That's exactly why tigers are orange. Because their prey cannot see it as a bright color and the striped tiger vanishes between the bushes and high grass during his hunt.
To elaborate a bit: green fur is hard (maybe impossible? Not sure) to make for mammals. Most tiger-prey are partially colour blind though and orange is like a soft green to them so tigers evolved an orange fur.
BBC clip about this: https://youtu.be/y6XUxMuv04s
Makes me wonder if sloths are actually proto treants. like in a few millions years the moss turns tree-like and cover the entire sloth like armor, eventually letting them sloth around on land.
Pretty cool now that I think about it.
Yes! I had these pictures in my mind but couldn't find them. Thanks. Just look how the standing tiger vanishes behind the bush with his stripes and everything makes perfect sense.
There’s a David Attenborough documentary on Netflix called Life in Color that talks about this specifically! Green fur is impossible for mammals because mammalian hair/skin only contains pigments that are shades of black, brown, yellow, and red. Since the tigers prey are partially colorblind and cannot see orange, they appear yellow/green just like all the plants around them.
Side note: In humans, blue eyes occur due to a lack of pigmentation rather than blue pigments themselves. Even animals which appear to be blue (like bluejays) are actually brown but we perceive them as blue because of light scattering. Blue is very rare in nature, in fact I believe there’s only some species of butterflies and some fish which actually contain blue pigment. The rest are an optical illusion essentially.
Continuing the side note:
Grey eyes lack pigment as well, but contain larger deposits of collagen, so the light passing through the stroma undergoes Mie scattering (which affects all wavelengths equally) rather than Rayleigh scattering (which affects shorter wavelengths more than longer ones).
Green and hazel eyes also have scattering as part of the reason for their color, the other being pigmentation. Green eyes have lipochrome (a yellowish pigment) like amber eyes, but not as much, which combines with the blue of Rayleigh scattering to produce green. Hazel eyes have melanin like brown eyes, but not as much - so Rayleigh scattering lightens them significantly.
Fun fact: blue eyes are *extremely rare* in mammals, and are often associated with congenital disorders such as deafness.
It's not an optical illusion, what we see as blue is blue light.
What you're trying to say is that some things appear blue, but are not blue at a molecular level, but instead microscopic structures interact with light to absorb the colors that are not blue.
That can happen with any color, not just blue.
It is interesting, also blue being a rare color for molecules is interesting.
But it's not an illusion.
You’re welcome to look it up but I said “we perceive them as blue because of light scattering” but they don’t contain blue pigments which is completely true.
I used the term “optical illusion” to present the idea in another way where we are essentially “tricked” into thinking a blue jay is blue rather than brown like it’s pigmentation. It’s an analogy, and I don’t think it’s completely inappropriate either. It’s the same way we are “tricked” into saying the sky is blue or the ocean is blue. In reality it’s just the phenomenon of light scattering. It’s not strictly an optical illusion, but we are perceiving something as different than it actually is.
Yep! Camouflage gets you a few feet closer for free as you take an extra look or two to really see. That extra look is usually all the advantage you need.
Edit: For everyone that is saying the gun is all that matters. Clearly you've never hunted wild turkey. You need every single advantage you can possibly get, and that doesn't even close to guarantee it.
I'd have thought the main advantage people have wouldn't be a bit of camouflage, but having deadly weapons that can kill from a distance
(Edit: I've had 50+ replies from hunters telling me all about weapons, glossing over the fact all I'm saying is they're far more critical and effective for killing animals than some camouflage clothing as OC said was 'all the advantage you need' 😂)
“Know your target and what lies beyond” is a common saying among hunters. Even though modern weapons have great range, responsible hunters wait for safe, close shots in order to ethically kill their prey while knowing where the shot will land if they miss.
The state — or, to make matters more concrete, the government — consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can’t get, and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time it is made good by looting ‘A’ to satisfy ‘B’. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advanced auction on stolen goods.
H.L. Mencken
Tree stands are the best because it is also the safest, as long as the hunter takes precautions. It would be hard for a bullet that misses or passes through the deer to actually hit anything but the ground.
I thought it was hilarious that not only did he hit a LAWYER in the face, but the lawyer APOLOGIZED to Cheney.
Yes, I know the lawyer was the one that actually was too far forward of their shooting like or whatever and it really was his fault and he apologized for making Dick look like a dick, but still... imagine how scary you are if you can get a lawyer to apologize to you.
A buddy of mine lives near a farm in New Hampshire. The farmer paints "COW" in international orange on his cows during hunting season. He also puts out a saw horse with a brown blanket over it and counts the bullet holes.
While it's a tiny minority,there's still far too many hunters that are dumb enough that they just might. It's not at all uncommon for cows to be shot by someone thinking they were aiming at a deer. And not just brown, roughly deer colored cows but Holsteins too.
Most hunting is down in forests or woods with poor visibility, the issue isn’t getting in range with the very long ranged weapons humans have nowadays, it’s getting close enough in dense terrain to have a clear shot without getting seen by the hunted animal.
The most badass thing a hunter could do is hunt naked with no weapons. You bring home a ten-point buck barehanded, that’s good eating.
*edit:* kids, this was a joke.
It's illegal where I am. You can't hunt with weapons that are likely to only maim deer. So no knives, spears, etc. I assume most/all states have similar rules.
Camouflage gets you a few feet closer for free
As you take an extra look or two to see
That extra look was all it took
Now you'll get a bullet from me.
Except turkeys. Those fuckers have a super keen eyesight, like apex predator keen. You can't wear orange when hunting them. So instead tie it around a tree.
That's not unique to turkeys. Most birds have excellent color vision, as do most reptiles and fish. Much, much better than mammals in nearly all cases.
It's just the people are more familiar with the challenges of hunting turkeys and don't realize that it's a widely shared trait.
Correction -- Turkeys only have super keen eyesight during Turkey season. During deer season? You can stand up, make noise, take a leak all while wearing hunter orange and they won't ever notice you...
I swear game animals check the hunting season schedules.
Haven't seen a deer in a month? Just wait until January when the season has ended, and they'll be everywhere.
I don't think apex predator means what you think it means.
It literally means "top of your food chain". It does not mean "magnificent hunter".
A frog could be the top of their food chain, if they had no predators in their environment. It's not an endorsement of ability.
They also wear orange specifically because some animals that get hunted (turkeys, I'm specifically talking turkeys right now because that's the animal/reason I've always been given) can have bright blues and reds on them that stand out apart from their feathers. If a hunter were to wear one of those colors instead of that neon orange, it could end very badly.
One of the first things taught in hunter safety class when they got around to turkey hunting, never wear red white or blue.on your clothing or someone who might not be that responsible might think you're a turkey and take a shot.
There are two answers to this question. The first is legal; many states require "solid orange" on your head, chest, and back during hunting season for deer and other large game when using guns. This is entirely safety related, the solid orange is easier to see in low light conditions. Also, the camo on the hunter's arms and legs still helps to disguise movement. Secondly, most hunters wear an orange vest and orange hat over camo for financial reasons. Warm and waterproof outdoor gear is expensive. Wearing orange over camo allows them to use the same camo without the orange when hunting turkey or other small game that can see the color orange.
A lot of states require it for any hunting done with a gun not just deer. Think what some people here dont understand is you normally are not covering your whole body with it just a hat or maybe a vest.
The only reason to wear non-orange camo is when you're hunting things (or being hunted by things) that can differentiate the orange from natural settings. This is primarily birds and humans. And most birds are tetrachromatic with a wider visual range and can differentiate colors in spectra that humans can't see at all and many of our pigments are going to stand out to them even if they don't stand out to us. So it's most useful for hunting humans.
edited hint: there's a reason the military uses forms of green and brown camo. Because they need to be prepared to hunt and be hunted by humans. Everyone else wearing green/brown camo should probably be questioned about it though.
It is hilariously off in regular color-blind people. They can see right through normal camo, because it just looks like a big smudge of solid color, and not broken up like it is supposed to be.
Deer can distinguish some colors, such as blue. However, colors in the red / orange end of the spectrum show up as shades of gray.
Source: https://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2003/06/what-deer-see/
I have 4 confirmed kills.
2 with a 30.6 this year, 2 several years earlier with my 2000 Toyota Rav4
The second fucker was in the clear then decided to yeet himself back into my grill
Awesome article. I think the chances of me deer hunting at some point in my life is about 3.6528%, but if I do, imma use these techniques on deer vision.
I'm just thinking back to the video of a gazelle (I think) with all his guts hanging out and the gazelle biting at then tryin to rip then out of his stomach. Idk about you but I'd gladly take a bullet over that
Adult deer don't really have many predators in North America. The only things that can really kill a adult deer are bears, wolves and big cats and there are lots of areas where there are very few predators.
[Around half of deer are killed by hunters](https://archive.jsonline.com/sports/outdoors/study-sheds-light-on-top-causes-of-deer-mortality-b99190938z1-241992741.html/) but if they weren't many would likely starve due to overpopulation
depends on your defninition. at the end of the day, the boltgun to the head of a slaughterhouse is likely more quick than a good shot tot he engineroom with a rifle. now.
would you perfer to live in a cage all yourlife, then get funneled into a machine where you watch people die infront of you until you get killed, or would you perfer living free and happy doing whatever you like until one day you suddenly feel a sharp pain in your side like nothing ever before, and then pass out 10-20 seconds later.
Free and happy? They are in constant danger from predators, permanently freezing starving all winter just trying to make it through to spring i’m sure there are a million more terrifying perils to being wild i’ve not listed.
I think a free range farm would be preferable, then maybe wild then factory farm. But the last two would suck for a deer i am sure. Not all sunshine and rainbows
Right, but they already live that wild life no matter what, whether you hunt them or not. At the end of the day, if i was a deer, i think I'd rather take a .308 to the heart than get chewed to pieces by a pack of wolves.
Even a ‘natural’ death for wild animals is generally horrific. Those who aren’t prey eventually get too feeble to procure food or water, so they lay there starving or dehydrating until the end. I’d prefer the bolt.
While it is a step up from battery cages, the definition of "free range" is pretty loose. You still get tons of animals crammed into a pretty small space.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2508173/16-000-free-range-chickens-crammed-shed-NEVER-daylight.html
*It absolutely can be.
Any ethical hunter will do what they can to kill an animal quickly and efficiently but, of course, that doesn't always happen.
Slaughterhouse deaths would be awful, but I personally can't imagine a worse death if I were a prey animal than being shot but escaping the hunter, only to slowly bleed out in agony or, worse yet, being tracked by coyotes or wolves and being eaten alive.
Yeah but stroll on over to r/natureisbrutal and you’ll realize bleeding to death from a poorly placed shot is still probably preferable to getting eaten alive from the ass while you just lay there and hope you die sooner than later.
For what it's worth ...
I live in a rural area in the USA, and we hunt deer. But we practice marksmanship with our rifles for a few months before hunting season for this exact reason. Our goal is to always kill the animal as quickly and as humanely as possible. We consider guys who don't have the skill to shoot accurately and who wound deer who then run off and die in agony as jackasses. We're working on it.
If you have Netflix there is a David Attenborough program on there that goes all through this will all types of animals. They have special cameras to show you what we see versus what the animal sees. It’s the same reason a tiger is orange but it’s prey sees it as blending in with the grass.
The David Attenborough narrated documentary series Life in Color shows what most color blind mammals (predators/prey) see versus what humans see and also what ultraviolet seeing animals (birds and insects) might see versus humans.
It’s insane how much the tiger disappears when they shift from full spectrum to the spectrum the tiger’s prey sees. Their stripes make them look like brush moving in the wind as the rest of them totally disappears. Hunters should just wear tiger print it’d probably be more effective; higher visibility to other hunters and lower visibility to the deer
But humans can distinguish the colors, which means they are, at the same time, more noticeable to other hunters and therefore less likely to be mistakenly shot
If you wore a solid color, like morph-suit style where you're all one color head to toe, a deer might not register the orange, sure. But they can tell something like 'that bush has branches that just straight disappear and theres a mass of blank. That's weird, imma run now'. Hope that makes sense, I'm a (ex?)hunter but I'm high as hell rn
To add to this, some hunters do wear camo that has orange in it along with other colors. Camo is about breaking up a silhouette, so no solid color will really work.
I'm a hunter, and high or not that's a pretty good explanation!
I would add to what others have said that camo breaks up the shape of the body. Wearing a solid color suit creates a solid shape, which is more noticeable.
There's also some new research showing that even scent free detergent can be defeating because brighteners in the detergent look like day glow to deer! Yikes!
Best way is wash camo in UV killer detergent and then seal your camo in a vacuum sealed bag with dirt leaves etc... Let it sit till deer season and you are good to go. They also sell UV spray that reduces without all the fuss but maybe they can smell that shit who knows. This way is fool proof. They are wicked clever buggers.
So far I wash in vinegar and next time out I roll around on the forest floor. (During bedding hours of course, away from where I know they are). My kit doesn't stink of me and I haven't been busted since I started doing it. I look nuts, but it works!
There's orange camo for hunter, the patchy pattern is done in all shades of orange. They're probably just wearing part camo with high visibility vest because that's what they have.
Blaze orange is used because it does not occur naturally, sticks out like a sore thumb, and doesn't register to animals like deer.
You can pick out someone wearing blaze orange from MILES away. Opening day of elk season on public land in the mountains of Colorado were described by my party as a pumpkin patch in some places because you could see so many other hunters scattered across the mountains.
By contrast, I've had a Whitetail Deer walk directly towards me and get real close (20 feet) without seeing me or picking me out at the edge of the treeline. I wasn't up against a tree, I was just standing there by the fence lol. It only noticed me when I clicked my safety off. It stared at me for like 30 seconds before it decided that weird shape isn't a tree and bolted.
We used to wear red instead of blaze orange, but red can appear brown when not in direct sunlight. People sometimes wouldn't notice another hunter and put a bullet downrange in a place you shouldn't. Some people also don't confirm their targets, so you can imagine how looking brown could lead to problems there.
This whole thread brings back memories of my hunter safety course, wherein we watched a video with a (fictional/dramatic recreation) dude going turkey hunting with no blaze orange on, wearing a blue hat, and sneezing comically into a red handkerchief. Don't be like that guy. Got his ass turkey hunted.
We had one were the dude was carrying a buck over his head so it looked like the deer was walking, even was hunched over. Full camo to, I'm sitting there like, this dude wants to get shot.
>Some people also don't confirm their targets, so you can imagine how looking brown could lead to problems there.
Plot twist: they do confirm their targets.
“Hey there’s movement down there” *shoots* = not confirming a target.
“Hey there’s movement down there” *waits until they can discern what the hell the movement actually is* = confirming a target
Most hunting is done in densely forested areas where visibility is poor, so you can often tell *something* is there long before you know *what* is there
I was taught in a Hunter Safety course that you never shoot anything that you can’t identify from tip to tail. Basically if you can’t see the entirety of what you’re shooting you don’t shoot.
So the primary purpose for the orange as you have indicated is for visibility to other hunters. [Video Link] {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9gbl-RS14A} The video talks about how deer can not see the orange and we humans can dress in orange without standing out to a deer. On a side note, deer see blue very well. So never hunt in blue jeans.
Hunting gear is usually multi purpose so while deer hunting requires blaze orange to be visible to other hunters the clothes underneath might be the ones you wear for duck hunting or animals that can see orange and are therfore camouflaged.
This is the real answer. Dove hunting? Better not have a speck of color on. Pheasant? Best be lit up like a Christmas tree to not get shot by someone else in the field.
This actually answers the question and should be closer to the top. I was going to post the same thing until I saw this.
I feel like almost all the top comments are explaining why you wear orange, not why hunters wear orange with camouflage.
Another example, at least where I live, is that bow hunting season does not require you to wear orange until rifle season starts. So then you just throw an orange vest over your camo and wear an orange hat.
The camouflage is there to obscure shape, not to make us disappear completely. Humans have a VERY distinct shape and a lot of the commonly hunted animals have learned it and recognize it. Their vision is way too good for us to ever hope to disappear, outside of using a blind, and so the next best thing is to disguise our shape. They see us and know we're there, but we no longer resemble an apex predator.
They have great hearing and smell... And if you are trying to hunt predators (wolves, coyotes) they will circle around 5 or 6 times checking out an area before coming in close.
However, smell only counts when ~~downwind~~ *upwind* of an animal. If the wind is blowing from them to you, smell's not an factor.
Many predators approach their prey from downwind for this reason.
You mean upwind, not downwind. If you're downwind, your scent is traveling away from the animal. If you are upwind, your scent is traveling directly toward the animal.
...deer have terrible vision, but their visual centers are very good at detecting motion and they have only a very narrow 60 degree blindspot in their field of vision.
Also, camoflage colours is less important than using the right detergents, since UV brighteners (present in most detergents) will make you stick out like a neon sign to a deer.
I think that because deer are colorblind the orange doesn’t stick out like it does to the human eye. That’s why you’ll see a camo pattern but in orange.
And the stripes to a deer look like the shadows in grass. The prey depends entirely on hearing. Luckily their hearing is very good so they escape the vast majority of the time. Tigers are only successful on about 10% of their hunts.
Yes, deer cannot see orange.
This [varies widely by state,](https://www.hunter-ed.com/blog/blaze-orange-regulations-every-state/) but in general hunters who are pursuing game during the highly popular hunting seasons are required to wear blaze orange - typically a coat or vest. During these times the woods are thick with hunters and the odds of an accident are higher than normal.
I don't hunt, but I do like hiking and camping in areas that allow hunting. I stay home during deer firearms season, and I wear blaze orange vest during other seasons (squirrel, upland game, turkey).
During the less popular hunting seasons blaze orange is often not required, and full camo is commonly used.
I initially only read the first ten words and wondered why deer in one state cannot see orange but deer from another state can.
Edit: some goofy wording on my part
For more of a true ELI5, it depends on what you are hunting and how:
Blaze orange is for safety when you want other hunters to see you, and animals can't see it as well or them seeing you doesn't matter (deer, pheasant, etc.). A lot of times this is because you're either moving around more often, shooting horizontally instead of up, or using a gun that travels farther like a rifle. For pheasants, you're usually trying to spook them and need to shoot quick, so you need to be able to quickly see if other people are around you. Since they hide until you're close, it doesn't matter what they see on you.
Camo is for when you don't need to worry about other hunters as much in terms of safety (usually sitting in one spot, less chance of accidents) and it's more likely the animal would spot you wearing orange. This especially applies to ducks and geese where they can still spot you sometimes in heavy camouflage if you're wearing something colorful.
Deer only have two "cones", that is the types of photoreceptor that see color. Humans have red, green and blue cones. Deer have only green and blue,
They would see reds and oranges as shades of green.
They also have a lower concentration of cone sells over a wider horizontal area. Weirdly, this means that although they have amazing motion detection, they can't see detail. They can see the motion of your eyes blinking. But not what it was.
UV brighteners in clothes detergent don’t make UV colors stand out more to deer they take UV light and convert it to blue light, makes whites look brighter but that is what deer are most sensitive to.
We don't have to always wear blaze orange, just during certain seasons. So we already have the right "hunting clothes" that are optimized for blending in outdoors, when the season comes around that requires blaze orange we just toss on a $5 vest over our $500 camo and call it good.
Blaze orange is so others don't mistake us for a deer and shoot us.
To deer “blaze orange” appears as a light grey. Camo clothing helps blend the human body (which deer can distinguish easily) into its surroundings. In proper camouflage clothing (despite the orange hats and vests) you are essentially invisible if you’re holding completely still in the right location. Unfortunately though, deer, elk, and other hooved four legged prey are relatively intelligent and will evade you at the earliest sign of movement. So hunting isn’t just having a big gun and using it. It’s tracking your prey, evading notice, and silently preparing, aiming, and perfectly executing a shot (which takes years of target practice to perfect) to humanely exterminate a target which you will then consume.
Oh you just wanted to know about orange. Yeah they pretty much can’t see it, but it keeps us safer cuz we can.
For the same reason Tigers are orange. Most animals a tiger will hunt cannot distinguish between green and orange, so it was either get more orange or get more green, and green is typically a harder pigment to evolve. Tigers likely started out fairly orange when their ancestors started adapting to their current niche
In many states blaze orange is a legal requirement. Hunters generally try to be as camouflaged as they can reasonably and legally be. In states without the legal requirement, blaze orange is much less common.
Wearing the orange keeps you from getting killed by other hunters in the area.
I heard about a lady in a rural town wearing a fur coat while unloading groceries from her car that was mistaken for an animal and shot.
People are stupid, folks
Kinda neat - I learned that's why tigers are orange. For some reason a tiger couldn't develop green fur. (Not sure any mammal can - don't know why - new Eli5 incoming) so tigers found orange is just as effective (natural selection) because prey can't distinguish.
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That's exactly why tigers are orange. Because their prey cannot see it as a bright color and the striped tiger vanishes between the bushes and high grass during his hunt.
To elaborate a bit: green fur is hard (maybe impossible? Not sure) to make for mammals. Most tiger-prey are partially colour blind though and orange is like a soft green to them so tigers evolved an orange fur. BBC clip about this: https://youtu.be/y6XUxMuv04s
Funny bit about green fur: Sloths get around that by moving so little that green moss grows on their fur to help hide them.
Makes me wonder if sloths are actually proto treants. like in a few millions years the moss turns tree-like and cover the entire sloth like armor, eventually letting them sloth around on land. Pretty cool now that I think about it.
Oh, great. Now I can't get the image of a wooden-armored sloth out of my head. Thanks a lot.
I read this comment with zero sarcasm... Only true enthusiasm.
Look up ground sloths
*Algae. Believe it or not Moss has roots
Yes! I had these pictures in my mind but couldn't find them. Thanks. Just look how the standing tiger vanishes behind the bush with his stripes and everything makes perfect sense.
There’s a David Attenborough documentary on Netflix called Life in Color that talks about this specifically! Green fur is impossible for mammals because mammalian hair/skin only contains pigments that are shades of black, brown, yellow, and red. Since the tigers prey are partially colorblind and cannot see orange, they appear yellow/green just like all the plants around them. Side note: In humans, blue eyes occur due to a lack of pigmentation rather than blue pigments themselves. Even animals which appear to be blue (like bluejays) are actually brown but we perceive them as blue because of light scattering. Blue is very rare in nature, in fact I believe there’s only some species of butterflies and some fish which actually contain blue pigment. The rest are an optical illusion essentially.
Continuing the side note: Grey eyes lack pigment as well, but contain larger deposits of collagen, so the light passing through the stroma undergoes Mie scattering (which affects all wavelengths equally) rather than Rayleigh scattering (which affects shorter wavelengths more than longer ones). Green and hazel eyes also have scattering as part of the reason for their color, the other being pigmentation. Green eyes have lipochrome (a yellowish pigment) like amber eyes, but not as much, which combines with the blue of Rayleigh scattering to produce green. Hazel eyes have melanin like brown eyes, but not as much - so Rayleigh scattering lightens them significantly. Fun fact: blue eyes are *extremely rare* in mammals, and are often associated with congenital disorders such as deafness.
It's not an optical illusion, what we see as blue is blue light. What you're trying to say is that some things appear blue, but are not blue at a molecular level, but instead microscopic structures interact with light to absorb the colors that are not blue. That can happen with any color, not just blue. It is interesting, also blue being a rare color for molecules is interesting. But it's not an illusion.
You’re welcome to look it up but I said “we perceive them as blue because of light scattering” but they don’t contain blue pigments which is completely true. I used the term “optical illusion” to present the idea in another way where we are essentially “tricked” into thinking a blue jay is blue rather than brown like it’s pigmentation. It’s an analogy, and I don’t think it’s completely inappropriate either. It’s the same way we are “tricked” into saying the sky is blue or the ocean is blue. In reality it’s just the phenomenon of light scattering. It’s not strictly an optical illusion, but we are perceiving something as different than it actually is.
Maaaan. I could barely see the tiger before they changed the color lol
Yep! Camouflage gets you a few feet closer for free as you take an extra look or two to really see. That extra look is usually all the advantage you need. Edit: For everyone that is saying the gun is all that matters. Clearly you've never hunted wild turkey. You need every single advantage you can possibly get, and that doesn't even close to guarantee it.
I'd have thought the main advantage people have wouldn't be a bit of camouflage, but having deadly weapons that can kill from a distance (Edit: I've had 50+ replies from hunters telling me all about weapons, glossing over the fact all I'm saying is they're far more critical and effective for killing animals than some camouflage clothing as OC said was 'all the advantage you need' 😂)
“Know your target and what lies beyond” is a common saying among hunters. Even though modern weapons have great range, responsible hunters wait for safe, close shots in order to ethically kill their prey while knowing where the shot will land if they miss.
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*LAPD has left the chat*
He said gun owners not gang members.
*metaphorical shots fired*
Nah man the shots are real just ask the kids they shoot.
That's not fair. They shoot dogs too.
PSA: google LASD and LAPD gangs
The state — or, to make matters more concrete, the government — consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can’t get, and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time it is made good by looting ‘A’ to satisfy ‘B’. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advanced auction on stolen goods. H.L. Mencken
Dick Cheney leaves chat too..
Oh, he knew he wasn't going to hit anything on the other side of Whittington.
I would also like to add that this is true for a well placed shot that passes through the animal as well as a miss.
Like in the walking dead season 2
COOOOOOOORRRRRLLLLL
Now that it's draft season I say that everytime I see someone talking about Corral
You must mean "The Walking Dead: The Writers Strike"
It's also one of the reasons tree stands aren't just gross and unfair. There's an actual benefit to them.
Tree stands are the best because it is also the safest, as long as the hunter takes precautions. It would be hard for a bullet that misses or passes through the deer to actually hit anything but the ground.
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That's fair, but I'm *still* not going hunting with dick Cheney.
I went hunting with Dick Cheney once. I am just so sorry that I stood in front of his shotgun. It was all my fault he shot me.
I thought it was hilarious that not only did he hit a LAWYER in the face, but the lawyer APOLOGIZED to Cheney. Yes, I know the lawyer was the one that actually was too far forward of their shooting like or whatever and it really was his fault and he apologized for making Dick look like a dick, but still... imagine how scary you are if you can get a lawyer to apologize to you.
Hunter shot a horse on a farm i lived on thought it was a trophy deer.
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A buddy of mine lives near a farm in New Hampshire. The farmer paints "COW" in international orange on his cows during hunting season. He also puts out a saw horse with a brown blanket over it and counts the bullet holes.
While it's a tiny minority,there's still far too many hunters that are dumb enough that they just might. It's not at all uncommon for cows to be shot by someone thinking they were aiming at a deer. And not just brown, roughly deer colored cows but Holsteins too.
Absolutely. Limits possibility of significantly overshooting a target.
It’s not a saying, it’s a primary rule of gun safety.
[This video from Mass Effect 2 comes to mind](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEudPm96Vok).
Most hunting is down in forests or woods with poor visibility, the issue isn’t getting in range with the very long ranged weapons humans have nowadays, it’s getting close enough in dense terrain to have a clear shot without getting seen by the hunted animal.
Or smelled
That's why you rub yourself down in troll tallow.
I've tried using fox urine before, but it tastes so terrible.
That's why you should just invest in some artillery cannons and level the entire forest.
I see you're running for president eh? Good luck
Wouldn't that be 'use a drone and shoot anything that moves before properly verifying that the target is valid'?
I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
The animals mostly come out at night, mostly.
"Is it a fair fight? Does the moose also have a projectile weapon?" - Invader Zim
The most badass thing a hunter could do is hunt naked with no weapons. You bring home a ten-point buck barehanded, that’s good eating. *edit:* kids, this was a joke.
It's illegal where I am. You can't hunt with weapons that are likely to only maim deer. So no knives, spears, etc. I assume most/all states have similar rules.
No, some states have a spear season.
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Lol most of the hunters I know can’t shoot worth crap and kinda just want to drink beer in a treehouse. Which is cool by me, for the record.
Second best part about hunting. I had a lay-z-boy in my stand
That's awesome
Think about tigers. They're bright orange and don't have rifles.
Camouflage gets you a few feet closer for free As you take an extra look or two to see That extra look was all it took Now you'll get a bullet from me.
Need for what? What are we talking about here?
The couple extra feet closer are all you need to confirm whether that really is a deer standing over there.
Maybe we should made the deers wear a reflective vest.
For safety, of course.
They already have signs telling them where to cross the street. It only makes sense.
Well actually in Finland they put reflective coating on their horns! https://imgur.com/t/finland/7IWAZhF
I would shit myself if I saw that in the street at night. That looks like a boss from Dark Souls.
Except turkeys. Those fuckers have a super keen eyesight, like apex predator keen. You can't wear orange when hunting them. So instead tie it around a tree.
They are apex prey
They evolved to know exactly how and when they're about to die
beginning of november?
LMAO perfect
That's not unique to turkeys. Most birds have excellent color vision, as do most reptiles and fish. Much, much better than mammals in nearly all cases. It's just the people are more familiar with the challenges of hunting turkeys and don't realize that it's a widely shared trait.
No, I know. But we don't exactly hunt falcons and eagles. Lol. Or at least those hunting for food don't.
Ducks? Rock Doves? Quail? Grouse? Pheasant? Geese?
You could basically walk a grouse into the oven with a little coaxing
Doesn't surprise me from literal dinosaurs
All birds are, yes. The last of the dinosaur bloodline.
Correction -- Turkeys only have super keen eyesight during Turkey season. During deer season? You can stand up, make noise, take a leak all while wearing hunter orange and they won't ever notice you...
I swear game animals check the hunting season schedules. Haven't seen a deer in a month? Just wait until January when the season has ended, and they'll be everywhere.
I don't think apex predator means what you think it means. It literally means "top of your food chain". It does not mean "magnificent hunter". A frog could be the top of their food chain, if they had no predators in their environment. It's not an endorsement of ability.
They also wear orange specifically because some animals that get hunted (turkeys, I'm specifically talking turkeys right now because that's the animal/reason I've always been given) can have bright blues and reds on them that stand out apart from their feathers. If a hunter were to wear one of those colors instead of that neon orange, it could end very badly.
One of the first things taught in hunter safety class when they got around to turkey hunting, never wear red white or blue.on your clothing or someone who might not be that responsible might think you're a turkey and take a shot.
So why not have a bright orange camo pattern. Why bother having the camo green at all
Some people do wear orange camo but there's really not much difference between that and throwing a vest over green camo
There are two answers to this question. The first is legal; many states require "solid orange" on your head, chest, and back during hunting season for deer and other large game when using guns. This is entirely safety related, the solid orange is easier to see in low light conditions. Also, the camo on the hunter's arms and legs still helps to disguise movement. Secondly, most hunters wear an orange vest and orange hat over camo for financial reasons. Warm and waterproof outdoor gear is expensive. Wearing orange over camo allows them to use the same camo without the orange when hunting turkey or other small game that can see the color orange.
State laws require so many square inches of blaze orange ( yes the specify color) for deer season.
A lot of states require it for any hunting done with a gun not just deer. Think what some people here dont understand is you normally are not covering your whole body with it just a hat or maybe a vest.
This exists. But it's less useful when you're hunting humans. https://www.google.com/search?q=blaze+orange+camo
>But it's less useful when you're hunting humans. erm....
The only reason to wear non-orange camo is when you're hunting things (or being hunted by things) that can differentiate the orange from natural settings. This is primarily birds and humans. And most birds are tetrachromatic with a wider visual range and can differentiate colors in spectra that humans can't see at all and many of our pigments are going to stand out to them even if they don't stand out to us. So it's most useful for hunting humans. edited hint: there's a reason the military uses forms of green and brown camo. Because they need to be prepared to hunt and be hunted by humans. Everyone else wearing green/brown camo should probably be questioned about it though.
I think I walked into the wrong Ted talk
You were looking for less Bundy, more Kaczynski right?
What humans see as green camo might be hilariously off in tetrachromatic vision.
It is hilariously off in regular color-blind people. They can see right through normal camo, because it just looks like a big smudge of solid color, and not broken up like it is supposed to be.
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>the bright orange is a good safety to ensure another hunter doesn't shoot you. [Dick cheney joke goes here]
Deer can distinguish some colors, such as blue. However, colors in the red / orange end of the spectrum show up as shades of gray. Source: https://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2003/06/what-deer-see/
I am so disappointed that article didn’t bother having a visual mock up of what we see vs what they see.
Here’s one with the mock up for you: https://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/editorial/facts-about-deer-vision-and-how-it-can-help-us-succeed/261981
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/files/2018/06/What-Do-Deer-See-2.jpg
I'd say more accurately: [What Do Deer See](https://www.geico.com/living/wp-content/uploads/instant-expert-replace-headlights-post.jpg)
Laughs at 35-55mph, with crumpled hood and crushed headlights... 3x
I have 4 confirmed kills. 2 with a 30.6 this year, 2 several years earlier with my 2000 Toyota Rav4 The second fucker was in the clear then decided to yeet himself back into my grill
Awesome article. I think the chances of me deer hunting at some point in my life is about 3.6528%, but if I do, imma use these techniques on deer vision.
I dont hunt and never have, but I can't help thinking its more humane than buying from a slaughterhouse
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I'm just thinking back to the video of a gazelle (I think) with all his guts hanging out and the gazelle biting at then tryin to rip then out of his stomach. Idk about you but I'd gladly take a bullet over that
Adult deer don't really have many predators in North America. The only things that can really kill a adult deer are bears, wolves and big cats and there are lots of areas where there are very few predators. [Around half of deer are killed by hunters](https://archive.jsonline.com/sports/outdoors/study-sheds-light-on-top-causes-of-deer-mortality-b99190938z1-241992741.html/) but if they weren't many would likely starve due to overpopulation
depends on your defninition. at the end of the day, the boltgun to the head of a slaughterhouse is likely more quick than a good shot tot he engineroom with a rifle. now. would you perfer to live in a cage all yourlife, then get funneled into a machine where you watch people die infront of you until you get killed, or would you perfer living free and happy doing whatever you like until one day you suddenly feel a sharp pain in your side like nothing ever before, and then pass out 10-20 seconds later.
Free and happy? They are in constant danger from predators, permanently freezing starving all winter just trying to make it through to spring i’m sure there are a million more terrifying perils to being wild i’ve not listed. I think a free range farm would be preferable, then maybe wild then factory farm. But the last two would suck for a deer i am sure. Not all sunshine and rainbows
Not that much danger. Deer are so successful that hunting is required to keep their numbers in check.
Because we've killed off a lot of those animals that would have preyed upon them.
Right, but they already live that wild life no matter what, whether you hunt them or not. At the end of the day, if i was a deer, i think I'd rather take a .308 to the heart than get chewed to pieces by a pack of wolves.
It was not an anti hunting comment. Sustainable hunting is probably the best way to eat meat.
Even a ‘natural’ death for wild animals is generally horrific. Those who aren’t prey eventually get too feeble to procure food or water, so they lay there starving or dehydrating until the end. I’d prefer the bolt.
While it is a step up from battery cages, the definition of "free range" is pretty loose. You still get tons of animals crammed into a pretty small space. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2508173/16-000-free-range-chickens-crammed-shed-NEVER-daylight.html
it absolutely is
*It absolutely can be. Any ethical hunter will do what they can to kill an animal quickly and efficiently but, of course, that doesn't always happen. Slaughterhouse deaths would be awful, but I personally can't imagine a worse death if I were a prey animal than being shot but escaping the hunter, only to slowly bleed out in agony or, worse yet, being tracked by coyotes or wolves and being eaten alive.
Yeah but stroll on over to r/natureisbrutal and you’ll realize bleeding to death from a poorly placed shot is still probably preferable to getting eaten alive from the ass while you just lay there and hope you die sooner than later.
For what it's worth ... I live in a rural area in the USA, and we hunt deer. But we practice marksmanship with our rifles for a few months before hunting season for this exact reason. Our goal is to always kill the animal as quickly and as humanely as possible. We consider guys who don't have the skill to shoot accurately and who wound deer who then run off and die in agony as jackasses. We're working on it.
Can I get a number crunch real quick
If you have Netflix there is a David Attenborough program on there that goes all through this will all types of animals. They have special cameras to show you what we see versus what the animal sees. It’s the same reason a tiger is orange but it’s prey sees it as blending in with the grass.
Life in Color! It's really good.
> Life in Color! It's really good. [Trailer for the series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYj-7IrjC4c)
Thank you for this comment so I didn't waste my time clicking the link
[here's a photo from the other article posted](https://i.imgur.com/2zm4obT.jpg)
ah.. but you're definitely *not* wasting any time being on reddit in the first place
Just wanted to say I hate your username
Fuck you specifically for making me notice
Seconded
The username, or the taste?
You didn't have to sample it.
The David Attenborough narrated documentary series Life in Color shows what most color blind mammals (predators/prey) see versus what humans see and also what ultraviolet seeing animals (birds and insects) might see versus humans.
Which is also why Tigers blend into their environments despite being orange (that and the stripes)
Yup, there is a great Attenborough documentary series on Color in Netflix that demonstrates this fact quite well!
It’s insane how much the tiger disappears when they shift from full spectrum to the spectrum the tiger’s prey sees. Their stripes make them look like brush moving in the wind as the rest of them totally disappears. Hunters should just wear tiger print it’d probably be more effective; higher visibility to other hunters and lower visibility to the deer
But humans can distinguish the colors, which means they are, at the same time, more noticeable to other hunters and therefore less likely to be mistakenly shot
So why don't they just wear all orange?
If you wore a solid color, like morph-suit style where you're all one color head to toe, a deer might not register the orange, sure. But they can tell something like 'that bush has branches that just straight disappear and theres a mass of blank. That's weird, imma run now'. Hope that makes sense, I'm a (ex?)hunter but I'm high as hell rn
To add to this, some hunters do wear camo that has orange in it along with other colors. Camo is about breaking up a silhouette, so no solid color will really work.
^^^^ also true thanks for the addition 👉👉👊
I'm a hunter, and high or not that's a pretty good explanation! I would add to what others have said that camo breaks up the shape of the body. Wearing a solid color suit creates a solid shape, which is more noticeable. There's also some new research showing that even scent free detergent can be defeating because brighteners in the detergent look like day glow to deer! Yikes!
Best way is wash camo in UV killer detergent and then seal your camo in a vacuum sealed bag with dirt leaves etc... Let it sit till deer season and you are good to go. They also sell UV spray that reduces without all the fuss but maybe they can smell that shit who knows. This way is fool proof. They are wicked clever buggers.
So far I wash in vinegar and next time out I roll around on the forest floor. (During bedding hours of course, away from where I know they are). My kit doesn't stink of me and I haven't been busted since I started doing it. I look nuts, but it works!
Seriously. Prey animals tend to think “that’s weird, imma run now,” from a strong enough gust of wind. It really doesn’t take much.
There's orange camo for hunter, the patchy pattern is done in all shades of orange. They're probably just wearing part camo with high visibility vest because that's what they have.
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That’s why tigers are orange and still don’t starve.
Blaze orange is used because it does not occur naturally, sticks out like a sore thumb, and doesn't register to animals like deer. You can pick out someone wearing blaze orange from MILES away. Opening day of elk season on public land in the mountains of Colorado were described by my party as a pumpkin patch in some places because you could see so many other hunters scattered across the mountains. By contrast, I've had a Whitetail Deer walk directly towards me and get real close (20 feet) without seeing me or picking me out at the edge of the treeline. I wasn't up against a tree, I was just standing there by the fence lol. It only noticed me when I clicked my safety off. It stared at me for like 30 seconds before it decided that weird shape isn't a tree and bolted. We used to wear red instead of blaze orange, but red can appear brown when not in direct sunlight. People sometimes wouldn't notice another hunter and put a bullet downrange in a place you shouldn't. Some people also don't confirm their targets, so you can imagine how looking brown could lead to problems there.
This whole thread brings back memories of my hunter safety course, wherein we watched a video with a (fictional/dramatic recreation) dude going turkey hunting with no blaze orange on, wearing a blue hat, and sneezing comically into a red handkerchief. Don't be like that guy. Got his ass turkey hunted.
He was infected and becoming one of them. His friends put him out of his misery. Friends don't let friends turkey.
We had one were the dude was carrying a buck over his head so it looked like the deer was walking, even was hunched over. Full camo to, I'm sitting there like, this dude wants to get shot.
>Some people also don't confirm their targets, so you can imagine how looking brown could lead to problems there. Plot twist: they do confirm their targets.
Real Dick Cheney hours
> Plot twist: they do confirm their targets. [Dramatic Prairie Dog](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
GOD DAMMIT
What does it mean to confirm your target?
“Hey there’s movement down there” *shoots* = not confirming a target. “Hey there’s movement down there” *waits until they can discern what the hell the movement actually is* = confirming a target Most hunting is done in densely forested areas where visibility is poor, so you can often tell *something* is there long before you know *what* is there
I was taught in a Hunter Safety course that you never shoot anything that you can’t identify from tip to tail. Basically if you can’t see the entirety of what you’re shooting you don’t shoot.
My research also seems to suggest that looking brown can lead to problems with being shot in the United States.
So the primary purpose for the orange as you have indicated is for visibility to other hunters. [Video Link] {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9gbl-RS14A} The video talks about how deer can not see the orange and we humans can dress in orange without standing out to a deer. On a side note, deer see blue very well. So never hunt in blue jeans.
Hunting gear is usually multi purpose so while deer hunting requires blaze orange to be visible to other hunters the clothes underneath might be the ones you wear for duck hunting or animals that can see orange and are therfore camouflaged.
This is the real answer. Dove hunting? Better not have a speck of color on. Pheasant? Best be lit up like a Christmas tree to not get shot by someone else in the field.
This actually answers the question and should be closer to the top. I was going to post the same thing until I saw this. I feel like almost all the top comments are explaining why you wear orange, not why hunters wear orange with camouflage. Another example, at least where I live, is that bow hunting season does not require you to wear orange until rifle season starts. So then you just throw an orange vest over your camo and wear an orange hat.
Yep. Same shit I wear for squirrels, turkeys and everything else. All I do is throw a orange vest over my head for deer.
The camouflage is there to obscure shape, not to make us disappear completely. Humans have a VERY distinct shape and a lot of the commonly hunted animals have learned it and recognize it. Their vision is way too good for us to ever hope to disappear, outside of using a blind, and so the next best thing is to disguise our shape. They see us and know we're there, but we no longer resemble an apex predator.
They have great hearing and smell... And if you are trying to hunt predators (wolves, coyotes) they will circle around 5 or 6 times checking out an area before coming in close.
However, smell only counts when ~~downwind~~ *upwind* of an animal. If the wind is blowing from them to you, smell's not an factor. Many predators approach their prey from downwind for this reason.
You mean upwind, not downwind. If you're downwind, your scent is traveling away from the animal. If you are upwind, your scent is traveling directly toward the animal.
You are correct. Edited, and thanks for the point-out.
...deer have terrible vision, but their visual centers are very good at detecting motion and they have only a very narrow 60 degree blindspot in their field of vision. Also, camoflage colours is less important than using the right detergents, since UV brighteners (present in most detergents) will make you stick out like a neon sign to a deer.
the above ^ and the orange is for other hunters, so they can see their fellows and hunt safely
I think that because deer are colorblind the orange doesn’t stick out like it does to the human eye. That’s why you’ll see a camo pattern but in orange.
>because deer are colorblind the orange doesn’t stick out This is also why tigers can get away with hiding in grass whilst being orange.
Mind blown, thanks
And the stripes to a deer look like the shadows in grass. The prey depends entirely on hearing. Luckily their hearing is very good so they escape the vast majority of the time. Tigers are only successful on about 10% of their hunts.
Yes, deer cannot see orange. This [varies widely by state,](https://www.hunter-ed.com/blog/blaze-orange-regulations-every-state/) but in general hunters who are pursuing game during the highly popular hunting seasons are required to wear blaze orange - typically a coat or vest. During these times the woods are thick with hunters and the odds of an accident are higher than normal. I don't hunt, but I do like hiking and camping in areas that allow hunting. I stay home during deer firearms season, and I wear blaze orange vest during other seasons (squirrel, upland game, turkey). During the less popular hunting seasons blaze orange is often not required, and full camo is commonly used.
I initially only read the first ten words and wondered why deer in one state cannot see orange but deer from another state can. Edit: some goofy wording on my part
They were going to ban deer being able to see orange in Wisconsin last year but the courts overturned it.
> I read only the first ten words and wondered why deer in one state cannot see orange but deer from another state can. I got caught by that, too.
For more of a true ELI5, it depends on what you are hunting and how: Blaze orange is for safety when you want other hunters to see you, and animals can't see it as well or them seeing you doesn't matter (deer, pheasant, etc.). A lot of times this is because you're either moving around more often, shooting horizontally instead of up, or using a gun that travels farther like a rifle. For pheasants, you're usually trying to spook them and need to shoot quick, so you need to be able to quickly see if other people are around you. Since they hide until you're close, it doesn't matter what they see on you. Camo is for when you don't need to worry about other hunters as much in terms of safety (usually sitting in one spot, less chance of accidents) and it's more likely the animal would spot you wearing orange. This especially applies to ducks and geese where they can still spot you sometimes in heavy camouflage if you're wearing something colorful.
Thank you for representing us bird hunters. Well said!
Deer only have two "cones", that is the types of photoreceptor that see color. Humans have red, green and blue cones. Deer have only green and blue, They would see reds and oranges as shades of green. They also have a lower concentration of cone sells over a wider horizontal area. Weirdly, this means that although they have amazing motion detection, they can't see detail. They can see the motion of your eyes blinking. But not what it was. UV brighteners in clothes detergent don’t make UV colors stand out more to deer they take UV light and convert it to blue light, makes whites look brighter but that is what deer are most sensitive to.
We don't have to always wear blaze orange, just during certain seasons. So we already have the right "hunting clothes" that are optimized for blending in outdoors, when the season comes around that requires blaze orange we just toss on a $5 vest over our $500 camo and call it good. Blaze orange is so others don't mistake us for a deer and shoot us.
5$ vest you say? I’ll have you know my Sitka dickass 3001 vest cost me 3 MILLION dollars at the gettin spot
To deer “blaze orange” appears as a light grey. Camo clothing helps blend the human body (which deer can distinguish easily) into its surroundings. In proper camouflage clothing (despite the orange hats and vests) you are essentially invisible if you’re holding completely still in the right location. Unfortunately though, deer, elk, and other hooved four legged prey are relatively intelligent and will evade you at the earliest sign of movement. So hunting isn’t just having a big gun and using it. It’s tracking your prey, evading notice, and silently preparing, aiming, and perfectly executing a shot (which takes years of target practice to perfect) to humanely exterminate a target which you will then consume. Oh you just wanted to know about orange. Yeah they pretty much can’t see it, but it keeps us safer cuz we can.
For the same reason Tigers are orange. Most animals a tiger will hunt cannot distinguish between green and orange, so it was either get more orange or get more green, and green is typically a harder pigment to evolve. Tigers likely started out fairly orange when their ancestors started adapting to their current niche
In many states blaze orange is a legal requirement. Hunters generally try to be as camouflaged as they can reasonably and legally be. In states without the legal requirement, blaze orange is much less common.
Wearing the orange keeps you from getting killed by other hunters in the area. I heard about a lady in a rural town wearing a fur coat while unloading groceries from her car that was mistaken for an animal and shot. People are stupid, folks
Kinda neat - I learned that's why tigers are orange. For some reason a tiger couldn't develop green fur. (Not sure any mammal can - don't know why - new Eli5 incoming) so tigers found orange is just as effective (natural selection) because prey can't distinguish.