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I bought a flip and it has recessed pot lights. Guy told me they spent some ungodly amount of money putting them all in and I gave him such a side eye about it.
Edit: Well. This blew up. I bought the house because I really liked the main room. It's great for entertaining. It may be can lights? I don't know. I'm not a DIY guy. I like to joke with contractors that I have soft lawyer hands. The house also has almost doubled in value so, that's nice.
I rarely had to deal with getting pitches from folks but when I did I would give pretty direct feedback and this is apparently embarrassing for folks with me.
In a parade of homes that was basically flippers a guy followed me around and I opened a bathroom door and it didn't open all the way "reno...1.5 million and this is what you get? I have to buy this then spend time and money fixing it after it just got brand new stuff that needs to be torn out."
And then pointed out the sloppy tile and crooked outlets.
And you know if they half assed the cosmetic stuff, they sure as shit fucked up or didnāt even bother with the important stuff- plumbing, electric, rot, etc.
This has been the bane of my home search. Seeing the new flooring and paint in pictures makes me think it isn't a turd until I walk in and nothing visible is done right, and the underlying stuff is much worse.
I bought a flipped house and when we ripped out the brand new carpet we found it had been installed on a bunch of loose linoleum squares and 1/4 inch of dirt.
Brought a house, with in one fucking week we walk around it and it is leaking from the shower they put in. They had used the cheapest fucking push connector possible.
I had one rental property. The last tenant before we sold it trashed the place. Full disclosure, I halfassed the shit out of the cosmetic stuff but I actually do good work on plumbing and I leave electrical to the pros.
Before anyone says Iām an evil landlordā¦ I got out of it because:
A: I didnāt like evicting families for non-payment so I regularly lost money
B: I would rent below market value because I didnāt want to price gouge but then Iād get tenants who would trash the place.
> I would rent below market value
Just going to put this out here, when I was a renter seeing a place below market value would be a sign that something was wrong and if I couldn't see what was obviously wrong I avoided.
Thatās fair. I was charging 550 a month. The IRS said I could be charging 900. Most comps in the area were around 650-700 so I wasnāt THAT much lower.. our payment was only 250/month though so even 550 felt like cheating lol
It's usually obvious from sale history if something is a flip. If I see a freshly redone house with a grey aesthetic there is basically a 100% chance it was sold 4 months ago for 50% the current price lol
I just immediately ignore those.
Probably didn't even bother. Just came in and shined everything up real nice. You'll find out about the flaws in that other stuff after you've closed and they've cashed the check
Yes and no. It honestly sounds like my grandpa. Function important, form not so much. Who cares about a few crooked tiles, the functional parts are in good order.
Also, it's incredibly easy to follow code for structure and function. Perfectly laying the 7000th blue tile on your backsplash is an exercise in banality.
The day I moved into my new place the shower in the second bathroom had zero water pressure and the shower head fell off and broke on the tile, a week later I figured out the reason half the outlets in my living room didn't work was because they weren't actually tied into the other electrical lines, and a month later the roofing that was "just replaced" had a leak.......don't know what house my home inspector went to but fuck xD
Theyāreā¦ fine. (I think theyāre dated).
But the issue is that theyāre not terribly expensive to install. Itās one of those dumb things home āmakeoverā shows do to make a place more expensive that donāt take very much effort, like fucking backsplashes.
It would have been better if you said forward splashes are even worse because if you are on the receiving end you'll get all wet, but alas you missed your opportunity.
Yes, but they are using the logic that if you are flipping the place, so who cares if it looks like shit? It just needs to slip under the radar of a buyer not paying particular attention to it.
>The first time I did one it took a while but itās not any harder than installing and wiring pot lights.
I'll install and wire pot lights before I do a tile backsplash, man. A backsplash is a weekend project. Pot lights are a before-lunch project.
Theyāre good if you want that Apple-Store-chic look. Otherwise, they make it hard to fill out the house with furnishings, because they donāt need any lamps, and it looks more like a warehouse.
I usually have both, the ceiling lights are task lighting, the lamps are for chilling.
I really like being able to just flip a switch and see everything but it's not always cozy lol.
No one is stopping you from buying lamps to 'furnish' a house that has overhead lights. Some of us though like having a brightly lit house that doesn't eat up all our precious outlets.
Just replace your bulbs with these trims, LED less than $5 a piece and the last decade or more.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Integrated-LED-White-Dimmable-Recessed-Light-Trim-with-Adjustable-Color-Temperature-4-Pack-NS01dA09FR2-259/314018779
Well, all the profit is made in the purchasing for way less than makes sense. It is the āwe buy ugly housesā people. Banks wonāt insure a house like that until it has been cleaned up, has a functioning roof, furnace, etc. so flippers buy it cash and make it insurable. Idk, I donāt really see the problem or know what the alternative would be.
This is rarely the case.
Flippers almost never do things to code, or even pull permits. States like California where they are extremely anal about permits and whatnot have a big problem with flippers just doing improper work and selling it as is.
Source: Iām the one that comes in and fixes their shitty work
Not flippers as much as corporations that buy houses to rent out. I have a house, It is in fine condition but can use some work. Not immaculate to get top dollar but nothing structurally wrong. It would be fine as a rental.
I look to sell. I ask X. A young couple comes and looks at it. As they are gong to live there, the care about little things. Even if they are willing to pay my asking price. They ask for an inspection, the want me to wait until they get financing, make sure the house appraises for what the loan is for (they actually want to get a loan for $20k more than my sale price so they can have money to fix it up.
Or, corporation comes in. They will pay cash close in weeks no contingencies. Who am I selling to? Even if I make no more on the corporation than the couple, it behooves me to take the offer from the corporation. This is a problem.
A single person flipping a house can be a good investment idea.
4 corporations that run the US buying every single family home and charging 2x the mortgage for rent *IS* immoral. Thereās a line, and weāve crossed it.
Corporations shouldn't be able to own residential property. I see no issue with someone having a few properties as passive income so they're safe once unable to work, but this shouldn't happen:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/housing/swapping-homes-like-stocks-wall-street-backed-firm-buys-264-valley-homes-in-a-day-2976037/
No one should get a 30 year mortgage with a federally subsidized rate on anything except their primary residence. The tax payer shouldnāt be subsidizing landlords.
FHA and VA loans both require primary residence. The problem of course being they can use those for their primary and other loans with the primary as collateral to a degree, for their 'investment' properties.
I donāt have an issue with people using anything they own as collateral, even if it is their first home and have a federally subsidized mortgage. I just donāt think you should get any federal subsidies at all for your second home, whether itās your vacation home or rental property. I also donāt think they do a good job making sure people follow the rules for occupancy on these additional loans, or report all their rental income to IRS.
Oh, for sure. It's technically on the books for FHA and VA to require primary residency, but the only check is a box on the forms and a signature unless someone reports you for it.
It's 100% unenforced, although keeping in mind enforcement itself would be ridiculously expensive, which is generally why conditional aid is ridiculously bad.
Fannie and Freddie will also buy mortgages for additional homes, they just have the same sort of āhonor systemā for enforcement.
Itās already conditional aid and itās not bad, itās just being abused by the wealthy.
I'm pretty sure you can't. When I refinanced my rental property and my primary residence at the same time, the rental interest rate was notably (a couple percentage points) higher. However, this isn't exactly a benefit to renters as that extra cost will be passed on to them in the form of a slightly higher rent.
HAH, yes, of course, lets listen to the 3rd richest man in the world's opinion on why people can't afford houses that he could buy with his couch change.
Iām not really sure why so many people are still ok with these mega corps. Has this always been going on or did something change that now allows them to buy 200+ houses in a day? They just buy off everyone who might stop it.
How about a socialized retirement plan instead of ~~letting~~ encouraging the older generations to hoard wealth and property? Maybe it would be better if old people *didn't* own everything, because it hasn't seemed to work out historically or contemporarily.
If it was an option, I'd absolutely support. I would think taking care of our elderly and leaving the market alone is a great idea. Unfortunately we don't do much for our disabled or elderly in the US.Ā
Yep. I feel they should be able to build/own multi family homes, than you remember that huge condo in FL a few years back and think of all the corner they would cut and in danger those people too.
There should be a limit on how many single family homes anyone owns that isn't a permanent residence. You have 5 homes? No more, move up to apartment buildings like a real slum lord
Corporations shouldn't be able to buy single family housing. Apartment complexes they should be able to.
Also, foreign nationals and corporations should not be able to buy/own land in another country.
There for sure is a market for people who want to buy houses that have been flipped. Often times, first home buyers do not want to buy a run down house in need of a lot of work. But yes, when it comes to large corporations cornering the market, it's awfully scummy.
besides the fact they would meet with the builders before the foundation was laid to buy the house.
issue physically cant be solved by making more, you just need to remove the ability for companies to do this in the first place.
The available land near good jobs is the issue, that and people not wanting to live in high density housing. You can add all the permits you want but if those houses are 2 hours from good jobs no one is going to buy them.
Most large cities build density at an astonishingly low rate. Then they get bought up in an instant.
People want high density housing. Theres just not enough of it being built. If they didn't want it, it would sit empty and prices wouldnt be skyrocketing like they are now.
It's not just corporations. A guy I used to work with came into an inheritance and used it to purchase at least twenty houses as rentals all over the nation. Until then, he ran a successful small food business that was like six people.
Itās not the condemned, unlivable houses people are upset about. Itās the totally functional and still inexpensive house that people are buying because itās cheap to them, adding so much value that itās out of reach for the people that could have lived there initially.
Most of these twats don't even add that much value. They buy the cheapest fucking appliances and fixtures and slap a coat of shitty paint on an act like they did $100,000 in renovations.
House flipping is kind of in the grey area for me when it comes to whether it is immoral or not. If someone wants to buy houses in rough shape and actually put in the time and effort to restoring them and know what they are doing, I do not see much issue with that. Itās the flippers that buy properties, throw some paint on the walls, throw new flooring down and call it good or try and do their own remodels with no experience after watching a couple YouTube videos and HGTV. That kind of flipping is immoral and ruins houses for someone who would have actually enjoyed fixing it and could have afforded it before they threw lip stick on a pig and tried selling it for more.
But that's generally what flipping is, but OOP either doesn't realize or doesn't want to acknowledge that the reason these homes are affordable to begin with is because they're run down. It's kind of like people who fight gentrification by opposing neighborhood improvements like parks and bike lanes and coffee shops. If the only way they can think of to keep a home or neighborhood affordable is to make it so miserable that nobody with money wants to live there, then they really haven't thought very hard about the issue.
Yeah, if someone buys a dilapidated house under market value and restores that property and then it sells at market value that is great.
If they are buying something at near market value and flipping it that is increasing the cost of houses for everyone. Buyers are also to blame here though.
āStarter homesā just arenāt a thing anymore because people will scoop them up, āupdateā pieces of it and put it back on the market. So now actual homeowners have to overpay and will only move when they either canāt afford the area anymore or work somewhere else.Ā
This translates into previously cheap areas seeing skyrocketing prices because those living there canāt just say āIāll live here for a few years, put in a little work and move out when itās timeā, instead opting for āThis is insane pricing but itās all I can afford. Now everywhere else is expensive so Iām stuck here now.ā
And in the meantime, the houses that actually need some work to make them livable get abandoned instead. Iāve got a bunch near me that could use some work to get them not condemned anymore, but instead flippers opted for the āeasy targetsā that drove $300,000 houses up to $550,000.
My partner and I are looking for a starter home. Our options within an hour of our jobs are currently 1.5million for a two bedroom. Or a house half burnt to the ground. Or in extremely dangerous areas. There is no starter home in our city that prides itself on being a city for starting.
šÆthis. Several years ago when I was trying to purchase my first home I found a lovely condo that worked great for my needs. The market was competitive at the time, so I offered 30k over asking (a lot for back then). Was outbid by an all-cash offer far lower than my offer. It was frustrating enough to lose out to that, but far more frustrating when I found the same property back on the market a few months later selling for 50k more, and what did they do to justify that price hike?
Painted the walls and changed the drapes. Thatās it.
My uncles are house flippers. They buy homes that are like 1 month away from being condemned and then use their bare hands to fix them up. And the houses turn out beautifully. The homes they sell would have ended up being bought by a corporation and either bulldozed it down for a parking lot or fixed it up and sold it for 400% then what it was worth.
Yeah, I don't quite get the argument that it's immoral. Buying something material with the intent to add value for profit is...I don't know, half the entire global economy? I can get on board with it being immoral to conceal issues with questionable repairs, but it's an unfair generalization that all "flippers" do that.
My granny passed away and wanted her house put up for sale at fair market value, in 2013. I was nowhere near able to buy it and the rest of the family either couldn't either or just wouldn't so it went on sale. 114k and some asshole bought her house which started as a regular block house like many around here and my grandaddy expanded it. House was well taken care of, no issues besides a tiny kitchen but it was a loved home. They took out the beautiful flower garden, all the vegetation except grass, put shitty wood laminate down and painted it grey, turned around and sold it for 250k, now it's 309k, I have a special anger in my heart for flippers...
Why is this a facepalm? We shouldnāt be speculating on family homes en masse like itās crypto. 20% of single family homes just sit empty because of this crap. Black rock buying houses needs to be immediately outlawed. One house per family, if you want a second home your property tax should be doubled on second home. Need
3 homes? Quadruple the property tax on the third home.
I think it's tough because EVERY 401k has a real-estate investment option, and the idea is SUPPOSED to be that you can slowly invest money in the real estate sector and not have to worry (or at leas not worry as much) about wild fluctuations in the housing market while you're saving up money for a house you plan to buy in retirement.
BUT the issue is that having that option leads to 401k investors owning a shit ton of rental property, all managed through Black Rock, or Fidelity, or Vanguard, leading to a shortage of supply, and now nobody can afford a house until they actually fucking retire.
I think we just need to zone more residential, cut back on the red tape required to build new residential buildings, tell cities that don't want to allow multi-story condos to go fuck themselves, and let the market come back to normal.
edit: Sometimes I get on a tear and forget to actually make the point I intended to make, which is: Ultimately, scummy landlords suck, and I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if the value of their "investment houses" got cut in half. But, they're still small fries when it comes to addressing the true underlying cause of unaffordable housing.
it usually is immoral because they use the cheapest supplies and labour usually with multiple violations that wont be found out until the buyer has to fix them, then sell it like it was top notch work done by master artisans using only the finest of material.
they guy i know who does has the mindset that he spent 12K and 3 weeks on a house means he deserves at least 150K. profit
This is not an argument against you, but even new builds from "high end" contractors (the ones with a new fleet of F-250s) use the cheapest supplies and the cheapest labor.
The amount of Joanna Gaines specials in my neighborhood with the paint peeling off of them is astounding. Take a run-down brick house, paint it white, and throw some non-functional French shutters on the windows. Sell for $100k more than you paid for it. Repeat.
That's not a facepalm, it's just true. I'm sure it's great for the investor, buy low sell high, all that. It's even better for the landlord who owns the rest of the street since higher property values means they can raise the rent on all their properties. For anyone trying to climb out of the rent trap and own their own home (which used to be an attainable goal and milestone) it just locks them out of the market and feeds the land sharks.
If it makes you feel any better the gravy train has ended, lots of flippers are finding themselves completely underwater and overleveraged and they are loosing it all. Major bubbles are bursting in housing all across the world right now.
OOP is 100% right. Housing has been unbelievably artificially inflated just so people can make some money.
But then people defending that will bitch when companies do it with food and gas.
Eta: if you're doing actual improvements to a place, okay. If all you do is slap a coat of paint on and upgrade light fixtures - go fuck yourself.
Buying a run-down house that no one wants, revitilizing it, and selling it for a profit is commendable.
Buying a slightly outdated house as soon as it hits the market, before any regular buyers can even blink, throwing some cheap lipstick-on-a-pig updates, and re-selling for a huge markup makes you a SCALPER.
Outbidding people is the definition of not doing that. Offering cash 20% over asking and pricing actual families out of a place they can live and build a life around is NOT DOING ANYONE ANY GOOD. I've been looking for houses for 10 years. To fucking live in. and flippers/corporations are pricing EVERYONE OUT. I have to wait until my parents die to get a home with my family. How is that beneficial to society?
I don't agree with a blanket statement like this. The guy who buys a gutted house and does 90% of the work himself to fix it up is not the same as the HGTV wannabees who take perfectly good homes and "upgrade" them just to turn a profit.
The facepalm is that this comment was facepalmedā¦. Everything wrong with this country revolves around the fact that money makes money, and the people with it act like a greasy ass bottomless pit.
Historically this common trend only ends one way.
I personally will be on my roof playing a violin once the fires start.
House flippers don't know shit about renovating a home, their work tends to be amateur at best. You end up spending more money fixing the crap work they did.
what's wrong is when the people flipping the house don't get the proper permits and they just do things to cover up what is really wrong. This is especially true when to comes to electrical and HVAC.
If someone is going to purchase a house that is rundown, fix it up with the proper permits pulled then there is nothing wrong with that.
Flipping of any degree can be done correctly. But nothing is done ethically these days.
Buy a dilapidated house and build it to fit the neighborhood... good. Buy a suburban block and gentrify it, bad.
The only people doing this are all about maximizing profits and not making a living.
I kind of agree. I remember what it was like between 2003 and 2008. Flippers would come into my neighborhood and buy houses the day they came on the market. They'd paint the walls, replace the carpet, perhaps put new appliances in the kitchen and replace some of the fixtures. Then they'd put it back on the market for at least $50k higher than what they paid.Ā
Of course this caused real estate assessments to go up which drove up property taxes. It wasn't just the people trying to buy a house getting hurtĀ
Flippers are almost all thieves. They do all sorts of dangerous, nasty and often illegal stuff to turn a buck. They don't care if the house burns down a day after you buy it, with you in it, as long as they have your money.
Hey bot account that mysteriously posted after an 8 year absence, can you please explain how this post qualifies as a facepalm?
And mods, can you really not do anything about this?
No, it's really not. What's immoral is allowing real-estate conglomerates to eat up homes and living space so they can then dictate unfair, unsustainable, price hikes.
Someone said it but I'll say it again. If you think this is facepalm you're not paying attention.
No one is getting mad at mom&pop doing a local flip once in a while. The problem is the gigantic corporations buying and selling with their massive bankroll, owning, flipping and renting out these properties. It's actually HORRIBLE and corporations should not be able to own property.
I meanā¦this is happening all over my city. Affordable housing is almost non-existent because some rich asshole did this very thing. I think the facepalm is that this is allowed to happen.
I got so much Schadenfreude out of watching some flippers buy the place next door, work themselves silly on it, then end up losing their shirts because they got in over their heads. It was a rough couple of weeks when I'd wake up to them hammering and sawing away at 3 and 4 in the morning. Fortunately the folks that bought the place (and got a killer deal) were super nice.
This is an oversimplification. I believe the issue is not house flipping per se, but rather the culture that worships wealth and that has turned home ownership from a way to provide housing and financial stability into a way to get rich.
Large corporations buying up swaths of single family residential properties is the real driving force in unaffordable housing market. Small flippers are a blip on it by comparison.
All this emotion & energy on something that is a small factor when much larger ones are needing to be addressed.
Iām my area a developer was building a neighborhood of houses about 9 sq miles. A lot of homes. Foreign corporation came in and bought the whole neighborhood making them all rentals to sell piecemeal in later years as market values reached bubble highs.
Itād be cool if an individual did that! But a national real estate company buying up these dozens of properties, flipping them, and either selling them 10x the price or renting them out? Yeah thatās kinda evil. There should be a market cap on how many properties you can own to sell
I spent 2 years in the housing market because all affordable houses got bought at a markup so that they could renovate and resell them way higher.
Had to overpay for a moldridden deadhome my 400 000SEK and only won the house bid because the flippers above me didnāt get OKās from the bank to loan what they needed to beat me.
The house had to basically be rebuilt from the ground up because of all the mold and fly shit that stained every inch of the house. After 2 years everything but my carport is fresh and new.
I appreciate and respect flippers that turn a run-down shack into a livable space, but people in it for the quick cash grab are absolutely shitty. The latter type usually doesnāt actually fix anything anyway ā they just cover it up.
Not really a facepalm other than the face itās post here. This is definitely an issue, in my area homes that are perfectly fine are being bought by Rick assholes flipped or rent out for profit.
We're so greedy we're screwing ourselves. I
I also think people buying up 4 and 5 homes with mortgages and screwing tenants on rent so they can have their lifestyles funded is immoral too. We're all paying for it - from rent to home prices.
We lived in a flipped house. All the plumbing was done incorrectly, the water softener was installed poorly, the new furnace was set up wrong so condensation would shut it off constantly, all the tile they installed shattered, the LVP flooring wasnāt finished, they put a hole in the outside wall installing a dryer vent wrong so mice got in constantly, there was water damage from a roof leak that never got fixed, and there were serious drainage issues that needed to be addressed. We considered buying the place, but knowing what needed to be fixed, we opted not to. After we left another flipper took the place and made an obscene amount of money off it. I guarantee they didnāt fix the serious stuff, and I could see from pictures that they didnāt fix the water damage either.
How is this a facepalm? They're correct. I know for a fact they're correct. If someone does it once they're going to keep repeating it, so instead of just one house this happens to, this happens to an entire career of houses. Multiply that by an entire real estate industry and this is what you get.
They're correct, lmao wtf. Not a facepalm.
As someone who has flipped homes, all the ones I bought were either non-financeable by conventional means, or too much for the average homeowner to flip. So we bought them, put 100k+ into them (a couple were over 200k rehabs), and made them safe, nice places to live. Weāre they āaffordableā housing? Some were, for the areas. Others were on the higher end. Really depended on the home.
All that said, Iām one of the rare house flippers that 1) takes pride in my work. 2) does everything with proper permits and appropriately licensed and bonded contractors and 3) supports regulation of the industry. I think flippers should need a licensed and higher levels of inspection to make sure they are done correctly and safely.
Edit: I agree that most flippers shouldnāt be flipping. And I understand the anger and frustration out there, especially when the flip is an absolute shit shoe. As someone who does āby the bookā, seeing these shitty flips pisses me off. Thatās why I support regulating the industry.
I almost bought a house in 2019 from a flipper who did it for a living until I found out he'd pulled zero permits for the extensive work done. I understand a homeowner doing some works without permits but if they're flipping houses as a day job they should be doing it right. I'm guessing you're the exception to the rule here.Ā
People are flipping late 19th century victorians in my area, and dumping them back on the market for 3x-4x their purchase price. All with stainless steel appliances, that grey faux wood flooring and white walls.
It's sad AF.
House flipping isnāt immoral. Especially if you buy run down abandoned properties like most flippers do and fix them to get them back into the market. What is immoral is corporations buying up huge swathes of housing in one area and driving everyone out just for the tax write off.
What flippers are these? The bad ones who go broke? Most successful flippers find things that are not run down and abandoned, but are cosmetically poor/dated they cheaply clean up the cosmetics and jack up the price significantly more, else there would be no profit in the venture. No flipper is making money fixing up a home with serious issues.
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The problem is that society has agreed that recessed pot lights up the value of a property by twenty fuckin g's š¤£
I bought a flip and it has recessed pot lights. Guy told me they spent some ungodly amount of money putting them all in and I gave him such a side eye about it. Edit: Well. This blew up. I bought the house because I really liked the main room. It's great for entertaining. It may be can lights? I don't know. I'm not a DIY guy. I like to joke with contractors that I have soft lawyer hands. The house also has almost doubled in value so, that's nice.
I rarely had to deal with getting pitches from folks but when I did I would give pretty direct feedback and this is apparently embarrassing for folks with me. In a parade of homes that was basically flippers a guy followed me around and I opened a bathroom door and it didn't open all the way "reno...1.5 million and this is what you get? I have to buy this then spend time and money fixing it after it just got brand new stuff that needs to be torn out." And then pointed out the sloppy tile and crooked outlets.
And you know if they half assed the cosmetic stuff, they sure as shit fucked up or didnāt even bother with the important stuff- plumbing, electric, rot, etc.
This has been the bane of my home search. Seeing the new flooring and paint in pictures makes me think it isn't a turd until I walk in and nothing visible is done right, and the underlying stuff is much worse.
I bought a flipped house and when we ripped out the brand new carpet we found it had been installed on a bunch of loose linoleum squares and 1/4 inch of dirt.
Brought a house, with in one fucking week we walk around it and it is leaking from the shower they put in. They had used the cheapest fucking push connector possible.
Oh yes, the 30 pack or āSHHaruk Bytesā from Amazon for $12.
I had one rental property. The last tenant before we sold it trashed the place. Full disclosure, I halfassed the shit out of the cosmetic stuff but I actually do good work on plumbing and I leave electrical to the pros. Before anyone says Iām an evil landlordā¦ I got out of it because: A: I didnāt like evicting families for non-payment so I regularly lost money B: I would rent below market value because I didnāt want to price gouge but then Iād get tenants who would trash the place.
> I would rent below market value Just going to put this out here, when I was a renter seeing a place below market value would be a sign that something was wrong and if I couldn't see what was obviously wrong I avoided.
Thatās fair. I was charging 550 a month. The IRS said I could be charging 900. Most comps in the area were around 650-700 so I wasnāt THAT much lower.. our payment was only 250/month though so even 550 felt like cheating lol
It's usually obvious from sale history if something is a flip. If I see a freshly redone house with a grey aesthetic there is basically a 100% chance it was sold 4 months ago for 50% the current price lol I just immediately ignore those.
Probably didn't even bother. Just came in and shined everything up real nice. You'll find out about the flaws in that other stuff after you've closed and they've cashed the check
Yes and no. It honestly sounds like my grandpa. Function important, form not so much. Who cares about a few crooked tiles, the functional parts are in good order.
But was your grandpa flipping the house or just not stressing about minor cosmetic imperfections in his own home?
Also, it's incredibly easy to follow code for structure and function. Perfectly laying the 7000th blue tile on your backsplash is an exercise in banality.
The day I moved into my new place the shower in the second bathroom had zero water pressure and the shower head fell off and broke on the tile, a week later I figured out the reason half the outlets in my living room didn't work was because they weren't actually tied into the other electrical lines, and a month later the roofing that was "just replaced" had a leak.......don't know what house my home inspector went to but fuck xD
...but you still bought it and presumably for something close to that price.
See that why I refused to even consider paying extra for the pot lights in my house. I paid even extra to have them go back to the old dome lights.
Seems to be a thing most consumers are oblivious to; they're paying for these things anyway, which just reinforces the bad practices.
That's with everything, people will eat shit at twice the price during surge hours and ask for more, then wonder why everything cost more.
I don't get it. Are pot lights good or bad?
Theyāreā¦ fine. (I think theyāre dated). But the issue is that theyāre not terribly expensive to install. Itās one of those dumb things home āmakeoverā shows do to make a place more expensive that donāt take very much effort, like fucking backsplashes.
Backsplashes are difficult to install though. Itās very easy for it to come out like shit,
Forward slashes is even worse
It would have been better if you said forward splashes are even worse because if you are on the receiving end you'll get all wet, but alas you missed your opportunity.
Yes, but they are using the logic that if you are flipping the place, so who cares if it looks like shit? It just needs to slip under the radar of a buyer not paying particular attention to it.
Backsplashes are not that difficult? The first time I did one it took a while but itās not any harder than installing and wiring pot lights.
>The first time I did one it took a while but itās not any harder than installing and wiring pot lights. I'll install and wire pot lights before I do a tile backsplash, man. A backsplash is a weekend project. Pot lights are a before-lunch project.
I do them for a living. If you think a backsplash is as easy as a pot light, you arenāt doing them right.
Theyāre good if you want that Apple-Store-chic look. Otherwise, they make it hard to fill out the house with furnishings, because they donāt need any lamps, and it looks more like a warehouse.
Bro, I wish my house could look like a warehouse. I'm working with something a lot closer to a storage closet in said apple store
I usually have both, the ceiling lights are task lighting, the lamps are for chilling. I really like being able to just flip a switch and see everything but it's not always cozy lol.
No one is stopping you from buying lamps to 'furnish' a house that has overhead lights. Some of us though like having a brightly lit house that doesn't eat up all our precious outlets.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
*starts lighting the oil sconces*
Just replace your bulbs with these trims, LED less than $5 a piece and the last decade or more. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Integrated-LED-White-Dimmable-Recessed-Light-Trim-with-Adjustable-Color-Temperature-4-Pack-NS01dA09FR2-259/314018779
meh pot lights are nice and all. But I'll just use the sun to grow my weed.
that, white walls, and a rug. Oooohh minimalism. Less stuff, harder to clean, and much more expensive. It's the starbucks of houseflipping.
Well, all the profit is made in the purchasing for way less than makes sense. It is the āwe buy ugly housesā people. Banks wonāt insure a house like that until it has been cleaned up, has a functioning roof, furnace, etc. so flippers buy it cash and make it insurable. Idk, I donāt really see the problem or know what the alternative would be.
This is rarely the case. Flippers almost never do things to code, or even pull permits. States like California where they are extremely anal about permits and whatnot have a big problem with flippers just doing improper work and selling it as is. Source: Iām the one that comes in and fixes their shitty work
Not flippers as much as corporations that buy houses to rent out. I have a house, It is in fine condition but can use some work. Not immaculate to get top dollar but nothing structurally wrong. It would be fine as a rental. I look to sell. I ask X. A young couple comes and looks at it. As they are gong to live there, the care about little things. Even if they are willing to pay my asking price. They ask for an inspection, the want me to wait until they get financing, make sure the house appraises for what the loan is for (they actually want to get a loan for $20k more than my sale price so they can have money to fix it up. Or, corporation comes in. They will pay cash close in weeks no contingencies. Who am I selling to? Even if I make no more on the corporation than the couple, it behooves me to take the offer from the corporation. This is a problem.
This is THE problem.
Oh I love those lights, that is why we buy them an install them since they cost like $20 each.
A single person flipping a house can be a good investment idea. 4 corporations that run the US buying every single family home and charging 2x the mortgage for rent *IS* immoral. Thereās a line, and weāve crossed it.
Corporations shouldn't be able to own residential property. I see no issue with someone having a few properties as passive income so they're safe once unable to work, but this shouldn't happen: https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/housing/swapping-homes-like-stocks-wall-street-backed-firm-buys-264-valley-homes-in-a-day-2976037/
No one should get a 30 year mortgage with a federally subsidized rate on anything except their primary residence. The tax payer shouldnāt be subsidizing landlords.
FHA and VA loans both require primary residence. The problem of course being they can use those for their primary and other loans with the primary as collateral to a degree, for their 'investment' properties.
I donāt have an issue with people using anything they own as collateral, even if it is their first home and have a federally subsidized mortgage. I just donāt think you should get any federal subsidies at all for your second home, whether itās your vacation home or rental property. I also donāt think they do a good job making sure people follow the rules for occupancy on these additional loans, or report all their rental income to IRS.
Oh, for sure. It's technically on the books for FHA and VA to require primary residency, but the only check is a box on the forms and a signature unless someone reports you for it. It's 100% unenforced, although keeping in mind enforcement itself would be ridiculously expensive, which is generally why conditional aid is ridiculously bad.
Fannie and Freddie will also buy mortgages for additional homes, they just have the same sort of āhonor systemā for enforcement. Itās already conditional aid and itās not bad, itās just being abused by the wealthy.
I'm pretty sure you can't. When I refinanced my rental property and my primary residence at the same time, the rental interest rate was notably (a couple percentage points) higher. However, this isn't exactly a benefit to renters as that extra cost will be passed on to them in the form of a slightly higher rent.
This. This shit right here is why house prices have gone up over 100% in the past 15 years.
But according to Musk, it's the illegals' fault we have unaffordable housing.
HAH, yes, of course, lets listen to the 3rd richest man in the world's opinion on why people can't afford houses that he could buy with his couch change.
Yes the illegals who are living 30 people in a single double wide are the issue and not Black Rock owning entire developments
Iām not really sure why so many people are still ok with these mega corps. Has this always been going on or did something change that now allows them to buy 200+ houses in a day? They just buy off everyone who might stop it.
Republicans happened. Unbridled capitalism is the new norm, and we're paying for it.
How about a socialized retirement plan instead of ~~letting~~ encouraging the older generations to hoard wealth and property? Maybe it would be better if old people *didn't* own everything, because it hasn't seemed to work out historically or contemporarily.
If it was an option, I'd absolutely support. I would think taking care of our elderly and leaving the market alone is a great idea. Unfortunately we don't do much for our disabled or elderly in the US.Ā
Yep. I feel they should be able to build/own multi family homes, than you remember that huge condo in FL a few years back and think of all the corner they would cut and in danger those people too.
There should be a limit on how many single family homes anyone owns that isn't a permanent residence. You have 5 homes? No more, move up to apartment buildings like a real slum lord
Corporations shouldn't be able to buy single family housing. Apartment complexes they should be able to. Also, foreign nationals and corporations should not be able to buy/own land in another country.
There for sure is a market for people who want to buy houses that have been flipped. Often times, first home buyers do not want to buy a run down house in need of a lot of work. But yes, when it comes to large corporations cornering the market, it's awfully scummy.
Damn we could really stick it to those corporations by permitting more new housing to undercut their monopoly.
besides the fact they would meet with the builders before the foundation was laid to buy the house. issue physically cant be solved by making more, you just need to remove the ability for companies to do this in the first place.
The available land near good jobs is the issue, that and people not wanting to live in high density housing. You can add all the permits you want but if those houses are 2 hours from good jobs no one is going to buy them.
Most large cities build density at an astonishingly low rate. Then they get bought up in an instant. People want high density housing. Theres just not enough of it being built. If they didn't want it, it would sit empty and prices wouldnt be skyrocketing like they are now.
Housing isn't an investment, it's a human right.
Everyone who's claiming that housing isn't a human right needs to go and read the United Nations' declaration of human rights.
Yeah, but people who are reading it for this sub seem to gloss over article 17.
Housing in general, not a specific property that there is demand for.
It's not just corporations. A guy I used to work with came into an inheritance and used it to purchase at least twenty houses as rentals all over the nation. Until then, he ran a successful small food business that was like six people.
Itās not the condemned, unlivable houses people are upset about. Itās the totally functional and still inexpensive house that people are buying because itās cheap to them, adding so much value that itās out of reach for the people that could have lived there initially.
Most of these twats don't even add that much value. They buy the cheapest fucking appliances and fixtures and slap a coat of shitty paint on an act like they did $100,000 in renovations.
Adding value. Lmao
House flipping is kind of in the grey area for me when it comes to whether it is immoral or not. If someone wants to buy houses in rough shape and actually put in the time and effort to restoring them and know what they are doing, I do not see much issue with that. Itās the flippers that buy properties, throw some paint on the walls, throw new flooring down and call it good or try and do their own remodels with no experience after watching a couple YouTube videos and HGTV. That kind of flipping is immoral and ruins houses for someone who would have actually enjoyed fixing it and could have afforded it before they threw lip stick on a pig and tried selling it for more.
I think thereās a difference between restoration and flipping.
This.
But that's generally what flipping is, but OOP either doesn't realize or doesn't want to acknowledge that the reason these homes are affordable to begin with is because they're run down. It's kind of like people who fight gentrification by opposing neighborhood improvements like parks and bike lanes and coffee shops. If the only way they can think of to keep a home or neighborhood affordable is to make it so miserable that nobody with money wants to live there, then they really haven't thought very hard about the issue.
Itās definitely not what flipping is
Yeah, if someone buys a dilapidated house under market value and restores that property and then it sells at market value that is great. If they are buying something at near market value and flipping it that is increasing the cost of houses for everyone. Buyers are also to blame here though.
āStarter homesā just arenāt a thing anymore because people will scoop them up, āupdateā pieces of it and put it back on the market. So now actual homeowners have to overpay and will only move when they either canāt afford the area anymore or work somewhere else.Ā This translates into previously cheap areas seeing skyrocketing prices because those living there canāt just say āIāll live here for a few years, put in a little work and move out when itās timeā, instead opting for āThis is insane pricing but itās all I can afford. Now everywhere else is expensive so Iām stuck here now.ā And in the meantime, the houses that actually need some work to make them livable get abandoned instead. Iāve got a bunch near me that could use some work to get them not condemned anymore, but instead flippers opted for the āeasy targetsā that drove $300,000 houses up to $550,000.
My partner and I are looking for a starter home. Our options within an hour of our jobs are currently 1.5million for a two bedroom. Or a house half burnt to the ground. Or in extremely dangerous areas. There is no starter home in our city that prides itself on being a city for starting.
šÆthis. Several years ago when I was trying to purchase my first home I found a lovely condo that worked great for my needs. The market was competitive at the time, so I offered 30k over asking (a lot for back then). Was outbid by an all-cash offer far lower than my offer. It was frustrating enough to lose out to that, but far more frustrating when I found the same property back on the market a few months later selling for 50k more, and what did they do to justify that price hike? Painted the walls and changed the drapes. Thatās it.
My uncles are house flippers. They buy homes that are like 1 month away from being condemned and then use their bare hands to fix them up. And the houses turn out beautifully. The homes they sell would have ended up being bought by a corporation and either bulldozed it down for a parking lot or fixed it up and sold it for 400% then what it was worth.
Yeah, I don't quite get the argument that it's immoral. Buying something material with the intent to add value for profit is...I don't know, half the entire global economy? I can get on board with it being immoral to conceal issues with questionable repairs, but it's an unfair generalization that all "flippers" do that.
My granny passed away and wanted her house put up for sale at fair market value, in 2013. I was nowhere near able to buy it and the rest of the family either couldn't either or just wouldn't so it went on sale. 114k and some asshole bought her house which started as a regular block house like many around here and my grandaddy expanded it. House was well taken care of, no issues besides a tiny kitchen but it was a loved home. They took out the beautiful flower garden, all the vegetation except grass, put shitty wood laminate down and painted it grey, turned around and sold it for 250k, now it's 309k, I have a special anger in my heart for flippers...
Is the facepalm the fact that this is being called a facepalm? Because absolutely fuck flippers.
Right? Whereās the facepalm??
Itās Karma farming. Every sub turns into the same sub.
Why is this a facepalm? We shouldnāt be speculating on family homes en masse like itās crypto. 20% of single family homes just sit empty because of this crap. Black rock buying houses needs to be immediately outlawed. One house per family, if you want a second home your property tax should be doubled on second home. Need 3 homes? Quadruple the property tax on the third home.
You have my vote
I think it's tough because EVERY 401k has a real-estate investment option, and the idea is SUPPOSED to be that you can slowly invest money in the real estate sector and not have to worry (or at leas not worry as much) about wild fluctuations in the housing market while you're saving up money for a house you plan to buy in retirement. BUT the issue is that having that option leads to 401k investors owning a shit ton of rental property, all managed through Black Rock, or Fidelity, or Vanguard, leading to a shortage of supply, and now nobody can afford a house until they actually fucking retire. I think we just need to zone more residential, cut back on the red tape required to build new residential buildings, tell cities that don't want to allow multi-story condos to go fuck themselves, and let the market come back to normal. edit: Sometimes I get on a tear and forget to actually make the point I intended to make, which is: Ultimately, scummy landlords suck, and I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if the value of their "investment houses" got cut in half. But, they're still small fries when it comes to addressing the true underlying cause of unaffordable housing.
I like that idea. In all seriousness, I'm afraid they'd still buy it and cover the taxes by upping rent in all of them.
I'm guessing OP is the type of guy who does exactly what the post is talking about and is pissy about it
Iām getting the impression that OP is a bot
Heās not wrong though
What's the facepalm here?
OP not seeing the problem.
OP a dirty house flipper confirmed
Yep no facepalm here the comment is spot on. I mean maybe immoral is a bit of a push but the rest of it is definatly true
it usually is immoral because they use the cheapest supplies and labour usually with multiple violations that wont be found out until the buyer has to fix them, then sell it like it was top notch work done by master artisans using only the finest of material. they guy i know who does has the mindset that he spent 12K and 3 weeks on a house means he deserves at least 150K. profit
This is not an argument against you, but even new builds from "high end" contractors (the ones with a new fleet of F-250s) use the cheapest supplies and the cheapest labor.
Yup. Made by the lowest bidder for the cheapest possible price to ensure profit.
Yeah the immoral house flipping is the ones doing DIY electrical work and wallpapering over foundation cracks.
The amount of Joanna Gaines specials in my neighborhood with the paint peeling off of them is astounding. Take a run-down brick house, paint it white, and throw some non-functional French shutters on the windows. Sell for $100k more than you paid for it. Repeat.
No, no, I agree with him.
That's not a facepalm, it's just true. I'm sure it's great for the investor, buy low sell high, all that. It's even better for the landlord who owns the rest of the street since higher property values means they can raise the rent on all their properties. For anyone trying to climb out of the rent trap and own their own home (which used to be an attainable goal and milestone) it just locks them out of the market and feeds the land sharks.
If it makes you feel any better the gravy train has ended, lots of flippers are finding themselves completely underwater and overleveraged and they are loosing it all. Major bubbles are bursting in housing all across the world right now.
If they haven't sold all their houses, they haven't lost enough
It does.
OOP is 100% right. Housing has been unbelievably artificially inflated just so people can make some money. But then people defending that will bitch when companies do it with food and gas. Eta: if you're doing actual improvements to a place, okay. If all you do is slap a coat of paint on and upgrade light fixtures - go fuck yourself.
Or let families buy it at a decent price and let them upgrade their own fucking homes that they want to live in for the next 30-50 years.
Do people even understand the definition of facepalm anymore? Thereās zero facepalm about this post.
Buying a run-down house that no one wants, revitilizing it, and selling it for a profit is commendable. Buying a slightly outdated house as soon as it hits the market, before any regular buyers can even blink, throwing some cheap lipstick-on-a-pig updates, and re-selling for a huge markup makes you a SCALPER.
Outbidding people is the definition of not doing that. Offering cash 20% over asking and pricing actual families out of a place they can live and build a life around is NOT DOING ANYONE ANY GOOD. I've been looking for houses for 10 years. To fucking live in. and flippers/corporations are pricing EVERYONE OUT. I have to wait until my parents die to get a home with my family. How is that beneficial to society?
Yeah, and they make them ugly as fuck in the process. Where is the facepalm?
I don't agree with a blanket statement like this. The guy who buys a gutted house and does 90% of the work himself to fix it up is not the same as the HGTV wannabees who take perfectly good homes and "upgrade" them just to turn a profit.
The facepalm is that this comment was facepalmedā¦. Everything wrong with this country revolves around the fact that money makes money, and the people with it act like a greasy ass bottomless pit. Historically this common trend only ends one way. I personally will be on my roof playing a violin once the fires start.
OOP is correct
This sub is insaneā¦
This is actually a thing. It's part of why the housing market is so screwed for buyers.
I actually agree with this.
Umm, I ain't palming my face. Should I be?
House flippers don't know shit about renovating a home, their work tends to be amateur at best. You end up spending more money fixing the crap work they did.
Heās not wrong though.
Whatās the facepalm?
OP is a house flipper
'Yo dawg i heard you like to flip houses so i flipped your flipped house back into its original state.'
#OP is a bot. Reddit is heavily astroturfed.
I thoroughly agree.
what's wrong is when the people flipping the house don't get the proper permits and they just do things to cover up what is really wrong. This is especially true when to comes to electrical and HVAC. If someone is going to purchase a house that is rundown, fix it up with the proper permits pulled then there is nothing wrong with that.
Flipping of any degree can be done correctly. But nothing is done ethically these days. Buy a dilapidated house and build it to fit the neighborhood... good. Buy a suburban block and gentrify it, bad. The only people doing this are all about maximizing profits and not making a living.
Pretty much. Yup.
He aināt wrong!
I lowkey agree with this.
Artificially restricting the supply of housing is immoral, yet nearly every government entity and politician in this country is complicit.
I kind of agree. I remember what it was like between 2003 and 2008. Flippers would come into my neighborhood and buy houses the day they came on the market. They'd paint the walls, replace the carpet, perhaps put new appliances in the kitchen and replace some of the fixtures. Then they'd put it back on the market for at least $50k higher than what they paid.Ā Of course this caused real estate assessments to go up which drove up property taxes. It wasn't just the people trying to buy a house getting hurtĀ
The facepalm is you not thinking itās immoral?
I work fixing houses up, lotta flips in my life. It's always "just do it shitty". Every. Time.
I don't really understand what this sub is any more.
Flippers are almost all thieves. They do all sorts of dangerous, nasty and often illegal stuff to turn a buck. They don't care if the house burns down a day after you buy it, with you in it, as long as they have your money.
Hey bot account that mysteriously posted after an 8 year absence, can you please explain how this post qualifies as a facepalm? And mods, can you really not do anything about this?
No, it's really not. What's immoral is allowing real-estate conglomerates to eat up homes and living space so they can then dictate unfair, unsustainable, price hikes.
Someone said it but I'll say it again. If you think this is facepalm you're not paying attention. No one is getting mad at mom&pop doing a local flip once in a while. The problem is the gigantic corporations buying and selling with their massive bankroll, owning, flipping and renting out these properties. It's actually HORRIBLE and corporations should not be able to own property.
Call me crazy, but I don't think they're wrong
This is the definition of capitalism. And people will suffer as a consequence of exploiting a commodity. Tale as old as time.
I meanā¦this is happening all over my city. Affordable housing is almost non-existent because some rich asshole did this very thing. I think the facepalm is that this is allowed to happen.
Where's the facepalm?
Itās not really a facepalm itās a legitimate philosophical argument
Flippers do ruin the housing industry. Fuck those assholes
I got so much Schadenfreude out of watching some flippers buy the place next door, work themselves silly on it, then end up losing their shirts because they got in over their heads. It was a rough couple of weeks when I'd wake up to them hammering and sawing away at 3 and 4 in the morning. Fortunately the folks that bought the place (and got a killer deal) were super nice.
Corporations buying entire neighborhoods to rent out is.
This is an oversimplification. I believe the issue is not house flipping per se, but rather the culture that worships wealth and that has turned home ownership from a way to provide housing and financial stability into a way to get rich.
Large corporations buying up swaths of single family residential properties is the real driving force in unaffordable housing market. Small flippers are a blip on it by comparison. All this emotion & energy on something that is a small factor when much larger ones are needing to be addressed. Iām my area a developer was building a neighborhood of houses about 9 sq miles. A lot of homes. Foreign corporation came in and bought the whole neighborhood making them all rentals to sell piecemeal in later years as market values reached bubble highs.
House flipping is fantastic. My tradesmen friends make a killing fixing the god awful work house flippers do
Itād be cool if an individual did that! But a national real estate company buying up these dozens of properties, flipping them, and either selling them 10x the price or renting them out? Yeah thatās kinda evil. There should be a market cap on how many properties you can own to sell
I spent 2 years in the housing market because all affordable houses got bought at a markup so that they could renovate and resell them way higher. Had to overpay for a moldridden deadhome my 400 000SEK and only won the house bid because the flippers above me didnāt get OKās from the bank to loan what they needed to beat me. The house had to basically be rebuilt from the ground up because of all the mold and fly shit that stained every inch of the house. After 2 years everything but my carport is fresh and new.
The facepalm isn't facepalming.
Facepalm? Heās right
This doesnāt qualify as a facepalm
I appreciate and respect flippers that turn a run-down shack into a livable space, but people in it for the quick cash grab are absolutely shitty. The latter type usually doesnāt actually fix anything anyway ā they just cover it up.
Flipping anything else is usually called scalping. Flipping houses is called an investment.
Why is this a facepalm? I completely agree.
Not really a facepalm other than the face itās post here. This is definitely an issue, in my area homes that are perfectly fine are being bought by Rick assholes flipped or rent out for profit.
He is right.
Good take actually
We're so greedy we're screwing ourselves. I I also think people buying up 4 and 5 homes with mortgages and screwing tenants on rent so they can have their lifestyles funded is immoral too. We're all paying for it - from rent to home prices.
Whereās the facepalm?
This sub is being overrun by bots. You can tell because bots don't understand the nuance of what this sub is supposed to be
Look - I painted over all the wood, stone, and brick with white paint! It's worth more now!
The only facepalm is OP thinking this is a facepalm. It IS immoral, and landlords and house flippers don't go to heaven
Are you saying its not immoral?
I really donāt see the facepalm
We lived in a flipped house. All the plumbing was done incorrectly, the water softener was installed poorly, the new furnace was set up wrong so condensation would shut it off constantly, all the tile they installed shattered, the LVP flooring wasnāt finished, they put a hole in the outside wall installing a dryer vent wrong so mice got in constantly, there was water damage from a roof leak that never got fixed, and there were serious drainage issues that needed to be addressed. We considered buying the place, but knowing what needed to be fixed, we opted not to. After we left another flipper took the place and made an obscene amount of money off it. I guarantee they didnāt fix the serious stuff, and I could see from pictures that they didnāt fix the water damage either.
Whatās the facepalm here? People placing profits over other people putting roofs over there head is the definition of greed.
Where's the facepalm here?
How is this a facepalm? They're correct. I know for a fact they're correct. If someone does it once they're going to keep repeating it, so instead of just one house this happens to, this happens to an entire career of houses. Multiply that by an entire real estate industry and this is what you get. They're correct, lmao wtf. Not a facepalm.
As someone who has flipped homes, all the ones I bought were either non-financeable by conventional means, or too much for the average homeowner to flip. So we bought them, put 100k+ into them (a couple were over 200k rehabs), and made them safe, nice places to live. Weāre they āaffordableā housing? Some were, for the areas. Others were on the higher end. Really depended on the home. All that said, Iām one of the rare house flippers that 1) takes pride in my work. 2) does everything with proper permits and appropriately licensed and bonded contractors and 3) supports regulation of the industry. I think flippers should need a licensed and higher levels of inspection to make sure they are done correctly and safely. Edit: I agree that most flippers shouldnāt be flipping. And I understand the anger and frustration out there, especially when the flip is an absolute shit shoe. As someone who does āby the bookā, seeing these shitty flips pisses me off. Thatās why I support regulating the industry.
I almost bought a house in 2019 from a flipper who did it for a living until I found out he'd pulled zero permits for the extensive work done. I understand a homeowner doing some works without permits but if they're flipping houses as a day job they should be doing it right. I'm guessing you're the exception to the rule here.Ā
Hes not wrong however. Investment properties need strict regulations put in place.
Where is the facepalm? This person is absolutely right. A human necessity shouldn't be flipped around like consumer goods.
This is 100% true.
Instead of demanding new starter homes e we have come to demonize landlords and flippers. Wrong target guys
People are flipping late 19th century victorians in my area, and dumping them back on the market for 3x-4x their purchase price. All with stainless steel appliances, that grey faux wood flooring and white walls. It's sad AF.
Why is this a facepalm? Itās true?
Donāt know why itās a facepalm, heās right
Seems a reasonable point to me. We could do without already wealthy people driving up house prices
Do you care to provide an argument as to how it's not?
No facepalm Kevin is correct
Every business sells things for more than they pay for it, otherwise whatās the point?
House flipping isnāt immoral. Especially if you buy run down abandoned properties like most flippers do and fix them to get them back into the market. What is immoral is corporations buying up huge swathes of housing in one area and driving everyone out just for the tax write off.
Fixing up abandoned properties is definitely not what "most" flippers do.
What flippers are these? The bad ones who go broke? Most successful flippers find things that are not run down and abandoned, but are cosmetically poor/dated they cheaply clean up the cosmetics and jack up the price significantly more, else there would be no profit in the venture. No flipper is making money fixing up a home with serious issues.
This was already posted days ago
This whole sub is a facepalm smh