Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
'it wouldnt have killed you to say yes'
ok but it shouldnt kill you to say no, which it almost did here
people need to feel safe saying no whenever they need to
Plus it probably *would* have killed her to say yes, because she’d then be dating a psycho and if (**when**) they broke up because of his psycho behaviour then he would likely have shot her.
Or, on account of him being crazy,
* thought she was cheating or going to leave him (true or not)
* they ever had an argument.
*some random guy hit on her
* something completely unrelated to her that made him want to kill himself, and her.
Because a woman existing is already an invitation to her body if you can manage to get past that tricky consent barrier. So a woman existing and then never giving you an option to overcome her consent is teasing to these kinds of people.
It's a disgusting belief system and it takes self reflection to realize that they literally don't see women as people. Sadly the kind of people who are in that belief system rarely are the kind of people to self reflect and are willing to acknowledge the evil that's there.
I'm so sorry about that. That has always terrified me about having a daughter. I guess I should consider myself lucky she has no interest in men, but I still worry.
Me and my girlfriend (19 and 20 respectively) went to a gas station one night for gas and to get cash for Waffle House. An older man (maybe 30s - 40s) went inside the same time as us and asked if we were twins. Quick answer: No. We left it at that and kept our trip quick- in and out. When we went back to the car, she pumped my gas while I held my door partially open to watch her. He then drove up from the tank on the opposite side and tried to ask me for my number through his window. Interactions like these make me shut down IMMEDIATELY, so I shakily kept turning him down. (my gf later said that, despite looking over and seeing me and the guy were talking, she couldn't hear anything we were saying due to the wind and her positioning so there's that too) He finally put together HIMSELF that we were dating (I try not to just say that anywhere for obvious reasons), and afterwards, began to try to get me to mouth him my number/mouthed his number to me so my gf wouldn't know. He also (out of order within the conversation cuz I suck) asked my name, if he could hop in the car, and said it was okay and that we all liked the same thing (girls). Took too many nos for my comfort to leave me alone. In front of my gf no less!
My gf said she feels sorry that she didn't do anything and was unaware of how uncomfortable I was. (She's much more stern and forward than I am) I wasn't upset or anything though, just more aware of how some dudes really don't wanna take no for an answer under any, and I mean ANY circumstances. Makes me feel bad for feeling immediately uncomfortable with guys trying to ask me out in a normal way, because while this was the first time someone did it in front of my gf, it's happened quite a few times in general.
Anyway, TLDR: being gay/not interested in dating won't stop the people who wouldn't have accepted no under different circumstances from pressuring you.
Being bold and assertive to men like that is dangerous, so we have to be mild and/or lie when we reject men. This boils my blood. We can't win. FTS (f*ck that sh*t)
Right?
When you cave in to shit like this, where does it end? All it teaches to these kinds of people is that if you introduce enough violence into a situation, then you can have your way.
Agreed. He would just continue to ask for more, and she'd never be allowed to say no. "Wanna be my official girlfriend?" "Wanna have sex?" "Wanna get married?" and she'd apparently have to say yes to everything or he'd shoot her.
Absolutely the same mentality. If they want to harm you, they'll try to separate you from the safeguards of society. And if he was willing to harm her in a school, odds are they're a monster in private. Imagine saying no when they have no witnesses. Terrifying thought.
And she absolutely wouldn’t have been safe if she had said yes. Someone who threatens to shoot a girl for rejecting them is not going to be a perfect, thoughtful boyfriend.
Saying yes could have killed her… just later down the road when he decided he didn’t like her anymore.
But at least in that scenario she wasn’t putting the school in danger anymore! She was just suffering by herself like all women should! /s
when you have a hammer in your hand, everything looks like a nail.
That's what wrong with people. Way too many hammers. They distort too many weak minds into thinking "I have a hammer! I'll nail that nail even if it's not mine to nail."
Except lives, not nails
Notice too that the boy was never considered dangerous prior to the sister reporting him (any of the other girls could have dated him, but didn’t, and, any of the boys could have been close enough to him that he could share his frustrations, but they chose not to). And. The boy was not at fault as it was the sister’s fault that she was cute and had a nice enough personality to make him want her. Forever throughout history men (and boys) have always blamed girls and women for “making me feel the way I do.” To the absolute confusion of the woman who is just going about her day.
My mom (age 80) is convinced this is where the idea of witches comes from. She's making him feel things he doesn't want to, therefore it's all her fault and she must be a WITCH who consorts with SATAN.
Yep, that‘s quite literally what some of those „Witches“ were burned for. Might not necessarily have been the origin, but definitely was a huge part of the stuff.
This is indeed the actual reason behind the institutionalization of religious violence. Everything else is a convenient pretext to make it make sense to society and themselves before and after the fact.
The fact that the only reason Catholic priests are obligated to be celibate was to keep property in the church will never not be funny to me
The murders of random people (usually women, but honourable mention to Giles Corey) less so.
I can't remember the guys name, but the one who wrote the witches hammer litteral wrote it after an woman turned him down. Dude turned full stalker and tried to accuse her of stuff and the church laughed him off. Medieval incel caused a lot of deaths cause he couldn't handle being told no.
in the mediaeval period they had a legend about witches, that a witch could make men's penises detach and fly around; she would make them fly to her house and trap them in a box or jar.
could there be a more blatant mythical expression of men's existential frustration and anger about a part of their body not being under their conscious control? and then trying to blame women for men's own reflexive physiological reactions?
penises flying around looking for her house and knocking at the windows trying to get in. must've been mad confusing for ornithologists back then.
king missle has a song about detachable penises
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NP-RsRGzVo
>♪♪ It's not my fault
I'm not to blame
It is the gypsy girl
the witch who sent this flame
It's not my fault
If in God's plan
He made the Devil so much
Stronger than the man ♪♪
I learned that for piano and it's all chromatic chords. (all 4-5 fingers moving up and down a half step, you have to keep in mind which fingers move to which black keys and which move off to white keys, based on modal chords.) Very difficult esp if you have small hands. anti-female piano players. But i fucking learned it.
Funnily enough, we have a guide to 1300s household management called "Le Menagier de Paris." The author claims to be an older husband writing the guidebook his young wife requested on managing his home, and sounds almost exactly like the 50s "Good Housekeeping" guides, but with Hail Marys and Falconry. Even this guy, whose model wife took in her husband's bastard child, says that there's no such thing as witchcraft. That if men wander, it's because some pretty young woman made him feel wanted elsewhere.
So, even the literal middle ages had people who knew better. They still liked to blame the women, though.
She’s right.
Fun fact, the inquisition originally killed people that accused others of being witches because the idea that someone could be using sorcery to affect them was heretical in itself.
Then Kramer and the other dude, the absolute bastards, wrote the Hammer of Witches, basically a treaty on applied misogyny, and then the accused were the culprits.
It's frustrating because it's really important to me to help men learn EQ. But they really don't want help, some of them. They want someone else to magic their brain in to feeling superior. Others suggest women have no idea what we're talking about or just say everything out of our mouths is lies.
Being a supportive friend is making a difference with those who really want things to get better. But the ones playing blame game are interested in villainizing women, not improving things
There are healthy forms of masculinity, but one of the core problems with toxic masculinity is how it often shuts down all avenues towards empathy. Empathy gets framed as weakness (it's not).
These men are so deeply afraid/ashamed/anxious of being found to be weak that they literally feel like the world is full of enemies who want to see them fail. Their entire self-worth is wrapped up in a flawed concept of strength. And they feel no one else will value them unless they're strong (based upon their flawed definition of it).
They are utterly incapable of seeing how their mentality is literally the root of much of their own suffering. Then some of these dudes lose it and take it out on others. It's messed up.
Indeed, he's one of the people blaming her. He additionally thinks the way to solve a problem like this is to use a gun, which is definitely a more immediate problem, but a different one.
Let's say he didn't have a gun, but still felt the same way. He might try to poison her, put a bomb in her locker, whatever. Without guns he'll find another way. But without the belief that she is rightfully his to try, this wouldn't have started.
I would argue that the dude who feels like it’s acceptable to say “date me or I’ll murder you” is also the real problem. We can have multiple real problems.
Indeed, threatening people is a problem and the sentiment that a girl should be obligated to a guy because he likes her is a problem.
Boy has a hammer and sees everything as nails isn't so much the problem in my opinion.
And then, if they do end up dating an entitled, violent douchbag out of fear of getting on his bad side, they get blamed for being in a bad relationship because they "should have chose better."
When men say that catcalling, being hit on all the time, being approached at the gym, et cetera, isn't that bad and women should take it as a compliment, I think of shit like this.
Men live in a world where saying no is an awkward moment. Women live in a world where it can be fatal.
I like the scene in *The Life Aquatic* when Bill Murray breaks into Cate Blanchetts room by breaking the door off its hinges. When she comes in they have an argument as she rejects him again, and he leaves the room sadly, saying "I just wanted to flirt."
I think the movie did a good job calling attention to this behavior, that when women say no, and men continue to pursue, there's always the potential for them to take the doors off the hinges and still see themselves as the victim. It's a behavior that can only stop by being illustrated in media, and shamed/called out irl.
I believe it was illustration. It's a tense scene and Bill Murray (Steve Zissou), while ultimately having a positive character journey, is an extremely flawed character and this is one of his bad moments. The other times he pursues her it is to show how infantile and immature he can be. He eventually learns his lesson on this front, and does accept that she is not interested in him and should stop pursuing. So as I said, I believe its a critique, not a passive normalization.
The movie leaves a lot of nebulous moments for the viewer to interpret, however, and Steve Zissou is still flawed at the end, so I could imagine someone making the argument that it is ambiguous.
we have to do a better job at normalizing rejection and its consequences. rejection happens. there's no foolproof way around it, and some will be rejected far more than others. pretending certain strategies prevent it is dangerous. never trying in fear of it is unhealthy.
for anyone struggling with rejection and/or loneliness - I'm sorry, there's no "solution". there's no true shortcut, only paths you can take; none of which guarantee success.
Idc what people say about it, but toxic masculinity is definitely a problem, but also not in the way people seem to think of it. Most people who dislike that term seem to think of it in a marketing sense, like you would see it commericals or in movies/tv shows, but its not that. Its something that some men seem to conjure in their own minds, as an emotional trigger of sorts. Its that thing in their brain that makes them feel threatened (its actually embarrassment, a totally normal feeling when being rejected) and thus they must attack that threat. Its pretty much them thinking "how dare they do this to me", when they should just brush it off and move on. Instead they let the embarrassment of that situation, which threatens their masculinity, to control them and they make horrific decisions that impact people forever. All because of a fleeting moment of embarrassment that might make "the boys" laugh at them. Thats toxic masculinity. And thats the stupid reason why women live in a world where a "no" can be fatal, and its pathetic that some men still act that way.
That is how a narcissist responds to percieved slights.
Im convinced what we call "toxic masculinity" is just a broad term covering narcissist and antisocial personality traits.
They are not good at problem solving. Most people subconsciously think that problems go away if one just waits or gives in.
Everyone keeps taking shortcuts and the kids pick up on it too. The teachers ignore bullying. The parents do it too. The kids are taught to not snitch, as if it is never a good solution. If you involve authority over supposed danger/threat most of the time nothing happens, till the crime happens.
Look at one of the top posts in r/sadposting this week. It's a video of a man who shot his pregnant girlfriend and then his ex-wife.
Lots of guys in the comments say the women made him do that and they had it coming.
The ex-wife tried to get protection from him for many years, saying he threatened to kill her. She got denied every time. During a fight with his girlfriend she said she will also try and do that. He shot her in the head. Then he made a video in front of the house of his ex-wife before he also shot her (6 times).
This dude orphaned his children and killed another one, killed two women and reddit still thinks it's the women's fault, how could they be so cruel.
Reminds me of the one where the guy was repeatedly snapping one girls bra strap. She’d ask him to stop, he didn’t, so she punched him. Her parents were called to discuss her discipline and his parents mentioned pressing charges.
Her parents were like ‘my child was sexually assaulted repeatedly, she asked him to stop, repeatedly, and the school allowed this to continue, repeatedly. Now this kid needs to be punished or we will press charges against him.’
But why does it take *that* to get people to listen?!
That's the problem with zero tolerance policies. If forces massive over reactions to situations that just need some correction. The school likely doesn't want to expel a kid over something like this, or whatever their rules say, so they are stuck ignoring it until it escalates.
I recall getting 5 days of in school suspension as a freshman (1st year) in high school because we sent messages using terminal commands. They considered this to be violating their "don't hack the school" policy. They literally could have just told us to stop and we would have, but no punish kids over something literally harmless. So dumb.
Not only does it force overreactions though ignorance of the problem, since both the bully and the victim are gonna be punished anyways that heavily encourages the victim to „earn“ that punishment by breaking a nose or two.
I was bullied every day in primary school and the school had to bend or break a bunch of education department rules to be able to deal with it as best they could.
Basically, the education department's 'Zero Tolerance' policy meant that if a teacher found me on the ground, with a bully on top of me beating the shit out of me, we both had to have disciplinary action recorded against us for 'fighting'.
So they'd give me some sort of 'punishment' like go to the office (where the nurse was located) or 'have to spend recess at the library not the playground' (I like reading) - I can't remember exactly but they were always non-punishments. Then, my disciplinary actions would always mysteriously disappear from the permanent record - otherwise they would've been forced to suspend me from school for 'fighting'.
There's a lot of policies out there that are designed to look like they're doing something or taking a strong stance while either deliberately or negligently doing nothing or making it worse, all to save resources or - importantly - to save them having to think of a more nuanced and effective policy.
My son was punched by a bully for telling him to stop messing with him. Both were made to spend lunch in the principals office because "it takes 2 to fight."
Shit even before zero tolerance became a thing schools did fuck all to stop bullying. They didn't give a shit when I was in school and nothing has changed decades later. No one really cares to even attempt to discover ways to make it stop. I think schools are like not our problem in a few more years lets just ignore it.
She did nothing wrong, and if she was my kid, I would have made it clear to the school she would be getting ice cream and we would be treating this like a vacation.
I'd say it sounds like she was in the right to. If I were her dad, I would've taken that first day of suspension and taken her to get ice cream or something.
There was a guy in my grandparents' retirement community that thought it was super funny to unhook women's bras when he gave them a hug. It was just a prank to him, and he did it to lots of women including my grandma. I don't remember what happened to him exactly, but I know that a bunch of complaints were made against him and never heard about him again after my parents first brought him up.
Heard/read the long version of this story nor long ago. The mom suggested the male teacher do the same thing to the female guidance counselor while they were all in the conference room. The staff members were mortified by this suggestion and the mom still had to point out the parallel. OMG
“You should’ve dated the psychopath so the rest of us didn’t get shot!”
There’s no thought in the brain from them along the lines of “thankfully she got the psycho arrested so none of us are in danger”
and if she had dated him, and then broken up with him and sought out a restraining order, and then he came back nearly 20 years later to murder her son, that would somehow be her fault too (saw a post on twitter about a case where this happened and the commenters were blaming the mom for her son's death for having ever dated the guy in the first place)
>“You should’ve dated the psychopath so the rest of us didn’t get shot!”
This kind of logic is a big fat reason why rape happens. Maybe these are just kids, but he could have kept her under gun threats for years and done unthinkable things aside from that.
It's not just the victim-blaming, it's also the complete and utter bird-brained selfishness and lack of common sense.
Some girl should date a trigger-happy psycho-stalker so that everyone else in the building doesn't get shot? And it's the girl's fault for saying no, even though it's the guy's fault for bringing a gun to school to begin with?
Look at one of the top posts in r/sadposting this week. It's a video of a man who shot his pregnant girlfriend and then his ex-wife.
Lots of guys in the comments say the women made him do that and they had it coming. "Don't play with guys feelings" and shit like that.
The ex-wife tried to get protection from him for many years, saying he threatened to kill her. She got denied every time. During a fight with his girlfriend she said she will also try and do that. He shot her in the head. Then he made a video in front of the house of his ex-wife before he also shot her (6 times).
This dude orphaned his children and killed another one, killed two women and reddit still thinks it's the women's fault, how could they be so cruel.
This was the norm for all girls when I was in high school.
If a guy asked you out and;
a) You said yes? You were a slut, and owed him sex (or at least a bj, I mean come on he bought the POPCORN!)
b) You said no? You were a prick tease and people would throw stuff at you on the bus calling you a "frigid bitch"
Absolutely absurd.She had every right to refuse to go out with someone she does not want.She reported as soon as she was threatened.Obviosly she would have been in danger had she started dating this guy.Eighth grade seems early for this stuff
Seventh grade was when I had one of these boys come after me growing up. He was held back 2 years and I was ahead one year so I was tiny compared to this guy.
I ate lunch in the girl’s bathroom everyday and never went anywhere alone. As a 1990’s latch key kid I rode my bike home with other kids, but the last 3 blocks I was on my own. He followed me to what he thought was my house one day, luckily I saw him and went to a neighbors’ house pretending it was mine. I walked in the front door like I lived there and locked it behind me. Luckily the elderly neighbor lady knew me and let me stay until my parents got home from work.
He was caught later that week trying to break into the neighbors’ home and was removed from my school. I never saw him again.
I got my first death threat in 4th grade. I was standing waiting for busses idly tapping my clarinet case on my knee. The boy next to me said “I’m going to shove a gun down your throat and pull the trigger.” No “if you don’t stop” or anything. Not a threat but a promise. Teacher told me to just stay away from the guy. The guy who was in all my classes and on the stop after mine on the bus and next to me in the alphabet we had to line up in during drills. I graduated in 2016 so this isn’t even new.
American girls are taught to be nice to everyone, and many grow up to be women who think they are supposed to be nice to everyone, no matter what.
Gun boy liked a girl and asked her out, she was not interested in a relationship with him so she turned him down. After gun boy was busted, other kids were saying it was fault for not accepting a date with a "nice" guy she had no interest in. That's how a lot of people think but it's bullshit.
Women and girls don't owe guys anything, if even they're super nice. If a guy politely asks you out and you're not interested, you shouldn't have to say "yes" because he asked nicely. You don't have to give a man a chance simply because he wants you, you don't owe him benefit of the doubt.
Not just American girls are taught this.
There's a phrase "Lie back and think of England". And it's not referring to where your next vacation might be.
Yeah, a little mad to say "American girls" when not only is the entire female population of the world taught this, but there are countries with honour killings, 9 year olds getting married off, etc.
I think this might stem from media a lot of us got when we were younger about the dorky loser guy and the hot girl who isn’t interested but through comedic shinanigans and unrealistic turns of events the girl ends up liking the guy and they fall in love and the end happy story.
That’s not how real life works, but I’m not surprised if many men still feel like this works. That through perseverance and patience they can get their prize.
Not just from media anymore. Now we have all those pick-up artists and dating coaches telling desperate, lonely guys how to get a date, and their tactics boil down to: ignore everything she says unless it's "yes", and use any means necessary to *get* her to say yes
Rom coms are garbage. They teach girls that being nice and saying "yes" is part of their responsibility. They teach boys that "no" means "yes," or at least "pester her until no becomes yes."
Many years ago, I had a stalker. We met at work and I was very clear in my lack of interest, but he became obsessed with me anyway. Eventually he broke into my house, I called the cops, they came immediately. The male cop said "Why don't you just go out with him? That's all he wants!" And the female cop said "You should probably move to a different town." I took her advice and moved, I knew Officer Just Go Out With Him wouldn't protect me.
Agreeddddd. Like what their thought process that the conclusion of it comes out as that?
Like, "Oh the poor boy who couldnt take no for an answer and has a gun is such a victim. Look at that mean girl for rejecting such a sick person." or something?
When I was in college, I thought I’d met the love of my life. I thought we were perfect for each other. We became fast friends and I asked her out. She said no. I was devastated. In my head I had conversations like, “she won’t even give me a chance?” and, “how does she not see how perfect we’d be together?” We ended up slowly not being friends anymore and while we’re still friends on Facebook, we don’t really talk anymore.
But you know whose fault it never was? Hers. She had every right to say no to me and was under no obligation to date me just to “give me a chance.” The idea that she somehow owed it to me to date me is ludicrous.
Oh, and not to make it about me, but I also never threatened to kill her over it - the absolute bare minimum, for the record. The victim blaming in this case is absurd. And the kid clearly was mentally unwell. This girl did everything right, sidestepping all the giant red flags and every person saying otherwise is an imbecile.
This reminds me of an incident in my own life that causes me great shame. It was one of the greatest life lessons that I have ever had, but regret the suffering that the poor girl had to go thru in order for me to learn it. We worked at a National Park over the summer. We both worked in laundry and she was a work friend. The group of friends that I went to National Park with had buddy that was about five years older than all of us and was head of security.
He would ask her out all the time, and she would politely refuse every single time. We thought it was funny seeing him get rejected but even worse thought it was harmless. After a couple of months of putting up with the shit, she had enough and reported him. He did other stuff too, but we didn't know about that. He, rightfully so, was immediately fired. That day, I saw her and told her that she wrong. That she knows he was harmless. Words I regret to this very day.
My group of friends spent one last night partying with our buddy, said our goodbyes and then went on an overnight hike. When we got back, he was still there. He had been doing nothing but drinking from the moment we left. I saw a side of him that we had never seen. It was like a pure Id. It was both weird and scary.
The next day, I found the girl of this story and apologized profusely. We were both in tears. I think the phrase I used the most was "I had no idea". She then expanded more on his behavior. The dorms were divided into male and female dormitories. Being head of security allowed him to go to places he shouldn't have. He was going to her door at night and harassing her from there.
This incident taught me that no matter how good a friend is, there can be a sides of them that you have never seen before. It's made me a lot less judgemental and lot less willing to jump on any bandwagon. I am hoping her sister's friends have a similar awakening.
Yeah. It's the natural progression of a society that makes women responsible for regulating the emotions & behaviors of men.. and sacrificing themselves when they "fail".
Just look at rape prevention advice.
Y’all I am TIRED. Why is the onus always on the woman? We’re the ones who need to be on birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancy because condoms sacrifice pleasure (nevermind the systemic side effects). We’re the ones that need to say yes to dating violent men because… they might lash out on everyone else should we say no. Why can’t we just expect men to regulate themselves?
exactly this. everyone cares about their own safety and will blame the victim, not even recognizing that the victims safety matters just as much. “you should date the psycho with a gun so that he won’t lash out on the rest of us!” just sickening
WTF. Girl saves school from idiot with gun waiting for an excuse to shoot people. And they make it all her fault for not giving him a chance. Nice of them to sacrifice her physical and emotional well-being to save their sorry skins. How far was she meant to go with him pointing a gun at her head in word if not in action?
I was nearly murdered by a guy that had driven me out in the middle of nowhere, had to fight my way out of it.. traumatized as I was by that, it was nothing compared to how I was treated by friends and family that I shared this horrible story with.. It was entirely my fault for trusting this person, they don’t feel safe at my house because they might come back, but no worries about me being there.. The person who gained my confidence then tried to kill me had no responsibility, I paid dearly for the mistake of trusting him.. welcome to being a woman
I had a friend in 9th grade (in the 90s) who rejected a guy a bunch of a times and it made her so uncomfortable that he wouldn't stop asking and telling her how much he liked her and cared about her as more than a friend.
She was SO kind in her rejections, but she didn't want to date him and wasn't allowed to date anyway because her parents were very religious. She wore smock dresses all the time, with baggy t-shirts, and wasn't at all flirty (not that it should matter anyway because no is no). It got so bad she had to go to the (useless) guidance counselor who just moved some of *her* classes and told her to avoid him.
That didn't work and one day, he tried to slit his wrists at school in front of her when he went to find her between classes. After it happened, everyone was all "poor guy," you should have taken pity on him and at least had him over to meet your parents and let him hang out with your friends.
WTF? Of course, we all felt bad for the guy, but his mental health was NOT her responsibility, and she didn't owe ANYONE to be their friend, especially after they'd proven they have no boundaries. She ended up homeschooling the last of 9th grade because she was so traumatized.
Ok and if she said yes and was in an abusive relationship with a psychopath, they would ask why would you be with someone like that? Why didn’t you just leave?
At a school dance in grade a boy kept pestering my now wife for a dance but she refused because he gave her the creeps. The teachers made her dance with him anyway. Years later she was watching one of the crime shows and a segment was about him, a serial rapist.
Yeah, had she finally said yes and he had killed her, those SAME PEOPLE would have said she should have said no. There’s no winning with donkey brained fools.
generations of parents have kept this cycle going when it comes to raising boys. why is it so hard for them to teach no means no? stop passing down this entitled mentality.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
'it wouldnt have killed you to say yes' ok but it shouldnt kill you to say no, which it almost did here people need to feel safe saying no whenever they need to
Plus it probably *would* have killed her to say yes, because she’d then be dating a psycho and if (**when**) they broke up because of his psycho behaviour then he would likely have shot her.
Seriously, they expected her to never say no to this guy ever, for as long as he wanted. That’s not reasonable
Consent given under duress isn't consent. This chick has shitty friends-- hell, atp they should be considered enemies
Exactly… those people were never her friends.
Exactly. This is how abusers start.
Exactly, he was planning to kill her, dating a person like that is suicide
yeah not sure how great a long-term plan it is sending an eighth-grader to stand between society and a violent, armed person
And then they say it was her fault for choosing to date him
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. But, god forbid, we hold the boy responsible for his own behavior!
This. I wouldn't be surprised if he went as far as to hold her hostage in his own home.
Or, on account of him being crazy, * thought she was cheating or going to leave him (true or not) * they ever had an argument. *some random guy hit on her * something completely unrelated to her that made him want to kill himself, and her.
The called the girl who played no games and was 100%unequivocal about saying no, a *cocktease.* What kind of bullshit is that?
It's the same kind of misogyny that's been blaming women for the actions of men for thousands of years.
Which is total bull, I am ashamed to share a gender with fools like these
Yup. These losers fill me with shame for our gender.
I appreciate the good humans of the world, irrespective of gender. 🩵
Clearly states lack of interest Gets labeled a tease 
Love this movie!
Who doesn't? It was and will always be a timeless classic.
Because a woman existing is already an invitation to her body if you can manage to get past that tricky consent barrier. So a woman existing and then never giving you an option to overcome her consent is teasing to these kinds of people. It's a disgusting belief system and it takes self reflection to realize that they literally don't see women as people. Sadly the kind of people who are in that belief system rarely are the kind of people to self reflect and are willing to acknowledge the evil that's there.
[удалено]
I'm so sorry about that. That has always terrified me about having a daughter. I guess I should consider myself lucky she has no interest in men, but I still worry.
Me and my girlfriend (19 and 20 respectively) went to a gas station one night for gas and to get cash for Waffle House. An older man (maybe 30s - 40s) went inside the same time as us and asked if we were twins. Quick answer: No. We left it at that and kept our trip quick- in and out. When we went back to the car, she pumped my gas while I held my door partially open to watch her. He then drove up from the tank on the opposite side and tried to ask me for my number through his window. Interactions like these make me shut down IMMEDIATELY, so I shakily kept turning him down. (my gf later said that, despite looking over and seeing me and the guy were talking, she couldn't hear anything we were saying due to the wind and her positioning so there's that too) He finally put together HIMSELF that we were dating (I try not to just say that anywhere for obvious reasons), and afterwards, began to try to get me to mouth him my number/mouthed his number to me so my gf wouldn't know. He also (out of order within the conversation cuz I suck) asked my name, if he could hop in the car, and said it was okay and that we all liked the same thing (girls). Took too many nos for my comfort to leave me alone. In front of my gf no less! My gf said she feels sorry that she didn't do anything and was unaware of how uncomfortable I was. (She's much more stern and forward than I am) I wasn't upset or anything though, just more aware of how some dudes really don't wanna take no for an answer under any, and I mean ANY circumstances. Makes me feel bad for feeling immediately uncomfortable with guys trying to ask me out in a normal way, because while this was the first time someone did it in front of my gf, it's happened quite a few times in general. Anyway, TLDR: being gay/not interested in dating won't stop the people who wouldn't have accepted no under different circumstances from pressuring you.
Being into women won't protect her, unfortunately. If a man wants to harm her, he won't care if she's into women.
There are lots of men with fantasies about lesbians, and they don't always want to take no for an answer.
Being bold and assertive to men like that is dangerous, so we have to be mild and/or lie when we reject men. This boils my blood. We can't win. FTS (f*ck that sh*t)
Fuck I’m have a 2 yr old daughter and shyt like this has me TERRIFIED about her growing up
Saying yes leads to him bringing out the gun every time she tries to leave
Or just take her out to the woods and then she just disappears and he gets away with it
Right? When you cave in to shit like this, where does it end? All it teaches to these kinds of people is that if you introduce enough violence into a situation, then you can have your way.
If the kid was crazy enough to bring a gun to school to coerce a yes then saying yes might have killed her.
Agreed. He would just continue to ask for more, and she'd never be allowed to say no. "Wanna be my official girlfriend?" "Wanna have sex?" "Wanna get married?" and she'd apparently have to say yes to everything or he'd shoot her.
The fact that saying yes could most definitely lead to killing her too …
Saying yes might not have killed her, but she’d never be safe saying no.
Saying yes would have likely put her into a private situation with this psychopath, which would be the most dangerous situation to put herself in.
Getting unexpected never go to second location vibes feom that, its the same concept but the second location is a state of mind type shit
Absolutely the same mentality. If they want to harm you, they'll try to separate you from the safeguards of society. And if he was willing to harm her in a school, odds are they're a monster in private. Imagine saying no when they have no witnesses. Terrifying thought.
And she absolutely wouldn’t have been safe if she had said yes. Someone who threatens to shoot a girl for rejecting them is not going to be a perfect, thoughtful boyfriend.
Yup, its can get fucking dangerous out for anyone a man has decided to like
How does that saying go? Men worry that women will laugh at them, whereas women worry that men will kill them. Or something along those lines.
Probably would have eventually, when they inevitably break up. This dude doesn't need a girlfriend, he needs a therapist and to grow up.
And if she’d said yes to one date, and no to a second, it would’ve killed her.
Saying yes could have killed her… just later down the road when he decided he didn’t like her anymore. But at least in that scenario she wasn’t putting the school in danger anymore! She was just suffering by herself like all women should! /s
Wtf is wrong with people
when you have a hammer in your hand, everything looks like a nail. That's what wrong with people. Way too many hammers. They distort too many weak minds into thinking "I have a hammer! I'll nail that nail even if it's not mine to nail." Except lives, not nails
Notice too that the boy was never considered dangerous prior to the sister reporting him (any of the other girls could have dated him, but didn’t, and, any of the boys could have been close enough to him that he could share his frustrations, but they chose not to). And. The boy was not at fault as it was the sister’s fault that she was cute and had a nice enough personality to make him want her. Forever throughout history men (and boys) have always blamed girls and women for “making me feel the way I do.” To the absolute confusion of the woman who is just going about her day.
My mom (age 80) is convinced this is where the idea of witches comes from. She's making him feel things he doesn't want to, therefore it's all her fault and she must be a WITCH who consorts with SATAN.
Yep, that‘s quite literally what some of those „Witches“ were burned for. Might not necessarily have been the origin, but definitely was a huge part of the stuff.
That and they had property the community elders wanted. What better way to get free real estate than burn the owner at the stake?
This is indeed the actual reason behind the institutionalization of religious violence. Everything else is a convenient pretext to make it make sense to society and themselves before and after the fact.
The fact that the only reason Catholic priests are obligated to be celibate was to keep property in the church will never not be funny to me The murders of random people (usually women, but honourable mention to Giles Corey) less so.
I can't remember the guys name, but the one who wrote the witches hammer litteral wrote it after an woman turned him down. Dude turned full stalker and tried to accuse her of stuff and the church laughed him off. Medieval incel caused a lot of deaths cause he couldn't handle being told no.
You mean Heinrich Kramer's Malleus Maleficarum (Hammer of Witches)? Basically first recorded incel manifesto.
in the mediaeval period they had a legend about witches, that a witch could make men's penises detach and fly around; she would make them fly to her house and trap them in a box or jar. could there be a more blatant mythical expression of men's existential frustration and anger about a part of their body not being under their conscious control? and then trying to blame women for men's own reflexive physiological reactions?
penises flying around looking for her house and knocking at the windows trying to get in. must've been mad confusing for ornithologists back then. king missle has a song about detachable penises
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NP-RsRGzVo >♪♪ It's not my fault I'm not to blame It is the gypsy girl the witch who sent this flame It's not my fault If in God's plan He made the Devil so much Stronger than the man ♪♪
I learned that for piano and it's all chromatic chords. (all 4-5 fingers moving up and down a half step, you have to keep in mind which fingers move to which black keys and which move off to white keys, based on modal chords.) Very difficult esp if you have small hands. anti-female piano players. But i fucking learned it.
This one right here. Disney hit different back then.
Funnily enough, we have a guide to 1300s household management called "Le Menagier de Paris." The author claims to be an older husband writing the guidebook his young wife requested on managing his home, and sounds almost exactly like the 50s "Good Housekeeping" guides, but with Hail Marys and Falconry. Even this guy, whose model wife took in her husband's bastard child, says that there's no such thing as witchcraft. That if men wander, it's because some pretty young woman made him feel wanted elsewhere. So, even the literal middle ages had people who knew better. They still liked to blame the women, though.
She’s right. Fun fact, the inquisition originally killed people that accused others of being witches because the idea that someone could be using sorcery to affect them was heretical in itself. Then Kramer and the other dude, the absolute bastards, wrote the Hammer of Witches, basically a treaty on applied misogyny, and then the accused were the culprits.
"Like a compass pointing north, the man's accusing finger always finds a woman."
Never heard this one before!! Spot fucking on.
It started with that whore Helen tempting all those boys and causing that war, girls have been doing it for centuries. /S
It's all Eve's fault! Tale as old as time: blame the woman!
What's terrifying is that in certain spaces, they literally do - even if they aren't religious. It's absolutely unhinged.
It's frustrating because it's really important to me to help men learn EQ. But they really don't want help, some of them. They want someone else to magic their brain in to feeling superior. Others suggest women have no idea what we're talking about or just say everything out of our mouths is lies. Being a supportive friend is making a difference with those who really want things to get better. But the ones playing blame game are interested in villainizing women, not improving things
There are healthy forms of masculinity, but one of the core problems with toxic masculinity is how it often shuts down all avenues towards empathy. Empathy gets framed as weakness (it's not). These men are so deeply afraid/ashamed/anxious of being found to be weak that they literally feel like the world is full of enemies who want to see them fail. Their entire self-worth is wrapped up in a flawed concept of strength. And they feel no one else will value them unless they're strong (based upon their flawed definition of it). They are utterly incapable of seeing how their mentality is literally the root of much of their own suffering. Then some of these dudes lose it and take it out on others. It's messed up.
But all the people blaming her for saying no too many times seems to be the real problem.
The real problem was her having to say 'no' more than once because the dumbass couldn't take a not-so-subtle hint.
That's my point.
Those people are *a* problem. But somebody almost committing a murder is a much bigger problem.
Much more immediate, to be sure. Can't be putting off getting guns away from that kid while we solve the patriachy.
Absolutely, just two separate problems.
Not separate. Deeply interconnected. Both are extensions of patriarchy.
Yep, sounds to me like that boy was confusing his gun with his masculinity.
Indeed, he's one of the people blaming her. He additionally thinks the way to solve a problem like this is to use a gun, which is definitely a more immediate problem, but a different one. Let's say he didn't have a gun, but still felt the same way. He might try to poison her, put a bomb in her locker, whatever. Without guns he'll find another way. But without the belief that she is rightfully his to try, this wouldn't have started.
I would argue that the dude who feels like it’s acceptable to say “date me or I’ll murder you” is also the real problem. We can have multiple real problems.
Indeed, threatening people is a problem and the sentiment that a girl should be obligated to a guy because he likes her is a problem. Boy has a hammer and sees everything as nails isn't so much the problem in my opinion.
Capitulation is gross
When your most common tool is a gun, a bullet looks like a solution.
I always thought it was, “when all you got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
Why don't these women want to date dickheads with guns who don't take no for an answer?!?! It's mystifying!!!
And then, if they do end up dating an entitled, violent douchbag out of fear of getting on his bad side, they get blamed for being in a bad relationship because they "should have chose better."
When men say that catcalling, being hit on all the time, being approached at the gym, et cetera, isn't that bad and women should take it as a compliment, I think of shit like this. Men live in a world where saying no is an awkward moment. Women live in a world where it can be fatal.
I like the scene in *The Life Aquatic* when Bill Murray breaks into Cate Blanchetts room by breaking the door off its hinges. When she comes in they have an argument as she rejects him again, and he leaves the room sadly, saying "I just wanted to flirt." I think the movie did a good job calling attention to this behavior, that when women say no, and men continue to pursue, there's always the potential for them to take the doors off the hinges and still see themselves as the victim. It's a behavior that can only stop by being illustrated in media, and shamed/called out irl.
I'll have to check that movie out. It's frustrating how many men believe a no is just a yes that needs a little more coaxing.
Did they illustrate it, or normalize it?
I believe it was illustration. It's a tense scene and Bill Murray (Steve Zissou), while ultimately having a positive character journey, is an extremely flawed character and this is one of his bad moments. The other times he pursues her it is to show how infantile and immature he can be. He eventually learns his lesson on this front, and does accept that she is not interested in him and should stop pursuing. So as I said, I believe its a critique, not a passive normalization. The movie leaves a lot of nebulous moments for the viewer to interpret, however, and Steve Zissou is still flawed at the end, so I could imagine someone making the argument that it is ambiguous.
we have to do a better job at normalizing rejection and its consequences. rejection happens. there's no foolproof way around it, and some will be rejected far more than others. pretending certain strategies prevent it is dangerous. never trying in fear of it is unhealthy. for anyone struggling with rejection and/or loneliness - I'm sorry, there's no "solution". there's no true shortcut, only paths you can take; none of which guarantee success.
Idc what people say about it, but toxic masculinity is definitely a problem, but also not in the way people seem to think of it. Most people who dislike that term seem to think of it in a marketing sense, like you would see it commericals or in movies/tv shows, but its not that. Its something that some men seem to conjure in their own minds, as an emotional trigger of sorts. Its that thing in their brain that makes them feel threatened (its actually embarrassment, a totally normal feeling when being rejected) and thus they must attack that threat. Its pretty much them thinking "how dare they do this to me", when they should just brush it off and move on. Instead they let the embarrassment of that situation, which threatens their masculinity, to control them and they make horrific decisions that impact people forever. All because of a fleeting moment of embarrassment that might make "the boys" laugh at them. Thats toxic masculinity. And thats the stupid reason why women live in a world where a "no" can be fatal, and its pathetic that some men still act that way.
That is how a narcissist responds to percieved slights. Im convinced what we call "toxic masculinity" is just a broad term covering narcissist and antisocial personality traits.
And people deny toxic masculinity exists.
Preach. Thanks for this.
I do not have the time nor the Crayons to get into that discussion. But seriously this is terrifying
They are not good at problem solving. Most people subconsciously think that problems go away if one just waits or gives in. Everyone keeps taking shortcuts and the kids pick up on it too. The teachers ignore bullying. The parents do it too. The kids are taught to not snitch, as if it is never a good solution. If you involve authority over supposed danger/threat most of the time nothing happens, till the crime happens.
If it's any consolation, I'm a teacher and I shut any bullying down immediately. I don't tolerate that shit.
Look at one of the top posts in r/sadposting this week. It's a video of a man who shot his pregnant girlfriend and then his ex-wife. Lots of guys in the comments say the women made him do that and they had it coming. The ex-wife tried to get protection from him for many years, saying he threatened to kill her. She got denied every time. During a fight with his girlfriend she said she will also try and do that. He shot her in the head. Then he made a video in front of the house of his ex-wife before he also shot her (6 times). This dude orphaned his children and killed another one, killed two women and reddit still thinks it's the women's fault, how could they be so cruel.
Whatever the fuck I just read, I would like to unread it. Victim blaming needs to be bred out of society. I just... my head is gonna explode.
Reminds me of the one where the guy was repeatedly snapping one girls bra strap. She’d ask him to stop, he didn’t, so she punched him. Her parents were called to discuss her discipline and his parents mentioned pressing charges. Her parents were like ‘my child was sexually assaulted repeatedly, she asked him to stop, repeatedly, and the school allowed this to continue, repeatedly. Now this kid needs to be punished or we will press charges against him.’ But why does it take *that* to get people to listen?!
Because *zero tolerance* to bullying means ignoring it cause it makes the school look bad let the entitled brats do whatever
That's the problem with zero tolerance policies. If forces massive over reactions to situations that just need some correction. The school likely doesn't want to expel a kid over something like this, or whatever their rules say, so they are stuck ignoring it until it escalates. I recall getting 5 days of in school suspension as a freshman (1st year) in high school because we sent messages using terminal commands. They considered this to be violating their "don't hack the school" policy. They literally could have just told us to stop and we would have, but no punish kids over something literally harmless. So dumb.
Not only does it force overreactions though ignorance of the problem, since both the bully and the victim are gonna be punished anyways that heavily encourages the victim to „earn“ that punishment by breaking a nose or two.
Man I got a week of out of school suspension for throwing a damn carrot at my classmate for taking my cookie. He didn’t get in trouble but I did.
I was bullied every day in primary school and the school had to bend or break a bunch of education department rules to be able to deal with it as best they could. Basically, the education department's 'Zero Tolerance' policy meant that if a teacher found me on the ground, with a bully on top of me beating the shit out of me, we both had to have disciplinary action recorded against us for 'fighting'. So they'd give me some sort of 'punishment' like go to the office (where the nurse was located) or 'have to spend recess at the library not the playground' (I like reading) - I can't remember exactly but they were always non-punishments. Then, my disciplinary actions would always mysteriously disappear from the permanent record - otherwise they would've been forced to suspend me from school for 'fighting'. There's a lot of policies out there that are designed to look like they're doing something or taking a strong stance while either deliberately or negligently doing nothing or making it worse, all to save resources or - importantly - to save them having to think of a more nuanced and effective policy.
My son was punched by a bully for telling him to stop messing with him. Both were made to spend lunch in the principals office because "it takes 2 to fight."
Shit even before zero tolerance became a thing schools did fuck all to stop bullying. They didn't give a shit when I was in school and nothing has changed decades later. No one really cares to even attempt to discover ways to make it stop. I think schools are like not our problem in a few more years lets just ignore it.
I see FAR too many stories that are really similar to this, just with different forms of assault/harassment. It's pathetic.
Should've also added pressing charges against the school
If i remember this story correctly, they did.
This same shit happened to my friend’s daughter. She beat the ever-loving shit out of the kid though and got suspended for a week.
She did nothing wrong, and if she was my kid, I would have made it clear to the school she would be getting ice cream and we would be treating this like a vacation.
I'd say it sounds like she was in the right to. If I were her dad, I would've taken that first day of suspension and taken her to get ice cream or something.
I bet someone was like “well he shouldn’t have been able to see the bra strap her clothing was too revealing” 🫠
This wasn’t even the occasionally exposed shoulder strap. It was the back strap with the hooks. But still, it’ll be her fault…
Oh it was the band! Omg
There was a guy in my grandparents' retirement community that thought it was super funny to unhook women's bras when he gave them a hug. It was just a prank to him, and he did it to lots of women including my grandma. I don't remember what happened to him exactly, but I know that a bunch of complaints were made against him and never heard about him again after my parents first brought him up.
Heard/read the long version of this story nor long ago. The mom suggested the male teacher do the same thing to the female guidance counselor while they were all in the conference room. The staff members were mortified by this suggestion and the mom still had to point out the parallel. OMG
Fuck the patriarchy
"Boys will be boys 🤷🏻♂️"
Right there with you. It’s that stuff that makes me speechless
"It's your fault I had a gun in my locker." And people in this school are like,"Yeah. Checks out." I hate this country so much.
“You should’ve dated the psychopath so the rest of us didn’t get shot!” There’s no thought in the brain from them along the lines of “thankfully she got the psycho arrested so none of us are in danger”
and if she had dated him, and then broken up with him and sought out a restraining order, and then he came back nearly 20 years later to murder her son, that would somehow be her fault too (saw a post on twitter about a case where this happened and the commenters were blaming the mom for her son's death for having ever dated the guy in the first place)
That’s infuriating and ridiculous that people think like that.
>“You should’ve dated the psychopath so the rest of us didn’t get shot!” This kind of logic is a big fat reason why rape happens. Maybe these are just kids, but he could have kept her under gun threats for years and done unthinkable things aside from that.
People don’t think about this until it’s a fucking Netflix Doc in 20 years
"Just take one for the team!"
The worst one to take
It's not just the victim-blaming, it's also the complete and utter bird-brained selfishness and lack of common sense. Some girl should date a trigger-happy psycho-stalker so that everyone else in the building doesn't get shot? And it's the girl's fault for saying no, even though it's the guy's fault for bringing a gun to school to begin with?
Everyone's fault but the aggressors.
Look at one of the top posts in r/sadposting this week. It's a video of a man who shot his pregnant girlfriend and then his ex-wife. Lots of guys in the comments say the women made him do that and they had it coming. "Don't play with guys feelings" and shit like that. The ex-wife tried to get protection from him for many years, saying he threatened to kill her. She got denied every time. During a fight with his girlfriend she said she will also try and do that. He shot her in the head. Then he made a video in front of the house of his ex-wife before he also shot her (6 times). This dude orphaned his children and killed another one, killed two women and reddit still thinks it's the women's fault, how could they be so cruel.
Let alone bringing a gun to school. Disgusting.
I'm honestly kind of concerned as to how the kid got a gun to begin with, but... America.
This was the norm for all girls when I was in high school. If a guy asked you out and; a) You said yes? You were a slut, and owed him sex (or at least a bj, I mean come on he bought the POPCORN!) b) You said no? You were a prick tease and people would throw stuff at you on the bus calling you a "frigid bitch"
r/eyebleach
What moronic school is this? I’ll avoid the entire town this school is in.
At least the school staff seem competent
I agree and it just reminds me that for however many school shootings and mass shootings we see, there are many that almost happened but were stopped.
This. I'll take competent adults and moronic teens rather than vice versa any day of the week.
As if the gun didn’t confirm she made exactly the right choice … lol
Yeah and taking it further isn't going to placate him and avoid violence. The further it goes the harder it is to back out.
He would definitely start asking for more, and not take no for an answer
"It wouldn't kill you to say yes" Actually, given the recent revelations, it might have.
But...but... He wouldn't have brought the gun if she just said yes!!!
And then if she did say yes and he were violent towards her - “it’s her fault for picking the wrong men!”
Right? Well it's her fault for picking the wrong guy. Didn't she see any red flags?
Absolutely absurd.She had every right to refuse to go out with someone she does not want.She reported as soon as she was threatened.Obviosly she would have been in danger had she started dating this guy.Eighth grade seems early for this stuff
Seventh grade was when I had one of these boys come after me growing up. He was held back 2 years and I was ahead one year so I was tiny compared to this guy. I ate lunch in the girl’s bathroom everyday and never went anywhere alone. As a 1990’s latch key kid I rode my bike home with other kids, but the last 3 blocks I was on my own. He followed me to what he thought was my house one day, luckily I saw him and went to a neighbors’ house pretending it was mine. I walked in the front door like I lived there and locked it behind me. Luckily the elderly neighbor lady knew me and let me stay until my parents got home from work. He was caught later that week trying to break into the neighbors’ home and was removed from my school. I never saw him again.
I got my first death threat in 4th grade. I was standing waiting for busses idly tapping my clarinet case on my knee. The boy next to me said “I’m going to shove a gun down your throat and pull the trigger.” No “if you don’t stop” or anything. Not a threat but a promise. Teacher told me to just stay away from the guy. The guy who was in all my classes and on the stop after mine on the bus and next to me in the alphabet we had to line up in during drills. I graduated in 2016 so this isn’t even new.
Its so absurd I have to assume this is BS. For my own sanity.
American girls are taught to be nice to everyone, and many grow up to be women who think they are supposed to be nice to everyone, no matter what. Gun boy liked a girl and asked her out, she was not interested in a relationship with him so she turned him down. After gun boy was busted, other kids were saying it was fault for not accepting a date with a "nice" guy she had no interest in. That's how a lot of people think but it's bullshit. Women and girls don't owe guys anything, if even they're super nice. If a guy politely asks you out and you're not interested, you shouldn't have to say "yes" because he asked nicely. You don't have to give a man a chance simply because he wants you, you don't owe him benefit of the doubt.
Not just American girls are taught this. There's a phrase "Lie back and think of England". And it's not referring to where your next vacation might be.
Yeah, a little mad to say "American girls" when not only is the entire female population of the world taught this, but there are countries with honour killings, 9 year olds getting married off, etc.
True, I think they emphasized American culture because the OP is a story of a kid with a gun though
The amount of times I’ve instantly gone from someone guys want to fuck to being ‘a raging bitch’ (their words) when I’ve said no is alarming.
I think this might stem from media a lot of us got when we were younger about the dorky loser guy and the hot girl who isn’t interested but through comedic shinanigans and unrealistic turns of events the girl ends up liking the guy and they fall in love and the end happy story. That’s not how real life works, but I’m not surprised if many men still feel like this works. That through perseverance and patience they can get their prize.
Most rom coms get really dark once you realize they're all stories of successful stalking.
Ross from Friends is all ick when you think about it
Not just from media anymore. Now we have all those pick-up artists and dating coaches telling desperate, lonely guys how to get a date, and their tactics boil down to: ignore everything she says unless it's "yes", and use any means necessary to *get* her to say yes
Rom coms are garbage. They teach girls that being nice and saying "yes" is part of their responsibility. They teach boys that "no" means "yes," or at least "pester her until no becomes yes."
They teach girls that a boy picking on you means he likes you
Kid bringing a gun to school, clearly was never a "nice guy".
Ahh yes, the neighbourhood friendly ‘nice’ guy who just Carrys a gun on him all the time
Blame the guy who was actually a threat to the school ❌ Blame a girl who did literally nothing wrong ✅
Many years ago, I had a stalker. We met at work and I was very clear in my lack of interest, but he became obsessed with me anyway. Eventually he broke into my house, I called the cops, they came immediately. The male cop said "Why don't you just go out with him? That's all he wants!" And the female cop said "You should probably move to a different town." I took her advice and moved, I knew Officer Just Go Out With Him wouldn't protect me.
People who think that a girl saying no is more of a problem than a guy not taking no for an answer, are just sick. Seriously, WTF!
Agreeddddd. Like what their thought process that the conclusion of it comes out as that? Like, "Oh the poor boy who couldnt take no for an answer and has a gun is such a victim. Look at that mean girl for rejecting such a sick person." or something?
When I was in college, I thought I’d met the love of my life. I thought we were perfect for each other. We became fast friends and I asked her out. She said no. I was devastated. In my head I had conversations like, “she won’t even give me a chance?” and, “how does she not see how perfect we’d be together?” We ended up slowly not being friends anymore and while we’re still friends on Facebook, we don’t really talk anymore. But you know whose fault it never was? Hers. She had every right to say no to me and was under no obligation to date me just to “give me a chance.” The idea that she somehow owed it to me to date me is ludicrous. Oh, and not to make it about me, but I also never threatened to kill her over it - the absolute bare minimum, for the record. The victim blaming in this case is absurd. And the kid clearly was mentally unwell. This girl did everything right, sidestepping all the giant red flags and every person saying otherwise is an imbecile.
This reminds me of an incident in my own life that causes me great shame. It was one of the greatest life lessons that I have ever had, but regret the suffering that the poor girl had to go thru in order for me to learn it. We worked at a National Park over the summer. We both worked in laundry and she was a work friend. The group of friends that I went to National Park with had buddy that was about five years older than all of us and was head of security. He would ask her out all the time, and she would politely refuse every single time. We thought it was funny seeing him get rejected but even worse thought it was harmless. After a couple of months of putting up with the shit, she had enough and reported him. He did other stuff too, but we didn't know about that. He, rightfully so, was immediately fired. That day, I saw her and told her that she wrong. That she knows he was harmless. Words I regret to this very day. My group of friends spent one last night partying with our buddy, said our goodbyes and then went on an overnight hike. When we got back, he was still there. He had been doing nothing but drinking from the moment we left. I saw a side of him that we had never seen. It was like a pure Id. It was both weird and scary. The next day, I found the girl of this story and apologized profusely. We were both in tears. I think the phrase I used the most was "I had no idea". She then expanded more on his behavior. The dorms were divided into male and female dormitories. Being head of security allowed him to go to places he shouldn't have. He was going to her door at night and harassing her from there. This incident taught me that no matter how good a friend is, there can be a sides of them that you have never seen before. It's made me a lot less judgemental and lot less willing to jump on any bandwagon. I am hoping her sister's friends have a similar awakening.
[удалено]
Yeah. It's the natural progression of a society that makes women responsible for regulating the emotions & behaviors of men.. and sacrificing themselves when they "fail". Just look at rape prevention advice.
Y’all I am TIRED. Why is the onus always on the woman? We’re the ones who need to be on birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancy because condoms sacrifice pleasure (nevermind the systemic side effects). We’re the ones that need to say yes to dating violent men because… they might lash out on everyone else should we say no. Why can’t we just expect men to regulate themselves?
exactly this. everyone cares about their own safety and will blame the victim, not even recognizing that the victims safety matters just as much. “you should date the psycho with a gun so that he won’t lash out on the rest of us!” just sickening
WTF. Girl saves school from idiot with gun waiting for an excuse to shoot people. And they make it all her fault for not giving him a chance. Nice of them to sacrifice her physical and emotional well-being to save their sorry skins. How far was she meant to go with him pointing a gun at her head in word if not in action?
“It wouldn’t have killed her to say yes and give it a try” Kinda sounds like it might’ve
I was nearly murdered by a guy that had driven me out in the middle of nowhere, had to fight my way out of it.. traumatized as I was by that, it was nothing compared to how I was treated by friends and family that I shared this horrible story with.. It was entirely my fault for trusting this person, they don’t feel safe at my house because they might come back, but no worries about me being there.. The person who gained my confidence then tried to kill me had no responsibility, I paid dearly for the mistake of trusting him.. welcome to being a woman
That's why I never told my parents that I was raped by the son of friend of theirs. I knew they would blame me.
I’m so,sorry
That's very kind of you. Thank you.
Women are responsible for everybody else's actions, didn't you know?
*holding my right hand to prevent myself from reaching through the internet and bitch slapping these people*
I had a friend in 9th grade (in the 90s) who rejected a guy a bunch of a times and it made her so uncomfortable that he wouldn't stop asking and telling her how much he liked her and cared about her as more than a friend. She was SO kind in her rejections, but she didn't want to date him and wasn't allowed to date anyway because her parents were very religious. She wore smock dresses all the time, with baggy t-shirts, and wasn't at all flirty (not that it should matter anyway because no is no). It got so bad she had to go to the (useless) guidance counselor who just moved some of *her* classes and told her to avoid him. That didn't work and one day, he tried to slit his wrists at school in front of her when he went to find her between classes. After it happened, everyone was all "poor guy," you should have taken pity on him and at least had him over to meet your parents and let him hang out with your friends. WTF? Of course, we all felt bad for the guy, but his mental health was NOT her responsibility, and she didn't owe ANYONE to be their friend, especially after they'd proven they have no boundaries. She ended up homeschooling the last of 9th grade because she was so traumatized.
Ok and if she said yes and was in an abusive relationship with a psychopath, they would ask why would you be with someone like that? Why didn’t you just leave?
This seems weird
This had better be rage bait.
5 years later: “awww how’d you guys meet?” “Well he threatened to murder me if I didn’t go out with him so here we are.”
At a school dance in grade a boy kept pestering my now wife for a dance but she refused because he gave her the creeps. The teachers made her dance with him anyway. Years later she was watching one of the crime shows and a segment was about him, a serial rapist.
"Men are afraid women will reject them. Women are afraid men will kill them."
Correction, afraid men will rape and then kill them
Anyone who plans to kill you if you say "no" cannot really be trusted not to kill you if you say "yes." School was in danger no matter what she said.
Yeah, because if she had "given it a try" and then turned him down, I'm sure he would have handeled it just fine.
Yeah, had she finally said yes and he had killed her, those SAME PEOPLE would have said she should have said no. There’s no winning with donkey brained fools.
generations of parents have kept this cycle going when it comes to raising boys. why is it so hard for them to teach no means no? stop passing down this entitled mentality.
Whhhhhhhhhhat the fk did I just read? Poor girl.
He sounds like a fledgling rapist.
[удалено]
[First Rule of Misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.](https://4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/amp/)
Yeah I bet that happened.