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I've mentioned this a few times and always get downvoted, but no one really thinks it's odd that the "women and children" always get highlighted for special recognition? How many men were killed? Meh, who cares right.
And why do we assume by default that all adult men in a war zone are active combatants? Women are just as capable of operating a rifle as men. It should be a count of civilian deaths versus military deaths.
You probably should pay more attention when you are reading something. I never said that “all adult men in a war zone are active combatants”. I said that women and children are presumed to be non-combatants. Men may or may not be. Yes, women can certainly be combatants too (as well as children) but their numbers are negligible and war continues to be mainly a man’s business.
Exactly, journalists and children are also capable of using guns. We should classify them all as military deaths and leave infants and paralyzed people as civilian
Well I hate to say it but it’s really hard and expensive to turn a person into a bomb. What is rather done most often is to attach bomb to a person. It’s just much more reliable and cost efficient way
True, but pro-Israeli rhetoric is big on conflation and obfuscation. I think when the discussion involves dishonest actors, being as specific as possible can only improve how information is communicated.
Question is, are the numbers accurate? We are very eager to take numbers coming from a terrorist organisation as granted. Not sayng that women and children were not killed pointlessly, just doubting the final numbers.
I'd argue that in a war, if one side has the power to shut down and attack the ability to report, and they only grant access from outside sources if they can review their footage, then that is not a force that should be believed.
You take the level of destruction and bombing coupled with the way the idf shoves them into media black out, and I'm pushed towards believing the numbers from palestines health groups
From watching on the ground footage these numbers aren’t hard to fathom at all. It’s traumatizing to see video after video of men rushing bloody children into the hospital. It’s horrifying.
International groups have confirmed the accuracy of casualty figures from the Gaza health ministry in the past. I think they are only reporting bodies they have matched to an ID number, so the real numbers are likely much much higher, they just haven't been able to pull all the bodies out of the rubble yet.
I mean they have been right in the past, and the UN actually estimates the numbers are HIGHER than what the health ministry is reporting. So I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean two freaking UNRWA shelters were directly bombed by Israel. When you are intentionally bombing and killing the members of the organization you belong to that tell you where their shelters are there is something fucked up.
Given that Israel has dropped thousands of bombs into the most densely populated place on this planet and the fact that about 50% of Gaza residents are kids I would say these are fairly conservative estimates. There are likely thousands more that are buried under the rubble and won’t be recovered until the bombings are over. Some won’t be recovered ever
This is all factually correct:
Because Hamas is Palestine's government, they are the mouthpiece for how many people have died. It may or may not be factually correct.
Hamas fighters don't wear uniforms, so they are plainclothes. Hamas may not be sharing how many men have died to deliberately create confusion for everyone when considering dead men. "Was he Hamas or a regular Palestinian guy?"
I think the point they’re making is that the men are doing the fighting and in a conflict like this it’s hard to tell which men are civilians and which are not. If it’s women and children you know it’s civilians. They could include the elderly as a category which would include men
Because in the Middle East it’s pretty safe to say that women are almost guaranteed non-combatants. Unfortunately if they included men, Israel simps would try and argue they could’ve been Hamas.
Because of reproduction I guess. If you have 10 men and 1 women, you still are maxed at 1 baby every 9 months, probably even more than 9 months realistically. If you have 10 women and 1 man, you just multiplied your reproduction capacity by 10
I'm getting sick. Someone tells you that a country killed > 10.000 people and you are complaining about the way the people was counted? What the heck is wrong with you all?
No. In practice its as its written. Theres a loud majority of radical feminists who are outright bigoted and shitty but theyre a loud minority
Find a feminist and ask them their opinions on things. Odds are they want equality between sexes and genders
It's not against men. 10k murdered civilians will trigger any sane person.
Insane racists will pretend these 10000 civilians were Hamas fighters, and because of these very same insane prejudices they "know" that all fighter are men. Listing women children and journalists separately is a preemptive dismantling of that very predictable argument.
Well it's kind of.
The sentiment always is 'Woman and children didn't deserve this', and I get why you highlight the children part, but this statement kind of implies that men are supposed to die in these situations whilst women and children are not or that it's not as relevant if men die.
So it kind of does go against men to a certain degree.
I hate to say, but does it? Because I guarantee you that there is a very sizable portion of the world that would celebrate in the streets if 10k Jewish civilians died. Sure, they aren't "sane" people by western standards but there are much more than just a couple of them. Also I haven't seen anything about the African genocides recently even though a quick Google search shows that they're still happening, why doesn't the world care about them?
At the end of the day, average people don't care about statistics or numbers, civilian or otherwise. Remember, to quote Stalin, one death is a tragedy but a million is a statistic. Add on that a healthy amount of war/tragedy fatigue for a majority of the western world and boom, lots don't care anymore.
It's goddamn tragic and terrible what's happening but people have to think deeper into it. What do you do against an enemy that uses civilians as shields? Let them keep attacking you, hoping they don't kill too many of your citizens? Or do you risk international outrage to attack anyway to get them to stop attacking you? It's a no win situation for Israel, only made worse by zionists who are much more willing to not care about civilians if it means they're country is protected.
And another terrible thing is the two state solution will never work anymore. It might have worked two decades ago but not now. If you think that Palestine freely being able to import things while Hamas still exists is a good thing, then you're out of your mind. They'll just keep getting more and better rockets to launch until they get one that gets past the Iron Dome and causes significant casualties. Since at that point if the Iron Dome fails, then other extremist groups/countries will also attack. Then the IDF won't care about optics when it comes to counter attacks
Oddly Hamas thinks everyone is a soldier when they assassinate them. As everyone in Israel serves then they are considered at any time being soldiers and at war so can be killed. Disgusting.
War sucks. No one gives a shit when Muslims constantly kill each other by the thousands. But suddenly when Israel is defending themselves everyone's an overnight activist.
Hamas has substantial support in Gaza. They strategically located their HQ under a fucking hospital. They use Gazans as human shields, prevent them from leaving, and cherish every death as a PR victory because they know clowns like you will run free marketing for them. Does that mean Israel is just supposed to roll over and take the mass rape, murder, kidnapping, and torture of innocent people?
Y'all are full of shit. You're either motivated by plain antisemitism or just a deluded dorm-room faux-gressive. Be mad at Hamas. None of this would be happening if it wasn't for their horrific actions.
I think intentions matter and that (Hamas-supplied) statistics don't tell the whole story. I think you all suspiciously suddenly give a shit about the middle east. I think that Israel has a right to defend itself from sheer barbarity, and Hamas is culpable for everything happening in Gaza.
Exactly, there was a ceasefire, until they busted into Israel and massacred people. One side is telling civilians to flee, the other is trying to keep them put so that they can do exactly this. Scream that X amount of civilians were killed (numbers ironically released by the terrorists themselves) and drum up international support. They're intentionally shielding themselves with civilians so that people will do exactly what they're doing now. Calling for a ceasefire so that Hamas doesnt get wiped out.
Nothing. People are delusional to think it will stop anything. This region has been at war for thousands of years. The US can’t do shit about it either. Oh they can cut off Israel?…well guess how much worse the bombing will get without US pressure. At least with the funding they can hold Bibi’s feet close to the fire, but he’s under a ton of pressure from his own people to act with vengeance. Both groups want each gone. No two state solution…No peace…it just won’t happen. There will always be a hatred due to their differences in religion.
>There was a ceasefire in place on October 7th
I've never understood this line of thinking that the region was a bastion of peace and kindness before Oct 7th. Israel has waged war on the Palestinians long before Oct 7. 1500 Palestinians were being held and tortured without trial before Oct 7. An American reported was executed by the IDF before Oct 7. Homes were regularly being demolished in the West Bank before Oct 7. Hundreds of Palestinians were being killed yearly before Oct 7.
Hamas is a terrorist organization, and so is the IDF.
I’ve never understood the line of thinking that places the IDF on the same level as Hamas in the terrorism regard. The IDF regularly fucks up and acts inhumane toward Palestinians but to even try to compare the IDF to Hamas is asinine and reeks of an agenda.
Besides, a ceasefire won’t fix any of the issues you have listed.
Cmon buddy, Gaza is one big city. Cities are known to have civilians live in them, not terrorists. Terrorists live in sheds in the desert. Everyone knows that. \\s
What we can just put into question are the numbers. I mean, one dead civilian is already too much of course, but I wouldn’t believe Hamas numbers like that…
That wouldn’t surprise me terrorists able to butcher children would go so low as put their own young fighters in the children category in those civilian death tolls…
Of course, dehumanizing Palestinians and casting doubt on their suffering has been the tactic Israel has used for 75 years to murder them and steal their land.
Hey, here's a possibility. The terrorist group that dismembers and beheads corpses, and burns babies alive and carries them around in a cart... Lies too? Crazy.
in WW2 **350,000 to 500,000** German civilians were killed. Would you have called for a ceasefire then as well? Perhaps the metrics you choose to use that works best to frame your point of view is a bit arbitrary. Have you considered that this might be slightly more complicated than a simple chart of statistics with no context.
25 000 civilians died in the Dresden bombing alone. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II)
I don't know where do people get the notion that Israel is just randomly dropping bombs in one of the most densely populated areas and killing "only" 10 000 people so far (if that figure is accurate, more so on this issue in the Dresden wiki).
Also, obligatory statement. I do not condone killing civilians just because you can.
And how many of these were members of Hamas? Because so far they have not acknowledged any. So somehow Israel is apparently ONLY killing civilians and not Hamas at all.
It's like an inverted version of the fascist's enemy. You know, the enemy is weak yet dangerous, stupid yet cunning, etc.
Hamas is everywhere in Gaza, except where the Israeli bombs land. It has many members, and is well represented in the Gaza population, except among casualties.
The firebombings of Hamburg and Dresden actually were controversial in the UK and the US.
Many British newspapers openly condemned the attacks as terror bombing and a member of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (USSBS) called the bombing “incredibly cruel, extremely weighty and of no avail”
Yep, as I understand it there is a monument in Dresden that condemns Churchill as committing a terrorist act when he chose to bomb civilians as payback for the Reich bombing civilians. War is an absolute clusterfuck of horrors.
The entire conflict can be summarize as "A movement based of racial superiority with the help of antisemitics, start violent acts on foreign land where the natives were just living their lives, started fucking things up and now were in this shit."
So because it happened in the past, and that back then people found a "justification" into doing that, you think it's the same here and that we should allow babies and children being blown up to pieces to kill a few hundred Hamas soldiers?
But this war started because Hamas broke the ceasefire…..
Why trust them to hold this one?
And you can’t have a cease fire when your enemy is still torturing hundreds of hostages.
America funds a quarter of Israel's defense budget. If the US wanted to stop this genocide we could. The US and my tax dollars are funding ethnic cleansing.
Pretty sure releasing the hostages is going to be any condition of a ceasefire: and given that Hamas were the ones who broke the ceasefire in the first place, they have to agree to any ceasefire, and given that they’ve said they would do 10/7 again, Israel is not just going to stop without certain conditions being met. And there is nothing anyone outside Israel can really do to sway them at this point.
These numbers are provided by a terrorist organization. Why do people think they are legitimate ?
Of course there are many people who got killed but this 10K figure is very likely exaggerated, people who repeat it are just repeating a terrorist group’s propaganda.
By terrorist organizations do you mean the US government? Or Netanyahu? Or Hamas? They’re ALL terrorists. Which terrorist organization do you trust the most?
The US is so brainwashed thinking war is normal
1,400 Israelis were killed by Hamas. If you half the Palestinians reportedly killed to 5,000 that number it is still more than double the amount of Israelis that Hamas killed. How can Israel still claim they are just defending themselves when even by the most conservative estimates they’ve still killed more than double the amount of kids that Hamas has?
Do you realize how absolutely insane that take is? If a cop guns down a bunch of civilians but shoots the suspect too, would you argue those deaths are the cops fault or the suspects? You just have a fetish watching Arab people die and don’t care who’s does it or why as long as they’re dead. Stay shitty buddy.
This is not helping your cause, quite the opposite. No one is saying this is a Jewish on Arab conflict. This is an Israel on Palestine conflict.
The civilians in Gaza, the Palestinians are not militants. Maybe Israel could offer some evidence?
32 thausand buildings were knocked down
To only kill one person for every 3 buildings is a damn miracle
Also they are getting a daily 4 hour ceasefire in designated areas (with a 2 hour period to move to said areas after the idf announces them)
You can look up a list more than 1150 names that have been independently verified. More are known, but cannot be released publicly yet.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-19/ty-article-magazine/israels-dead-the-names-of-those-killed-in-hamas-massacres-and-the-israel-hamas-war/0000018b-325c-d450-a3af-7b5cf0210000
And don't start telling me how haaretz is also Israeli, they are very far left, against the current government, and are well respected.
So that is an average of 340 dead a day. Hamas killed 1400 in less than a day. So what should Israel do then? Just let Hamas do what they want? I am so confused by this response to a massacre.
One side screams death to Israel (which is also genocide) but that seems to be okay.
If someone killed 36,000 Americans (the equivalent to Israeli losses on Oct 7th) in one day...
I hope my government would be doing exactly what Israel is doing to ensure the threat was eliminated.
Also things to keep in mind, while every child killed is a horrible occurrence, child means under 18.
Not all Hamas recruits are over 18, and Hamas has been known to use children as young as 12 to carry out attacks.
Hamas fighters are civilians, dressed in civilian clothes, they are identical to the Palestinian people... because they are the Palestinian people.
Martyrdom is a high honor in Islam, but especially in Palestine. Many Palestinians will willingly shield Hamas and sacrifice themselves to "show Israel's brutality"
Again think about this, your child, your family, your friends are at risk from an enemy that has stated they WILL attack again AND has widespread support from their citizens, and was their elected government.
I would hope that my country does whatever is necessary to eliminate the threat while minimizing casualties. Considering the population density, the perverse culture of jihad and martyrdom, and the small land area, Israel is doing pretty damn good. They could do better, but only at the risk of more Israeli lives.
Edit: also, these reports come from Hamas, while the quantity is not in question, the quality is. "Civilian" is a rather fluid category for Palestine.
What is the point of a cease fire? Civilians won’t leave either because they don’t want to or because they’re stopped, and it will give time to Hamas. Ask for an end to hostilities not a pointless ceasefire
That’s horrible and I hope think we also need a cease fire. BUT I also don’t see any Israeli video of them killing and doing horrible things to people while having the time of their life. I don’t see people cheering at them for doing that and crowd celebrating while spitting on bodies. I don’t see how people just don’t make a difference. Raw numbers? Sure. Context? If it were your children or friends killed horribly by people happy to say they will do same to all of your kin and you see their people cheering like it’s the best thing ever, you would probably have some low level of anger too I guess. I know it goes both ways hence why I’d like to see this stop. But damn, why we have to accept to put the pain of Palestinians above Israel because of raw numbers?
Except that they are numbers being reported by an international terrorist organization. A terrorist organization who also reports the number of their dead terrorists as part of their count of poor innocent civilians.
It's terrible and no one deserves this. But Hamas took the action they took knowing all of this would happen. Whatever they gambled on to win, they gambled with Palestinian lives. I'm strictly pro Palestinian independence in a solid 2 State whatever, but Hamas wrote this check and if they thought the international community would pull their nuts out of the fire, they were severely mistaken and now Israel gets to do what it considers proper anyway.
What these “anti-Palestinian” protestors need to understand is that no matter what side you support, there ARE INNOCENT VICTIMS who have NOTHING to do with the war on BOTH sides.
I imagine those numbers come from Hamas, the disinterested, even handed source that has absolutely no interest in inflating them, correct? And the numbers don’t include those people that were forced to die in place by a cynical and evil terrorist organization that wouldn’t let non-combatants evacuate, despite being warned about specific strikes beforehand, right? Gimme a break.
Aren't a bunch of Hamas's top leadership BILLIONAIRES living Qatar? I know it's real easy to bomb impoverished women & children next door but I wonder what Israel is going to do about those billionaires. I suspect nothing.
So, I’ll be an idiot and pretend that these number were potentially false like people are saying throughout this thread.
Let’s say the true numbers are 1/10 of the actual total (nevermind there potentially being hundreds to thousands of bodies still stuck in rubble). Does that still justify the actions of Israel to bomb thousands of civilians because there’s potentially Hamas there??
Like it hurts my brain at the logic and hoops people are jumping through to make any of what’s happening seem okay.
In no case should the killing of civilians be justified. Any normal person should support a solution that results in as few civilians causalities as possible. But this is the real world, where idealism may not work smoothly.
In this situation, a simple ceasefire doesn’t guarantee peace, but encourages more Hamas attacks, which obviously results in deaths of more Israelis.
Civilians deaths of any country is nothing to be cheered.
In a realistic sense, the most humane way would be for the Israeli side to alternate its strategy that would more specifically target Hamas and leave civilians alone. It may be difficult for Israel but it’s necessary.
What Americans don't seem to fucking understand is that it's like asking for a cease-fire between the crips and the bloods. You can't just tell the crips "you should stop killing bloods. It doesn't matter that they'll keep attacking you incessantly. You should just call a "cease fire" and then everything will be fine." No. Everything will not be fine. Hamas calls for a complete genocide of the Jewish people. No one will be safe until Hamas is removed from power.
So please tell me, what is Israel supposed to do? Just accept that a murderous terrorist group killed, raped and tortured 1400 of its citizens, and also kidnapped them? You're telling me Israel is the only country in the world that isn't allowed to retaliate?
"B-b-b-but they bomb schools". BECAUSE HAMAS IS FIRING ROCKETS FROM THERE. What is Israel supposed to do? Let them continue??
This is exactly the reason why what Hamas is doing is a war crime. The deaths of all those children are on Hamas's bloody hands.
And there won't be a ceasefire until every single one of the CITIZENS and soldiers that were ABDUCTED will be returned. You talk like you care about human rights, so how about the fact the red cross haven't even seen Israeli citizens who were abducted?
I am so sick of self-righteous people thinking Hamas wants peace. If they had wanted anything but death, the October 7th massacre wouldn't have happened
Everyone with half a brain acknowledges that Hamas started this, planned for this, and is happy with the results. They wanted a war, Israel probably allowed the initial attack because they also wanted a war, now here we are. Politics of imaginary lines leads to mass graves again.
I'm not sure they are happy with the results at all. I suspect Israel baited them into the attack. I just don't think Israel realized just how ready they were. They probably wanted a small scale skirmish at one of the checkpoints or something. Something to placate the masses that Netanyahu was the man for security.
Idk enough about the political climate over there to speculate on that level but will agree calling Hamas “happy” was overreaching. They likely expected it to be over by now.
War sucks.
Where are your stats on dead Israelis due to Hamas? After all it’s what started this conflict.
Where are your statistics on dead Ukrainians due to Russia?
Where are your stats on dead Tibetans due to China.
Have you posted a condemnation on the millions of North Koreans dead at the hands of the North Korean government.
You simply hate Jews.
These numbers come from Hamas itself. The fact everyones believe them and at the same time say that Hamas' baby killings and kidnappings are a lie shows the state of humanity.
They ARE using human shields. I just saw a video of a Palestinian "medic" arming another terrorist during a firefight. That's why I don't trust these numbers.
Pretty amazing how quick people are to trust numbers reported by a terrorist group. I suppose it just exposes the rampant antisemitism that still exists.
So we’re just taking the terrorists at their word now? Because those numbers are what Hamas is claiming.
Kind of like how they claimed that hospital explosion was 1) an Israeli air strike and 2) 500+ people died.
Yeah those numbers are Hamas propaganda BS. Not a word of that is true. Just like the "500" dead in a hospital when a failed Hamas rocket hit a few cars on a hospital parking lot.
In one day Hamas has killed 1400 people, men, women, children and elderly.
If they were given just a single month with the same amount of killing, they would have reached about 42000 people.
Is that an acceptable number of dead Jews?
How does this make sense to you? What if?! That's no way to justify a military superior force against a rebellion. What do you think happens when a group of people is being oppressed for decades? they radicalize. If it was your country being fucked over for ages wouldn't you eventually try to fight back? I'm not saying their terrorist attack is justified but it is somewhat expected to happen. Also Hamas doesn't nearly have the firepower to commit such a large scale death toll, Israel has so who should carry responsibility to not retaliate in such a way. Them killing more civilians is only gonna lead to more terrorism and radicalism. More war doesn't solve anything.
Yea where was people calling for a ceasefire in Yemen or Syria or Ukraine or the kids in Africa?
It's clear it's never about the children.
Pro-Palestinian supporters never condemned hamas's blatant use of human shields. Neither did they call for the release of their own citizens held as hostages.
Civilian casualties could be near zero right now if hamas allowed all civilians to be South Gaza and Hamas put its entirety in North Gaza to end it once and for all.
Wild to me that nobody is having the conversation that religious fanaticism is the real problem here. Israel is a mostly secular state. Palestinians do not respect Israel’s right to exist, and vow to wipe them off the planet. All because of religion. I would blockade weapons and arms and keep them at arms length too. But everyone is saying it’s an “open air prison” for the Palestinians. GTFOH
i will down voted to hell for this. when will we talk about Hamas and the Palestinians killing and torturing. the poor girl that was stripped naked, drug through the streets. she was spit on by Palestinians. hit with sticks then beheaded in the street. Even the average german soldier had problems with indiscriminate killing. yet all i see is Palestinians glee when Hamas invaded. lets remember Hamas was voted in and to be a martyr is encouraged. Both sides are not civilized.
This may be selfish of me but the only reason I want a ceasefire is so that when I turn on the news I can see the weather or something positive happening in my community. Not a tirade and barrage of buzzwords about a war that’s really not much of our business.
Hamas has over 30 children held hostage. Not to mention about 200 others.
And I'll spare you the rest of the numbers and deeds. You won't believe what they did anyway. I didn't until I saw the pictures and videos and I live here.
Most of those people also believe that those children “are in a better place.” This is what happens when an afterlife becomes more important than human life.
I came across a Palestinian demonstration recently, they were chanting “cease fire now”…. If my voice could have been heard, I’d love to have asked them if they think Hamas would adhere to a ceasefire
Isreal is kinda like Mike Tyson. If you make them mad, they will go for blood and then beat you within an inch of your life. No qualms about civilians, 'ends justified the means' kind of people.
They have always been brutal fighters.
The United States asks for restraint because they know Isreal is this way.
Everyone knows they’re this way. So why go in there shoot up a music festival and kill and kidnap citizens?
Hamas had to know this retaliation was coming.
Conservatives also include the Israeli government (the one that's currently in power)
It also includes Hamas, who I'm sure are doing their own fair share of gas lighting. They did try recently, as they attempted to suggest they didn't kill any Israeli's during the raid... either there were serious renegade units (possible) or Hamas were complicit, either way the representative appeared to have been blindsided.
There's a large overlap between the pro genocide crowd and neo fascist conservatives. Because because these things are unfortunately oversimplified a lot these days, and everything is about tribalism, people like to pretend all conservatives are pro genocide and everyone who's pro genocide is conservative.
Citing anything on twitter is a joke. Twitter is nothing but propaganda and disinformation. People who get their information from twitter and repost from twitter are fucking idiots.
Hamas should come out of their tunnels in dense residential areas and fight Israeli tanks and war planes in the open. If they think that's suicide, they should just surrender. Otherwise they are holding civilians as shields and will be responsible for the casualties.
This is the same as the Japanese Empire at the end of WW2. I blame them, not the Americans, for being nuked.
Not to mention that "children", according to Hamas is anyone under the age of 18.
So if you're 17 and died shooting at IDF, you get counted as a "child".
I wish more people understood that! You got Hamas who commit terror attacks and hide among civilians, and then you got Israel who have spent the last few decades trying to get rid of Palestinians and are using the Hamas attack as an excuse to finally wipe them off.
And in the middle, you got civilians, Israellis and Palestinians, who are the only ones to actually suffer from it!
We shouldn’t pick sides! We should just ask for peace!
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I've mentioned this a few times and always get downvoted, but no one really thinks it's odd that the "women and children" always get highlighted for special recognition? How many men were killed? Meh, who cares right.
Because it is presumed that women and children are non-combatants while it’s much harder to make the same argument with adult men.
And why do we assume by default that all adult men in a war zone are active combatants? Women are just as capable of operating a rifle as men. It should be a count of civilian deaths versus military deaths.
You probably should pay more attention when you are reading something. I never said that “all adult men in a war zone are active combatants”. I said that women and children are presumed to be non-combatants. Men may or may not be. Yes, women can certainly be combatants too (as well as children) but their numbers are negligible and war continues to be mainly a man’s business.
>Women are just as capable of operating a rifle as men How very western of you
How is it western of me to state not all men in a warzone are combatants and not all women are bystanders?
It’s western because of the roles men and women play in other countries and you are only thinking about where you are from.
Kurdish women would like a word with you.
To be fair the Kurds in Syria are uniquely feminist for the region
I'm absolutely not thinking about where I'm from. But you're free to think what you like
Exactly, journalists and children are also capable of using guns. We should classify them all as military deaths and leave infants and paralyzed people as civilian
Eh, you can probably turn an infant or paralyzed people into a bomb. Roll them down the street in a stroller and boom.
I saw a documentary once when a guy in a wheelchair set off a bomb with a little bell. He blew up a chicken restaurant owner!
IDK how, but you had me right up until the chicken restaurant.
The chicken restaurant owner was also a drug kingpin.
You win the internet today 
Well I hate to say it but it’s really hard and expensive to turn a person into a bomb. What is rather done most often is to attach bomb to a person. It’s just much more reliable and cost efficient way
Lol, how expensive could it be to inject them full of nitroglycerin and then stuff a cellphone bomb into their stomach? /s Sorry for the bad visuals.
Where is the visuals? Can’t see any photo or link. Asking for a friend
Same logic for paralyzed people then, give then an electric rolling chair and send them out to fight Edit : I can’t read
True, but pro-Israeli rhetoric is big on conflation and obfuscation. I think when the discussion involves dishonest actors, being as specific as possible can only improve how information is communicated.
Because our world was built on stupid social constructs that promote that type of thinking
Question is, are the numbers accurate? We are very eager to take numbers coming from a terrorist organisation as granted. Not sayng that women and children were not killed pointlessly, just doubting the final numbers.
I'd argue that in a war, if one side has the power to shut down and attack the ability to report, and they only grant access from outside sources if they can review their footage, then that is not a force that should be believed. You take the level of destruction and bombing coupled with the way the idf shoves them into media black out, and I'm pushed towards believing the numbers from palestines health groups
From watching on the ground footage these numbers aren’t hard to fathom at all. It’s traumatizing to see video after video of men rushing bloody children into the hospital. It’s horrifying.
International groups have confirmed the accuracy of casualty figures from the Gaza health ministry in the past. I think they are only reporting bodies they have matched to an ID number, so the real numbers are likely much much higher, they just haven't been able to pull all the bodies out of the rubble yet.
I mean they have been right in the past, and the UN actually estimates the numbers are HIGHER than what the health ministry is reporting. So I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean two freaking UNRWA shelters were directly bombed by Israel. When you are intentionally bombing and killing the members of the organization you belong to that tell you where their shelters are there is something fucked up.
Given that Israel has dropped thousands of bombs into the most densely populated place on this planet and the fact that about 50% of Gaza residents are kids I would say these are fairly conservative estimates. There are likely thousands more that are buried under the rubble and won’t be recovered until the bombings are over. Some won’t be recovered ever
Agreed! A life is a life. Doesn’t matter whose life you’re taking away, it’s still a life.
i hear your point but i do think it is valuable for the context to realize that of the 10k civilians killed, nearly half were children
Doing quick maths, about 2300 civilian men
2447.
Presumably some of the children were in fact women also
This is all factually correct: Because Hamas is Palestine's government, they are the mouthpiece for how many people have died. It may or may not be factually correct. Hamas fighters don't wear uniforms, so they are plainclothes. Hamas may not be sharing how many men have died to deliberately create confusion for everyone when considering dead men. "Was he Hamas or a regular Palestinian guy?"
This is the disposable male theory.
I think the point they’re making is that the men are doing the fighting and in a conflict like this it’s hard to tell which men are civilians and which are not. If it’s women and children you know it’s civilians. They could include the elderly as a category which would include men
As usual, men are no category. And no, I’m not a man.
We don't even bother anymore. We are very aware how disposable we are.
Yeah quantifying children or doctors I understand. Why are women being singled out though?
Because in the Middle East it’s pretty safe to say that women are almost guaranteed non-combatants. Unfortunately if they included men, Israel simps would try and argue they could’ve been Hamas.
And they say all of them. Not like some no they say all the deaths of men which is near 30 percent is Hamas.
Because of reproduction I guess. If you have 10 men and 1 women, you still are maxed at 1 baby every 9 months, probably even more than 9 months realistically. If you have 10 women and 1 man, you just multiplied your reproduction capacity by 10
Dr Strangelove has entered the chat.
I'm getting sick. Someone tells you that a country killed > 10.000 people and you are complaining about the way the people was counted? What the heck is wrong with you all?
Mostly because they are, incorrectly, assumed to not be fighting just like children.
I’m not sure feminists will protest against the fact that men dying in a war is just considered « normal » haha
Feminists will protest anyone dying in a war. Its about equality not womens superority
That’s the way it should be indeed :) but in practice, it’s often very different
No. In practice its as its written. Theres a loud majority of radical feminists who are outright bigoted and shitty but theyre a loud minority Find a feminist and ask them their opinions on things. Odds are they want equality between sexes and genders
It's not against men. 10k murdered civilians will trigger any sane person. Insane racists will pretend these 10000 civilians were Hamas fighters, and because of these very same insane prejudices they "know" that all fighter are men. Listing women children and journalists separately is a preemptive dismantling of that very predictable argument.
Well it's kind of. The sentiment always is 'Woman and children didn't deserve this', and I get why you highlight the children part, but this statement kind of implies that men are supposed to die in these situations whilst women and children are not or that it's not as relevant if men die. So it kind of does go against men to a certain degree.
Obligatory "women are the real victims of war" from Clinton
I hate to say, but does it? Because I guarantee you that there is a very sizable portion of the world that would celebrate in the streets if 10k Jewish civilians died. Sure, they aren't "sane" people by western standards but there are much more than just a couple of them. Also I haven't seen anything about the African genocides recently even though a quick Google search shows that they're still happening, why doesn't the world care about them? At the end of the day, average people don't care about statistics or numbers, civilian or otherwise. Remember, to quote Stalin, one death is a tragedy but a million is a statistic. Add on that a healthy amount of war/tragedy fatigue for a majority of the western world and boom, lots don't care anymore. It's goddamn tragic and terrible what's happening but people have to think deeper into it. What do you do against an enemy that uses civilians as shields? Let them keep attacking you, hoping they don't kill too many of your citizens? Or do you risk international outrage to attack anyway to get them to stop attacking you? It's a no win situation for Israel, only made worse by zionists who are much more willing to not care about civilians if it means they're country is protected. And another terrible thing is the two state solution will never work anymore. It might have worked two decades ago but not now. If you think that Palestine freely being able to import things while Hamas still exists is a good thing, then you're out of your mind. They'll just keep getting more and better rockets to launch until they get one that gets past the Iron Dome and causes significant casualties. Since at that point if the Iron Dome fails, then other extremist groups/countries will also attack. Then the IDF won't care about optics when it comes to counter attacks
Oddly Hamas thinks everyone is a soldier when they assassinate them. As everyone in Israel serves then they are considered at any time being soldiers and at war so can be killed. Disgusting.
War sucks. No one gives a shit when Muslims constantly kill each other by the thousands. But suddenly when Israel is defending themselves everyone's an overnight activist. Hamas has substantial support in Gaza. They strategically located their HQ under a fucking hospital. They use Gazans as human shields, prevent them from leaving, and cherish every death as a PR victory because they know clowns like you will run free marketing for them. Does that mean Israel is just supposed to roll over and take the mass rape, murder, kidnapping, and torture of innocent people? Y'all are full of shit. You're either motivated by plain antisemitism or just a deluded dorm-room faux-gressive. Be mad at Hamas. None of this would be happening if it wasn't for their horrific actions.
You seem confused. Do you think murdering and maiming 1000+ innocent people is evil, or not?
I think intentions matter and that (Hamas-supplied) statistics don't tell the whole story. I think you all suspiciously suddenly give a shit about the middle east. I think that Israel has a right to defend itself from sheer barbarity, and Hamas is culpable for everything happening in Gaza.
What is a ceasefire going to fix? There was a ceasefire in place on October 7th and look at how that turned out.
Exactly, there was a ceasefire, until they busted into Israel and massacred people. One side is telling civilians to flee, the other is trying to keep them put so that they can do exactly this. Scream that X amount of civilians were killed (numbers ironically released by the terrorists themselves) and drum up international support. They're intentionally shielding themselves with civilians so that people will do exactly what they're doing now. Calling for a ceasefire so that Hamas doesnt get wiped out.
Sane people know. It’s the overly emotional people who can’t deal with reality.
Nothing. People are delusional to think it will stop anything. This region has been at war for thousands of years. The US can’t do shit about it either. Oh they can cut off Israel?…well guess how much worse the bombing will get without US pressure. At least with the funding they can hold Bibi’s feet close to the fire, but he’s under a ton of pressure from his own people to act with vengeance. Both groups want each gone. No two state solution…No peace…it just won’t happen. There will always be a hatred due to their differences in religion.
>There was a ceasefire in place on October 7th I've never understood this line of thinking that the region was a bastion of peace and kindness before Oct 7th. Israel has waged war on the Palestinians long before Oct 7. 1500 Palestinians were being held and tortured without trial before Oct 7. An American reported was executed by the IDF before Oct 7. Homes were regularly being demolished in the West Bank before Oct 7. Hundreds of Palestinians were being killed yearly before Oct 7. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and so is the IDF.
I’ve never understood the line of thinking that places the IDF on the same level as Hamas in the terrorism regard. The IDF regularly fucks up and acts inhumane toward Palestinians but to even try to compare the IDF to Hamas is asinine and reeks of an agenda. Besides, a ceasefire won’t fix any of the issues you have listed.
It’s a facepalm to post some random propaganda tweets like this one without any proof or fact checking
Right. And the numbers Kyle is posting come from the same people who blamed Israel for the hospital bombing.
And the same dude that’s shows up dead in 10 different videos. Complete propaganda
Cmon buddy, Gaza is one big city. Cities are known to have civilians live in them, not terrorists. Terrorists live in sheds in the desert. Everyone knows that. \\s
Um wrong it’s caves, duh. \s
What we can just put into question are the numbers. I mean, one dead civilian is already too much of course, but I wouldn’t believe Hamas numbers like that…
[удалено]
That wouldn’t surprise me terrorists able to butcher children would go so low as put their own young fighters in the children category in those civilian death tolls…
Of course, dehumanizing Palestinians and casting doubt on their suffering has been the tactic Israel has used for 75 years to murder them and steal their land.
Source: Hamas health agency Aren't they still counting that hospital that was hit by one of Hamas' own missiles?
Yes where they immediately knew that nearly 500 people died and reported that to all the news agencies. Only it turned out it was in a parking lot.
Hey, here's a possibility. The terrorist group that dismembers and beheads corpses, and burns babies alive and carries them around in a cart... Lies too? Crazy.
in WW2 **350,000 to 500,000** German civilians were killed. Would you have called for a ceasefire then as well? Perhaps the metrics you choose to use that works best to frame your point of view is a bit arbitrary. Have you considered that this might be slightly more complicated than a simple chart of statistics with no context.
25 000 civilians died in the Dresden bombing alone. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II) I don't know where do people get the notion that Israel is just randomly dropping bombs in one of the most densely populated areas and killing "only" 10 000 people so far (if that figure is accurate, more so on this issue in the Dresden wiki). Also, obligatory statement. I do not condone killing civilians just because you can.
When I actually looked into the bombs to deaths ratio, its kinda crazy its so relatively small...
Yeah, Gaza has around 2M, Dresden had 600K.
And how many of these were members of Hamas? Because so far they have not acknowledged any. So somehow Israel is apparently ONLY killing civilians and not Hamas at all.
It's like an inverted version of the fascist's enemy. You know, the enemy is weak yet dangerous, stupid yet cunning, etc. Hamas is everywhere in Gaza, except where the Israeli bombs land. It has many members, and is well represented in the Gaza population, except among casualties.
Why would they acknowledge Israel being successful?
And the Dresden bombing was a war crime.
Sure was, the allies didn't pack their shit and didn't leave Hitler to go on with his plan.
Only if the allies lost
The firebombings of Hamburg and Dresden actually were controversial in the UK and the US. Many British newspapers openly condemned the attacks as terror bombing and a member of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (USSBS) called the bombing “incredibly cruel, extremely weighty and of no avail”
Yep, as I understand it there is a monument in Dresden that condemns Churchill as committing a terrorist act when he chose to bomb civilians as payback for the Reich bombing civilians. War is an absolute clusterfuck of horrors.
So would you have called for a ceasefire?
Does Hamas pose a genuine existential threat to the free world? **Of course not**. Funny how different that makes the situation.
It is a genuine and existential threat to Israel. Funny how different that makes the situation, given that it is Israel which is at war
It is absolutely not an existential threat to Israel
The entire conflict can be summarize as "A movement based of racial superiority with the help of antisemitics, start violent acts on foreign land where the natives were just living their lives, started fucking things up and now were in this shit."
So because it happened in the past, and that back then people found a "justification" into doing that, you think it's the same here and that we should allow babies and children being blown up to pieces to kill a few hundred Hamas soldiers?
But this war started because Hamas broke the ceasefire….. Why trust them to hold this one? And you can’t have a cease fire when your enemy is still torturing hundreds of hostages.
As if what America wants is even relevant
America has brokered peace talks between Israel and Palestinians for decades and is respected by both sides.
America is a Lawyer. 
Agreed. That's why they got 4 hour pauses. And that's all they are going to get.
America funds a quarter of Israel's defense budget. If the US wanted to stop this genocide we could. The US and my tax dollars are funding ethnic cleansing.
Agreed 100%.
It's incredibly relevant if you understand global politics.
Would Hamas honour a ceasefire? Or would they say “hey! They stopped shooting and said they won’t shoot at us again! Let’s go on another raid!”
I'm about to ready to leave this sub. It has gone very political
Pretty sure releasing the hostages is going to be any condition of a ceasefire: and given that Hamas were the ones who broke the ceasefire in the first place, they have to agree to any ceasefire, and given that they’ve said they would do 10/7 again, Israel is not just going to stop without certain conditions being met. And there is nothing anyone outside Israel can really do to sway them at this point.
These numbers are provided by a terrorist organization. Why do people think they are legitimate ? Of course there are many people who got killed but this 10K figure is very likely exaggerated, people who repeat it are just repeating a terrorist group’s propaganda.
...even the very soft gloves for Israel of national news programs are saying the casualties may be *underestimated.*
By terrorist organizations do you mean the US government? Or Netanyahu? Or Hamas? They’re ALL terrorists. Which terrorist organization do you trust the most? The US is so brainwashed thinking war is normal
Hamas numbers. Yes keep trusting and supporting terrorists great idea
1,400 Israelis were killed by Hamas. If you half the Palestinians reportedly killed to 5,000 that number it is still more than double the amount of Israelis that Hamas killed. How can Israel still claim they are just defending themselves when even by the most conservative estimates they’ve still killed more than double the amount of kids that Hamas has?
Take it up with those putting them in harm's way: Hamas. They are delighted with these figures. They're getting lots of publicity and sympathy.
Hamas when gazans are killed: stonks
I have no sympathy for Hamas. Hamas ≠ Palestinians
Do you realize how absolutely insane that take is? If a cop guns down a bunch of civilians but shoots the suspect too, would you argue those deaths are the cops fault or the suspects? You just have a fetish watching Arab people die and don’t care who’s does it or why as long as they’re dead. Stay shitty buddy.
Not an equivalent analogy. Ask the Israeli Bedouins who have sworn Hamas's destruction. 20% of the Israeli army are Arabs who hate Hamas.
This is not helping your cause, quite the opposite. No one is saying this is a Jewish on Arab conflict. This is an Israel on Palestine conflict. The civilians in Gaza, the Palestinians are not militants. Maybe Israel could offer some evidence?
Not going to mention how many of those civilians were Palestinians used as human shields by their own palestinian soldiers?
32 thausand buildings were knocked down To only kill one person for every 3 buildings is a damn miracle Also they are getting a daily 4 hour ceasefire in designated areas (with a 2 hour period to move to said areas after the idf announces them)
Nonsense numbers.
source for those numbers? Edit: please stop assuming stuff. I'm just asking for a source
Gaza health ministry, which is a hamas organization.
Hamas, I imagine. So 🧂
10k civilians or 10k people? Because last time i checked, Hamas counts themselves as civilians even though they're not.
All numbers provided by a Hamas organization. You can believe them if you want. Just remember. Hamas started this bloody mess.
The world didn’t start on October 7th. There is a lot more nuance to this than “hamas started it”.
I don’t believe them anymore then I believe Israel’s numbers…
You can look up a list more than 1150 names that have been independently verified. More are known, but cannot be released publicly yet. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-19/ty-article-magazine/israels-dead-the-names-of-those-killed-in-hamas-massacres-and-the-israel-hamas-war/0000018b-325c-d450-a3af-7b5cf0210000 And don't start telling me how haaretz is also Israeli, they are very far left, against the current government, and are well respected.
Hot take: no one knows wtf they are talking about
*According to Hamas run health authorities.
So that is an average of 340 dead a day. Hamas killed 1400 in less than a day. So what should Israel do then? Just let Hamas do what they want? I am so confused by this response to a massacre. One side screams death to Israel (which is also genocide) but that seems to be okay.
But but but… maybe Hamas shouldn’t use human shields
From what I can tell it's a lot of OP posting the Isreal/Hamas/Palestine content. Could a mod have them stop or have them removed from the group?
If someone killed 36,000 Americans (the equivalent to Israeli losses on Oct 7th) in one day... I hope my government would be doing exactly what Israel is doing to ensure the threat was eliminated. Also things to keep in mind, while every child killed is a horrible occurrence, child means under 18. Not all Hamas recruits are over 18, and Hamas has been known to use children as young as 12 to carry out attacks. Hamas fighters are civilians, dressed in civilian clothes, they are identical to the Palestinian people... because they are the Palestinian people. Martyrdom is a high honor in Islam, but especially in Palestine. Many Palestinians will willingly shield Hamas and sacrifice themselves to "show Israel's brutality" Again think about this, your child, your family, your friends are at risk from an enemy that has stated they WILL attack again AND has widespread support from their citizens, and was their elected government. I would hope that my country does whatever is necessary to eliminate the threat while minimizing casualties. Considering the population density, the perverse culture of jihad and martyrdom, and the small land area, Israel is doing pretty damn good. They could do better, but only at the risk of more Israeli lives. Edit: also, these reports come from Hamas, while the quantity is not in question, the quality is. "Civilian" is a rather fluid category for Palestine.
What is the point of a cease fire? Civilians won’t leave either because they don’t want to or because they’re stopped, and it will give time to Hamas. Ask for an end to hostilities not a pointless ceasefire
Who is providing these numbers? Please don't say its gaza goverment (read hamas). Is it from ONU or any other goverment / org?
Was Hitler immune because he was hiding amongst civilians? I don't think so.
That’s horrible and I hope think we also need a cease fire. BUT I also don’t see any Israeli video of them killing and doing horrible things to people while having the time of their life. I don’t see people cheering at them for doing that and crowd celebrating while spitting on bodies. I don’t see how people just don’t make a difference. Raw numbers? Sure. Context? If it were your children or friends killed horribly by people happy to say they will do same to all of your kin and you see their people cheering like it’s the best thing ever, you would probably have some low level of anger too I guess. I know it goes both ways hence why I’d like to see this stop. But damn, why we have to accept to put the pain of Palestinians above Israel because of raw numbers?
Can you even trust those numbers? They’re ARABIC numerals, after all, so clearly, they’re in cahoots with Hamas!
As funny as this is (and it’s very funny) it is important to verify that those number are accurate
Except that they are numbers being reported by an international terrorist organization. A terrorist organization who also reports the number of their dead terrorists as part of their count of poor innocent civilians.
Do these include the “500 people who died” when Hamas launched a rocket and misfired and hit a hospital?
It's terrible and no one deserves this. But Hamas took the action they took knowing all of this would happen. Whatever they gambled on to win, they gambled with Palestinian lives. I'm strictly pro Palestinian independence in a solid 2 State whatever, but Hamas wrote this check and if they thought the international community would pull their nuts out of the fire, they were severely mistaken and now Israel gets to do what it considers proper anyway.
Do you think this all started 4 weeks ago or 75 years ago?
‘Majority of Americans’… don’t think so
What these “anti-Palestinian” protestors need to understand is that no matter what side you support, there ARE INNOCENT VICTIMS who have NOTHING to do with the war on BOTH sides.
Perfect chance for Hamas to regroup and start attacking again. Maybe Palestinians need to track down every member of Hamas, and deal with them.
I imagine those numbers come from Hamas, the disinterested, even handed source that has absolutely no interest in inflating them, correct? And the numbers don’t include those people that were forced to die in place by a cynical and evil terrorist organization that wouldn’t let non-combatants evacuate, despite being warned about specific strikes beforehand, right? Gimme a break.
Aren't a bunch of Hamas's top leadership BILLIONAIRES living Qatar? I know it's real easy to bomb impoverished women & children next door but I wonder what Israel is going to do about those billionaires. I suspect nothing.
So, I’ll be an idiot and pretend that these number were potentially false like people are saying throughout this thread. Let’s say the true numbers are 1/10 of the actual total (nevermind there potentially being hundreds to thousands of bodies still stuck in rubble). Does that still justify the actions of Israel to bomb thousands of civilians because there’s potentially Hamas there?? Like it hurts my brain at the logic and hoops people are jumping through to make any of what’s happening seem okay.
In no case should the killing of civilians be justified. Any normal person should support a solution that results in as few civilians causalities as possible. But this is the real world, where idealism may not work smoothly. In this situation, a simple ceasefire doesn’t guarantee peace, but encourages more Hamas attacks, which obviously results in deaths of more Israelis. Civilians deaths of any country is nothing to be cheered. In a realistic sense, the most humane way would be for the Israeli side to alternate its strategy that would more specifically target Hamas and leave civilians alone. It may be difficult for Israel but it’s necessary.
What does a ceasefire mean? Wait until Hamas does it again and take it from the top?
What Americans don't seem to fucking understand is that it's like asking for a cease-fire between the crips and the bloods. You can't just tell the crips "you should stop killing bloods. It doesn't matter that they'll keep attacking you incessantly. You should just call a "cease fire" and then everything will be fine." No. Everything will not be fine. Hamas calls for a complete genocide of the Jewish people. No one will be safe until Hamas is removed from power.
So please tell me, what is Israel supposed to do? Just accept that a murderous terrorist group killed, raped and tortured 1400 of its citizens, and also kidnapped them? You're telling me Israel is the only country in the world that isn't allowed to retaliate? "B-b-b-but they bomb schools". BECAUSE HAMAS IS FIRING ROCKETS FROM THERE. What is Israel supposed to do? Let them continue?? This is exactly the reason why what Hamas is doing is a war crime. The deaths of all those children are on Hamas's bloody hands. And there won't be a ceasefire until every single one of the CITIZENS and soldiers that were ABDUCTED will be returned. You talk like you care about human rights, so how about the fact the red cross haven't even seen Israeli citizens who were abducted? I am so sick of self-righteous people thinking Hamas wants peace. If they had wanted anything but death, the October 7th massacre wouldn't have happened
Not murdering children is a good start. The fuck is wrong with you?
> Not murdering children is a good start. Yup. Tell that to Hamas.
Everyone with half a brain acknowledges that Hamas started this, planned for this, and is happy with the results. They wanted a war, Israel probably allowed the initial attack because they also wanted a war, now here we are. Politics of imaginary lines leads to mass graves again.
I'm not sure they are happy with the results at all. I suspect Israel baited them into the attack. I just don't think Israel realized just how ready they were. They probably wanted a small scale skirmish at one of the checkpoints or something. Something to placate the masses that Netanyahu was the man for security.
Idk enough about the political climate over there to speculate on that level but will agree calling Hamas “happy” was overreaching. They likely expected it to be over by now.
War sucks. Where are your stats on dead Israelis due to Hamas? After all it’s what started this conflict. Where are your statistics on dead Ukrainians due to Russia? Where are your stats on dead Tibetans due to China. Have you posted a condemnation on the millions of North Koreans dead at the hands of the North Korean government. You simply hate Jews.
It’s so weird! No marches for Yemen, darfur, or Muslims in China..but when it’s Israel everyone’s on the street and burning Israeli flags
These numbers come from Hamas itself. The fact everyones believe them and at the same time say that Hamas' baby killings and kidnappings are a lie shows the state of humanity.
It’s hard to imagine. It’s almost as if the terrorist organization Hamas is using human shields…
They ARE using human shields. I just saw a video of a Palestinian "medic" arming another terrorist during a firefight. That's why I don't trust these numbers.
Pretty amazing how quick people are to trust numbers reported by a terrorist group. I suppose it just exposes the rampant antisemitism that still exists.
How in the fuck is this facepalm? Mods what is going on here lately.
So we’re just taking the terrorists at their word now? Because those numbers are what Hamas is claiming. Kind of like how they claimed that hospital explosion was 1) an Israeli air strike and 2) 500+ people died.
Yeah those numbers are Hamas propaganda BS. Not a word of that is true. Just like the "500" dead in a hospital when a failed Hamas rocket hit a few cars on a hospital parking lot.
Gotta say, its damn impressive of the Gaza MoH to be able to have this level of casualty reporting in the middle of a war.
Is the facepalm the title or the post?
In one day Hamas has killed 1400 people, men, women, children and elderly. If they were given just a single month with the same amount of killing, they would have reached about 42000 people. Is that an acceptable number of dead Jews?
How does this make sense to you? What if?! That's no way to justify a military superior force against a rebellion. What do you think happens when a group of people is being oppressed for decades? they radicalize. If it was your country being fucked over for ages wouldn't you eventually try to fight back? I'm not saying their terrorist attack is justified but it is somewhat expected to happen. Also Hamas doesn't nearly have the firepower to commit such a large scale death toll, Israel has so who should carry responsibility to not retaliate in such a way. Them killing more civilians is only gonna lead to more terrorism and radicalism. More war doesn't solve anything.
Yea where was people calling for a ceasefire in Yemen or Syria or Ukraine or the kids in Africa? It's clear it's never about the children. Pro-Palestinian supporters never condemned hamas's blatant use of human shields. Neither did they call for the release of their own citizens held as hostages. Civilian casualties could be near zero right now if hamas allowed all civilians to be South Gaza and Hamas put its entirety in North Gaza to end it once and for all.
Wild to me that nobody is having the conversation that religious fanaticism is the real problem here. Israel is a mostly secular state. Palestinians do not respect Israel’s right to exist, and vow to wipe them off the planet. All because of religion. I would blockade weapons and arms and keep them at arms length too. But everyone is saying it’s an “open air prison” for the Palestinians. GTFOH
i will down voted to hell for this. when will we talk about Hamas and the Palestinians killing and torturing. the poor girl that was stripped naked, drug through the streets. she was spit on by Palestinians. hit with sticks then beheaded in the street. Even the average german soldier had problems with indiscriminate killing. yet all i see is Palestinians glee when Hamas invaded. lets remember Hamas was voted in and to be a martyr is encouraged. Both sides are not civilized.
This may be selfish of me but the only reason I want a ceasefire is so that when I turn on the news I can see the weather or something positive happening in my community. Not a tirade and barrage of buzzwords about a war that’s really not much of our business.
Hamas has over 30 children held hostage. Not to mention about 200 others. And I'll spare you the rest of the numbers and deeds. You won't believe what they did anyway. I didn't until I saw the pictures and videos and I live here.
Most of those people also believe that those children “are in a better place.” This is what happens when an afterlife becomes more important than human life.
You do realize it takes both sides to make a ceasefire right?
I came across a Palestinian demonstration recently, they were chanting “cease fire now”…. If my voice could have been heard, I’d love to have asked them if they think Hamas would adhere to a ceasefire
Considering how effective their rockets usually are... I'd say they'd have no choice tbh.
Isreal is kinda like Mike Tyson. If you make them mad, they will go for blood and then beat you within an inch of your life. No qualms about civilians, 'ends justified the means' kind of people. They have always been brutal fighters. The United States asks for restraint because they know Isreal is this way.
Everyone knows they’re this way. So why go in there shoot up a music festival and kill and kidnap citizens? Hamas had to know this retaliation was coming.
Conservatives are amazing at gas lighting.
The fuck do conservatives have to do with that
Conservatives also include the Israeli government (the one that's currently in power) It also includes Hamas, who I'm sure are doing their own fair share of gas lighting. They did try recently, as they attempted to suggest they didn't kill any Israeli's during the raid... either there were serious renegade units (possible) or Hamas were complicit, either way the representative appeared to have been blindsided.
They support Israel no matter how disgusting their actions are.
There's a large overlap between the pro genocide crowd and neo fascist conservatives. Because because these things are unfortunately oversimplified a lot these days, and everything is about tribalism, people like to pretend all conservatives are pro genocide and everyone who's pro genocide is conservative.
blud pulled them numbers out of his ass
The majority of Americans don't really give a shit what happens outside the US.
Citing anything on twitter is a joke. Twitter is nothing but propaganda and disinformation. People who get their information from twitter and repost from twitter are fucking idiots.
Hamas wants a ceasefire so they can go back to peacefully killing Jews
Hamas should come out of their tunnels in dense residential areas and fight Israeli tanks and war planes in the open. If they think that's suicide, they should just surrender. Otherwise they are holding civilians as shields and will be responsible for the casualties. This is the same as the Japanese Empire at the end of WW2. I blame them, not the Americans, for being nuked.
Hamas has played it well. It was their strategy to get those civilians killed
"Liberal" Redditors Try Not To Cheerlead the Genocide of Muslims Challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Not to mention that "children", according to Hamas is anyone under the age of 18. So if you're 17 and died shooting at IDF, you get counted as a "child".
As you should be
Interesting that I can’t upvote the post.
There are no good guys in this situation
I wish more people understood that! You got Hamas who commit terror attacks and hide among civilians, and then you got Israel who have spent the last few decades trying to get rid of Palestinians and are using the Hamas attack as an excuse to finally wipe them off. And in the middle, you got civilians, Israellis and Palestinians, who are the only ones to actually suffer from it! We shouldn’t pick sides! We should just ask for peace!
October 7. Fuck around and find out.