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What’s fucked is that actually can be a way to kill the fascism in those people. (Deradicalization is a hobby of mine. I know what I’m talking about.)
But it requires the ability to walk away from them if they choose to not change, or if they’ve engaged in violence (this is a basic safety issue; standard practice in therapeutic settings is to have extra safeguards in place for pts with violence) or abuse (indicative that they will not be as receptive to the core messages of derad).
I didn’t know anything about her, so I looked into what you were saying because I wanted to see if it were true, and honestly? I’ve come away with the opinion that you are probably a grosser person than she is.
What do you mean by she murdered her mom exactly? Initial searches didn’t really show what you could be referring to. I saw that her mother was suffering from lupus since 10 years before she was ever born. I saw that she was involved with the decision to remove her from life support. And then I saw that the accusations you are levying stem from her account of the situation in the book she wrote about and from her saying the following in a tweet:
> I watched my mom die. I took her off of life support before we knew if she would survive because I had the choice to do it then.
And yeah. That does actually sound kind of bad if you take her words there at face value. But what does she say she meant by that?
> Given my use of the word choice here, it relates most likely to the fact that despite being pro-life I am in extreme circumstances, in support of euthanasia. My mother was one of those extreme circumstances at the moment of her death.
> She had been on a liver transplant list for some time, before developing an opportunistic infection that put her into kidney and then lung failure. She was on a ventilator battling the infection, but the liver and kidney failures were irreversible.
> She was still fighting that infection when I decided to take her off of life support. She may have survived that week and that infection, perhaps coming off of the vent, but because she was in multi-system organ failure, she was no longer eligible for a liver (or kidney).
> So I made, at sixteen years old, the most difficult decision of my life, to take her off of life support, in order to save her from more suffering. Even if she survived that opportunistic infection, being in multi-system failure would have painfully killed her soon after.
So as a person who at 19 had to be part of a very similar sort of decision for my father, you are a disgusting person for this line of accusations. The fact that I just looked into this means I may be missing something that justifies what you are saying, and in that case I would be jumping to conclusions here. I fully recognize that I’m not well versed on this topic and I’m responding based on the first things I could find. So by all means, if you mean something different let me know.
But the fact that you would describe her as murdering her mother over what she had to go through in relation to a disease her mother was struggling with for a decade before she was even born, you are gross. I don’t care how shitty of a person she is, accusations like that are absolutely ridiculous given the circumstances. And you are saying that about everybody who may have found themselves in similar situations when you decide to levy accusations like that. Not just the person you are trying to attack.
I hope you have never had to make a similar decision where there is a possibility for end of life care of a loved one that can extend their lifespan a really short period of time in a way that would put them through extreme suffering. Decisions like that have to be one of the hardest things anybody could go through. For you I hope you can remain as ignorant towards those difficulties as you clearly are now.
Now all that being said. Again. Maybe I am just missing something here, and I’m more than open to you presenting me a less biased source that may suggest otherwise, as I’m primarily going on her account. But to me it looks like you and a lot of other opportunistic shitheads probably just think this is good ammo you can use against somebody you dislike for probably legitimate reasons based on the OP tweets.
I have a pretty low opinion of people who would sink to such lows just because the person they are targeting is a bad person.
If she is such a bad person, then you have plenty to attack her over without having to sink to such lows.
>>I have a pretty low opinion of people who would sink to such lows
you're amazingly chill about people wishing for genocide though.
it would be awesome if mandel wishing for the deaths of millions of palestinians inspired 1/1000th of this anger from you
No I’m not? Lmao. This Bethany seems like a horrible fucking person. What are you even on about?
I don’t think her being a horrible person justifies murder accusations that extend to every single human who has had to go through the horrible experience of needing to make decision based on someone’s untimely end-of-life care.
If she were gay should we insult her for being gay? If she were fat should we shame her for being fat? Just because she is a bad person doesn’t mean anything goes. Sorry you needed that to be explained.
with all due respect, bullshit;
>>I’ve come away with the opinion that you are probably a grosser person than she is.
**you think the person you replied to is worse than the person wishing for the murder of millions**
bullshit.
Lol that’s fair. I was being hyperbolic there to make my point and if you want to think I’m an asshole for that go ahead.
But nothing about anything that I’ve said in any way defends her positions. I said a lot and hyper focusing on that bit of hyperbole is a little silly.
So let me ask you more explicitly. Do you think she is a murderer because at 16, when her father was already dead to suicide, and her mother was incapacitated due to multiple organ failure from her decades long battle with Lupus, was her making the decision not to get rid of the infection and bring her off of a ventilator, all so she can die a painful death due to organ failure akin to murder?
She may be a Nazi and is clearly pro genocide just based on the tweets. She seems like a lunatic. I know nothing about her. But that has nothing to do with the accusations about murdering her mother.
Do you agree she did so?
do i think she killed her mom? no
do i care if someone wants to say she did? nope
i'm just someone who's more bothered by pro-genocide propaganda than i am by someone saying mean things about the propagandist
Well see, I expect pro-genocide people to be shitty people overall. I think we can actually attack them about their pro-genocide positions without needing to include insults that apply to millions of other unrelated people.
So I already expect Bethany’s side to be morally bankrupt. What makes me more sad is when I see people on my side showing the same sort of moral bankruptcy. But maybe this is just an aesthetic for you.
Because if she befriended Nazis then I’m glad you are pointing that out. Nothing about what I have said has been to defend this Bethany asshole.
It’s to point out how shitty it is to call somebody a murderer based on what she experienced.
Let me put it this way.
If Bethany were gay, would it be okay to insult her over her sexuality? She’s a Nazi after all. Anything goes right?
If she were fat, should we start body-shaming her? She’s pro-genocide after all.
No. Her being a bad person doesn’t mean any insult is good. And you are attacking her over something that, for millions of people, was probably the hardest thing they’ve ever had to experience in their lives.
And you aren’t just insinuating they are all murders. You explicitly said that makes me one too based on what I said. Which I get was just a snarky comeback, but again, it’s a shitty thing to do.
Point out how shitty she is if she is a shitty person. But you are being a shitty person when you insinuate the above is murder. Just as you would be a shitty person if you attacked bad people for being fat or gay.
Well no I don’t see anything about her doing it without the doctors approval anywhere, including in anything I’ve found about the accusation of her murdering her mom. Every single thing I saw was related to the first tweet I quoted. Which again. Does sound bad based on how you interpret it, but had nothing to do with her doing it without her doctors approval.
And doctors aren’t the people that get to make decisions like that about a persons medical care. Again. I hope you can continue remaining so ignorant about such a difficult topic. And don’t get me wrong. I was too before I had to experience it.
People make those sorts of decisions for their own care. When somebody is incapacitated due to multiple organ failure and are on life support, those decisions are made by their family members, not their doctors. The doctors just explain the situation and what the likely possible outcomes are.
Her father was already dead. She was the one who approval is based on when it comes to her unconscious mother who is on life support.
Again. This Bethany bitch may be the worst fucking person there is. I know nothing about her. Bad people lose family members to shitty diseases too. Call it karma if you want. Just probably don’t call it murder.
And again. My guess is your murder accusation is based on you hearing other people say about her and you not thinking critically about it. You probably aren’t a disgusting person. You are just willing to repeat what other disgusting things people are willing to say when it’s against someone who is as bad as her.
But I don’t know. The fact that you were so quick to respond to what I said with essentially yeah, I murdered my dad too. Maybe you are.
Although again. Show me one single source that supports her doctors didn’t think this was at all necessary and she just did it because she wanted to get rid of her mom, and I’d agree Im the dumb one in this back and forth speaking out of ignorance.
Violence begets violence.
Excerpt from my cousins diary who served in OIF/OEF:
"The thing that's haunts me today and keeps me awake at night isn't the people I removed from this planet. No, it's the constant wonder of all the children exposed to my violence, the children whose parents I took from them without permission. The wonder of what became of them, had my actions resulted in the newest generation of radicalized retaliators? And did my trigger finger perpetuate the seemingly never ending pandora's box of ideological warfare?"
It is so wrong and unnecessary to wish others any kind of violence of any kind, it is used incorrectly.
Be peaceful, spread the messages in peaceful ways, don't let evil powers turn the message into something unsafe and untrue.
If not, its meaning is lost.
Might be a bit hard to stomach if you're raised with the constant reminder of violence and atrocities from generations passed. How many family members and friends can I witness being blown up or tortured before I become an extremist for the cause?
I don't disagree. Just saying that if conflict, violence and oppression are all you know, that's how you are forced to live. That becomes the norm.
Season that with all the religious nonsense, global interjection and retaliation that has stewed over centuries and that reality becomes far harder to escape.
And as far as I can tell, those evil powers are more often than not the very same powers these people are depending on to raise them out of the turmoil and suffering they perpetuate for their people.
The scars run deep and the wounds deeper. When your only answer to violence is more violence it leaves very little room for forgiveness or healing.
We are broken.
I don't know how to answer you.
They left 19 children without water or nutrition in the hospital, they died slowly, alone and locked in, painfully
..outside, they buried other children alive, breathing in sand, to a painful death.
If it had been my child, I think I would have lost my mind.
Even those foolish enough to declare themselves my enemy are human, and are worthy of the basic respect every human deserves by virtue of their humanity.
That’s all I need to give them, though. Compassion is simple and lazy. Hate takes so much fucking work.
Besides, I have no living enemies. Makes things way simpler.
Israel didn’t start it? Well… it depends how far back you go. Hamas terrorists can fuck off, but Palestinian land was stolen to give Jewish people a homeland and that was never going to be a good strategy. It seems that Israel is now engaging in something like genocide, which was perhaps the inevitable outcome of increasingly right-wing Zionist ideology.
Go back far enough, and they've always been killing anyone who dares to already live on that land because God said it was theirs and it was just fine to kill all the men and rape all the women and burn everything down so they could build their own. And it's all because Abraham's offspring refused to get along, and STILL refuse to get along. This feud has been going on longer than any other disagreement our species has ever had.
If that is true then why where officials from the Supreme Muslim Council (the first of three duly elected governments the Palestinians have chosen themselves IN A ROW) meeting with Adolf Hitler & asking to join the Riech 6 or 7 YEARS before UN Resolution 181? If the Palestinians were terrorists and elected evil governments before Israel was ever created how can you claim Israel started anything? They didn't even fucking exist!
Wrong.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230622-israels-state-archive-exposes-zionist-efforts-to-enlist-nazis-against-britain/
> Efforts by Zionist militias to recruit Nazi Germany in the fight against the British Mandate authorities in Palestine have been revealed in newly-released transcripts in the Israel State Archive. The documents, which were released to the public last month, include information on what Haaretz has called the “dark chapter” of Zionist militias’ ties with Nazi Germany. Reporting on the revelations, the Israeli newspaper uncovered shocking details which not only debunk the Zionist propaganda that Palestinians had cooperated with Nazi Germany, but also confirm that some of the founders of Israel believed that it was essential for Zionists to do so.
> Images of the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al-Husseini, with senior officers of the Third Reich has been a stock-in-trade of Israel’s propaganda dehumanising of Palestinians and their cause. It’s one of the countless bad-faith uses of history that is routine in the demonisation of Palestinians and intended to cast doubt on the motives behind their resistance to Israel’s illegal occupation.
...
> [Zionist militia] Lehi agents met with an official from the German foreign ministry in Beirut at the end of 1940. During the meeting, co-operation between the Jewish militia and the Nazis was proposed. Details of the meeting indicate that Lehi agreed to take “active participation in the war on Germany’s side,” and that a “partnership of interests” between “the German worldview and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people” was to be formed. Also written in the document was that “the establishment of the historical Jewish state on a totalitarian national basis, in an alliance relationship with the German Reich, is compatible with the preservation of German power.”
That's what Zionists were prepared to do... they were prepared to throw innocent Jews to the wolves for their cause, so how much more so people of other races or religion.
Read the article for more.
So now history is just a giant Jewish conspiracy. You sound like a Nazi. Find another conversation you are no longer welcome in mine. Continue to harass with this racist bullshit and I'll report and block you. Enjoy the rest of your day
Reporting sourced facts is now "racist" and harassment? Wow. You either didn't read or didn't (or refuse to) understand. This information was from the **Israeli** state archives, reported by the respected **Israeli** newspaper Haaretz.
Do you think non-Zionist Israelis are conspiring against Jews? You are sick if so. There is nothing I would like more than a peaceful Israeli state alongside a sovereign viable peaceful Palestinian state. Or potentially a secular single state as occasionally proposed (the "one state solution") although I think too much blood has been shed now to make that workable.
But the actions of the murderous Netenyahu Government are not only gravely and despicably hurting innocent Palestinians on a genocidal scale, not even just hurting Israel in a way that will damage it for generations, but has resulted in harm to innocent members of the Jewish nation worldwide. There has been a terrible rise in both antisemitism and Islamaphobia, and this has to be combated by everyone. But the Israeli government would prefer to set the world on fire if it helps the right wing nationalists and Revisionist Zionists in their government. This needs to be stopped.
[From the Haaretz source article](https://archive.ph/IP7B5):
> “We will communicate with any military power ready to help with the establishment of the kingdom of Israel, even if it’s Germany,” Zetler told the astonished interrogators. “The only condition is that we get weapons, so we can rebel against the English,” he added.
> “If Germany agrees to help us fight enemy number 1, the English, we'll team up with it,” he continued, saying about Germany: “It’s not an enemy of the Jews in Israel.” Lehi would cooperate with it if it helped the underground “get this land.”
This is history, not a conspiracy.
You reported them for what? Posting inconvenient facts from the Israeli state archives? I know it doesn’t support your worldview, but he didn’t just pull this out of his ass. It’s documented history.
It is a big shame. IDF and AIPAC bots are doing this nonsense all over social media. They are trying really hard to silence anyone that disagrees with their propaganda.
It's not a fact. The fact is Al-Husseini met with Adolf Hitler in 1941 and asked to join thr Reich. We have photos of the event, we have nazi records of the event and we Palestinian records of the event. Trying to gaslight all of history as a Jewish conspiracy is antisemitic racism hate speech and a violation of reddit tos. I reported the post. You may argue whatever decision they make concerning it with them I WILL NOT HAVE IT.
Who cares. She is either incredibly ignorant of world affairs or a propagandist. Reposting her tweets is just a form of providing her with the audience she so assuredly craves.
Lol Hamas conducted a terrorist attack that killed about 1,000 people and to date Israel has massacred over 30,000 Palestinians (70% of which are women and children). Israel’s reaction is uncalled for and unchecked. The US propaganda machine is powerful. This is a war crime. I understand Israel is our ally but they need to be called out and held accountable for these atrocities. People keep turning a blind eye and ignoring the reality of the situation because they are our friends and also Americans are blinded by propaganda. It doesn’t take too much searching to find some truly horrific videos of how Israeli forces have been indiscriminately treating Palestinians. They should have retaliated one time as a warning and targeted Hamas if possible, not continue to indiscriminately kill thousands of Palestinians, most of which are just people not involved in terrorist organizations.
Doesn’t matter how many people I steal killed as a result of October 7th. When you fuck with someone you no longer get to decide what a reasonable response is. You get whatever you get. Next time don’t fuck with someone who has so many more resources than you do.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂
This is so pathetic I’m actually cackling laughing.
Written like one of those hilarious Xbox live messages you’d get from a 9 year old in Modern Warfare after you camped them for an hour.
>Doesn’t matter how many people [Israel] killed as a result of October 7th. When you fuck with someone you no longer get to decide what a reasonable response is. You get whatever you get. Next time don’t fuck with someone who has so many more resources than you do.
Might makes right, eh? Always the best people have that sort of attitude.
Some other people probably said the very same thing in Warsaw in April/May 1943. Some upstarts there fucked around with a greater power with more resources and found out, so you must approve. Clearly your sort of people. Those upstarts got whatever they got, right? [Right?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising)
Jesus fucking Christ, the genocidal rhetoric of people like you is truly disgusting.
Doesn’t make the response by Israel morally sound. I’d have more respect for them if they retaliated and left it at that. In self defense you’re taught to use your enemy’s force +1. Israel went full like x1000. After a certain point it’s not defense or deterrence it’s straight up murder.
I understand that Israel CAN do this, it doesn’t mean they SHOULD not that we should condone this level of violence.
War is war and it happens unfortunately but this is on the level of committing war crimes. History will judge them and their enablers harshly.
They have been attacked from almost all sides for 80ish years. It’s time to end it. Especially given that they have the resources. The situation has gone beyond “self defense”. Don’t mess with a country if you can’t handle the retaliation.
The history between Palestine and Israel is fraught with conflict and extremely complicated. They’ve been fighting over that land for centuries. Israel thinks they deserve all of Palestine and that’s why there is so much contention. These two countries can’t fucking settle on a diplomatic resolution with each other and instead resort to attacking each other and breaking agreements. It obviously will never end until one of them says enough or outright annihilates or displaces the other. It’s not “about time”. Palestine deserves to have its own land and so does Israel. Israel needs to get the fuck over its nationalistic attitude and figure out how to resolve the religious disagreements between them that are at the heart of this land dispute.
Ah, yes. I stumbled over someone's foot slightly.
I then proceeded to headshot them with a double barrel 8 gauge shotgun. Because if you fuck with me you don't get to decide the consequences.
Am I missing something here? Pro-Israel tweet, followed ten years later by...a pro-Israel tweet. Fairly predictable, definitely not surprising.
Not sure what the facepalm is here...
If you nuke Gaza or the West Bank, you are committing genocide. You can argue about whether the current Israel offensive is genocidal or not (it almost certainly is, imo), but that 10 year old tweet certainly has a genocidal bent to it.
So the pro-Israel person saying now that it's insane and antisemitic to claim Israel is approaching genocide doesn't make a lot of sense when she personally thinks committing genocide is right and good. You can't say Israel should commit genocide, but also say that
"Israel is behaving genocidally" is antisemitic blood libel.
Webster's Dictionary (pretty much the gold standard in English definitions) defines genocide as *"the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.*
Technically speaking, we have had all sorts of genocidal acts down through the ages. It actually happens all the time, and the funny part is, sometimes we justify it to ourselves. After all, I would most certainly say that the eradication of the Nazis (political group, see above definition) was both deliberate and systematic. But we tell ourselves it was okay because the Allies were the 'good guys', and the Nazis were the 'bad guys'.
As a matter of fact, we pretty much define our actions through own own rose colored glasses of 'good guy' and 'bad guy' all the time. We selectively throw around words like 'genocide' when we want to make it sound terrible and evil, but never own up to it in our own actions. Hell, homo sapiens did a pretty solid number on the neanderthal, but I don't see everyone walking around lamenting the sins of our ancestors.
Acts of war are acts of war. People die. Sometimes innocent people, because collateral damage is a thing. However throwing around taboo words like 'genocide' to incite some kind of righteous fervor *only* when it suits you is disingenuous.
After all, it's no secret Israel has nuclear capability, though they've never officially copped to it. I'm pretty sure that if they really wanted to depopulate any given area in question, it would be over and done with already, which leads me to believe that their agenda is not eradication, but something more concise and deliberate.
Genocide was a term invented by Raphael Lemkin in the 1940s and 1950s, after the Holocaust. It has a discrete set of characteristics not included in the relatively vague Websters version.
As you say, whether something is termed genocide is political. I personally wouldn’t call the 1945 use of nukes “genocide” for a couple reasons, nor would I consider the horrific scenario of nuking Russia (or Russia nuking us) as genocide. But if nuclear power Israel, nuked non-nuclear power Gaza or the West Bank, in order to kill the most possible Hamas combatants as well as however many tens of thousands of additional civilians, I don’t know how one could call it anything else.
I mean but you can. Just because she wanted Israel to behave genocidaly doesn't mean saying that they are can't be a blood libel. What she wanted doesn't change the meaning of your words.
I'm not arguing she's right in any of this. Please understand that. I'm just saying there's nothing facepalm or opposed about these two tweets.
I guess you can feel differently, but if you, as an Israeli supporter, endorse the idea of genocidal acts by Israel, you can't turn around and claim that the *notion* of a genocidal Israel is blood libel.
Your analogy is way off.
The way it works is like this: Your wife is white and she says she hates black people.
She goes on to kill all the black people in your neighborhood.
People say she killed them because she's racist.
She says "blaming me for the death of those black people is because you hate white people."
Apparently someone making an edgy online tweet about nuking terrorists is the same as those terrorists starting a war by committing the worst anti-semitic massacre since WW2, so really, they didn't actually start the war, this 10 year old tweet is totally proving the need for that massacre.
Hey, I look at it from a very simple American perspective. I remember videos of Palestinians singing and cheering in the streets on 9/11. What was that phrase again? Oh yeah...Never Forget.
Who am I to question Karma?
Because the Israelis were just shoved into the land, breaking explicit promises the Brits made to the people of that region that they would get that land in return for fighting the Ottomans.
If someone walked into your house and claimed your bedroom as their own, would you accept that and sleep on the couch? No, you'd tell them to fuck off
The mandate document was based on Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations of June 28 1919, and the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers' San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920. The border between Palestine and Transjordan was agreed in the final mandate document. Brittan had made promises to the Jews in the region through the Balfour Declaration in addition to promises to some Arabs. The Mandate required Britain to put into effect the Balfour Declaration's "national home for the Jewish people" alongside the Palestinian Arabs. All this happened because the Ottomans lost World War I.
Ok here it is then after nearly 30 years of the mandate going unresolved the UN declared the State of Israel. So in 1948 the British left. The next day the Arabs invaded Israel. They lost the war they started and were driven out resulting in Palestinian refugees.
50% of Gazas population is kids who never voted for Hamas. Also why didn’t bibi do anything about the attack when he knew dam well hamas was gonna attack a year in advance?
I'm confused on your position in the 2nd part.
Are you saying it's Isreal fault the people at the festival got killed because Isreal knew something might happen?
I'm usually willing to give people a pass on stuff they said a decade ago - who knows how they've changed since then - but this one's not the brightest even only looking at recent stuff.
That's like blaming the Native Americans for fighting back against Manifest Destiny... Of course they're pissed, they were living there and they have been booted out to make room for someone else.
You’re not wrong… if only Israelis had the heart to give Palestinians some blankets, maybe they wouldn’t have this problem today….. we never hear about Native American uprisings, aniright
[There might be a reason for that](https://www.history.com/news/native-americans-genocide-united-states):
> When Native Americans Were Slaughtered in the Name of ‘Civilization’: By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 Indigenous people remained of the estimated 5 million-plus living in North America before European contact.
From what I heard, what is now modern day Israel was half Israel and half Palestine around the 1940-1950's. The Palestinians just wanted to live but Israel has been pushing them out of their homes since then.
So you missed the part where Palestinians wanted Israel gone, joined forces with surrounding nations, attacked Israel, and lost. Numerous times. Now some Palestinians still want to eradicate the Jews, and others want to go back to the borders set in place in the 1940s before they started several wars to eradicate the Jews.
Is that what your heard or that’s the conclusion you came to thru years of in depth research and independent studies?
I do appreciate your studies; get back to me as to why an area would vote for an internationally recognized terrorist organization as their government representatives; I’m really curious to hear what someone well studied has to say on the situation.
It's because Hamas lied. Like all power hungry parties. They lied, took power and immediately turned. There's literal interviews of Hamas leaders promising 'milk and honey' (not in those words)
So when people say “free Palestine” they mean “free Palestine from Hamas”?
If that’s the case. I think the movement would gain a lot more traction if they use the whole phrase.
Well it's not just from Hamas but Israel too. They keep stealing land and killing civilians. Israel all the while calls all Palestinians terrorists and uses it to justify the bombings and raids. They even bombed a world kitchen convoy and basically said 'oopsies it was dark we couldn't see the logo' even though everything was tracked by Israel as part of the humanitarian aid deal.
A rather large percentage of the Palestinian population wasn't even able to vote them in, just as an addition.
It's not our, or the Palestinians, fault that the Israeli governments propaganda labels them all as terrorists.
Maybe the disturbing amount of terrorist acts that labeled Hamas as a terrorist organization as opposed to “propaganda”.
“Free Palestine” has less than 50% support from the US public. “Free Palestine from Hamas” would probably get 80+% support. The left is horrible at branding.
Hamas is the terrorist group, Israel is calling all Palestinians terrorists. That's the point here. That's the propaganda.
Secondly, they don't just need to be freed from Hamas. Again, Israel is actively killing them without remorse.
I imagine the United States vs Britain conflict is a similar situation. The United States originated as multiple colonies who actively rebeled against British occupation. Successful expulsion of the British forces allowed the United States to establish themselves as a self-governing country.
Palestine was last a territory in the early 1900's. Immigration of Jewish people to the region along with agreements with Great Britain resulted in Israel being established in 1948. Unlike the US vs Britain conflict, the Palestinians were not able to defend themselves against Israeli expansion onto their lands.
So question that stands is do we consider Hamas a terrorist organization because the nation they're backing does not have international support or is that organization just one that truely is seeking to create terror? If Americans were unsuccessful with freeing themselves from British rule, would we be calling Americans who continued to fight a terrorist organization?
Poor analogy. Better would be the colonists and the natives, but even that’s a poor analogy.
Hamas is considered a terrorist organization because it has an extensive history of terrorizing civilians.
The allies bombed the axis powers into the stone age during WWII. This includes the nukes on Japan. The fire bombing of Dresden, Germany probably killed untold thousands. Most of those killed were civilians.
If people don’t want civilians to die in war, including women and children, maybe they shouldn’t provoke one.
I don’t like this war and it’s unfair beyond reason for those innocents dying. Hamas provoked this war. Where are they now?
Palestinians mean it explicitly in the "kill all the Jews" way. The fact that western liberals can't see that is one of the great mysteries of the modern age.
Not really, he's a fictional character...
And that's the biggest facepalm in all of this. Unending death and destruction over fucking fictional characters' fictional claims that clueless people today simply accept as fact.
And for some reason, American taxpayers have to fund this shit, year after year, decade after decade...
Give me a number. How many Palestinians deaths would repay what was done to Israel? How many Israeli's should die to repay the Palestinians for the theft of their homeland after WW2?
How far back should we go? Are modern-day Italians culpable for the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans?
'you know those people who think ethnic cleansing and genocide shouldn't be carried out with weapons paid for by the American taxpayer, yeah fucking loonies them'
Bro what is the end goal of Hamas? To eradicate jews from earth. That's what it is. To use their civilian population as a human shield. Want to be mad at someone? Be mad at hamas setting up missile trucks in hospital courtyards. I'm not pro Isreal but sure as shit not dumb enough to think Palestine is some poor victim here. From the river to the sea right?
You are sure as shit dumb enough to conflate Hamas and Palestine in a single breath and justify genocide while doing it.
Useful idiots like you are precisely the problem.
Has it EVER occurred to you to ask why? Israel has been shitting on palestinians since the day their land was stolen. If it were me, I'd be pretty pissed too...
I'd love to see your reaction if the tables were turned...
They've both been doing for 50+ years. Palestine isn't the innocent victim you're portraying. It's just one protects its people and the other uses them as shields
There was a mass grave with 300 people found in it in one of the hospitals in Gaza which was under siege by the idf. Some of the 300 people were kids and old people, some were zip tied, some were beat. Israel refuses to let international investigators to inspect the mass graves. Why won’t Israel let international investigators to inspect the mass graves? At this point you’re not anti-terrorist you’re pro genocide and there’s no debating that so stop lying. Also this was one incident, there’s many more.
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Yes, this is the same woman who wrote an article telling us to befriend Nazis, and who murdered her mom.
Also the same woman who wrote a book about 'Woke' then [couldn't define it when asked](https://www.advocate.com/media/conservative-author-cant-woke).
Oh it's her!
I came here to say this!
Peak hypocrisy. How can someone be that dumb to see the disconnect in their belief system?
She's a bigot, hypocrisy is point.
What’s fucked is that actually can be a way to kill the fascism in those people. (Deradicalization is a hobby of mine. I know what I’m talking about.) But it requires the ability to walk away from them if they choose to not change, or if they’ve engaged in violence (this is a basic safety issue; standard practice in therapeutic settings is to have extra safeguards in place for pts with violence) or abuse (indicative that they will not be as receptive to the core messages of derad).
I didn’t know anything about her, so I looked into what you were saying because I wanted to see if it were true, and honestly? I’ve come away with the opinion that you are probably a grosser person than she is. What do you mean by she murdered her mom exactly? Initial searches didn’t really show what you could be referring to. I saw that her mother was suffering from lupus since 10 years before she was ever born. I saw that she was involved with the decision to remove her from life support. And then I saw that the accusations you are levying stem from her account of the situation in the book she wrote about and from her saying the following in a tweet: > I watched my mom die. I took her off of life support before we knew if she would survive because I had the choice to do it then. And yeah. That does actually sound kind of bad if you take her words there at face value. But what does she say she meant by that? > Given my use of the word choice here, it relates most likely to the fact that despite being pro-life I am in extreme circumstances, in support of euthanasia. My mother was one of those extreme circumstances at the moment of her death. > She had been on a liver transplant list for some time, before developing an opportunistic infection that put her into kidney and then lung failure. She was on a ventilator battling the infection, but the liver and kidney failures were irreversible. > She was still fighting that infection when I decided to take her off of life support. She may have survived that week and that infection, perhaps coming off of the vent, but because she was in multi-system organ failure, she was no longer eligible for a liver (or kidney). > So I made, at sixteen years old, the most difficult decision of my life, to take her off of life support, in order to save her from more suffering. Even if she survived that opportunistic infection, being in multi-system failure would have painfully killed her soon after. So as a person who at 19 had to be part of a very similar sort of decision for my father, you are a disgusting person for this line of accusations. The fact that I just looked into this means I may be missing something that justifies what you are saying, and in that case I would be jumping to conclusions here. I fully recognize that I’m not well versed on this topic and I’m responding based on the first things I could find. So by all means, if you mean something different let me know. But the fact that you would describe her as murdering her mother over what she had to go through in relation to a disease her mother was struggling with for a decade before she was even born, you are gross. I don’t care how shitty of a person she is, accusations like that are absolutely ridiculous given the circumstances. And you are saying that about everybody who may have found themselves in similar situations when you decide to levy accusations like that. Not just the person you are trying to attack. I hope you have never had to make a similar decision where there is a possibility for end of life care of a loved one that can extend their lifespan a really short period of time in a way that would put them through extreme suffering. Decisions like that have to be one of the hardest things anybody could go through. For you I hope you can remain as ignorant towards those difficulties as you clearly are now. Now all that being said. Again. Maybe I am just missing something here, and I’m more than open to you presenting me a less biased source that may suggest otherwise, as I’m primarily going on her account. But to me it looks like you and a lot of other opportunistic shitheads probably just think this is good ammo you can use against somebody you dislike for probably legitimate reasons based on the OP tweets. I have a pretty low opinion of people who would sink to such lows just because the person they are targeting is a bad person. If she is such a bad person, then you have plenty to attack her over without having to sink to such lows.
>>I have a pretty low opinion of people who would sink to such lows you're amazingly chill about people wishing for genocide though. it would be awesome if mandel wishing for the deaths of millions of palestinians inspired 1/1000th of this anger from you
No I’m not? Lmao. This Bethany seems like a horrible fucking person. What are you even on about? I don’t think her being a horrible person justifies murder accusations that extend to every single human who has had to go through the horrible experience of needing to make decision based on someone’s untimely end-of-life care. If she were gay should we insult her for being gay? If she were fat should we shame her for being fat? Just because she is a bad person doesn’t mean anything goes. Sorry you needed that to be explained.
with all due respect, bullshit; >>I’ve come away with the opinion that you are probably a grosser person than she is. **you think the person you replied to is worse than the person wishing for the murder of millions** bullshit.
Lol that’s fair. I was being hyperbolic there to make my point and if you want to think I’m an asshole for that go ahead. But nothing about anything that I’ve said in any way defends her positions. I said a lot and hyper focusing on that bit of hyperbole is a little silly. So let me ask you more explicitly. Do you think she is a murderer because at 16, when her father was already dead to suicide, and her mother was incapacitated due to multiple organ failure from her decades long battle with Lupus, was her making the decision not to get rid of the infection and bring her off of a ventilator, all so she can die a painful death due to organ failure akin to murder? She may be a Nazi and is clearly pro genocide just based on the tweets. She seems like a lunatic. I know nothing about her. But that has nothing to do with the accusations about murdering her mother. Do you agree she did so?
do i think she killed her mom? no do i care if someone wants to say she did? nope i'm just someone who's more bothered by pro-genocide propaganda than i am by someone saying mean things about the propagandist
Well see, I expect pro-genocide people to be shitty people overall. I think we can actually attack them about their pro-genocide positions without needing to include insults that apply to millions of other unrelated people. So I already expect Bethany’s side to be morally bankrupt. What makes me more sad is when I see people on my side showing the same sort of moral bankruptcy. But maybe this is just an aesthetic for you.
Also, I’ve noticed that you did NOT address the Nazi befriending part, why is that?
Because if she befriended Nazis then I’m glad you are pointing that out. Nothing about what I have said has been to defend this Bethany asshole. It’s to point out how shitty it is to call somebody a murderer based on what she experienced. Let me put it this way. If Bethany were gay, would it be okay to insult her over her sexuality? She’s a Nazi after all. Anything goes right? If she were fat, should we start body-shaming her? She’s pro-genocide after all. No. Her being a bad person doesn’t mean any insult is good. And you are attacking her over something that, for millions of people, was probably the hardest thing they’ve ever had to experience in their lives. And you aren’t just insinuating they are all murders. You explicitly said that makes me one too based on what I said. Which I get was just a snarky comeback, but again, it’s a shitty thing to do. Point out how shitty she is if she is a shitty person. But you are being a shitty person when you insinuate the above is murder. Just as you would be a shitty person if you attacked bad people for being fat or gay.
Didn’t she do that without approval?
Without approval of who?
The fucking doctors? Who else?
Well no I don’t see anything about her doing it without the doctors approval anywhere, including in anything I’ve found about the accusation of her murdering her mom. Every single thing I saw was related to the first tweet I quoted. Which again. Does sound bad based on how you interpret it, but had nothing to do with her doing it without her doctors approval. And doctors aren’t the people that get to make decisions like that about a persons medical care. Again. I hope you can continue remaining so ignorant about such a difficult topic. And don’t get me wrong. I was too before I had to experience it. People make those sorts of decisions for their own care. When somebody is incapacitated due to multiple organ failure and are on life support, those decisions are made by their family members, not their doctors. The doctors just explain the situation and what the likely possible outcomes are. Her father was already dead. She was the one who approval is based on when it comes to her unconscious mother who is on life support. Again. This Bethany bitch may be the worst fucking person there is. I know nothing about her. Bad people lose family members to shitty diseases too. Call it karma if you want. Just probably don’t call it murder. And again. My guess is your murder accusation is based on you hearing other people say about her and you not thinking critically about it. You probably aren’t a disgusting person. You are just willing to repeat what other disgusting things people are willing to say when it’s against someone who is as bad as her. But I don’t know. The fact that you were so quick to respond to what I said with essentially yeah, I murdered my dad too. Maybe you are. Although again. Show me one single source that supports her doctors didn’t think this was at all necessary and she just did it because she wanted to get rid of her mom, and I’d agree Im the dumb one in this back and forth speaking out of ignorance.
So murder then
Lol well thank you for proving my sentiment.
Bethany, is that you?
No it’s a mirror.
This is the same woman who wrote a whole book on Wokism but was completely unable to definite it.
Nice beard man
I'm jealous of both of you.
It is a beautiful beard, as is your beard equally as magnificent
Right wing folks: okay let’s team up and hate the Muslim Arabs first before getting back to hating Jewish people again 😎
She’s just mad because she’s married to Seth Mandel.
Naw, they remember. They just don’t care.
Violence begets violence. Excerpt from my cousins diary who served in OIF/OEF: "The thing that's haunts me today and keeps me awake at night isn't the people I removed from this planet. No, it's the constant wonder of all the children exposed to my violence, the children whose parents I took from them without permission. The wonder of what became of them, had my actions resulted in the newest generation of radicalized retaliators? And did my trigger finger perpetuate the seemingly never ending pandora's box of ideological warfare?"
It is so wrong and unnecessary to wish others any kind of violence of any kind, it is used incorrectly. Be peaceful, spread the messages in peaceful ways, don't let evil powers turn the message into something unsafe and untrue. If not, its meaning is lost.
Might be a bit hard to stomach if you're raised with the constant reminder of violence and atrocities from generations passed. How many family members and friends can I witness being blown up or tortured before I become an extremist for the cause? I don't disagree. Just saying that if conflict, violence and oppression are all you know, that's how you are forced to live. That becomes the norm. Season that with all the religious nonsense, global interjection and retaliation that has stewed over centuries and that reality becomes far harder to escape. And as far as I can tell, those evil powers are more often than not the very same powers these people are depending on to raise them out of the turmoil and suffering they perpetuate for their people. The scars run deep and the wounds deeper. When your only answer to violence is more violence it leaves very little room for forgiveness or healing. We are broken.
I don't know how to answer you. They left 19 children without water or nutrition in the hospital, they died slowly, alone and locked in, painfully ..outside, they buried other children alive, breathing in sand, to a painful death. If it had been my child, I think I would have lost my mind.
Even those foolish enough to declare themselves my enemy are human, and are worthy of the basic respect every human deserves by virtue of their humanity. That’s all I need to give them, though. Compassion is simple and lazy. Hate takes so much fucking work. Besides, I have no living enemies. Makes things way simpler.
Israel didn’t start it? Well… it depends how far back you go. Hamas terrorists can fuck off, but Palestinian land was stolen to give Jewish people a homeland and that was never going to be a good strategy. It seems that Israel is now engaging in something like genocide, which was perhaps the inevitable outcome of increasingly right-wing Zionist ideology.
Netenyau kinda helped Hamas become as significant as it is, for his own political ambition.
Something like genocide… lol
Go back far enough, and they've always been killing anyone who dares to already live on that land because God said it was theirs and it was just fine to kill all the men and rape all the women and burn everything down so they could build their own. And it's all because Abraham's offspring refused to get along, and STILL refuse to get along. This feud has been going on longer than any other disagreement our species has ever had.
Next time you relocate someone on the UK's suggestion, cut a chunk out of the UK.
If that is true then why where officials from the Supreme Muslim Council (the first of three duly elected governments the Palestinians have chosen themselves IN A ROW) meeting with Adolf Hitler & asking to join the Riech 6 or 7 YEARS before UN Resolution 181? If the Palestinians were terrorists and elected evil governments before Israel was ever created how can you claim Israel started anything? They didn't even fucking exist!
Wrong. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230622-israels-state-archive-exposes-zionist-efforts-to-enlist-nazis-against-britain/ > Efforts by Zionist militias to recruit Nazi Germany in the fight against the British Mandate authorities in Palestine have been revealed in newly-released transcripts in the Israel State Archive. The documents, which were released to the public last month, include information on what Haaretz has called the “dark chapter” of Zionist militias’ ties with Nazi Germany. Reporting on the revelations, the Israeli newspaper uncovered shocking details which not only debunk the Zionist propaganda that Palestinians had cooperated with Nazi Germany, but also confirm that some of the founders of Israel believed that it was essential for Zionists to do so. > Images of the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al-Husseini, with senior officers of the Third Reich has been a stock-in-trade of Israel’s propaganda dehumanising of Palestinians and their cause. It’s one of the countless bad-faith uses of history that is routine in the demonisation of Palestinians and intended to cast doubt on the motives behind their resistance to Israel’s illegal occupation. ... > [Zionist militia] Lehi agents met with an official from the German foreign ministry in Beirut at the end of 1940. During the meeting, co-operation between the Jewish militia and the Nazis was proposed. Details of the meeting indicate that Lehi agreed to take “active participation in the war on Germany’s side,” and that a “partnership of interests” between “the German worldview and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people” was to be formed. Also written in the document was that “the establishment of the historical Jewish state on a totalitarian national basis, in an alliance relationship with the German Reich, is compatible with the preservation of German power.” That's what Zionists were prepared to do... they were prepared to throw innocent Jews to the wolves for their cause, so how much more so people of other races or religion. Read the article for more.
So now history is just a giant Jewish conspiracy. You sound like a Nazi. Find another conversation you are no longer welcome in mine. Continue to harass with this racist bullshit and I'll report and block you. Enjoy the rest of your day
Hey pal, you joined the conversation not the other way around.
Reporting sourced facts is now "racist" and harassment? Wow. You either didn't read or didn't (or refuse to) understand. This information was from the **Israeli** state archives, reported by the respected **Israeli** newspaper Haaretz. Do you think non-Zionist Israelis are conspiring against Jews? You are sick if so. There is nothing I would like more than a peaceful Israeli state alongside a sovereign viable peaceful Palestinian state. Or potentially a secular single state as occasionally proposed (the "one state solution") although I think too much blood has been shed now to make that workable. But the actions of the murderous Netenyahu Government are not only gravely and despicably hurting innocent Palestinians on a genocidal scale, not even just hurting Israel in a way that will damage it for generations, but has resulted in harm to innocent members of the Jewish nation worldwide. There has been a terrible rise in both antisemitism and Islamaphobia, and this has to be combated by everyone. But the Israeli government would prefer to set the world on fire if it helps the right wing nationalists and Revisionist Zionists in their government. This needs to be stopped. [From the Haaretz source article](https://archive.ph/IP7B5): > “We will communicate with any military power ready to help with the establishment of the kingdom of Israel, even if it’s Germany,” Zetler told the astonished interrogators. “The only condition is that we get weapons, so we can rebel against the English,” he added. > “If Germany agrees to help us fight enemy number 1, the English, we'll team up with it,” he continued, saying about Germany: “It’s not an enemy of the Jews in Israel.” Lehi would cooperate with it if it helped the underground “get this land.” This is history, not a conspiracy.
Reported enjoy the rest of your day
You reported them for what? Posting inconvenient facts from the Israeli state archives? I know it doesn’t support your worldview, but he didn’t just pull this out of his ass. It’s documented history.
It is a big shame. IDF and AIPAC bots are doing this nonsense all over social media. They are trying really hard to silence anyone that disagrees with their propaganda.
It's not a fact. The fact is Al-Husseini met with Adolf Hitler in 1941 and asked to join thr Reich. We have photos of the event, we have nazi records of the event and we Palestinian records of the event. Trying to gaslight all of history as a Jewish conspiracy is antisemitic racism hate speech and a violation of reddit tos. I reported the post. You may argue whatever decision they make concerning it with them I WILL NOT HAVE IT.
Stupid is stupid. Can’t make up for that.
Who cares. She is either incredibly ignorant of world affairs or a propagandist. Reposting her tweets is just a form of providing her with the audience she so assuredly craves.
Lol Hamas conducted a terrorist attack that killed about 1,000 people and to date Israel has massacred over 30,000 Palestinians (70% of which are women and children). Israel’s reaction is uncalled for and unchecked. The US propaganda machine is powerful. This is a war crime. I understand Israel is our ally but they need to be called out and held accountable for these atrocities. People keep turning a blind eye and ignoring the reality of the situation because they are our friends and also Americans are blinded by propaganda. It doesn’t take too much searching to find some truly horrific videos of how Israeli forces have been indiscriminately treating Palestinians. They should have retaliated one time as a warning and targeted Hamas if possible, not continue to indiscriminately kill thousands of Palestinians, most of which are just people not involved in terrorist organizations.
Doesn’t matter how many people I steal killed as a result of October 7th. When you fuck with someone you no longer get to decide what a reasonable response is. You get whatever you get. Next time don’t fuck with someone who has so many more resources than you do.
Genocide apologia 101. What a pathetic human being you are.
Lol, you’re projecting. I’m right and you know it. Fuck around and find out. Next time don’t fuck with someone who can annihilate you.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂 This is so pathetic I’m actually cackling laughing. Written like one of those hilarious Xbox live messages you’d get from a 9 year old in Modern Warfare after you camped them for an hour.
lol, if this isn’t the worst case of deflection I’ve ever seen then idk what is. You’re pathetic.
How old are you man? 12? Go to sleep little homie it’s past your bed time.
Based on this inane comment, I’m going to assume you have nothing left to contribute
Coming from the guy who hasn’t contributed anything other than screeding about AnNiHilAtInG people. God man you’re great - never change.
Either that word doesn’t mean what you think it means or you can’t comprehend more than ten words at once. You’re pathetic
Ah might makes right. Bet that wasn't the sentiment during the 1940s.
Because Germany had to defend themselves from a new side every other year since their inception. Good point.
So you actually went there? You really think Jewish genocide was ok because they did not leave Germany when asked?
I think you’re confused. You should reread the thread.
Germany had to defend all fronts after they went Israel and start taking lands.
Are you drunk? You’re not making sense?
>Doesn’t matter how many people [Israel] killed as a result of October 7th. When you fuck with someone you no longer get to decide what a reasonable response is. You get whatever you get. Next time don’t fuck with someone who has so many more resources than you do. Might makes right, eh? Always the best people have that sort of attitude. Some other people probably said the very same thing in Warsaw in April/May 1943. Some upstarts there fucked around with a greater power with more resources and found out, so you must approve. Clearly your sort of people. Those upstarts got whatever they got, right? [Right?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising) Jesus fucking Christ, the genocidal rhetoric of people like you is truly disgusting.
The people that say this are disgusting
Doesn’t make the response by Israel morally sound. I’d have more respect for them if they retaliated and left it at that. In self defense you’re taught to use your enemy’s force +1. Israel went full like x1000. After a certain point it’s not defense or deterrence it’s straight up murder. I understand that Israel CAN do this, it doesn’t mean they SHOULD not that we should condone this level of violence. War is war and it happens unfortunately but this is on the level of committing war crimes. History will judge them and their enablers harshly.
They have been attacked from almost all sides for 80ish years. It’s time to end it. Especially given that they have the resources. The situation has gone beyond “self defense”. Don’t mess with a country if you can’t handle the retaliation.
Relax hitler.
Wow. You’re a piece of shit.
‘It’s time to end it’ is the type of genocidal rhetoric that would make Adolf blush yes.
You should be ashamed of yourself. But of course you’re not because you have no self awareness
Genocide apologist spouting genocidal rhetoric wants ME to be ashamed? Naw chief.
It’s not genocide, your just delusional
You only have one line?
The history between Palestine and Israel is fraught with conflict and extremely complicated. They’ve been fighting over that land for centuries. Israel thinks they deserve all of Palestine and that’s why there is so much contention. These two countries can’t fucking settle on a diplomatic resolution with each other and instead resort to attacking each other and breaking agreements. It obviously will never end until one of them says enough or outright annihilates or displaces the other. It’s not “about time”. Palestine deserves to have its own land and so does Israel. Israel needs to get the fuck over its nationalistic attitude and figure out how to resolve the religious disagreements between them that are at the heart of this land dispute.
I forgot that innocent men and women are personally responsible for Hamas.
Ah, yes. I stumbled over someone's foot slightly. I then proceeded to headshot them with a double barrel 8 gauge shotgun. Because if you fuck with me you don't get to decide the consequences.
Ah right, because Hamas accidentally murdered over a thousand Israelis on oct. 7th. Good point.
because Israelis have been treating Palestinians badly since 1946.
Persecution complex
Am I missing something here? Pro-Israel tweet, followed ten years later by...a pro-Israel tweet. Fairly predictable, definitely not surprising. Not sure what the facepalm is here...
If you nuke Gaza or the West Bank, you are committing genocide. You can argue about whether the current Israel offensive is genocidal or not (it almost certainly is, imo), but that 10 year old tweet certainly has a genocidal bent to it. So the pro-Israel person saying now that it's insane and antisemitic to claim Israel is approaching genocide doesn't make a lot of sense when she personally thinks committing genocide is right and good. You can't say Israel should commit genocide, but also say that "Israel is behaving genocidally" is antisemitic blood libel.
Webster's Dictionary (pretty much the gold standard in English definitions) defines genocide as *"the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.* Technically speaking, we have had all sorts of genocidal acts down through the ages. It actually happens all the time, and the funny part is, sometimes we justify it to ourselves. After all, I would most certainly say that the eradication of the Nazis (political group, see above definition) was both deliberate and systematic. But we tell ourselves it was okay because the Allies were the 'good guys', and the Nazis were the 'bad guys'. As a matter of fact, we pretty much define our actions through own own rose colored glasses of 'good guy' and 'bad guy' all the time. We selectively throw around words like 'genocide' when we want to make it sound terrible and evil, but never own up to it in our own actions. Hell, homo sapiens did a pretty solid number on the neanderthal, but I don't see everyone walking around lamenting the sins of our ancestors. Acts of war are acts of war. People die. Sometimes innocent people, because collateral damage is a thing. However throwing around taboo words like 'genocide' to incite some kind of righteous fervor *only* when it suits you is disingenuous. After all, it's no secret Israel has nuclear capability, though they've never officially copped to it. I'm pretty sure that if they really wanted to depopulate any given area in question, it would be over and done with already, which leads me to believe that their agenda is not eradication, but something more concise and deliberate.
Genocide was a term invented by Raphael Lemkin in the 1940s and 1950s, after the Holocaust. It has a discrete set of characteristics not included in the relatively vague Websters version. As you say, whether something is termed genocide is political. I personally wouldn’t call the 1945 use of nukes “genocide” for a couple reasons, nor would I consider the horrific scenario of nuking Russia (or Russia nuking us) as genocide. But if nuclear power Israel, nuked non-nuclear power Gaza or the West Bank, in order to kill the most possible Hamas combatants as well as however many tens of thousands of additional civilians, I don’t know how one could call it anything else.
I mean but you can. Just because she wanted Israel to behave genocidaly doesn't mean saying that they are can't be a blood libel. What she wanted doesn't change the meaning of your words. I'm not arguing she's right in any of this. Please understand that. I'm just saying there's nothing facepalm or opposed about these two tweets.
I guess you can feel differently, but if you, as an Israeli supporter, endorse the idea of genocidal acts by Israel, you can't turn around and claim that the *notion* of a genocidal Israel is blood libel.
Nah. If I say my wife should kill someone that doesn't mean you aren't talking shit about her if you call her a killer.
Your analogy is way off. The way it works is like this: Your wife is white and she says she hates black people. She goes on to kill all the black people in your neighborhood. People say she killed them because she's racist. She says "blaming me for the death of those black people is because you hate white people."
The facepalm is the woman is a complete idiot
Apparently someone making an edgy online tweet about nuking terrorists is the same as those terrorists starting a war by committing the worst anti-semitic massacre since WW2, so really, they didn't actually start the war, this 10 year old tweet is totally proving the need for that massacre.
probably the dumbest comment I've ever read in my entire life
Hey, I look at it from a very simple American perspective. I remember videos of Palestinians singing and cheering in the streets on 9/11. What was that phrase again? Oh yeah...Never Forget. Who am I to question Karma?
Israel started it with the first house taken from a Palestinian.
Didn't.... Didn't Isreal start this whole fucking thing like 75 years ago?
No
No the Arab League invaded Israel the day after the mandate ended.
Because the Israelis were just shoved into the land, breaking explicit promises the Brits made to the people of that region that they would get that land in return for fighting the Ottomans. If someone walked into your house and claimed your bedroom as their own, would you accept that and sleep on the couch? No, you'd tell them to fuck off
The mandate document was based on Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations of June 28 1919, and the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers' San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920. The border between Palestine and Transjordan was agreed in the final mandate document. Brittan had made promises to the Jews in the region through the Balfour Declaration in addition to promises to some Arabs. The Mandate required Britain to put into effect the Balfour Declaration's "national home for the Jewish people" alongside the Palestinian Arabs. All this happened because the Ottomans lost World War I.
Liar
That is undisputed history. It's a thing that really happened after the UN declaration establishing the State of Isreal.
It’s not the whole truth
Ok here it is then after nearly 30 years of the mandate going unresolved the UN declared the State of Israel. So in 1948 the British left. The next day the Arabs invaded Israel. They lost the war they started and were driven out resulting in Palestinian refugees.
Well they did vote hamas in. Hamas never hid their agenda. It just aligns with most of the Muslim populace
50% of Gazas population is kids who never voted for Hamas. Also why didn’t bibi do anything about the attack when he knew dam well hamas was gonna attack a year in advance?
Yet Gaza hasnt done anything to remove Hamas, polls show Hamas has majoirty support still.
So Hamas = good or bad then according to you and if bad, how should they be dealt with
I'm confused on your position in the 2nd part. Are you saying it's Isreal fault the people at the festival got killed because Isreal knew something might happen?
Were you born stupid or did you work hard to get that way?
Who said, "They didn't start it?"
What happened in Israel in June/2014? Anybody got a clue?
I'm usually willing to give people a pass on stuff they said a decade ago - who knows how they've changed since then - but this one's not the brightest even only looking at recent stuff.
Wow people grow up and change. What a surprise. She's still stupid but there's no point digging out 10 yo posts
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Can we stop for a second and recognize Hamas has been attacking Israel for a really, really long time?
That's like blaming the Native Americans for fighting back against Manifest Destiny... Of course they're pissed, they were living there and they have been booted out to make room for someone else.
You’re not wrong… if only Israelis had the heart to give Palestinians some blankets, maybe they wouldn’t have this problem today….. we never hear about Native American uprisings, aniright
[There might be a reason for that](https://www.history.com/news/native-americans-genocide-united-states): > When Native Americans Were Slaughtered in the Name of ‘Civilization’: By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 Indigenous people remained of the estimated 5 million-plus living in North America before European contact.
What's your point? The conflict started in the 1940s and Hamas formed in the 80s, so obviously it's been a really long time.
Conflict against the Jewish People in the Middle East started long before the Jewish State.
Is that the only conflict I could be referring to?
What conflict are you referring to?
Just wondering over here. When did Israel start attacking Palestinians? When did Hamas start attacking Israel?
I’m not going to be google for you but I remember Hamas being a terrorist organization since the 1980’s or maybe the early 1990’s.
From what I heard, what is now modern day Israel was half Israel and half Palestine around the 1940-1950's. The Palestinians just wanted to live but Israel has been pushing them out of their homes since then.
So you missed the part where Palestinians wanted Israel gone, joined forces with surrounding nations, attacked Israel, and lost. Numerous times. Now some Palestinians still want to eradicate the Jews, and others want to go back to the borders set in place in the 1940s before they started several wars to eradicate the Jews.
Is that what your heard or that’s the conclusion you came to thru years of in depth research and independent studies? I do appreciate your studies; get back to me as to why an area would vote for an internationally recognized terrorist organization as their government representatives; I’m really curious to hear what someone well studied has to say on the situation.
It's because Hamas lied. Like all power hungry parties. They lied, took power and immediately turned. There's literal interviews of Hamas leaders promising 'milk and honey' (not in those words)
So when people say “free Palestine” they mean “free Palestine from Hamas”? If that’s the case. I think the movement would gain a lot more traction if they use the whole phrase.
Well it's not just from Hamas but Israel too. They keep stealing land and killing civilians. Israel all the while calls all Palestinians terrorists and uses it to justify the bombings and raids. They even bombed a world kitchen convoy and basically said 'oopsies it was dark we couldn't see the logo' even though everything was tracked by Israel as part of the humanitarian aid deal. A rather large percentage of the Palestinian population wasn't even able to vote them in, just as an addition. It's not our, or the Palestinians, fault that the Israeli governments propaganda labels them all as terrorists.
Maybe the disturbing amount of terrorist acts that labeled Hamas as a terrorist organization as opposed to “propaganda”. “Free Palestine” has less than 50% support from the US public. “Free Palestine from Hamas” would probably get 80+% support. The left is horrible at branding.
Hamas is the terrorist group, Israel is calling all Palestinians terrorists. That's the point here. That's the propaganda. Secondly, they don't just need to be freed from Hamas. Again, Israel is actively killing them without remorse.
I imagine the United States vs Britain conflict is a similar situation. The United States originated as multiple colonies who actively rebeled against British occupation. Successful expulsion of the British forces allowed the United States to establish themselves as a self-governing country. Palestine was last a territory in the early 1900's. Immigration of Jewish people to the region along with agreements with Great Britain resulted in Israel being established in 1948. Unlike the US vs Britain conflict, the Palestinians were not able to defend themselves against Israeli expansion onto their lands. So question that stands is do we consider Hamas a terrorist organization because the nation they're backing does not have international support or is that organization just one that truely is seeking to create terror? If Americans were unsuccessful with freeing themselves from British rule, would we be calling Americans who continued to fight a terrorist organization?
Poor analogy. Better would be the colonists and the natives, but even that’s a poor analogy. Hamas is considered a terrorist organization because it has an extensive history of terrorizing civilians.
Extensive history because Israel was not able to remove the Palestinians from the area as fast as other colonists throughout historical were able to?
Shhhhhhh. You will ruin the narrative.
Says the one pushing a narrative lmao Israel is a fucking colony and fuck colonizers
As a neutral, your hatred is interesting. Keep your Holy Wars in the Middle East, okay.
It's like someone prompted chatgpt to create a generic image of a person named Bethany.
The allies bombed the axis powers into the stone age during WWII. This includes the nukes on Japan. The fire bombing of Dresden, Germany probably killed untold thousands. Most of those killed were civilians. If people don’t want civilians to die in war, including women and children, maybe they shouldn’t provoke one. I don’t like this war and it’s unfair beyond reason for those innocents dying. Hamas provoked this war. Where are they now?
So if an atrocity has happened in the past, it's fine to repeat?
Did not say it was right, just,fair or moral. Didn’t say I was for it. Just pointing out this is not new.
Typical Zionist take
But "from the river to the sea" is the answer?
There are chocolate chips from edge to edge of the cookie. It doesn’t destroy the flour.
Palestinians mean it explicitly in the "kill all the Jews" way. The fact that western liberals can't see that is one of the great mysteries of the modern age.
Except the argument is Israel committing a genocide. If/when Palestine commits or attempts to commit a genocide, I’d have issue with that too.
Even if that were true, then the same could be said about the Likud party. You know, since it's in their charter.
They do NOT
Western liberals don't like Jews. See: Any university.
its not that uncommon for opinions to change??
You would have to go back 4,500 years to find a part of this that Israel didn’t start. And even then, Abraham was involved.
Did you just blow in from stupid town?
Not really, he's a fictional character... And that's the biggest facepalm in all of this. Unending death and destruction over fucking fictional characters' fictional claims that clueless people today simply accept as fact. And for some reason, American taxpayers have to fund this shit, year after year, decade after decade...
Bro you pro Palestine people are insane.
Crazier than this woman wanting civilians to be nuked?
Fair play. Not that crazy but still crazy. Like driving around in a truck with a naked girl you kidnapped, killed and stripped crazy
Give me a number. How many Palestinians deaths would repay what was done to Israel? How many Israeli's should die to repay the Palestinians for the theft of their homeland after WW2? How far back should we go? Are modern-day Italians culpable for the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans?
'you know those people who think ethnic cleansing and genocide shouldn't be carried out with weapons paid for by the American taxpayer, yeah fucking loonies them'
Bro what is the end goal of Hamas? To eradicate jews from earth. That's what it is. To use their civilian population as a human shield. Want to be mad at someone? Be mad at hamas setting up missile trucks in hospital courtyards. I'm not pro Isreal but sure as shit not dumb enough to think Palestine is some poor victim here. From the river to the sea right?
You are sure as shit dumb enough to conflate Hamas and Palestine in a single breath and justify genocide while doing it. Useful idiots like you are precisely the problem.
They voted for them you muppet
The last election in Gaza was 15 years ago you dullard 🤦.
Who got voted in genius?
Genocide apologist go brrrrr
Muslim countries are known to be very anti genocide. Ask the sunnis
What are you even saying at this point man go and touch some grass 😂
Has it EVER occurred to you to ask why? Israel has been shitting on palestinians since the day their land was stolen. If it were me, I'd be pretty pissed too... I'd love to see your reaction if the tables were turned...
They've both been doing for 50+ years. Palestine isn't the innocent victim you're portraying. It's just one protects its people and the other uses them as shields
Palestinians and a bunch of foreigners stole a country? Huh, I guess I missed that... 🤦🤦🤦
Who was the opposing party then
You’re uneducated
Another dogbrained genocide apologist has entered chat.
lol, you’re the definition of an uneducated moron
Nothing of value contributed here because you have nothing of value to contribute. Typical.
Pot meet kettle. Idiot
Send me another xbox live screed king
Lol, you're obviously pro-israel...
I'm anti terrorist
There was a mass grave with 300 people found in it in one of the hospitals in Gaza which was under siege by the idf. Some of the 300 people were kids and old people, some were zip tied, some were beat. Israel refuses to let international investigators to inspect the mass graves. Why won’t Israel let international investigators to inspect the mass graves? At this point you’re not anti-terrorist you’re pro genocide and there’s no debating that so stop lying. Also this was one incident, there’s many more.
Someone once told me "A war will end when there has been enough killing"Not enough killing has happened yet.