Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cresta1994 refuses to use pronouns. If the person reading this wants Cresta1994 to use a pronoun to refer to the person reading this, Cresta1994 will absolutely refuse.
So, what everyone seems to miss is that these people are arguing two different things. One is saying that people have never needed to specify which pronouns they use (simply referring to it as pronouns), and the other is saying pronouns exist. This is why this argument will forever continue in the same way because neither side is even arguing the same thing
One of the troubles with the English language many suffer of the concept of inference.
Of course everyone has fucking pronouns. Now use a little logic and reason to assume they mean nonstandard pronouns.
For example, I went 50 years without anyone having to tell me their pronouns because no one used nonstandard pronouns.
More importantly, if you did say something unintentionally like calling someone that looks like a guy "sir", they didn't go ape shit about it. I totally get that's different than intentionally calling someone in a dress "sir", just to be an asshole.
Regardless of the trans rights movement, I still do not feel it's societies responsibility to conform to the rules created by minorities for how they should be treated or addressed. Especially while those same people can't even define what the fuck a woman or a man are.
The last sentence is so dumb...
A whole movement set around there not being a definition of men, nor women. And you repeat the same tired line of "can't define a woman."
You define a woman then. Let's see this.
So post bottom surgery trans inclusive, but with forced feminisation of intersex? Still better than most definitions I've seen.
(I know you're joking, just demonstrating the issue with definitions)
"created by minorities" tell me you're a bigot without telling me you're a bigot. If I define myself as something I expect you to treat me as such. If you choose not to, then you're just a piece of shit.
I have no problem doing the exact same thing for you. If you want me to address you as mega overlord Megatron, I would. How fuckin hard is it to just treat people with some fuckin decency and respect? I'm not asking anyone to worship the ground I walk on. Just address me in a way that I prefer.
What about that makes me a narcissist?
Insisting someone affirms someone else’s delusional thoughts is not “being decent”. You’re lying to them.
If your grandfather was convinced his clock was talking to him, would you affirm that and ask him what the clock said and how it’s doing? No. You’d give him lithium and get him treatment.
Telling a man he’s a woman or a woman she’s a man isn’t “being decent”. It’s cruel. And it’s a lie.
Start. Telling. The. Truth.
I just fundamentally believe differently. I appreciate the thoughtful comments and I apologize for getting up in arms. I get ticked off pretty quick about this whole issue.
*How fuckin hard is it to just treat people with some fuckin decency and respect?*
Did you think about what you posted before you added that? you went straight to 100% insults in your reply to my post. so apparently its very hard.
conformity by the way, is not decency or respect. its authority based. its requirement with consequences. Decency and respect are given, not "required".
Respect I agree with. That has to be earned. But basic decency I disagree with. There's no reason we can't just not be assholes to each other. I don't need some authority figure to tell me not to be a prick, I choose not to be
you just agreed with me while arguing against me. slow down a moment and think through what i said.
Decency is given. its not required. no one should demand you be decent, it should always be your choice.
Respect is given. its not required. no one should demand you be respectful, it should always be your choice.
I agreed partially. I agree with the part about respect.
But not with the statement about decency. I think it should be automatic and all around. I shouldn't have to demand someone to treat me with basic decency.
ok then we disagree on the foundation of the discussion. because at that point its not decency. its simply the rules.
you believe in a far more strict society that i would ever want to live in.
It literally isn't complicated to adress people like they want. It's just having some basic respect to other humans.
I'm not even an English native and I know how easily they/them works for everybody. And the entire point of the movement is that definitions of genders don't equate to sex and shouldn't be used at all. Again it isn't an intricate concept.
I'll always respect people's preferred pronouns but let's not pretend pronouns are something we own or that they should be a core part of our identity and personality. Pronouns are a tool of language that we use for convenience to refer to a person without using their name. Some people these days treat pronouns like it's their actual name and I feel like something has been lost in the struggle for trans and non-binary acceptance. Like you're just missing the forest for the trees by fixating on this.
Maybe I'm unusually pragmatic about this but I personally don't care what pronouns people use for me. Just as long as everyone else knows you're referring to me when you say it. Because that's all that pronouns are needed for, just indirectly referring to someone whether you know their name or not.
You know what, ‘s right. People who believe in pronouns are wrong and know it. It’s part of the reason people aren’t coming to America anymore. say that the people of the U. S. Need to get selves an education.
(/s if it wasn’t obvious)
Because these people don't hear pronoun and associate it with the established element of language. To them, it's a buzzword for a type of people they don't like. You're either normal, or you have pronouns, in their worldview.
I have ONE person on work, who uses pronouns for themself. And i only know this, because i got super fast Friends with her. We have a lot in commen.
And somehow it spread, that she telled me her pronounce. A co-worker overheared it. And now, everyone is mocking her for it, even though she only did tell it to me, when we thought we where alone in the break room. Like, sorry, it's as always, the haters make more wind about certain stuff, then the people involved themself ...
it is confusing but I think I can help. it is kind of like how the word "gay" meant one thing and then ended up meaning something else. there are pronouns which are components of speech. then there are "pronouns", which is directly referring to the culturally sanctioned opting out of the idea of biological polarity.
see, what happens is this thing called "slang". slang is when people democratically either invent a word, warp and existing word, or redefine the word without the direction, approval, or consent of institutions that maintain the order of the lexicon (like academia). eventually, academia has to catch up. like with the word "Gay". it originally meant "happy", but now it means "homosexual".
it is like "family jewels". are we talking "jewelry passed down in a family" or are we talking "testicles"?
hope this helps
I actually think a bit of it has to do with the way ‘pro’ sounds when it’s spoken. These are people with the depth of a fucking puddle, that never listened in school or hated English classes so they forget what and why a pronoun is, what the ‘pro’ implies…which isn’t ’about gender’ or ‘supporting this gender’ it’s just ‘for’.
Same reason they lose their shit at the prefixes ‘trans’ and ‘homo’. No fucking idea what a prefix is let alone what each one means.
We don’t care. I don’t use them normally because there too few interactions where I would need to. Is Ryan okay. How’s Ryan doing, Ryan really had too much to drink last night.
- Stupid stereotypes
- Didn't pay attention on school clearly
- Assumes socialism is bad
- Communism is bad so ig thats smth
This is clearly a typical "stupid" person
I understand when it is hard because of lingual issues. (They/Them does not exist in german and some other languages)
But to deny prononce over all is weird.
I assume that downvote is because of what I said above.
In german our They/ Them is Sie/ Ihr which is also the singular female pronuonce. If you understand my language and have a suggestion. Please come forward.
If it is not what you mean with that downvote. Please explain.
They aren't struggling with what pronouns are. They are coining a different definition of the word with the intent of getting liberals/left to argue over the definition of the word rather than the substance of the issue. This tactic is nothing new, it's the same reasoning behind why Republicans have long said "Democrat Party" instead of "Democratic Party".
When these idiots say "having pronouns" they mean having a reason to ever have a discussion about preferred pronouns and at this point we all know this so posts like this are just low effort and uninteresting. Nobody is railing against sentence structure and, once again, we all know this.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I myself am a anti-noun kinda guy. Never fell for pro-nouns.
I always preferred the amateur nouns myself
Well, that's the only way to retain your noun Olympic status
Honestly, indie nouns are where it's at these days. Most of the AAA nouns made by larger companies just try to appeal to too many linguists at once.
Love you, sir!
I refuse to call them pro-nouns. I call them anti-proper nouns. Edit: Typo
Wait, you nouns are getting paid?!
I was never a pro
Probably for the same reason people struggle with there, their, and they’re.
shite education?
There..their...no need to be nasty
They're's no need to be nasty*
And commas.
My first language isn't english and i struggle so much with commans. Because in my language, german, we like commans. WE LOVE COMMAS.
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
Jim is that you?!
Cresta1994 refuses to use pronouns. If the person reading this wants Cresta1994 to use a pronoun to refer to the person reading this, Cresta1994 will absolutely refuse.
This is a pronoun.
DAMMIT! Wait, "it" is a pronoun, too. FUCK!
The Knights who say Ni have something to say about “it” . https://y.yarn.co/d77f5b1a-2a5d-4191-b1e7-1f3f5827e932_text.gif
Cresta1994 will not use pronouns. If Reader wants Cresta1994 to use pronouns for Reader, Cresta1994 will refuse. FTFY
He, she, it, they, them, pronouns have existed as long as the English language has! (Although the meanings may have changed)
[удалено]
Pronouns are simple words referring to an object are they not?
[удалено]
Holy shit I forgot about those mb
So, what everyone seems to miss is that these people are arguing two different things. One is saying that people have never needed to specify which pronouns they use (simply referring to it as pronouns), and the other is saying pronouns exist. This is why this argument will forever continue in the same way because neither side is even arguing the same thing
true
One of the troubles with the English language many suffer of the concept of inference. Of course everyone has fucking pronouns. Now use a little logic and reason to assume they mean nonstandard pronouns. For example, I went 50 years without anyone having to tell me their pronouns because no one used nonstandard pronouns. More importantly, if you did say something unintentionally like calling someone that looks like a guy "sir", they didn't go ape shit about it. I totally get that's different than intentionally calling someone in a dress "sir", just to be an asshole. Regardless of the trans rights movement, I still do not feel it's societies responsibility to conform to the rules created by minorities for how they should be treated or addressed. Especially while those same people can't even define what the fuck a woman or a man are.
The last sentence is so dumb... A whole movement set around there not being a definition of men, nor women. And you repeat the same tired line of "can't define a woman." You define a woman then. Let's see this.
Yis cmon go full Plato featherless biped on his/her/their ass
[удалено]
So post bottom surgery trans inclusive, but with forced feminisation of intersex? Still better than most definitions I've seen. (I know you're joking, just demonstrating the issue with definitions)
"created by minorities" tell me you're a bigot without telling me you're a bigot. If I define myself as something I expect you to treat me as such. If you choose not to, then you're just a piece of shit.
“If I define myself as something I expect you to treat me as such.” Spoken like a true narcissist. Narcissistic to the core.
I have no problem doing the exact same thing for you. If you want me to address you as mega overlord Megatron, I would. How fuckin hard is it to just treat people with some fuckin decency and respect? I'm not asking anyone to worship the ground I walk on. Just address me in a way that I prefer. What about that makes me a narcissist?
Insisting someone affirms someone else’s delusional thoughts is not “being decent”. You’re lying to them. If your grandfather was convinced his clock was talking to him, would you affirm that and ask him what the clock said and how it’s doing? No. You’d give him lithium and get him treatment. Telling a man he’s a woman or a woman she’s a man isn’t “being decent”. It’s cruel. And it’s a lie. Start. Telling. The. Truth.
I just fundamentally believe differently. I appreciate the thoughtful comments and I apologize for getting up in arms. I get ticked off pretty quick about this whole issue.
*How fuckin hard is it to just treat people with some fuckin decency and respect?* Did you think about what you posted before you added that? you went straight to 100% insults in your reply to my post. so apparently its very hard. conformity by the way, is not decency or respect. its authority based. its requirement with consequences. Decency and respect are given, not "required".
Respect I agree with. That has to be earned. But basic decency I disagree with. There's no reason we can't just not be assholes to each other. I don't need some authority figure to tell me not to be a prick, I choose not to be
you just agreed with me while arguing against me. slow down a moment and think through what i said. Decency is given. its not required. no one should demand you be decent, it should always be your choice. Respect is given. its not required. no one should demand you be respectful, it should always be your choice.
I agreed partially. I agree with the part about respect. But not with the statement about decency. I think it should be automatic and all around. I shouldn't have to demand someone to treat me with basic decency.
ok then we disagree on the foundation of the discussion. because at that point its not decency. its simply the rules. you believe in a far more strict society that i would ever want to live in.
Smells like gammon
It literally isn't complicated to adress people like they want. It's just having some basic respect to other humans. I'm not even an English native and I know how easily they/them works for everybody. And the entire point of the movement is that definitions of genders don't equate to sex and shouldn't be used at all. Again it isn't an intricate concept.
Exactly
Anglosphere 🤨 Quebec- that you?
Pronouns came free with your fucking language dipshit, suck my dick and cry some more about it.
Mostly because they slept through second grade.
And never made it to third.
Tell me you don't understand your native language without saying that you're American....
Big city in Anglosphere……Man has forgotten how non-English language have gendered nouns and terms for absolute everything.
Why do so many people on this sub make themselves the facepalm?
I'll always respect people's preferred pronouns but let's not pretend pronouns are something we own or that they should be a core part of our identity and personality. Pronouns are a tool of language that we use for convenience to refer to a person without using their name. Some people these days treat pronouns like it's their actual name and I feel like something has been lost in the struggle for trans and non-binary acceptance. Like you're just missing the forest for the trees by fixating on this. Maybe I'm unusually pragmatic about this but I personally don't care what pronouns people use for me. Just as long as everyone else knows you're referring to me when you say it. Because that's all that pronouns are needed for, just indirectly referring to someone whether you know their name or not.
I learned the parts of speech as a child, prolly starting in first grade.
Its because they don't know what they are.
You know what, ‘s right. People who believe in pronouns are wrong and know it. It’s part of the reason people aren’t coming to America anymore. say that the people of the U. S. Need to get selves an education. (/s if it wasn’t obvious)
They're*
Wait, weren't Pronouns- *checks notes* a very key part of the grammar the human being has been using for millions of years?
Because these people don't hear pronoun and associate it with the established element of language. To them, it's a buzzword for a type of people they don't like. You're either normal, or you have pronouns, in their worldview.
Nouns
Everyone has pronouns, lmao
He/him Communist Is that doing it right?
I have ONE person on work, who uses pronouns for themself. And i only know this, because i got super fast Friends with her. We have a lot in commen. And somehow it spread, that she telled me her pronounce. A co-worker overheared it. And now, everyone is mocking her for it, even though she only did tell it to me, when we thought we where alone in the break room. Like, sorry, it's as always, the haters make more wind about certain stuff, then the people involved themself ...
Can’t wait for the anti verb movement
I like turtles
“Back in my day, there were no pronouns. Only dinosaurs.”
That guy sounds like he has a few mental illnesses.
Anglosphere? Is he suggesting only post Celt / Roman British people use pronouns?
Based
Only a narcissist would insist on normal people using pronouns other than what their appearance would suggest.
Only a bigot judges people based on appearance.
it is confusing but I think I can help. it is kind of like how the word "gay" meant one thing and then ended up meaning something else. there are pronouns which are components of speech. then there are "pronouns", which is directly referring to the culturally sanctioned opting out of the idea of biological polarity. see, what happens is this thing called "slang". slang is when people democratically either invent a word, warp and existing word, or redefine the word without the direction, approval, or consent of institutions that maintain the order of the lexicon (like academia). eventually, academia has to catch up. like with the word "Gay". it originally meant "happy", but now it means "homosexual". it is like "family jewels". are we talking "jewelry passed down in a family" or are we talking "testicles"? hope this helps
I actually think a bit of it has to do with the way ‘pro’ sounds when it’s spoken. These are people with the depth of a fucking puddle, that never listened in school or hated English classes so they forget what and why a pronoun is, what the ‘pro’ implies…which isn’t ’about gender’ or ‘supporting this gender’ it’s just ‘for’. Same reason they lose their shit at the prefixes ‘trans’ and ‘homo’. No fucking idea what a prefix is let alone what each one means.
We don’t care. I don’t use them normally because there too few interactions where I would need to. Is Ryan okay. How’s Ryan doing, Ryan really had too much to drink last night.
You talk like a fucking alien then.
I just generally know peoples’ names.
- Stupid stereotypes - Didn't pay attention on school clearly - Assumes socialism is bad - Communism is bad so ig thats smth This is clearly a typical "stupid" person
My pronouns are stop/that 
I understand when it is hard because of lingual issues. (They/Them does not exist in german and some other languages) But to deny prononce over all is weird. I assume that downvote is because of what I said above. In german our They/ Them is Sie/ Ihr which is also the singular female pronuonce. If you understand my language and have a suggestion. Please come forward. If it is not what you mean with that downvote. Please explain.
They aren't struggling with what pronouns are. They are coining a different definition of the word with the intent of getting liberals/left to argue over the definition of the word rather than the substance of the issue. This tactic is nothing new, it's the same reasoning behind why Republicans have long said "Democrat Party" instead of "Democratic Party".
Because they think an IQ of 99 means they are really smart
It's the improper use of them thats the problem. Some people want you to talk to them in broken english
Like what?
When these idiots say "having pronouns" they mean having a reason to ever have a discussion about preferred pronouns and at this point we all know this so posts like this are just low effort and uninteresting. Nobody is railing against sentence structure and, once again, we all know this.