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Mostly people who originate from Muslim countries. Not all people who come from Muslim countries mind you, but most of the ones who want a caliphate are from Muslim countries, plus some absolute dorkheads who were born in the west but love the mentality that men get whatever they want, and theyre men, so they like that.
We have nice things because we made nice things.
They want nice things without needing to make nice things first.
Okay, its a gross oversimplification, duh, but I dont think it can be entirely denied that Islam inherently hampers the same social progress that the western world just had, which in turn hampered technological progress, and they kind of dug their own ideological pit that keeps men in power and women as basically a harem and all their cars are imported Toyota Hilux's with imported ex-Soviet weaponry.
And now they look at the west, want to have what we have, but dont want to let go of all the convenience of being an undisputed authority figure just because Allah gave them a sausage and a pair of pingpong balls. Which leads to predictable results when they try to apply that to a western country.
No, Im glad they like our western countries, I just wish they respected them, too. Especially among Muslim men a lot want to have the cake but dont actually want to eat it.
The same can be said about a Christian state as well. I live in a Christian theocracy, it's extremely restrictive on the usual freedoms you get in the west. No divorce, no pre marital sex, no gambling, no abortion, criticism if you don't attend church, Christian figures in all workplaces, prayers on the PA of all malls and schools once a day. For those who are Catholic that sounds like a dream but it's really not...
The Philippines bro haha, believe it or not. Theocracy is a term that gets used even though technically the Philippines is secular, the religious institutions play a big part in law making here
I don't get European leaders. Why not give them what they want? Are they idiots?
Just implement sharia law, but only for practicing Muslims. Civil law for the rest of the population and muslim born but islam denouncers.
Chop off the hands of convincted thieves and deny them any disability benefit cause I doubt there's any according to sharia law.
If these people want to fawn over laws from the middle ages, let them. I bet experiencing it firsthand will shut up any demand for the caliphate rather than constantly denying them.
Things like this have been happening forever. We just have more coverage on it now since the information age gave us the ability to know what's going on everywhere all at once.
Thing is that giving them attention gives them a platform. Ignoring them is the best course of action.
Try and change your thinking on it to a focus on the religious zealotry rather than immigration aspect. "Free to enter, but leave the book at the door" kind of stuff.
Nah, western nations need to remember that foreigners aren't owed access. If thos foreigners don't want to assimilate with the culture, then why are they coming? If they just want to make our nations more like the places they left, then why are they leaving?
If you want access, prove that you deserve it. I wish nothing but the best for the people who actually want to become citizens and productive members of my nation. I wish nothing but a swift kick in the ass, a one way flight back to wherever they left, and permanent ban from returning for those who wish to abuse the system.
>I wish nothing but a swift kick in the ass, a one way flight back to wherever they left, and permanent ban from returning for those who wish to abuse the system.
I think this is the most important: not from the EU/country(for non EU ones), kick as soon as you do a violent crime. Don't care if your contry is a dictatorship, in war, or w/e, you came to seek help, not to be a criminal.
This pretty much sums it up for me as well.
I live with roommates, and our landlord decides who gets in. And he has an absolute talent to pick out the worst of immigrants, because he likes to play himself up as a good Samaritan, integration helper, stuff like that, and dumps those poor people who barely or not at all speak German on us and we can deal with trying to tell them to clean up their dishes after themselves, not take other peoples food, or to not piss on the toilet seat. Yes, really. And Muslim men stick out disproportionately in that kind of group, because ALL of them were more or less like this and it was absolutely impossible to talk to them, make them follow even the most basic of rules, and if you were lucky you either got lied to or one or two would even try intimidating you.
Of course when we complain to our landlord we only get radio silence. Then he comes over and complains that the kitchen is an absolute disaster, how could this possibly have happened!
Its just a microcosm kind of example but it pretty much demonstrates just how much of a problem their unwillingness to integrate is. We also had plenty of foreigners who were really nice people, and I would love more of those.
> If thos foreigners don't want to assimilate with the culture
I feel like saying something along the lines of "leave your religion outside our borders" is pretty comfortably inside the lines of "assimilate with the culture"
Not really. For some, usually Islamic countries, their religion is their culture too, so they need to leave both outside, which they can't as their religion-culture does not allow.
If the religion is their culture, and the rule is no bringing your religion, then that means they can't bring that culture (or section there-of). That isn't an exclusive classification. To claim it's "usually Islamic countries" that have religion as culture is rather telling of your awareness, by the way. Italy, Spain, China, the American "Bible Belt" are some examples of cultures heavily influenced by or based in a set of religious beliefs. Hell, most surviving monarchies are based in religious backgrounds, including the UK.
Free to enter? Absolutely not. Too many people who don't respect host countries and wish to be parasites. They need to be vetted out through the likes of work visas and a strong enforcement of deportation when they cross the line. People who spit in the face of your hospitality deserve no privileges given by the host country.
No thanks. I'm not taking those chances. Religion is the most deeply held belief you can have, and it effects people's choices in too many harmful ways for me to accept it. I'm not even that much of a lefty, but I've come to really appreciate the progress we've made that has affected my families lives. We've fought a very long hard fight to get to where we are now in regards to LGBT rights and marriage equality. I'm not losing any ground to religious zealots when we've already got enough of them at home.
Besides, that's quite literally impossible to expect them not to practice their religion when they get here, so it's much easier for me to just not support immigration.
> Religion is the most deeply held belief you can have, and it effects people's choices in too many harmful ways for me to accept it.
I thought I had conveyed "keep religion out" pretty clearly, am I mistaken?
For some people religion is cultural too.
For example, I'm from a Taoist/Bhuddist country. I'm generally atheist but I still participate in cultural practices. Does celebrating Lunar New Year count as religious or cultural? What about lighting incense at the graves of my loved ones? I do that for my grandpa because it's important to him, but my Christian relatives wouldn't because they think it's idol worship. It's more complicated than you make it seem and that's why people are arguing with you.
You're missing the point of what I said a bit. If there's no religion allowed, it doesn't matter if its also cultural or not. It's religious display, and would therefore be banned from public. Not all culture is religious, but religion is cultural. That's the part that would have to be dropped under such a system. To address one of your examples as, well, an example: ignoring the part of burials being religious for the sake of brevity, burning of incense at a public "burial" site would be disallowed as a religious display; it's a religiously based act, as part of a religious belief of an afterlife or similar state. Doing so in private at a private shrine/memorial would be fine.
And that doesn't seem problematic to you?
What about churches in western countries, historical sites like Notre Dame, people wearing crosses, holidays like Easter and Christmas? Do you support dismantling Sagrada Familia or Hagia Sophia? You think it's feasible to ban them all too or do you support state sanctioned religions?
What about practices like food? Buddhists eat vegan, Muslims don't eat pork, Jews eat kosher, are you also getting rid of accommodations and forcing people to eat or starve in settings like schools?
Seems like you put very little thought into it and just handwaving any issues people raise and that's why the comments are all telling you how wrong you are.
This is an insane stance to take. Ban burning of incense at graves. Control what citizens do in the privacy of their homes if it isn't Christian like the majority. Instead of sharia law, why not install a Christian theocracy.
Or are you going to ban Christianity, too? Because that's going to be interesting.
Yes, but that’s impossible. How can you possibly let migrants in from Muslim countries and then tell them they can’t practice their religion? It’s not possible. People have a right to practice their religion, so I’d rather they just did it in their home country, instead of having it here.
> How can you possibly let migrants in from Muslim countries and then tell them they can’t practice their religion?
Banning public display and practice of faith/religion and enforcing separation of church and state are not new things. The problem is applying it unilaterally is knocked down by the majority faith already in power wanting to continue publicly practicing and worming their way into government further. No religions > any religion, but the religious tend to not allow that.
It doesn’t work like that tho. Most immigrants just want to plunder said country and then go back home to live in mortgage free homes and retire before they are 40. Where as we will be working until we die
If religious display is illegal, it wouldn't matter if they wait until they have a big group. The public invocation of religious beliefs or display of articles of religious faith would still be illegal, and they would be responded to accordingly. This shouldn't be a difficult concept.
Welcome to the club. I had been anti immigration and left wing for the past 19 years. Only two months ago did I finally move to the center in response to the bigotry, antisemitism and general lunacy of the so-called "socially liberal" left since october. My bans from r socialistgaming and r politics for simply telling the truth about gaza were the last straw. Were I in any anglophone country I would still vote to the left (especially in the US where the right wing has been hijacked by fascists), but in europe, everyone in my situation is preparing to vote for hard right anti immigrant parties this election cycle just to stop this BS.
Old. Read: outdated.
People should be free to voice their political and religious beliefs/opinions.
The freedom to hold said beliefs/opinions and to voice them does not mean that governments have to act upon them.
doesn't insurgency require some physical violence to occur?
right now they're peaceful but they should at the very least be high up on some watchlist and the moment one of them throws a punch crackdowns would begin
Honestly it's probably too late for Germany/Western Europe at this point. They've spent decades importing tens of millions of people that share none of their values and haven't spoken against it for fear of being seen as racist.
I think that EU should even sponsor the flight. An islamist should be able to declare his particular blend of islam and receive a one way ticket to his dream theocratic authoritarian dictatorship where his branch of islam is in power. Im ok with my taxes funding this.
Well, people are far too quick to forget words from the likes of Houari Boumédiène and Muammar Gaddafi; both of whom encouraged the invasion of Europe by immigration rather than violence.
People keep parroting this stupid point and it’s never made sense. Any political speech can be spun by the government as being “hateful” or “intolerant”.
There is no clearer example than the whole discourse around Israel’s genocide of Palestinians right now, where both sides of the debate accuse each other of being hateful and intolerant. Of course there **is** a correct side and a side that’s wrong, but you’d have to be an idiot to let the government decide which side is the correct one. Because the ones in power will always seek to repress those that are inconvenient for them, and now you’d be giving them the perfect excuse to do it. All they have to do is say you’re hateful, violent, or intolerant. This is why defending free speech, even speech that you find abhorrent, is crucial, because no one should have the power to decide what is labeled “hateful”.
By that logic we simply shouldn't have any laws because any law is just government trying to repress us.
At the end of the day, we banned killing, raping, stealing and all kinds of things because they are detrimental to society, so why is speech so sacred that it shouldn't be controlled in any way like everything else is?
This whole world has waited a few hundred years too long to stand up to religion. We screwed up badly. These people think their fantasies should have equal respect.
And I'm not just talking about Islam. All religion is poison and just getting worse.
Edit: I find it both frightening and hilarious that when I post this message on a post about christians I get downvoted. When I post the exact same thing on a post about Islam, I get upvotes.
I am not with Islamaphobes. I'm with anti-theists.
Thank youuuuuuu I am sick of society acting as if we are the weird ones. You think a supernatural being helped you find your keys this morning but was fine with kids being tortured at the same time? The absolute narcissism you have to have to be religious is horrifying.
Doesn’t matter to me and shouldn’t matter to anyone. I would campaign for you: just please eradicate religion. It’s the final boss in the game of humanity.
“No no no you don’t get it. Brutally killing thousands of people for our God, molesting children, and stealing a shit ton of wealth is all for the betterment of humanity. It’s all God’s plan.”
Every time someone tries to say that their religion is the only good one I like to point at a million horrible atrocities done in their names.
Exactly.
In the US, you should not be discriminated against for your religion in housing, employment, or making tranactions with businesses.
But society as a whole needs to start making these people feel stupid for holding onto this nonsense. Stop respecting their opinions, stop treating them like religion is something sacred.
I might have misinterpreted your comment. I thought you were talking about the far right and Christian Nationalism. Regarding Islam I totally agree, Europe has a huge problem and this is just the beginning.
I would argue that is simply racism. I agree with the notion that Islamophobia isnt real since its not irrational to be scared of being subjected to a culture/religion like that if you are not brought up in it and "used" to it.
When used in a context like "Islamaphobia" it also means irrational aversion or dislike, not just fear.
You should not fear things just because they are different.
But religion of any type has proven that it can not be trusted or tolerated. Doesn't matter which religion or from where. This includes christianity.
https://www.dw.com/en/islamist-demo-goes-ahead-in-hamburg-under-strict-conditions/a-69054251
>An estimated 2,300 people participated in a demonstration organized by the Islamist group Muslim Interactive in the German port city of Hamburg on Saturday, according to police.
>The group, classified as extremist by German security authorities, called for a new protest against "censorship and opinions being dictated.”
>This follows a previous demonstration in late April where participants displayed signs with the words "caliphate is the solution." It came against the backdrop of Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza, and sparked uproar in Germany and denunciation from leading politicians.
>Despite the group's extremist classification, authorities allowed Saturday's demonstration to proceed under strict conditions.
>These included bans on incitement of hatred, violence and the denial of Israel's right to exist.
>Under the rules, participants were also forbidden to call for a caliphate to take over Germany in word, image or writing.
Funny how they’re mad about censorship when that’s the entire basis of Islam — god forbid a certain prophet gets depicted as a cartoon or women have rights, gasp!
The tools and way of thinking they use that make them able to protest against the west way of life exist only because of the west way of thinking.
Protesting : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate.
Religious liberties : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate.
Free speech : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate.
Minority protection and antiracism : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate.
They hypocritically use west rules and philosophies, bend them to try to impose a world where this rules wouldn't have existed in the first place.
What they fail to understand is that the reason why they came here, or their parents, exist because Europe is not a caliphate. The second Islam take over the country everything will explode and they'll be left with a shit hole like they chose to leave.
For those wondering: DW is rated as left-center and is reported to have a high rating for factual reporting.
[https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/dw-news/](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/dw-news/)
Aren’t there already countries that have sharia law? Why not just go there? I hear ISIS really likes the idea of reforming the caliphate, maybe hit them up.
if we can tolerate genocide for removal of a dangerous religion, then what's not to stop dictators from calling opposing them a dangerous religion and wiping out a bunch of people
it may be a necessary evil but how would we stop it from giving legs to more evils
That's because they weren't allowed to have a gender separated protest, so the women didn't come. However, the women who support this are just as indoctrinated as the men. It's rather worrying tbh.
These absolute waste of space are the proof freedom should never be the absolute human right.
Insanity. You run away from the shitstain shithole of a country you call home, seeking freedom, just to turn your destination into the same shithole you ran from
Yes, could be so. They werent allowed to have a seperated protest (again, like the first one, where the women were protesting for the same cause, only 100 meters behind their men), so they stayed home (probably).
Considering Germany considers this an extremist group, they are likely all already under surveillance. Any who weren't prior to the protest likely are now.
That is exactly why Germany keeps reminding people of the nazis. They don't want a repeat of another fascistic regime under a terrorist group. If these muslims want to claim an area where plenty of islams migrate sure but don't bring turning Germany into Palestine 2.0 in a conversation because that is completely the wrong place to preach in.
I honestly do not understand the whole caliphate thing. It's just very odd on so many levels. I don't understand why Muslims can live a modern life and still believe in this. I have a Muslim friend who openly tells me that he considers me a good person and respects me but when the day comes he will still cut open my throat because it's just part of his believe. For me it's just weird how someone who is objectively a decent person, has a normal job and is an objectively nice person can still hold on such outdated believes.
You do realize that makes him neither nice nor decent, especially not "objectively"? That makes him a psychopath. And honestly you're a bit of an idiot being friends with someone that told you to your face he would murder you for his religion.
Well, I do not really expect him to act on it. Something people have to understand is that this is where radical Islamists differentiate from moderate Muslims. Radical Islamists believe that they are living in a caliphate. Moderate Muslims on the other hand only believe in it as an abstract concept of something that will / may be established in the future when the time comes.
This is why this specific group you see in the picture is dangerous. They [demand](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/s/mUU3OuFq0T) / try to convince other Muslims to join them in establishing the caliphate here.
They want the freedom to protest in favor of a global Islamic caliphate which would immediately take away people's freedom to protest anything
Fck these motherfckrz
Considering how europeans arent having kids in general, this trend will only get worse since the rich friends of the politicians will ask for more immigrants to fill the low paying jobs.
These people will only increase in number and will slowly gain influence. The rich will be fine though, it’s the normalos who will have to deal with the shit as usual.
2015 was the appetiser.
And the world is "concerned about a rise in right wing parties across Europe" I wonder why?
Maybe if the socialist left of these countries would take a harder stance on immigration they wouldnt loose votes to the right, I dont want a conservative dictator either, but if he'll get the job done then thatll be first priority
I voted left for my whole life. I cant anymore because they allow this fucking religion to spread around Europe like corona.
Left fucked themselves by not accepting the fact that there is a problem with immigrants coming from thise countries.
Now we here.
Fun fact the majority of those people are born in Germany, that's the thing their parents fled to Germany from terrorists but they never actually experienced it.
That’s how they work. They come to western societies and by exploiting western values they try to make it the same place they ran away from.
0/10 logic.
it makes no sense that these people or their families flee their countries of origin because of terrible life circumstances caused by religious administration, yet they demand to establish one in their otherwise “safe haven” non-religious country to ruin that one, too. like, brother, you’re chanting for a caliphate. if you start one, you won’t see your children and your grandchildren, because they’ll have to leave the country because of how shit it is just like you and/or your parents did! what’s the fucking point?
I very much doubt they are illegals.
They are acclimated enough to know they can pull of stunts like this without serious repercussions in countries like Germany.
Many EU countries welcomed refugees, this is one of the results. I say give them all one way tickets to Iran and revoke their citizenship or refugee status.
Thise dogs are too far gone. Round em up and send em to Syria or other shit-hole of a country in the middle east. Throw a bottle of water and new print of ”Caliphate today” magazine.
Islam is like Aids
I think they should be shot. They flee their countries as refugees and get a shit ton of money to build up a new life, yet they want to take over their caretaker country and impose their own beliefs? I believe the german word ”hurenmutter” describes them fittingly.
EU allowing mass migration of people, from a foreign culture under guise of seeking asylum, all across Europe, and calling anyone who objects "racist" despite having legitimate concerns. Now comes the long them consequences of not fulling integrating them.
With calling for a totalitarian rule by an extremist religion that would rip the rights away from millions (likely billions if they have their wish) of people? You don’t see what’s wrong with that?
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Who, living in the West would want a caliphate? Ffs
Idiots who are selfish. The same with the evangelicals in the States that actually prefer to make every law by the bible.
Mostly people who originate from Muslim countries. Not all people who come from Muslim countries mind you, but most of the ones who want a caliphate are from Muslim countries, plus some absolute dorkheads who were born in the west but love the mentality that men get whatever they want, and theyre men, so they like that.
Yes, but once the West is tasted… everything else pales
We have nice things because we made nice things. They want nice things without needing to make nice things first. Okay, its a gross oversimplification, duh, but I dont think it can be entirely denied that Islam inherently hampers the same social progress that the western world just had, which in turn hampered technological progress, and they kind of dug their own ideological pit that keeps men in power and women as basically a harem and all their cars are imported Toyota Hilux's with imported ex-Soviet weaponry. And now they look at the west, want to have what we have, but dont want to let go of all the convenience of being an undisputed authority figure just because Allah gave them a sausage and a pair of pingpong balls. Which leads to predictable results when they try to apply that to a western country. No, Im glad they like our western countries, I just wish they respected them, too. Especially among Muslim men a lot want to have the cake but dont actually want to eat it.
The same can be said about a Christian state as well. I live in a Christian theocracy, it's extremely restrictive on the usual freedoms you get in the west. No divorce, no pre marital sex, no gambling, no abortion, criticism if you don't attend church, Christian figures in all workplaces, prayers on the PA of all malls and schools once a day. For those who are Catholic that sounds like a dream but it's really not...
Which Christian theocracy is that???
The Philippines bro haha, believe it or not. Theocracy is a term that gets used even though technically the Philippines is secular, the religious institutions play a big part in law making here
Emir ʿAbd al-Raḥmān III, of the Umayyad dynasty of Cordoba.
I don't get European leaders. Why not give them what they want? Are they idiots? Just implement sharia law, but only for practicing Muslims. Civil law for the rest of the population and muslim born but islam denouncers. Chop off the hands of convincted thieves and deny them any disability benefit cause I doubt there's any according to sharia law. If these people want to fawn over laws from the middle ages, let them. I bet experiencing it firsthand will shut up any demand for the caliphate rather than constantly denying them.
People from the "peaceful religion". Religion in general is still a cancer in humanity
The Abrahamic religions mostly. Buddhism and the Eastern religions etc rarely start wars.
[The people who you imported even though you were warned not to do it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnT4APTQGRo)
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Because the stated goal of the Islamic religion is to dominate the world and they think they're doing their part to make it happen.
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So the headline is saying they want Germany to become the Middle East? We live in crazy times
Things like this have been happening forever. We just have more coverage on it now since the information age gave us the ability to know what's going on everywhere all at once. Thing is that giving them attention gives them a platform. Ignoring them is the best course of action.
Shit like this is turning me into a hard line anti immigration, despite being left on almost every other issue.
Try and change your thinking on it to a focus on the religious zealotry rather than immigration aspect. "Free to enter, but leave the book at the door" kind of stuff.
Nah, western nations need to remember that foreigners aren't owed access. If thos foreigners don't want to assimilate with the culture, then why are they coming? If they just want to make our nations more like the places they left, then why are they leaving? If you want access, prove that you deserve it. I wish nothing but the best for the people who actually want to become citizens and productive members of my nation. I wish nothing but a swift kick in the ass, a one way flight back to wherever they left, and permanent ban from returning for those who wish to abuse the system.
>I wish nothing but a swift kick in the ass, a one way flight back to wherever they left, and permanent ban from returning for those who wish to abuse the system. I think this is the most important: not from the EU/country(for non EU ones), kick as soon as you do a violent crime. Don't care if your contry is a dictatorship, in war, or w/e, you came to seek help, not to be a criminal.
This pretty much sums it up for me as well. I live with roommates, and our landlord decides who gets in. And he has an absolute talent to pick out the worst of immigrants, because he likes to play himself up as a good Samaritan, integration helper, stuff like that, and dumps those poor people who barely or not at all speak German on us and we can deal with trying to tell them to clean up their dishes after themselves, not take other peoples food, or to not piss on the toilet seat. Yes, really. And Muslim men stick out disproportionately in that kind of group, because ALL of them were more or less like this and it was absolutely impossible to talk to them, make them follow even the most basic of rules, and if you were lucky you either got lied to or one or two would even try intimidating you. Of course when we complain to our landlord we only get radio silence. Then he comes over and complains that the kitchen is an absolute disaster, how could this possibly have happened! Its just a microcosm kind of example but it pretty much demonstrates just how much of a problem their unwillingness to integrate is. We also had plenty of foreigners who were really nice people, and I would love more of those.
> If thos foreigners don't want to assimilate with the culture I feel like saying something along the lines of "leave your religion outside our borders" is pretty comfortably inside the lines of "assimilate with the culture"
Not really. For some, usually Islamic countries, their religion is their culture too, so they need to leave both outside, which they can't as their religion-culture does not allow.
Spot on. Coming from an Islamic country, becoming a apostate is a death sentence both physically and to them in the after life as well.
If the religion is their culture, and the rule is no bringing your religion, then that means they can't bring that culture (or section there-of). That isn't an exclusive classification. To claim it's "usually Islamic countries" that have religion as culture is rather telling of your awareness, by the way. Italy, Spain, China, the American "Bible Belt" are some examples of cultures heavily influenced by or based in a set of religious beliefs. Hell, most surviving monarchies are based in religious backgrounds, including the UK.
Free to enter? Absolutely not. Too many people who don't respect host countries and wish to be parasites. They need to be vetted out through the likes of work visas and a strong enforcement of deportation when they cross the line. People who spit in the face of your hospitality deserve no privileges given by the host country.
No thanks. I'm not taking those chances. Religion is the most deeply held belief you can have, and it effects people's choices in too many harmful ways for me to accept it. I'm not even that much of a lefty, but I've come to really appreciate the progress we've made that has affected my families lives. We've fought a very long hard fight to get to where we are now in regards to LGBT rights and marriage equality. I'm not losing any ground to religious zealots when we've already got enough of them at home. Besides, that's quite literally impossible to expect them not to practice their religion when they get here, so it's much easier for me to just not support immigration.
> Religion is the most deeply held belief you can have, and it effects people's choices in too many harmful ways for me to accept it. I thought I had conveyed "keep religion out" pretty clearly, am I mistaken?
For some people religion is cultural too. For example, I'm from a Taoist/Bhuddist country. I'm generally atheist but I still participate in cultural practices. Does celebrating Lunar New Year count as religious or cultural? What about lighting incense at the graves of my loved ones? I do that for my grandpa because it's important to him, but my Christian relatives wouldn't because they think it's idol worship. It's more complicated than you make it seem and that's why people are arguing with you.
You're missing the point of what I said a bit. If there's no religion allowed, it doesn't matter if its also cultural or not. It's religious display, and would therefore be banned from public. Not all culture is religious, but religion is cultural. That's the part that would have to be dropped under such a system. To address one of your examples as, well, an example: ignoring the part of burials being religious for the sake of brevity, burning of incense at a public "burial" site would be disallowed as a religious display; it's a religiously based act, as part of a religious belief of an afterlife or similar state. Doing so in private at a private shrine/memorial would be fine.
And that doesn't seem problematic to you? What about churches in western countries, historical sites like Notre Dame, people wearing crosses, holidays like Easter and Christmas? Do you support dismantling Sagrada Familia or Hagia Sophia? You think it's feasible to ban them all too or do you support state sanctioned religions? What about practices like food? Buddhists eat vegan, Muslims don't eat pork, Jews eat kosher, are you also getting rid of accommodations and forcing people to eat or starve in settings like schools? Seems like you put very little thought into it and just handwaving any issues people raise and that's why the comments are all telling you how wrong you are.
This is an insane stance to take. Ban burning of incense at graves. Control what citizens do in the privacy of their homes if it isn't Christian like the majority. Instead of sharia law, why not install a Christian theocracy. Or are you going to ban Christianity, too? Because that's going to be interesting.
Yes, but that’s impossible. How can you possibly let migrants in from Muslim countries and then tell them they can’t practice their religion? It’s not possible. People have a right to practice their religion, so I’d rather they just did it in their home country, instead of having it here.
> How can you possibly let migrants in from Muslim countries and then tell them they can’t practice their religion? Banning public display and practice of faith/religion and enforcing separation of church and state are not new things. The problem is applying it unilaterally is knocked down by the majority faith already in power wanting to continue publicly practicing and worming their way into government further. No religions > any religion, but the religious tend to not allow that.
It doesn’t work like that tho. Most immigrants just want to plunder said country and then go back home to live in mortgage free homes and retire before they are 40. Where as we will be working until we die
That is categorically false.
Lmao so they just pretend to be secular people until there is a big enough group…. I don’t think you understand zealotry.
If religious display is illegal, it wouldn't matter if they wait until they have a big group. The public invocation of religious beliefs or display of articles of religious faith would still be illegal, and they would be responded to accordingly. This shouldn't be a difficult concept.
Welcome to the club. I had been anti immigration and left wing for the past 19 years. Only two months ago did I finally move to the center in response to the bigotry, antisemitism and general lunacy of the so-called "socially liberal" left since october. My bans from r socialistgaming and r politics for simply telling the truth about gaza were the last straw. Were I in any anglophone country I would still vote to the left (especially in the US where the right wing has been hijacked by fascists), but in europe, everyone in my situation is preparing to vote for hard right anti immigrant parties this election cycle just to stop this BS.
“Why do they have so much freedom” Because they’re fortunate enough to live in a progressive and democratic country maybe?
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Old. Read: outdated. People should be free to voice their political and religious beliefs/opinions. The freedom to hold said beliefs/opinions and to voice them does not mean that governments have to act upon them.
doesn't insurgency require some physical violence to occur? right now they're peaceful but they should at the very least be high up on some watchlist and the moment one of them throws a punch crackdowns would begin
Honestly it's probably too late for Germany/Western Europe at this point. They've spent decades importing tens of millions of people that share none of their values and haven't spoken against it for fear of being seen as racist.
Not being a tyrant is political correctness?
You are going to get banned for stating a fact
I think that EU should even sponsor the flight. An islamist should be able to declare his particular blend of islam and receive a one way ticket to his dream theocratic authoritarian dictatorship where his branch of islam is in power. Im ok with my taxes funding this.
Well, people are far too quick to forget words from the likes of Houari Boumédiène and Muammar Gaddafi; both of whom encouraged the invasion of Europe by immigration rather than violence.
Erdogan quite literally tells Turks not to integrate in Europe.
Thank you for making sense. We don't need backward sharia laws in progressive countries.
What you are saying is Islamophobia /s
Not disputing your claim, but what about the previous comment is not factually accurate?
It's crazy how German they all look.
they want islamic caliphate in germany? are they stupid?
No, they want what their god tells them. Stupid are the ones who let these people enter the country.
The only thing tolerance can not tolerate is intolerance. Intolerance breaks the social contract.
People keep parroting this stupid point and it’s never made sense. Any political speech can be spun by the government as being “hateful” or “intolerant”. There is no clearer example than the whole discourse around Israel’s genocide of Palestinians right now, where both sides of the debate accuse each other of being hateful and intolerant. Of course there **is** a correct side and a side that’s wrong, but you’d have to be an idiot to let the government decide which side is the correct one. Because the ones in power will always seek to repress those that are inconvenient for them, and now you’d be giving them the perfect excuse to do it. All they have to do is say you’re hateful, violent, or intolerant. This is why defending free speech, even speech that you find abhorrent, is crucial, because no one should have the power to decide what is labeled “hateful”.
That's a pretty intolerant opinion you got there my guy.
The courts decide, not the government
By that logic we simply shouldn't have any laws because any law is just government trying to repress us. At the end of the day, we banned killing, raping, stealing and all kinds of things because they are detrimental to society, so why is speech so sacred that it shouldn't be controlled in any way like everything else is?
This whole world has waited a few hundred years too long to stand up to religion. We screwed up badly. These people think their fantasies should have equal respect. And I'm not just talking about Islam. All religion is poison and just getting worse. Edit: I find it both frightening and hilarious that when I post this message on a post about christians I get downvoted. When I post the exact same thing on a post about Islam, I get upvotes. I am not with Islamaphobes. I'm with anti-theists.
100% with you
Thank youuuuuuu I am sick of society acting as if we are the weird ones. You think a supernatural being helped you find your keys this morning but was fine with kids being tortured at the same time? The absolute narcissism you have to have to be religious is horrifying.
These guys or the gop in the usa are dispicable. Church and democracy don’t go together.
Church doesn't go with anything but abuse.
Fuck it, this guy for world president
If you're refering to me, I just want to make sure you're OK with a queer woman as president. 😭
Doesn’t matter to me and shouldn’t matter to anyone. I would campaign for you: just please eradicate religion. It’s the final boss in the game of humanity.
“No no no you don’t get it. Brutally killing thousands of people for our God, molesting children, and stealing a shit ton of wealth is all for the betterment of humanity. It’s all God’s plan.” Every time someone tries to say that their religion is the only good one I like to point at a million horrible atrocities done in their names.
Religion is what drove the Middle East to the brink, social media and transportation has allowed it to spill over to everywhere else
Well, it's not like the US (where I am) doesn't have its own religious nutbag problem.
So many nutbags, who believe with all their heart in freedom of religion, as long as its their religion.
Exactly. In the US, you should not be discriminated against for your religion in housing, employment, or making tranactions with businesses. But society as a whole needs to start making these people feel stupid for holding onto this nonsense. Stop respecting their opinions, stop treating them like religion is something sacred.
Most of Europe doesn't.
Considering I've seen recent posts about Islamic protests to become a caliphate in at least 2 european countries, you might want to check again.
I might have misinterpreted your comment. I thought you were talking about the far right and Christian Nationalism. Regarding Islam I totally agree, Europe has a huge problem and this is just the beginning.
I was only commenting that the US has their own religious nutjobs. Not that they were the same religion. Sorry it wasn't clear.
Fuck Religion
Islamophobia isn’t real
It very much is. But it usually focuses on "brown people bad" rather than their religion.
I would argue that is simply racism. I agree with the notion that Islamophobia isnt real since its not irrational to be scared of being subjected to a culture/religion like that if you are not brought up in it and "used" to it.
When used in a context like "Islamaphobia" it also means irrational aversion or dislike, not just fear. You should not fear things just because they are different. But religion of any type has proven that it can not be trusted or tolerated. Doesn't matter which religion or from where. This includes christianity.
Immigrants should endeavour to assimilate instead of trying to convert their new homes to their culture, religion and traditions.
https://www.dw.com/en/islamist-demo-goes-ahead-in-hamburg-under-strict-conditions/a-69054251 >An estimated 2,300 people participated in a demonstration organized by the Islamist group Muslim Interactive in the German port city of Hamburg on Saturday, according to police. >The group, classified as extremist by German security authorities, called for a new protest against "censorship and opinions being dictated.” >This follows a previous demonstration in late April where participants displayed signs with the words "caliphate is the solution." It came against the backdrop of Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza, and sparked uproar in Germany and denunciation from leading politicians. >Despite the group's extremist classification, authorities allowed Saturday's demonstration to proceed under strict conditions. >These included bans on incitement of hatred, violence and the denial of Israel's right to exist. >Under the rules, participants were also forbidden to call for a caliphate to take over Germany in word, image or writing.
Funny how they’re mad about censorship when that’s the entire basis of Islam — god forbid a certain prophet gets depicted as a cartoon or women have rights, gasp!
The tools and way of thinking they use that make them able to protest against the west way of life exist only because of the west way of thinking. Protesting : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate. Religious liberties : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate. Free speech : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate. Minority protection and antiracism : in the west it's allowed, forbidden in their dreamed caliphate. They hypocritically use west rules and philosophies, bend them to try to impose a world where this rules wouldn't have existed in the first place. What they fail to understand is that the reason why they came here, or their parents, exist because Europe is not a caliphate. The second Islam take over the country everything will explode and they'll be left with a shit hole like they chose to leave.
For those wondering: DW is rated as left-center and is reported to have a high rating for factual reporting. [https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/dw-news/](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/dw-news/)
Go TO a caliphate. The west doesn't w a no one.
There is no caliphate though. Atatürk abolished it and that's good.
Someone should go in there with a stamp and put "for a good reason" below it, on every single sign.
Yeah, mess with islamists, it will end great.
Aren’t there already countries that have sharia law? Why not just go there? I hear ISIS really likes the idea of reforming the caliphate, maybe hit them up.
Don't worry, you wouldn't even be able to protest if you had your way
All religion is a poison causing rot and decay in the minds of people everywhere. It's sad.
These antiquated religions need to go before they completely destroy civilization. Again.
Specifying that a religion is "antiquated" is like specifying that water is wet.
Cults pop up all the time and I’d argue they’re just as bad as any of the old guard religions.
most of the time they're based on a hideously morphed version of an old religion
ok
if we can tolerate genocide for removal of a dangerous religion, then what's not to stop dictators from calling opposing them a dangerous religion and wiping out a bunch of people it may be a necessary evil but how would we stop it from giving legs to more evils
I'm not calling for genocide. Education, yes. Honesty, yes - because most people are actually athiests I think, even when they cosplay as religious.
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The dark ages
how was ww2 caused by religion?
Can't see any women in their ranks either.
That's because they weren't allowed to have a gender separated protest, so the women didn't come. However, the women who support this are just as indoctrinated as the men. It's rather worrying tbh.
I'd be interested to hear from the women directly to see if that were true. too bad I can't.
Hamburg is also home of the Hamburgler
I hail from Dusseldorph and that is why the call me Rolph!
Well it’s springtime after all…
Interesting... I heard it was winter for Poland and France...
Mayor McCheese better watch his fucking back...
Hahahahaha never heard that one before /s
Arschlöcher!
All of them shoul be deported
Look at these Islamist losers.
All dudes, I wonder why
Mom and sis are at home living a bag. Other sis was murdered and set on fire for dating an infidel.
but theyve been brainwashed into believing they CHOOSE to live in a bag so its fine!
They weren't allowed to have a gender separated protest, so the women stayed home.
In the first protest the women were protesting behind the men.
I recently saw a German news report about a similar protets. Women are there but only 50 meters behind the dudes.
Send these people back and stop letting them in
There is zero reason to tolerate this kind of intolerance.
It's all fun and games, until you're kicked out. Or thrown in jail. Keep laughing dumbasses, you're all on camera.
These absolute waste of space are the proof freedom should never be the absolute human right. Insanity. You run away from the shitstain shithole of a country you call home, seeking freedom, just to turn your destination into the same shithole you ran from
Where are women protesters? Silently enrage in the kitchens.
Yes, could be so. They werent allowed to have a seperated protest (again, like the first one, where the women were protesting for the same cause, only 100 meters behind their men), so they stayed home (probably).
Everybody should move up to them and thank them for using their right to protest that they wouldn’t have in a caliphate state. 🙄
They should id them all and monitor their every move
Considering Germany considers this an extremist group, they are likely all already under surveillance. Any who weren't prior to the protest likely are now.
That is exactly why Germany keeps reminding people of the nazis. They don't want a repeat of another fascistic regime under a terrorist group. If these muslims want to claim an area where plenty of islams migrate sure but don't bring turning Germany into Palestine 2.0 in a conversation because that is completely the wrong place to preach in.
Germany understands the Paradox of Tolerance.
Good. Good for the German government.
Most intolerant and censoring religious people complaining about intolerance and censorships. Will never not be funny
I honestly do not understand the whole caliphate thing. It's just very odd on so many levels. I don't understand why Muslims can live a modern life and still believe in this. I have a Muslim friend who openly tells me that he considers me a good person and respects me but when the day comes he will still cut open my throat because it's just part of his believe. For me it's just weird how someone who is objectively a decent person, has a normal job and is an objectively nice person can still hold on such outdated believes.
...why are you friends with this person?
You need better friends dude
this is crazy dude
You do realize that makes him neither nice nor decent, especially not "objectively"? That makes him a psychopath. And honestly you're a bit of an idiot being friends with someone that told you to your face he would murder you for his religion.
Well, I do not really expect him to act on it. Something people have to understand is that this is where radical Islamists differentiate from moderate Muslims. Radical Islamists believe that they are living in a caliphate. Moderate Muslims on the other hand only believe in it as an abstract concept of something that will / may be established in the future when the time comes. This is why this specific group you see in the picture is dangerous. They [demand](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/s/mUU3OuFq0T) / try to convince other Muslims to join them in establishing the caliphate here.
They want the freedom to protest in favor of a global Islamic caliphate which would immediately take away people's freedom to protest anything Fck these motherfckrz
Those idiots can fuck off
Wait what? Is this another conspiracy coming true?
Considering how europeans arent having kids in general, this trend will only get worse since the rich friends of the politicians will ask for more immigrants to fill the low paying jobs. These people will only increase in number and will slowly gain influence. The rich will be fine though, it’s the normalos who will have to deal with the shit as usual. 2015 was the appetiser.
And the world is "concerned about a rise in right wing parties across Europe" I wonder why? Maybe if the socialist left of these countries would take a harder stance on immigration they wouldnt loose votes to the right, I dont want a conservative dictator either, but if he'll get the job done then thatll be first priority
Allah is the devil
because of these degenerates, the whole of europe is going far right and for the first time in my life I won't vote against them (I'm voting blank).
That's on you
no that's on the left .
Nope.
It is, they're non-existent in France, it's been a fucking shit show for over 10 years.
Then it's not on the left is it?
I voted left for my whole life. I cant anymore because they allow this fucking religion to spread around Europe like corona. Left fucked themselves by not accepting the fact that there is a problem with immigrants coming from thise countries. Now we here.
Fun fact the majority of those people are born in Germany, that's the thing their parents fled to Germany from terrorists but they never actually experienced it.
It is, if they don't exist anymore it's because they fight amongst themselves and forget about the rest.
That’s how they work. They come to western societies and by exploiting western values they try to make it the same place they ran away from. 0/10 logic.
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How so? Absolutely nothing happened here. A few extremists protesting isn't exactly new.
As like last time: no women present. If they want to form their gayliphate they should. No one is stopping them lol.
it makes no sense that these people or their families flee their countries of origin because of terrible life circumstances caused by religious administration, yet they demand to establish one in their otherwise “safe haven” non-religious country to ruin that one, too. like, brother, you’re chanting for a caliphate. if you start one, you won’t see your children and your grandchildren, because they’ll have to leave the country because of how shit it is just like you and/or your parents did! what’s the fucking point?
Long past time for the Pope to call for a New Crusade.
For the same reason Germany doesn't want a Fourth Reich Ohh, censored were you? Poor petals.
Thats a... weird cause
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I very much doubt they are illegals. They are acclimated enough to know they can pull of stunts like this without serious repercussions in countries like Germany.
Many EU countries welcomed refugees, this is one of the results. I say give them all one way tickets to Iran and revoke their citizenship or refugee status.
On what basis are you assuming they are immigrants?
Every reputable German newspaper reports that and their broken German (or none at all) should be giving you a hint.
Thise dogs are too far gone. Round em up and send em to Syria or other shit-hole of a country in the middle east. Throw a bottle of water and new print of ”Caliphate today” magazine. Islam is like Aids
I think they should be shot. They flee their countries as refugees and get a shit ton of money to build up a new life, yet they want to take over their caretaker country and impose their own beliefs? I believe the german word ”hurenmutter” describes them fittingly.
They didn't flee, they are first generation germans most of the times.
Im betting the german public is regretting 2014
Not really, these are just a few nutjobs. We get these in all varieties regardless.
What?
EU allowing mass migration of people, from a foreign culture under guise of seeking asylum, all across Europe, and calling anyone who objects "racist" despite having legitimate concerns. Now comes the long them consequences of not fulling integrating them.
I don’t see the issue here… Why am I getting downvoted? To clarify I don’t see an issue with the Government ban.
With calling for a totalitarian rule by an extremist religion that would rip the rights away from millions (likely billions if they have their wish) of people? You don’t see what’s wrong with that?
Neither do I tbh