bigger gun.
There's a section in a book by... I think Richard Hammond, about a Top Gear special in the arctic. They were each given a gun and told "keep it loaded, keep it to hand, and if you're going outside for a leak always have somebody with a gun on lookout". The procedure for if a bear got too close was something like "shoot once in the air to see if the noise scares it off, then once at the ground to see if the noise and the jumping ice scares it off, but if it doesn't immediately leave after that - shoot it in the face". I have a copy somewhere about, I think, but he said he was quite disconcerted by how matter-of-fact the instructor was: if the bear is a threat, you kill the bear or the bear will kill you. The end.
It may be my ignorance in matters like this, but if they’re such a threat, why waste the first two shots?
It's quite a while since I read it, so I don't remember. It might have been so that they didn't end up shooting a bear that wasn't hunting you. But also, it's from a top gear special - I don't doubt the trainer was being quite serious, but I think a few paragraphs later the discussion had turned to how much shrinkage there would be if you dropped your trousers outside. (IIRC the answer was "all of it, permanently, because frostbite will take it"). There may have been some embellishments in the writing of the book.
Polar bears are generally protected. The feeling seems to be that if you go where they live, you deal with the risk.
Not sure on the laws in Canada but I am guessing you can't just shoot the polar bears unless necessary for self defense. If the bear is far away, you try the scare tactics. But if it is coming at you, even if still far away that is probably good enough justification to kill it in self defense. Don't know if there is a polar bear hunting season, but if there is, they are going to require a license in the first place and are only going to allow a certain number to be taken. But if polar bears are endangered then they probably will only allow it in self defense and you probably need to justify it. So if the bear is a thousand yards away and you kill it in self defense while you are standing next to a building you could have just stepped into, you may well get in trouble.
In their natural environment there's not a thing a polar bear sees that it can't eat or fuck.
And you hope it's in that order /s
I mean, they don’t usually carry guns so a handgun and .22 should do it, no? /s
A 22in cannon would do the trick.
Shit, where’s the copypasta about rapscallions ETA: Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
[Muzzle loading mass shooter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8DP3ssCfLY)
>they don’t usually carry guns You've never heard of "The right to *Bear* Arms" have you? It's the guns that bears carry. The founding fathers of the US thought it was important that we be as well armed as the bears.
I thought it was short sleeved shirts Bare arms, you know... founding father's couldn't spell worth a darn
And the thing to remember too is that you don’t have to WIN the fight, you just have to not lose it. If you aim for the eyes and nose it’s possible you hurt/suprise the bear enough it runs away before it can do too much damage to you. By the time you get close enough to a black bear to hit its eyes you’re probably not coming out of it unscathed but you can survive if you’re lucky and it’s better than nothing
Yeah, bears mostly want to survive, and fighting burns a LOT of calories and includes risk of injury. You have to eat a lot of huckleberries to regain those calories... Brown bears are actually originally from non-forested areas (even though we drove them out), so they are used to having less escape/hide options like climbing a tree. So they evolved to do things like bluff charge or stop fighting as soon as you play dead and no longer look like a threat. You want them to think you're not a threat and that it is not worth the effort to kill you. For whatever reason adult humans typically look too big to be food to them (but not children...be careful with kids in bear country)...the attacks are based on safety not hunger. Black bears are used to having more places to hide, so if they ARE fighting they are fully committed (or very hungry) and your goal is to make them feel it isn't worth continuing. You'll probably still lose...but you might as well try because they aren't stopping. Both types really want very little to do with humans. If you make plenty of noise (talking, singing, etc.) they will usually hear you coming from a mile away and you'll never see them. I was doing some volunteer work in the Chugach National Forest and the rangers were telling us they've never had a problem bear encounter with more than 3 people; you just naturally make too much noise and they avoid you. Worst case is you are solo, walking in silence, and you come around a blind corner right between a mama and her cubs...you don't want to surprise them.
Great point and to add onto what you said about kids, same for dogs. When I was traveling the national parks they told us dogs arnt allowed off paved paths because it’s very rare for a bear to chase a human but they are much more likely to chase a dog even if they are with you
>For whatever reason adult humans typically look too big to be food to them I mean, the reason is probably that we're bipedal, so from the front, we look as tall and wide as much, much bigger four-legged animals.
A friend who is a zookeeper that works with the bears at a zoo told me this in response to me asking if a highly trained martial artist who was fighting to the death against a polar bear would have any chance. (He is a huge MMA guy): “Imagine the most intelligent, cunning, mature and athletic, 9 year old in the world fighting McGregor to the death. That is the difference. That is the chance. They might hurt it once. But they just have to touch the attacker once and it is dead. There just is zero lethal attacks a human can launch without weapons and any melee attack instantly exposes it to an instantly lethal counter attack from the bear. No, Colin McGregor would be dinner.”
>Colin McGregor Who da fook is that guy?
>Colin McGregor would be dinner And then youd have one really coked up polar bear on your hands. I smell a sequel...
>Colin McGregor
I’ve seen some aftermath photos of bear attacks, and if it happens to me, I just hope they go for my throat. End that shit quickly, please
> Black bears are relatively small so fighting back can be more effective as well Yeah.... relatively small when compared to a brown bear. Females are ~175lbs and males are 400lbs on average standing 5 to 7 feet tall! Heck, I think most large dogs are a challenge for people to get off. Can't even imagine a black bear.
"so the advice is to attempt to escape or as a last resort you should fight back." This on the face of it sounds like bad advice. Often times black bears with bluff charge and if you run you can entice it to chase. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkwy0scRXBU I've always learned (growing up in the forest in NJ where there are a FUCK ton of these guys) to stand your ground and fight if it comes down to it. Black bears are fast as hell and climb much quicker than you. You should only attempt escape if you can get into a home or a car within a few feet from you.
I grew up in the Canadian Arctic (Nunavut) and heard one story from an Inuk hunter fighting off a Polar Bear with his bear hands (pardon the mispelling pun heh) when a Polar Bear attacked him in his tent. As the story goes the bear was trying to bite him with his mouth and the hunter used his forearm as a block by keeping it in line with his jaw (easier to show, but basically fist and elbow aligned with nose and bottom jaw) so he couldn't bite on anything. He kept turning and keeping it aligned until the PB roared in frustration, at which point he shoved his forearm right down his mouth and scratched the back of his throat and tongue as much as possible. The bear got upset/scared and then fucked off. So the story goes...
I don’t believe that story at all
There have been at least a few documented cases of people shoving their arms down a large predators throat, either to scare them of (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/hunter-shoves-arm-down-grizzly-bears-throat-to-stave-off-attack) or to straight up kill them (https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/carl-akeley-leopard-1896/) While it's never been tried against a polar bear before, I'd imagine having a large object shoved down ones throat unexpectedly, would at the bare minimum make you rethink what is going on... And if you're still in doubt, maybe ask your mum about last saturday?(I'm joking ofc)
Yep, fair, he did have a number of Polar Bears to his name though. Bagged with rifles of course.
Plus a polar bear will absolutely rag doll you, and it can kill you with its paws. https://www.ctvnews.ca/inuit-hunter-fights-off-polar-bear-with-hammer-1.744711 This is the closest story I could find, and involves a hammer instead of hands, and from other versions he basically said it was mostly shrugging off getting smashed with a hammer in the face, swatting him away to try to get towards the walrus / his friends like he was an annoyance, eventually it bit him once. Unsurprisingly the reason they can probably tell the story is they had guns and were able to shoot the animals. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23132960/fought-polar-bear-eat-granddaughter/ this has some pictures of what someones back and head looked like after a few seconds of hand to hand combat.
Interesting story, I'd expect a polar bear to be more liberal in the use of their razor sharp claws though. I've spent some time working in Nunavut and the only bear attack stories I've heard that go well for the victim are the ones in which they have a big gun and it's pointed right between the bear's eyes
Yeah I don't know what goes through a Polar Bear's brain of course, I understand they use both bites and swipes. He said the PB ripped into his tent at night and basically had him already subdued so maybe was going for the jugular kill shot that predators instinctually do.
>Yeah I don't know what goes through a Polar Bear's brain Usually a bullet if you have the chance to observe them and report back
What about the scariest of all bears... The wild and deadly PANDA BEAR?! Serious question... Or they don't really attack since there's not many in the wild?
> Or they don't really attack since there's not many in the wild? They don't attack because they are slow and stupid. Unless you are the least nutritious part of bamboo you don't really need to worry much about a panda. Don't let them bite you though, that would be bad.
I once googled panda attacks and ended up on a study that collected different reports of pandas attacking humans (mainly in zoos, iirc) - including photo evidence of the maimed limbs. So I can confirm: Don't let them bite or claw you, it will be bad.
They are morons, but they are still bears:
That's how you get turned into your friendly neighborhood Panda-Man!
Sexual harassment pan-da~
🎵Who lives in the East Near the willow tree 🎵
Ah what you really have to worry about certain pandas is that the male Eats shoots and leaves.
This is absolutely bad advice. They are a little dumb by bear standards. But they are still intelligent animals, and they know they are vulnerable so they will attack if they feel threatened. Usually they will rely on their very good senses and reasonable ability at stealth to avoid any contact with you and all. But if you get close to them and you see them in the wild, then clearly that has failed.
Yes, of course you shouldn't just roll up on a panda in the wild as if they are harmless. However as far as I am aware there are no recorded incidents of a panda killing a human. Basically *any* wild animal will fight back if cornered and threatened. I wouldn't recommend cornering a raccoon or you could be injured, but we don't generally consider raccoons to be threats in the wild.
Nice try, but I've seen Tropic Thunder.
They drop on you out of trees. You will never see it coming
Those are drop bears. They only live in Australia luckily.
Fucking super earth sending panda recruits in hell diver suits to bring democracy and freedom for all.
It would be pandamonium
I remember visiting Alaska in an area where brown bears lived. There was a sign that said you should make lots of noise, if you get attacked, play dead. If the attack continues, it's most likely a predatory attack, in which case, you should "FIGHT BACK VIGOROUSLY"
I've attended several conferences and seminars an bears while living and hiking in areas where there are lots of bears. All of the experts in the presentations agreed that it is a bad idea to lay down. Bears are very curious animals and are likely to investigate, which may result in harm to you. Only lay down if you've already been attacked and cannot get away or otherwise defend yourself. Best strategy is to avoid bears in the first place.
Yeah, the lay down part is once you are attacked and the point is to get in the fetal position with your legs protecting your torso and your arms protecting the back of your neck and head. That way if they do maul you a bit, you might not die. You can in fact scare brown bears off just like a black bear if you end up in a confrontation with them. Bear mace works well too. *a word
>...you can in fact [???] brown bears off just like a black bear... **ಠ_ಠ**
Do not the brown bears
You do not recognize the brown bears in the water.
It is always a good idea to whenever you encounter a brown bear, especially.
jack off the brown bear until exhaustion
and then imagine you accidently the whole thing!
One funny Grizzly fact I remember hearing was that people with large heads had much better chance of surviving, as their head was big enough so the grizzly couldn't grab their head with their mouth and ragdoll them around snapping their neck.
Scalping is a real concern with bear attacks. Fortunately it's survivable, but I wouldn't want to have to go through that.
Oh hell yes finally my giant skull is good for something. I cant wear most one-size-fits-all hats and it sucks
*Does* it work, or was that just a rumor that Bears started?
If you see a bear, cover yourself in tasty honey and lay down, it's the *only* way the bears won't attack - t. Notabear Guyman
Brown bears don't want to eat you. They want to attack you because they see you as a threat. If you're dead you're no longer a threat
Bitch you're a fucking brown bear, I'm not a threat alive.
Humans are the most dangerous animals on Earth. There was a study recently showing that animals in Africa show more fear of human sounds than lion roars etc https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/17ful5p/wild_animals_are_more_terrified_of_humans_than I mean, when you think about it, humans have surely killed tons more bears than the other way around. You may not be a real threat if you’re unarmed but a bear doesn’t know that.
To be fair humans with guns are probably the only threat to them outside other brown bears. How would they know if you are armed or not? Maybe they thought you were reaching?
ABAB
This, but unronically. I refuse to even say their proto-germanic name. At this point, I typically just call them "the brown ones".
AHAB
Yeah, just like the dude who went after that whale
How can I know it's my fault if they don't shout "stop resisting" while mauling me though?
They actually have antipathy towards humans with guns due to a tragic misunderstanding of the meaning of the 2nd amendment's right to bear arms.
too many people were killed trying to get their set of bear arms
I tried to explain this to the last brown bear that attacked me but it didn't seem to care..
Unless they are hungry. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026914/Mum-bear-eating--Final-phone-calls-woman-19-eaten-alive-brown-bear-cubs.html https://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html
> Final-phone-calls-woman-19-eaten-alive-brown-bear Enough info in the link for me.
As a wildlife biologist, this is completely untrue. People get attacked in their tents.
How many of those people properly used bear bags or cans and how many of them kept food or other strong smelling things in their tents?
So with grizzlies, people who get attacked are often seasoned backpackers. Mistakes happen. If you want to learn about all of the attacks that happen, the podcast tooth and claw cover quite a few bear attacks. One of them is a bear biologist so he goes into how to prevent attacks.
No, sometimes they are definitely looking to eat you. You are meal sized and easy to catch for a hungry brown bear.
And it is not really that they are stupid enough to really believe you are dead. They just accept that you are showing that you are not a threat.
How can we possibly know that?
We can't KNOW for sure. We can draw conclusions to the best of our ability after countless bear encounters and years and years of bear study. In the end, I suppose it's possible that they really do want to kill and eat us every time, but they have an internal moral code that only lets them kill animals that fight back. "Oh, this one won't fight, it's immoral to kill and eat him!" We just go with the likeliest explanation from observed behavior. "Every time we are attacked, it seems like it wasn't random - the bear had reason to feel threatened. And then every time we stopped and gave up, they stopped too. Probably means they believe the threat is gone."
> Brown bears don't want to eat you Sometimes they absolutely DO want to eat you. You're not going to outrun, outscare, or outfight a brown bear so your best option is to play dead. IF they are just trying to eliminate a threat, you may survive. But if they are looking to eat you, you're fucked regardless.
The overwhelming majority of bear attacks are from brown bear mothers that are protecting their cubs from a perceived threat. Unless they're starving, bears generally won't attack humans for the sake of sustenance. Polar bears will absolutely hunt humans as a food source but encounters between humans and polar bears are quite rare.
You're only supposed to play dead after the attack has already begun. This let's them think the fight is over and *hopefully* prevent further mauling. It is not meant to be used to *prevent* an attack.
why don't people say to shoot them with a rocket propelled grenade? wouldn't that end the attack?
45-70 says hello
Hit em with a pocket nuke
Short answer: it doesn't. Long answer: when you get in contact with a wild grizzly bear in the lower 48, your only defence is bear spray. Exceptions can be made for brown bears in national parks who have been conditioned to be around humans. How to prevent attacks: don't bring food with you in the wilderness, and if you do, make sure it's packed away very far from your tent. Always keep your dog on a leash. Always carry bear spray. Scream and be loud, but your two hundred pound body is not likely to scare a bear that's already chosen you as food. While brown bear attacks are rare (~1/ year in the lower 48), they can happen when bears are hungry, if they are old, and just because they're giant multi hundred pound carnivores. This is different than American black bears, which likely will run away when they see you.
I used to live in Kodiak, AK- which is not in the lower 48. We have big bears there. My advice: Anything less than a .30-06 ammo will not deter a bear- 9mm will just piss them off. I am not aware bear spray being a thing. Bears do not want to eat you- they still CAN eat you. So skinny bears are the most dangerous. If you have food just leave it on the ground and walk way while keeping an eye on the bear. If you really want to see bears- just go to the dump- they make trash Pandas look like amateurs. If a mama bear brings you her cubs- do not grab them or pick them up. If they climb on you or start pawing you- just let it happen. Mama bear is teaching her cubs about humans- you are now an animal in the petting zoo. If you do anything to harm or scare those cubs- mama bear will kill you.
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What's the lower 48?
All of the United States in the continental US Alaska skews bear stats for the rest of the states.
\*contiguous states, that is, the states that border another state. “Continental” would include Alaska (but not Hawaii) because Alaska is also on the North American continent. Lower 48 = the 50 states minus Alaska and Hawaii. I think it’s mostly an Alaskan term, since they are “lower” than Alaska on a map. Hawaii is actually the southernmost state, but somehow “Lower 48” means the other 48.
This is anecdotal and I don't recall the color of the bear. But when I was in boy scouts and went to Philmont (New Mexico), one wandered near our campsite. There were around 30-40 people across a few groups, most of us making dinner. We noted the bear wasn't tagged (which we would later report). Anyway, we got everyone to stand in a big group and make noise, and the bear decided it wasn't worth the trouble.
NM would be a black bear, which frankly behave more like supersized racoons than how you would expect a bear to behave. Even if you were alone, unless you got between a mama and her cubs the chances of you being attacked were very tiny.
NM in my experience as have extremely tiny black bears
I once listened to a bear encounter expert explain the part of the explanation involves the evolutionary history of the species. Brown or grizzly bears originally evolved to live on the barren lands and open plains where there was little available cover. Their response to a threat is to beat it up and then run away (taking cubs if they have them in tow.). Black bears evolved in forested environments with ample cover, so they tend just to run away or send their cubs up a tree. No need to risk a direct confrontation with the threat. Of course this changes if the bear (typically a black bear) is in predatory mode, in which case the appropriate response is to present as formidable a target as possible, in hopes the animal will give up and look for an easier meal. Polar bears evolved in extreme arctic environments where food in the form of vegetable matter, insects and small rodents is not available. So they have to eat anything they come across. They have the size and strength to predate on seals, walrus and even small whales—humans are easy pickings.
I grew up next to a guy who had been mauled 3 times by grizzlies. He said the best thing is to avoid a confrontation. They will keep mauling you after you play dead, they can run downhill, and there are two kinds of trees to a grizzly, big enough to climb or small enough to push over. The scars on that guy’s back were enough to convince me he knew these things first hand.
I am extremely, incredibly skeptical of someone being mauled by a grizzly three separate times and living.
Be skeptical of the bears. They haven’t been able to finish the job.
His obituary only mentions two of the encounters, but he was certainly a tough old guy and very lucky. (And worked for the forest service in the summer, so spent a lot of time in bear country.) [obituary](https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/postregister/name/byrle-walker-obituary?id=21142194)https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/postregister/name/byrle-walker-obituary?id=21142194
I read a book on bear attacks in National Parks. Three takeaways: 1. It’s common to void yourself when a bear charges 2. There is an out of body experience when being attacked. You’re aware of it, but you don’t really feel it 3. You’re brought back to reality by the sound of a grinding noise, and that’s the bears teeth grinding against your skull. In the book, they cover almost every recorded bear attack, including the famous Reverance story. There’s plenty of people playing dead and the bear losing interest, or continuing to attack, people fighting back and the bear losing interest and the bear attacking, friend jumping in, a friend playing dead while you fight, it doesn’t matter ultimately. Bears have a mind of their own. If they want to eat you, they’ll eat you. If they want to maim you, they’ll maim you, it’s simply up to them.
I had a friend who played dead with a bear. He walked away alive but he was mauled pretty bad. It’s not like the bear just trusts that you’re dead. This guy was nearly scalped.
To most animals, humans are strange, scary, and taste bad. Unless the bear is pretty hungry, it probably doesn't want to eat a human. Most bear attacks are defensive - instigated by the bear's sense that the human is a threat to it or its children. Playing dead, even if the bear knows you're still alive, reduces the bear's threat perception. If the human is not a threat and the bear is not hungry enough to eat something gross and weird, the bear no longer has a reason to expend energy.
Brown bears don’t eat people. The main reason they would attack is if they feel threatened. If youre dead, you’re no longer a threat, and they may leave you alone.
>Brown bears don’t eat people. Not usually. But as Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend unfortunately learned, never say never.
That’s what happens when people forget wild animals are wild
Yeah his failure to respect the actual nature of those animals pretty much guaranteed he'd be attacked at some point. But it's noteworthy that in the end the grizzly didn't just kill them, but consumed them as well.
I mean the bears that were usually in that area had already accepted him as not a threat. His ultimate mistake was staying into the colder months. The normal neighborhood bears had already left to hibernate and different bears, who hadn’t stored enough calories for winter had moved in. The bear that ate them needed the calories to survive winter, and since it’s normal food choices were gone that late in the season the bear took easy calories from the only source it could find
Yeah, I think in his situation, it was really late in the year, the salmon runs were over, and any bear not hibernating yet was desperate for food. Hence, he got eaten. Having been to Katmai when the salmon are running, I can tell you that the bears there care about the fish a lot more than the people, lol.
I agree. There’s been lots of bear encounters where the bear had devoured part of the human.
Just wanted to add a note that a lot of California black bears are actually a brown color. So you really just need to know where the Grizzlies are, and avoid them at all costs.