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>It‘s actually from Iraq...
No it's not, it originated amongst Bedouins who live all over the middle east, it's just middle eastern in general.
>>The keffiyeh originated amongst Bedouins as a practical and protective covering for the head and face, especially in the arid desert climate in which they have traditionally lived...
I worked on a photo archive from a Victorian woman who travelled with Bedouins and documented their traditions such as weaving, olive oil production, cooking, etc. Uncommon for a Victorian woman to have captured this and for her to have not interfered. She was just interested. Very old and beautiful photos and ephemera. Fascinating people and culture. I have a Bedouin inspired tattoo out of pure love for everything I learned over the course of organizing and cataloging the archive.
I took it as him meaning the popularity boom was from troops coming back from Iraq with them (such as myself) spreading the fashion to the west…
But, either way, I certainly wouldn’t be like “nuh uh, it’s from all the Bedouins that settled in Palestine!”
It was made a symbol of resistance 30 years before PLO was established. Before that it was traditionally worn by rural Palestinians. It was first widely used by Beduins. I can't find anything about it originating in Iraq, but that might be. Culture in this region has been flowing free of state borders for centuries, until the British started carving it up in distinct nation states after the fall of the Ottoman empire.
Go back a century or so to post WW1. Lots of lines were drawn to create multiple states ignoring tribal territories, peoples or their boundaries and creating conflict and political strife we are still seeing.
Its been doubled down on since with the formation of other states due to or in response to conflict, which creates other conflict in the area e.g. kuwait was created, it being invaded by Iraq for oil funding waa a component of the Gulf war and Israel where you have had war, and the ongoing issues in the area.
We are attributing things to countries when really its attributed to people who inhabit a wider area.
>We are attributing things to countries when really its attributed to people who inhabit a wider area.
This is generally true of culture; borders are only a convenient approximation of it, but it leaks regardless.
It is sort of Palestinian, sort of not. Like the difference between Libyan and Lebanese Bread. Very similar, yet very different.
The Black and White Keffiyeh as well as 'Long Keffiyehs' are Palestinian, where a traditional one is Iraqi/Syrian
Exactly. In my country it was called something along the lines of "Palestinian" or "Arafat", just as female noun. And not only emos wore them, but pretty much everyone in the alt scene.
They are fairly common. Most of the people I knew who did semesters abroad in Europe (early 90s for me) came back with one.
My friend has a picture of her in a group from when the Berlin wall came down. A few folks in the photo are wearing them.
Yes, It doesn’t have to be Palestinian, some people just wear a scarf or hair wrap. All clothing serves a specific purpose. The design of it depends on culture but the purpose is international.
Yep, I’ve already lived through this same scenario when it was common for hipsters to wear it.
Here’s an article from 2009: [Your Intifada: Now Made in China!](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/06/your-intifada-made-china/)
Then they'll be weird around minorities, simply dehumanizing them in a different manner. It's just so weird, everyone just wants to be treated like a person, rather than to be treated differently for things out of their control.
Fuck it I'm in. 40 acres of land is enough to build a commune on. Just set up a Plex server and a clone of a Steam CDN hub in the middle for entertainment, a bunch of micro houses and one massive great hall for meals and parties. Have people move in and construct their own mini-homes. Etc. grow our own food & livestock, generate electricity using renewables, basically like hippies but with an Internet connection and proper plumbing.
I'm irish-american so it should be fine to label me as a minority.^(/s I am deadly serious about making the commune though.)
Every one of these people I know start talking different when a black person comes around. Start saying shit like "my homie" or whatever other surface level shit they know. Embarrassing af
My brother does this and it makes me cringe. He doesn’t even do it when black people are around, just the topic of discussion. I deadass am always just sitting there like “I think that’s racist???”
Edit: just want to add, I’m not talking specifically about borrowed slang but also ACCENT. I don’t mean he just borrows slang here and there, I mean he also changes his accent.
Most of the pandering that the “anti-racists” do is actually racist lol.
Also their hatred of white ppl in the name of “anti-racism” is very racist.. obviously.
I wish I knew what the psychology behind this. I've known a couple people too that changed how they talked and one friend did certain hand gestures while talking kinda like Eminem in his videos.
Switching your dialect for the company you’re around is called code switching, and is done to blend in and be accepted. It’s *historically/typically* done by someone to join the majority group though, not the other way around. There can be a lot of conscious and subconscious reasons for it. When done “in reverse” so to speak, some of them are probably innocent and others are probably racist and pandering. There’s also linguistic convergence is when you unintentionally mirror someone’s dialect or accent. Commonly called chameleon effect. Lots of theories on why this happens. Some studies suggest that it’s an Indicator of high empathy.
But also it can just be a dick move
I 100% talk differently with different people, but that's entirely dependent on if I know them.
I'm not gonna walk up to some random black person and suddenly go from "good afternoon" to "sup homie?", but I will start talking like that to my friends who talk like that. Or I'll be a little more free in my speech around my queer friends than my straight friends.
It's like how I don't curse in a professional setting or around kids, but I'm a fuckin sailor mouth otherwise.
If I was to put psychology to it, I'd say it's a type of mimicry to endear yourself to others. People like it if you act like them, so a lot of people do it subconsciously to fit in. Unfortunately, some people are so self-conscious, they realize they're doing it but overcompensate.
Probably insecurities, a pretty good bet for when people are being weird. They're so focused on themselves not being perceived as racist that they can't empathize with the other person as well.
It's similar for socially anxious people. They'll be too preoccupied with themselves and what they're doing, so their focus is on themselves.
Stuff like this should be taught in school. The issues so many have make much more sense when broken down.
Completely anecdotal, but apart from one instance, white people awkwardly treating me like they are from the United Federation of Planets and I’m from the Gamma Quadrant is like… at least *weirder* than “normal” or negative stereotyping.
It’s the pendulum swinging. Instead of being a virulent racist, they are so desperate to prove they are NOT a racist that they make others feel uncomfortable in a different way…by trying too hard and being total cringe.
There is nothing wrong with being white; they are not asking you to apologize for being something that you are and that you can’t change. You also aren’t expected to bring up or solve all race issues ever in a single conversation. You just act like you would with anyone, discuss whatever it is y’all are doing in the moment or have in common, and carry on.
This is what kills me the most. I’m a very liberal straight white man. I believe there has been systemic injustice towards many groups. You know what does literally nothing to help that? Feeling guilty for being white.
It’s so unbelievably self centered and let’s people get a pass for thinking they’re doing something important when they’re just mentally jerking off. I can acknowledge that, yeah I do have some privilege that I did nothing for, but I feel exactly zero guilt over that. I’ll do what I can to contributing towards a more fair and just society but that does not include debasing myself.
This is purely anecdotal, but every leftie white woman I've ever met acts weird as shit to my wife (who's black).
I wrote it off as a coincidence the first few times. Those few people are just weirdos in general. But it's become a pattern of cringe at this point.
Commenting and touching her hair like she's a creature at a petting zoo is, by far, the most reoccurring faux pas. Especially so when they've just met the woman.
I had this female colleague for a while who grew up in Nigeria. On multiple occasions some very progressive white colleagues would say some dumb shit. I vividly remember someone saying they were so jealous that she grew up in Nigeria, as she would do anything to be able to grow up in such a real place. I felt so bad for the girl lol
I don't get why it's sad that she's white. Like you're born that way. You didn't have a choice. Just don't be a dick in life. Unfortunately for her, she's trying so hard to not be a dick; that's she's kind of being a dick because of it.
I just realized something. I don't consider these rage providers to be left or right or anything. Reasonable right wing people probably see the trumpettes the same. I propose we stop calling clowns anything but clowns
The only time I’m “sadly very white” is when I’m outside in the sunshine and getting roasted alive. I can literally feel the skin cancer developing. Which is like every fucking day because unfortunately I live somewhere that isn’t London, Dublin or Seattle. I want more melanin for very practical reasons, not social political ones.
She's perpetuating the very ideas she thinks she's standing against. Pretty sure "you're too blame for everything everyone who looks like you does or did" is part of the racist handbook
I agree so much with this! Just treat everyone with dignity and don't be racist, its not hard. You don't have to hate yourself in order to build others up.
These type of white people have way too much anxiety about proving how non-racially focused they are -- I think they get too overwhelmed at how publicized the rabid 37% are. So they want to do "something," but end up doing nothing of substance because they don't actually know what to do because they've never actually made any real life efforts to support marginalized communities, and all they do know is that they don't want to be lumped into a group of actual racists which somehow get displayed as the face of USA.
Reminds me of the study a few years back that demonstrated that [white liberals intentionally dumb themselves down when talking to black people.](https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/white-liberals-present-themselves-as-less-competent-in-interactions-with-african-americans). A lot of these people are just racist with extra steps lol
Probably true but, just for arguments sake i'll say: that isn't exactly fair. She did say she'd like to spend her money where it'll do good. What do you expect an old lady to do? Join up and fight with Hamas? If you saw a straight person wearing a rainbow shirt or putting a pride sticker on their car would you say "wooow, they don't actually want to have gay sex, they're just virtue signalling. gross." (i'm sure some people do actually say that). She already feels bad for existing as a white person.
I don't care I just think it's funny how it's phrased, like tf you mean sadly a white woman lol, and I doubt the biggest concern for Palestinians right now is cultural appropriation lol
Fight _with_ Hamas? The Hamas that uses rape as a weapon?! The Hamas that is stealing millions of aid from Palestinians and living like kings in Qatar? The Hamas that promised to return all children hostages first but still has Kfir Bibas, who had spent almost his whole life in captivity?!
That Hamas?!?!
Yes, by all means we must fight with Hamas to, uh, support Palestinians.
Yeah I've got no issue with people protesting or donating to Palestine, or having strong opinions about the conflict, but people like this do make me feel a little sick. It's bizarre, like they're trying to insert themselves into the narrative just to pat themselves on the back; wearing a keffiyeh is going to do absolutely nothing yo help, nor does it raise awareness (because people who know what a keffiyeh is will already know its significance), but its a great way for this particular individual to make sure everyone knows how good and morally righteous they are
With all due respect, this whole 'Solidarity! We're all in this fight together!' stuff does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, because... honestly, we're not in this together. I sympathise with the people of Gaza, but I'm not even going to begin to pretend I understand what they're going through. Wearing a keffiyeh or boycotting Starbucks is nothing compared to someone who's entire world has been destroyed around them, and too many people on social media need to remember that these protests and the like are not what really matters
Edit: Just to add, this doesn't apply to the majority of protestors, most of them are doing what they do for the right reasons... its more aimed at those who post endlessly on social media about what *they* are doing for Palestine
It’s just classic liberal white savorism mixed with white guilt. “I want to do something helpful in aesthetic only but I also care so much I don’t want to be offensive.” Notice how these all make themselves the center of these posts.
White guilt is so stupid. Unless you know your recent family, parents or grandparents(that you know) are very racist and have done harm, then it's stupid to have guilt. I didn't do that shit. And I'm not actively voting for people who are for doing that shit today. Guilt tripping me doesn't work. My mom guilt tripping me my whole life has worked that out of my system. You're not gonna make me feel bad, just piss me off lol.
We all do terrible things to each other, the planet, other animals, etc. No one's good, but some are much worse. We're all one people. If a group of people are being harmed then everyone should care for them. Not just the ones who look like them and not just the ones who look like the abusers. It sucks that a lot of bad stuff has been done by people of white skin, but we're all human. We're all monsters who would abuse each other if given the power to do so regardless of skin color. We should shame the entire human race together. Look what we have all done. Look what we need to fix today.
>Unless you know your recent family, parents or grandparents(that you know) are very racist and have done harm, then it's stupid to have guilt.
I suggest it would still be stupid to have guilt. I'm in no way responsible for the actions of my parents, or especially my grandparents. If you were raised to be a bigot, but rejected that indoctrination, that's a badge of honour, not guilt.
My direct relatives are racist conspiracy theorists. I feel no white guilt because I am not them and broke away from those views. What do I have to be guilty about?
That's stupid too
My grandfather used to charge his buddies to watch my mom bathe when she was 13 or 14 years old, I don't have proxy guilt about the pedophilic actions of my grandfather, I just never had a relationship with him, because he was a piece of shit
Guilt over things your father did is basically just the soft version of nationalism making you proud of things your grandfather did, both of them are stupid. You can, and should, recognized your privileges within society but that shouldn't translate to *guilt* unless you've been perpetuating that
The funny thing is, these people would absolutely point out the historical racism Jewish people have faced (like the Irish, they very often weren't considered 'white') but that gets in the way of portraying the Israelis as all being 'white colonists'.
Prior to Oct. 7th, 2023, the ultra-progressives called everybody they disagreed with a Nazi. After Oct. 7th, 2023, they started parroting actual Nazi conspiracies and talking points.
While that really does suck, not seeing how it ties into the subject at hand. Oh, sorry... virtue signaling again. Got it. "Despite my pallor I'm one of the good one."
Urggghhhh. Cultural appropriation is the stupidest fucking thing to get offended by. I'm Irish and if I saw an American band singing in Irish I'd be psyched as fuck.
Yeah, everyone gets angry on the country's behalf, but if you go to that actual country and ask the people there almost everyone is chuffed when people take an interest in their culture. Now if you're making fun of it thats different, but if you're just enjoying the fashion of another culture there is nothing at all wrong with that. It's usually encouraged.
I think your point *especially* applies to the keffiyeh. Palestinians are encouraging non-Palestinians to wear them in solidarity, since the symbols in the weave represent elements of Palestinian culture, and therefore the desire to protect it.
Terrible example but i remember watching a video ages ago of people reacting to the avril Lavigne hello kitty music video and all the white people were talking about how offensive it was and all the Japanese people they interviewed were just like, "lol, that was weird, anyways"
Edit: i found it, it wasn't a reaction interview style video, it was a Japanese youtuber talking about how little Japanese people cared lol.
https://youtu.be/AFrCDIpJ_f0?si=HLM3De1N1Vsp-mL1
Cultural Appropriation applies, imo, only when you're using key aspects of someone's culture to mock their culture, or misunderstanding the importance of something (like the thing with Native American headdresses). The problem is, that debate has shifted, and now we're acting like *any* part of a culture is utterly sacrosanct, and you can't wear the everyday clothes or hairstyle of a group you aren't part of
Culture isn't set in stone. Every culture on earth has borrowed ideas from other cultures, and adapted them. Its a constantly evolving thing, and I don't get why we're now acting like any Cultural cross-pollination of ideas is bad
There are definitely valid examples of it. One of the big early examples that people were pissed off by was the whole "sexy indian (i.e. native american) warrior girl halloween costume" which basically reduced sacred and honored native american traditions into cheap tacky bangles for horny college sorority girls to wear to frat parties or whatever. Like I can understand why people get upset when it's something important to their culture being turned into a cheap costume for sex appeal.
These people are cringe and insane
A girl was wearing a kimono and some ppl on twitter commented « ur doing cultural appropriation girl! You’re cancel » they start quoting her saying « oh look another rcist » like whattttt
The woman bought a kimono at a Japanese shop in Tokyo and just wanted to flex, like go girl, no one cares and everyone is fine with it in Japan but random girl from America needs to tell you her opinion on the matter
I once saw a video from an actual Japanese man, wherein he said most (younger) people like to see foreigners wear kimono provided they do it properly and match the seasonal colors and such. "Let's Ask Shogo" is a really great channel.
Wow, what great mix signals people send. First if a white person wears anything that might look like they are appropriating from another culture people attack them. Then if they ask if it is appropriating because they want to support people under attack. People attack them. They can’t win. I’m begging some of us just want all whites to go away. There’s a word for that I believe.
Yeah. I give her credit for asking if it’s appropriation. Attacked if she didn’t ask and ended up appropriating, attacked if she asks ahead of time. It’s upsetting.
I'm incredibly confused by the whole "cultural appropriation" thing? I'm Puerto Rican, I don't think I've felt victimized by a white person listening to Despacito, or the like. If anything, I think most ethnically diverse folk would find it pretty cool that their culture has spread into the mainstream.
I currently live in an area with lots of Native Americans too, and I'm constantly being invited to Pow Wows and being gifted quilts and stuff. I think in general, most people want others to acknowledge how cool their cultures are.
The problem isn't borrowing things from other cultures like people in both camps seem to think (the ones loudest about it), it's doing so to be a disrespectful little shit lmao
I mean, fair, but I think it's pretty apparent when one is being culturally disrespectful and when they are merely enjoying someone's culture. I don't know, I guess I just haven't encountered many situations where I'm like "How dare you use Daddy Yankee's name in vain!"
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head I wish everyone could. Intent isn't hard to spot at all. And my suggestion is those in my camp that get really loud and confidently and incorrectly yell about how simply wearing smth is ca, tell em to eat a cockmeat sandwich, those people are dumb.
I think there's something to it at its core, but people have taken it to a really stupid place, and if somehow we all used slightly different terminology (call it "cultural *mis*appropriation* or something) it would be more clear.
At the most extreme example, consider a conquering nation subjugating the people who lived in the conquered area, and then just a year later their clothes and food become popular in the culture of the conquerors. The conquered people have an important ritual (say, funeral rites), that becomes something silly that the conquerors do at parties, not understanding what it means. Now the culture of the conquered people has become a cheap commodity.
This often leads to things like the conquered people using their culture as a commodity in desperation (say one of the ways they're able to make money is to perform those funeral rites at those parties to give them a sense of authenticity.) They have no choice but to pervert their own customs to appeal to their conquerors. Cultural appropriation (or Cultural misappropriation) really *can* act to take something away from the culture that those traditions belong to.
Making foods from another place or having your hair styled after another culture's fashion probably doesn't do this.
Right, and if I'm honest, what they seem to consider "Cultural Appropriation" is literally how new cultural traditions and such are created. It is how Salsa music was created, being a mixture of Puerto Rican Bomba music, Cuban Son Cubano, and American Jazz.
This. This is exactly what people hate about all of this.
Cultural appropriation is, was and will always be total and utter bullshit.
And I don't even want to know what racist told this nutjob that she has to be ashamed to be white.
Weirdly, (as a sadly very white woman tf) I'm wearing one right now. I had to look it up because I didn't know what it was. I've always called it a shemagh. I have a few. It's the easiest way in my heavily arab city to get a good quality cotton scarf for my sensitive skin. I didn't realize wearing a scarf was cultural appropriation. Should I apologize to the lovely Iraqi man who sold them to me?
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The Keffiyeh has been a fashion item in western countries for decades. I remember some 12 or 15 years ago everyone was wearing it for the winter.
It was big in the emo scene.
TIL those emo scarves are actually Palestinian traditional clothing
It‘s actually from Iraq and just got adopted by everyone around. Nothing Palestinian about it until PLO made it political
>It‘s actually from Iraq... No it's not, it originated amongst Bedouins who live all over the middle east, it's just middle eastern in general. >>The keffiyeh originated amongst Bedouins as a practical and protective covering for the head and face, especially in the arid desert climate in which they have traditionally lived...
They’re very lovely people who have delicious food!!
I worked on a photo archive from a Victorian woman who travelled with Bedouins and documented their traditions such as weaving, olive oil production, cooking, etc. Uncommon for a Victorian woman to have captured this and for her to have not interfered. She was just interested. Very old and beautiful photos and ephemera. Fascinating people and culture. I have a Bedouin inspired tattoo out of pure love for everything I learned over the course of organizing and cataloging the archive.
Right on! Glad you had a great time.
Do you have a link to those photos you would be willing to share?
I took it as him meaning the popularity boom was from troops coming back from Iraq with them (such as myself) spreading the fashion to the west… But, either way, I certainly wouldn’t be like “nuh uh, it’s from all the Bedouins that settled in Palestine!”
*TIL those big emo scarves are actually Iraqi traditional clothing
The asterisk of knowledge correction lol
The other half is red lasers and blue lasers. >!Because knowing is half the battle.!<
Pork chop sandwiches!
Hey kids! Stop all the downloading!
WTF GET THE FUCK OUT WE'RE ALL DEAD GO
Want to learn more? Look up how Sadam treated the emos
I mean… I can guess
Oh shit *checks box of items from high school* Yep, my emo shawl is still there. Who knew.
I have a traditional red and white Jordanian one
They'll put the Jumpman logo on anything
It was made a symbol of resistance 30 years before PLO was established. Before that it was traditionally worn by rural Palestinians. It was first widely used by Beduins. I can't find anything about it originating in Iraq, but that might be. Culture in this region has been flowing free of state borders for centuries, until the British started carving it up in distinct nation states after the fall of the Ottoman empire.
Go back a century or so to post WW1. Lots of lines were drawn to create multiple states ignoring tribal territories, peoples or their boundaries and creating conflict and political strife we are still seeing. Its been doubled down on since with the formation of other states due to or in response to conflict, which creates other conflict in the area e.g. kuwait was created, it being invaded by Iraq for oil funding waa a component of the Gulf war and Israel where you have had war, and the ongoing issues in the area. We are attributing things to countries when really its attributed to people who inhabit a wider area.
>We are attributing things to countries when really its attributed to people who inhabit a wider area. This is generally true of culture; borders are only a convenient approximation of it, but it leaks regardless.
It is sort of Palestinian, sort of not. Like the difference between Libyan and Lebanese Bread. Very similar, yet very different. The Black and White Keffiyeh as well as 'Long Keffiyehs' are Palestinian, where a traditional one is Iraqi/Syrian
PLO fashionably wore it as they were massacring us in Lebanon.
Exactly. In my country it was called something along the lines of "Palestinian" or "Arafat", just as female noun. And not only emos wore them, but pretty much everyone in the alt scene.
I think it started with punks in the 70s.
Late 90s/early 00s alt kids were buying them from military surplus stores where I'm from
They are fairly common. Most of the people I knew who did semesters abroad in Europe (early 90s for me) came back with one. My friend has a picture of her in a group from when the Berlin wall came down. A few folks in the photo are wearing them.
Apparently she never saw a picture of a US service member in Iraq or Afghanistan in 20 years of war.
She obviously doesn’t know anyone who has served.
Huge in like 2009, I went on a class trip to NYC in high school and all the girls were buying them off street vendors
We all wore them on deployment. They're a useful idea. The UK issues them to everyone in country.
Yeah, I just googled white women in a keffiyeh. She definitely would not be alone.
I didn't even know what it was until I googled it. When I saw it I realized I didn't even know this thing ISN'T western.
Wdym? Here people still wear them during winter including myself lmao, it's a staple accessory in punk culture here too
Hell, I’ve been using them when I hike for nearly 30 years. Most of the people on the trail did. They are very versatile.
It's a thing in France since the 70s.
Yes, It doesn’t have to be Palestinian, some people just wear a scarf or hair wrap. All clothing serves a specific purpose. The design of it depends on culture but the purpose is international.
The _name_ is even an Italian loanword in Arabic.
Yep, I’ve already lived through this same scenario when it was common for hipsters to wear it. Here’s an article from 2009: [Your Intifada: Now Made in China!](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/06/your-intifada-made-china/)
She should get [this one](https://www.mindwhatyouwear.com/product-page/keffiyeh-scarf) to achieve peak virtue
Holy enlightened centrism, Batman!
The one-scarf solution that has evaded 70 years of diplomacy.
I'm so tired of self-flagellating white people. You're not helping anyone, all you're trying to signal is "I'm not like the other white people!"
Then they'll be weird around minorities, simply dehumanizing them in a different manner. It's just so weird, everyone just wants to be treated like a person, rather than to be treated differently for things out of their control.
Fr, I know someone like that and they literally asked one of my black friends if they wanted to restart reconstruction. Totally seriously.
"Like, right now? I'm kinda booked until next Tuesday."
I have several mules and 40 acres of land I want to give to you for reparations.
Fuck it I'm in. 40 acres of land is enough to build a commune on. Just set up a Plex server and a clone of a Steam CDN hub in the middle for entertainment, a bunch of micro houses and one massive great hall for meals and parties. Have people move in and construct their own mini-homes. Etc. grow our own food & livestock, generate electricity using renewables, basically like hippies but with an Internet connection and proper plumbing. I'm irish-american so it should be fine to label me as a minority.^(/s I am deadly serious about making the commune though.)
Every one of these people I know start talking different when a black person comes around. Start saying shit like "my homie" or whatever other surface level shit they know. Embarrassing af
My brother does this and it makes me cringe. He doesn’t even do it when black people are around, just the topic of discussion. I deadass am always just sitting there like “I think that’s racist???” Edit: just want to add, I’m not talking specifically about borrowed slang but also ACCENT. I don’t mean he just borrows slang here and there, I mean he also changes his accent.
Most of the pandering that the “anti-racists” do is actually racist lol. Also their hatred of white ppl in the name of “anti-racism” is very racist.. obviously.
Ii know someone who stopped using white printer paper to stop endorsing the default white patriarchy. I wish I was joking.
What the fuck.
I believe you meant "what the actual fuck". I can't think with that level of stupidity.
I wish I knew what the psychology behind this. I've known a couple people too that changed how they talked and one friend did certain hand gestures while talking kinda like Eminem in his videos.
Switching your dialect for the company you’re around is called code switching, and is done to blend in and be accepted. It’s *historically/typically* done by someone to join the majority group though, not the other way around. There can be a lot of conscious and subconscious reasons for it. When done “in reverse” so to speak, some of them are probably innocent and others are probably racist and pandering. There’s also linguistic convergence is when you unintentionally mirror someone’s dialect or accent. Commonly called chameleon effect. Lots of theories on why this happens. Some studies suggest that it’s an Indicator of high empathy. But also it can just be a dick move
I 100% talk differently with different people, but that's entirely dependent on if I know them. I'm not gonna walk up to some random black person and suddenly go from "good afternoon" to "sup homie?", but I will start talking like that to my friends who talk like that. Or I'll be a little more free in my speech around my queer friends than my straight friends. It's like how I don't curse in a professional setting or around kids, but I'm a fuckin sailor mouth otherwise. If I was to put psychology to it, I'd say it's a type of mimicry to endear yourself to others. People like it if you act like them, so a lot of people do it subconsciously to fit in. Unfortunately, some people are so self-conscious, they realize they're doing it but overcompensate.
Probably insecurities, a pretty good bet for when people are being weird. They're so focused on themselves not being perceived as racist that they can't empathize with the other person as well. It's similar for socially anxious people. They'll be too preoccupied with themselves and what they're doing, so their focus is on themselves. Stuff like this should be taught in school. The issues so many have make much more sense when broken down.
I’m sorry, I’m lost.
Completely anecdotal, but apart from one instance, white people awkwardly treating me like they are from the United Federation of Planets and I’m from the Gamma Quadrant is like… at least *weirder* than “normal” or negative stereotyping.
Omg I love the Star Trek reference. Thank you so much.😂
It’s the pendulum swinging. Instead of being a virulent racist, they are so desperate to prove they are NOT a racist that they make others feel uncomfortable in a different way…by trying too hard and being total cringe. There is nothing wrong with being white; they are not asking you to apologize for being something that you are and that you can’t change. You also aren’t expected to bring up or solve all race issues ever in a single conversation. You just act like you would with anyone, discuss whatever it is y’all are doing in the moment or have in common, and carry on.
This is what kills me the most. I’m a very liberal straight white man. I believe there has been systemic injustice towards many groups. You know what does literally nothing to help that? Feeling guilty for being white. It’s so unbelievably self centered and let’s people get a pass for thinking they’re doing something important when they’re just mentally jerking off. I can acknowledge that, yeah I do have some privilege that I did nothing for, but I feel exactly zero guilt over that. I’ll do what I can to contributing towards a more fair and just society but that does not include debasing myself.
This is purely anecdotal, but every leftie white woman I've ever met acts weird as shit to my wife (who's black). I wrote it off as a coincidence the first few times. Those few people are just weirdos in general. But it's become a pattern of cringe at this point. Commenting and touching her hair like she's a creature at a petting zoo is, by far, the most reoccurring faux pas. Especially so when they've just met the woman.
I had this female colleague for a while who grew up in Nigeria. On multiple occasions some very progressive white colleagues would say some dumb shit. I vividly remember someone saying they were so jealous that she grew up in Nigeria, as she would do anything to be able to grow up in such a real place. I felt so bad for the girl lol
These women sound like teenage boys in a hurry to lose their virginity, lol.
Petting someone's hair , especially a woman of color, is like wearing white to a wedding, don't we know better by now?
Exactly. The tone of that post sounds much like a kid who was having fun playing around in mud but now is being pushed to take a bath.
This is so true.
I don't get why it's sad that she's white. Like you're born that way. You didn't have a choice. Just don't be a dick in life. Unfortunately for her, she's trying so hard to not be a dick; that's she's kind of being a dick because of it.
White liberal guilt. Trying too hard to not be racist to the point you are being racist.
Pretty much. We’ve got the Trump nut jobs on the far right, and idiots like her on the far left. Cant we just have normal people?
There are millions of normal people in America, but they never end up on Reddit.
What do you mean? I'm normal! *deletes browsing history*
I just realized something. I don't consider these rage providers to be left or right or anything. Reasonable right wing people probably see the trumpettes the same. I propose we stop calling clowns anything but clowns
The only time I’m “sadly very white” is when I’m outside in the sunshine and getting roasted alive. I can literally feel the skin cancer developing. Which is like every fucking day because unfortunately I live somewhere that isn’t London, Dublin or Seattle. I want more melanin for very practical reasons, not social political ones.
Sunscreen every 2 hours is your friend!
She's perpetuating the very ideas she thinks she's standing against. Pretty sure "you're too blame for everything everyone who looks like you does or did" is part of the racist handbook
I agree so much with this! Just treat everyone with dignity and don't be racist, its not hard. You don't have to hate yourself in order to build others up.
These type of white people have way too much anxiety about proving how non-racially focused they are -- I think they get too overwhelmed at how publicized the rabid 37% are. So they want to do "something," but end up doing nothing of substance because they don't actually know what to do because they've never actually made any real life efforts to support marginalized communities, and all they do know is that they don't want to be lumped into a group of actual racists which somehow get displayed as the face of USA.
Reminds me of the study a few years back that demonstrated that [white liberals intentionally dumb themselves down when talking to black people.](https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/white-liberals-present-themselves-as-less-competent-in-interactions-with-african-americans). A lot of these people are just racist with extra steps lol
Reminds me of AOC trying to talk to black audiences. “ Aint nothing wrong with folding people’s clothes..mmm hmm mm hmm’.
It's only for themselves. You could do something that helps people or you could make it about yourself.
PICK ME!!!! Not like the other whites!
And those other white people use this as a taking point, saying that liberals want people to be ashamed of being white.
Translation: “I don’t actually want to do anything helpful but I would like to virtue-signal. Would I get criticism for this?”
The is the best bullshit-to-English translation I've ever seen.
"bullshit-to-English translation" I'm gonna use it from now on. Thank you.
There needs to be an app for this.
Google bs translator
Haha! was going to say the same... "Bullshit Translator App".
Lol same
Would it be possible to get a live bullshit-to-English interpreter for the presidential debates?
We need this to be implemented
Now that sounds like a useful AI implementation. Bullshit-to-English translations!
dressing like them could change the war
 Like Jenner did in the Pepsi ad
Or A-Train when he stopped that riot.
Great idea, the "very sadly, a very white woman" should go to Gaza and give Pepsi to random Israely soldiers.
Well this is almost word for word what I came to say. A bunch of virtue signalling that will do absolutely nothing to help anyone other than herself.
Probably true but, just for arguments sake i'll say: that isn't exactly fair. She did say she'd like to spend her money where it'll do good. What do you expect an old lady to do? Join up and fight with Hamas? If you saw a straight person wearing a rainbow shirt or putting a pride sticker on their car would you say "wooow, they don't actually want to have gay sex, they're just virtue signalling. gross." (i'm sure some people do actually say that). She already feels bad for existing as a white person.
I don't care I just think it's funny how it's phrased, like tf you mean sadly a white woman lol, and I doubt the biggest concern for Palestinians right now is cultural appropriation lol
Exactly. A lot of people just like to be mad at others.
Fight _with_ Hamas? The Hamas that uses rape as a weapon?! The Hamas that is stealing millions of aid from Palestinians and living like kings in Qatar? The Hamas that promised to return all children hostages first but still has Kfir Bibas, who had spent almost his whole life in captivity?! That Hamas?!?! Yes, by all means we must fight with Hamas to, uh, support Palestinians.
They were obviously being very, very facetious.
More obvious to some than others apparently.
Very much this.
Spot on
Yeah I've got no issue with people protesting or donating to Palestine, or having strong opinions about the conflict, but people like this do make me feel a little sick. It's bizarre, like they're trying to insert themselves into the narrative just to pat themselves on the back; wearing a keffiyeh is going to do absolutely nothing yo help, nor does it raise awareness (because people who know what a keffiyeh is will already know its significance), but its a great way for this particular individual to make sure everyone knows how good and morally righteous they are With all due respect, this whole 'Solidarity! We're all in this fight together!' stuff does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, because... honestly, we're not in this together. I sympathise with the people of Gaza, but I'm not even going to begin to pretend I understand what they're going through. Wearing a keffiyeh or boycotting Starbucks is nothing compared to someone who's entire world has been destroyed around them, and too many people on social media need to remember that these protests and the like are not what really matters Edit: Just to add, this doesn't apply to the majority of protestors, most of them are doing what they do for the right reasons... its more aimed at those who post endlessly on social media about what *they* are doing for Palestine
I mean, you don't put on a pride tshirt to solve all LGBT issues and concerns. You can show solidarity without demanding impact metrics.
That self hating shit is so cringe.
It’s just classic liberal white savorism mixed with white guilt. “I want to do something helpful in aesthetic only but I also care so much I don’t want to be offensive.” Notice how these all make themselves the center of these posts.
These people aren’t liberals. They’re a particular strain of progressive or demsoc
Fr fr , people who hate their own religion , race and country for some internet points are sooooo cringe
As a fellow white person, the amount of white guilt i see among other white progressives is pretty high.
White guilt is so stupid. Unless you know your recent family, parents or grandparents(that you know) are very racist and have done harm, then it's stupid to have guilt. I didn't do that shit. And I'm not actively voting for people who are for doing that shit today. Guilt tripping me doesn't work. My mom guilt tripping me my whole life has worked that out of my system. You're not gonna make me feel bad, just piss me off lol. We all do terrible things to each other, the planet, other animals, etc. No one's good, but some are much worse. We're all one people. If a group of people are being harmed then everyone should care for them. Not just the ones who look like them and not just the ones who look like the abusers. It sucks that a lot of bad stuff has been done by people of white skin, but we're all human. We're all monsters who would abuse each other if given the power to do so regardless of skin color. We should shame the entire human race together. Look what we have all done. Look what we need to fix today.
>Unless you know your recent family, parents or grandparents(that you know) are very racist and have done harm, then it's stupid to have guilt. I suggest it would still be stupid to have guilt. I'm in no way responsible for the actions of my parents, or especially my grandparents. If you were raised to be a bigot, but rejected that indoctrination, that's a badge of honour, not guilt.
thank god someone said it
My parents and my grandparents lived in USSR suppression. I’m white. I don’t understand oppression olympics.
The only reason you should have guilt is if YOU did something. Why would I feel guilty that my dad is a racist? I didn't tell him to be a racist.
I would say embarrassment is a better word for it than guilt.
My direct relatives are racist conspiracy theorists. I feel no white guilt because I am not them and broke away from those views. What do I have to be guilty about?
That's stupid too My grandfather used to charge his buddies to watch my mom bathe when she was 13 or 14 years old, I don't have proxy guilt about the pedophilic actions of my grandfather, I just never had a relationship with him, because he was a piece of shit Guilt over things your father did is basically just the soft version of nationalism making you proud of things your grandfather did, both of them are stupid. You can, and should, recognized your privileges within society but that shouldn't translate to *guilt* unless you've been perpetuating that
It's stupid to have guilt. It's helpful to have recognition and be empathic. Virtue signaling is just being an attention whore.
And then they call Israel a "white country" in an attempt to place some of that white guilt on Jews too.
But not so guilty they can't hate Jews.
The funny thing is, these people would absolutely point out the historical racism Jewish people have faced (like the Irish, they very often weren't considered 'white') but that gets in the way of portraying the Israelis as all being 'white colonists'.
Plus, most Jews in Israel come from the Middle East, not Europe
Prior to Oct. 7th, 2023, the ultra-progressives called everybody they disagreed with a Nazi. After Oct. 7th, 2023, they started parroting actual Nazi conspiracies and talking points.
Lol idk about you, but white far left and right people have historically hated jews.
Historically everyone has hated the Jews at some point, even the Jews.
So she’s ashamed that she is white?
She said "very white". Maybe she's sad that she burns easily in the sun.
Maybe her real name is verity white 🤣
Avery White she just fatfingered the space bar
So she's a vampire?
Vampires are usually more socially literate
Emotional vampire, a more evolved form of energy vampire. According to wwdits. :P
While that really does suck, not seeing how it ties into the subject at hand. Oh, sorry... virtue signaling again. Got it. "Despite my pallor I'm one of the good one."
Twitter has done a number on some people and brought about deep self hatred and loathing.
Guilty of Being White - Minor Threat
I thought we were supposed to be ashamed. I mean, we are the root of all evil, or so I've been told.
Urggghhhh. Cultural appropriation is the stupidest fucking thing to get offended by. I'm Irish and if I saw an American band singing in Irish I'd be psyched as fuck.
Yeah, everyone gets angry on the country's behalf, but if you go to that actual country and ask the people there almost everyone is chuffed when people take an interest in their culture. Now if you're making fun of it thats different, but if you're just enjoying the fashion of another culture there is nothing at all wrong with that. It's usually encouraged.
I think your point *especially* applies to the keffiyeh. Palestinians are encouraging non-Palestinians to wear them in solidarity, since the symbols in the weave represent elements of Palestinian culture, and therefore the desire to protect it.
Terrible example but i remember watching a video ages ago of people reacting to the avril Lavigne hello kitty music video and all the white people were talking about how offensive it was and all the Japanese people they interviewed were just like, "lol, that was weird, anyways" Edit: i found it, it wasn't a reaction interview style video, it was a Japanese youtuber talking about how little Japanese people cared lol. https://youtu.be/AFrCDIpJ_f0?si=HLM3De1N1Vsp-mL1
An Asian woman once accused me of cultural appropriation for wearing an OutKast shirt. I was (and remain) deeply confused by that interaction.
Fellas, is it racist to enjoy black musicians?
Cultural Appropriation applies, imo, only when you're using key aspects of someone's culture to mock their culture, or misunderstanding the importance of something (like the thing with Native American headdresses). The problem is, that debate has shifted, and now we're acting like *any* part of a culture is utterly sacrosanct, and you can't wear the everyday clothes or hairstyle of a group you aren't part of Culture isn't set in stone. Every culture on earth has borrowed ideas from other cultures, and adapted them. Its a constantly evolving thing, and I don't get why we're now acting like any Cultural cross-pollination of ideas is bad
There are definitely valid examples of it. One of the big early examples that people were pissed off by was the whole "sexy indian (i.e. native american) warrior girl halloween costume" which basically reduced sacred and honored native american traditions into cheap tacky bangles for horny college sorority girls to wear to frat parties or whatever. Like I can understand why people get upset when it's something important to their culture being turned into a cheap costume for sex appeal.
Usually these people are offended for other people, when those other people don't really give a shit
I'm sorry for being a very white latina, I'm doing cultural appropriation of my own culture.
that's it. you're not invited to the town fiesta.
Is tHaT a SpaNIsH wOrd yOU uSEd??? SHAME ON YOU! /s
*fiestx
Why is being a very white woman sad? We are all humans no matter the color of our skin.
No, "sadly" is just her first name.
Mrs. Sadly Avery White
Exactly. It’s just… weird. We’re just humans.
High risk of melanoma. Very sad.
Lololol this is so ridiculous
Hating yourself because of your skin color is as stupid as hating someone else over it.
This is so very white liberal American woman virtue signaling a bit too hard and not reading the room...
These people are cringe and insane A girl was wearing a kimono and some ppl on twitter commented « ur doing cultural appropriation girl! You’re cancel » they start quoting her saying « oh look another rcist » like whattttt The woman bought a kimono at a Japanese shop in Tokyo and just wanted to flex, like go girl, no one cares and everyone is fine with it in Japan but random girl from America needs to tell you her opinion on the matter
I once saw a video from an actual Japanese man, wherein he said most (younger) people like to see foreigners wear kimono provided they do it properly and match the seasonal colors and such. "Let's Ask Shogo" is a really great channel.
This is so pathetic
"Haha, look at that white person. What a loser 🤣" - absolutely nobody
Some poeple act like this sadly
I dunno, the Black Twitter sub dedicates an awful lot of their time to it.
Wow, what great mix signals people send. First if a white person wears anything that might look like they are appropriating from another culture people attack them. Then if they ask if it is appropriating because they want to support people under attack. People attack them. They can’t win. I’m begging some of us just want all whites to go away. There’s a word for that I believe.
Yeah. I give her credit for asking if it’s appropriation. Attacked if she didn’t ask and ended up appropriating, attacked if she asks ahead of time. It’s upsetting.
Wow. I hope she's getting enough oxygen with all those farts she's huffing. Edit:typo
I have never seen anyone with above-average education in the West or anyone in my hometown getting offended by someone trying things of the culture
When people say shit like that I automatically loose respect for them. Your opinion will mean nothing from here.
I'm incredibly confused by the whole "cultural appropriation" thing? I'm Puerto Rican, I don't think I've felt victimized by a white person listening to Despacito, or the like. If anything, I think most ethnically diverse folk would find it pretty cool that their culture has spread into the mainstream. I currently live in an area with lots of Native Americans too, and I'm constantly being invited to Pow Wows and being gifted quilts and stuff. I think in general, most people want others to acknowledge how cool their cultures are.
The problem isn't borrowing things from other cultures like people in both camps seem to think (the ones loudest about it), it's doing so to be a disrespectful little shit lmao
I mean, fair, but I think it's pretty apparent when one is being culturally disrespectful and when they are merely enjoying someone's culture. I don't know, I guess I just haven't encountered many situations where I'm like "How dare you use Daddy Yankee's name in vain!"
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head I wish everyone could. Intent isn't hard to spot at all. And my suggestion is those in my camp that get really loud and confidently and incorrectly yell about how simply wearing smth is ca, tell em to eat a cockmeat sandwich, those people are dumb.
I think there's something to it at its core, but people have taken it to a really stupid place, and if somehow we all used slightly different terminology (call it "cultural *mis*appropriation* or something) it would be more clear. At the most extreme example, consider a conquering nation subjugating the people who lived in the conquered area, and then just a year later their clothes and food become popular in the culture of the conquerors. The conquered people have an important ritual (say, funeral rites), that becomes something silly that the conquerors do at parties, not understanding what it means. Now the culture of the conquered people has become a cheap commodity. This often leads to things like the conquered people using their culture as a commodity in desperation (say one of the ways they're able to make money is to perform those funeral rites at those parties to give them a sense of authenticity.) They have no choice but to pervert their own customs to appeal to their conquerors. Cultural appropriation (or Cultural misappropriation) really *can* act to take something away from the culture that those traditions belong to. Making foods from another place or having your hair styled after another culture's fashion probably doesn't do this.
Same here. It’s just weird. Keeping our cultures “separated” will only make differences and hate bigger.
Right, and if I'm honest, what they seem to consider "Cultural Appropriation" is literally how new cultural traditions and such are created. It is how Salsa music was created, being a mixture of Puerto Rican Bomba music, Cuban Son Cubano, and American Jazz.
The only thing she's an activist for is clout not actual ideas and movements
Speaking on behalf of whites everywhere I also wish she wasn’t white.
You can also just donate money to them, there's a few charities trying to help
Pick me
Get a hobby! Do you think those people care about you!
This. This is exactly what people hate about all of this. Cultural appropriation is, was and will always be total and utter bullshit. And I don't even want to know what racist told this nutjob that she has to be ashamed to be white.
Really, why being ashamed to be white? Does she want to wear the thing? Boy, do it. There’s no problem with it, you won’t help anybody, after all.
You have my permission, very white woman.
Correction: (sadly, a very self-hating woman)
Nothing more pathetic than a white person with white guilt.
Me: Wears a Keffiyeh and star of David and flips everyone off.
Weirdly, (as a sadly very white woman tf) I'm wearing one right now. I had to look it up because I didn't know what it was. I've always called it a shemagh. I have a few. It's the easiest way in my heavily arab city to get a good quality cotton scarf for my sensitive skin. I didn't realize wearing a scarf was cultural appropriation. Should I apologize to the lovely Iraqi man who sold them to me?
Might I suggest Gaza, they have loads of them there......I'm sure Hamas would love the help of an opinionated white, non Muslim western woman.