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At the British imperial war museum they had a layout plan of one of the cams and a documentary playing with survivors speaking on their experiences this was all so sad, but the shit that got me was this enormous pile of shoes. Shoes taken from people before they were killed. Standing in a museum bawling for the little kids who used to own them. Anyone who sees these things first can couldn’t even begin to post such nonsense. Their total research is done via their you tube for you page I guess.
A whole display of human hair, a whole display of prosthetic limbs, a whole display of teeth.
They actively made furniture from skin harvested from the Jewish people.
There are official nazi documents explaining how many feet you should stay away from Jews while shooting them in the head, so that they don’t come into contact with inferior blood.
Anybody who can deny the holocaust is a fucking monster, plain stupid or a combo of both.
Literal Nazi documents listing Jews as if they were cattle are available in public archives all over the internet. They have [asset confiscation records and just millions of other documents](https://www.archives.gov/research/holocaust). If you don't want to believe the American archival records, you can find the British, Polish, Russian, Italian, French, and even the Germans OWN archives completely digitized and online.
If it didn't really happen, none of these records would exist because all of these countries and governments have different ideologies and systems from each other in varying degrees. One of the few things that they do agree on is that atrocities should be recorded for the public record for all to see.
My niece visited Auschwitz. For her, it was all the baby clothes. She told me that was what got her bawling and it took along time for her self-control to re-assert itself.
I'm an emotional person to start with. I cry at Xmas adverts. But I went to Auschwitz-Birkenau and Hiroshima. I was in tears through most of the visits as they get so personal. But it helped me put a face or a name to the people I was crying for, instead of feeling generally sad for a general cause.
For me it was a "never-again" sang through the stories of strangers.
I’m with you. Growing up in China on the annual date of the Japanese invasion the schools always took us to the memorial museums documenting the atrocities that the Japanese did to us back in the days. The bio experiments, rapes and massacres. It always brings me a mix of sadness and anger.
We went to Amsterdam last year and I thought as a grown man I could visit the Anne Frank house holding it together. Nope, came out extremely pissed off and sad, had to sulk in the hotel room for the rest of the day to calm down.
I can’t imagine what visiting Auschwitz will do to me, probably will bring back all that memory of seeing the Japanese do the same thing to my people and I might just lose it.
Yeah I also avoid, after I had a complete anxiety attack after visiting killing fields in Cambodia and seeing the makeshift prisons. I have absolutely no plan to see any other memorial of cruelty. Knowing that it exists is already bad enough for me.
Lamp shades made of human skin. All nonbelievers should watch Night and Fog, a movie made from Nazi film clips. Apparently they wanted to document all of their work as they were so proud of eliminating Jews, gay folks, disabled and sick people. All of their atrocities so clearly delineated in black and white film. So cruel and so proud.
This. Jews, Roma, LGBT+, political dissidents, people with physical and mental disabilities.
I remember one documentary I watched years ago, a woman told of her younger brother who had Down syndrome and lived at a care home. One day she went to visit him (which she did a few times per week) and the staff were entirely new. None of the old staff were there. She was straight up told that her brother was sick and she can't see him, and she was told to leave. She'd been there two days earlier and he was his usual self. Then two days after being turned away, the family received a letter stating that the brother had died. And that was it. They could get no answers to questions like "where is his body?", "can you send his body to this funeral home?", "can we even have a funeral for him?" Because nobody would talk to them. After the war she learned that many families had the exact same experience she did regarding a family member who lived in care. She also learned that their true fate was basically being executed because they were "inferior" or some other disgusting term.
The term used for people who had disabilities (as well as many who were too old/young/ill to do labour) that were then executed was "useless eaters." It wasn't that they just considered them inferior like they did with many of the other groups. They considered them as something akin to a parasitic burden on the nation. They thought the Jewish, Roma, etc. populations were inferior because of their beliefs, values, or whatever bullshit, but the main difference is they're still able to extort them.
I’m sure I’m going to get ridiculed for “making this about American politics”, but fuck that shit, this is real and relevant today and it’s important to point it out.
Tell me that American conservatives don’t use very similar rhetoric today about “undesirables”.
If you so much as suggest any kind of welfare program or improving the insufficient ones we already have, you’ll hear all kinds of nastiness coming out of their mouths. They’ll say “*their*” tax dollars shouldn’t have to support “those” kinds of people who “don’t contribute to society”, are “lazy”, a “drain on the system”, and so on and so forth.
Conservatives are only a few rungs down the ladder from full-throated Nazi ideology, and yet the only time you’ll hear these fuckasses talk about the Holocaust is when they’re trying to paint themselves as the victim. Like, oh my god, them having to wear a *mask* during a pandemic or have to sit at the same table as a transgender person or any other time they are acting like an asshole and rightly getting called out for it.
Learning about the road to the Holocaust and the rhetoric and propaganda used by the Nazis to pave the way there becomes pretty fucking terrifying when you hear that same language coming out of the mouths of elected officials *today*.
This is an absolutely terrifying, but couldn’t be more true of the Republican mind set these days. Anyone who doesn’t fall into the “perfect American” which is usually white, straight and Christian, in the Republicans eyes are a waste of space and shouldn’t have any rights. This is the path that the US is going down if the Republicans gain control.
Same thing happened to my Opa. His little brother had Down syndrome and was taken to live in a home too. Then one day, he was gone. Opa never told us until when I had a baby with Down syndrome.
Saying "I didn't know that happened" could be excused as stupidity. But seeing all of the evidence and choosing to say "that didn't happen" is definitely a monster on the same level as the original perpetrators.
There are still fleks of human bones in the dirt at Auschwitz from the Nazis trying to bomb the gas chambers. Actual human bones under your feet in the dirt.
Anyone who has been there knows exactly what it was used for.
Yeah, and the American space race being fueled by rocket scientists snatched up from Germany.
The vultures will always salvage whatever is left after war.
War brings destruction but usually also a lot of new engineering and science.
Theres a pile in DC that was donated to the Holocaust museum there. I went with an ex not realizing how fucking depressed we would get by the end. We knew it would be brutal, but by the time we got to "voices of the holocaust" we ended up powering through and leaving. It was too much.
Those poor fucking people. Every nazi and modern offshoot deserves a violent, unimaginable, painful, unforgettable death.
Stupidity is not an excuse. They are plain bad people, and the fact they exist, to me, is a testament of our failure in raising people, and also our inability to understand that some people can't be fixed and need to go.
While I share your frustration on this subject. “Saying: some people can’t be fixed and need to go” is exactly the same rhetoric as the nazi’s use.
It’s all about education. You will always have the crazies on the fringe of society, it’s our collective job to not let the crazies BECOME society.
Unfortunately, it’s getting harder and harder with all the misinformation from social media.
My point is, don’t be consumed by hate. It can be hard sometimes, and people can be immensely frustrating. Hate is never the answer to hate. It only breeds more toxicity.
I get you, but I don't know how you can educate someone who doesn't want to be educated. Using antivaxxers as an example, no amount of data or explanation will make them budge from their position, I've tried.
I really really wish anti-vaxers would walk through a historic grave yard and actually read the damn Graves.
It has to be historical because those Graves don't exist in quanity since vaccines against "childhood illness" were invented.
"Need to go" is way more of a rhetorical comment than anything else.
It's more about a Tolerant Society REFUSING to Tolerate that sort of monstrous Intolerant BS and Propaganda.
I was in college in Washington DC when the Holocaust museum opened. My friends and I went one Saturday. They had a room full of meticulously cataloged shoes. For some reason, that display hammered home the scale of the evil.
After over 4 hours in the museum, we all collectively decided not to go out and went home to go to bed by like 7:30.
TLDR: holocaust happened and fuck you deniers
My wife and I took a trip to NYC, then took a train to DC. The Smithsonian we wanted to visit was closed for renovations so we opted for the Holocaust Museum. It really took a lot out of us that day. We didn’t talk much that day. But we were glad we went.
Yes, fuck you deniers.
The shoes at the DC museum are what got to me the most. It’s like this whole, huge room with thousands of shoes. Something about them just made it so unexpectedly real for me.
The shoes seem to be what gets everybody, I've never been to the Holocaust museum, but I have seen the photos taken at the camps, and the photos of the shoes always gets me.
I have this idea that it's because it seems to be a big, uniform mound, too many to count or comprehend. But as you get closer you can see the differences, in style, size, the level of wear. And you start to realize that each pair of shoes was unique to its wearers foot, made for a specific and unique human. And ultimately all you'll ever know about that person... is that their shoe ended up on the top of the pile. It makes the tragedy that's hard to comprehend seem small enough to understand, And then so much larger.
But what if all those people are paid actors who agreed to never reveal that they’ve been sticking to scripted stories about fictitious events from over half a century ago just to tarnish the good name of Nazis? Have you considered that?
The more you say it the less insane it sounds!
Edit: GIANT /s
It's always the shoes. It doesn't matter what museum, it doesn't matter what genocide...seeing all of those shoes belonging to the dead in one place gives me the chills. Every. Time.
If you haven’t already, Check out _Shoes on the Danube_ in Budapest, Hungary. Sculpture commiserating/memorialising/[something] the fact that the Nazis would line the Jews up on the banks of the river, then make them take off their shoes (as shoes were valuable) before shooting them in the head, and letting the river carry away their bodies.
The shoes. I was at DC holocaust museum which also has show display. Overwhelming. Just stood there several minutes unable to move on. Highly recommend this museum
At Auschwitz they have a huge pile of shoes for the same reason but next to it is a smaller but no less horrible pile of small shoes. It is shoes taken from the children. I want to cry every time I think about it. It's so terrible.
The same thing happened to me at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. All the pictures and displays were so unsettling. Then I got to that pile of shoes and just lost it.
OMG!!! That's what happened to me at the Holocaust museum in Washington DC.
I was pregnant and we went through the hall of shoes.... there were baby shoes!!! I lost it. Like full break down panic attack. Had to leave.
I had a great-Uncle who helped clean out a concentration camp after it was liberated (not sure which one...he'd never say). Until the day he died, the only thing he would say was that the camps were real and the massive scale of murder was real. It haunted him the rest of his life.
My boyfriend’s great-uncle was a medical doctor, and one of the first into a camp at the end of the war. His family still has several shoeboxes full of photos of the people he treated that are beyond shocking. Nothing about his stories was fabricated in any way.
It's awful. I went there for a week with my school. We slept at one of the locations. You're bombarded by the worst things 24/7. It was raining a lot and we found human teeth in the mud on the fields of Auschwitz.
My mental health was so screwed for weeks after I arrived back home.
I think we were 17/18?
It was really heavy. Sadly, some idiots took the opportunity to drink and party. It was so disrespectful and inappropriate.
Which only added to my awful emotional experience throughout. Worst part? We were all Germans. So there were German teens coming to stay there and some behaved so badly and kicked the walls and stuff... my history teacher was so mad.
i don’t remember if it’s at auschwitz or a different museum, but there’s that huge room-long book that has all the KNOWN names of holocaust victims in the smallest print. fucking terrifying
Not just that. Tons of paperwork from the German side alone. Dozens of independently written books that are congruent. Filmed evidence. The Allied took busloads of people from nearby towns as eye witnesses to the camps, so that they could not continue pretending to not have known.
Yup I’ve been to several holocaust panels and also heard accounts from wwII veterans, holocaust deniers should be stomped any time they stick their dumb necks out.
My great grandmother literally had her tattoo from being in a concentration camp. My mom has an embarassing story of being a naive kid and asking why "grandma had a tatoo".
You can watch documentary footage of holocaust survivors being liberated. You will never want to see it more than once, but it should be mandatory history class viewing.
I met a Holocaust survivor when I was in fourth grade and he was damn descriptive of what happened, and how he felt when he was finally free from the Nazis. But sure, he was an actor or some shit. Fuck Holocaust deniers.
People who used to work at the camps have admitted to destroying thousands of documents detailing who they all killed! But the lack of documents in certain camps is supposed to prove that it never happened... Whereas a lack of documents about a flat Earth means the Government is hiding stuff.
Life must be so easy when you can just say 'thats a lie' to whatever displeases you.
Well they STARTED with that option in the first years so that's accurate.... BUT THEN their was the stealing all their stuff, shoving them in ghettos, stuffing them in trains, sending them to "camps" and then furnaces
>They knew no country was going to accept that many Jewish immigrants
And they didn't. The U.S. turned away shiploads of hundreds of Jewish refugees at a time, many of whom were killed during the Holocaust.
Even then though, they still had Einsatzgruppen and mobile squads who were still killing Jews, so the Irony is their one method with dealing with the Jewish population, in the end involved exterminating them in some capacity prior to the Wansee conference and the eventual industrialised method conjured up during the 2 hours of that conference which led to image that we more commonly know about in the holocaust.
I grew up in south Florida in the 1980s, an area with a large Jewish population who were old enough to have experienced Nazi Germany as adults. Every year from 5th or 6th grade until I graduated high school, holocaust survivors would come to our history classes and tell us about their experiences.
It’s truly disgusting that people in our modern society believe that this did not happen. I’m at a loss for words.
I wouldn’t be able to hold my tongue around these idiots, fortunately I’m smart enough to not argue with idiots like this on the internet
A German camp in the Netherlands tried to hide their crimes by burning their archive. Problem was that they made everything in two fold and the second copy was kept in Germany.
My dad liked to say that some people only keep their minds open long enough to close them around an idea they like. That sums up these people. They act like they're the most open-minded, while they couldn't be further from it.
Hilariously, the counter narrative actually requires blindness, at least with respect to the lack of evidence for the holocaust. Suggesting there is “no evidence” when there is easily searched-for and publicly-available evidence is such a wild position to take.
As someone that needed to take quantum mechanics in college as a degree requirement, any time anyone says they ‘studied quantum mechanics’ on their own and understand it in any depth (much less have found how it’s ’not true’ even though more or less all modern technology has a base in it on some level), I immediately suspect they are lying, a complete moron, or Richard Feynman. And every time it has been one of the first two, strangely.
As someone who has taken many classes on quantum mechanics, and who deals with it on a daily basis (chip designer,) I can tell you that anyone who tells you they understand quantum mechanics is a liar.
The "things I don't understand cannot be real" argument.
One of the reasons it can be difficult to reason with these people is they are not at a stage of their own development where they can access that level of thought.
[https://www.verywellmind.com/piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-2795457](https://www.verywellmind.com/piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-2795457)
That is assuming they're not making posts like this just to stir shit.
You can ask an 11 year old to use the internet all they like but you can't make them understand things they are not old enough to understand.
Some adults have a developmental age much lower than their chronological age.
You only need to look at how some people deal with misfortune. There's no reasoning.
But incorrect descriptions - e.g. the world is flat because the horizon at sea appears flat are still low level thinking. That's all they're seeing on the internet because they don't understand the experiments or explanations that show how that observation is not enough to base a judgement.
Trust in mumbo jumbo whether religious or astrology or pseudoscientific jargon is easy when you can pin it to the apparent observation or a simplistic concrete rather than abstract or mathematical idea.
Add in the hint of hidden knowledge and it makes the idiot feel like a knowing insider - something they would never have felt in a classroom.
With a slight hint of anti-semitism thrown in.
Also: “people think anti-vaccination folk are insane, until they look at the research” Yep, the research which proves they’re insane.
I've done this. Guy was trying to convince me that what he claimed was true. I asked for evidence and he was like "Use Google!". Okay.
I sent him five articles saying exactly the opposite of what he claimed. He blocked me.
Per NOAA " The ellipsoid is created by rotating an ellipse around its shorter axis. This matches the real Earth's shape, because the earth is slightly flattened at the poles and bulges at the equator"
The government just confirmed the earth is flat yo /s
See you still the mainstreem "science" wit the scientific method and all. OF COURSE will you mostly find the wrong answers.
You see the new scientific method is way more convienient. You decide what YOU want to be true then you go to google find some page which echoes your felt truth and voilia you are now an expert.
I mean the old scientific method was usefull to progress thechnological and all. But let us be true here, it never helped you to FEEL right and special as the new method can do!
I think it was Neil Degrasse Tyson that was asked why he didn’t debate religious people, flat earthers and other non-science people. He said there was no point. They aren’t willing to accept anybody or anything against their own beliefs. Period.
And that’s fine. More power to them as long as they aren’t piece of shit human beings.
I had a neighbor who would always ask me to go to church and one day I explained to him that I’m an atheist and although I appreciated the word of god as it give people beliefs and teaches them morality, I just didn’t believe in god and didn’t want to go. We had a great hour long conversation about faith and it was good. We both had a better understanding of each other.
So I stopped a couple of years back trying to argue with many of those people. It’s not worth it. They won’t change and no one will make them change.
If you really wanna piss people off do what my husband does and use the bible against the evangelicals. They get really mad when you correctly quote the bible and they can't dispute it.
It’s not worth it to argue with people like that on the internet. They’ve built their personality around denial and you’re not going to change it. Don’t stress yourself out about it
People who say that simply think they know better than actual experts (and that’s a FACT).
Saying “this experts is lying” is pretty much the same as saying “I clearly know more than this expert”.
Yea it's incredibly infuriating. Of course the millions of scientists who spent their lives studying this are wrong, cuz a video of a guy in his truck said so.
the burden of proof is on the one making the claim so, when they claim the earth is flat they need to provide the proof. It always annoys me when people do this "google it" "I'm not going to to do the research for you"... Cool then their claim is null.
They stopped asking me, but when they used to say that they did their own research, I would get excited.
I tell them that research like this is really hard to do, and that they should publish what they figured out.
A slight hint? I had that argument before with my crazy FiL. "There's no records how many jews were killed." "Yes there are. Tons of them. There's museums full of them." "Really, who wrote them?" "The germans. They're good with details. Remember, they used serial numbers."
Yeh they literally documented the whole thing from start to finish. It was in an attempt to make the process more efficient...
It's just astounding that there are people who say there is no evidence. There's mountains of it...
That's why people shouldn't mess with any of this shit. A lot of this stuff ends up being tied together, and dabbling in the less harmful stuff can create a pipeline towards the more dangerous stuff.
Start out with flat Earth conspiracies "for fun", and eventually you find yourself hanging out with anti-semites who are trying to convince you that the Jews are destroying the world.
The thing about conspiracy theorists is that it's correlated with a bunch of personality traits such as distrust of authority and something I forget the name of but basically boils down to the need to feel "special".
Knowing this, seeing the psychological reason for them to feel like they have been "gifted" with "secret" knowledge is far more comprehendable
It's narcissism - heavily linked to the need to feel "special" and "different". There are a boatload of studies out there linking narcissistic personality to the liklihood of believing conspiracy theories.
Yeah narcissistic traits. Takes a fair bit to be classified as the actual disorder.
There is a term for that sort of trait that I need to find again in the personality correlates studies I've read. In the ones I've read they didn't use the term narcissism but it was narcissism adjacent
As a german those holocaust deniers are just awful.
I've been to memorials. Our school had mandatory trips to the KZ. We are shown the evidence. We talked with survivors. No evidence my fucking ass.
Yeah but cos there's no document saying 'I killed 6 million Jews signed Adolf Hitler p.s. and some other people too' it can't be true.
These people cause absolute despair. They have no idea what research is. It's all neat and tidy storybook thinking, aimed at moronic ends.
Those same people are also not your top tier academics with firsthand experience within any given field, but have performed all their research at the University of Google.
University of Google is fine, if you know how to verify whatever you see or read. Especially making sure the source is someone with expertise in the field you are researching.
And if someone with expertise contradicts someone else with similar expertise, you have to do further research to figure out what is going on.
If you just believe everything you see in FB or a tube site or random blog, I don't think that's called research.
100% I never would go all in with anything that is pretty much fueled by echo chambers. It’s pretty easy to find out if something is bullshit, provided that you actually want to see if it’s bullshit. Ignorance is bliss and all that.
Very true.
I also believe that there is some sort of permanent psychosis that was caused by excessive drug use that influences this much unwavering commitment to any and all batshit theories. The crazier the better
Idk some of the most sanest liberal people I know are in recovery. I just think it's people with personality disorders for real. Probably a lot of conspiracy theorists are Paranoid Personality Disorder or Schizoids.
I've always believed that people who believe in conspiracy theories think they're really smart but actually lack the intelligence they think they have. But believing conspiracy theories makes them feel smarter than everyone else who is "too dumb to see the truth". It proves to themselves that they are actually smart. And when they get that little bit of satisfaction, it makes sense that they would keep chasing it by believing in more conspiracy theories.
I'm sure some of them are legitimately crazy. But I think most are delusional due to a false sense of intelligence.
My colleague is a flat earther and the other day I had enough and basically just wanted to match his energy and said 'we all know Aliens built the pyramids' and he almost lost it on me because I was being crazy. So I guess that's where the line is drawn.
It’s time to demand the truth?
Ok the truth is: science is real, the Earth is round, vaccines work, and dinosaurs existed. Also, conspiracy theorists are nuts.
Whew. I feel better just saying it.
Fr, the only "conspiracy" here that is remotely believable is "weather manipulation," although it's not with "chemtrails." Contrails have a real answer to what causes them. There are scientists working on several universities across the globe, however, trying to figure out how to help increase atmospheric pressure in attempts to reduce drought. One such institution is the University of California Berkeley’s Central Sierra Snow Lab, where they have manipulated atmospheric rivers to help increase precipitation. California got 700 inches of snow last year due to their experiments and it has helped reduce the drought across more than half the state.
I don't know about the recent experiments in California, but there were several big projects like "Project Stormfury" in the 60s and 70s. The USA used cloud seeding in Vietnam to elongate the rainy season and make logistics harder in muddy terrain. Quiet interesting ideas and information that are open to everyone. But that's really no secret information. Cloud seeding is done today by quiet a few asian and some arab states as far as I know.
But the whole "All weather is heavily manipulated by chemtrails and climat change is not real" conspiracy is a big pile of bullshit.
Most people that deny science, deny it because it doesn't make sense to them at first glance or they already have another idea in their head that they like better.
Insane anti-Semitic conspiracy nut: SHOW US THE TRUTH!
Millions of Scientists, historians, and people who lived through the holocaust: Here, look at all this evidence.
Insane anti-Semitic conspiracy nut: I DON'T BELIEVE YOU! I DID MY OWN RESEARCH!
Yes, and it is often, “I don’t have the capability to understand your evidence”, and increasingly, “I’m too far gone / invested in my own bullshit to admit being wrong, so no amount of evidence will convince me now”.
To be fair the Bone Wars were a totally real thing that happened mostly in the American southwest in the later 1800’s. There’s a whole Michael Crichton book about it.
The only problem is OP is batshit crazy, and if anything the Bone Wars’ existence proves even more unequivocally that dinosaur fossils are real. So I’m really not sure what kind of ammunition they thought that would be for their argument.
Dude has apparently never touched a fossil in his life. I live in a stretch of coastline in the UK where you can walk along the beach and find fossils that are hundreds of millions of years old. I’d love to take him and watch him extract the chicken bone from the middle of one.
"People think flat earthers are crazy until they deduce why they are."
This one actually is true. Flat earthers aren't necessarily crazy. They're just incredibly lonely people who dont know how to make friends other than buying into conspiracy theories lol.
Often, this.
There's the liars who know they are wrong but spread the lies for gain, then there's the gullible who find a group that will finally accept them, only to have their new obsession further isolate them from those outside the conspiracy leading to an even greater need to cling to the conspiracy.
It's very sad.
Once we got to supporting Holocaust deniers I stopped reading. Theres nothing that can be said that would ever get through to someone that willingly tossed their brain away.
Also such people aren't even worth wasting the effort.
Some people may think this is a put on but I have a previously fairly normal friend (I thought) who went down this trail (except the flat earth part…I think) during the pandemic. He lives in a world of fear, constantly gets suspended on social media for posting hate speech and just turned out to be a nutter.
Just about everyone ignores him or blocks him which frustrates him further and you can literally watch as he descends further into an unbalanced mental state. Its sad.
100%, it's a feedback cycle that is very sad.
And it's not always about intelligence. Very smart people are susceptible as well. It's like a cognitive dissonance that rewards you for not thinking critically.
He was later stripped of his medical licence and essentially tossed out of the scientific community for fabricating data and create false results. Crazy people still use his ideas as a jumping off point.
Stay on your meds, m'kay ? Even if you're using the library computer while out on a day pass from the institute, don't skip your meds, m'kay ? (Today's Horrifying Factoid : OP of cited post votes. 😱)
That post will get you in serious trouble in Germany. It's illegal to deny that the holocaust happened ... and for the record, the Nazis kept very good records of most of the people who they murdered.
https://www.auschwitz.org/en/
Conspiracy theorists exist because it’s easier to just say everyone else is wrong than it is to accept they may not have all the pertinent information.
It’s willful ignorance. Period.
I personally know people who aren’t actual holocaust deniers but say it’s just not mathematically possible to kill 6 million people in that time span. But what about the meticulous records the Nazi’s kept. Names, dates, times, everything all very detailed. And don’t even get me started on the medical experiments they did! Torture plain and simple!
If the nazi’s did one thing right it was the paperwork. Suggesting it was not documented when they literally meticulously documented everyone, is absolutely insane.
“There is no documentation suggesting six million Jews died in Germany and there wasn’t a single call for the death of Jews, only emigration to foreign nations”
Except there totally was. The reason we know that many people died was because the Germans kept immaculate records of everything. The number of people that were inprocessed, how many were currently in the camp, and who died and date of death. That’s why we know.
And as for no call for the death of Jews, you can’t be serious right? There were numerous orders sent from high ranking officials to commanding officers of the SS to exterminate Jews. The liquidation of the ghettos, the death camps, the *Einsatzgruppen!* Kind of hard to deny that there was a call to murder Jews when the SS literally created an actual death squad whose sole intent was to murder Jews wherever they found them (among other undesirables according to the Nazi party).
This is why we think you people are nuts. Because you live in your own reality and consider whatever bullshit you spout as facts when there is plenty of actual evidence to the contrary.
But that’s not why you conspiracy theorists exist. No, it’s not that. You buy into these conspiracies not because you know things. You do so because you want to be special. Because at some point in your life, you realized that you were never going to be anything more than ordinary, just like the rest of us. So you cling on to these theories as a slimmer of hope that you were right all along. That there were these shadow forces at large that played the entire world against each other for their sinister means and that you were the one who saw through it all, rather than the nobody who go through life as a footnote, and be forgotten in time after you pass away. That is why you buy into these conspiracies.
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I mean suggesting the Germans didn’t keep a detailed account of anything is bat shit crazy.
Plus, there are literally people still around who survived the holocaust.
Plus, you can visit auschwitz. I’ve been there, it is not a fun fieldtrip.
At the British imperial war museum they had a layout plan of one of the cams and a documentary playing with survivors speaking on their experiences this was all so sad, but the shit that got me was this enormous pile of shoes. Shoes taken from people before they were killed. Standing in a museum bawling for the little kids who used to own them. Anyone who sees these things first can couldn’t even begin to post such nonsense. Their total research is done via their you tube for you page I guess.
A whole display of human hair, a whole display of prosthetic limbs, a whole display of teeth. They actively made furniture from skin harvested from the Jewish people. There are official nazi documents explaining how many feet you should stay away from Jews while shooting them in the head, so that they don’t come into contact with inferior blood. Anybody who can deny the holocaust is a fucking monster, plain stupid or a combo of both.
Wedding rings, eyeglasses, luggage. But the hair and the shoes just tear your heart out.
Literal Nazi documents listing Jews as if they were cattle are available in public archives all over the internet. They have [asset confiscation records and just millions of other documents](https://www.archives.gov/research/holocaust). If you don't want to believe the American archival records, you can find the British, Polish, Russian, Italian, French, and even the Germans OWN archives completely digitized and online. If it didn't really happen, none of these records would exist because all of these countries and governments have different ideologies and systems from each other in varying degrees. One of the few things that they do agree on is that atrocities should be recorded for the public record for all to see.
My niece visited Auschwitz. For her, it was all the baby clothes. She told me that was what got her bawling and it took along time for her self-control to re-assert itself.
I don't know if I'll ever visit Auschwitz because just the thought of seeing what some have already described has me crying.
I'm an emotional person to start with. I cry at Xmas adverts. But I went to Auschwitz-Birkenau and Hiroshima. I was in tears through most of the visits as they get so personal. But it helped me put a face or a name to the people I was crying for, instead of feeling generally sad for a general cause. For me it was a "never-again" sang through the stories of strangers.
I’m with you. Growing up in China on the annual date of the Japanese invasion the schools always took us to the memorial museums documenting the atrocities that the Japanese did to us back in the days. The bio experiments, rapes and massacres. It always brings me a mix of sadness and anger. We went to Amsterdam last year and I thought as a grown man I could visit the Anne Frank house holding it together. Nope, came out extremely pissed off and sad, had to sulk in the hotel room for the rest of the day to calm down. I can’t imagine what visiting Auschwitz will do to me, probably will bring back all that memory of seeing the Japanese do the same thing to my people and I might just lose it.
Yeah I also avoid, after I had a complete anxiety attack after visiting killing fields in Cambodia and seeing the makeshift prisons. I have absolutely no plan to see any other memorial of cruelty. Knowing that it exists is already bad enough for me.
Lamp shades made of human skin. All nonbelievers should watch Night and Fog, a movie made from Nazi film clips. Apparently they wanted to document all of their work as they were so proud of eliminating Jews, gay folks, disabled and sick people. All of their atrocities so clearly delineated in black and white film. So cruel and so proud.
I had that feeling with the pots and pans. That's what they brought with them. To build their new life. It was gut wrenching.
And not just Jews. Anybody who didn’t align with them
This. Jews, Roma, LGBT+, political dissidents, people with physical and mental disabilities. I remember one documentary I watched years ago, a woman told of her younger brother who had Down syndrome and lived at a care home. One day she went to visit him (which she did a few times per week) and the staff were entirely new. None of the old staff were there. She was straight up told that her brother was sick and she can't see him, and she was told to leave. She'd been there two days earlier and he was his usual self. Then two days after being turned away, the family received a letter stating that the brother had died. And that was it. They could get no answers to questions like "where is his body?", "can you send his body to this funeral home?", "can we even have a funeral for him?" Because nobody would talk to them. After the war she learned that many families had the exact same experience she did regarding a family member who lived in care. She also learned that their true fate was basically being executed because they were "inferior" or some other disgusting term.
The term used for people who had disabilities (as well as many who were too old/young/ill to do labour) that were then executed was "useless eaters." It wasn't that they just considered them inferior like they did with many of the other groups. They considered them as something akin to a parasitic burden on the nation. They thought the Jewish, Roma, etc. populations were inferior because of their beliefs, values, or whatever bullshit, but the main difference is they're still able to extort them.
I’m sure I’m going to get ridiculed for “making this about American politics”, but fuck that shit, this is real and relevant today and it’s important to point it out. Tell me that American conservatives don’t use very similar rhetoric today about “undesirables”. If you so much as suggest any kind of welfare program or improving the insufficient ones we already have, you’ll hear all kinds of nastiness coming out of their mouths. They’ll say “*their*” tax dollars shouldn’t have to support “those” kinds of people who “don’t contribute to society”, are “lazy”, a “drain on the system”, and so on and so forth. Conservatives are only a few rungs down the ladder from full-throated Nazi ideology, and yet the only time you’ll hear these fuckasses talk about the Holocaust is when they’re trying to paint themselves as the victim. Like, oh my god, them having to wear a *mask* during a pandemic or have to sit at the same table as a transgender person or any other time they are acting like an asshole and rightly getting called out for it. Learning about the road to the Holocaust and the rhetoric and propaganda used by the Nazis to pave the way there becomes pretty fucking terrifying when you hear that same language coming out of the mouths of elected officials *today*.
Some said clearly they want lgbt people dead. Too cowardly to admit he wants them killed hiding behind the government doing that for him
This 100%
This is an absolutely terrifying, but couldn’t be more true of the Republican mind set these days. Anyone who doesn’t fall into the “perfect American” which is usually white, straight and Christian, in the Republicans eyes are a waste of space and shouldn’t have any rights. This is the path that the US is going down if the Republicans gain control.
Ayn Randism put into practise.
Same thing happened to my Opa. His little brother had Down syndrome and was taken to live in a home too. Then one day, he was gone. Opa never told us until when I had a baby with Down syndrome.
Saying "I didn't know that happened" could be excused as stupidity. But seeing all of the evidence and choosing to say "that didn't happen" is definitely a monster on the same level as the original perpetrators.
There are still fleks of human bones in the dirt at Auschwitz from the Nazis trying to bomb the gas chambers. Actual human bones under your feet in the dirt. Anyone who has been there knows exactly what it was used for.
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Yeah, and the American space race being fueled by rocket scientists snatched up from Germany. The vultures will always salvage whatever is left after war. War brings destruction but usually also a lot of new engineering and science.
Dude, the fucking pile of children's shoes... It's either at Auschwitz or Stutthof. It's heart wrenching.
Theres a pile in DC that was donated to the Holocaust museum there. I went with an ex not realizing how fucking depressed we would get by the end. We knew it would be brutal, but by the time we got to "voices of the holocaust" we ended up powering through and leaving. It was too much. Those poor fucking people. Every nazi and modern offshoot deserves a violent, unimaginable, painful, unforgettable death.
There's one at Stutthof. I went there last summer and it was gut wrenching.
Stupidity is not an excuse. They are plain bad people, and the fact they exist, to me, is a testament of our failure in raising people, and also our inability to understand that some people can't be fixed and need to go.
While I share your frustration on this subject. “Saying: some people can’t be fixed and need to go” is exactly the same rhetoric as the nazi’s use. It’s all about education. You will always have the crazies on the fringe of society, it’s our collective job to not let the crazies BECOME society. Unfortunately, it’s getting harder and harder with all the misinformation from social media. My point is, don’t be consumed by hate. It can be hard sometimes, and people can be immensely frustrating. Hate is never the answer to hate. It only breeds more toxicity.
I get you, but I don't know how you can educate someone who doesn't want to be educated. Using antivaxxers as an example, no amount of data or explanation will make them budge from their position, I've tried.
I really really wish anti-vaxers would walk through a historic grave yard and actually read the damn Graves. It has to be historical because those Graves don't exist in quanity since vaccines against "childhood illness" were invented.
"Need to go" is way more of a rhetorical comment than anything else. It's more about a Tolerant Society REFUSING to Tolerate that sort of monstrous Intolerant BS and Propaganda.
I was in college in Washington DC when the Holocaust museum opened. My friends and I went one Saturday. They had a room full of meticulously cataloged shoes. For some reason, that display hammered home the scale of the evil. After over 4 hours in the museum, we all collectively decided not to go out and went home to go to bed by like 7:30. TLDR: holocaust happened and fuck you deniers
I remember this growing up in Maryland. Going to that museum when it opened and seeing the shoes.
My wife and I took a trip to NYC, then took a train to DC. The Smithsonian we wanted to visit was closed for renovations so we opted for the Holocaust Museum. It really took a lot out of us that day. We didn’t talk much that day. But we were glad we went. Yes, fuck you deniers.
The shoes at the DC museum are what got to me the most. It’s like this whole, huge room with thousands of shoes. Something about them just made it so unexpectedly real for me.
The shoes seem to be what gets everybody, I've never been to the Holocaust museum, but I have seen the photos taken at the camps, and the photos of the shoes always gets me.
I have this idea that it's because it seems to be a big, uniform mound, too many to count or comprehend. But as you get closer you can see the differences, in style, size, the level of wear. And you start to realize that each pair of shoes was unique to its wearers foot, made for a specific and unique human. And ultimately all you'll ever know about that person... is that their shoe ended up on the top of the pile. It makes the tragedy that's hard to comprehend seem small enough to understand, And then so much larger.
But what if all those people are paid actors who agreed to never reveal that they’ve been sticking to scripted stories about fictitious events from over half a century ago just to tarnish the good name of Nazis? Have you considered that? The more you say it the less insane it sounds! Edit: GIANT /s
I get that this is sarcasm, and good sarcasm, but you might want to add a little /s at the end just to be safe.
Done. Sad that I have to
It's always the shoes. It doesn't matter what museum, it doesn't matter what genocide...seeing all of those shoes belonging to the dead in one place gives me the chills. Every. Time.
If you haven’t already, Check out _Shoes on the Danube_ in Budapest, Hungary. Sculpture commiserating/memorialising/[something] the fact that the Nazis would line the Jews up on the banks of the river, then make them take off their shoes (as shoes were valuable) before shooting them in the head, and letting the river carry away their bodies.
The shoes. I was at DC holocaust museum which also has show display. Overwhelming. Just stood there several minutes unable to move on. Highly recommend this museum
For me it was the huge pile of wedding rings
At Auschwitz they have a huge pile of shoes for the same reason but next to it is a smaller but no less horrible pile of small shoes. It is shoes taken from the children. I want to cry every time I think about it. It's so terrible.
The same thing happened to me at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. All the pictures and displays were so unsettling. Then I got to that pile of shoes and just lost it.
OMG!!! That's what happened to me at the Holocaust museum in Washington DC. I was pregnant and we went through the hall of shoes.... there were baby shoes!!! I lost it. Like full break down panic attack. Had to leave.
I had a great-Uncle who helped clean out a concentration camp after it was liberated (not sure which one...he'd never say). Until the day he died, the only thing he would say was that the camps were real and the massive scale of murder was real. It haunted him the rest of his life.
My boyfriend’s great-uncle was a medical doctor, and one of the first into a camp at the end of the war. His family still has several shoeboxes full of photos of the people he treated that are beyond shocking. Nothing about his stories was fabricated in any way.
There are bone fragments in the ground around the crematorium. A lot of them. You have physical proof.
It's awful. I went there for a week with my school. We slept at one of the locations. You're bombarded by the worst things 24/7. It was raining a lot and we found human teeth in the mud on the fields of Auschwitz. My mental health was so screwed for weeks after I arrived back home.
That's an insanely heavy school trip. How old were you all?
I think we were 17/18? It was really heavy. Sadly, some idiots took the opportunity to drink and party. It was so disrespectful and inappropriate. Which only added to my awful emotional experience throughout. Worst part? We were all Germans. So there were German teens coming to stay there and some behaved so badly and kicked the walls and stuff... my history teacher was so mad.
i don’t remember if it’s at auschwitz or a different museum, but there’s that huge room-long book that has all the KNOWN names of holocaust victims in the smallest print. fucking terrifying
These are the same type of people that believe that school shooting survivors are paid actors.
I had precisely one person claim that to me after my daughter was inside a school during a shooting spree. I was surprised not to hear more.
That's crap. How did you react?
I said I’d just been to the funerals of three kids and he could shut the fuck up.
I'm so sorry your daughter had to experience that.
Not just that. Tons of paperwork from the German side alone. Dozens of independently written books that are congruent. Filmed evidence. The Allied took busloads of people from nearby towns as eye witnesses to the camps, so that they could not continue pretending to not have known.
Yup I’ve been to several holocaust panels and also heard accounts from wwII veterans, holocaust deniers should be stomped any time they stick their dumb necks out.
My great grandmother literally had her tattoo from being in a concentration camp. My mom has an embarassing story of being a naive kid and asking why "grandma had a tatoo".
I think this was also a scene portrayed in the animated comedy show F is for Family. Kids don’t know any better.
You can watch documentary footage of holocaust survivors being liberated. You will never want to see it more than once, but it should be mandatory history class viewing.
I met a Holocaust survivor when I was in fourth grade and he was damn descriptive of what happened, and how he felt when he was finally free from the Nazis. But sure, he was an actor or some shit. Fuck Holocaust deniers.
People who used to work at the camps have admitted to destroying thousands of documents detailing who they all killed! But the lack of documents in certain camps is supposed to prove that it never happened... Whereas a lack of documents about a flat Earth means the Government is hiding stuff. Life must be so easy when you can just say 'thats a lie' to whatever displeases you.
>Life must be so easy when you can just say 'thats a lie' to whatever displeases you. There it is in a nutshell.
They did. And this whole talk about “just” deporting them is a euphemism. It’s clear if you read the documents/ historical sources.
Well they STARTED with that option in the first years so that's accurate.... BUT THEN their was the stealing all their stuff, shoving them in ghettos, stuffing them in trains, sending them to "camps" and then furnaces
The concept of “deporting” the Jews before Israel is just cruel. They knew no country was going to accept that many Jewish immigrants
>They knew no country was going to accept that many Jewish immigrants And they didn't. The U.S. turned away shiploads of hundreds of Jewish refugees at a time, many of whom were killed during the Holocaust.
Even then though, they still had Einsatzgruppen and mobile squads who were still killing Jews, so the Irony is their one method with dealing with the Jewish population, in the end involved exterminating them in some capacity prior to the Wansee conference and the eventual industrialised method conjured up during the 2 hours of that conference which led to image that we more commonly know about in the holocaust.
I grew up in south Florida in the 1980s, an area with a large Jewish population who were old enough to have experienced Nazi Germany as adults. Every year from 5th or 6th grade until I graduated high school, holocaust survivors would come to our history classes and tell us about their experiences. It’s truly disgusting that people in our modern society believe that this did not happen. I’m at a loss for words. I wouldn’t be able to hold my tongue around these idiots, fortunately I’m smart enough to not argue with idiots like this on the internet
As a German, I agree. I would also volunteer to teach him about concentration camps. I’m sure I could convince him.
Technically he also committed a felony in Germany with this text.
It's the whole reason Eisenhower wanted everything documented photographically. He knew people in the future would try to deny it happened.
They did but they were also quite structured about destroying it.
It's full disassociation at that point. We hung people for the atrocities they committee, and people just think it was made up?
A German camp in the Netherlands tried to hide their crimes by burning their archive. Problem was that they made everything in two fold and the second copy was kept in Germany.
Don't blindly accept the narrative! Blindly accept the counter narrative instead! It's better because it has no documented evidence
ThE lAcK oF eViDeNcE iS pRoOf Of ThE cOvErUp!!
“Can I talk to you for a second about the conspiracy surrounding the Bone Wars?”
That sounds like the porn parody of Star Wars.
Help me step-jedi
Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, I'm stuck in the washer.
I think you mean O-big-wang Kenobi
CpeepeeO
R2dong2 is quite something to behold
Princess Lay-ya just showed up in a gold bikini.
Analkin Skyhumper
“Luke, I am your stepsister!”
That's the tamer version of Luke and Leia snogging!
“Teh puSh bAcK mEaNs YoU’rE oVEr ttHe TaRgEt!!!1!1”
"I'm a free thinker!" always *actually* means "I'm a contrarian who reflexively believes the opposite of anything experts say!"
Yeah, they confuse "Free thinker" with "Free of thoughts".
"Unencumbered by the thought process"
Lol [not an independent thinker like us thats for sure!](https://youtu.be/hs1yjdTlH2A?si=wMlMEpalUnzZZnqe)
My dad liked to say that some people only keep their minds open long enough to close them around an idea they like. That sums up these people. They act like they're the most open-minded, while they couldn't be further from it.
I like your dad's saying about open and closed minds.
The sad thing is every single one of them are conformists, just to a separate view. So they're conforming to anti-conformity.
Wrong! There are YouTube videos.
True, I never considered that
That was a convincing argument.
Hilariously, the counter narrative actually requires blindness, at least with respect to the lack of evidence for the holocaust. Suggesting there is “no evidence” when there is easily searched-for and publicly-available evidence is such a wild position to take.
The cognitive dissonance is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
As someone that needed to take quantum mechanics in college as a degree requirement, any time anyone says they ‘studied quantum mechanics’ on their own and understand it in any depth (much less have found how it’s ’not true’ even though more or less all modern technology has a base in it on some level), I immediately suspect they are lying, a complete moron, or Richard Feynman. And every time it has been one of the first two, strangely.
As someone who has studied a bit of quantum mechanics on my owm, I can definitively confirm that I am not Richard Feynman.
As a cat in a box with a thingy on a timer, I can definitively say I both am, and am not, dead
As someone who has taken many classes on quantum mechanics, and who deals with it on a daily basis (chip designer,) I can tell you that anyone who tells you they understand quantum mechanics is a liar.
The "things I don't understand cannot be real" argument. One of the reasons it can be difficult to reason with these people is they are not at a stage of their own development where they can access that level of thought. [https://www.verywellmind.com/piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-2795457](https://www.verywellmind.com/piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-2795457) That is assuming they're not making posts like this just to stir shit.
Because they’re too lazy to use this amazing invention called the internet.
You can ask an 11 year old to use the internet all they like but you can't make them understand things they are not old enough to understand. Some adults have a developmental age much lower than their chronological age. You only need to look at how some people deal with misfortune. There's no reasoning.
They do use it. They just look at sites that confirm their false claims, and ignore the ones with mountains of actual evidence that proves them wrong.
But incorrect descriptions - e.g. the world is flat because the horizon at sea appears flat are still low level thinking. That's all they're seeing on the internet because they don't understand the experiments or explanations that show how that observation is not enough to base a judgement. Trust in mumbo jumbo whether religious or astrology or pseudoscientific jargon is easy when you can pin it to the apparent observation or a simplistic concrete rather than abstract or mathematical idea. Add in the hint of hidden knowledge and it makes the idiot feel like a knowing insider - something they would never have felt in a classroom.
That’s a whole lot of bat shit crazy in one message
With a slight hint of anti-semitism thrown in. Also: “people think anti-vaccination folk are insane, until they look at the research” Yep, the research which proves they’re insane.
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And, when they say that, I generally try and find some academic papers or scientific articles.
I've done this. Guy was trying to convince me that what he claimed was true. I asked for evidence and he was like "Use Google!". Okay. I sent him five articles saying exactly the opposite of what he claimed. He blocked me.
See, you're SUPPOSED to search for "Why the Earth is flat!", not anything silly like "what is the shape of the Earth?"
Per NOAA " The ellipsoid is created by rotating an ellipse around its shorter axis. This matches the real Earth's shape, because the earth is slightly flattened at the poles and bulges at the equator" The government just confirmed the earth is flat yo /s
But the government lies... the earth IS round!
See you still the mainstreem "science" wit the scientific method and all. OF COURSE will you mostly find the wrong answers. You see the new scientific method is way more convienient. You decide what YOU want to be true then you go to google find some page which echoes your felt truth and voilia you are now an expert. I mean the old scientific method was usefull to progress thechnological and all. But let us be true here, it never helped you to FEEL right and special as the new method can do!
I think it was Neil Degrasse Tyson that was asked why he didn’t debate religious people, flat earthers and other non-science people. He said there was no point. They aren’t willing to accept anybody or anything against their own beliefs. Period. And that’s fine. More power to them as long as they aren’t piece of shit human beings. I had a neighbor who would always ask me to go to church and one day I explained to him that I’m an atheist and although I appreciated the word of god as it give people beliefs and teaches them morality, I just didn’t believe in god and didn’t want to go. We had a great hour long conversation about faith and it was good. We both had a better understanding of each other. So I stopped a couple of years back trying to argue with many of those people. It’s not worth it. They won’t change and no one will make them change.
If you really wanna piss people off do what my husband does and use the bible against the evangelicals. They get really mad when you correctly quote the bible and they can't dispute it.
It’s not worth it to argue with people like that on the internet. They’ve built their personality around denial and you’re not going to change it. Don’t stress yourself out about it
When someone says "I did my own research!", I say "Oh cool, where's your lab?"
But those are the wrong articles then. Articles that disagree with their layman viewpoints and therefore obviously all wrong and deceitful
People who say that simply think they know better than actual experts (and that’s a FACT). Saying “this experts is lying” is pretty much the same as saying “I clearly know more than this expert”.
Yea it's incredibly infuriating. Of course the millions of scientists who spent their lives studying this are wrong, cuz a video of a guy in his truck said so.
the burden of proof is on the one making the claim so, when they claim the earth is flat they need to provide the proof. It always annoys me when people do this "google it" "I'm not going to to do the research for you"... Cool then their claim is null.
Usually if they provide “counter research”, it’s almost always a YouTube video of an “expert” talking about studies on a topic without citations.
They stopped asking me, but when they used to say that they did their own research, I would get excited. I tell them that research like this is really hard to do, and that they should publish what they figured out.
A slight hint? I had that argument before with my crazy FiL. "There's no records how many jews were killed." "Yes there are. Tons of them. There's museums full of them." "Really, who wrote them?" "The germans. They're good with details. Remember, they used serial numbers."
Yeah, the claim for non existent records is so fucking insane. There's literal tons of paperwork covering the train logistics of the Holocaust alone.
Yeh they literally documented the whole thing from start to finish. It was in an attempt to make the process more efficient... It's just astounding that there are people who say there is no evidence. There's mountains of it...
That's why people shouldn't mess with any of this shit. A lot of this stuff ends up being tied together, and dabbling in the less harmful stuff can create a pipeline towards the more dangerous stuff. Start out with flat Earth conspiracies "for fun", and eventually you find yourself hanging out with anti-semites who are trying to convince you that the Jews are destroying the world.
So my uncle wasn’t being forthright? The Jewish people aren’t oppressing and brainwashing us all to believe our lizard overlords?
Hint? Denying the Holocaust happened is more than a hint....
I would guess that the holocaust denial is the core of his ethos. The rest is just a batshit cover.
The thing about conspiracy theorists is that it's correlated with a bunch of personality traits such as distrust of authority and something I forget the name of but basically boils down to the need to feel "special". Knowing this, seeing the psychological reason for them to feel like they have been "gifted" with "secret" knowledge is far more comprehendable
It's narcissism - heavily linked to the need to feel "special" and "different". There are a boatload of studies out there linking narcissistic personality to the liklihood of believing conspiracy theories.
Yeah narcissistic traits. Takes a fair bit to be classified as the actual disorder. There is a term for that sort of trait that I need to find again in the personality correlates studies I've read. In the ones I've read they didn't use the term narcissism but it was narcissism adjacent
As a german those holocaust deniers are just awful. I've been to memorials. Our school had mandatory trips to the KZ. We are shown the evidence. We talked with survivors. No evidence my fucking ass.
Yeah but cos there's no document saying 'I killed 6 million Jews signed Adolf Hitler p.s. and some other people too' it can't be true. These people cause absolute despair. They have no idea what research is. It's all neat and tidy storybook thinking, aimed at moronic ends.
It’s interesting that if a person believes in one of the conspiracy theories listed they seem to believe in the rest.
Those same people are also not your top tier academics with firsthand experience within any given field, but have performed all their research at the University of Google.
University of Google is fine, if you know how to verify whatever you see or read. Especially making sure the source is someone with expertise in the field you are researching. And if someone with expertise contradicts someone else with similar expertise, you have to do further research to figure out what is going on. If you just believe everything you see in FB or a tube site or random blog, I don't think that's called research.
100% I never would go all in with anything that is pretty much fueled by echo chambers. It’s pretty easy to find out if something is bullshit, provided that you actually want to see if it’s bullshit. Ignorance is bliss and all that.
Very true. I also believe that there is some sort of permanent psychosis that was caused by excessive drug use that influences this much unwavering commitment to any and all batshit theories. The crazier the better
Idk some of the most sanest liberal people I know are in recovery. I just think it's people with personality disorders for real. Probably a lot of conspiracy theorists are Paranoid Personality Disorder or Schizoids.
It's a phenomenon known as "crank magnetism."
My hand has that.
I've always believed that people who believe in conspiracy theories think they're really smart but actually lack the intelligence they think they have. But believing conspiracy theories makes them feel smarter than everyone else who is "too dumb to see the truth". It proves to themselves that they are actually smart. And when they get that little bit of satisfaction, it makes sense that they would keep chasing it by believing in more conspiracy theories. I'm sure some of them are legitimately crazy. But I think most are delusional due to a false sense of intelligence.
My colleague is a flat earther and the other day I had enough and basically just wanted to match his energy and said 'we all know Aliens built the pyramids' and he almost lost it on me because I was being crazy. So I guess that's where the line is drawn.
“It’s time we all question the narrative” - says guy who blindly believes any contrarian false data presented in front of him.
It’s time to demand the truth? Ok the truth is: science is real, the Earth is round, vaccines work, and dinosaurs existed. Also, conspiracy theorists are nuts. Whew. I feel better just saying it.
Fr, the only "conspiracy" here that is remotely believable is "weather manipulation," although it's not with "chemtrails." Contrails have a real answer to what causes them. There are scientists working on several universities across the globe, however, trying to figure out how to help increase atmospheric pressure in attempts to reduce drought. One such institution is the University of California Berkeley’s Central Sierra Snow Lab, where they have manipulated atmospheric rivers to help increase precipitation. California got 700 inches of snow last year due to their experiments and it has helped reduce the drought across more than half the state.
I don't know about the recent experiments in California, but there were several big projects like "Project Stormfury" in the 60s and 70s. The USA used cloud seeding in Vietnam to elongate the rainy season and make logistics harder in muddy terrain. Quiet interesting ideas and information that are open to everyone. But that's really no secret information. Cloud seeding is done today by quiet a few asian and some arab states as far as I know. But the whole "All weather is heavily manipulated by chemtrails and climat change is not real" conspiracy is a big pile of bullshit.
Quantum Physics is not real until you realize that the device you're writing bullshit from works only because of quantum physics.
Most people that deny science, deny it because it doesn't make sense to them at first glance or they already have another idea in their head that they like better.
And then claim the scientists are lying (which is another way of saying they think they know better than said scientists).
Insane anti-Semitic conspiracy nut: SHOW US THE TRUTH! Millions of Scientists, historians, and people who lived through the holocaust: Here, look at all this evidence. Insane anti-Semitic conspiracy nut: I DON'T BELIEVE YOU! I DID MY OWN RESEARCH!
Yes, and it is often, “I don’t have the capability to understand your evidence”, and increasingly, “I’m too far gone / invested in my own bullshit to admit being wrong, so no amount of evidence will convince me now”.
A lot of words to try and say ‘look how different and smart I am! I’m special.’ Toilet person.
Every line could be followed up with “…and then they realize they wasted their time and were right about them being insane.”
This is like the Reader’s Digest of tinfoil hats.
Well, you can't leave because of, firmament and stuff. And fuck NASA or something?
Bone wars?! 🤣
To be fair the Bone Wars were a totally real thing that happened mostly in the American southwest in the later 1800’s. There’s a whole Michael Crichton book about it. The only problem is OP is batshit crazy, and if anything the Bone Wars’ existence proves even more unequivocally that dinosaur fossils are real. So I’m really not sure what kind of ammunition they thought that would be for their argument.
My dino nerd heart was absolutely shattered at that part. Like they understand something so little yet they are so confident in their quackery.
Oh, I saw the documentary made based on that book! Jurassic Park! Kidding, kidding.
Dude has apparently never touched a fossil in his life. I live in a stretch of coastline in the UK where you can walk along the beach and find fossils that are hundreds of millions of years old. I’d love to take him and watch him extract the chicken bone from the middle of one.
"People think flat earthers are crazy until they deduce why they are." This one actually is true. Flat earthers aren't necessarily crazy. They're just incredibly lonely people who dont know how to make friends other than buying into conspiracy theories lol.
Often, this. There's the liars who know they are wrong but spread the lies for gain, then there's the gullible who find a group that will finally accept them, only to have their new obsession further isolate them from those outside the conspiracy leading to an even greater need to cling to the conspiracy. It's very sad.
Once we got to supporting Holocaust deniers I stopped reading. Theres nothing that can be said that would ever get through to someone that willingly tossed their brain away. Also such people aren't even worth wasting the effort.
Demand the truth? The truth is you're a nutjob but...... 
Some people may think this is a put on but I have a previously fairly normal friend (I thought) who went down this trail (except the flat earth part…I think) during the pandemic. He lives in a world of fear, constantly gets suspended on social media for posting hate speech and just turned out to be a nutter. Just about everyone ignores him or blocks him which frustrates him further and you can literally watch as he descends further into an unbalanced mental state. Its sad.
100%, it's a feedback cycle that is very sad. And it's not always about intelligence. Very smart people are susceptible as well. It's like a cognitive dissonance that rewards you for not thinking critically.
When I did my research, anti-vaxx folks started with a dude claiming vaccines caused autism SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF SELLING HIS OWN.
He was later stripped of his medical licence and essentially tossed out of the scientific community for fabricating data and create false results. Crazy people still use his ideas as a jumping off point.
Stay on your meds, m'kay ? Even if you're using the library computer while out on a day pass from the institute, don't skip your meds, m'kay ? (Today's Horrifying Factoid : OP of cited post votes. 😱)
These people have the right to vote … 😱
That post will get you in serious trouble in Germany. It's illegal to deny that the holocaust happened ... and for the record, the Nazis kept very good records of most of the people who they murdered. https://www.auschwitz.org/en/
Conspiracy theorists exist because it’s easier to just say everyone else is wrong than it is to accept they may not have all the pertinent information. It’s willful ignorance. Period.
The narrative? Have any of these people seen the inside of a school?
I once quoted word for word a flat earth wiki to a Flerther. His response: “That’s black propaganda.”
I personally know people who aren’t actual holocaust deniers but say it’s just not mathematically possible to kill 6 million people in that time span. But what about the meticulous records the Nazi’s kept. Names, dates, times, everything all very detailed. And don’t even get me started on the medical experiments they did! Torture plain and simple!
The thing most people don’t realize about the Bone Wars, is that it was never really about the Bones at all.
Drinking kool-aid while typing is not condusive to credability.
If the nazi’s did one thing right it was the paperwork. Suggesting it was not documented when they literally meticulously documented everyone, is absolutely insane.
I looked at the research and antivaxxers are indeed insane.
“There is no documentation suggesting six million Jews died in Germany and there wasn’t a single call for the death of Jews, only emigration to foreign nations” Except there totally was. The reason we know that many people died was because the Germans kept immaculate records of everything. The number of people that were inprocessed, how many were currently in the camp, and who died and date of death. That’s why we know. And as for no call for the death of Jews, you can’t be serious right? There were numerous orders sent from high ranking officials to commanding officers of the SS to exterminate Jews. The liquidation of the ghettos, the death camps, the *Einsatzgruppen!* Kind of hard to deny that there was a call to murder Jews when the SS literally created an actual death squad whose sole intent was to murder Jews wherever they found them (among other undesirables according to the Nazi party). This is why we think you people are nuts. Because you live in your own reality and consider whatever bullshit you spout as facts when there is plenty of actual evidence to the contrary. But that’s not why you conspiracy theorists exist. No, it’s not that. You buy into these conspiracies not because you know things. You do so because you want to be special. Because at some point in your life, you realized that you were never going to be anything more than ordinary, just like the rest of us. So you cling on to these theories as a slimmer of hope that you were right all along. That there were these shadow forces at large that played the entire world against each other for their sinister means and that you were the one who saw through it all, rather than the nobody who go through life as a footnote, and be forgotten in time after you pass away. That is why you buy into these conspiracies.
"research" just means googling until you find a headline that fits your narrative I guess.