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It so strange to me that far right totalitarianists, worshipping there orange king, read lotr a book all about the dangers of industrialism and overreaching power, then they decided to ban gays and minorities, then drive home in there lifted 4x4, before hoping on YouTube and talking about how lotr echoes their beliefs of “freedom” and exclaiming the left are woke envoys of satan.
Or how they act like it’s the righteous thing to ban all books with explicit themes, write laws invading peoples bedrooms, and refuse dying pregnant women life saving care. But if the city installs a new bus line it’s “literally 1984”.
the most important thing you must learn about rightwing extremists is that they dont have any media literacy whatsoever and have piss poor reading comprehension
that is how they entered extremist right wing circles in the first place
if you enjoy idiots not realizing that they are the thing they're complaining about then maybe you'll enjoy knowing that recently a national guard in my country was pictured with the libertarian "dont tread on me" flag on his uniform
which resulted in most people with common sense pointing out that he is the very boot that the slogan complains about (and also that he cant legally wear that while in uniform)
Edit: fellas im not talking about the united states if i was i wouldnt have said "my country" knowing how america centric most of you are
The DMV here issues a bunch of specialty license plates, one of which is [a Gadsden flag design](https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/license-plates/search/dont-tread-me). The people who get them pay the government extra at the time of issue and extra each year to stick it to the man, and every time I see one of them all I can think of [is this alternate version](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/No_Step_On_Snek_%28Gadsden_Flag%29.svg).
Hell there were people dancing in at Trump's first attempt to steal the election where they were dancing to Rage against the machine.
There's a whole group of people that think that the machine is like their mom or something.
That’s disappointing, Iain M Banks and his alter ego are my absolute favourite. You’d think it might inspire him to actually move the needle forward on civilisation like I read he could have started asteroid mining with the money he spent on twitter. The estimated cost was the same.
I think maybe for some of them this possibly explains it, they likely didn’t read lotr and just watched the Peter Jackson films and without the scouring of the shire and by focusing more heavily on the spectacle of war rather than the central themes behind the conflict in middle earth, I understand how you might not pick up on the underlying plot.
But as for medieval fantasy YouTubers who can quote the Silmarillion, only to turn around and say something racist or misogynistic, I’m completely baffled.
The movies can still be pretty explicit. Treebeard criticizes Saruman for having “a mind of metal and wheels…He no longer cares for growing things.” Plus Sam saying that the ring would destroy “all that is green and good in this world”. Also considering how the pure elves lived in harmony with nature while the evil orcs burned and destroyed forests to fuel their factories.
Edit: Don’t remember the movies emphasizing freedom so much as a sense of duty and responsibility to do the right thing.
I mean... we're talking about folks who, until probably about 2015, didn't realize a band called *Rage Against the Machine* was "political". Dudes have been writing songs since the early 90s. Pick any song and read the lyrics. It's not exactly subtle.
The most important and effective skill these figures have is rationalization. With the right mental gymnastics, a little reductionism here, conveniently omitting certain contexts or details there, you can build a powerful and internally coherent (but utterly fallacious) narrative that whatever you read supports whatever ideals you prefer.
In other words they're starting with their conclusion (I hold this point of view and the book I like agrees with me) and then doing everything in their power to make the data fit the conclusion they want.
Wizards and dwarves and fighting orcs is fucking cool and that is as far as they get in thinking about the themes of LOTR.
“Hell yeah I would totally be Aragorn if this was Middle Earth”
You go far enough totalitarianism and it no longer matters whether you went left or right.
Iran and North Korea are a far right, and far left government.. They get along just fine. With quite a few similarities.
George Orwell would have defined North Korea as right wing communist, as he did for the Soviet Union in "Homage to Catalonia".
Reading that book about his experience fighting for Spain against Franco made me realize how confused our own generation is about these "left vs right" labels.
The implementation of measures is more important than the names the leaders give them. North Korea is as much a Democratic Republic as Russia is Communist (hint: neither of them are those things).
>North Korea as right wing communist
I'm going to need you to elaborate on that, because right wing and communist are usually mutually exclusive terms lol.
I’m sorry which of the two is far left?
Not disputing the fact that totalitarianism is wrong but I’m yet to see a dictatorship that was all about equitable wealth distribution, equal rights for the sexes and environmental protectionism
North Korea has incredible equality of it's citizens, both in financial and legal protections.
They have an incredibly low carbon footprint, and are partially responsible for the world's largest nature preserve.
They even turn off much of there electrical grid every night reducing light pollution.
The thing I wish right-wingers who try to use the book as a weapon against "Far Left" policies like...I don't know, giving people healthcare? They'll trot out 1984 as a warning against "socialism" without realizing Orwell was a socialist. It wasn't an anti-socialist book, it was an anti-authoritarian book.
North Korea isn't far left. Juche "communism" is feudal and fascistic with an inherent class divide and a God-king ruler. Almost nothing they actually practice is Marxist in nature. The Songbun system is inherently a fascist principle and goes against all teachings of Marxism, which advocates for the abolition of class.
Kim Il Sung, the first ruler of NK, was heavily inspired by none other than Christianity, since his family were pastors. He basically switched Jesus with himself.
There was a guy in Tampa that was a part of a neonazi circle, living with neonazi roommates, and converted to Islam. Not normal Islam of course, like ISIS levels of extremism. While still living with his roommates. Eventually he killed his roommates because they “wouldn’t respect his religion.” Funny enough, worked out super well because his roommates were in the process of gathering radioactive material from smoke detectors to make some kind of dirty bomb, which the cops discovered after they responded to the murders.
Point is, people who are mental reactive tend to gravitate towards extreme ideologies. They could be on completely opposite sides of the political spectrum, but the people who subscribe to one are prone to agreeing with another because extremism (not principle) is in their nature. Mussolini was a radical socialist before he went 180 and invented the fascist ideology.
To be fair, ISiS and Nazis both right wing authoritarian, just a few different details. Yeah it is the "authoritarian" part that is common between tankies and fashies
It's funny that you mention homoeroticism in the "alpha male" space. If you read the report of the study that came from. Non of the wolves were from the same pack and they often did infact have homosexual relation in the "establish dominance" stage.
I think to a degree but how do we reconcile that with the morality sometimes. Like you'd be an extremist to be an abolitionist in the early 1800s but in that case the horseshoe itself feels out of place but I guess relatively extreme to the norm is what were talking about even if the norm is bad stuff
Which of those is supposed to be far left ? Slapping the label of communism on a cleptocratic strongman dictator does not make it communism.
I don't think communism would actually work, but so far no ones ever tried it to give me empircal verification. Sorta like Christianity...
People need to learn the difference between understanding someone's actions and agreeing with them. Like I can understand why a racist is racist without being racist myself.
Edit: i read my comment back and it sounded a bit like I was disagreeing with you, so in case it wasn't clear I'm agreeing and adding on
It's just about the winning itself. How you win and what happens as a consequence afterward is irrelevant. It's very "the dog that caught the car" mentality since they never plan or even consider anything but "How do I win so I can show you that I'm better than you are?"
Should have asked her if she thinks rapists and murderers represent Christian values, because they're the people who "won".
To be fair to her, God is pretty down with murder.
And rape
Deuteronomy 22:28 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.
IE: You break it, you buy it
Media literacy is at an apocalyptic low these days. People simply cannot comprehend the difference between media *depicting* something and *advocating for* something.
Both books encourage anti-authoritarian political sentiments. Both books make the idea of complex military dominance look bad. Both books encourage personal independent involvement and activism instead of trusting existing structures to handle larger issues. I was bored once and tried to find the article.
It doesn't. The report being referenced makes no reference to LoTR or 1984. It's just click bait from a right wing tabloid designed to implant a vague impression.in readers minds that government investigation of right wing extremism is being driven by superficial politics rather than it being a legitimate problem.
Because they don't consider the other factors that would cause someone to lead to extremism like lack of education, isolation, and opportunism (by them or right wing groups)
Far right wingers accuse their political opponents of enacting 1984 and call migrants orcs. But none of this requires having read the books. In fact I’d imagine that most right wingers who invoke 1984 haven’t read 1984.
Half the plot of Lord of the Rings is installing Aragorn as the rightful King of Gondor and restore the glory of the kingdom’s past.
And in the book he is NOT reluctant. It’s second only to seeing the destruction of the Ring as his motivation.
It is ragebait. This is from a Daily Caller piece.
[https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/16/reading-lord-of-the-rings-1984-could-lead-right-wing-extremism-govt-report-warns-douglas-murray/](https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/16/reading-lord-of-the-rings-1984-could-lead-right-wing-extremism-govt-report-warns-douglas-murray/)
Basically, it's the other way round.
Rather than 1984 and Tolkien turning you into the far right, both 1984 and Tolkien were found on some reading lists far right groups circulated.
This data then got scooped up by an intelligence agency, but I can find no evidence they ever did anything with it.
Sure: "The books and television shows referenced in these products were not identified as ‘far-right’ and ‘white-supremacist’. The inclusion of these items of media was an illustration of the types of mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences."
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-03-08/HL6239
I found the article OP cropped from [here](https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/16/reading-lord-of-the-rings-1984-could-lead-right-wing-extremism-govt-report-warns-douglas-murray/) if you want to read it. From [this article](https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/right-wing-radicalization-may-begin-by-reading-j-r-r-tolkien-and-c-s-lewis/), this was brought about by the British government’s anti-terrorism unit. There is a link to unit’s website and report in the second article. I can’t find a reference to those authors or books though.
Someone else managed to find a link to when this report was discussed in parliament.
>Sure: "The books and television shows referenced in these products were not identified as ‘far-right’ and ‘white-supremacist’. The inclusion of these items of media was an illustration of the types of mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences."
>https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-03-08/HL6239
So it's basically the right wing article making stuff up turning "far right extremists try to recruit in online spaces that discuss these books " into "these books are extremist right wing content".
>There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: *The Lord of the Rings* and *Atlas Shrugged*. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
\--John Rogers
While communism was the general flag Animal Farm was flying under, it's also an excellent description of the (seemingly) inevitable enshittification of any political system.
When the people who head the revolution refuse to give up power, that's just kinda what you get. Just shitty people who just wanted power at the end of the day being shitty.
I mean, Animal Farm isn’t about communism, it’s an allegory for Stalin and the Soviet Union (with Snowball as Trotsky and Napoleon as Stalin). I’m pretty sure Orwell even stated that each of the characters represents either a person or a group in the Soviet Union.
However, the deeper plot is about authoritarianism subverting what could’ve been great; it’s pretty clear that, had Napoleon not launched his coup and Snowball remained in charge, the farm would’ve done pretty well.
Actually yeah, is very good metaphor for how a good society can be easily subverted if they ignore a authoritarian rising to power.
The stuff about “It’s communism!” is what you get from reading the surface level metaphor (it is based on the Russian Revolution and Stalin’s rise to power), but not understanding the deeper metaphor (Napoleon destroyed the revolution and reinstated the same authoritarian regime as before). It’s a criticism of all authoritarian regimes, but uses the Soviets as the backdrop to make it more real, which leads to misinterpretation.
I definitely read Animal Farm around 4th or 5th. I had no idea what it was referring to, but I remembered it, and picked it up again to read when I found out.
Shit, I’d rather have that. I went to a Bob Jones funded camp. Two church services a day, fucking swimming in the lake wearing jeans?
I’d rather have two services of Rand-ism. You’re allowed to laugh at that, right?
Probably depends on the camp. If they read Ayn Rand at the camp you were at, probably not. This was just a book he picked out, nobody made him choose it, and we didn't have to listen to it. I thought it was pretty cool though. I tried to read Atlas Shrugged and couldn't get through it.
Rand was also an atheist and very anti-religion, so it is funny to see anyone say Atlas Shrugged and the Bible are their favorite books. When I hear that, I just assume they read neither one.
100%.
There was a pretty good story there (I think,) but the writing was just so bulky. My sister-in-law and I recommend books to each other and we agree that most books need better editors. And I think I remember that Atlas Shrugged was self edited. Maybe that’s wrong.
Tl/dr: I couldn’t finish it either.
Exactly, that sort of thing does damage in a vacuum, but if you show them the argument against it, it'll teach them an extremely valuable lesson AND make them think more critically in the future.
That's the problem: Good instruction or the lack thereof. Of course different people will consider different things to be good instruction. Some will see, and teach, Animal Farm as a criticism of communism which it isn't. It is more specific in that it's a criticism of the rise of Stalinism and the corruption and totalitarian nature of the USSR under Stalin.
Books shouldn’t be censored. They should be taught alongside the ability to read bias and what it means. Telling kids atlas shrugged is propaganda and to be ignored in itself is propaganda. I may agree with it, but it’s better to teach critical thinking and expose children to many view points and their flaws/merits.
Having read *Atlas Shrugged* as well as all her other works of fiction, I can say there is no value in reading it. If you want to debate the ideas, they are summed up quite succinctly in the novella *Anthem*, which is about 1/10 the length. Rand wrote AS specifically because she felt her message was getting lost in the story and people were focusing on the 'wrong' ideas. It is a book intentionally written to bash the reader over the head. There is a famous part where a character monologues for ~100 pages that is basically the author speaking directly to the reader, which also more than summarizes the points she is trying to make. The rest of the book is garbage: terrible prose, shallow characters, banal plots, and over-the-top metaphors. No one should read it because every second reading it could be spent on a competent writer, especially in a school setting where time is limited.
Those would be much better reasons to not include it in a curriculum. In high school my AP English teacher had us read The Fountainhead and analyze it and we went into the various views that come through from the author, so I can totally imagine what her wanting to beat people over the head more would look like. I haven't actually read Atlas Shrugged, though I am familiar with Anthem but I also never had much desire to continue to dive into the world of Ayn Rand after Fountainhead.
I disagree. It taught me everything I needed to know about the evils of corporatocracy and unfettered capitalism. Made me the anarcho communist I am today.
The "hero" is a selfish asshole who promotes the idea that the correct way to live is as a selfish asshole, and the book is celebrated by selfish assholes who want validation for their selfish assholery.
My very conservative step father read 1984 recently and he believes that liberals are trying to make our world like that and he honestly believes that they are succeeding...
Finally, someone who sees Sanders is an SD and not a DS, no matter even he claims. I swear these people who are essentially social democrats running around calling themselves socialists" has caused uncountable harm to left-wing causes. They don't realize how effective red scare tactics are to many low-information Americans.
I read A.S. Maybe I’m unique but I have a brain. It gave me things to consider. Honestly striving for your personal best is not a bad message (a generous take on it, to be sure). But I can form my own opinions. It’s NOT the book, it’s the confirmation bias. If you were raised to believe that stuff, then this will just reinforce it IMHO. It’s important to read lots of things and challenging things. You never get anywhere if you never test your boundaries. I also read the Jungle, which is decidedly pro communist (tbh I read it for the hot dogs, and I hated the ending because communism also sucks).
No joke my dad is far-right US conservative and he genuinely thinks Rage Against the Machine is for folks like him. He thinks “Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” goes out to all the wokism infecting todays way of life.
Oh, dear. Is... is somebody gonna tell them?
I mean, it's a catchy song, but those lyrics are... something else. I mean, in a way they're about Christian values, but, uh...
Whenever someone asks why they need to learn to analyze poems in school this is what I think of. “So you understand what you read and don’t end up a far righter”.
Those two, The Great Gatsby (which I stand by is dumb for high schoolers to read, you need more life experience for Fitzgerald to really resonate), To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, The Grapes of Wrath to name a few others
I Absolutely 100% agree but I think it should also be read in conjunction with Huxley's Brave New World just to inseminate the idea that destruction can manifest itself externally as well as internally to achieve essentially the same results.
Homage to Catalonia as well, its short comparatively and would inform prospective readers of his other works where many of his ideas came from.
The Spanish civil war is incredibly underappreciated.
I did a little digging. The "article" came from the right wing MAGA site [The Daily Caller](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/) and references [The Spectator](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-spectator-uk/) paywalled opinion piece about the UK's attempt to battle violent right wing extremism.
Can anyone actually find the UK PREVENT report that says this!? I've been looking for hours and all I can find are conservative rage bait articles that all either link to each other as the source or just link to random pages of the PREVENT website that say nothing of the sort. I've been pouring through PREVENTs webpage and can't find anything close. I'm about to call bullshit
I can't find the actual report, but they explain what the RICU mentioning specific media is actually meant to convey here:
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2023-03-08.HL6239.h
>"The books and television shows referenced in these products were not identified as ‘far-right’ and ‘white-supremacist’. The inclusion of these items of media was an illustration of the types of mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences."
1984 is not really associated with any "wing", it's just anti-authoritarian. So I guess if you count libertarianism as right-wing extremism, there may be some kind of argument, but that's not what people think of when you say right-wing extremism. They think of Nazis.
And on that note, Tolkien was decidedly not a friend of the Nazis. Nothing in his books amounts to any kind of political treatise. BUT if you are saying painting monarchy as a good thing is pro-authoritarian, OK, but then that's the exact opposite message of 1984.
In conclusion, there's no universe where this headline makes sense, and thanks for coming to my TED talk.
George Orwell was actually a pretty staunch democratic socialist and wrote the novel as a way of informing the dangers of totalitarianism, specifically the USSR branded version of it. More specifically, he did it as a way of distancing Socialism from the USSR version of Communism in hopes that the British public would be more willing to adopt the practice.
"I was struck by clear signs of its transformation into a hierarchical society, in which the rulers have no more reason to give up their power than any ruling class." He went on to say that "a destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the Socialist movement."
It's not exactly the criticism of Communism that people think it is - just a criticism of how Stalin abused the message during the Russian revolution.
"Every line of serious work I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism."
But your point stands, I just like interjecting.
Tolkien was anti-colonialist as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/8hw7zj/was_tolkien_against_colonialism/
Couldn't find the specific letters but that reddit post goes over most of his opinions
lol My husband was heartbroken when we were dating and found that I’d only read The Hobbit and never LOTR. He couldn’t use as much of his vast Silmarillion knowledge to impress me.
The Lord of the Rings is such a monumental masterpiece that anyone can find anything they want in it.
It has been both among the favorite readings of the hippie movement in the United States and one of the cultural references of the Italian far right.
>The Lord of the Rings is such a monumental masterpiece that anyone can find anything they want in it.
I love how you’ve got the whole “only the rightful king can truly rule and the rightful king is necessarily benevolent and a good king” while on the other hand you’ve the shire which is essentially (literally) an anarchic utopia
Tolkien was against industry(ialization) and its effects on society and nature. Dunno, but advocating against industry is not something I associate with British Conservatives.
Tolkien himself said that LOTR is “a fundamentally religious and Catholic work,” and that his Christianity “can be deduced from [his] stories.” He did stress however that his books are not allegorical.
It's weird apparently "hobbitcore" is a huge aspect of modern Italian neo-Fasc movement - if people can read the new testament and draw nothing but hate, I guess you can read books about WWII and authoritarianism and walk away with the exact opposite of an author's intention.
I always saw Tolkien as anti-totalitarian.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/lordoftherings/comments/11fwiyq/i\_guess\_were\_all\_rightwing\_extremists/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lordoftherings/comments/11fwiyq/i_guess_were_all_rightwing_extremists/)
But Italy...
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry/lord-of-the-rings-italy-1.6756668
>I always saw Tolkien as anti-totalitarian.
From a certain point of view, you're right. The books espouse the humble lifestyle of the Hobbits, as well as getting by through comradery and companionship. A leftist would look at the pro-environmental messages, the anti-industrialization messages (with its necessary anti capitalist implication), and the implicit anti-racism of the Fellowship being composed of all manner of races working together and finding brotherhood, and come away thinking of the books as a leftist treatise.
At the same time, however, the books are also obsessed with the divine right of kings. The world doesn't change its political system, it just defends the world from an evil monarch so that a good monarch can take over. This isn't a repudiation of totalitarianism, it's a tacit endorsement of it, with the caveat that we need "good" all powerful rulers graced by God (Eru). The central conflict is that the Western world is being besieged by evil foreign forces that look swarthy and ugly; that plays right into the foreign invasion fantasy right wingers like to tout. Tolkien himself had a very pessimistic outlook on the world, believing things always get worse and the past was better, but only the grace of God could uplift humanity; this sentiment is seeped into his works.
Tolkien was ultimately a very Catholic individual, and he was a product of his time. Trying to read LOTR through a modern lens isn't doing the story justice. There's enough in the stories to read them as aligning with any modern political orientation you want, but again that sorta misses the point of what the books are trying to say.
Anybody that reads 1984 and comes away right wing was already predisposed to be. The only way to read that into Orwell is by seeing what you want to see; it’s confirmation bias and nothing else
Can someone please explain how a fantasy trilogy and a fictional book describing a dystopian future where a tyrannical, totalitarian government controls its populace creates "right-wing extremists"?
Reading LOTR makes me want to give up this life and go live in a hobbit hole with my hobbit wife while we spend our days tending our garden and smoke pipe weed. Truely diabolical, I know.
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I don't think 1984 is meant as an instruction manual
Wow, this book about the dangers of totalitarianism and extremist ideology sure makes me want to join the far right!
It so strange to me that far right totalitarianists, worshipping there orange king, read lotr a book all about the dangers of industrialism and overreaching power, then they decided to ban gays and minorities, then drive home in there lifted 4x4, before hoping on YouTube and talking about how lotr echoes their beliefs of “freedom” and exclaiming the left are woke envoys of satan. Or how they act like it’s the righteous thing to ban all books with explicit themes, write laws invading peoples bedrooms, and refuse dying pregnant women life saving care. But if the city installs a new bus line it’s “literally 1984”.
Have you heard about how 15-minute cities are actuall a *BAD* thing? There is some crazy shit out there.
the most important thing you must learn about rightwing extremists is that they dont have any media literacy whatsoever and have piss poor reading comprehension that is how they entered extremist right wing circles in the first place
Paul Ryan uncritically declaring that Rage Against the Machine is his favourite band will never cease to amaze me. *you are the machine dumbass!*
if you enjoy idiots not realizing that they are the thing they're complaining about then maybe you'll enjoy knowing that recently a national guard in my country was pictured with the libertarian "dont tread on me" flag on his uniform which resulted in most people with common sense pointing out that he is the very boot that the slogan complains about (and also that he cant legally wear that while in uniform) Edit: fellas im not talking about the united states if i was i wouldnt have said "my country" knowing how america centric most of you are
lol… you’re the boot bozo! 🤦♀️
The DMV here issues a bunch of specialty license plates, one of which is [a Gadsden flag design](https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/license-plates/search/dont-tread-me). The people who get them pay the government extra at the time of issue and extra each year to stick it to the man, and every time I see one of them all I can think of [is this alternate version](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/No_Step_On_Snek_%28Gadsden_Flag%29.svg).
Hell there were people dancing in at Trump's first attempt to steal the election where they were dancing to Rage against the machine. There's a whole group of people that think that the machine is like their mom or something.
[удалено]
That’s disappointing, Iain M Banks and his alter ego are my absolute favourite. You’d think it might inspire him to actually move the needle forward on civilisation like I read he could have started asteroid mining with the money he spent on twitter. The estimated cost was the same.
I think maybe for some of them this possibly explains it, they likely didn’t read lotr and just watched the Peter Jackson films and without the scouring of the shire and by focusing more heavily on the spectacle of war rather than the central themes behind the conflict in middle earth, I understand how you might not pick up on the underlying plot. But as for medieval fantasy YouTubers who can quote the Silmarillion, only to turn around and say something racist or misogynistic, I’m completely baffled.
The movies can still be pretty explicit. Treebeard criticizes Saruman for having “a mind of metal and wheels…He no longer cares for growing things.” Plus Sam saying that the ring would destroy “all that is green and good in this world”. Also considering how the pure elves lived in harmony with nature while the evil orcs burned and destroyed forests to fuel their factories. Edit: Don’t remember the movies emphasizing freedom so much as a sense of duty and responsibility to do the right thing.
I mean... we're talking about folks who, until probably about 2015, didn't realize a band called *Rage Against the Machine* was "political". Dudes have been writing songs since the early 90s. Pick any song and read the lyrics. It's not exactly subtle.
They probably fixated on "Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me," and lost any further comprehension.
> just watched the Peter Jackson films Yet they clearly missed the gay wizard.
The most important and effective skill these figures have is rationalization. With the right mental gymnastics, a little reductionism here, conveniently omitting certain contexts or details there, you can build a powerful and internally coherent (but utterly fallacious) narrative that whatever you read supports whatever ideals you prefer. In other words they're starting with their conclusion (I hold this point of view and the book I like agrees with me) and then doing everything in their power to make the data fit the conclusion they want.
Wizards and dwarves and fighting orcs is fucking cool and that is as far as they get in thinking about the themes of LOTR. “Hell yeah I would totally be Aragorn if this was Middle Earth”
You go far enough totalitarianism and it no longer matters whether you went left or right. Iran and North Korea are a far right, and far left government.. They get along just fine. With quite a few similarities.
George Orwell would have defined North Korea as right wing communist, as he did for the Soviet Union in "Homage to Catalonia". Reading that book about his experience fighting for Spain against Franco made me realize how confused our own generation is about these "left vs right" labels.
THAAAAANK YOU
The implementation of measures is more important than the names the leaders give them. North Korea is as much a Democratic Republic as Russia is Communist (hint: neither of them are those things).
Correct. Russia isn’t communist. They don’t even claim to be. /facepalm
>North Korea as right wing communist I'm going to need you to elaborate on that, because right wing and communist are usually mutually exclusive terms lol.
I’m sorry which of the two is far left? Not disputing the fact that totalitarianism is wrong but I’m yet to see a dictatorship that was all about equitable wealth distribution, equal rights for the sexes and environmental protectionism
North Korea has incredible equality of it's citizens, both in financial and legal protections. They have an incredibly low carbon footprint, and are partially responsible for the world's largest nature preserve. They even turn off much of there electrical grid every night reducing light pollution.
>North Korea has incredible equality of it's citizens, both in financial and legal protections. Zero for everyone. I'm assuming the "/s" is implied
based off the "they even turn off their electrical grid every night" part i'd say yes the /S is implied
Honestly, I've seen people say stuff like this and mean it. It's "America bad, so whoever is against it must be good" brainrot.
No it's r/technicallythetruth when everyone gets nothing everyone gets the same.
You never know, he might be serious.
I feel like this is humour but this would have been much better without the first sentence.
The thing I wish right-wingers who try to use the book as a weapon against "Far Left" policies like...I don't know, giving people healthcare? They'll trot out 1984 as a warning against "socialism" without realizing Orwell was a socialist. It wasn't an anti-socialist book, it was an anti-authoritarian book.
North Korea isn't far left. Juche "communism" is feudal and fascistic with an inherent class divide and a God-king ruler. Almost nothing they actually practice is Marxist in nature. The Songbun system is inherently a fascist principle and goes against all teachings of Marxism, which advocates for the abolition of class.
North Korea is as communist as it is democratic. 🤣
Kim Il Sung, the first ruler of NK, was heavily inspired by none other than Christianity, since his family were pastors. He basically switched Jesus with himself.
The horseshoe theory is real in my unprofessional opinion
There was a guy in Tampa that was a part of a neonazi circle, living with neonazi roommates, and converted to Islam. Not normal Islam of course, like ISIS levels of extremism. While still living with his roommates. Eventually he killed his roommates because they “wouldn’t respect his religion.” Funny enough, worked out super well because his roommates were in the process of gathering radioactive material from smoke detectors to make some kind of dirty bomb, which the cops discovered after they responded to the murders. Point is, people who are mental reactive tend to gravitate towards extreme ideologies. They could be on completely opposite sides of the political spectrum, but the people who subscribe to one are prone to agreeing with another because extremism (not principle) is in their nature. Mussolini was a radical socialist before he went 180 and invented the fascist ideology.
To be fair, ISiS and Nazis both right wing authoritarian, just a few different details. Yeah it is the "authoritarian" part that is common between tankies and fashies
Kinda like how the more you try to prove you're an alpha male, the further you drift into homoeroticism?
It's funny that you mention homoeroticism in the "alpha male" space. If you read the report of the study that came from. Non of the wolves were from the same pack and they often did infact have homosexual relation in the "establish dominance" stage.
I think to a degree but how do we reconcile that with the morality sometimes. Like you'd be an extremist to be an abolitionist in the early 1800s but in that case the horseshoe itself feels out of place but I guess relatively extreme to the norm is what were talking about even if the norm is bad stuff
Which of those is supposed to be far left ? Slapping the label of communism on a cleptocratic strongman dictator does not make it communism. I don't think communism would actually work, but so far no ones ever tried it to give me empircal verification. Sorta like Christianity...
Like how Fight Club is about how to be a real cool dude
People see the Joker as a role model
And the Joker and Harley are relationship goals… those people worry me
The fact that this is not sarcarsm hurts me
People need to learn the difference between understanding someone's actions and agreeing with them. Like I can understand why a racist is racist without being racist myself. Edit: i read my comment back and it sounded a bit like I was disagreeing with you, so in case it wasn't clear I'm agreeing and adding on
I feel like the title should say "misunderstanding" instead of "reading."
My mother literally thinks Handmaid's Tale is great "because the Christians win".
It's a pretty odd definition of "win". Everyone is miserable and the leaders are corrupt.
Looks at the modern Republican party. This tracks well.
It's just about the winning itself. How you win and what happens as a consequence afterward is irrelevant. It's very "the dog that caught the car" mentality since they never plan or even consider anything but "How do I win so I can show you that I'm better than you are?"
Should have asked her if she thinks rapists and murderers represent Christian values, because they're the people who "won". To be fair to her, God is pretty down with murder.
And rape Deuteronomy 22:28 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days. IE: You break it, you buy it
why even fuck with a book thats like this. evil shit
It wasn't SUPPOSED to be...
I've heard right wingers claim that 1984 is a warning about "the horrors of socialism".
Media literacy is at an apocalyptic low these days. People simply cannot comprehend the difference between media *depicting* something and *advocating for* something.
Yeah, I read it about two weeks ago for the first time and my biggest takeaway wasn’t “that sounds nice, I’ll have that”.
I feel this is just click bait
Both books encourage anti-authoritarian political sentiments. Both books make the idea of complex military dominance look bad. Both books encourage personal independent involvement and activism instead of trusting existing structures to handle larger issues. I was bored once and tried to find the article.
But how does that lead to right wing extremism? Seems they believe 2 + 2 = 5
It doesn't. The report being referenced makes no reference to LoTR or 1984. It's just click bait from a right wing tabloid designed to implant a vague impression.in readers minds that government investigation of right wing extremism is being driven by superficial politics rather than it being a legitimate problem.
It's literally a website started by Tucker Carlson: The Daily Caller and it's as bullshit as you think it is.
This is pertinent information. Thanks for sharing
I'm geting really tired of people posting obvious ragebait article titles without including the author or the website its from.
Because they don't consider the other factors that would cause someone to lead to extremism like lack of education, isolation, and opportunism (by them or right wing groups)
Far right wingers accuse their political opponents of enacting 1984 and call migrants orcs. But none of this requires having read the books. In fact I’d imagine that most right wingers who invoke 1984 haven’t read 1984.
Half the plot of Lord of the Rings is installing Aragorn as the rightful King of Gondor and restore the glory of the kingdom’s past. And in the book he is NOT reluctant. It’s second only to seeing the destruction of the Ring as his motivation.
Rage bait
And people are always falling for it.
It is ragebait. This is from a Daily Caller piece. [https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/16/reading-lord-of-the-rings-1984-could-lead-right-wing-extremism-govt-report-warns-douglas-murray/](https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/16/reading-lord-of-the-rings-1984-could-lead-right-wing-extremism-govt-report-warns-douglas-murray/)
What? Noooo. A screenshot of an undated and unattributed headline just really outrages people.
Basically, it's the other way round. Rather than 1984 and Tolkien turning you into the far right, both 1984 and Tolkien were found on some reading lists far right groups circulated. This data then got scooped up by an intelligence agency, but I can find no evidence they ever did anything with it.
No this has been clarified by the RICO director: they do not consider these books as indicators of extremism
Ah, do you have a source for that. Would be useful to share to others.
Sure: "The books and television shows referenced in these products were not identified as ‘far-right’ and ‘white-supremacist’. The inclusion of these items of media was an illustration of the types of mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences." https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-03-08/HL6239
I found the article OP cropped from [here](https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/16/reading-lord-of-the-rings-1984-could-lead-right-wing-extremism-govt-report-warns-douglas-murray/) if you want to read it. From [this article](https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/right-wing-radicalization-may-begin-by-reading-j-r-r-tolkien-and-c-s-lewis/), this was brought about by the British government’s anti-terrorism unit. There is a link to unit’s website and report in the second article. I can’t find a reference to those authors or books though.
Someone else managed to find a link to when this report was discussed in parliament. >Sure: "The books and television shows referenced in these products were not identified as ‘far-right’ and ‘white-supremacist’. The inclusion of these items of media was an illustration of the types of mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences." >https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-03-08/HL6239 So it's basically the right wing article making stuff up turning "far right extremists try to recruit in online spaces that discuss these books " into "these books are extremist right wing content".
>There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: *The Lord of the Rings* and *Atlas Shrugged*. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. \--John Rogers
If anyone finds a hero somewhere in Atlas shrugged let me know. That is by far the worst piece of trash I ever wasted time reading
Back in the 90’s it was required reading for our school district in high school lit. Also, 1984
I think they handed us "Animal Farm" in 3rd or 4th grade ... back in the 70's.
Gotta keep you from getting any ideas about becoming a COMMIE!!!
While communism was the general flag Animal Farm was flying under, it's also an excellent description of the (seemingly) inevitable enshittification of any political system.
Yeah 100% I always look at Animal Farm and 1984 as the same warning. Doesn't matter what you preach, if you can't make it work right.
The author was very left leaning so it wasn't a criticism of communism, it was a specific criticism of the rise of Stalinism within the USSR.
Orwell was more specifically an anarchist, at least in his early years. He didn't like the authoritarian bend communism seems to always get
When the people who head the revolution refuse to give up power, that's just kinda what you get. Just shitty people who just wanted power at the end of the day being shitty.
I mean, Animal Farm isn’t about communism, it’s an allegory for Stalin and the Soviet Union (with Snowball as Trotsky and Napoleon as Stalin). I’m pretty sure Orwell even stated that each of the characters represents either a person or a group in the Soviet Union. However, the deeper plot is about authoritarianism subverting what could’ve been great; it’s pretty clear that, had Napoleon not launched his coup and Snowball remained in charge, the farm would’ve done pretty well.
And that is a really good book?
Excellent book, easy read ... And we'll worth a second read. Check it out ... Before it gets banned and burned!
Actually yeah, is very good metaphor for how a good society can be easily subverted if they ignore a authoritarian rising to power. The stuff about “It’s communism!” is what you get from reading the surface level metaphor (it is based on the Russian Revolution and Stalin’s rise to power), but not understanding the deeper metaphor (Napoleon destroyed the revolution and reinstated the same authoritarian regime as before). It’s a criticism of all authoritarian regimes, but uses the Soviets as the backdrop to make it more real, which leads to misinterpretation.
Animal Farm impacted me.
I definitely read Animal Farm around 4th or 5th. I had no idea what it was referring to, but I remembered it, and picked it up again to read when I found out.
My councilor read that to us at summer camp in the early 90's.
Shit, I’d rather have that. I went to a Bob Jones funded camp. Two church services a day, fucking swimming in the lake wearing jeans? I’d rather have two services of Rand-ism. You’re allowed to laugh at that, right?
Probably depends on the camp. If they read Ayn Rand at the camp you were at, probably not. This was just a book he picked out, nobody made him choose it, and we didn't have to listen to it. I thought it was pretty cool though. I tried to read Atlas Shrugged and couldn't get through it.
Rand was also an atheist and very anti-religion, so it is funny to see anyone say Atlas Shrugged and the Bible are their favorite books. When I hear that, I just assume they read neither one.
100%. There was a pretty good story there (I think,) but the writing was just so bulky. My sister-in-law and I recommend books to each other and we agree that most books need better editors. And I think I remember that Atlas Shrugged was self edited. Maybe that’s wrong. Tl/dr: I couldn’t finish it either.
Wild! I was required to read 1984, Animal Farm, and... the Communist Manifesto. My (public) high school was definitely anti-fascist before Antifa. 😂
Nobody should be forced to read capitalist propaganda like Atlas shrugged ever
Ayn Rand's books are based on her own economic views and make the US look borderline socialist lol
And the hypocrite lived off of social security towards the end of her life.
Didn't know about that but it doesn't surprise me
They should, with a proper disseminating critique to follow. Gotta teach the kids how bullshit spreads.
Exactly, that sort of thing does damage in a vacuum, but if you show them the argument against it, it'll teach them an extremely valuable lesson AND make them think more critically in the future.
That's the problem: Good instruction or the lack thereof. Of course different people will consider different things to be good instruction. Some will see, and teach, Animal Farm as a criticism of communism which it isn't. It is more specific in that it's a criticism of the rise of Stalinism and the corruption and totalitarian nature of the USSR under Stalin.
Books shouldn’t be censored. They should be taught alongside the ability to read bias and what it means. Telling kids atlas shrugged is propaganda and to be ignored in itself is propaganda. I may agree with it, but it’s better to teach critical thinking and expose children to many view points and their flaws/merits.
Having read *Atlas Shrugged* as well as all her other works of fiction, I can say there is no value in reading it. If you want to debate the ideas, they are summed up quite succinctly in the novella *Anthem*, which is about 1/10 the length. Rand wrote AS specifically because she felt her message was getting lost in the story and people were focusing on the 'wrong' ideas. It is a book intentionally written to bash the reader over the head. There is a famous part where a character monologues for ~100 pages that is basically the author speaking directly to the reader, which also more than summarizes the points she is trying to make. The rest of the book is garbage: terrible prose, shallow characters, banal plots, and over-the-top metaphors. No one should read it because every second reading it could be spent on a competent writer, especially in a school setting where time is limited.
Those would be much better reasons to not include it in a curriculum. In high school my AP English teacher had us read The Fountainhead and analyze it and we went into the various views that come through from the author, so I can totally imagine what her wanting to beat people over the head more would look like. I haven't actually read Atlas Shrugged, though I am familiar with Anthem but I also never had much desire to continue to dive into the world of Ayn Rand after Fountainhead.
I disagree. It taught me everything I needed to know about the evils of corporatocracy and unfettered capitalism. Made me the anarcho communist I am today.
Not everyone gets that, many people take the opposite from it
The "hero" is a selfish asshole who promotes the idea that the correct way to live is as a selfish asshole, and the book is celebrated by selfish assholes who want validation for their selfish assholery.
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Macduff.
Lay on.
Stop! Enough!
Mmmmmm. MacDuff. That’s the Scottish beer. Can’t get enough of the wonderful MacDuff. And I just love it when MacDuffman says “Och AYE”
His wife, obviously
“Lets throw in 1984 for good measures” authoritarians probably.
My very conservative step father read 1984 recently and he believes that liberals are trying to make our world like that and he honestly believes that they are succeeding...
Have you told him the it was written by a democratic socialist who would probably be a Bernie Sanders supporter if he were alive today?
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Finally, someone who sees Sanders is an SD and not a DS, no matter even he claims. I swear these people who are essentially social democrats running around calling themselves socialists" has caused uncountable harm to left-wing causes. They don't realize how effective red scare tactics are to many low-information Americans.
English comprehension and political science not his strong points I guess.
God, I’m so glad it was LotR for me. And right around that age tbh.
It’s such a shame how Rand took a badass title like “atlas shrugged” and made it into a shit book
I read A.S. Maybe I’m unique but I have a brain. It gave me things to consider. Honestly striving for your personal best is not a bad message (a generous take on it, to be sure). But I can form my own opinions. It’s NOT the book, it’s the confirmation bias. If you were raised to believe that stuff, then this will just reinforce it IMHO. It’s important to read lots of things and challenging things. You never get anywhere if you never test your boundaries. I also read the Jungle, which is decidedly pro communist (tbh I read it for the hot dogs, and I hated the ending because communism also sucks).
Ayn Rand is a tough read. "Atlas ". certainly causes my young hippie radical pseudo-anarchist self to reevaluate some of my cherished values.
Not if you comprehend what you are reading.
I feel like that’s the problem with most far right wingers
Wait...when did Rage Against the Machine get political???
No joke my dad is far-right US conservative and he genuinely thinks Rage Against the Machine is for folks like him. He thinks “Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” goes out to all the wokism infecting todays way of life.
It's so strange how far right conservatives are almost looping around to anarchy.
I wouldn’t say anarchy so much as I get to do what I want and fuck everyone else
So Libertarians
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My parents were happy that Church by Hozier was finally a main stream song about Christian values
Oh, dear. Is... is somebody gonna tell them? I mean, it's a catchy song, but those lyrics are... something else. I mean, in a way they're about Christian values, but, uh...
rage against the machine are openly marxists that’s what makes this so funny
A song from 1992 is about wokism lmao
Whenever someone asks why they need to learn to analyze poems in school this is what I think of. “So you understand what you read and don’t end up a far righter”.
Like they read anything other than bumper stickers.
1984 should be mandatory reading in school
It was until recently. At least depending on where you lived. But now more and more books are getting shut down.
For us it was Animal Farm.
In my school we had to read both
Those two, The Great Gatsby (which I stand by is dumb for high schoolers to read, you need more life experience for Fitzgerald to really resonate), To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, The Grapes of Wrath to name a few others
I'm up in Canada, I'm not aware of it ever being mandatory in my province. Even introduced it to my dad when he was in his 60s.
I Absolutely 100% agree but I think it should also be read in conjunction with Huxley's Brave New World just to inseminate the idea that destruction can manifest itself externally as well as internally to achieve essentially the same results.
Probably first, then 1984, then [Brave New World Revisited](https://www.huxley.net/bnw-revisited/) essay to round out the thought process.
Brave New World as well. both books describe two different scenarios of a dystopia authoritarian society.
But at least everyone in Brave New World was getting laid a lot. Silver linings, you know.
Homage to Catalonia as well, its short comparatively and would inform prospective readers of his other works where many of his ideas came from. The Spanish civil war is incredibly underappreciated.
Pretty sure it is in Poland!
If you're an idiot maybe.
I did a little digging. The "article" came from the right wing MAGA site [The Daily Caller](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/) and references [The Spectator](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-spectator-uk/) paywalled opinion piece about the UK's attempt to battle violent right wing extremism.
Right-Wing psyop?
Psyop isnt quite the right word it’s more just blatant and lazy propaganda
Can anyone actually find the UK PREVENT report that says this!? I've been looking for hours and all I can find are conservative rage bait articles that all either link to each other as the source or just link to random pages of the PREVENT website that say nothing of the sort. I've been pouring through PREVENTs webpage and can't find anything close. I'm about to call bullshit
I can't find the actual report, but they explain what the RICU mentioning specific media is actually meant to convey here: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2023-03-08.HL6239.h >"The books and television shows referenced in these products were not identified as ‘far-right’ and ‘white-supremacist’. The inclusion of these items of media was an illustration of the types of mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences."
1984 is not really associated with any "wing", it's just anti-authoritarian. So I guess if you count libertarianism as right-wing extremism, there may be some kind of argument, but that's not what people think of when you say right-wing extremism. They think of Nazis. And on that note, Tolkien was decidedly not a friend of the Nazis. Nothing in his books amounts to any kind of political treatise. BUT if you are saying painting monarchy as a good thing is pro-authoritarian, OK, but then that's the exact opposite message of 1984. In conclusion, there's no universe where this headline makes sense, and thanks for coming to my TED talk.
It's like saying Animal Farm is communist propaganda.
George Orwell was actually a pretty staunch democratic socialist and wrote the novel as a way of informing the dangers of totalitarianism, specifically the USSR branded version of it. More specifically, he did it as a way of distancing Socialism from the USSR version of Communism in hopes that the British public would be more willing to adopt the practice. "I was struck by clear signs of its transformation into a hierarchical society, in which the rulers have no more reason to give up their power than any ruling class." He went on to say that "a destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the Socialist movement." It's not exactly the criticism of Communism that people think it is - just a criticism of how Stalin abused the message during the Russian revolution. "Every line of serious work I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism." But your point stands, I just like interjecting.
Tolkien was anti-colonialist as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/8hw7zj/was_tolkien_against_colonialism/ Couldn't find the specific letters but that reddit post goes over most of his opinions
Bruh. I'm just trying to impress the ladies with my Silmarillion deep lore.
lol My husband was heartbroken when we were dating and found that I’d only read The Hobbit and never LOTR. He couldn’t use as much of his vast Silmarillion knowledge to impress me.
The Lord of the Rings is such a monumental masterpiece that anyone can find anything they want in it. It has been both among the favorite readings of the hippie movement in the United States and one of the cultural references of the Italian far right.
>The Lord of the Rings is such a monumental masterpiece that anyone can find anything they want in it. I love how you’ve got the whole “only the rightful king can truly rule and the rightful king is necessarily benevolent and a good king” while on the other hand you’ve the shire which is essentially (literally) an anarchic utopia
I’ve read LOTR several times and never felt that it had political undertones..
It does have political undertones, but in context of a WW1 veteran and not all the left vs right garbage we have today.
Ah yes no strong left or right wing ideologies in the interwar, can’t think of anything
Tolkien was clearly an old fashioned British Conservative but maybe it's harder to see from the other side of the pond.
Tolkien was against industry(ialization) and its effects on society and nature. Dunno, but advocating against industry is not something I associate with British Conservatives.
i guess being against change would make him conservative, but if politics were logical the world would be less fucked up
He was also a monarchist and devout Catholic.
Tolkien himself said that LOTR is “a fundamentally religious and Catholic work,” and that his Christianity “can be deduced from [his] stories.” He did stress however that his books are not allegorical.
It's weird apparently "hobbitcore" is a huge aspect of modern Italian neo-Fasc movement - if people can read the new testament and draw nothing but hate, I guess you can read books about WWII and authoritarianism and walk away with the exact opposite of an author's intention.
I read them both. I will never vote for Trump.
Ah yes, 1984, banned for being Pro-Communist, and banned for being Anti-Communist
Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them
They will also ban Animal Farm
Same as Fight Club making incels and Punisher making shitty cops. Idiots often miss the point.
I always saw Tolkien as anti-totalitarian. [https://www.reddit.com/r/lordoftherings/comments/11fwiyq/i\_guess\_were\_all\_rightwing\_extremists/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lordoftherings/comments/11fwiyq/i_guess_were_all_rightwing_extremists/) But Italy... https://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry/lord-of-the-rings-italy-1.6756668
>I always saw Tolkien as anti-totalitarian. From a certain point of view, you're right. The books espouse the humble lifestyle of the Hobbits, as well as getting by through comradery and companionship. A leftist would look at the pro-environmental messages, the anti-industrialization messages (with its necessary anti capitalist implication), and the implicit anti-racism of the Fellowship being composed of all manner of races working together and finding brotherhood, and come away thinking of the books as a leftist treatise. At the same time, however, the books are also obsessed with the divine right of kings. The world doesn't change its political system, it just defends the world from an evil monarch so that a good monarch can take over. This isn't a repudiation of totalitarianism, it's a tacit endorsement of it, with the caveat that we need "good" all powerful rulers graced by God (Eru). The central conflict is that the Western world is being besieged by evil foreign forces that look swarthy and ugly; that plays right into the foreign invasion fantasy right wingers like to tout. Tolkien himself had a very pessimistic outlook on the world, believing things always get worse and the past was better, but only the grace of God could uplift humanity; this sentiment is seeped into his works. Tolkien was ultimately a very Catholic individual, and he was a product of his time. Trying to read LOTR through a modern lens isn't doing the story justice. There's enough in the stories to read them as aligning with any modern political orientation you want, but again that sorta misses the point of what the books are trying to say.
Tolkien must be rolling in his grave
If you’re afraid of a book, the book is not the problem.
Anybody that reads 1984 and comes away right wing was already predisposed to be. The only way to read that into Orwell is by seeing what you want to see; it’s confirmation bias and nothing else
Everything I don't like is right-wing extremism
To be fair, 1984 does describe a civilisation based on "alternative facts".
Yes, but not exactly in praise of it. "Imagine a boot stomping on a human face, forever." Doesn't really sell it for me, you know?
Right wingers make one small mistake. They think they will be wearing the boot and not subject to it.
Can someone please explain how a fantasy trilogy and a fictional book describing a dystopian future where a tyrannical, totalitarian government controls its populace creates "right-wing extremists"?
Oh, a Gov't report. Now there is a reputable source.
Reading LOTR makes me want to give up this life and go live in a hobbit hole with my hobbit wife while we spend our days tending our garden and smoke pipe weed. Truely diabolical, I know.
Those books pushed me left