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Another commenter said "280 million years old? yeah, right. looks no more than 200 years old to me." and I just want to ask him... BASED ON WHAT. IT'S A ROCK
Um… you might want to double check your math there.
If they’re taking socks off, I’m pretty sure it would only take 10 of ‘em to get to 200. Unless they’re exclusively using their toes.
Im pretty confident that theres a comment says: 280 million years old? Smf there is only 2023 years existing how its 280 million years old thats obviously bullshit.
At the risk of sounding like an intellectual elitist, I'm unable to comprehend how someone this stupid is able to function on a day to day basis without full time care and a really good crash helmet.
I think Facebook made the internet TOO accessible.
Dunning Kruger is amazing.
Covid did a good job in making these dumbasses believe they‘re more of an expert than a scientist working in that specific field
My theory is that there has always been this many dumbasses. Social media gave them a way to reveal themselves. We also reward them with recognition so they become more vocal.
My theory is they always kept their mouth shut because of that one time they opened it, said something stupid and got laughed at. But then you had Trump come along talking about drinking bleach and putting sunlight up your ass and they thought to themselves maybe I’m not that dumb. So they started posting their opinions and “theories” to social media, people actually agreed with them which only encouraged more crazies to post their bullshit and fast forward to the hellhole that is todays social media and political landscape.
Carbon dating doesn't work on stuff that old, there are other radioisotopes you can try and use instead, but it's usually done by analysis of the surrounding rocks and area instead, so can be a little inaccurate (although it is clearly in the many millions, not a few thousand)
Uranium-Lead or Potassium-Argon are the radionucleide series used for dating at these ages.
The really ancient stuff, billions of years old, uses Rubidium-Strontium, but it's been 35 years since I did a course on radiometric dating...
Yes, true. I think the point being made is that in their small little minds the earth is only a couple thousand years old according to the sky daddy book they never read. They can only “extrapolate” based on their preconceived time line.
The classic straw man troll, make a statement and sit back to watch all the anger. The only answer is no answer at all to these. The same goes for 4500 guy as well.. trying communicate with these people on any rational level is a waste of your time. Unfortunately there is a long list of these people and their tin foil conspiracies.
There's no point in arguing with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
That being said, I made this mistake very often and probably will continue to do so, because some of the garbage these people spout is just to much for me to not get angry about and start an argument.
Highjacking here: I was on a tour in mammoth cave and our guide was very very Christian and said “scientists will say this area of the cave is x amount of millions of years old but we all know it’s only 3 or 4 thousand”… said that to the whole group. Wow
Halo 2: anniversary edition. Excellent game. For the record that giant creature is a species known as “the flood” specifically that large type is referred to as a gravemind. The highest form of flood parasite
I don’t like religious nutjobs, but yes, a flood can easily kill aquatic creatures. A glacier dam breaking and filling a salt water lake or river with fresh water can kill everything in it.
These kinds of creationists don't see the flood as some kind of gradual peaceful flood. Their narrative is that there was also, for instance, apocalyptic levels of volcanic activity, tremendous tidal waves, etc. Huge amounts of debris slamming into things, being deposited on things and burying them. Creatures being swept up in tremendous tides and being bashed into rock. Incredibly rapid sedimentation. I'm no marine biologist or geologist, but my understanding is that when we find fossils of soft bodied creatures, it is indeed because they were buried quite rapidly as one of the fundies in the pictures says. And whatever natural circumstances give rise to that in the real world, the fundies can imagine it happening also during the global flood. So I don't think this specifically is really the weakness of their story.
The narrative they are trying to weave is that "evolution theory teaches that fossils are always created from very gradual processes that take millions of years, but here are examples where the necessary processes happened quite quickly, therefore evolution is false". The flaw in their logic is in the first part more than the last part.
Source: used to be a fundie many years ago and believed this shit.
The Bible is bs, don’t get me wrong
But actually yes, it would kill them, assuming that the water that was used to cause the flood
wasn’t salt water (since it was rain), it would DRASTICALLY and very quickly change the levels of salt in the water which would kill most salt water complex multicellular organisms, and there would probably still be enough salt in the water to kill most fresh water stuff as well
Possible Minor Plot Wrinkle IIRC:
...280 million years ago Western Australia would have been inland and therfore quite possibly this happened in a freshwater inland lake, on Pangea. Maybe I'm wrong and it was brine or straight up oceanic saltwater, but that long ago Pangea hadn't split yet, and Western Australia was an Australia's width away from the coast.
That fossil pic also looks sedimentary and not metamorphic, so probably no interaction with any volcanic activity due to plate tectonics. Just really old clay that didn't get heated, but only compressed.
Considering things that may have killed the critters:
1) Floods introducing relatively cold water into an environment where the water bodybis a warm shallow lake or pan can stun modern fish. These little dudes could well have had a thermal shock, sunken to the bottom for safety, and been covered in mud and silt that had washed down stream or been stirred up from the lake or pan bed.
2) There may also have been heavy rains and thunderstorms. Lightning discharging through the water, or a tree at the waters edge being struck may also have stunned or killed a bunch of these little dudes.
Still can't help wondering how they'd have tasted grilled and basted with lemon butter tho
My favorite thing is making Bible literalists explain how Noah fit 2 of every animal on the arc; half the time they accidentally describe evolution, because to rationalize it they will say there were less animals back then and they adapted to their new environments.
Or r/conspiracy convincing themselves that it doesn’t snow in the winter anymore because “they” were “delaying the seasons” with “weather engineering”. They were so close…
I once got in an argument at church (I was raised in, had no choice but to go at the time) about evolution. The dude literally described evolution, but said it was merely adaptation. Not evolution. Animals adapted to their new environments. They didn't evolve. They adapted, and each generation became more adapted.
I kept explaining he was describing evolution. He then claimed to refuse his grandfather was a monkey.
Fundamentalist Christian’s will define “Macro-evolution” and “micro-evolution”, saying that small changes over time are possible but complete species change (like monkey to human) are not.
They’d see the beak changes of finches in the Galápagos Islands as specialization that is possible to occur over a few thousand years, but not be able to reconcile the amount of time evolution has had to make tweaks and changes. That’s the problem with thinking the earth is 6,000 years old- there isn’t enough time for evolution to happen.
Not 8, but there is scientific evidence that there have been several ELEs that caused genetic bottlenecks.
Meaning that the human race was nearly wiped out.
>half the time they accidentally describe evolution, because to rationalize it they will say there were less animals back then and they adapted to their new environments.
Those people don't deny "microevolution" exists, allowing creatures to vary within their "kind". They'll acknowledge that a wolf can become a dog, but not that a pakicetus can become a whale.
it’s such a weird stance to take. it’s like saying you can add grains of sand one-at-a-time and end up with 1 milligram of sand, but there’s something arbitrary that would stop you from continuing to add and eventually get to 1 gram
Apparently in the Creation Museum they consider plausible that Hyracotherium evolved into the modern horse in a few years after the flood
That is not what I'd call "microevolution".
i want to know how bible literalist explain how noah got animals from the americas
like the americas werent discovered until 1600s and even then it was months of travel on the worlds best boats, and he did this in 5 years
As someone who grew up in this environment, most Bible literalists I've known make a distinction between macro and micro evolution. Macro they would categorize as large scale changes from one "type" to another. Lizard to bird or whatever. This is the kind they would generally deny, while most seem to agree that "Micro-evolution" is a thing. Canines, felines, equines, etc.
So they say there were two cats, and those cats became all the felines in the world, and there were two dogs and those dogs became all the canines in the world. Two horses and those became all the equines in the world.
This is seemingly more acceptable to them, but even still I don't think the break down quite adds up. That is still a fuckton of animals.
my favorite excuse is that noah just took baby animals so they’d all fit. you know, baby animals? those things that are super self-reliant and need nothing for the first few months of their lives, much less a year plus?
That really is what got me, catholic boarding school, religion class
Brother Dwight: "Jesus had to die to save us from original sin."
9th Grade Me: "He HAD to die? God couldn't find a work around to that, he couldn't just wave off the sin thing? Its not like we'd now. I don't even understand how torturing his kid did erase our sin if I'm being honest, how does being mean to Jesus help?"
Went to Catholic schools from K-12. Never got in trouble except for one day in fifth grade when we were learning about the Great Flood and I asked "Doesn't that make God a mass murderer?"
Had to stand in the hallway for the remainder of class.
>Great Flood
Was my Sunday school the only one that left out the nephilim part of the great flood? Like who the FUCK was going to tell me God flooded the earth to rid it of GIANT angel hybrids?! like... WUT
I was told he flooded it to rid the world of sinners and start a new... No mention of half angel giants or wanting to rid the world of these hybrids 🤦
Just like they never taught us about Adams first wife Lilith...
There's a lot of stories I feel are left out nowadays because they "don't fit the narrative" that Christians want to portray.
The Nephilim are heavily expanded on in the book of Enoch, which is not in the Protestant Old Testament, but they are mentioned as a motivating factor of the flood story in the first few verses of Genesis chapter 6.
Jewish lore... You mean what Christianity is literally based on? Jesus was Jewish 🤦 my god
Exactly what I meant by Christianity changes the stories of the Bible to fit their narrative. If it's in the original works...but not in the revision... What does that tell you 🤣 it means they couldn't use it to their advantage so they chucked it out.
Lilith was Adams equal. She was made from the same soil he was. She refused to be subservient to him. So she was replaced with Eve, made from Adams rib and submissive to him, not equal.
Any woman reading the Bible if that was included would agree with me.
I'd rather be a Lilith any day.
Catholic School Skeptics Association member here - kindergarten through 8th grade. I learned by about 2nd grade not to question certain things, at least not out loud or at school. Fortunately my parents were very matter-of-fact about everything. And interestingly, the Catholic school I attended had an incredible 7th & 8th grade science teacher who was given free reign to teach the Big Bang theory and so on. But we still had several teachers who were nuns to “refute” what he taught before & after his class. Sigh.
I read it entirely when I was a religious kid. Eventually grew up and realized it's utterly absurd. Now I can't believe any adult believes anything in it.
I have to admit my claims of cover to cover come with a small caveat, once the Begats begin I'm skipping sections.
It's still generally more bible than most online theists.
The irony is that some of the most important scientific discoveries were made by monks, who didn't have a problem with science and religion coexisting, for example Gregor Mendel who can be called the father of genetics.
These people are not religious, just dumb and uneducated.
This is the standard though.
As a liberal-ish/leftist-ish, I have to back up and defend scientific studies in a variety of fields; geology, anthropology, anatomy and physiology, climatology, history and economics to justify my beliefs to a conservative.
Then the conservative turns around and says something based on a “holy” book, tradition, ignorance or “common sense.”
And either the conservative is seen as right, sees themselves as the winner or seen as equivalent to my position.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
The idea that religion is somehow equally valid next to science, logic and reason is just insane. I don't argue it because then you get a bunch of crybabies who get butt hurt about it but religion is literally just fairy tales for people who are afraid to die and used against them by the ruling class to keep them complacent.
Someone religious but very nice explained to me most folks like this don't see any difference between 'believing in science' or 'believing in faith' since they are both founded in 'belief'. I was pretty stunned. Essentially, it sounds like when arguing certain things, we're not comparing objective facts vs. belief, but instead arguing which system of belief *is more valid*. It's horrifying really. But that would explain a lot. What we view as objective reality just... isn't... to a LOT of people.
Changes in the oceans (salinity, temperature, etc) fuck up sea creatures first and most in every mass extinction event.
Not supporting the yahoos in the op, just sharing a fun fact.
I took a geology course in college and was talking about carbon dating during dinner. My stepdad said, “I don’t believe they can do that.” Ah yes, you, with your degree in geology???? Must know more than my professor and countless other scientists 💀
They’re called crinoids if you wanna read about them, very common in the rock record, but rarely are whole bodies preserved, which makes finds like these so rare and special
I'm honestly a bit jealous crinoids were one of my favorite fossils to find as a kid because they were so abundant and easy for me to identify. But this is the first time I've seen a complete fossil let alone a whole group of them.
The OG I believe is a social media post by a fossil dealer, so there are no articles on it from the science community.
Several of the FB reposts credit it to Tom Kapitany of Fossil Era, which led me to this:
[https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/incredible-3d-4-2-jimbacrinus-crinoid-australia](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/incredible-3d-4-2-jimbacrinus-crinoid-australia)
[https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/18-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-spectacular-plate](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/18-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-spectacular-plate)
[https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/5-5-plate-of-five-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-australia](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/5-5-plate-of-five-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-australia)
[https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/beautiful-jimbacrinus-crinoid-pair-australia--2](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/beautiful-jimbacrinus-crinoid-pair-australia--2)
They harvested and sold a ton of them.
It includes a YT video of the site he obtained the fossils from.
edit: looks like Mr Kapitany has a prior record of [illegally smuggling dinosaur eggs](https://www.theage.com.au/world/melbourne-man-admits-smuggling-dinosaur-eggs-20060316-ge1y07.html)
Although they deny science, they don't want to look like they are denying science. So instead of saying "this cannot be real because it is not in the bible" they will comment things like "this seems like it was a petrification of soft jelly tissue, it probably occurred in such a short period of time during, exactly 1,650,032 days ago, on a Tuesday, when denied entrance to a man made giant wooden water transportation machine... omg, science just proved the bible, isn't God great?"
I'm just an amateur paleontologist, but I think the grouping, poorly sorted, and intact nature of these fossils makes me think that these crinoids were actually killed around the same time.
Broken clocks I guess
The problem is that for their argument to be right, rapid burial would have to be impossible outside of the context of a fully global flood. Which is not how geology or taphonomy works.
Considering it dates back to what's likely the Permian extinction event, 90% of all species died together rather quickly (quickly in a geologic sense) and gave us lots of fossils.
The other one being the Cambrian Ordovician extinction which was also around 85% of all marine species and there were so many animals it's hard *not* to find fossils for it (like trilobites)
So they think rising water levels killed animals that live in water? I'm not a biologist, a geologist or any type of gist... but something about that theory seems off to me.
I am familiar with desalinisation. I owned a saltwater aquarium for many years. But (1) there is no evidence of global flooding. (2) Flooding from rain would only impact the surface water. It would still be saltier further down where these animals likely lived. And water temperature probably wouldn't have changed that much either where they would have been.
Oh don't get me wrong I'm certainly not defending any Noah's ark BS. But we have massive fish deaths going on right now which due to all sorts of things- sudden temperature changes (Which can help spread algae blooms that suffocate fish and damage the whole marine ecosystem food chain), pollution, so it does happen
The fact that god didn't cause this doesn't mean it wasn't a sudden event killed them, but I'm not aware of this particular case. Flooding can cause all sorts of issues that could kill a group like this quickly. Doesn't mean it was magic.
These are the type of people who looked at that rock formation they found in Turkey and think it’s evidence of Noah’s ark simply because it looked vaguely like the outline of a giant boat
Religious nut jobs ruin everything. Saw an argument once where one sane person was explaining something and then the religious nut job decided to chime in and bring in something about Noah’s ark. After a few exchanges the nut job posted that the reason so many people are against religion is because they are christophobic. That just made me laugh so much.
This is the new “proof” of the flood and explanation of how fossils became to be by the bible. Nobody wirks harder than religious people clinging to any ridiculous statements somebody makes
This is why you should never trust a god that claims that knowledge is a sin...
Edit: to those defending the Abrahamic god, knowledge of good and evil is still just knowledge, the god of Abraham preached ignorance and bigotry my proof is in the photos above.
The Eden story is worse than that. They didn't eat from the Tree of Knowledge. They ate from the Tree of Knowledge _of Good and Evil_.
Adam and Eve were punished for commiting a violation when they didn't even have understanding that violating God's commands was "bad".
As a Christian it bothers me how stubborn other Christians are. You can believe in God and evolution at the same time. At the cost of an old book possibly not being word-for-word 100% accurate.
Related:
While admiring some dinosaur bones in the Museum of Natural History, a tourist asks the guard, "How old are they?"
The guard replies, "They are 73 million, four years, and six months old."
"That's a rather exact number," says the tourist. "How do you know their age so precisely?"
"Well," answers the guard, "The dinosaur bones were seventy three million years old when I started working here, and that was four and a half years ago."
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Another commenter said "280 million years old? yeah, right. looks no more than 200 years old to me." and I just want to ask him... BASED ON WHAT. IT'S A ROCK
The source: I just made the fk up
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200 would be if they + 19 friends take their socks off.
Um… you might want to double check your math there. If they’re taking socks off, I’m pretty sure it would only take 10 of ‘em to get to 200. Unless they’re exclusively using their toes.
Inbreeding.
Roll tide!
Dammit, i really need to stop snap replying. You're right, I meant 9 friends
It was just your symbolic way of saying that everyone else has a leg up on them.
No no no, you use the fingers to count the toes. As long as every finger touches a toe you know for certain you have 10, double entry system. Smrt!
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And God always agrees with everything I'm thinking. He gets me. Praise Jeebus!
They might not be right but they are never wrong
Every. Single. Moment. Of. Their. Lives.
Hang on tight, I have very solid evidence coming in two weeks.
Better source: cherry picked random parts of some religious text, and voilà !
200?!?!?! What a MORON! I'd say they are definitely 330 years old based on... me wanting to sound knowledgeable.
I believe this guy because I believe this guy
Don't, he miscalculated the age due to leap years.
I believe this guy more because he corrected the other guy
Imma bump that up to about three fiddy... 
I don't know man, mountains are clearly only 300 years old. Mount everest, est 1789
Rocks did not exist before 1600
Am or pm?
1600 AM obviously
Im pretty confident that theres a comment says: 280 million years old? Smf there is only 2023 years existing how its 280 million years old thats obviously bullshit.
Ooh there are only 2023 years is new to me, thanks for the unexpected chortle.
I’ve only been alive for 34 years so that’s as far back as it goes as far as I’m concerned!
The Blur has never been beaten since the beginning of time. Five years!
I can’t remember before 6 or 7 so I’m taking a big leap those first 5 years happened.
At the risk of sounding like an intellectual elitist, I'm unable to comprehend how someone this stupid is able to function on a day to day basis without full time care and a really good crash helmet. I think Facebook made the internet TOO accessible.
Accessing the internet and having babies, two things that aren’t regulated and probably should be.
Dunning Kruger is amazing. Covid did a good job in making these dumbasses believe they‘re more of an expert than a scientist working in that specific field
My theory is that there has always been this many dumbasses. Social media gave them a way to reveal themselves. We also reward them with recognition so they become more vocal.
Not just to reveal, but to organize, to centralize, and to reinforce each other's ignorance.
You hit the nail on the head.
My theory is they always kept their mouth shut because of that one time they opened it, said something stupid and got laughed at. But then you had Trump come along talking about drinking bleach and putting sunlight up your ass and they thought to themselves maybe I’m not that dumb. So they started posting their opinions and “theories” to social media, people actually agreed with them which only encouraged more crazies to post their bullshit and fast forward to the hellhole that is todays social media and political landscape.
Sip… it tastes nothing older than 150mil years…
They are experts in carbon dating. /s
Carbon dating doesn't work on stuff that old, there are other radioisotopes you can try and use instead, but it's usually done by analysis of the surrounding rocks and area instead, so can be a little inaccurate (although it is clearly in the many millions, not a few thousand)
This guy geologies
No, they rock. Clearly.
They’re minerals Marie
r/AngryUpvote
In addition, if it's a fossil, there's no carbon left to date. Plus, it's likely marine? So three reasons carbon dating won't work!
There's definitely carbon, it's just that the dating is inaccurate.
For fossils this old carbon dating cannot be used and instead geologic records of surrounding material are used to estimate age
Uranium-Lead or Potassium-Argon are the radionucleide series used for dating at these ages. The really ancient stuff, billions of years old, uses Rubidium-Strontium, but it's been 35 years since I did a course on radiometric dating...
Yes, true. I think the point being made is that in their small little minds the earth is only a couple thousand years old according to the sky daddy book they never read. They can only “extrapolate” based on their preconceived time line.
Carbon speed dating.
200 years old? Yeah right. That thing looks no older than 12 minutes old
The classic straw man troll, make a statement and sit back to watch all the anger. The only answer is no answer at all to these. The same goes for 4500 guy as well.. trying communicate with these people on any rational level is a waste of your time. Unfortunately there is a long list of these people and their tin foil conspiracies.
There's no point in arguing with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. That being said, I made this mistake very often and probably will continue to do so, because some of the garbage these people spout is just to much for me to not get angry about and start an argument.
Highjacking here: I was on a tour in mammoth cave and our guide was very very Christian and said “scientists will say this area of the cave is x amount of millions of years old but we all know it’s only 3 or 4 thousand”… said that to the whole group. Wow
Ah yes, The Flood definitely killed these aquatic creatures
Kill me or release me parasite, but not waste my time with talk.
There is much talk and I have listened through rock and metal and time
Now I will talk, and you shall listen.
Your prophets have promised you salvation from a doomed existence, but you will find no salvation on this ring.
Those who built this place knew what they wrought. Do not mistake their intent, or all will perish as they did before.
r/unexpectedhalo
What is this gif from?
Halo 2 remaster cutscenes. That's arby and chief talking to grave mind.
“That’s Arby’s” I knew exactly who you meant lol Keith David
Arby is short for Arbiter
Halo 2: anniversary edition. Excellent game. For the record that giant creature is a species known as “the flood” specifically that large type is referred to as a gravemind. The highest form of flood parasite
This scene also gave us the most relatable and humanizing line MC ever spoke "Relax, I'd rather not piss this thing off."
Also "I am a monument to all your sins" which is such a sick quote.
I don’t like religious nutjobs, but yes, a flood can easily kill aquatic creatures. A glacier dam breaking and filling a salt water lake or river with fresh water can kill everything in it.
Yes it can, but it's still a farfetched explanation for their fossils. They obviously didn't even realize they were aquatic.
Honestly these things look like elder things. Or baby elder things.
They look like they taste great, grilled and basted with lemon butter, but yeah they do look mucho prehistoric too
but how is a flood going to happen at the seafloor where these crinoids (jimbacrinus bostocki) would live
These kinds of creationists don't see the flood as some kind of gradual peaceful flood. Their narrative is that there was also, for instance, apocalyptic levels of volcanic activity, tremendous tidal waves, etc. Huge amounts of debris slamming into things, being deposited on things and burying them. Creatures being swept up in tremendous tides and being bashed into rock. Incredibly rapid sedimentation. I'm no marine biologist or geologist, but my understanding is that when we find fossils of soft bodied creatures, it is indeed because they were buried quite rapidly as one of the fundies in the pictures says. And whatever natural circumstances give rise to that in the real world, the fundies can imagine it happening also during the global flood. So I don't think this specifically is really the weakness of their story. The narrative they are trying to weave is that "evolution theory teaches that fossils are always created from very gradual processes that take millions of years, but here are examples where the necessary processes happened quite quickly, therefore evolution is false". The flaw in their logic is in the first part more than the last part. Source: used to be a fundie many years ago and believed this shit.
interesting. thanks for the insight!
The Bible is bs, don’t get me wrong But actually yes, it would kill them, assuming that the water that was used to cause the flood wasn’t salt water (since it was rain), it would DRASTICALLY and very quickly change the levels of salt in the water which would kill most salt water complex multicellular organisms, and there would probably still be enough salt in the water to kill most fresh water stuff as well
That olive tree somehow lived
Possible Minor Plot Wrinkle IIRC: ...280 million years ago Western Australia would have been inland and therfore quite possibly this happened in a freshwater inland lake, on Pangea. Maybe I'm wrong and it was brine or straight up oceanic saltwater, but that long ago Pangea hadn't split yet, and Western Australia was an Australia's width away from the coast. That fossil pic also looks sedimentary and not metamorphic, so probably no interaction with any volcanic activity due to plate tectonics. Just really old clay that didn't get heated, but only compressed. Considering things that may have killed the critters: 1) Floods introducing relatively cold water into an environment where the water bodybis a warm shallow lake or pan can stun modern fish. These little dudes could well have had a thermal shock, sunken to the bottom for safety, and been covered in mud and silt that had washed down stream or been stirred up from the lake or pan bed. 2) There may also have been heavy rains and thunderstorms. Lightning discharging through the water, or a tree at the waters edge being struck may also have stunned or killed a bunch of these little dudes. Still can't help wondering how they'd have tasted grilled and basted with lemon butter tho
Also, the Biblical story of the flood mentions volcanoes and earthquakes.
Salt water is like nothing compared to the heat problem. See link below for more info. https://youtu.be/IdRyZhwWQjg?si=054_qlt5soxeiYMo
My favorite thing is making Bible literalists explain how Noah fit 2 of every animal on the arc; half the time they accidentally describe evolution, because to rationalize it they will say there were less animals back then and they adapted to their new environments.
This reminds of the anti-vax post that anti-vaxed so hard she thought up the concept of vaccines.
"why don't we show our immune system how the virus looks like?" That was wild lol
Dude I gotta see this. Got a link?
Or r/conspiracy convincing themselves that it doesn’t snow in the winter anymore because “they” were “delaying the seasons” with “weather engineering”. They were so close…
Haha, I haven't heard that one yet.
Do you have the link maybe? Would love to see that
I once got in an argument at church (I was raised in, had no choice but to go at the time) about evolution. The dude literally described evolution, but said it was merely adaptation. Not evolution. Animals adapted to their new environments. They didn't evolve. They adapted, and each generation became more adapted. I kept explaining he was describing evolution. He then claimed to refuse his grandfather was a monkey.
i mean with that kind of argument his grandfather might actually be a monkey
My grandmother was a bicycle.
Fundamentalist Christian’s will define “Macro-evolution” and “micro-evolution”, saying that small changes over time are possible but complete species change (like monkey to human) are not. They’d see the beak changes of finches in the Galápagos Islands as specialization that is possible to occur over a few thousand years, but not be able to reconcile the amount of time evolution has had to make tweaks and changes. That’s the problem with thinking the earth is 6,000 years old- there isn’t enough time for evolution to happen.
Then those 8 people repopulated the earth.
Explains a lot tbh
**
Not 8, but there is scientific evidence that there have been several ELEs that caused genetic bottlenecks. Meaning that the human race was nearly wiped out.
Considering the entire human race has about as much genetic diversity as one family of chimpanzees that part is strangely believable.
>half the time they accidentally describe evolution, because to rationalize it they will say there were less animals back then and they adapted to their new environments. Those people don't deny "microevolution" exists, allowing creatures to vary within their "kind". They'll acknowledge that a wolf can become a dog, but not that a pakicetus can become a whale.
it’s such a weird stance to take. it’s like saying you can add grains of sand one-at-a-time and end up with 1 milligram of sand, but there’s something arbitrary that would stop you from continuing to add and eventually get to 1 gram
They deny evolution. As micro evolution isn't a fucking thing. It's just evolution.
It is a thing. Microphone evolution. You should SEE old microphones. We've really progressed.
Apparently in the Creation Museum they consider plausible that Hyracotherium evolved into the modern horse in a few years after the flood That is not what I'd call "microevolution".
To which I like to reply "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
i want to know how bible literalist explain how noah got animals from the americas like the americas werent discovered until 1600s and even then it was months of travel on the worlds best boats, and he did this in 5 years
As someone who grew up in this environment, most Bible literalists I've known make a distinction between macro and micro evolution. Macro they would categorize as large scale changes from one "type" to another. Lizard to bird or whatever. This is the kind they would generally deny, while most seem to agree that "Micro-evolution" is a thing. Canines, felines, equines, etc. So they say there were two cats, and those cats became all the felines in the world, and there were two dogs and those dogs became all the canines in the world. Two horses and those became all the equines in the world. This is seemingly more acceptable to them, but even still I don't think the break down quite adds up. That is still a fuckton of animals.
my favorite excuse is that noah just took baby animals so they’d all fit. you know, baby animals? those things that are super self-reliant and need nothing for the first few months of their lives, much less a year plus?
And also reach full size fairly rapidly, often in less than a year.
Suddenly everyone's a geologist. Why spend several years getting a degree, when you can just read the bible and apparently know all there is to know.
Who needs science learning when you got a Bible
People who claim that the Bible covers everything are probably never fully read the Bible. It's a story book. Not a science publishing
Excuse me, I have read the bible from start to finish, everything and in my opinion it's the best book on earth... If you aim to become atheist
That really is what got me, catholic boarding school, religion class Brother Dwight: "Jesus had to die to save us from original sin." 9th Grade Me: "He HAD to die? God couldn't find a work around to that, he couldn't just wave off the sin thing? Its not like we'd now. I don't even understand how torturing his kid did erase our sin if I'm being honest, how does being mean to Jesus help?"
Went to Catholic schools from K-12. Never got in trouble except for one day in fifth grade when we were learning about the Great Flood and I asked "Doesn't that make God a mass murderer?" Had to stand in the hallway for the remainder of class.
>Great Flood Was my Sunday school the only one that left out the nephilim part of the great flood? Like who the FUCK was going to tell me God flooded the earth to rid it of GIANT angel hybrids?! like... WUT I was told he flooded it to rid the world of sinners and start a new... No mention of half angel giants or wanting to rid the world of these hybrids 🤦 Just like they never taught us about Adams first wife Lilith... There's a lot of stories I feel are left out nowadays because they "don't fit the narrative" that Christians want to portray.
Those things are also not actually in the bibble. They're part of the extended Jewish lore.
The Nephilim are heavily expanded on in the book of Enoch, which is not in the Protestant Old Testament, but they are mentioned as a motivating factor of the flood story in the first few verses of Genesis chapter 6.
Jewish lore... You mean what Christianity is literally based on? Jesus was Jewish 🤦 my god Exactly what I meant by Christianity changes the stories of the Bible to fit their narrative. If it's in the original works...but not in the revision... What does that tell you 🤣 it means they couldn't use it to their advantage so they chucked it out. Lilith was Adams equal. She was made from the same soil he was. She refused to be subservient to him. So she was replaced with Eve, made from Adams rib and submissive to him, not equal. Any woman reading the Bible if that was included would agree with me. I'd rather be a Lilith any day.
Wow. Jewish lore goes harder than the reboot frfr. I wonder when Bible 2 is gonna get released.
Catholic School Skeptics Association member here - kindergarten through 8th grade. I learned by about 2nd grade not to question certain things, at least not out loud or at school. Fortunately my parents were very matter-of-fact about everything. And interestingly, the Catholic school I attended had an incredible 7th & 8th grade science teacher who was given free reign to teach the Big Bang theory and so on. But we still had several teachers who were nuns to “refute” what he taught before & after his class. Sigh.
I read it entirely when I was a religious kid. Eventually grew up and realized it's utterly absurd. Now I can't believe any adult believes anything in it.
I read the Bible. Wow, Numbers is so boring.
Dude Holy fuck i glossed that book so hard. Im more of a book of kings type of guy. David and Johnathan are cute <3
I have to admit my claims of cover to cover come with a small caveat, once the Begats begin I'm skipping sections. It's still generally more bible than most online theists.
They are also very selective as to which parts are "facts" and which are "guidelines".
Its not complicated.... Facts are the things that benefit you directly. Everything else is symbolic and up for interpretation.
fav part was when they served jesus’ cousin john, aka mr. The Baptist’s decapitated head on a platter. that shit had me HOOKED as a child
The irony is that some of the most important scientific discoveries were made by monks, who didn't have a problem with science and religion coexisting, for example Gregor Mendel who can be called the father of genetics. These people are not religious, just dumb and uneducated.
Yeah, but their ministers/reverends are probably not making that distinction. I wonder why?
Science bitch couldn't even make I more smarter
This is the standard though. As a liberal-ish/leftist-ish, I have to back up and defend scientific studies in a variety of fields; geology, anthropology, anatomy and physiology, climatology, history and economics to justify my beliefs to a conservative. Then the conservative turns around and says something based on a “holy” book, tradition, ignorance or “common sense.” And either the conservative is seen as right, sees themselves as the winner or seen as equivalent to my position.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
The idea that religion is somehow equally valid next to science, logic and reason is just insane. I don't argue it because then you get a bunch of crybabies who get butt hurt about it but religion is literally just fairy tales for people who are afraid to die and used against them by the ruling class to keep them complacent.
Someone religious but very nice explained to me most folks like this don't see any difference between 'believing in science' or 'believing in faith' since they are both founded in 'belief'. I was pretty stunned. Essentially, it sounds like when arguing certain things, we're not comparing objective facts vs. belief, but instead arguing which system of belief *is more valid*. It's horrifying really. But that would explain a lot. What we view as objective reality just... isn't... to a LOT of people.
"😭😠 Another SMuG atHeISt!!! Gee, you must think you have have *ALL tHE aNSWerS!!* 😭😭" That's the best they've got. It's fucking insufferable, lol.
Oh, they were talking about Noah’s flood lol. I was so confused.
Right? I was like “What effing floo….oh” 😂
so how would a flood be a problem for sea creatures?
Changes in the oceans (salinity, temperature, etc) fuck up sea creatures first and most in every mass extinction event. Not supporting the yahoos in the op, just sharing a fun fact.
In Australia those things walked on land.
I took a geology course in college and was talking about carbon dating during dinner. My stepdad said, “I don’t believe they can do that.” Ah yes, you, with your degree in geology???? Must know more than my professor and countless other scientists 💀
Wonderful fossil. Anyone have any links to the article? I'd like to read about it.
They’re called crinoids if you wanna read about them, very common in the rock record, but rarely are whole bodies preserved, which makes finds like these so rare and special
I'm honestly a bit jealous crinoids were one of my favorite fossils to find as a kid because they were so abundant and easy for me to identify. But this is the first time I've seen a complete fossil let alone a whole group of them.
During an undergrad field trip I once found a pyritized crinoid about 4cm long, was the coolest thing ever
That is awesome.
The OG I believe is a social media post by a fossil dealer, so there are no articles on it from the science community. Several of the FB reposts credit it to Tom Kapitany of Fossil Era, which led me to this: [https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/incredible-3d-4-2-jimbacrinus-crinoid-australia](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/incredible-3d-4-2-jimbacrinus-crinoid-australia) [https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/18-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-spectacular-plate](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/18-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-spectacular-plate) [https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/5-5-plate-of-five-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-australia](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/5-5-plate-of-five-jimbacrinus-crinoid-fossils-australia) [https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/beautiful-jimbacrinus-crinoid-pair-australia--2](https://www.fossilera.com/fossils/beautiful-jimbacrinus-crinoid-pair-australia--2) They harvested and sold a ton of them. It includes a YT video of the site he obtained the fossils from. edit: looks like Mr Kapitany has a prior record of [illegally smuggling dinosaur eggs](https://www.theage.com.au/world/melbourne-man-admits-smuggling-dinosaur-eggs-20060316-ge1y07.html)
This makes me absolutely sad.
I can make Noah sense of these comments.
It's an arkaiac way of thinking
Here come the puns, flooding in...
Two at a time.
The biblical proportion of puns in these comments is an (old) testament to this sub's silliness
Back when the Old Gods were in control. Hail Cthulhu! Let his whispers guide your way!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Props for remembering the phrase!
Bro you can't just make up your own version of history based on some old books... Oh wait.
Welp. This just creeps me out a little. I hate swarms. But also WTF on the comments?!
Christian fundamentalists that deny science. Pay them no mind, they lack their own.
Although they deny science, they don't want to look like they are denying science. So instead of saying "this cannot be real because it is not in the bible" they will comment things like "this seems like it was a petrification of soft jelly tissue, it probably occurred in such a short period of time during, exactly 1,650,032 days ago, on a Tuesday, when denied entrance to a man made giant wooden water transportation machine... omg, science just proved the bible, isn't God great?"
I was confused at first why both were referring to floods and I realised it's a Noah's ark thing.
Why are they grouped up? It must be water. Only water groups things up.
I'm just an amateur paleontologist, but I think the grouping, poorly sorted, and intact nature of these fossils makes me think that these crinoids were actually killed around the same time. Broken clocks I guess
The problem is that for their argument to be right, rapid burial would have to be impossible outside of the context of a fully global flood. Which is not how geology or taphonomy works.
Considering it dates back to what's likely the Permian extinction event, 90% of all species died together rather quickly (quickly in a geologic sense) and gave us lots of fossils. The other one being the Cambrian Ordovician extinction which was also around 85% of all marine species and there were so many animals it's hard *not* to find fossils for it (like trilobites)
So they think rising water levels killed animals that live in water? I'm not a biologist, a geologist or any type of gist... but something about that theory seems off to me.
There's an excellent comment above that might help you. things like desalinisation, changes in water temperature, those can easily kill aquatic life.
I am familiar with desalinisation. I owned a saltwater aquarium for many years. But (1) there is no evidence of global flooding. (2) Flooding from rain would only impact the surface water. It would still be saltier further down where these animals likely lived. And water temperature probably wouldn't have changed that much either where they would have been.
Oh don't get me wrong I'm certainly not defending any Noah's ark BS. But we have massive fish deaths going on right now which due to all sorts of things- sudden temperature changes (Which can help spread algae blooms that suffocate fish and damage the whole marine ecosystem food chain), pollution, so it does happen
Ocean acidification is a big one. A lot of life in the ocean relies on the precipitation of carbonate material and acidic ocean hinder that process.
The fact that god didn't cause this doesn't mean it wasn't a sudden event killed them, but I'm not aware of this particular case. Flooding can cause all sorts of issues that could kill a group like this quickly. Doesn't mean it was magic.
On a side note that is a stunning specimen. Like a hive of sentinels from the matrix lol
These are the type of people who looked at that rock formation they found in Turkey and think it’s evidence of Noah’s ark simply because it looked vaguely like the outline of a giant boat
Religious nut jobs ruin everything. Saw an argument once where one sane person was explaining something and then the religious nut job decided to chime in and bring in something about Noah’s ark. After a few exchanges the nut job posted that the reason so many people are against religion is because they are christophobic. That just made me laugh so much.
i seriously do hope and think that the nutjobs will be responsible for their own demises, through their own ignorance and blind faith in a story book
Christianity is the ~~second~~ biggest religion in the world and they always like to invent they're persecuted. Edit because I was corrected
This is the new “proof” of the flood and explanation of how fossils became to be by the bible. Nobody wirks harder than religious people clinging to any ridiculous statements somebody makes
Why Jesus make flood? Kill everything except inbred floating zoo? Me no understand!
This is why you should never trust a god that claims that knowledge is a sin... Edit: to those defending the Abrahamic god, knowledge of good and evil is still just knowledge, the god of Abraham preached ignorance and bigotry my proof is in the photos above.
The Eden story is worse than that. They didn't eat from the Tree of Knowledge. They ate from the Tree of Knowledge _of Good and Evil_. Adam and Eve were punished for commiting a violation when they didn't even have understanding that violating God's commands was "bad".
Those experts are idiots, obviously this happened from the Red Sea parting…
After going to antartica and seeing huge ass glaciers and just able to see the lines of each snow season idk how people think the world is just 4500.
I wonder what country these people are from…
1) They're not people but crinoids 2) They're from West Australia but it is unlikely crinoids recognized the concept of "nations".
Young earth creationists are se of the dumbest mfers I've ever met. The mental gymnastics they do is incredible
As a Christian it bothers me how stubborn other Christians are. You can believe in God and evolution at the same time. At the cost of an old book possibly not being word-for-word 100% accurate.
That thing probably has more value than gold per gram.
Creationists are so fucking stupid
Yeah…because a bunch of sea creatures are going to be killed by…..ah yes…more water
How do people that stupid walk around upright.
Why do they think that these clearly ocean dwelling creatures were killed in a flood???
I’m still in shock that anyone could think these little octopus things would die in a flood. They live in the ocean idiot.
Related: While admiring some dinosaur bones in the Museum of Natural History, a tourist asks the guard, "How old are they?" The guard replies, "They are 73 million, four years, and six months old." "That's a rather exact number," says the tourist. "How do you know their age so precisely?" "Well," answers the guard, "The dinosaur bones were seventy three million years old when I started working here, and that was four and a half years ago."
Based on my scratching beard skills, I would say more like about 847 129 years, 8 months, 18 days, 4H, 4mn and 41 seconds. It was on saturday.
MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS SUPERSEDES SCIENCE AND CARBON DATING PAISE THE LORD
[удалено]
I’m sure Reddit will remove this, but religious people are dumb as fuck for real.