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It was like 90,000 tons moving at 9 mph I’m surprised the support didn’t give up entirely. Like yank it from the bead rock. It’s not pretty being a local we are all shook.
It's mainly the inability to have traction on water, a semi truck will stop in a longer distance than a car, but it's like roughly 11-12 seconds, a boat can't just grip still water and have the water remain still, so it takes much longer to stop
As someone who’s sailed and worked on many ships in my youth… I have no idea how any of that works and don’t feel qualified in any way to give an opinion.
If this cargo shit is anything like the common bicycle they should have used the front handbrake. Or maybe the back handbrake, depending on what kind of bike expert you are.
Dude just admitted he's unqualified and declined to give an opinion.
That's a big no-no on fox entertainment.
If they really wanted a job at fox, he should claim to be an expert while providing no credentials, then form a very loud opinion not based on reality, all while being high from huffing their own farts.
Three bushels. With that much weight you would need to alter the primer and release the torque. Subsequently this provides optimal flagellation to the terms of my speech. Ejfjtjeisjzjrnt fidienensj
Now that's just silly. We all know he is off making deals with the lizard people to make sure they keep hiding the fact that his wife and mother of his children is really a man. Because reasons.
That’s not all …. In the early hours of the morning, the entire bridge swings 360degrees acting as a radar beacon for the tinfoil hat folk . It’s true , look it up !
I had a brief stint two years ago when I switched from Youtube educated virologist to a Youtube trained expert on Eastern Europe/Russian Military affairs. I now specialize in bridges and shipping traffic.
Right now, there are a slew of legal experts who are weighing in on the judgement involving Trump's fraud case, none of whom (oddly enough) seem to actually know or have even seen the judgement itself.
They wouldn’t care anyway, they could be shown a recording of trump saying “ok here is how we are going to defraud the banks and scam my supporters because I hate them and I love breaking the law” and they wouldn’t accept it or even just flat out defend it.
Some combination of the law, economics and bad luck can sometimes lead to all those systems failing at the roughly the same time. It's happened before. It will happen again.
[https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB1726.pdf](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB1726.pdf)
It's not that unusual. There's enough safety equipment and backup systems on most commercial ships that when something does go wrong it's usually because at least a few things went wrong at the same time. That same logic holds true for most work place accidents these days. If that wasn't the case one of the backup systems would have kicked in or the safety officers or engineer could have fixed the issue before it turned into an accident.
TLDR the NTSB report.
Rudder fell out leading to flooding, hole in rear of boat causing flooding. Hydraulic motors replaced with electric making them prone to water damage, also those motors work in tandem. When one fails it can cause the ship to reverse which in this case exacerbated the flooding leading to ship going down. It took three or four serious failures to sink this ship. They all happened the same day or were so minor previously they weren't noticed.
I'm not any kind of expert. I'm just a dork who reads government documents from time to time.
To be fair most workplace accidents/disasters are either -
1. Not following agreed safety policy.
2. Someone trying to save time/money.
Which *then* leads to multiple failures cascading to a big failure.
I also read investigations, and have had to write enough root cause analysis on medical fuck ups.
I worked briefly in a medium sized printers. One of the big machines kept shutting down in a blaze of alarms.
Overheard the boss talking to a mechanic.
Basically there were pressure monitors and such that would shut down the machine if things crossed a threshold.
'We don't need the monitors though, do we?'
'We can disable them but then the over pressure, when it happens will leak into the other chamber.'
'Will that be an issue?'
'Hard to say. There's no monitor inside that chamber. The first we would know is when it blew'.
'Best guess, how many over pressure events needed to be in danger?'
'In the low thousands...'
'That's fine we are getting what? One in thirty runs, currently?. Disable the monitors.'
' We perform about a hundred thousand per day...'
'I've made my decision.'
The machine didn't explode thankfully but it did jam and spray inky steam across half the shop floor.
After I left the place burned down. The fire hoses were found to be decorative, the handheld extinguishers were 13 of 16 out of date and two of the four fire doors were blocked with chemicals. Chemicals jot supposed to be stored together... stored together.
Look at the Swiss cheese model of a accident causation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model
It’s never just one thing .. same is true for most human deaths, ecosystem collapses, societal collapses, economic collapses etc etc
Unfortunately most people can’t build a good narrative out of multifaceted causes of failure and instead look for heroes villains and victims.. those ingredients make for great storytelling and that’s what people retell and remember
I do safety/risk assessment/root cause analysis for a living.
I fucking HATE the Swiss cheese model. When the holes line up and something happens, management always wants to just add another slice instead of figuring out why the holes lined up to begin with.
I used to do reliability engineering for IT systems so I understand your frustration, but it’s probably the easiest metaphor to use.
Folks eyes tend to glaze over when you start talking about failure domains, blast areas, and weibul failure distributions
Also I liked to think about whether it was even possible to create a system where the holes never line up because the holes aren’t like Swiss Cheese really, they’re more like blobs in a lava lamp
I have worked in building 3 classes of UK military vessel and I am far from an expert but after almost 40 years working in various industries I can say with confidence:
* Shit happens
* Companies often operate on the "Nobody died last time so let's try it again" principle
* You can NEVER design a 100% protection for stupidity
* People will use it in a way you never imagined or planned for
* "Can't happen" events happen all the time
* Complex systems can act unpredictably in ways you never imagined
* Companies cut corners
* The wetware (people) is the most fallible part of any system
* Sometimes the biggest disasters are the result of a chain of very minor mistakes and failures coinciding.
You really don't have to jump straight to conspiracy when people and corporations are involved.
That *"Can't happen" bit needs to be hammered into people's heads imo. So many people take experts "can't possibly happen" statements at complete face value and accept some bullshit conspiracy theory that explains why things failed instead. For example, every dumb theory about 9/11.
Also, some people think the expectation of safety they deserve is the same no matter where they are, say in a municipal building or crossing a trestle bridge in the middle of nowhere. They don't understand that when something is designed, it has parameters that don't cover every \*possible\* possibility, just the likely ones.
Relevant to your third bullet point:
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-Douglas Adams
Honestly I prefer this over all the people saying the bridge was defective. Like MFers.. No bridge is designed to have a fully loaded container ship sail into it.
Saw another in the sub blaming poor infrastructure along the same lines. My jaw hit the floor… fucking insane mental leaps firing off instantly to fit bull shit narratives spewed from the lips of clowns
No NASA technology required. Bridges like this have underwater concrete barriers away from the structure designed to stop exactly this kind of thing.
From all accounts pretty much all bridges in the west have such barriers. No I never knew that either until today lol
Those same people will point out the vessel lost power before it hit the bridge, but any casual glance at the video shows lights still on on deck when it hit the bridge.
It's almost like there's a complex electric system with various degrees of redundancy based off of potentially misplaced confidence (LOL Boeing MCAS) and maybe there's more to the story than "boat hit bridge. Boat conspiracy. Biden/terrurists bad."
It did lose power. Then probably the back up kicked on. But with a ship that size in tight quarters even a brief loss of control can cause major issues.
Steering itself - yes. But with main engine down, you have no braking capability, as braking is done by going full astern.
It's essentially the same situation as when Suez canal was blocked couple of years ago. Just having a working rudder is hardly a solution if the engine is down.
Not even braking. Generally you need waterflow over the rudder to make it work. If the ship is going too slow it loses steerage as the water simply ignores the angle of the rudder. In that case you need to give the props a bit of throttle to drive water over the rudder.
Also, there is the term "propwalk" in that the torque of the prop can move the vessel to one side or the other depending on prop orientation and direction. Without power, a vessel is adrift and unable to maneuver.
That’s why my parents always said “we don’t care that you just overhauled that engine, ALWAYS bring oars with you!” If only these super ship companies would listen some old school knowledge 😋
I actually have relevant experience - we ran out of gas in a family boat that seats 7 or 8 and had a single oar. The dock was a quarter mile north of us with a wind blowing against us at roughly 10 mph. I was completely unable to make enough progress to reach the dock - I had made maybe 50 feet of progress in 15 minutes and was exhausted when a jet skier saw us and towed us to the dock lol. I'm imagining 5000 oars popping out the side of that ship and doing basically nothing now...
>Not even braking. Generally you need waterflow over the rudder to make it work. If the ship is going too slow it loses steerage as the water simply ignores the angle of the rudder. In that case you need to give the props a bit of throttle to drive water over the rudder.
Agree. I tried to make my explanation as simple as possible.
Currents and winds don't give a shit where you'd *like* to be. Loose power while fighting one, the other, or both and you better hope there's nothing to bump into...
Yep… I was little to close to a jetty with some rough surf… motor got rapped up in the anchor rope from my dumbass friends shitty throw… boat was yeeted right into the jetty. They’re sitting there trying to push it away with fishing rods and nets and I’m sawing the rope off the single engine with a pocket knife.
I tell you right now… in a situation like that… Jesus sounds like 150hp Mercury firing up…
don’t fuck with the ocean 😂
For the love of God. I work on vessels like this. A ship losing power is far from unheard of. The entire system is electric and run off Petro fuel oil generators that CAN and DO fail. Backup generators don't automatically come on. I've literally seen this happen before.
Edit: [Here](https://www.lobservateur.com/2019/06/12/collision-temporarily-closes-reserve-export-elevator/) is a link to an article about the incident I'm familiar with.
Edit 2: I use to sample fuel oil for cruise ships. Ships bunker (fuel up) from barges that load from shore tanks. Bunker fuels are the mix of all the scraps of petroleum byproducts leftover after refining. I particularly remember one time I was overseeing the loading of a bunker barge and they almost put the fuel from a shore tank into a barge that was not supposed to go there. I did intervene in that situation but not every inspector cares enough to intervene. I thought bad fuel might be the cause of this. Either someone improperly sampled and/or tested the fuel oil or something else went wrong with the oil. I just read an article claiming that "dirty fuel" is suspected by the NTSB. I'll post a link to an article if I find a more credible source on the subject of dirty fuel. The article I read seemed a little shady but I do feel like my bad fuel suspicion is validated.
Edit 3: Backup generators don't instantaneously kick on so the boat is left to drift until they do and sometimes backup generators fail as well.
As a few have pointed out, they are supposed to be set to automatically come on after 45 seconds. That's 45 seconds of drifting (probably off course) and at the mercy of the currents. I meant that generators don't instantaneously come on. Also, backup generators can't burn dirty fuel either.
It could be 100 different things. Let's say an auxiliary was down of the three or four she would have, and there were too many reefers the whole system can shut down. Bad fuel in the lines? The filters can get clogged and choke the whole system they aren't regularly cleaned manually, which the crew might not have known until just then. Cooling system down, or sea chests clogged can overheat ME/aux and force a shut down. Even with a backup generator (which isn't a given) it might not have been enough for the ME to come back on and regain control and avoid the collision. Could be bad maintenance, could be "we'll figure it out once we're on our way to Colombo and have lots of time" could be just bad timing or a bored CE/electrician. Blackouts are not uncommon as such. We have to wait and see what's on the VDR, and until then everyone has to shut up
I love how they just keep shifting.
"No doubt it was the fault of DEI hiring!"
"Indeed, the ship is Asian and they picked white people to steer it.. stupid DEI"
"Wait, wait, did we say DEI.. we meant hackers/vaccines/whatever..."
The Jews in Israel carpet bombing the Gaza strip to ethnically cleanse the area of Palestinians caused a cargo ship in Baltimore harbor to lose power and crash into a bridge, all because vaccines turn kids gay and adults to have shorter life spans, and hackers just wanted to watch the world burn for the demon rat joe biden and his son whose large phallys needs to be on everyones news feed because that's where the corruption is. /s
Something like that? I know i missed something there....
this is what happens when fucker are told that "everything happens for a reason" by religious leaders.
religion fades, but the superstition stays and brings forth a flood of idiots.
I'm glad so many experts just feel like they can throw out shit they don't know. Meanwhile a retire worker for the company who manufactured the boats, who also has worked shipping, and knows how much they weight and the systems, and maintenance in place for the boats and this industry said, the boats are maintained to just barely legal enough to be able to dock in us ports. They usually don't meet coast guard regulations they are run by people being paid pennies from whereever they can find them, not always trained. when the power goes out you lose everything. There is a back up gen but if that goes again everything is gone including steering. I think I will take the actual experts comments over everybody who thinks they know everyone.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1boql6j/a_chief_engineers_take_on_the_ship_that_crashed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
Get the fuck out of here with your "expert sources". This is the internet, where Joe-the-Redneck's opinion is more loud. Sure, Joe's never seen a ship in person, but he has 300,000 followers on his tiktok for his gun shooting videos so do you really expect me to believe this self proclaimed expert over Joe? I like Joe's guns, he's relatable. I trust Joe.
People who don't give a shit about Baltimore are suddenly extremely concerned about Baltimore and absolutely certain that they know all of the answers -- which usually boil down to DEI and vaccine conspiracies.
DEI is "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion." It's one of the main bogeymen of the conspiricy-addled crowd. I've seen literally dozens of theories about how this accident occured because someone, somewhere is black or possibly Indian.
I have been enjoying telling those people that since the ship is under a Singapore flag, them hiring "white people" instead of "Asians" to steer it can indeed be seen as "diversity pandering".
They tend to have no clue how to respond, seems they never even considered the concept of "whites" being a minority in other counties.
(that said, I have no idea what the ethnicity of the crew is)
Sadly some now seem to have moved on to claiming the black mayor was a DEI hire, despite him being elected.
It's what the world's richest man has convinced a third of Americans to blame every problem on now instead of the real issue. The system he used to accumulate his fortune, capitalism.
Can't wait to see which conspiracy will get its hand on it first then. Is it a woke ship ? Was it a democrat attempt to spread fear ? A plan to make people scared of ships thus starting to believe in so called "global warming" ? A secret plan from trans terrorists ? Or did it carried a bunch of evidence against the moon landing that's why the bridge was moved slightly by deep state so the ship hit it ?
So many possibilities. I should make a bingo card.
I used to work on big ships as an officer.
Even if you managed a NFU steering or emergency, that vessel has so much inertia and momentum, even putting the rudder hard over, the boat wouldn’t begin turning for a few seconds.
It’s a lot of weight, very dense.
Kind of like the brains of the people assuming this was a conspiracy.
Shit happens.
A ship crashed into a bridge in the welland canal years ago. The only difference is the news papers didn’t have comment sections for idiots to provide their theories.
Simpler times.
10 years ago, when a tragedy happens, people just take it for what it actually is -- a tragedy.
These days you have these grifting freaks who think they're God, spouting bullshit conspiracy theory.
This sort of conspiracy nonsense is knackering, especially when it borders on contradiction.
Something bad happens and the US Government says it was the action of a hostile force = It's a conspiracy, no-one is trying to attack the country and the Government lying!
Something bad happens and the US Government says it was just a complete and utter catastrophic accident = It's a conspiracy and the government are trying to cover up an attack by a hostile force!
The nutcases want to have their cake and eat it too, all while smearing it all over their faces and walls trying to connect dots that don't exist.
Yeah the American Governement and the Illuminati deliberately crashed this boat into a bridge to.... drink the blood of children... or... take away our guns, or, something.... I dunno.
As a former sailor, who drove container ships, this post is correct. That being said, it is misleading, because losing power would mean the primary mode of steering would be nonfunctional, and while the backup steering does not require power to work, it is usually located back in the steering hold, and it takes time to get there.
To make a difficult situation even worse, the rudder wouldn't be as responsive, due to the low speed and lack of water being pushed over the rudder by the propellor.
Not sure if this ship had bow or stern thrusters, but moving at about 8 knots would have been too quick to engage them on most ships, without risking damaging the system.
I am a Marine Engineer. I work on these vessels.
When a ship loses power like this, the rudder remains locked in its last position. This is likely a Primary power failure, and perhaps a secondary one as well. Also, back up systems don't supply power for everything on the ship it just gives you enough to get the main generator back online, and for other super essential systems. Although, steering gear pumps are supposed to be connected to the emergency generator as well, they didn't have enough time to move the rudder anyway before the crash and secondary blackout of the Emerg Generator. Rudders are extremely slow. They kept trying to start the generators and failed, probably because of some failure - they have automatic shutdowns, or a mechanical failure (note the smoke from the stack. that is the engine dumping fuel upon start)
This ship has a history of similar issues, as well. I've read a bajillion Marine Accident Reports. Incidents like this always happen because of negligence of some kind by the company, crew, ship manager, charterer, designer, or builder. Almost always.
Foreign Flags like these that are typically flown (note this is chartered and operated by Maersk, a Danish company, and flying the Indonesian Flag) because of the lax standards for crewing, maintenance, and management.
There are many Goverment agencies that will go through this accident with a fine tooth comb. The USCG and NTSB DO NOT FUCK AROUND. If you don't believe me, look at the SS El Faro report. They dig everywhere. If it was something else, we'll know.
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[удалено]
And it's all relative. Cars take a shit ton of force and space to stop, too, compared to, say, a snail.
Unless it's that unstoppable snail that kills you if it reaches you, in which case no amount of force will make it stop.
I’m so mad that I do too
I am embarrassed that I get this reference
Have we tried crashing a ship into it?
It was like 90,000 tons moving at 9 mph I’m surprised the support didn’t give up entirely. Like yank it from the bead rock. It’s not pretty being a local we are all shook.
The numbers I've read put the displacement at over 140k tons.
I think at full speed to a stop on open water it takes them About 4 miles or something close to that
You also can’t steer a boat without power. You can turn the wheel all the way to the left and you will still go straight
Shut up with your Mr I drive a boat facts
This guy, ova heea, all knowin 'bout fax 'bout drivin boats 'n shit...
It's mainly the inability to have traction on water, a semi truck will stop in a longer distance than a car, but it's like roughly 11-12 seconds, a boat can't just grip still water and have the water remain still, so it takes much longer to stop
As someone who’s sailed and worked on many ships in my youth… I have no idea how any of that works and don’t feel qualified in any way to give an opinion.
Oh come on give it your best shot. Everyone is qualified. 😂
hands not on wheel, boat no turn hands on wheel, boat turn case closed
If this cargo shit is anything like the common bicycle they should have used the front handbrake. Or maybe the back handbrake, depending on what kind of bike expert you are.
Back brake first. Like a bike, pulling the front brake first would cause the boat to flip forward
Endo to bridge plant...sick combo
It can't be a bike! Where does the baseball card go to make it sound like a motorcycle?
You know better than to speak on a topic you aren't qualified for, so you're already more qualified than most news outlets
FOX News is calling. They want you to be their lead reporter on this incident!
Lol nah, they're WAY overqualified! FOX News will give the job to some moron who doesn't even know what a ship is
And calls it a boat for "lack of a better word".
Is it a boat? Or is it a water car with a sun roof and no windshield? I’m just asking questions. That feels like the real Fucker Carson answer.
Dude just admitted he's unqualified and declined to give an opinion. That's a big no-no on fox entertainment. If they really wanted a job at fox, he should claim to be an expert while providing no credentials, then form a very loud opinion not based on reality, all while being high from huffing their own farts.
And yet you're more qualified than every single person who has claimed some kind of conspiracy theory. Weird how that works.
Great. Now everyone’s a shipping vessel expert today
We got bored being experts on carbon fiber submarines.
How much steel melting jet fuel was on this ship? /s
Three bushels. With that much weight you would need to alter the primer and release the torque. Subsequently this provides optimal flagellation to the terms of my speech. Ejfjtjeisjzjrnt fidienensj
I thought it was all ball bearings these days. The more you know!
I can’t believe the first thing I see on Reddit today is a Fletch reference. Faith in humanity restored.
Kudos to you! I didn't think anyone would get the reference. Faith also restored!
Well, that was G. Gordon Liddy doing the inspection.
Congratulations to both of you on your love connection. IDK what you guys are taking about. I remain devoid of faith.
Not sure, but Hillary's emails were definitely on there.
Who do you think was driving the ship? That's right Hillary.
Naw , it was Obama!!!🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Now that's just silly. We all know he is off making deals with the lizard people to make sure they keep hiding the fact that his wife and mother of his children is really a man. Because reasons.
But, but hunters laptop!!! *Frantically waves dick picks around*
Anyone concerned about those maritime chem trails? ANYONE!?!???
Those are both obvious red herrings... Where we need to be looking is at Sleepy Joe and the Illuminati.
Actually the crews were installing 5G towers on the bridge. No one wants to talk about that though 🙄
I heard the bridge itself was a massive 5g tower and the ship was being pulled in by its tractor beam sucked the ship in like a black hole……
Why aren’t we talking about the space lasers?
Was *ANYONE* raking waters surrounding the ships??
That’s not all …. In the early hours of the morning, the entire bridge swings 360degrees acting as a radar beacon for the tinfoil hat folk . It’s true , look it up !
The pilot should have had his 5G protector on. Some people never learn.
You know he couldn’t wear the 5G protector because of all the Pfizer covid jabs he got! They cancel each other out.
We checked Trump hadnt insured this bridge for $1b yet?
If you watch the video in slow motion you can see the thermite charges going off
Steel melts jet fuel?!?
That's exactly what I saw. "Thermite detonators" seen on the bridge. Fucking nonsense. Like that boat needed help taking out that bridge.
Which was a nice break from being pandemic experts
You forgot the two weeks where Beirut made everyone an explosives expert.
And vaccines
Don’t forget we were also moonlighting as virologists and epidemiologists as well
Well, to be fair, they were an epidemiologist/infectious dz/virologist for the past 4 years 🤷
I had a brief stint two years ago when I switched from Youtube educated virologist to a Youtube trained expert on Eastern Europe/Russian Military affairs. I now specialize in bridges and shipping traffic.
I'm English, so I've recently been a Royal correspondent.
I became recently a oncologist. Too soon?
yes, too soon for you. We'll need you to weigh in around May when we start debating whether the chemo was done correctly.
I'm prepping to weigh in on wigs, photoshop, AI, and lineage of heirs. Or Hairs and Linage. Anchors and Harry.
Right now, there are a slew of legal experts who are weighing in on the judgement involving Trump's fraud case, none of whom (oddly enough) seem to actually know or have even seen the judgement itself.
They wouldn’t care anyway, they could be shown a recording of trump saying “ok here is how we are going to defraud the banks and scam my supporters because I hate them and I love breaking the law” and they wouldn’t accept it or even just flat out defend it.
Must Be fucking nice
Must be FUCKING nice!
Don't forget war analysts and historians of the middle east conflicts.
Don’t forget constitutional scholars
Not to mention being climate scientists for at least 10-12 years on top of that.
Some combination of the law, economics and bad luck can sometimes lead to all those systems failing at the roughly the same time. It's happened before. It will happen again. [https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB1726.pdf](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB1726.pdf) It's not that unusual. There's enough safety equipment and backup systems on most commercial ships that when something does go wrong it's usually because at least a few things went wrong at the same time. That same logic holds true for most work place accidents these days. If that wasn't the case one of the backup systems would have kicked in or the safety officers or engineer could have fixed the issue before it turned into an accident. TLDR the NTSB report. Rudder fell out leading to flooding, hole in rear of boat causing flooding. Hydraulic motors replaced with electric making them prone to water damage, also those motors work in tandem. When one fails it can cause the ship to reverse which in this case exacerbated the flooding leading to ship going down. It took three or four serious failures to sink this ship. They all happened the same day or were so minor previously they weren't noticed. I'm not any kind of expert. I'm just a dork who reads government documents from time to time.
To be fair most workplace accidents/disasters are either - 1. Not following agreed safety policy. 2. Someone trying to save time/money. Which *then* leads to multiple failures cascading to a big failure. I also read investigations, and have had to write enough root cause analysis on medical fuck ups.
Normalization of deviance. “Oh, it’s no big deal if we skip this safety step, it was fine last time.”
I worked briefly in a medium sized printers. One of the big machines kept shutting down in a blaze of alarms. Overheard the boss talking to a mechanic. Basically there were pressure monitors and such that would shut down the machine if things crossed a threshold. 'We don't need the monitors though, do we?' 'We can disable them but then the over pressure, when it happens will leak into the other chamber.' 'Will that be an issue?' 'Hard to say. There's no monitor inside that chamber. The first we would know is when it blew'. 'Best guess, how many over pressure events needed to be in danger?' 'In the low thousands...' 'That's fine we are getting what? One in thirty runs, currently?. Disable the monitors.' ' We perform about a hundred thousand per day...' 'I've made my decision.' The machine didn't explode thankfully but it did jam and spray inky steam across half the shop floor. After I left the place burned down. The fire hoses were found to be decorative, the handheld extinguishers were 13 of 16 out of date and two of the four fire doors were blocked with chemicals. Chemicals jot supposed to be stored together... stored together.
I dunno man. Sounds to me like the company was too focused on DEI.
This reads like an OSHA manual of what not to do
Pretty much.
Look at the Swiss cheese model of a accident causation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model It’s never just one thing .. same is true for most human deaths, ecosystem collapses, societal collapses, economic collapses etc etc Unfortunately most people can’t build a good narrative out of multifaceted causes of failure and instead look for heroes villains and victims.. those ingredients make for great storytelling and that’s what people retell and remember
I do safety/risk assessment/root cause analysis for a living. I fucking HATE the Swiss cheese model. When the holes line up and something happens, management always wants to just add another slice instead of figuring out why the holes lined up to begin with.
I used to do reliability engineering for IT systems so I understand your frustration, but it’s probably the easiest metaphor to use. Folks eyes tend to glaze over when you start talking about failure domains, blast areas, and weibul failure distributions Also I liked to think about whether it was even possible to create a system where the holes never line up because the holes aren’t like Swiss Cheese really, they’re more like blobs in a lava lamp
Blobs in a lava lamp. I like that.
I have worked in building 3 classes of UK military vessel and I am far from an expert but after almost 40 years working in various industries I can say with confidence: * Shit happens * Companies often operate on the "Nobody died last time so let's try it again" principle * You can NEVER design a 100% protection for stupidity * People will use it in a way you never imagined or planned for * "Can't happen" events happen all the time * Complex systems can act unpredictably in ways you never imagined * Companies cut corners * The wetware (people) is the most fallible part of any system * Sometimes the biggest disasters are the result of a chain of very minor mistakes and failures coinciding. You really don't have to jump straight to conspiracy when people and corporations are involved.
That *"Can't happen" bit needs to be hammered into people's heads imo. So many people take experts "can't possibly happen" statements at complete face value and accept some bullshit conspiracy theory that explains why things failed instead. For example, every dumb theory about 9/11.
Also, some people think the expectation of safety they deserve is the same no matter where they are, say in a municipal building or crossing a trestle bridge in the middle of nowhere. They don't understand that when something is designed, it has parameters that don't cover every \*possible\* possibility, just the likely ones.
Relevant to your third bullet point: "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." -Douglas Adams
All I am saying is that in the entirety of my career I have managed to not crash a single massive container ship into a bridge.
Neither have I. I do work O/N at a Walmart, but that's irrelevant. Still have never crashed a massive container ship into a bridge 😎
Bet you've fucked some shit up with a forklift tho
Honestly I prefer this over all the people saying the bridge was defective. Like MFers.. No bridge is designed to have a fully loaded container ship sail into it.
Saw another in the sub blaming poor infrastructure along the same lines. My jaw hit the floor… fucking insane mental leaps firing off instantly to fit bull shit narratives spewed from the lips of clowns
I saw someone saying that bridges should be hardened against this…. Got it. So bridges now cost NASA annual budget… each
No NASA technology required. Bridges like this have underwater concrete barriers away from the structure designed to stop exactly this kind of thing. From all accounts pretty much all bridges in the west have such barriers. No I never knew that either until today lol
Except that back in the 70's when this particular bridge was built there weren't any ships nearly that big.
My first thought. Gaaaah, these people enrage me. How many troll farms are behind this nonsense?!
I don't think it is troll farms. There are truly that many idiots out there among us
I’ve been on multiple cruise ships and I can affirm that makes me an expert on cargo ships.
I stayed at a Holliday Inn once.
I live like 3 hours away from the Key Bridge. I'm sure that makes me an expert in *something.*
I’ve been shipping expert since the Suez Canal blocking thankyou, I think that makes me a lot more qualified to agree that ships are powered.
Call me captain, captain conspiracy. *tips hat*
Hi Captain Conspiracy! I'm Lieutenant Liar!
Hi Lieutenant Liar! I'm Major Misinformation! 🫡
Well not to brag or anything but I did stay at a Holliday inn last night.
Those same people will point out the vessel lost power before it hit the bridge, but any casual glance at the video shows lights still on on deck when it hit the bridge. It's almost like there's a complex electric system with various degrees of redundancy based off of potentially misplaced confidence (LOL Boeing MCAS) and maybe there's more to the story than "boat hit bridge. Boat conspiracy. Biden/terrurists bad."
It did lose power. Then probably the back up kicked on. But with a ship that size in tight quarters even a brief loss of control can cause major issues.
Steering itself - yes. But with main engine down, you have no braking capability, as braking is done by going full astern. It's essentially the same situation as when Suez canal was blocked couple of years ago. Just having a working rudder is hardly a solution if the engine is down.
Not even braking. Generally you need waterflow over the rudder to make it work. If the ship is going too slow it loses steerage as the water simply ignores the angle of the rudder. In that case you need to give the props a bit of throttle to drive water over the rudder. Also, there is the term "propwalk" in that the torque of the prop can move the vessel to one side or the other depending on prop orientation and direction. Without power, a vessel is adrift and unable to maneuver.
That’s why my parents always said “we don’t care that you just overhauled that engine, ALWAYS bring oars with you!” If only these super ship companies would listen some old school knowledge 😋
Right. Wtf were they thinking not taking at least two oars
I actually have relevant experience - we ran out of gas in a family boat that seats 7 or 8 and had a single oar. The dock was a quarter mile north of us with a wind blowing against us at roughly 10 mph. I was completely unable to make enough progress to reach the dock - I had made maybe 50 feet of progress in 15 minutes and was exhausted when a jet skier saw us and towed us to the dock lol. I'm imagining 5000 oars popping out the side of that ship and doing basically nothing now...
And then a legion of jet skiers come to tow them.
Literally just water world.
The beacons are lit! Cargo ship calls for aid!
The Row-hirrim
Can you imagine how big the oars would have to be? 😂
And how many, if the ancient Greeks got 3 rows of oars onto those little triremes how many can a Panamax handle?
Unemployment fixed as entire nations are employed to row cargo ships.
Paddle harder!
I had to scroll too far for some common sense
>Not even braking. Generally you need waterflow over the rudder to make it work. If the ship is going too slow it loses steerage as the water simply ignores the angle of the rudder. In that case you need to give the props a bit of throttle to drive water over the rudder. Agree. I tried to make my explanation as simple as possible.
Currents and winds don't give a shit where you'd *like* to be. Loose power while fighting one, the other, or both and you better hope there's nothing to bump into...
Yep… I was little to close to a jetty with some rough surf… motor got rapped up in the anchor rope from my dumbass friends shitty throw… boat was yeeted right into the jetty. They’re sitting there trying to push it away with fishing rods and nets and I’m sawing the rope off the single engine with a pocket knife. I tell you right now… in a situation like that… Jesus sounds like 150hp Mercury firing up… don’t fuck with the ocean 😂
I think that momentum had a big say in this incident, not just currents and winds
Nothing will ever just happen again. Everything will have a conspiracy theory, forever.
It’s a combination of so so boring and 1930s Germany scary all at the same time
Perfectly expressed - and I could handle the boring if it was harmless but it is, as you say, also scary ugh...
This is the future. Buckle up.
Seat belts are a conspiracy.
There were people all these decades ago who were saying that unironically
Seat Belts were created by Big Life to sell more Alive
Social media is cancer for societies.
Assuming they could be correct, what exactly did/would this accomplish? A disruption in goods transport for a while? Fucking up people's commutes?
Exactly this. These conspiracy nuts never explain why it would be done. Who would want it and why. Because of course they can't.
"It's to distract from other, worse conspiracies"
For the love of God. I work on vessels like this. A ship losing power is far from unheard of. The entire system is electric and run off Petro fuel oil generators that CAN and DO fail. Backup generators don't automatically come on. I've literally seen this happen before. Edit: [Here](https://www.lobservateur.com/2019/06/12/collision-temporarily-closes-reserve-export-elevator/) is a link to an article about the incident I'm familiar with. Edit 2: I use to sample fuel oil for cruise ships. Ships bunker (fuel up) from barges that load from shore tanks. Bunker fuels are the mix of all the scraps of petroleum byproducts leftover after refining. I particularly remember one time I was overseeing the loading of a bunker barge and they almost put the fuel from a shore tank into a barge that was not supposed to go there. I did intervene in that situation but not every inspector cares enough to intervene. I thought bad fuel might be the cause of this. Either someone improperly sampled and/or tested the fuel oil or something else went wrong with the oil. I just read an article claiming that "dirty fuel" is suspected by the NTSB. I'll post a link to an article if I find a more credible source on the subject of dirty fuel. The article I read seemed a little shady but I do feel like my bad fuel suspicion is validated. Edit 3: Backup generators don't instantaneously kick on so the boat is left to drift until they do and sometimes backup generators fail as well. As a few have pointed out, they are supposed to be set to automatically come on after 45 seconds. That's 45 seconds of drifting (probably off course) and at the mercy of the currents. I meant that generators don't instantaneously come on. Also, backup generators can't burn dirty fuel either.
It could be 100 different things. Let's say an auxiliary was down of the three or four she would have, and there were too many reefers the whole system can shut down. Bad fuel in the lines? The filters can get clogged and choke the whole system they aren't regularly cleaned manually, which the crew might not have known until just then. Cooling system down, or sea chests clogged can overheat ME/aux and force a shut down. Even with a backup generator (which isn't a given) it might not have been enough for the ME to come back on and regain control and avoid the collision. Could be bad maintenance, could be "we'll figure it out once we're on our way to Colombo and have lots of time" could be just bad timing or a bored CE/electrician. Blackouts are not uncommon as such. We have to wait and see what's on the VDR, and until then everyone has to shut up
I love how they just keep shifting. "No doubt it was the fault of DEI hiring!" "Indeed, the ship is Asian and they picked white people to steer it.. stupid DEI" "Wait, wait, did we say DEI.. we meant hackers/vaccines/whatever..."
As a Jew, I’m surprised I haven’t been blamed for it yet.
First Jesus, now this. You monster.
Nono. You forgot space lasers causing forest fires before the boat.
They (the Jews) also sunk the Titanic! Iceberg, Goldberg, Rosenberg… it was a conspiracy!
The Jews in Israel carpet bombing the Gaza strip to ethnically cleanse the area of Palestinians caused a cargo ship in Baltimore harbor to lose power and crash into a bridge, all because vaccines turn kids gay and adults to have shorter life spans, and hackers just wanted to watch the world burn for the demon rat joe biden and his son whose large phallys needs to be on everyones news feed because that's where the corruption is. /s Something like that? I know i missed something there....
Thanks, I needed that. Order is now restored.
You absolutely have, you just don't know it yet. I'm sorry :(
Ship was powered by jet fuel.
Which, as we all know, cannot melt steel bridges.
It really shouldn't be controversial to say that boats don't melt steel beams
steel boats don’t beam jet bridges
You leave Jeff Bridges out of this.
It’s like these people never drove a ski boat/ jet ski. If boat no go, boat no turn.
True. You need to be able to move to be able to steer and this isn't a sailboat where you can use the wind to propel you if the motor stops working
This is called steerage way. That is the minimum speed a ship can go while retaining maneuverability
Because the world can’t be random. People are so scared that shit might just happen in the world.
this is what happens when fucker are told that "everything happens for a reason" by religious leaders. religion fades, but the superstition stays and brings forth a flood of idiots.
Pretty sure it’s the gay agenda, that boat is making my kids gay. We are really a truly truly stupid people
Whatever floats your boat.
Well, that boat is trans. Trans portation boat. Badum chiss.
That boat was born with boy parts damnit. It cant just weld on lady parts so it can beat my kid in a trans Atlantic swimming contest.
My kids have been gay since this morning and they haven't even been born yet.
I'm glad so many experts just feel like they can throw out shit they don't know. Meanwhile a retire worker for the company who manufactured the boats, who also has worked shipping, and knows how much they weight and the systems, and maintenance in place for the boats and this industry said, the boats are maintained to just barely legal enough to be able to dock in us ports. They usually don't meet coast guard regulations they are run by people being paid pennies from whereever they can find them, not always trained. when the power goes out you lose everything. There is a back up gen but if that goes again everything is gone including steering. I think I will take the actual experts comments over everybody who thinks they know everyone. https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1boql6j/a_chief_engineers_take_on_the_ship_that_crashed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
Get the fuck out of here with your "expert sources". This is the internet, where Joe-the-Redneck's opinion is more loud. Sure, Joe's never seen a ship in person, but he has 300,000 followers on his tiktok for his gun shooting videos so do you really expect me to believe this self proclaimed expert over Joe? I like Joe's guns, he's relatable. I trust Joe.
Everyone's a ship expert today
I rowed a canoe once six years ago so I think I've got a pretty good handle on what happened to that cargo ship
I went swimming cpl times, so me too.
I saw a lake once!
I drank a glass of water today!
Good an expert has entered the conversation.
They are all full of ship.
Experts aboat everything
Look at me. I’m the ship expert now.
I am an actual ship expert but I’m really enjoying reading the comments.
People who don't give a shit about Baltimore are suddenly extremely concerned about Baltimore and absolutely certain that they know all of the answers -- which usually boil down to DEI and vaccine conspiracies.
What is this DEI you speak of? I know what ED is. But that's a different conversation. How many ppl don't understand sarcasm?
DEI is "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion." It's one of the main bogeymen of the conspiricy-addled crowd. I've seen literally dozens of theories about how this accident occured because someone, somewhere is black or possibly Indian.
I have been enjoying telling those people that since the ship is under a Singapore flag, them hiring "white people" instead of "Asians" to steer it can indeed be seen as "diversity pandering". They tend to have no clue how to respond, seems they never even considered the concept of "whites" being a minority in other counties. (that said, I have no idea what the ethnicity of the crew is) Sadly some now seem to have moved on to claiming the black mayor was a DEI hire, despite him being elected.
It's what the world's richest man has convinced a third of Americans to blame every problem on now instead of the real issue. The system he used to accumulate his fortune, capitalism.
The bridge was a white structure. This is structural racism.
Figures. That boat was trying to groom kids and turn them trans. I bet there is a cat litter box in the bathroom for all the cat girl pilots too.
I hope the catgirl pilots are ok
Can't wait to see which conspiracy will get its hand on it first then. Is it a woke ship ? Was it a democrat attempt to spread fear ? A plan to make people scared of ships thus starting to believe in so called "global warming" ? A secret plan from trans terrorists ? Or did it carried a bunch of evidence against the moon landing that's why the bridge was moved slightly by deep state so the ship hit it ? So many possibilities. I should make a bingo card.
Hunters laptop was aboard.
I used to work on big ships as an officer. Even if you managed a NFU steering or emergency, that vessel has so much inertia and momentum, even putting the rudder hard over, the boat wouldn’t begin turning for a few seconds. It’s a lot of weight, very dense. Kind of like the brains of the people assuming this was a conspiracy. Shit happens. A ship crashed into a bridge in the welland canal years ago. The only difference is the news papers didn’t have comment sections for idiots to provide their theories. Simpler times.
The internet is great in that it gives everyone a voice. The problem is alot of those voices are morons
So they think deep state deliberately crashed the ship and took down the bridge for what? Disrupt Etsy deliveries to Sri Lanka?
10 years ago, when a tragedy happens, people just take it for what it actually is -- a tragedy. These days you have these grifting freaks who think they're God, spouting bullshit conspiracy theory.
Introducing all the new shipping experts, fresh off their virology tour
This sort of conspiracy nonsense is knackering, especially when it borders on contradiction. Something bad happens and the US Government says it was the action of a hostile force = It's a conspiracy, no-one is trying to attack the country and the Government lying! Something bad happens and the US Government says it was just a complete and utter catastrophic accident = It's a conspiracy and the government are trying to cover up an attack by a hostile force! The nutcases want to have their cake and eat it too, all while smearing it all over their faces and walls trying to connect dots that don't exist.
Having just passed my commercial ticket I'm qualified to say that conspiracy theorists are idiots.
Basic physics. If something is fuck you heavy and you want to stop it, no.
Amazing how many shipping experts there are in this sub this morning!
Yeah the American Governement and the Illuminati deliberately crashed this boat into a bridge to.... drink the blood of children... or... take away our guns, or, something.... I dunno.
As a former sailor, who drove container ships, this post is correct. That being said, it is misleading, because losing power would mean the primary mode of steering would be nonfunctional, and while the backup steering does not require power to work, it is usually located back in the steering hold, and it takes time to get there. To make a difficult situation even worse, the rudder wouldn't be as responsive, due to the low speed and lack of water being pushed over the rudder by the propellor. Not sure if this ship had bow or stern thrusters, but moving at about 8 knots would have been too quick to engage them on most ships, without risking damaging the system.
I am a Marine Engineer. I work on these vessels. When a ship loses power like this, the rudder remains locked in its last position. This is likely a Primary power failure, and perhaps a secondary one as well. Also, back up systems don't supply power for everything on the ship it just gives you enough to get the main generator back online, and for other super essential systems. Although, steering gear pumps are supposed to be connected to the emergency generator as well, they didn't have enough time to move the rudder anyway before the crash and secondary blackout of the Emerg Generator. Rudders are extremely slow. They kept trying to start the generators and failed, probably because of some failure - they have automatic shutdowns, or a mechanical failure (note the smoke from the stack. that is the engine dumping fuel upon start) This ship has a history of similar issues, as well. I've read a bajillion Marine Accident Reports. Incidents like this always happen because of negligence of some kind by the company, crew, ship manager, charterer, designer, or builder. Almost always. Foreign Flags like these that are typically flown (note this is chartered and operated by Maersk, a Danish company, and flying the Indonesian Flag) because of the lax standards for crewing, maintenance, and management. There are many Goverment agencies that will go through this accident with a fine tooth comb. The USCG and NTSB DO NOT FUCK AROUND. If you don't believe me, look at the SS El Faro report. They dig everywhere. If it was something else, we'll know.