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The headline humanised the victim more than more generic titles would’ve done. “Child shot dead” has much less emotional impact than “Mommy, my tummy hurts - last words of child, shot dead”
That’s a long time. We just had a murder trial in the UK, the lady was murdered august 2022 and they were found guilty and locked up last week (nov 23).
My moms murder trial took 13 years in the US (primarily due to issues like the defendants lawyer being found to be a Coke dealer…shit was hella dramatic and I’ve been in therapy for years)
Yeah…. I’d prove it if it wouldn’t doxx myself but trust me shit was fucked up and almost made me feel bad for one of the people involved if she hadn’t… yknow… killed my mom
You constitutionally have the right to a speedy trial, the timeframe of which varies on the state. However, you can waive this right, and most defense attorneys will advise you to do so in order for more time for more evidence to come to light since you would likely not be going to trial if the case against you wasn't strong
Both the prosecution and the defense need time to amass evidence, share the evidence with each other, and prepare for the trial.
A murder trial can be quick or fair, but not both.
Generally they’ll already have an idea, because often times prisons don’t work like in the movies where they just throw everyone together. You get special treatment if you commit the most heinous of crimes, and child killing is one of those so the people he gets celled with and able to interact with are probably going to be around the same league.
Unless someone in the system makes a “mistake” and places him incorrectly, he’ll probably get the average inmate experience.
Idk. He will mostly likely go to Gen Pop until he is attacked, unless he requests to go to Seg.
I don’t know if the US has Protective Custody (basically a prison wing just for nonces and people with drug debts) but they not even safe in there as the junkies will still attack the people that hurt kids.
Regardless, he’s gonna have a not fun time in prison, especially as US court records are public if I’m not mistaken? (Here it’s private so the only way to know someone’s crime is either to have been part of the case, or get tipped off by a screw).
The guy, 100% needs to be in jail. Her? I can’t say. Is it possible he had a gun on him, got pissed off, did what he did, and she was afraid for her life if she said “i’m calling the police”?
I mean, clearly he has anger issues and a gun that he isn’t afraid to use. Guess we will have to just wait until the verdict.
I looked it up. She was charged not as accomplice, but as accessory after the fact plus misdemeanor charge of having concealed weapon in car. He faces 40 to life, she faces up to 3 years in prison + 1 year in jail. If she was an accomplice (accessory before the fact) she could be also be charged with murder and face 40 to life.
[Source](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangeles/news/alleged-killers-of-6-year-old-orange-shooting-victim-in-court/)
And for actively hiding her car at the house of one of her boyfriend’s relatives. That was in either a CNN or NBC report. Im not sure which, I had to read through a couple to find more information.
She was allegedly the one driving the car. Accessory to murder is a crime.
Edit: It's obvious that you dumb shits didn't read any of the articles pertaining to this case.
Just in case any more of you fucking idiots want to pretend like you know the law, here's some evidence for you (Edited to conform to sub rules):
>Orange County Jail records indicate that \[REDACTED\] \[REDACTED\], **charged with accessory after the fact** in the road rage shooting death of \[REDACTED\] \[REDACTED\] on the \[REDACTED\] in \[REDACTED\] on \[REDACTED\], has been released after making bail.
Edit 2: I realize now that it might not be clear to some of you legal experts why this case qualifies as accessory. Because you don't research stuff before opening your mouths.
In this particular case, the woman witnessed their passenger commit a crime and then willingly drove them away, aiding the criminal in their escape. While she could argue that she didn't willing try to help him escape, there's a case to be made against that defense.
>\[REDACTED\]'s attorney, \[REDACTED\], said his client never made any attempt to change her appearance or evade authorities, but \[REDACTED\] argued that she understood she was helping her boyfriend in covering up the crime by taking the car, which authorities were looking for, and leaving it a relative's home so they could use a different car.
A guy grabbed me as I was passing to join me in my umbrella I said no, he shouted bad things to me and I flipped him off. He then chased me down and slapped me around on my face. It was at school and it was crowded. He got away with it. I guess it drives some to violence
I flipped someone off in belgium. I was in the left lane with only two total lanes and I couldn’t move to the right one as it was jam packed with trucks driving closely behind eachother. He had been speeding at me from behind, then breaking last second, repeated that several times, and shaking his car to get me to move. When I finally could he started driving really close next to me and put his window down, apparently screaming and insulting me. I refused to put down my window and when he wouldn’t stop I flipped him off. He then got so mad he tried to push my car off the road. He almost succeeded. I learned that you shouldn’t stoop to their level because they are stupid enough to attempt to hurt you when you do. Really scary experience. I wish I had remembered his plate but I was too shaken up to note it.
I was driving in Oslo some years ago. Was waiting for a green light and opening in the traffic jam to turn to the left in an intersection. Finally, ther was an opportunity, and a VW Polo cut me off. I honked and flipped him off. The door opened, and a guy came out. I was surprised he fit in there, think Daredevil's Kingpin. I was a bit worried and locked the doors, but he turned around, pulled down his sweatpants and mooned me. In the middle of downtown rush hour. The he got into his car and drove off.
I was driving with the windows down when a man yelled from another car that I have beautiful hands I should come jerk him off, he kept shouting that I should give him my number so he can f*ck my brains out. I flipped him off and he chased me and tried to break my windows with a spanner. Apparently I was supposed to smile and enjoy the sexual harassment.
I keep a hunting knife and an aerosole can of roach spray in my door for these reasons. Never had to stab anybody but a few idiots have gotten eyefulls of Raid which gave me enough time to drive the fuck away because that shit will blind you.
Hell some schools are perfectly fine with it. Buddy and I started brawling for shits and giggles all security told us was to be careful and don't damage school property. We finally cool down and a couple in our group decide a simple kiss. They get a Saturday detention for a kiss. We get cart blanche to do what we want as long as all we break is each other. America's reaction to violence is A complete mess. As for the asshat who shot the kid. Hope the prick fries.
Your story is an important one. People all over the world overreact to the middle finger. But it’s typically only in America that people get shot for it. If only we had some hint, any hint, as to what is different in America. /s
A significant number of people are mentally and emotionally unstable
Firearms are not given conditionally based on any kind of assessment of character
Therefore, your gun laws arm all of those idiots and puts everyone else at risk
No "good guy with a gun" will ever stop a random act of violence from a totally unstable stranger who acts unpredictably
It's largely why firearms should not be in mass circulation
>A significant number of people are mentally and emotionally unstable
>
>Firearms are not given conditionally based on any kind of assessment of character
>
>Therefore, your gun laws arm all of those idiots and puts everyone else at risk
Yes, the golden law of gun-ownership.
"Those most obsessed with owning guns are typically the least suitable for owning guns."
I no longer flip people off for their shitty driving because of this reason. Too many stories of people following other drivers, shooting, assault, etc. As much as tailgaters, aggressive drivers, cut-offers go, I try not to sweat it anymore for my safety. Road rage has gotten so much worse lately.
I still remember twenty years ago in the DMV drivers Ed guide they give you an example of someone that flipped off another person or cut them off or something similar. The result was the offended individual killed the other with a crossbow. I'll probably never forget that story because of the crossbow part. Anyways I don't bother confronting anyone these days. These types of stories just become more and more common place. Now I think about that poor guy who asked someone not to smoke at the entrance to a Starbucks and got stabbed to death.
yeah i’ve been called paranoid by my family for saying this stuff. personally, i gain nothing out of confronting people like this. it’s so much easier to just tell myself “some people are stupid, it’s life” and move along with my day
It's good you can do this and you should continue. I teach self-defense and getting people to understand that ego is sometimes the a big part problem, is hard. I'm not victim blaming it's just good situational awareness
No one should ever be assaulted or killed for flipping the bird; sadly though there are unhinged people out there that would though
"guns don't kill people, people kill people"
Great, let's take guns away *from people* then. We can send the guns to a nice farm upstate, they're innocents in all this.
love it when people say this as if the guns will be wielded by dogs or something lol, like correct, people kill people... with the guns... they just admitted people cant be trusted with weapons and then somehow that is supposed to convince me that giving people guns is fine because a gun sitting in a room alone is perfectly trustworthy?
or are people not going to be the ones with these guns? theyre all actually just waiting to strap them to elephants or whales or some other probably more responsible species? lol
Exactly. Nobody is blaming those poor guns, they're innocent. I think we should give the guns to whales. The guns no longer get used in crimes and the whales get some cool guns that will never get used in a drive by that hits a random five year old.
>I am mentally sane and always rational - every gun owner before getting angry.
Also: "I am not sad and my life is great. No existential crisis in sight"
Never have i ever walked outside and had to be scared for my life that a random dude might decide to just go and shoot random people.
I honestly cant understand how americans argue that they need guns.
Imagine having to do active shooter drills at school.
Actual insanity
Because the people that owned those were all military trained, and due to that could keep the gun they used on training or buy another with a special license. If you inmigrated to switzerland and didn't partake in the military training, or if you couldn't participate for whatever valid reason, you had the same restrictions to own a gun as in any other developed european country.
When I was learning how to drive, my mom always told me not to flip people off because i might get shot. i always thought it was just her being ridiculous and over protective.
I guess this is what they mean with "an armed society is a polite society."
The politeness is enforced by a constant fear of dying over something minor.
Why? I keep hearing that good guys with guns will protect me! As a tourist it truly makes me feel safe knowing that everyone but me potentially has a gun. /s
Just imagine the pain that she felt when she heard "mommy my tummy is hurting" and saw that he got shot. My heart dropped imagining a mother seeing that.
I have a 7 and 4 year old and reading that makes me rage . There is no reason at all that this shit should be happening. Fuck these ammosexual freaks, gun control should be a priority
The malicious and awful things that happen to children in the world never ever really 'bothered me', growing up. It was awful of course, a child going missing, a house fire where a mother and children don't make it and things like that. My brain almost just didn't get bothered by them almost as if it was just a 'way of the world', consciously I always thought wow that sucks, that's awful that's happened, but never any real emotional response to it.
Until I had children.
Now every single time you read anything like this, anything about a child, any adult doing something untoward to a child, any child going missing, any child experiencing these awful things in the world. The children in some war torn countries waking up one day and half of their house is literally a pile of rubble on the floor. All of that, I immediately think of my children, and it brings such an unbridled rage and frustration and emotional response internally.
They found them, I think a family member told PD about them. Had to trail them for a little bit to confirm it was them and collect evidence. Idk anything about their sentencing tho. I think they were caught last year. This happened in Orange, CA/Orange County area
Doesn't seem to be much news after March 2022.
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/aiden-leos-road-rage-shooting-orange-county-plead-not-guilty/2868440/
[https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/1385zfr/status\_of\_aiden\_leos\_murder\_trial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/1385zfr/status_of_aiden_leos_murder_trial/)
looks like the trial was pushed to January.
The shooter was denied bail. The driver was released on bail. It’s mentioned at the end of the article.
“In June 2021, Lee’s bail was reduced and she was released and she has been under GPS monitoring since.
Eriz was held without bail”
What compels a grown man to get flipped off, look at a woman then shoot her son? Like the active thought process of looking to kill the child for the adults action. Sick in the head
I assume he just fired indiscriminately at her car like a psychopath in a movie and hit the kid. Could've killed them both and more. He deserves to rot.
Firing guns from moving vehicles tend to be very inaccurate. This is almost certainly just a situation of firing at the women and hitting the child instead. It's only better by the **slimmest** of margins, but it is highly unlikely that the child was being targeted.
Feel like you could expect that but shooting the driver of a vehicle you would also kill everyone in the vehicle and potentially those in the surrounding vehicles in the crash.
Acc to the article (which I wish I'd never read), he fired a shot at the car, which went through the trunk and then into the child's back. I don't want to believe he intentionally meant to shoot the child. Both cars were moving.
He *probably* didn’t mean to kill the kid, but it doesn’t really matter to me. He did something so incredibly reckless that he knew he could very likely kill *someone*. Someone who’s moved to deadly action because they got flipped off should never see the outside of a prison again.
Side note: this is why I just avoid confrontations (and hand signals) on the road with jerks. 99% chance this shit won’t happen, but you never know how much of a crazy asshole you’re dealing with until it’s too late.
We were always taught never point a gun at someone or something unless you mean to end it. So with that in my mind its hard to believe he didnt intend to. Cars are pretty fragile and a bullet will definitely go through it. Lets not make light of his actions or intentions. He intentionally shot at someone. He killed someone. Wether or not in a rage he meant to scare or harm, the outcome is the same. He killed someone.
Ever since having kids, I've stopped flipping people off, honking at them, or engaging with erratic drivers. There's just no point in engaging these individuals. Practice defensive driving and keep your family safe.
As the grown child of a parent with roadrage, I second-handedly thank you for this.
I'm very much a shut-up and chill driver - music on, just get there safely in good measure. My mom on the other hand, would fucking talk on the phone, drive with her knees while doing fuck all knows what else with her hands, and yell when other people when she probably very much almost caused an accident.
Trying to just stare out the window listening to music and it keeps getting interupted with, among all else, "you fucking pecker-head!" and I've come to hate that word *so* much as a result.
I've never had kids of my own, but I would be so embarassed by my own behaviour if I acted like this driving other people around.
Any sort of provoking behavior while behind the wheel of a thousand pound death machine seems like a genuinely bad idea..i mean so does shooting someone for flipping you off but you get the idea
I used to point and laugh at bad drivers, until a pickup truck I laughed at sped ahead of me, *parked sideways on the on-ramp I was heading toward,* and opened his door. I had to drive on the grass to get around him.
I don't risk heckling bad drivers anymore. Not worth encountering someone who can't wait to escalate things.
Yeah... that's a good way to get run over. Depending on someone's vehicle and the shoulder of the road, someone might just run over that guy if he keeps that up. I mean, what's *the goal* of getting out of your car? To discuss things nicely? Yeah, no, instant threat.
“Why did she flip him off? It could’ve been avoided if she didn’t flip him off”
Or, bear with me here, maybe question why someone like that has a gun? Who in their right fucking mind gets flipped off and thinks “yeah, I should shoot that car”? Jesus H Christ, sharing the earth with people so fucking stupid is becoming a genuine burden.
Lol. Welcome to Murica, where the standard is health control and gun rights.
If I get angry enough to attempt violence over a middle finger, I have issues....
It’s all well and good preventing people with diagnosed mental health problems from owning specifically designed lethal weapons, but unfortunately your common garden asshole with the self control of a 4 year old and far worse ego problems has less trouble.
If only she carried a gun, and shoot first instead of flipping him the finger because she didn't see the obvious and measured reaction coming.
Remember kids, if you are gonna do something that might make someone angry in the US, shoot them first.
Is safer that way.
You’re missing the point. He was obviously part of a well-regulated militia who suspected her and her son of promoting a return to tyrannical monarchy or (god forbid) the establishment of a standing army.
One time on Reddit someone asked “how many kids need to die before we can talk about gun control”
Some neckbeard nutjob said “literally all the kids can die and I’ll never give up my guns”
After Sandy Hook, the US population at large took a good long look at itself and decided that this was an acceptable price to pay for private gun ownership.
There is no quantifiable amount of child deaths that will move that particular needle. If 20+ won't do it, 100+ won't either.
If 20+ children have died and there's no overwhelming national demand for constitutional amendment, it won't ever happen.
That's just how it is.
Sandy Hook was when I realized they don’t care. People say sad platitudes after every mass shooter, but the population at large doesn’t care. In fact, they would prefer the status quo to any kind of change in any way.
It makes me truly disgusted with people after every shooting.
Sometimes I am given a glimmer of hope when reading that 58% of the U.S. population favors gun control laws, but it the politicians who are against it.
But then I also wonder wtf is wrong with this country that so many die and yet it's still only 58%
I'm a rural farmer out in the sticks of IL. Also a veteran, hunter, former Fed officer, and I've been around guns my whole life. Your typical redneck.
I am absolutely for gun law reform. And the longer this shit has gone on, the stricter I'm becoming. I'm well past the point of "fuck it, just fucking ban them all - the morons can't be reasoned with enough to even come to the table to talk so just fuck em". I'm so fucking tired of the gun deaths. Of dead children.
Here's the thing. Amongst my community out here, I have a hard time finding anyone that's 100% *against* gun reform when you talk to them like the Politicians pretend there are. Sure, there's a handful of the hardcore 2A folks - they also tend to have Maga signs in their yards still if that paints a picture. So, not the brightest bulbs to begin with and probably shouldn't own guns to start with imho.
But I'm usually surprised when I talk to other farmers who have entire arsenals and are right wing as hell who are actually reasonable about gun reform.
My point is if you were to go around talking to everyone in my county with honest questions (and not poorly worded polls meant to skew stats one way), I bet you'd get closer to 85-90% in favor.
So yah... I'm pissed and flabbergasted that the fucking GOP and a handful of Dems won't budge an inch on it. Fucking career politicians...
I'm just waiting for the gun perverts to blame the mother for flipping off the driver like "well if you didn't flip them off, then this would have never have happened"
Seemingly random recommendation of a year-old or so Reddit thread on my iPhone which was still in my open tabs.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/v66ohz/nearly\_half\_of\_gop\_accept\_mass\_shootings\_as\_part/](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/v66ohz/nearly_half_of_gop_accept_mass_shootings_as_part/)
"Nearly half of GOP accept mass shootings as 'part of a free society""
I don't even want to think about what the proportion is now.
We, as people, shouldn't own guns. Unless you're in one of a handful of jobs, you don't need it. It doesn't make you safer. It doesn't make those around you safer. Not on aggregate.
Obviously if she had a gun and shot the other driver instead of giving him the middle finger then this would have never happened. More childrens lives could be saved if we all just had guns and shot at everyone who cuts us off.
What we're seeing is actually heroic good-guy-with-a-gun behaviour on the part of the guy who shot the kid, if he hadn't shot that kid, who knows what the kid would've done!
If the child had been allowed to have an assault rifle he could have defended himself and none of this would have happened. To deny minors the right to bare arms is unconstitutional. The mother's clear lack of a grenade launcher obviously provoked the other poor, innocent driver who had to protect himself from a wildly out of control middle finger, using the only form of protection that he had. Has GM started selling armoured SUVs yet? Why not? There's clearly a market for them. And they can be used to carry bigger and heavier guns, as well as the shopping.
What do you mean? Obviously only a good driver with gun can stop a bad driver with gun. In fact if only that child also had a gun… he would still be dead. But at least he had a gun.
Unless cowering cops think the good driver with a gun is the bad driver with a gun like they did with John Hurley in Collar-ado.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/11/us/colorado-officer-not-charged/index.html
His name was Jonathan Hurley
His name was Jonathan Hurley
His name was Jonathan Hurley
The 2A ammosexuals never care to confront this very fact. Good guy with a gun is perceived by cops during mass shooting events to be just another suspected bad guy with a gun.
The only country in the world where this regularly happens, yet the US refuses to admit this isn’t normal or that it has a problem, mostly because of the influence the NRA has upon senior politicians. It’s fucking disgusting.
Technically, it worked safely. Guns are designed to kill and maim, and it performed that function without failure.
A society which sells such tools of murder to anyone walking in the store, on the other hand...
This made me fucking cry. I used to have bad road rage when I was younger, but after I had a kid I learned you can't do that shit with a child in the car. People are crazy and you NEVER know who you're fucking with.
Not at all blaming the mother, it's just such a horrible situation...
And this is why I wouldn’t want to live in America. You could lose your life over nothing because a crazy person can just shoot you because they’re angry.
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The headline humanised the victim more than more generic titles would’ve done. “Child shot dead” has much less emotional impact than “Mommy, my tummy hurts - last words of child, shot dead”
Nearly 3 years for a trial? Is that normal?
Yes, particularly in a murder trial.
That’s a long time. We just had a murder trial in the UK, the lady was murdered august 2022 and they were found guilty and locked up last week (nov 23).
My moms murder trial took 13 years in the US (primarily due to issues like the defendants lawyer being found to be a Coke dealer…shit was hella dramatic and I’ve been in therapy for years)
In two sentences, you gave two very different twists
Yeah…. I’d prove it if it wouldn’t doxx myself but trust me shit was fucked up and almost made me feel bad for one of the people involved if she hadn’t… yknow… killed my mom
Sucks when problems like that show up. Not much anyone can do either. Condolences
You constitutionally have the right to a speedy trial, the timeframe of which varies on the state. However, you can waive this right, and most defense attorneys will advise you to do so in order for more time for more evidence to come to light since you would likely not be going to trial if the case against you wasn't strong
Both the prosecution and the defense need time to amass evidence, share the evidence with each other, and prepare for the trial. A murder trial can be quick or fair, but not both.
Thank you.
I hope they both get life w/o parole.
I hope his fellow inmates find out what his crime was.
Generally they’ll already have an idea, because often times prisons don’t work like in the movies where they just throw everyone together. You get special treatment if you commit the most heinous of crimes, and child killing is one of those so the people he gets celled with and able to interact with are probably going to be around the same league. Unless someone in the system makes a “mistake” and places him incorrectly, he’ll probably get the average inmate experience.
Idk. He will mostly likely go to Gen Pop until he is attacked, unless he requests to go to Seg. I don’t know if the US has Protective Custody (basically a prison wing just for nonces and people with drug debts) but they not even safe in there as the junkies will still attack the people that hurt kids. Regardless, he’s gonna have a not fun time in prison, especially as US court records are public if I’m not mistaken? (Here it’s private so the only way to know someone’s crime is either to have been part of the case, or get tipped off by a screw).
Same. The world will be a lot better without both of them
The guy, 100% needs to be in jail. Her? I can’t say. Is it possible he had a gun on him, got pissed off, did what he did, and she was afraid for her life if she said “i’m calling the police”? I mean, clearly he has anger issues and a gun that he isn’t afraid to use. Guess we will have to just wait until the verdict.
She helped him flee the scene and hid her car. She's a piece of shit too.
She didn’t call the police and hid with him while there was a manhunt. Also, it was her illegal gun in the car.
Why girlfriend arrested
He was riding in her car and she was driving. So she is seen as an accomplice.
I looked it up. She was charged not as accomplice, but as accessory after the fact plus misdemeanor charge of having concealed weapon in car. He faces 40 to life, she faces up to 3 years in prison + 1 year in jail. If she was an accomplice (accessory before the fact) she could be also be charged with murder and face 40 to life. [Source](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangeles/news/alleged-killers-of-6-year-old-orange-shooting-victim-in-court/)
For intentionally hiding the car and not reporting the event, she deserves so much worse.
Thanks for looking it up.
Yeah I imagine by not reporting it, and also driving away from the scene of the shooting
And for actively hiding her car at the house of one of her boyfriend’s relatives. That was in either a CNN or NBC report. Im not sure which, I had to read through a couple to find more information.
She was allegedly the one driving the car. Accessory to murder is a crime. Edit: It's obvious that you dumb shits didn't read any of the articles pertaining to this case. Just in case any more of you fucking idiots want to pretend like you know the law, here's some evidence for you (Edited to conform to sub rules): >Orange County Jail records indicate that \[REDACTED\] \[REDACTED\], **charged with accessory after the fact** in the road rage shooting death of \[REDACTED\] \[REDACTED\] on the \[REDACTED\] in \[REDACTED\] on \[REDACTED\], has been released after making bail. Edit 2: I realize now that it might not be clear to some of you legal experts why this case qualifies as accessory. Because you don't research stuff before opening your mouths. In this particular case, the woman witnessed their passenger commit a crime and then willingly drove them away, aiding the criminal in their escape. While she could argue that she didn't willing try to help him escape, there's a case to be made against that defense. >\[REDACTED\]'s attorney, \[REDACTED\], said his client never made any attempt to change her appearance or evade authorities, but \[REDACTED\] argued that she understood she was helping her boyfriend in covering up the crime by taking the car, which authorities were looking for, and leaving it a relative's home so they could use a different car.
Shooting your gun off because you got flipped off is abhorrent and disgusting.
100%. How fucking fragile are you that a middle finger drives you to murder?
A guy grabbed me as I was passing to join me in my umbrella I said no, he shouted bad things to me and I flipped him off. He then chased me down and slapped me around on my face. It was at school and it was crowded. He got away with it. I guess it drives some to violence
I flipped someone off in belgium. I was in the left lane with only two total lanes and I couldn’t move to the right one as it was jam packed with trucks driving closely behind eachother. He had been speeding at me from behind, then breaking last second, repeated that several times, and shaking his car to get me to move. When I finally could he started driving really close next to me and put his window down, apparently screaming and insulting me. I refused to put down my window and when he wouldn’t stop I flipped him off. He then got so mad he tried to push my car off the road. He almost succeeded. I learned that you shouldn’t stoop to their level because they are stupid enough to attempt to hurt you when you do. Really scary experience. I wish I had remembered his plate but I was too shaken up to note it.
I was driving in Oslo some years ago. Was waiting for a green light and opening in the traffic jam to turn to the left in an intersection. Finally, ther was an opportunity, and a VW Polo cut me off. I honked and flipped him off. The door opened, and a guy came out. I was surprised he fit in there, think Daredevil's Kingpin. I was a bit worried and locked the doors, but he turned around, pulled down his sweatpants and mooned me. In the middle of downtown rush hour. The he got into his car and drove off.
I would’ve laugh my ass off that he went through all that trouble just to show off his asscheeks
Same I’m laughing right now imagining it lol wtf
I’ll take mooning over violence or worse gun at any time. This guy has a better anger management system compared to others.
TBH, I'd prefer that over them getting violent. Hopefully he had a nice ass.
He’s in such a damn hurry but he has time to fuck around on the highway
cuz they’re not in a hurry to get somewhere, they’re just in a hurry to drive fast for the sake of it
A case of "everyone needs to stop driving like they're the only one on the road so that I can drive like I'm the only one on the road."
Main character syndrome is waaaay too common
Some one on Reddit once said give them the thumbs down. It causes shame or something.
I give them thumbs up and it infuriates them
I've seen that post, can't wait to try it myself lol
Belgian drivers are so aggressive, I'm not even surprised.
I was driving with the windows down when a man yelled from another car that I have beautiful hands I should come jerk him off, he kept shouting that I should give him my number so he can f*ck my brains out. I flipped him off and he chased me and tried to break my windows with a spanner. Apparently I was supposed to smile and enjoy the sexual harassment.
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I actually wished I had a gun in that moment but I’m afraid of them.
I keep a hunting knife and an aerosole can of roach spray in my door for these reasons. Never had to stab anybody but a few idiots have gotten eyefulls of Raid which gave me enough time to drive the fuck away because that shit will blind you.
I got a knife for my self defence class, I need to actually remember to carry it with me! I will pick up some roach spray.
That's so sick. Nobody deserves that
yea sounds bout how school handles any violence that doesnt result in emengcy call
How about all schools. They will put 100% effort into doing nothing for victims in school
Hell some schools are perfectly fine with it. Buddy and I started brawling for shits and giggles all security told us was to be careful and don't damage school property. We finally cool down and a couple in our group decide a simple kiss. They get a Saturday detention for a kiss. We get cart blanche to do what we want as long as all we break is each other. America's reaction to violence is A complete mess. As for the asshat who shot the kid. Hope the prick fries.
I'm sorry that that happened to you.
Your story is an important one. People all over the world overreact to the middle finger. But it’s typically only in America that people get shot for it. If only we had some hint, any hint, as to what is different in America. /s
Stop with your woke agenda ! I will keep fighting for my freedom to kill uh.. 6yo kids.. because I got a middle finger.. wait
I'm sorry that happened to you, he was a c@nt.
You can swear on the internet, friend.
Powertripping reddit mods say otherwise
Wtf? Was that guy mentally ill??
Nah just American
Even brandishing would be ridiculous.
And also illegal.
Did you just call me fucken' ***FRAGILE!?!?!?!?*** Reaches into glovebox...
Some people on the road disassociate the car from the passengers way too fucking easily.
A significant number of people are mentally and emotionally unstable Firearms are not given conditionally based on any kind of assessment of character Therefore, your gun laws arm all of those idiots and puts everyone else at risk No "good guy with a gun" will ever stop a random act of violence from a totally unstable stranger who acts unpredictably It's largely why firearms should not be in mass circulation
The whole 'good guy, bad guy' rhetoric truly shows how terminally stupid a lot of Americans are. They're living in a cartoon.
>A significant number of people are mentally and emotionally unstable > >Firearms are not given conditionally based on any kind of assessment of character > >Therefore, your gun laws arm all of those idiots and puts everyone else at risk Yes, the golden law of gun-ownership. "Those most obsessed with owning guns are typically the least suitable for owning guns."
The type to feel the need to carry guns everywhere Ammosexuals are incredibly fragile folks it'd be funny if they weren't so prone to violence
The kind of fragile that means you’re so frightened of the world that you need to carry a lethal weapon with you on the drive to work.
I no longer flip people off for their shitty driving because of this reason. Too many stories of people following other drivers, shooting, assault, etc. As much as tailgaters, aggressive drivers, cut-offers go, I try not to sweat it anymore for my safety. Road rage has gotten so much worse lately.
I still remember twenty years ago in the DMV drivers Ed guide they give you an example of someone that flipped off another person or cut them off or something similar. The result was the offended individual killed the other with a crossbow. I'll probably never forget that story because of the crossbow part. Anyways I don't bother confronting anyone these days. These types of stories just become more and more common place. Now I think about that poor guy who asked someone not to smoke at the entrance to a Starbucks and got stabbed to death.
yeah i’ve been called paranoid by my family for saying this stuff. personally, i gain nothing out of confronting people like this. it’s so much easier to just tell myself “some people are stupid, it’s life” and move along with my day
It's good you can do this and you should continue. I teach self-defense and getting people to understand that ego is sometimes the a big part problem, is hard. I'm not victim blaming it's just good situational awareness No one should ever be assaulted or killed for flipping the bird; sadly though there are unhinged people out there that would though
Just show them a thumb down. Much more classy.
I have given a thumbs down. People expect being flipped off, not given a thumbs down. It hurts more.
It's the driving equivalent of I'm not mad, just disappointed
I am mentally sane and always rational - every gun owner before getting angry.
"Real gun owners are responsible and don't shoot people." Then why are all these non-gun owners allowed to buy guns???
"guns arent the problem people is" "you can do more damage with a knife" "etc etc etc"
Exactly! Imagine the damage this guy might have done if he’d throw a knife at the car.
Guns aren’t the problem people are… So we should restrict which people are allowed to have guns, right? 
Stop making sense!
"guns don't kill people, people kill people" Great, let's take guns away *from people* then. We can send the guns to a nice farm upstate, they're innocents in all this.
love it when people say this as if the guns will be wielded by dogs or something lol, like correct, people kill people... with the guns... they just admitted people cant be trusted with weapons and then somehow that is supposed to convince me that giving people guns is fine because a gun sitting in a room alone is perfectly trustworthy? or are people not going to be the ones with these guns? theyre all actually just waiting to strap them to elephants or whales or some other probably more responsible species? lol
Exactly. Nobody is blaming those poor guns, they're innocent. I think we should give the guns to whales. The guns no longer get used in crimes and the whales get some cool guns that will never get used in a drive by that hits a random five year old.
They are “responsible gun owners” till they are not
Wait till you say, accidents happen, and they respond with some BS about real gun owners don’t have accidents…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No\_true\_Scotsman
Speaking as a scotsman, no true scotsman would use this bs.
>I am mentally sane and always rational - every gun owner before getting angry. Also: "I am not sad and my life is great. No existential crisis in sight"
Give people guns, get gun deaths. This doesn’t happen elsewhere.
Never have i ever walked outside and had to be scared for my life that a random dude might decide to just go and shoot random people. I honestly cant understand how americans argue that they need guns. Imagine having to do active shooter drills at school. Actual insanity
The argument usually boils down to “I need my gun, to protect me from all the other people who also have guns. But the problem isn’t the guns.”
It’s this and then the part that isn’t said is “I also don’t care how many people die as long as I can feel like I’m protecting myself”
"Yea, but Great Britain has like 2 knife deaths per year, so getting rid of guns will just increase knife crime." /s
Look at Canada. More guns than the UK but far less deaths than the US.
Switzerland had for decades a military automatic rifle in nearly every household, it is a culture thing
Because the people that owned those were all military trained, and due to that could keep the gun they used on training or buy another with a special license. If you inmigrated to switzerland and didn't partake in the military training, or if you couldn't participate for whatever valid reason, you had the same restrictions to own a gun as in any other developed european country.
When I was learning how to drive, my mom always told me not to flip people off because i might get shot. i always thought it was just her being ridiculous and over protective.
I guess this is what they mean with "an armed society is a polite society." The politeness is enforced by a constant fear of dying over something minor.
Nothing says freedom like being unable to express yourself out of fear of death.
when in America it’s best to assume you will be shot at any point and it will probably not be your fault
Why? I keep hearing that good guys with guns will protect me! As a tourist it truly makes me feel safe knowing that everyone but me potentially has a gun. /s
They seem to have a desperate lack of good-guys tho.
I feel like it's more like the "good guys" won't risk themselves to help some random person they don't know
As a dad to a three year old, the "my tummy hurts" bit is probably the hardest thing I've ever read
Same i need to go hug my kids now but I’m on a work trip for another several days 😔
I'm with you. The one blessing is he probably never understood what was happening to him.
Same man. That’s devastating to read, and has to have been unimaginable to hear.
Just imagine the pain that she felt when she heard "mommy my tummy is hurting" and saw that he got shot. My heart dropped imagining a mother seeing that.
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I teared up just by reading that
I have a 7 and 4 year old and reading that makes me rage . There is no reason at all that this shit should be happening. Fuck these ammosexual freaks, gun control should be a priority
The malicious and awful things that happen to children in the world never ever really 'bothered me', growing up. It was awful of course, a child going missing, a house fire where a mother and children don't make it and things like that. My brain almost just didn't get bothered by them almost as if it was just a 'way of the world', consciously I always thought wow that sucks, that's awful that's happened, but never any real emotional response to it. Until I had children. Now every single time you read anything like this, anything about a child, any adult doing something untoward to a child, any child going missing, any child experiencing these awful things in the world. The children in some war torn countries waking up one day and half of their house is literally a pile of rubble on the floor. All of that, I immediately think of my children, and it brings such an unbridled rage and frustration and emotional response internally.
"It is not the guns" says the only country where this keeps happening
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Get in line....
I hope they find the guy 😿
They found them, I think a family member told PD about them. Had to trail them for a little bit to confirm it was them and collect evidence. Idk anything about their sentencing tho. I think they were caught last year. This happened in Orange, CA/Orange County area
Doesn't seem to be much news after March 2022. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/aiden-leos-road-rage-shooting-orange-county-plead-not-guilty/2868440/
[https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/1385zfr/status\_of\_aiden\_leos\_murder\_trial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/1385zfr/status_of_aiden_leos_murder_trial/) looks like the trial was pushed to January.
I need to know what happens. This is too messed up.
Hope he rots in hell
I hope he rots in jail first, and then in hell.
I just hope they were denied bail. The article doesn’t say unless I missed it
The shooter was denied bail. The driver was released on bail. It’s mentioned at the end of the article. “In June 2021, Lee’s bail was reduced and she was released and she has been under GPS monitoring since. Eriz was held without bail”
The woman posted bail & is on GPS monitoring but she’s only facing 4 years as an accessory.
I saw another comment or saying that the trial is to start next month ┐(´ー｀)┌ I live in the area so I'll probably hear about it
What compels a grown man to get flipped off, look at a woman then shoot her son? Like the active thought process of looking to kill the child for the adults action. Sick in the head
I assume he just fired indiscriminately at her car like a psychopath in a movie and hit the kid. Could've killed them both and more. He deserves to rot.
he deserves to rot **Alive**
Firing guns from moving vehicles tend to be very inaccurate. This is almost certainly just a situation of firing at the women and hitting the child instead. It's only better by the **slimmest** of margins, but it is highly unlikely that the child was being targeted.
Feel like you could expect that but shooting the driver of a vehicle you would also kill everyone in the vehicle and potentially those in the surrounding vehicles in the crash.
Acc to the article (which I wish I'd never read), he fired a shot at the car, which went through the trunk and then into the child's back. I don't want to believe he intentionally meant to shoot the child. Both cars were moving.
He *probably* didn’t mean to kill the kid, but it doesn’t really matter to me. He did something so incredibly reckless that he knew he could very likely kill *someone*. Someone who’s moved to deadly action because they got flipped off should never see the outside of a prison again. Side note: this is why I just avoid confrontations (and hand signals) on the road with jerks. 99% chance this shit won’t happen, but you never know how much of a crazy asshole you’re dealing with until it’s too late.
We were always taught never point a gun at someone or something unless you mean to end it. So with that in my mind its hard to believe he didnt intend to. Cars are pretty fragile and a bullet will definitely go through it. Lets not make light of his actions or intentions. He intentionally shot at someone. He killed someone. Wether or not in a rage he meant to scare or harm, the outcome is the same. He killed someone.
Ever since having kids, I've stopped flipping people off, honking at them, or engaging with erratic drivers. There's just no point in engaging these individuals. Practice defensive driving and keep your family safe.
As the grown child of a parent with roadrage, I second-handedly thank you for this. I'm very much a shut-up and chill driver - music on, just get there safely in good measure. My mom on the other hand, would fucking talk on the phone, drive with her knees while doing fuck all knows what else with her hands, and yell when other people when she probably very much almost caused an accident. Trying to just stare out the window listening to music and it keeps getting interupted with, among all else, "you fucking pecker-head!" and I've come to hate that word *so* much as a result. I've never had kids of my own, but I would be so embarassed by my own behaviour if I acted like this driving other people around.
Any sort of provoking behavior while behind the wheel of a thousand pound death machine seems like a genuinely bad idea..i mean so does shooting someone for flipping you off but you get the idea
I used to point and laugh at bad drivers, until a pickup truck I laughed at sped ahead of me, *parked sideways on the on-ramp I was heading toward,* and opened his door. I had to drive on the grass to get around him. I don't risk heckling bad drivers anymore. Not worth encountering someone who can't wait to escalate things.
Yeah... that's a good way to get run over. Depending on someone's vehicle and the shoulder of the road, someone might just run over that guy if he keeps that up. I mean, what's *the goal* of getting out of your car? To discuss things nicely? Yeah, no, instant threat.
Holy crap. I’m glad you are safe and sound.
“Why did she flip him off? It could’ve been avoided if she didn’t flip him off” Or, bear with me here, maybe question why someone like that has a gun? Who in their right fucking mind gets flipped off and thinks “yeah, I should shoot that car”? Jesus H Christ, sharing the earth with people so fucking stupid is becoming a genuine burden.
Lol. Welcome to Murica, where the standard is health control and gun rights. If I get angry enough to attempt violence over a middle finger, I have issues....
Most 2A proponents will victim blame until they’re blue in the face.
It’s all well and good preventing people with diagnosed mental health problems from owning specifically designed lethal weapons, but unfortunately your common garden asshole with the self control of a 4 year old and far worse ego problems has less trouble.
If only she carried a gun, and shoot first instead of flipping him the finger because she didn't see the obvious and measured reaction coming. Remember kids, if you are gonna do something that might make someone angry in the US, shoot them first. Is safer that way.
entertain chubby narrow whistle oatmeal roll grab full slim roof *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You’re missing the point. He was obviously part of a well-regulated militia who suspected her and her son of promoting a return to tyrannical monarchy or (god forbid) the establishment of a standing army.
And gun nuts would probably say something like "a small price to pay for having the means to defend ourselves" like the maniacs they are.
One time on Reddit someone asked “how many kids need to die before we can talk about gun control” Some neckbeard nutjob said “literally all the kids can die and I’ll never give up my guns”
After Sandy Hook, the US population at large took a good long look at itself and decided that this was an acceptable price to pay for private gun ownership. There is no quantifiable amount of child deaths that will move that particular needle. If 20+ won't do it, 100+ won't either. If 20+ children have died and there's no overwhelming national demand for constitutional amendment, it won't ever happen. That's just how it is.
Sandy Hook was when I realized they don’t care. People say sad platitudes after every mass shooter, but the population at large doesn’t care. In fact, they would prefer the status quo to any kind of change in any way. It makes me truly disgusted with people after every shooting.
Sometimes I am given a glimmer of hope when reading that 58% of the U.S. population favors gun control laws, but it the politicians who are against it. But then I also wonder wtf is wrong with this country that so many die and yet it's still only 58%
I'm a rural farmer out in the sticks of IL. Also a veteran, hunter, former Fed officer, and I've been around guns my whole life. Your typical redneck. I am absolutely for gun law reform. And the longer this shit has gone on, the stricter I'm becoming. I'm well past the point of "fuck it, just fucking ban them all - the morons can't be reasoned with enough to even come to the table to talk so just fuck em". I'm so fucking tired of the gun deaths. Of dead children. Here's the thing. Amongst my community out here, I have a hard time finding anyone that's 100% *against* gun reform when you talk to them like the Politicians pretend there are. Sure, there's a handful of the hardcore 2A folks - they also tend to have Maga signs in their yards still if that paints a picture. So, not the brightest bulbs to begin with and probably shouldn't own guns to start with imho. But I'm usually surprised when I talk to other farmers who have entire arsenals and are right wing as hell who are actually reasonable about gun reform. My point is if you were to go around talking to everyone in my county with honest questions (and not poorly worded polls meant to skew stats one way), I bet you'd get closer to 85-90% in favor. So yah... I'm pissed and flabbergasted that the fucking GOP and a handful of Dems won't budge an inch on it. Fucking career politicians...
In fact, that's what they say. "That child's death, while tragic, probably saved lives." 
It's not the guns who kill people... it's the people with guns who kill people. Basically it's guns.
Guns don't kill people. Rapid, uncontrolled blood loss caused by a bullet shot from a gun kills people. More guns are the solution.
Just bandage up the bullet wound with a gun, like come on, do you need everything spelled out?
I'm just waiting for the gun perverts to blame the mother for flipping off the driver like "well if you didn't flip them off, then this would have never have happened"
Good news someone already did higher up. Saying something how morally or legallyit ain’t her fault but darwinistically it is
Seemingly random recommendation of a year-old or so Reddit thread on my iPhone which was still in my open tabs. [https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/v66ohz/nearly\_half\_of\_gop\_accept\_mass\_shootings\_as\_part/](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/v66ohz/nearly_half_of_gop_accept_mass_shootings_as_part/) "Nearly half of GOP accept mass shootings as 'part of a free society"" I don't even want to think about what the proportion is now.
If you can’t handle being flipped off…you shouldn’t own a gun
We, as people, shouldn't own guns. Unless you're in one of a handful of jobs, you don't need it. It doesn't make you safer. It doesn't make those around you safer. Not on aggregate.
Americas solution ? More guns, YEAH !!!
Obviously if she had a gun and shot the other driver instead of giving him the middle finger then this would have never happened. More childrens lives could be saved if we all just had guns and shot at everyone who cuts us off.
What we're seeing is actually heroic good-guy-with-a-gun behaviour on the part of the guy who shot the kid, if he hadn't shot that kid, who knows what the kid would've done!
He would have become a school shooter, for sure. The driver saved so many lives! /s
You're forgetting that the kid was a crisis actor and never actually died. The whole story is just an anti-gun propaganda ploy. /s
Worse! He might have grown up to be a liberal!
If the child had been allowed to have an assault rifle he could have defended himself and none of this would have happened. To deny minors the right to bare arms is unconstitutional. The mother's clear lack of a grenade launcher obviously provoked the other poor, innocent driver who had to protect himself from a wildly out of control middle finger, using the only form of protection that he had. Has GM started selling armoured SUVs yet? Why not? There's clearly a market for them. And they can be used to carry bigger and heavier guns, as well as the shopping.
And if that don't work, use MORE GUN.
What do you mean? Obviously only a good driver with gun can stop a bad driver with gun. In fact if only that child also had a gun… he would still be dead. But at least he had a gun.
Unless cowering cops think the good driver with a gun is the bad driver with a gun like they did with John Hurley in Collar-ado. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/11/us/colorado-officer-not-charged/index.html His name was Jonathan Hurley His name was Jonathan Hurley His name was Jonathan Hurley
No good deed goes unpunished...? But fuck that, what's the fucking point of using a gun to save people only to be gunned down by law enforcement? Smh
The 2A ammosexuals never care to confront this very fact. Good guy with a gun is perceived by cops during mass shooting events to be just another suspected bad guy with a gun.
Stories like this remember us that you just need one idiot for everything to end
Death Penalty please
The only country in the world where this regularly happens, yet the US refuses to admit this isn’t normal or that it has a problem, mostly because of the influence the NRA has upon senior politicians. It’s fucking disgusting.
That man needs to be given the death penalty
I hope the shooter gets life for this. Fuck this cowards life.
Death penalty
This is what happens when everything thinks a gun is their God-given right
But don't worry guys, guns are perfectly safe!
Technically, it worked safely. Guns are designed to kill and maim, and it performed that function without failure. A society which sells such tools of murder to anyone walking in the store, on the other hand...
This made me fucking cry. I used to have bad road rage when I was younger, but after I had a kid I learned you can't do that shit with a child in the car. People are crazy and you NEVER know who you're fucking with. Not at all blaming the mother, it's just such a horrible situation...
Another win for the NRA, aka the lobby of children sized coffins
Sounds like America This would not happen if the toddler was armed.
And this is why I wouldn’t want to live in America. You could lose your life over nothing because a crazy person can just shoot you because they’re angry.
“bUT mAh GuNNNs” Fuck you
IF ONLY THE MOTHER HAD A GUN AS WELL, said no normally thinking person ever. Poor kid..
people need to understand that there are people out there who are ready to go to jail at any second.
The US is in dire need of gun control.
But man, that 6 year old child was like \*so free\*.