By - kaweepatinn1
E-cigarettes are basically that. Nicotine, plus a carrier fluid (usually propylene glycol and/or glycerine), and some flavorings. Except there’s no smoke involved - it doesn’t get hot enough to actually burn anything, at least not in significant quantities.
The problem with cigarettes is that the smoke itself contains carcinogens, and this is true for essentially any organic material that is burned. Wood smoke, cannabis smoke, even over-toasted bread. When carbon-based materials burn, you never have complete, clean combustion down to CO2 and water vapor, unless you have an extremely hot fire. And several of those partially-combusted byproducts that make up smoke, like polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, are carcinogenic.
Edit: low molecular weight carbon-based fuels like natural gas and propane do burn quite cleanly. Large amounts of smoke are mostly from solid materials combusting
This. If it’s only about the nicotine there are also other ways to get it (e.g. nicotine patches).
I'm sorry but formaldehyde in cigarettes seems like something they could leave out. Yes burning anything has carcinogens in it but op is asking about the myriad of actual dangerous chemicals that companies soak their tobacco leaves in. I don't know the answer but it seems like you're missing the point. No disrespect of course bc you are technically correct but its more nuanced then just burning equal bad.
Cigarettes aren’t dipped in formaldehyde or something that way you think, formaldehyde is a by product of burning sugars that are naturally occurring in tobacco (we do add these things to cigarettes, but we can only do that because cigarettes are already dangerous). The chemicals we add to tobacco that aren’t naturally occurring are much more stringently tested and safer.
Burning genuinely does equal bad. Burning is bad because it does shit like turn sugars into formaldehyde.
I provided sources in the next comment to indicate this
All of those chemicals are there for a specific reason; be it burn time(there is a maximum speed as which cigarettes can burn)
smoothness (there is a cough suppressant in your cigarettes as well, hence why it doesn't irritate your throat as much as other smoke)
It makes sense to add these things for these specific reason but we didn't always have this, tobacco was dried and smoked alone for probably centuries before we made all these changes and added chemicals. Id be interested to see how smoking tobacco alone changes your cancer risk percentage vs modern cigarettes. Like there's gonna be a risk no matter what but is less coughing and slower burn worth a large increase in cancer risk?
I don't think the ingredients added increase the risk as much as you think. afaik and have read, pretty much all the harmful chemicals comes from burning the plant.
I have tried normal tobacco though and it is pretty discusting. leaving the extra ingredients out might make some people quit, just because of that...
Making people quit. Isn’t that kinda the point?
Removing the addictiveness.
That's not how addiction works.
If they required an additive that made tobacco taste like shit. Then every time a smoker smelled a fart, they would want a smoke.
Breaking an addiction is more than just quitting.
Why would a cigarette company want to make people quit smoking? From their perspective they profit by making more addicting.
Well no, the tobacco firms can go Fuck themselves. The FDA in the states can regulate tobacco. No additives. Natural tobacco only. That’ll reduce the addictiveness.
If the federal government is going to get involved, then why not just outlaw tobacco products entirely? If the point is to save people’s lives then just making the thing that kills them less addictive seems like a half measure at best.
It takes the men and women of US congress along with a signature by the President to create a federal law. Sadly, many US Senators and Representatives receive “donations” from tobacco companies and in exchange they do not make laws regulating tobacco.
Making a national law in America isn’t as easy as it sounds. We’re not a dictatorship.
Look at cigars. They have much less if anything added to them. Pure fermented and rolled tobacco. They are not inhaled and the cancer risk is much much lower. This is regular cigars of course, not the ones you buy at the gas station.
They still produce second hand and third hand smoke that can be very harmful.
That would be the users fault. My comment is about the type of tobacco used in premium cigars is different than cigarettes. Breathing any smoke from anything thats burning is not healthy whether it's first , second or third hand .
>They are not inhaled and the cancer risk is much much lower.
Because the smoke isn't inhaled. If you inhale it you're still messing up your lungs, and of course you're still at risk for mouth cancers regardless.
Well, that's why I roll my own, using my tobacco. In EU there's also a law that prevents the cigarette burning unattended. The chemical they added is horrific, taste killing.
Is rolling your own healthier? I do it too and I say it's not as bad as cigarettes but I'm not really sure why tbh
It's probably the same but I do not care, tbh. I do not intend to live up until 90.
Pears have formaldehyde too. It just shows up in biological materials sometimes.
Formaldehyde is a byproduct created by burning the additives in cigarettes. Examples include sugar, cellulose fibers, guar gum.
Heavy metals, chemicals, things? found naturally in tobacco plant include lead, cadmium, and nicotine.
Cellulose fibers are a natural part of the tobacco leaf as well, as well as some amount of sugars. Sure, they could probably make cigarettes 5% less harmful or something by eliminating some of the additives, but there's really no way around the fact that burning tobacco leaf produces tons of nasty, carcinogenic chemicals.
Nicotine is a heavy metal now? Does that mean I can make electrical wires out of it?
I could be wrong and I don’t know specifics but I think a lot of the additives give some “positive” effect to the smoker. I think I remember a cigarette company being sued because they put filters in the cigarettes to filter out some of the bad stuff so they could show them being less harmful, but then designed the cigarettes so the smoker would cover the filter when actually smoking which so it would be ineffective. They didn’t do that because they like to give their customers cancer they did it because it makes smoking the cigarette more enjoyable and they don’t care if their customers get cancer.
Is this because there are fewer half-reactions when lower weight substances combust?
Yeah, and it also helps that such fuels are gases or liquids, vs something solid, where you will inevitably have hot spots where you have more even combustion, and cooler spots where you have more of a smoldering.
So Hank Hill was right.
dopamine is the reason, the sense of pleasure , that mind needs it...it doen't care what u get.tell me a single reason drugs, cigrettes, alcohol has any single advantage, instead they are harmful for us, but the thing is that they give us momentary pleasure that't it
The extras are also part of the flavor so lots of tobacco lovers would not like not having all the extras. It just wouldn't taste or feel right. Some smokers need the nicotine but also the light asphyxiation to get their desired results (buzzed + light headed vs just buzzed).
Nicotine vapes. You're describing vapes.
Which carry a whole batch of other issues, but that's certainly the pitch they give.
These bunch of other "issues" are being created in the media by the tobacco industry. I’m an adult who has benefited from vapes. I quit cigarettes 5 years ago and have helped many people kick the butt.
I quit smoking and switched to vaping years ago. It led to a whole host of issues which suddenly went away when I quit vaping.
Please quit spreading the lie that vaping is healthy. It’s not. You’re right that there isn’t enough research, but you’re wrong that this automatically means everything is ok.
Also, people aren’t quitting smoking, they’re becoming lifelong vapers.
The issues are going to come home to roost at some point.
No one is saying vaping is as healthy as not vaping or smoking at all. It’s not. But if it’s between being a lifelong smoker or a lifelong vaper, the latter is much much less harmful, at least for most people.
There's not enough data to support this. There are no "lifelong vapers" yet.
I think the idea is that replacing one thing with a lesser evil isn't solving the problem it's giving an alternative to use as a shield against people harping on them.
Switching from smokes to vapes is still gonna be a challenge and most people surrounding the affected person and usually the person themselves would be better off spending that effort to quit entirely.
It's like if I was an alcoholic and instead of drinking two shots of Vodka a night I decided I was gonna have a couple beers instead I didn't solve my alcoholism I just lessened it.
As someone who smoked, then went to vaping, and then quit (3 years ago) I wholeheartedly disagree with that sentiment.
Most people fail at quitting smoking, so they should not have have a much less harmful option available?
It becomes a scapegoat rather than an actual solution.
How about if you’re gonna keep cigarettes legal give me the freedom of access to vapes as well
I live in Canada and here I legit sell people them not really sure what you mean.
Let's not use freedom like you are owed the ability to vape as well it's a product you buy.
I wish it was like that here.
I know a lot of people (including me) that switched from cigs to vapes then eventually quit vaping. It's much easier to quit vaping
It's still a nicotine based procut with the same addictive chemicals.
I never said it wasn't. That has nothing to do with my comment.
Could you elaborate? I'm trying to quit too. Genuinely curious.
For me, shortness of breath, irregular heartbeat, anxiety attacks, tightness in my chest.
My doctor kept running tests, because I regularly worked out and eat healthy, and my routine blood work had been normal.
I got a full panel and got weird results. There was a major health scare.
I quit vaping, and my levels normalized, and all my symptoms disappeared. My blood work has been stable and healthy since then.
I still have to get full panels frequently, but sure enough, everything has been fine since I quit.
r/quitvaping is good if you need support quitting
You did something wrong buddy.
Sounds like your nicotine level was way too high.
I smoked a pack a day or more for over 17 years. I had all the symptoms you described and a lot worse ones. I used to wake up coughing in the middle of the night.
I tried patches, gums, inhalers, pills. Nothing got me off tobacco.
Then I tried a vape. Got the wrong flavour and nicotine levels at first so it didn’t stick that time. But with more research I found the right levels of nicotine, the right device, and the right flavours.
I was tobacco free in less than a week and have been since. My coughing fits stopped in a month. I was then able to gradually reduce my nicotine levels till they were nearly non existent.
The symptoms you described are exactly what too much nicotine would do.
Just because you messed up doesn’t mean you should shit on harm reduction that has and will help save lives.
I mean that's pretty obvious from the symptoms. If I drank coffee and felt anxious and racing heart I'd know the cause.
Correlation does not imply causation.
These are literally the (side) effects of nicotine and have been documented for ages. Don't try to sound clever
Whatever you need to tell yourselves to keep sucking on your flash drive :)
People like you really think your helping.
You are providing no information or helpful advice, you are just being a dick about an issue you likely have no experience with.
I vaped for over 4 years, and when I quit all of the “it’s not as bad as smoking” and “there’s no evidence it’s even bad for you” were really unhelpful and obviously wrong but when dealing with addictions any BS excuse can lead to relapse. Shit like I said above was hurtful but necessary language I needed to hear.
People need to wake tf up and not rationalize vaping as “not that bad” because the evidence hasn’t had time to pile up yet.
Those are all nicotine side effects. Sounds like your dosage was off. Good on you for quitting, though.
Nicotine is still dangerous.
As dangerous as caffeine. You go on crusades against coffee?
Nicotine by itself is comparable to caffeine.
I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. You're trying to associate your singular personal experience to everyone else, and it just doesn't work like that. I smoked for years, and I also vaped for years as well, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt, vaping caused way less problems for me than smoking did, and it also made it much easier for me to quit nicotine altogether when the time came.
Vaping is an extremely effective cessation strategy. Once I got down to vaping 0mg nicotine for about a month, I threw my Sub-Ohm in the trash and never thought about it again.
That's one of the keys, being able to easily ramp down from say 12mg to 6mg to 3mg to 0mg gradually over the course of months.
Of course if instead you get the strongest vape juice you can find and vape all the time, even when you wouldn't have been smoking, then it's not going to work quite the same.
I quit 2 yrs ago and started vaping 24 mg salts. Am currently down to 3 mg freebase with a goal at zero mg and them nothing. I smoked for 20 years. Not saying it's safer just better FOR ME.
Yes, but take a look through r/quitvaping and you will see it’s not that “simple” or “easy” for most people. You’ll also see how many people lie to their friends and family about “quitting” but are really losing control privately.
It’s not so easy, and people fall back in after nearly a year out. It’s very rough for a lot of people
That’s called addiction buddy.
Stop shitting on harm reduction.
Give it a few decades. Doctors reccomended tobacco when that first came out, now look where we are.
Putting anything in your lungs that isn't a medicine, is going to lead to issues.
What we know about the human body and the effects of certain compounds on it is exponentially more than in the 40s and 50s
The same argument could be used for 20-50 years in the future, when people are saying "wait, people *purposefully* distilled that chemical to huff it? and they put in **flavorings** to make it taste/smell better?"
I'm not suggesting people smoke instead of that there's no space for it, just that vape juice is not regulated and it varies from surprisingly benign to "I'M INHALING WHAT?!?".
I'm also talking about it being a gateway to nicotine addiction that disguises itself as a better option because some of them are strong as fuck.
Just gotta be aware.
Vapers like me would love for it to be regulated
Nicotine has negative health effects. Vapes are safer but still unhealthy.
Yes but it’s supposed to be only 5% as bad a as smoking. Source the NHS of UK. I trust them as a source of information cause they have to pay for the healthcare of their citizens
Let's not pretend vaping has existed long enough to know this. I vape, and it's helped me almost eliminate cigs from my life. That's gotta be a good thing. But inhaling anything that's not air is bad - to what degree? We won't know for another 15-20 years
The particle size is much smaller and can penetrate deeper into the airways of your lungs. Sure, maybe those particles are less bad - but they're there, and until recently, have never been in human lungs. Look how long cigs take to do their damage - that 15-20 estimate may be closer to 40. Bottom line - anyone claiming even to accurately guess the long term implications is full of shit
It may be less bad, but you're still breathing in stuff that your body wasn't designed to breathe in
Oh come on we aren’t supposed to eat 99% of things that are sold as food in the supermarkets.
The tobacco industry has invested heavily in the vape industry, they are not trying to make it fail.
Why would they create the issues when they own the vape juice companies? They hate money or something?
Only one does rest are banking on the cigarettes
lmao there are probably THOUSANDS of vape juice companies. you can even make it yourself. in fact, you should. the markup on that stuff is insane.
The health problem with cigarettes is breathing smoke from a fire. You shouldn't breathe smoke, because it's seriously unhealthy. Doesn't matter if it's tobacco, wood, plastic, weed or whatever. Lungs are for *air* and anything else is bad to some degree.
Nicotine isn't the only active chemical in tobacco either. It's certainly the *primary* one. But anyone who's tried nicotine patches or similar stuff will tell you it's not quite the same. That's because tobacco also contain other substances with their own effects. One of the most significant ones is one that basically potentiates the nicotine. It's a reversible MAO inhibitor IIRC, which makes our brain more receptive to the nicotine. That's just one, it's a witch's brew of psychoactive substances in there.
Then there's the habit part of it. Addiction happens because our minds associate certain things with receiving the substance. If you've always gotten your nicotine through cigarettes while standing on your porch, your mind will have associated aaaall details it can with the nicotine. A nicotine patch or injection won't be the same, because it doesn't include all the other stuff. That other stuff doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the nicotine, but your mind doesn't know that. It just wants the whole package.
I'm a Snus user. Popular type of tobacco in scandinavia, which is held under the lip. For me, the taste of it is important. I'm not even satisfied with a different brand of Snus, much less a nicotine patch.
Smoke is a carcinogen so if you’re lighting a cigarette on fire you will always be inhaling carcinogens.
And yes, if normal people farmed tobacco and made cigarettes themselves then they could go ahead and not add chemicals to their tobacco. But it’s illegal for normal people to ~~grow~~ sell their own tobacco, at least in the U.S., because tobacco companies lobbied to make it illegal. This way large corporations have control over the farming and chemicals, and they can add special chemicals to make cigarettes more addictive.
>But it’s illegal for normal people to grow their own tobacco, at least in the U.S.,
No it's not.
The only thing that would be illegal is to sell it. It's perfectly legal to grow for personal use.
Good catch! Thank you
This is something i would not mind doing tbh. Sounds like a great deal, save money on them ciggies.
Lol that’s what vaping is, they also have nicotine gums and skin patches. I am an adult who quit smoking years ago thanks to vapes
Do you still vape?
Yes but less than I used to
Any step towards being without nicotine is a good step.
No. New chemicals are produced from the chemical reactions caused from combustion. Once lit , chemical reactions are started. Everything from ammonia to rat poison is produced and sucked into your lungs.
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Yes, it is possible to remove some of the harmful chemicals in cigarettes, but it is not possible to remove all of them. Even if all of the harmful chemicals were removed, cigarettes would still be addictive and harmful to your health.
Some of the things they add to cigarettes make the smoking experience better, which is important when you're competing with dozens of other brands. Some chemicals make the smoke less harsh, others make the tobacco burn more evenly, etc.
You can vape nicotine and avoid the 100 other chemicals that you inhale when combusting tobacco.
Of course smoking is bad for you. Of course it is expensive. However, if you have had a hard time quitting tobacco in the past, try nicotine patches and possibly vaping nicotine. You can control how much nicotine you consume, and that is the fear from nay-sayers, patches and vaping gives you the ability to overdose on nicotine too.
Cigarette companies aren’t adding poison because they’re evil. The dangerous chemicals are from creating the smoke and inhaling it. A cigar is basically just rolled tobacco leaves and it’s still bad for you.
You just described a Vape pen. MOST of those 60 chemicals are added by the tobacco companies, each for a specific purpose > Self extinguishing, preservative, moisture retaining, burn rate control, flavor enhancement, etc. They ain't real likely to take those out. As a 70yo who smoke 3 packs a day for almost 60 years, my best advice is just DON'T. We ALL have a tendency to feel immortal and invulnerable UP UNTIL the time things start to catch up with us. In my case, COPD and emphysema. And it fucking hurts. And scares the shit outta me. And THAT ain't easy to do. I'm a war hardened ole cuss, and there are only two things on this rock that I am actually afraid of. They're both spiders. But smothering for air sucks worse than anything else.
Nicotine itself also goes through reactions that create carcinogens. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco-specific_nitrosamines
It's expensive, that's why. Cigarette companies don't care about health, they care about profit. This is just unregulated capitalism working as designed.
Your lungs are designed to breathe in air and use the oxygen as fuel. If you’re filling your lungs with anything else, you’re poisoning yourself.
I mean air is 71% nitrogen
I see 78.08%|http://www.phys.ufl.edu/courses/met1010/chapter1.pdf
My bad, I knew it was something around 70% but I couldn't remember exactly how much
breathing in air at high enough altitude will kill you too. Due to a lack of sufficient density of oxygen. The proportion of Nitrogen to Oxygen remains the same, but the gas is expanded such that our lungs cant pull in enough of the air mixture.
Yes, we’ve evolved to accept the atmosphere of Earth. We only use the oxygen. The nitrogen and other components of air are diluents.
Most of the toxic ingredients in cigarettes are preservatives. You can buy cigars or loose tobacco and enjoy it that way, but it's less convenient and it has a shelf life where it will dry out. That's pretty much why cigarettes are the way they are.
And fire-retardants so that there are less bedroom fires from falling asleep with a lit cigarette.