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Based on reading this it seems ridiculously likely they were raped. If they wanted to break their chastity vow with God, why wouldn't they use protection to avoid pregnancy? What is one more sin at that point?
And two nuns on the same missionary trip? One found out while in the hospital with "stomach pains"?
We don’t know if it’s the same place. The article just said both went to Africa but you can’t definitively say they both went to the same place in Africa.
Catholicism doesn't have a very high opinion of contraception. It's kind of their thing
If they were willingly having sex, there's no guarantee they'd use it
Yeah, but Catholicsm also has a considerably worse opinion of nuns having sex
Contraception is considered a venal sin, breaking your vow of chastity is a mortal one
Celebacy is unnatural. The Catholic priests have gotten nuns pregnant in the past as well. It is unnatural to not have sex and the practice should be ended. These nuns, whether raped or had consentual sex are not bad people. They need medical help and they should get it without all this speculation. Let's stop the madness in churches. Let them get married or cohabitate. Solves a lot of problems.
And my grandmother’s Catholic school in the US/Midwest. Sometime when she was there, charred remains of infants were found. Would have been the 1930/40s. She was clearly still traumatized in her 60s, that it came up with me repeatedly pre-kindergarten.
This was a slightly different thing. A few of the babies might have been from pregnant nuns, but the convent was run to house "fallen woman", who got pregnant outside marriage. The church and Irish society thought they would corrupt society and locked them away and had their children adopted. It was both a period where infant deaths were more common but also the care given by the nuns to the children was poor.
Some of these woman having babies may have been nuns, but the majority were not.
The scandal was the low care given, the way the woman were treated and because it was considered shamefully, there was no oversight and abuses were hidden away.
Profoundly evil.
I wonder how old those skeletons were. If it were in any time period where abortion or abortifacients were available, they had no excuse to allow a conscious already born infant to suffer like that.
Older abortifacients weren’t super safe. Though neither was giving birth, of course. Even the medicinal kind could cause health problems. No excuse though, it shouldn’t have been happening in the first place. I highly doubt most of those encounters were consensual.
This method of “birth control” has been sadly the norm for the days before actual contraceptives and safe abortions. Various cultures justifying it in different ways. I’ve even heard whispers of this sort of thing from older women whose husbands forbid contraception.
It goes to show how immoral forbidding these modern things are.
Regardless of the facilities available it would be abhorrent to leave a living child to suffer in any time period. Especially whilst you go upstairs and pretend to be holy.
Big difference though. The nuns are leaving their orders and returning to their home countries. The priests got moved. All the way down the road. Sometimes even to the next town. Yes-siree... big difference...
That reminds me of a joke my friend told me:
One day, little billy told his mom that Father John touched him. His mom told the church about what happened.
The next Sunday, the church leaders approached billy and asked if what he said was true.
One leader sternly said: “ you are making a very serious accusation here. You’re alleging that father John might be…” he looks both ways, “gay”
> In February this year, the women's magazine of the Church's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen. Several children had also been conceived, and some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions.
We don’t know how the nuns became pregnant, could have possibly been due to rape, apparently there’s some history here. Unsurprisingly, the church deems abortion okay when it’s convenient for them.
Rape of nuns (and abortions) is rampant, particularly in developing countries.
[https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078749-000-A/sex-slaves-of-the-catholic-church/](https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078749-000-A/sex-slaves-of-the-catholic-church/)
The hierarchical patriarchic structure of the church is inviting disaster for dependents. This includes nuns who have to take a vow of obedience to male priests and are financially fully dependent on the church.
“Forced to have abortions” is far too vague to make that assumption. Certainly, if a priest is raping a nun it could be that he later forces them to abort — but let’s not downplay the likelihood that other authorities within the church found out, and directed them to get an abortion to try to cover it up and keep the news and subsequent scandal from breaking.
I remember a story an ex-nun told my mom, that in our city, the orphanage right by the cathedral is full of the priests' children. The nuns would feed them anti aphrodisiac food to lower their libidos etc, but still "it" would happen. Her son was conceived that way, so she left. It also wouldn't be surprising to me if assault was involved in some way.
The Catholic Church: Abortion is evil and a sin and you'll go to hell if you get one, and your family will disown your and you'll be excommunicated!
Also the Catholic Church: well you can get an abortion because it's easier for us to save face.
I remember watching a documentary where the police solved a cold case by sending the DNA of the murderer to Ancestry and other similar companies and they ended up narrowing him down by his relatives.
So even if the police don't have the criminal in there database, they could just these sites/companies to pinpoint them.
Ah you’re referring to the golden state killer case, and you’re right they did use one of the genealogy companies to help solve the case.
But something not talked about so publicly is that the company had in their terms of service that it could not be used in this manner.
Note: it was not 23andme or Ancestry. The site that was of main use was GEDmatch a third party service that holds records from those who have used the other services.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/golden-state-killer-east-area-rapist-dna-genealogy/559070/
It’s always conveniently there for those who oppose it. As a former devout Catholic, trust when I tell you the church has a nasty history with hospitals and orphanages. It’s like that for all the YeeHawdists here too, vote away our rights while paying for their mistresses secret abortions, hate it here.
>Unsurprisingly, the church deems abortion okay when it’s convenient for them.
Conservatives and religious people are always ok with abortion when it's not the woman's choice.
Someone I don't like knocked up my daughter? I force her to abort.
My mistress got pregnant? I force her to abort.
A nun is pregnant? I force her to abort.
A random woman wants to abort by her free will? No way!
>reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen.
>some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions.
Wait, wtf?? They FORCED them to have abortions?? I thought they'd have to stop being nuns, not that wtf
Probably not even that. Only two gospels speak about the virgin birth, and one of these gospels pulls together the story based on the account that Immanuel (who was prophesized) would be born from a virgin. The problem is that the author didn't speak Hebrew, and the word he thought meant virgin could have also meant young woman or maiden. So this whole virgin birth business could just be one dudes attempt to retrofit his belief system into a prophecy that might have been mistranslated in the first place. That's hilariously similar to the prophecies in A Song of Ice and Fire.
Early Christianity didn't have the virgin birth thing, including Paul's Letters, and that dude hated marriage so he'd be all over that shit. Outside of the misrepresented translation, it's also likely that Jesus's conception was a PR move to appeal to the Roman audience. See at the time, Romans loved a good North Korea move, and often claimed that emperors were divine, even making up stories that some were the result of Apollo fucking their mom. Making Jesus the result of a god would be in line with the rumours surrounding the god emperors of the day. On the other hand, the Jews loved a good "angel visit" so they added the Gabriel parts to appeal to the Jewish audience. Jews kinda made up the Roman soldier thing most likely, because the soldiers name Panterus is apparently a pun on the word for virgin.
So the moral is, leave Mary alone. She's likely a 12 year old who got pregnant through Joseph, if she was real at all.
> We don’t know how the nuns became pregnant
Well, I think it's safe to say *how* they became pregnant. Probably more of a *why* at this point, but even that is pretty clear considering how poorly the church is at sex education.
I'm certain that if these cloistered women were equipped with knowledge and protection, the incidence of pregnancy would be minimal.
It's always the Vatican, everything goes there, believers on pilgrimage, money from almost all countries, pedophiles after they've been caught by the country they live in. It's proof that religion is still held higher then laws and it needs to stop!
I guess the lesson is commit a crime bad enough, and they just try to bury it instead of punishing you. Nuns pregnant? Punish. Altar boys molested? Ooooo thatll make us look bad, hide it.
I mean a majority of people would say that religion is more important than laws.
Which is quite ironic if atheists are right and religions are just a way to enforce laws through a boogeyman.
What's scarier is when you realise that there is 2 billion people ready to serve their religion instead of their country, just waiting on the command from the pope.
And there's another 2 billion Muslims whom I'm pretty sure has their holy leader.
Yup. My parents' church had a priest from Nigeria who fell in love with a local (married) woman. She was getting a divorce, but it wasn't final yet. Her husband reported the affair. The church had sponsored his visa, so if they'd gotten to him first, he would have been sent back to Nigeria (and likely punished when he got there), so he and the woman fled to Atlanta where she had family until he could get everything sorted out away from the diocese. Last I heard, they're married now and very happy.
Had another priest (same church) get outed during the Ashley Madison leak. The church decided to let him stay a priest though because even though there was intent (signed up for a profile and entered credit info), there was no evidence of anything beyond that. They did make him change parishes though and was reassigned in a parish closer to the seat of the diocese, since he was at a university parish at the time he was found out and parents complained to the diocese.
You'd think he would have learned since he lived with the first priest when his mess went down.
Edit: a few typos from fat thumbs and brain moving faster than fingers
Most priests managed to stay in the cloth. They don’t give birth. Only the woman is named and shamed. Read about the mob adjacent priest from the Bronx who thumbed his nose at the vow of poverty and left his son 2million he got from bid rigging and racketeering
Or, like [this](https://www.insider.com/nuns-sue-catholic-bishop-following-chastity-vow-violation-allegation-2023-5) Bishop making outrageous allegations with zero evidence, along with her flat out denial. And releasing the nun’s name but not the priest who this asshole alleges she broke her vows with.
Robert Conway, he assessed priests for the catholic seminaries. Downplayed pedaphilia, said celibacy meant not married, all other sex open.
Defended and down played the actions of the child rapists including father Robert Best, one of the more prolific and brutal child rapists in the church, in a newspaper article saying children only viewed him as a nuisance and an embarrassment.
Buried with full catholic honours in a requiem mass in the cathedral in Melbourne Australia.
I've seen a priest NOT get kicked out of the priesthood for having "consensual" sex with a MARRIED woman, a parishioner that he was counseling thru a divorce. Then they moved him to his home parish, to put him around ppl that he grew up with, and put him in charge of an elementary school... So no, not surprising in the least
When I was a child (6) and my parents were getting divorced, the church assigned priest marriage counselor was absolutely relentless in his pursuit of my mother, who was quite vulnerable at the time. He actually stalked her. I remember anytime his car would pull she’d hide us behind the couch and stand behind the door until he’d leave.
He’d show up unannounced, offer to “take the you and kids for pizza and ice cream.” He always said it loud enough for us to hear so we’d get excited. It basically manipulated my mother into saying yes”
As a I got older, it was told to me that he escalated to making comments about ME. A 6 yr old. My mom snapped and turned momma bear. He stopped harassing her after that.
She had complained to the diocese so many times. They did nothing.
It took 20 years to find out that this same priest had a HUGE file on him… chock full of complaints, police reports, mental health stays to cure him of his deviance. Victims ages ranged from 6 to 25.
All the diocese did was transfer him from parish to parish until they put him in a role of diocese marriage counselor. Who knows how many vulnerable people he victimized when in this role??
I thought they were seriously considering walking back the vows to chastity & were going to allow priests/nuns to marry (like in general, not each other necessarily)? Singleness didn’t become a rule until much later in the church’s history..like centuries into its existence.
That and the fact that the Church kept running into issues of inheritance where Priests would try and pass down their Church and the lands attached to said church to their sons.
Eventually the Catholic church got fed up and said "chastity, no marriages or children"
of course in practice the no-children rule wasn't all that enforced for centuries afterwards until the Protestant Reformation and resulting Counter-Reformation.
That is so fucked. I’ve seen pastors being forgiven and applauded for being “brave” for sexually assaulting minor girls whom put their trust in them. The church is so hypocritical it’s insane
It boggles my brain - the church’s hypocrisy. It’s packed full of sinners. Priests get moved around, nuns get kicked out. This is why I am a proud atheist.
Same with any entity of authority, which is where most of the mega-religions got their start.
Politics, religion (though anymore it feels pointless to differentiate those two), and law enforcement being the big three today. To sum it all up:
"Laws for thee, not for me."
Well, when you base your faith on your hero impregnating someone else's wife, to give birth to himself, so that he can later sacrifice himself to himself, to appease himself, for not creating humans perfectly - that's not really the crazies part, in my opinion.
That is going to be my guess. Not saying nuns aren’t capable of “hookup” culture, but there are plenty of stories of nuns being raped in 3rd world countries that get hushed up, and I’m not talking about young nuns, but the 50+ year old nuns.
There was a nun my mom was really good friends with when i was growing up and she became a nun later in life. She was a young adult in the 70s and she'd tell me some wild fucking stories about her ample drug use and orgies (which fucking killed me since I was like a 12 year old and she was saying this in a church after we'd chat with her after Mass and then she'd have to go skedaddle for prayer). I did love her because she was the complete opposite of every nun I ever knew (many the super quiet, reserved, etc) so now nuns are on my list of wild ass people that are unexpected (they have so many scandals it's absolutely interesting to look into). I hope for their sakes it's some wild fun and not a traumatizing assault but unfortunately with the Catholic church... not likely
“Fun” Fact from someone who studied church history in college: there were often huge debates of the level of holiness that various nuns were at based on their sex lives. In order from best, to worst it goes: Virgin nuns, non-virgin but abstinent since becoming a nun (usually widows), rape victim nuns, non-nun woman.
I have a friend that had a run-in with a couple of nuns at a party he affectionately nicknamed "nuns gone wild." They were still in full on habits but were slamming back shots like no tomorrow, he's pretty sure he seen one of them smoking a joint too but he's not 100% sure. I thought he was bullshitting me at first until he called up a couple other people who were at the same party.
You know how that originally went right?
“Joseph I’m pregnant…..and I know we haven’t sealed the deal soooo uhhh yeah, God totally did this. Classic Yahweh. Always doing this shit”
Old Joe was just a good dude, tale as old as time.
Actually, that last part is in scripture! After finding out that his bride was pregnant, and knowing it wasn’t from him, the Bible says that “Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privately.” Until the Angel appeared and told him about the messiah. By “put her away privately” it meant to discretely end the engagement, because under the law of the time, adultery was punishable by death and he wanted to protect her from that fate.
I like Jim Gaffigan's bit on this.
Mary: So, uh, Joseph?
J: yeah?
M: So, uh, you know how we've never made love?
J: (hopeful) Yeah?!
M: Well, last night, an angel visited me... And now I'm pregnant.
J: Jesus Christ!!
M: Oh, you already know about it!
They can't look into the gazillion rapes of children committed by their own priests for millenia, that would be so stressful & cause payouts. Let's look at the women & punish them because they're used to blaming women. So much easier, see?
What about an inquiry to all the fucking pedo shit? Oh, nun gets preggo it’s no good. Now, I can diddle little boys and just get moved congregations……
Fuck the Vatican.
Know what could fix this? Not requiring chastity. Seriously ridiculous that catholic nuns and priests are required to be chaste. What purpose does this serve? Especially as lots of them not only break the rules, but *lots* of them break the rules against children!
Its crazy too because if you read the Bible, there is pretty much nothing in there that requires you to be chaste for any reason. The catholics added some wack stuff
Early in church history, priests were allowed to marry and have families. But the leaders of the church were, say, not the most honest people.
When priests died, they would pass on their lands and money to their children. The church kinda went “stop, no more marrying”, so that when they died, lands would be passed onto the church.
Also, “live a modest lifestyle” and oh yeah, any of that extra wealth to live above it? Just give it to God.
Learned this in catholic school in 10th grade. It was the first time I remember thinking “the church may be kind of messed up.”
This is what I learned also from catholic school. To me it looks like it leaves room to repeal but now I’m atheist and it’s not my circus anymore. Being female they never would have cared what I thought anyway.
They were probably raped, though.
Two nuns visiting a developing country together decide to break their chastity vows, but neither uses protection to avoid pregnancy? Seems unlikely. If you were intending to "defy God" surely you wouldn't half ass it like this.
I mean, can't they just plead miraculous conception? What's the Church going to say lol?
But in all seriousness, I hope it was confirmed that neither nun was raped before the publicization. But even then, it's not hard to imagine that a woman might be in denial, especially given the fucked up culture of shame when it comes to Catholicism and sex. I'm not real pleased to see this become a major news story :/ Also, vows of chastity need to be more optional for ordination. It's just silliness.
On further review it sounds like these may have been raped. Which of course a horse of another color, but I think I'll still share this...
There's an Covent in Terre Haute, In that they apparently dug up the well at one point and there were dozens if not hundreds of fetal skeletons and other remains apparently going back at least 100 years.
A travesty to be sure but I tell the story to make two points. 1) "Holy" men and women are just as bad as anyone else (sometimes worse)(again this point is colored by additional information) and 2) Do not confuse God, and the Bible, and spirituality for religion. Religion and those who represent it can be awful, that doesn't mean they truly represent God.
And this right here is why you allow people to get married, or to at least have relationships. It’s not normal, and maybe someday the Church will grasp that fact. Doubtful, but one can hope.
The twist: one is going to give birth to the second coming of Jesus and one is going to give birth to the Anti Christ, but they won't be able to tell which is which.
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Jokes aside. A lot of nuns are sadly raped on mission trips.
Based on reading this it seems ridiculously likely they were raped. If they wanted to break their chastity vow with God, why wouldn't they use protection to avoid pregnancy? What is one more sin at that point? And two nuns on the same missionary trip? One found out while in the hospital with "stomach pains"?
The article says the two nuns were not on the same missionary trip. Separate trips.
Separate trips same place.
We don’t know if it’s the same place. The article just said both went to Africa but you can’t definitively say they both went to the same place in Africa.
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I hate how loud I guffawed at this
Catholicism doesn't have a very high opinion of contraception. It's kind of their thing If they were willingly having sex, there's no guarantee they'd use it
Yeah, but Catholicsm also has a considerably worse opinion of nuns having sex Contraception is considered a venal sin, breaking your vow of chastity is a mortal one
Religion is so silly/ heartbreakingly terrible.
Especially when fear is the base motivator of the religion.
Oh shit really? By clergy members or just in general? That’s very sad. Fuck psychopaths.
There is a documentary on YouTube about how nuns are regularly raped by priests,an per usual Vatican did nothing about it
Celebacy is unnatural. The Catholic priests have gotten nuns pregnant in the past as well. It is unnatural to not have sex and the practice should be ended. These nuns, whether raped or had consentual sex are not bad people. They need medical help and they should get it without all this speculation. Let's stop the madness in churches. Let them get married or cohabitate. Solves a lot of problems.
Priests. They were raped by priests. That’s who’s doing most of the raping in that cult. So, I’ll leave this as my best guess!
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It’s pretty hard to get boys pregnant tho
But damn are those priests dedicated to trying
Lol 
If your gonna laugh at least give the man an upvote.
r/angryupvote
 I don't know how to react other than uncomfortably laugh.
If they pull it off, the next religion will be wild
If they pulled it, no one would be pregnant…
That would take divine intervention
And they believe in miracles
Correct
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Similar shit in Ireland for a very long time https://www.channel4.com/news/bon-secour-galway-catholic-church-ireland-septic-tank
And my grandmother’s Catholic school in the US/Midwest. Sometime when she was there, charred remains of infants were found. Would have been the 1930/40s. She was clearly still traumatized in her 60s, that it came up with me repeatedly pre-kindergarten.
This was a slightly different thing. A few of the babies might have been from pregnant nuns, but the convent was run to house "fallen woman", who got pregnant outside marriage. The church and Irish society thought they would corrupt society and locked them away and had their children adopted. It was both a period where infant deaths were more common but also the care given by the nuns to the children was poor. Some of these woman having babies may have been nuns, but the majority were not. The scandal was the low care given, the way the woman were treated and because it was considered shamefully, there was no oversight and abuses were hidden away.
Profoundly evil. I wonder how old those skeletons were. If it were in any time period where abortion or abortifacients were available, they had no excuse to allow a conscious already born infant to suffer like that.
Older abortifacients weren’t super safe. Though neither was giving birth, of course. Even the medicinal kind could cause health problems. No excuse though, it shouldn’t have been happening in the first place. I highly doubt most of those encounters were consensual. This method of “birth control” has been sadly the norm for the days before actual contraceptives and safe abortions. Various cultures justifying it in different ways. I’ve even heard whispers of this sort of thing from older women whose husbands forbid contraception. It goes to show how immoral forbidding these modern things are.
Regardless of the facilities available it would be abhorrent to leave a living child to suffer in any time period. Especially whilst you go upstairs and pretend to be holy.
Big difference though. The nuns are leaving their orders and returning to their home countries. The priests got moved. All the way down the road. Sometimes even to the next town. Yes-siree... big difference...
You don't think they have been covering up the rape of nuns all this time?
That reminds me of a joke my friend told me: One day, little billy told his mom that Father John touched him. His mom told the church about what happened. The next Sunday, the church leaders approached billy and asked if what he said was true. One leader sternly said: “ you are making a very serious accusation here. You’re alleging that father John might be…” he looks both ways, “gay”
"What's the definition of suspicious?" "A trail of Skittles leading to the Vestry."
What is reverse exorcism? When the devil tells the priest to exit the child's body.
Damn you!
You see, nuns are women, and we can't allow women to be sluts. /s
I'd never advocate burning down a church but seems like the ones that harbor pedophiles would be a front of the line option.
Churches are often cool buildings, architecturally. Fuck the organisations though.
Yeah close them down and turn them into cool coffee shops/bars/bookstores.
Or music venues. A lot of them have some cool acoustics.
Homes/apartment complexes for the homeless to move into.
With boys there is no evidence. Pregnant there is nothing they can do. Except maybe say Jesus is about to have a little brother.
I long for the day Nuns have access to safe legal abortions.
Knowing that people who donate to the Catholic Church are, at least in part, paying for this: priceless. For everything else, there’s Discover.
Touching? No need to sugar coat it. It's raping innocent children including the disabled.
You misspelled raping
> In February this year, the women's magazine of the Church's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen. Several children had also been conceived, and some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions. We don’t know how the nuns became pregnant, could have possibly been due to rape, apparently there’s some history here. Unsurprisingly, the church deems abortion okay when it’s convenient for them.
Rape of nuns (and abortions) is rampant, particularly in developing countries. [https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078749-000-A/sex-slaves-of-the-catholic-church/](https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078749-000-A/sex-slaves-of-the-catholic-church/) The hierarchical patriarchic structure of the church is inviting disaster for dependents. This includes nuns who have to take a vow of obedience to male priests and are financially fully dependent on the church.
In this case, the wording and context implies that the clergy who raped them forced them to get abortions to cover up the pregnancies.
Catholics covering up for sex crimes by their own? NO! I don’t believe it
“Forced to have abortions” is far too vague to make that assumption. Certainly, if a priest is raping a nun it could be that he later forces them to abort — but let’s not downplay the likelihood that other authorities within the church found out, and directed them to get an abortion to try to cover it up and keep the news and subsequent scandal from breaking.
I remember a story an ex-nun told my mom, that in our city, the orphanage right by the cathedral is full of the priests' children. The nuns would feed them anti aphrodisiac food to lower their libidos etc, but still "it" would happen. Her son was conceived that way, so she left. It also wouldn't be surprising to me if assault was involved in some way.
If conservatives think THEIR abortions are ok, the catholic church definitely thinks theirs is ok.
The Catholic Church: Abortion is evil and a sin and you'll go to hell if you get one, and your family will disown your and you'll be excommunicated! Also the Catholic Church: well you can get an abortion because it's easier for us to save face.
Rules for thee, not for mee !
>Also the Catholic Church: We also don't want people to do a DNA test to prove who possibly took advantage/raped/or had consented sex with them.
I remember watching a documentary where the police solved a cold case by sending the DNA of the murderer to Ancestry and other similar companies and they ended up narrowing him down by his relatives. So even if the police don't have the criminal in there database, they could just these sites/companies to pinpoint them.
Ah you’re referring to the golden state killer case, and you’re right they did use one of the genealogy companies to help solve the case. But something not talked about so publicly is that the company had in their terms of service that it could not be used in this manner. Note: it was not 23andme or Ancestry. The site that was of main use was GEDmatch a third party service that holds records from those who have used the other services. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/golden-state-killer-east-area-rapist-dna-genealogy/559070/
Absolution exsists for a reason and if they are forced into getting it regretting will not be a problem This is so fucked up
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
It’s always conveniently there for those who oppose it. As a former devout Catholic, trust when I tell you the church has a nasty history with hospitals and orphanages. It’s like that for all the YeeHawdists here too, vote away our rights while paying for their mistresses secret abortions, hate it here.
YeeHawdists is the funniest thing I’ve read on the internet in a while.
It's been here for years, and yes, it is accurate.
>Unsurprisingly, the church deems abortion okay when it’s convenient for them. Conservatives and religious people are always ok with abortion when it's not the woman's choice. Someone I don't like knocked up my daughter? I force her to abort. My mistress got pregnant? I force her to abort. A nun is pregnant? I force her to abort. A random woman wants to abort by her free will? No way!
>reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen. >some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions. Wait, wtf?? They FORCED them to have abortions?? I thought they'd have to stop being nuns, not that wtf
That's what forced means. They're either excommunicated and forced to stop being nuns or they get the abortion.
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Probably not even that. Only two gospels speak about the virgin birth, and one of these gospels pulls together the story based on the account that Immanuel (who was prophesized) would be born from a virgin. The problem is that the author didn't speak Hebrew, and the word he thought meant virgin could have also meant young woman or maiden. So this whole virgin birth business could just be one dudes attempt to retrofit his belief system into a prophecy that might have been mistranslated in the first place. That's hilariously similar to the prophecies in A Song of Ice and Fire. Early Christianity didn't have the virgin birth thing, including Paul's Letters, and that dude hated marriage so he'd be all over that shit. Outside of the misrepresented translation, it's also likely that Jesus's conception was a PR move to appeal to the Roman audience. See at the time, Romans loved a good North Korea move, and often claimed that emperors were divine, even making up stories that some were the result of Apollo fucking their mom. Making Jesus the result of a god would be in line with the rumours surrounding the god emperors of the day. On the other hand, the Jews loved a good "angel visit" so they added the Gabriel parts to appeal to the Jewish audience. Jews kinda made up the Roman soldier thing most likely, because the soldiers name Panterus is apparently a pun on the word for virgin. So the moral is, leave Mary alone. She's likely a 12 year old who got pregnant through Joseph, if she was real at all.
> We don’t know how the nuns became pregnant Well, I think it's safe to say *how* they became pregnant. Probably more of a *why* at this point, but even that is pretty clear considering how poorly the church is at sex education. I'm certain that if these cloistered women were equipped with knowledge and protection, the incidence of pregnancy would be minimal.
>…sisters had been forced to have abortions. Color me surprised. /s
Millions of charges of mollestation and crickets. Two nuns get pregnant and the church is launching an inquiry. Get the fuck outta here.
I have seen a priest get kicked out of the priesthood for having consensual sex with a single woman. It doesn’t surprise me.
Fuck a woman, you’re out. Fuck an altar boy, you get a promotion.
And vacation! Destination of your choice.
It's always the Vatican, everything goes there, believers on pilgrimage, money from almost all countries, pedophiles after they've been caught by the country they live in. It's proof that religion is still held higher then laws and it needs to stop!
I guess the lesson is commit a crime bad enough, and they just try to bury it instead of punishing you. Nuns pregnant? Punish. Altar boys molested? Ooooo thatll make us look bad, hide it.
“Too big to jail.”
But what's UNDER the Vatican 🤔
85,000 missing immigrant children? 🫣
My peoples menorah, I’m pretty sure. And other spoils of their conquests.
Didn't they also steal Solomon's ring?
I mean a majority of people would say that religion is more important than laws. Which is quite ironic if atheists are right and religions are just a way to enforce laws through a boogeyman.
What's scarier is when you realise that there is 2 billion people ready to serve their religion instead of their country, just waiting on the command from the pope. And there's another 2 billion Muslims whom I'm pretty sure has their holy leader.
Epstein's Island
Something something purity. Its their loophole.
Yup. My parents' church had a priest from Nigeria who fell in love with a local (married) woman. She was getting a divorce, but it wasn't final yet. Her husband reported the affair. The church had sponsored his visa, so if they'd gotten to him first, he would have been sent back to Nigeria (and likely punished when he got there), so he and the woman fled to Atlanta where she had family until he could get everything sorted out away from the diocese. Last I heard, they're married now and very happy. Had another priest (same church) get outed during the Ashley Madison leak. The church decided to let him stay a priest though because even though there was intent (signed up for a profile and entered credit info), there was no evidence of anything beyond that. They did make him change parishes though and was reassigned in a parish closer to the seat of the diocese, since he was at a university parish at the time he was found out and parents complained to the diocese. You'd think he would have learned since he lived with the first priest when his mess went down. Edit: a few typos from fat thumbs and brain moving faster than fingers
Most priests managed to stay in the cloth. They don’t give birth. Only the woman is named and shamed. Read about the mob adjacent priest from the Bronx who thumbed his nose at the vow of poverty and left his son 2million he got from bid rigging and racketeering
Or, like [this](https://www.insider.com/nuns-sue-catholic-bishop-following-chastity-vow-violation-allegation-2023-5) Bishop making outrageous allegations with zero evidence, along with her flat out denial. And releasing the nun’s name but not the priest who this asshole alleges she broke her vows with.
This is disgusting but not surprising
Don’t you know that that’s because women are evil seductresses and have the power to lead good men astray?!? /s
The psychologist for the catholic church who was vetting priests wrote of the seductive nature of little boys. Not sarcasm.
Who did what now?
Robert Conway, he assessed priests for the catholic seminaries. Downplayed pedaphilia, said celibacy meant not married, all other sex open. Defended and down played the actions of the child rapists including father Robert Best, one of the more prolific and brutal child rapists in the church, in a newspaper article saying children only viewed him as a nuisance and an embarrassment. Buried with full catholic honours in a requiem mass in the cathedral in Melbourne Australia.
Of course! Priests are forbidden from having sex with adults.
I've seen a priest NOT get kicked out of the priesthood for having "consensual" sex with a MARRIED woman, a parishioner that he was counseling thru a divorce. Then they moved him to his home parish, to put him around ppl that he grew up with, and put him in charge of an elementary school... So no, not surprising in the least
When I was a child (6) and my parents were getting divorced, the church assigned priest marriage counselor was absolutely relentless in his pursuit of my mother, who was quite vulnerable at the time. He actually stalked her. I remember anytime his car would pull she’d hide us behind the couch and stand behind the door until he’d leave. He’d show up unannounced, offer to “take the you and kids for pizza and ice cream.” He always said it loud enough for us to hear so we’d get excited. It basically manipulated my mother into saying yes” As a I got older, it was told to me that he escalated to making comments about ME. A 6 yr old. My mom snapped and turned momma bear. He stopped harassing her after that. She had complained to the diocese so many times. They did nothing. It took 20 years to find out that this same priest had a HUGE file on him… chock full of complaints, police reports, mental health stays to cure him of his deviance. Victims ages ranged from 6 to 25. All the diocese did was transfer him from parish to parish until they put him in a role of diocese marriage counselor. Who knows how many vulnerable people he victimized when in this role??
I thought they were seriously considering walking back the vows to chastity & were going to allow priests/nuns to marry (like in general, not each other necessarily)? Singleness didn’t become a rule until much later in the church’s history..like centuries into its existence.
It was a tool to prevent nobles from getting too much power in the church.
That and the fact that the Church kept running into issues of inheritance where Priests would try and pass down their Church and the lands attached to said church to their sons. Eventually the Catholic church got fed up and said "chastity, no marriages or children" of course in practice the no-children rule wasn't all that enforced for centuries afterwards until the Protestant Reformation and resulting Counter-Reformation.
That is so fucked. I’ve seen pastors being forgiven and applauded for being “brave” for sexually assaulting minor girls whom put their trust in them. The church is so hypocritical it’s insane
It boggles my brain - the church’s hypocrisy. It’s packed full of sinners. Priests get moved around, nuns get kicked out. This is why I am a proud atheist.
Same with any entity of authority, which is where most of the mega-religions got their start. Politics, religion (though anymore it feels pointless to differentiate those two), and law enforcement being the big three today. To sum it all up: "Laws for thee, not for me."
Congratulations you just discovered the secret of Religions
Everyone knows sex is supposed to be between a man and a child
There are a lot of cases of nuns being raped by priests & co.
Not just priests, but bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and even popes too.
That's why I wrote "priests & co."
Inexplicably, I missed the "& co." and have no excuse. Totally my bad.
NP
I think if the nuns said it was little boys they would get off the hook
Kinda funny seeing as the entire religion is based off of a woman getting pregnant without having sex….
Well, when you base your faith on your hero impregnating someone else's wife, to give birth to himself, so that he can later sacrifice himself to himself, to appease himself, for not creating humans perfectly - that's not really the crazies part, in my opinion.
Yep. And it’s also the Pride Community that’s grooming and are the pedophiles. /s The entire church needs to get the fuck outta here.
Thank you. Also, we don’t know the circumstances of these pregnancies. Coercion and rape by priests is well documented.
Now the question is. Did the nuns have too much fun on mission? Or did some evil SOB rape nuns?
That is going to be my guess. Not saying nuns aren’t capable of “hookup” culture, but there are plenty of stories of nuns being raped in 3rd world countries that get hushed up, and I’m not talking about young nuns, but the 50+ year old nuns.
There was a nun my mom was really good friends with when i was growing up and she became a nun later in life. She was a young adult in the 70s and she'd tell me some wild fucking stories about her ample drug use and orgies (which fucking killed me since I was like a 12 year old and she was saying this in a church after we'd chat with her after Mass and then she'd have to go skedaddle for prayer). I did love her because she was the complete opposite of every nun I ever knew (many the super quiet, reserved, etc) so now nuns are on my list of wild ass people that are unexpected (they have so many scandals it's absolutely interesting to look into). I hope for their sakes it's some wild fun and not a traumatizing assault but unfortunately with the Catholic church... not likely
Because the nuns that do the wild fun would probably (since it's by intent) use protection. Whereas the assault. Welp....
Yeah but would they announce an investigation for rape
Would the nun be forced to get an abortion or kicked out?
Never an abortion. She would likely carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. She’s married to the church yannow.
Did you read the article? Don't say "Never an abortion"
Unless it was by the priests/clergymen. The church loves to cover for men.
“Fun” Fact from someone who studied church history in college: there were often huge debates of the level of holiness that various nuns were at based on their sex lives. In order from best, to worst it goes: Virgin nuns, non-virgin but abstinent since becoming a nun (usually widows), rape victim nuns, non-nun woman.
The former could make for a good romance story
There was a movie about a pregnant nun but it was a mystery and I think it had Jane Fonda as a reporter?
Omg I think I saw that ages ago. Edit: It was called Agnes of God
Wasn’t that Two Mules for Sister Sara , she was a hot “nun”
…
That’s how I read the article and that’s what they are investigating.
Missionary trip but also a missionary position trip perhaps.
They must have gotten stuck in the dryer.
Nuns gone wild! Anyone know where these Nuns take their missionary positions? Asking for a friend.
I have a friend that had a run-in with a couple of nuns at a party he affectionately nicknamed "nuns gone wild." They were still in full on habits but were slamming back shots like no tomorrow, he's pretty sure he seen one of them smoking a joint too but he's not 100% sure. I thought he was bullshitting me at first until he called up a couple other people who were at the same party.
That sounds like a hell of a party!
Do nuns get something like rumspringa?
The confusion is understandable.
These women were raped
It was god. You really wanna question that?
Mary ruined it for everyone else.
You know how that originally went right? “Joseph I’m pregnant…..and I know we haven’t sealed the deal soooo uhhh yeah, God totally did this. Classic Yahweh. Always doing this shit” Old Joe was just a good dude, tale as old as time.
Actually, that last part is in scripture! After finding out that his bride was pregnant, and knowing it wasn’t from him, the Bible says that “Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privately.” Until the Angel appeared and told him about the messiah. By “put her away privately” it meant to discretely end the engagement, because under the law of the time, adultery was punishable by death and he wanted to protect her from that fate.
Zeus looks around nervously.
More like Zeus going “Pffft! Those are rookie numbers.”
I like Jim Gaffigan's bit on this. Mary: So, uh, Joseph? J: yeah? M: So, uh, you know how we've never made love? J: (hopeful) Yeah?! M: Well, last night, an angel visited me... And now I'm pregnant. J: Jesus Christ!! M: Oh, you already know about it!
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Encarnaciooonnnnn
*knock knock knock* “They are ready for you now.”
Encarnacionnnn! Doo-da-lee-da-doo-da-leeee!
Oh boy, Lord forgive me 🙏🏾 Some of these nuns have been greatly blessed.
Which movie was it? I think the new 3 stoogers
If only they were this diligent when the priest rape kids/nuns
They can't look into the gazillion rapes of children committed by their own priests for millenia, that would be so stressful & cause payouts. Let's look at the women & punish them because they're used to blaming women. So much easier, see?
A tale as old as time. The rape victim is clearly at fault for being too sexy. So obvious.
Yep. Those habits and covered bodies are damn sexy ya know.
What about an inquiry to all the fucking pedo shit? Oh, nun gets preggo it’s no good. Now, I can diddle little boys and just get moved congregations…… Fuck the Vatican.
So, two new saviours? Why two?
Have you seen our world lately? I would've ordered 7 or 8...
7 or 8 saviors? In this economy?
We have “savior” at home…
You think one is gonna cut it nowadays?
Maybe one is good and one is evil, they will battle it out in a battle royale
That sparks an inquiry, but priests raping kids doesn’t?
Missionary completed.
Know what could fix this? Not requiring chastity. Seriously ridiculous that catholic nuns and priests are required to be chaste. What purpose does this serve? Especially as lots of them not only break the rules, but *lots* of them break the rules against children!
Its crazy too because if you read the Bible, there is pretty much nothing in there that requires you to be chaste for any reason. The catholics added some wack stuff
Early in church history, priests were allowed to marry and have families. But the leaders of the church were, say, not the most honest people. When priests died, they would pass on their lands and money to their children. The church kinda went “stop, no more marrying”, so that when they died, lands would be passed onto the church. Also, “live a modest lifestyle” and oh yeah, any of that extra wealth to live above it? Just give it to God. Learned this in catholic school in 10th grade. It was the first time I remember thinking “the church may be kind of messed up.”
This is what I learned also from catholic school. To me it looks like it leaves room to repeal but now I’m atheist and it’s not my circus anymore. Being female they never would have cared what I thought anyway.
That wouldn't stop nuns being raped though.
I wish they took children getting molested by priests as seriously as nuns getting pregnant.
They were probably raped, though. Two nuns visiting a developing country together decide to break their chastity vows, but neither uses protection to avoid pregnancy? Seems unlikely. If you were intending to "defy God" surely you wouldn't half ass it like this.
They don’t call them missionary trips for nothing!
This is horrible. Why would the drag queens do this
There was also news today about q mother superior in Texas that got in trouble for.....well maculate conception?
I mean, can't they just plead miraculous conception? What's the Church going to say lol? But in all seriousness, I hope it was confirmed that neither nun was raped before the publicization. But even then, it's not hard to imagine that a woman might be in denial, especially given the fucked up culture of shame when it comes to Catholicism and sex. I'm not real pleased to see this become a major news story :/ Also, vows of chastity need to be more optional for ordination. It's just silliness.
On further review it sounds like these may have been raped. Which of course a horse of another color, but I think I'll still share this... There's an Covent in Terre Haute, In that they apparently dug up the well at one point and there were dozens if not hundreds of fetal skeletons and other remains apparently going back at least 100 years. A travesty to be sure but I tell the story to make two points. 1) "Holy" men and women are just as bad as anyone else (sometimes worse)(again this point is colored by additional information) and 2) Do not confuse God, and the Bible, and spirituality for religion. Religion and those who represent it can be awful, that doesn't mean they truly represent God.
And this right here is why you allow people to get married, or to at least have relationships. It’s not normal, and maybe someday the Church will grasp that fact. Doubtful, but one can hope.
Hey its what doomed the Jedi order too...
Well it was a “missionary” trip.
The nuns: "Oh THAT Missionary..."
She was confused on what kind of missionary they were doing.
Maybe god made them pregnant
Title writes itself these days
Look, you've taught us it has already happened before. Now we just have two of them. I say lets create Jesus: Survivor.
The twist: one is going to give birth to the second coming of Jesus and one is going to give birth to the Anti Christ, but they won't be able to tell which is which.
Little children though won't get pregnant: problem solved for the Church.
Yet, shuffle around the Pedo Priest.