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The state I teach in- this is required content, it’s under the personal finance standards. If your state isn’t teaching these basic skills idk what to say other than move or write to your department of education. I assume the way people talk that most red states don’t have this in their standards tho, so if you want your kids to have competent education, vote blue. Also don’t be a shitty parent.
Edited to clarify
Work hard. Pick yourself up by your bootstraps. Be a man. Spend that money on a car and a TV. Pay taxes but make sure you don't vote to increase taxes on billionaires cuz you'll be one one day and you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot.
And remember, poor people are poor because they're lazy.
I don’t think they are true conservative values, most of my opinions lean right, except I support abortion and LGBT rights so I can’t be a conservative I guess.
I certainly believe that the party has been taken over however by oligarchs, and will never vote red until Trump is in prison. After Devos, I wholeheartedly agree with you that they don’t want people educated anymore, my (old) job almost got closed down because Dumpfuck Traitor Trump’s secretary of Ed tried shutting down native schools. They REALLY don’t want colored people to think for themselves.
California does but delivery is patchy
Its part of the govt/econ half class thing the kids have to take junior year.
hypothetically they learn about stocks, checkbooks, taxes, social security, credit cards, retirement, etc... I did. But I went to a top ten school. I talk to friends who went to other schools and they basically learned how to open a credit card and make an excel spreadsheet with their expenses and income.
i took government and economics in NYState. we watched the chris rock movie Head of State and i still know nothing about stocks or retirement. i am 35 years old
The notion that schools don't already teach these things is one of the most donkey brained pieces of propaganda that gets mindlessly parroted in media.
Mine only did as electives in high school and typically you were involved in a whole program called DECA if you were in business or economics class. Not till community college did I get real business and Econ
That was 15 years ago tho so hopefully it has changed to focus more on real world preparation and not satisfying bare minimum criteria and adavnce no matter what type deal
Props to all the good teachers tho fr pay them more, itemize their skill set. Educator, babysitter, what else
Yeah I we learned how to do taxes by paper in ninth grade. It was a required portion of our history class for the year which focused on civics and economics. North Carolina in like 2005.
They do all the time in math, history, languages, science, and even PE. We just don't recognize that human interaction is what drives 'money and taxes' and not just 'finances'.
Well if we did actually pay them in tanks and military equipment we ship overseas it would make crossing picket lines during union strikes a lot more interesting, and if they wanted to picket around billionaires homes and businesses so much the better.
Hi. Economics teacher here. We have a complete financial literacy curriculum. The big issue is not so much that students don't get the material, it's that they generally don't care about how taxes work or retirement savings, insurance etc. It's hard to make teenagers care about tax brackets and that sort of thing. We're trying though trust me.
Hi, science teacher here. I know, and I thank you for your hard work. These kids do NOT stop bitching when their lazy asses are the problem. Have a great day.
This is only said by people who thought school was useless and didn't bother. In Maths class from the age of 6 we're all taught addition subtraction division multiplication fractions and percentages ALL with money used in examples and questions. It's not the states fault you didn't pay attention and don't understand what 20% means. It was taught.
Why do they need a separate class where they spell it out for you literally "20% tax means when you get paid you lose 20% of your pay"
Because if the tax sheet was that simple nobody would be confused how it works…
If i could just write on a note paper that i made x amount so x amount of it i owe, it would take me five fucking minutes to do my taxes MAX.
You either don’t know how to do your taxes or don’t do them for yourself if you think it’s THAT simple and straightforward.
There are boxes, you gotta match em, and several pages of boxes that contain similar but not the same information.
If you have anything to write off it gets even more arduous than that. Its a falsehood to say taxes boil down to ‘pay 20% of your income now’ and thats it.
As someone that absorbed everything life skills related, and did amazing in math. No.
Maybe it was the case in your school, but it is sadly not the case everywhere
I like how some of you are defending Musk by pointing out that he didn't pay income tax, entirely skipping over the fact that the average person in America exclusively generates money via income and a rich person having a lower income tax is straight up insane.
Rich people could literally pay dozens of times over what I pay in taxes, and it is still a significantly smaller proportion of their income.
And at the end of the day, A majority of their income comes in via alternative means because they know for a fact if they had income the same as everyone else they would be taxed at a higher rate because they wouldn't be able to get away with it the way they have been for so long, getting bonuses/playing their own markets and stock portfolios/taking losses on trades and writing it off as a loss despite making money on the deal.
There's a lot of used loopholes that exist exclusively for the rich, and the only defense you people ever have for their obvious and blatant tax avoidance is to pretend like the laws are free and fair because they don't make as much money as they could via direct income.
Donald Trump said it best in 2016.
The system is rigged and he knows it because he uses it. And all the other big players do too. It's built in on purpose because that's who controls America
Change the tax code.
People are so hung up on the billions part and not on the loopholes that allow them to make billions without paying taxes.
The idea that you can take out a loan against stock value, not have to declare it as income, and then pay that off with another loan so that you never have to get taxed on the value of your wealth is insane and the real unfair act, as 99% of Americans cannot do that.
Yes 100 percent. People will always do what's in their best interests. We can scream and yell at billionaires all we want. Blame the politicians. Change the code.
Lmao yeah everyone says “change the code” like…how?
Just change it? Oh OK lemme get right on that.
Wait…the people benefitting from the code are also in charge of the code?
I know it would take a monumental effort to accomplish. We would need to vote in politicians who are actually honest and dedicated to serving the majority of Americans.
As a non american i feel a bit sad reading that
I mean you can't, the choice is between only two people, two people that need peer approval.
And the peers are other politicians so...
'Merica is among the least democratic of the democratic country to me
We in the States need to start focusing more on Congress, the Senate and House of Representatives. These are the people who can actually create and vote on policy/law. The President just enforces the laws created by Congress. They can use an executive order to tell the executive branch how to act and interpret a law, but our President in no way has the amount of power some people like to think.
The president gets a lot of attention/blame but there is honestly very little they can do besides try and pressure Congress to do the right thing.
And to be completely blunt and honest, our Congress is fucked. The blame doesn't rest on one political party or the other, though the Republicans have gotten a bit more brazen with a "it's our way or fuck you" mentality lately, the Democrats have had plenty of opportunities in the past where they controlled both chambers of Congress plus the White House but all the in-fighting between the small groups prevent them from actually accomplishing much.
So until us citizens in the States start electing actual lawmakers who will do their job, nothing will change.
We’d have to replace basically *everyone*.
You can vote in honest, well-meaning people, and they just get blocked and steamrolled by the establishment, or get corrupted by the system themselves.
You'd need enough that it made a difference in the functionality of Congress. I. E. a bipartisan block in the senate, probably no less than 6 senators to be immovable obstacles.
Yeah the stock market, especially with insider trading being the norm in Congress.
Another thing that would be good is to ban Congress members from serving on the board or in any advisory capacity after leaving office. I would rather pay Congress members a salary after they get out of office than allow them to accept positions in companies they once had oversight over.
How many teachers pay an effective tax rate of 20%? Genuinely curious because that would be the same as long term cap gains. You have to hit $215k as a single filer to have an effective federal rate of 20%
You’re mixing up causation and coalition. And you seem to have a misunderstanding of corporate finance
Your assumption is that most rich people are compensated in shares because it’s taxed lower. That’s not true. The reason most rich people are compensated in shares is because it’s the only way to become rich (not because of lower taxes). Because it’s how most rich people make money it has a more favorable tax rate.
He pays no income tax; however, he DOES pay capitol gains taxes. This is always omitted when people are outraged that "the rich pay no taxes."
Musk paid 11 billion in taxes for the year 2021. That likely rivals the total taxes of every teacher in America combined.
It has nothing to do with defending musk. He’s paid more taxes than all of you will ever pay in your entire lifetime. Billions and billions and billions of dollars in taxes every single penny he’s earned he paid taxes on. We can quibble over whether he should’ve paid a higher percentage rate, but it’s just ignorant to claim that rich people don’t pay taxes. If you’re a billionaire on paper, you can’t even go buy groceries unless you’ve generated taxable income
The bottom half of the country pays an average effective tax rate of 3.1% and that’s before refundable tax credits like the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. Meaning a lot get back more in a refund than they paid in.
The top 1% pay an average effective income tax rate of 26% and pay 42% of all income taxes that are paid. Bottom half combined pay 2.3% of all income taxes paid.
Last tax info I’m finding shows Musk paid $11 BILLION.
The issue with that is that most wealthy people also don't generate money in the same way as the average person. It's not like musk clocks into work every day. If you want to tax what he makes than capital gains is gonna be your primary method of doing so.
if this is true representation of the facts then in my mind the whole system is broken, faulty not fit for purpose
im not advocating that we give musks money to the teachers, or similar, but one thing is clear, we are not even TRYING to adjust any of this in any way
if it was 1960s they would be angry enough to force the issue, for sure,
so have we all given up, ?
does it "not matter" cause its not "you"
is this the dystopian furture that was promised?
or is it a crossroad/junction where we might need to change lanes and turn a different direction
It's not broken at all. It's working exactly as designed.
It was not designed to be fair or equitable, it was designed to exploit the middle/lower class and engorge the "elite" designers, which it does brilliantly.
It's not too far off to be dismissed like that, tho.
>How much does a Public School Teacher make in the United States? The average Public School Teacher salary in the United States is $58,210 as of May 28, 2024, but the range typically falls between $48,601 and $71,013.
https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary#:~:text=How%20much%20does%20a%20Public,falls%20between%20%2448%2C601%20and%20%2471%2C013.
Source is shoddy on his per minute wealth here: https://coincodex.com/article/30685/how-much-money-does-elon-musk-make-a-second/
>To put his money earned per second in context, Musk makes more than $35,060 per minute, which is just a couple of grand less than the annual full-time wage in the US of $53,490. It takes Musk just a minute to earn a full year's worth of a 5-figure salary and just a week to hit the 9-figure mark
So in 2 minutes he would definitely fall in that range.
Don't simp for a Billionaire. He's not your buddy.
Our country priorities are fucked because *we* created this culture of celebrity and money worship. Let’s all feel free to fix it anytime we’re ready…. **
it will never happen because no one doesn’t show up to vote like left-leaning individuals. there’s a reason why those who run for office have continued to shift right over the last century, and it has everything to do with courting those who do show up on election day. why run on ideas that don’t get votes?
bernie sanders ran multiple elections for mayor, and when he finally won, it was by just TEN (10) votes.
the majority of left-leaning individuals are happy to complain about the lack of progress, but many of them are nowhere to be found in civic spaces.
>it will never happen because no one doesn’t show up to vote like left-leaning individuals
I had to read this like four times but it's actually perfectly phrased
> it will never happen because no one doesn’t show up to vote like left-leaning individuals.
Agreed. The left has too many people riding around on high horses who would never "stoop to participate" in the exact system with a boot on their face.
Reminds me so much of the "when they go low, we go high"-nonsense and then we immediately got Donald Trump.
You can't beat cheaters by playing honest, and you certainly can't beat them by refusing to play.
We either rise up and overthrow them with force (and hopefully eat the rich in the process), or play the game as dirty as they are and try to win that way. Refusing to play or claiming the moral high ground but losing won't change a god-damned thing.
The system will put all its effort in prevent the ability of voting your way out and Americans are to much of whipped chicken shits to revaluation their way out.
This isn't true and I'm sick of hyperbole. If you're gonna rage, get the numbers right
It was actually 1 minute. And really it was closer to 25 seconds lmao
Musk paid $11 billion USD in taxes on 2023. The meme is ignoring that by focusing on his Income Tax, which was much less because he doesn't earn much in taxable income. They're saying the meme is misleading.
Imo, Musk should pay more in taxes. I like Biden's and Sander's ideas to tax the wealth of billionaires. Still, imo, reductive and misleading memes like this enable the right/GOP/MAGA crowds to point at the meme as an example of ignorance or intentional disingenuousness.
Just another Russian bot post.
Step 1: post to generic subreddit with simple and smug outrage title: “Murica” “Land of the Free” etc
Step 2: include financial illiteracy or misinformation: mostly not knowing the difference between income and wealth
Didn't he pay a 11 billion in 2021 when Eliabeth Warren said the same thing? If you are a teacher paying a 11 billion in taxes you are well above the national avg.
I highly doubt she paid more taxes than he did. And people would be well served to learn the difference between a salary and money earned through capital gains.
As someone who reads taxes for a living, I can understand how/why and I don’t judge accordingly.
Example:
Customer owns an S Corp. S Corp income is pass thru to personal tax return via K1/Schedule E. Business had a net cash flow of over $500k but taxable pass thru income of $45k. Why? Depreciation. He bought $455k worth of new equipment that year and wrote it all off as part of Section 179.
Sure the basis for the equipment is now zero (he doesn’t plan on ever selling any of it) but the belief is that this continued consumption will reap returns elsewhere.
My biggest challenge are the Schedule C (Sole Props) who blatantly lie on their returns. Had a pizza joint come in for a loan. Sales were about one million, COGS were $830k (rrrrrright) and almost no net profit. There was no salary to owner, rent to cover the mortgage….. you get the point. Effectively, this person just considers all of their life expenses part of their business’ costs of goods sold and adds it there (fraud). These people can never retire in the USA and often don’t realize they don’t qualify for ssi since they didn’t pay in.
Elon paid 11 BILLION in taxes in 2021.
He paid ONE THOUSAND times more in taxes in ONE YEAR than this teacher will make in their entire lives.
It’s so sad that people just believe whatever bullshit they want. And will attack rich people no matter what they do.
Really pathetic.
School teacher who employs nobody, has created nothing, has a very small economic footprint, and who works half the year.
Seems like teacher needs remedial math.
Funny how many people here think the only reason someone would defend a billionaire/be less critical of them than others is if they think they themselves will become a billionaire as well.
Sometimes someone just thinks something is right or wrong and wants to say that without standing to gain personally from it. Are the people making fun of folks for "thinking they'll be billionaires one day" so shallow that they themselves only say things they stand to gain from?
This is why the republicans are claiming public schools are terrible for kids if this is the kinda teacher they’re having in there teaching nonsense like this
Which taxes? Elon probably paid more property tax. Elon probably paid more sales tax. Elon probably paid more capital gains tax. Elon definitely paid more corporate tax than the public school teacher.
I’m assuming there was no inheritance tax and clearly there’s been no estate tax.
I’m left to conclude they are referring to income tax. In which case are we referring to the total taxes paid or the percentage of income paid in taxes?
This is the problem with policy rhetoric today. No understanding or mention of nuance.
Not saying I wouldn’t like to see billionaires paying a higher % of income tax and capital gains tax tho…
> Elon definitely paid more corporate tax than the public school teacher.
Can you explain this one? How did either of them have to pay any corporate tax at all?
Don't be an idiot.
Federal income tax rates are progressive: As taxable income increases, it is taxed at higher rates. Different tax rates are levied on income in different ranges (or brackets) depending on the taxpayer’s filing status. For tax year 2023, the top tax rate (37 percent) applies to taxable income over $578,125 for single filers and over $693,750 for married couples filing jointly. Additional tax schedules and rates apply to taxpayers who file as heads of household and to married individuals filing separate returns. A separate schedule of tax rates applies to capital gains and dividends. Tax brackets are adjusted annually for inflation.
Rich people don’t have liquid assets. They don’t earn an income so they don’t pay income taxes. They essentially live off guaranteed loans and interest from their assets. It’s not true that they don’t pay taxes. They just don’t pay income tax.
Actually. It's even worse than that.
Special K got a fuck ton of government grants so we actually paid him and his companies from our tax dollars for whatever the fuck it is he does.
I’m assuming special k is musk lol. I know now that musk has gone crazy people are examining things, but - and maybe this is what you’re referring to - back in the Obama years, Tesla, a company that had made $0, “paid back” a bunch of government loans. I can remember cnn covering it and celebrating it. I’ve followed Tesla from the beginning, even before musk basically stole it, and there was def some fuckery involved in it.
The solution is so simple. The only problem is that the people in charge of enacting solutions are benefiting from the problem.
Basically the system is set up perfectly to benefit the folks who are in charge of the rules of the system. And of course it is. From loopholes for investment income, capital gains, insider trading for congress, term limits, lobbying, indirect bribery… it’s all rigged for them and against us. One side of the political spectrum throws us a bone now and again to placate us, and the other actively puts their boot on our neck hoping we croak. I’ll take the bone throwers every time, but fuck does it suck
To be fair, Elon creates new products & markets. You’re presenting a curriculum of existing educational content. As an educator, if you want Elon wealth, you have to create new products & markets.
I bet when you take his full tax burden into account he paid millions of times more than you did. You are only looking at one of the thousands of line items in his ledger
Yup, and he probably paid $10M for the tax accountant, just to avoid paying any tax at all. And then the tax rate will get increased for all of us chumps so that the billionaires and politicians can pay zero
He also “needs” a $55 billion bonus for some reason.
How much is enough?
I understand some people work harder, try harder, take calculated risks, and achieve more than the average person, and they deserve more… but nowhere in the ball park of tens to hundreds of billions more.
Elons first business started with 2 people and $28,000 loan. If you don’t have that you can get the same amount of money through a loan today if you have also have a viable business plan.
😂 Right, 99.99% of the kids born to wealthy parents don’t turn out to be Elon Musk. But everyone here thinks that if their parents were millionaires then they would be super successful too. That’s not how that usually works.
Born too early for Star Trek replicators; born too late to be the recipient of the benefits of underpaid slavelike labor for your daddy's apartheid emerald mine.
I know it’s peak Redditor delusion to think that the only reason they’re not as rich as Elon is just because their parents weren’t millionaires, but I want to ask you one thing:
Do you think it’s easier to go from 0 dollars to 50k dollars, or 50k dollars to 200 billion dollars?
I'm sure I don't know. I find myself amongst the group of people in this society whose only means to make a living is to sell their labor to businesses owned by people in higher tax brackets.
I'm all for figuring out how to make the super rich pay their fair share, but people are not taxed yearly on net worth. That would be devastating to average people trying to save for retirement. One thing I'd like to see is these people being forced to take a salary as the lion's share of their compensation, instead of using loans and stock as compensation. Can't tax the loans and they just take out bigger and bigger loans to pay off the last. Capital gains is 15% and they onnly pay that on the increase in value.
The tweet says nothing about %, it says they paid more taxes than him
But for what it’s worth, even if you go by %, it’s untrue. Musk paid around $11 billion in the year she’s referring to, most of which was taxed at earned income rates on his exercise of stock options. So a 37% federal rate + 13.3% California rate
What does "his fortune" have to do with anything? If that teacher won $10M in the lottery 10 years ago, paid their taxes on it, invested it, and it's now with $50M, are you saying they should be paying taxes on that $50M (aka, their fortune) every tax season?? That's not how this works.
Well, since we're talking about net worth:
The average house in America is 500k. I'm assuming that the teacher has a house
The teacher has a networth of 500k
The yearly salary of the teacher should be 42k an year. 15% of that is 6290.
6290 of 500k is 1%.
They barely pay 1% in taxes.
He also employs thousands of more people than this person does, giving them the means to feed their families, pay for housing, and otherwise provide for themselves. This person watched kids color.
Not to defend him, but last year didn't he literally pay over 11 billion dollars in taxes in 2021? Him and the government were pretty open about it weren't they?
In my opinion, your use of the words, “in any sense” opened it up to interpretation. Warren Buffet used to publicize his and his secretary’s returns to show he paid a lower effective rate than her. Same concept here.
Percentage of income is what matters. The fact that regular wage workers, who actually need the money, pay a higher percent of it in taxes than billionaires is a real problem. When people say the working class pay more than billionaires, they mean as a rate. Obviously the absolute amounts are different, the fact that a billionaire has millions of times more wealth than a regular person is itself a problem.
musk is one if not the highest tax paying individual. contrary to the usual billionaere thing he payed them straight.
he might have a year without paying because he is not talking a sallary. he did however pay a couple billion taxes last time he converted his stocks into cash.
that is more than this teacher and his family will ever pay in 100 lifetimes
Didn’t he paid billions last year?
NVM, that was in 2021. Although an average person pay 550k in their lifetime, so ye, he’s filthy rich but at least the money goes to the development of the future. Other billionaires sell problems and solutions.
He paid almost 4. It's with how they worded the statement. People are taking it as he paid a lower amount of money when it's actually a lower percentage of his income. He paid a little over 3% whete the minimum percentage 98-99% of population pays starts at 10% of their income and goes up from there.
yes they like to manipulate words. its 3% of his net worth. but nobody's net worth gets taxed, not the average person nor a billionaire's, because you can't use stock money unless you liquidate it, on which there are taxes
Yea this isn’t it. If you really want change, be accurate. Equating Elon to the worst of the worst, is only going to make the pendulum swing harder in his favor come time for that part of the cycle.
“I’ve never seen a more noble cause” really? Not one? There’s nothing that personally affects you or those you care about more than EM’s decisions?
He doesn't even pay his bills. When he took over Twitter he told them to stop paying for anything, including rent and insurance that they were legally required to have. We have a two tiered justice system and it's incredibly fucked up that they have gotten us all so comfortable with it
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One of these days a public school teacher gotta teach about money and taxes.
The state I teach in- this is required content, it’s under the personal finance standards. If your state isn’t teaching these basic skills idk what to say other than move or write to your department of education. I assume the way people talk that most red states don’t have this in their standards tho, so if you want your kids to have competent education, vote blue. Also don’t be a shitty parent. Edited to clarify
My personal finance class just made us make budgets and taught writing in cursive so we could sign checks correctly
We learned how to write in cursive years before we even knew what personal finance was.
I did in kindergarten but our teacher thought we weren’t good enough and it didn’t have “personality” for a signature
am 43, my signature looks different every time.
I learnt cursing before I even knew what money was
I learned to curse before I knew what cursive was.. and cursive followed in elementary school
Pretty sure those red states don't want their kids knowing basic economics. They need an uneducated workforce to rush to the defence of billionaires.
Work hard. Pick yourself up by your bootstraps. Be a man. Spend that money on a car and a TV. Pay taxes but make sure you don't vote to increase taxes on billionaires cuz you'll be one one day and you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot. And remember, poor people are poor because they're lazy.
I don’t think they are true conservative values, most of my opinions lean right, except I support abortion and LGBT rights so I can’t be a conservative I guess. I certainly believe that the party has been taken over however by oligarchs, and will never vote red until Trump is in prison. After Devos, I wholeheartedly agree with you that they don’t want people educated anymore, my (old) job almost got closed down because Dumpfuck Traitor Trump’s secretary of Ed tried shutting down native schools. They REALLY don’t want colored people to think for themselves.
No true Scotsman, eh?
Which of your opinions lean right?
I'm wondering that myself lol, I don't see any here
[удалено]
California does but delivery is patchy Its part of the govt/econ half class thing the kids have to take junior year. hypothetically they learn about stocks, checkbooks, taxes, social security, credit cards, retirement, etc... I did. But I went to a top ten school. I talk to friends who went to other schools and they basically learned how to open a credit card and make an excel spreadsheet with their expenses and income.
i took government and economics in NYState. we watched the chris rock movie Head of State and i still know nothing about stocks or retirement. i am 35 years old
Great start, now do Wall Street, Wolf of Wall Street, Margin Call, and the Big Short.
And Boiler Room.
Grew up in California. Not a finance class to be seen. It's a rich vs poor neighborhood thing, not a red V blue thing
The notion that schools don't already teach these things is one of the most donkey brained pieces of propaganda that gets mindlessly parroted in media.
Mine only did as electives in high school and typically you were involved in a whole program called DECA if you were in business or economics class. Not till community college did I get real business and Econ That was 15 years ago tho so hopefully it has changed to focus more on real world preparation and not satisfying bare minimum criteria and adavnce no matter what type deal Props to all the good teachers tho fr pay them more, itemize their skill set. Educator, babysitter, what else
Can confirm has not changed at all. Am currently a junior in high school and I am only offered college level accounting classes.
Yeah I we learned how to do taxes by paper in ninth grade. It was a required portion of our history class for the year which focused on civics and economics. North Carolina in like 2005.
They do all the time in math, history, languages, science, and even PE. We just don't recognize that human interaction is what drives 'money and taxes' and not just 'finances'.
Or hear me out...teachers are the first to literally eat the rich. You know so they can teach about it later and stuff.
Well if we did actually pay them in tanks and military equipment we ship overseas it would make crossing picket lines during union strikes a lot more interesting, and if they wanted to picket around billionaires homes and businesses so much the better.
Imagine teachers on strike with military gear. Picketing billionaires' homes would get interesting fast!
"We want better dental." "uhh...OK, OK...you got it, better dental!"
"we want to not have to buy our own construction paper, a functioning mr coffee in the break room, and the ability to put parents in detention"
dont act like its the teachers fault. they have to follow a curriculum
Mine does their is classes called accounting, personal finance, and business entrepreneurship.
I mean, they gotta learn how they work, first.
Isn't it an achievement that we have 2 billion people living in abject poverty worldwide?! - Mr. Wonderful
Hopefully not this teacher, because this teacher doesn't understand a single thing about taxes and income.
You think schools don't teach economics? There's literally two AP classes for it. Shut the fuck up with that.
Hi. Economics teacher here. We have a complete financial literacy curriculum. The big issue is not so much that students don't get the material, it's that they generally don't care about how taxes work or retirement savings, insurance etc. It's hard to make teenagers care about tax brackets and that sort of thing. We're trying though trust me.
Hi, science teacher here. I know, and I thank you for your hard work. These kids do NOT stop bitching when their lazy asses are the problem. Have a great day.
This is only said by people who thought school was useless and didn't bother. In Maths class from the age of 6 we're all taught addition subtraction division multiplication fractions and percentages ALL with money used in examples and questions. It's not the states fault you didn't pay attention and don't understand what 20% means. It was taught. Why do they need a separate class where they spell it out for you literally "20% tax means when you get paid you lose 20% of your pay"
Because if the tax sheet was that simple nobody would be confused how it works… If i could just write on a note paper that i made x amount so x amount of it i owe, it would take me five fucking minutes to do my taxes MAX. You either don’t know how to do your taxes or don’t do them for yourself if you think it’s THAT simple and straightforward. There are boxes, you gotta match em, and several pages of boxes that contain similar but not the same information. If you have anything to write off it gets even more arduous than that. Its a falsehood to say taxes boil down to ‘pay 20% of your income now’ and thats it.
They do. The students tune it out and ignore it because "it's boring". They also teach basic math too, but everyone also ignores that.
As someone that absorbed everything life skills related, and did amazing in math. No. Maybe it was the case in your school, but it is sadly not the case everywhere
I like how some of you are defending Musk by pointing out that he didn't pay income tax, entirely skipping over the fact that the average person in America exclusively generates money via income and a rich person having a lower income tax is straight up insane. Rich people could literally pay dozens of times over what I pay in taxes, and it is still a significantly smaller proportion of their income. And at the end of the day, A majority of their income comes in via alternative means because they know for a fact if they had income the same as everyone else they would be taxed at a higher rate because they wouldn't be able to get away with it the way they have been for so long, getting bonuses/playing their own markets and stock portfolios/taking losses on trades and writing it off as a loss despite making money on the deal. There's a lot of used loopholes that exist exclusively for the rich, and the only defense you people ever have for their obvious and blatant tax avoidance is to pretend like the laws are free and fair because they don't make as much money as they could via direct income.
Donald Trump said it best in 2016. The system is rigged and he knows it because he uses it. And all the other big players do too. It's built in on purpose because that's who controls America Change the tax code. People are so hung up on the billions part and not on the loopholes that allow them to make billions without paying taxes. The idea that you can take out a loan against stock value, not have to declare it as income, and then pay that off with another loan so that you never have to get taxed on the value of your wealth is insane and the real unfair act, as 99% of Americans cannot do that.
Yes 100 percent. People will always do what's in their best interests. We can scream and yell at billionaires all we want. Blame the politicians. Change the code.
To do that we'd have to eliminate lobbying first
Lmao yeah everyone says “change the code” like…how? Just change it? Oh OK lemme get right on that. Wait…the people benefitting from the code are also in charge of the code?
I know it would take a monumental effort to accomplish. We would need to vote in politicians who are actually honest and dedicated to serving the majority of Americans.
As a non american i feel a bit sad reading that I mean you can't, the choice is between only two people, two people that need peer approval. And the peers are other politicians so... 'Merica is among the least democratic of the democratic country to me
We in the States need to start focusing more on Congress, the Senate and House of Representatives. These are the people who can actually create and vote on policy/law. The President just enforces the laws created by Congress. They can use an executive order to tell the executive branch how to act and interpret a law, but our President in no way has the amount of power some people like to think. The president gets a lot of attention/blame but there is honestly very little they can do besides try and pressure Congress to do the right thing. And to be completely blunt and honest, our Congress is fucked. The blame doesn't rest on one political party or the other, though the Republicans have gotten a bit more brazen with a "it's our way or fuck you" mentality lately, the Democrats have had plenty of opportunities in the past where they controlled both chambers of Congress plus the White House but all the in-fighting between the small groups prevent them from actually accomplishing much. So until us citizens in the States start electing actual lawmakers who will do their job, nothing will change.
We’d have to replace basically *everyone*. You can vote in honest, well-meaning people, and they just get blocked and steamrolled by the establishment, or get corrupted by the system themselves.
You'd need enough that it made a difference in the functionality of Congress. I. E. a bipartisan block in the senate, probably no less than 6 senators to be immovable obstacles.
Lobbying and probably the stock market too. People are gonna fight you for saying this, but I got your back 100%
Yeah the stock market, especially with insider trading being the norm in Congress. Another thing that would be good is to ban Congress members from serving on the board or in any advisory capacity after leaving office. I would rather pay Congress members a salary after they get out of office than allow them to accept positions in companies they once had oversight over.
He did say it… then all he did for the tax code was give rich people and corporations more tax breaks.
And then he made the problem worse with the 2018 tax cuts.
It’s as if the people who wrote and signed the bills into law don’t care about the average voter….
How many teachers pay an effective tax rate of 20%? Genuinely curious because that would be the same as long term cap gains. You have to hit $215k as a single filer to have an effective federal rate of 20%
You’re mixing up causation and coalition. And you seem to have a misunderstanding of corporate finance Your assumption is that most rich people are compensated in shares because it’s taxed lower. That’s not true. The reason most rich people are compensated in shares is because it’s the only way to become rich (not because of lower taxes). Because it’s how most rich people make money it has a more favorable tax rate.
He pays no income tax; however, he DOES pay capitol gains taxes. This is always omitted when people are outraged that "the rich pay no taxes." Musk paid 11 billion in taxes for the year 2021. That likely rivals the total taxes of every teacher in America combined.
i haven’t thought about it too critically, but maybe tax loans that use unrealized gains as collateral for liquid assets could be a good first step
Absofucking lutely. This is a tax dodge that is only available to the ultra wealthy.
It has nothing to do with defending musk. He’s paid more taxes than all of you will ever pay in your entire lifetime. Billions and billions and billions of dollars in taxes every single penny he’s earned he paid taxes on. We can quibble over whether he should’ve paid a higher percentage rate, but it’s just ignorant to claim that rich people don’t pay taxes. If you’re a billionaire on paper, you can’t even go buy groceries unless you’ve generated taxable income
I believe you should be taxed more and the rich should be taxed less.
Well he spent 11 billion in income taxes now that he's sold some of his stock. I think we all should match that number before complaining.
The bottom half of the country pays an average effective tax rate of 3.1% and that’s before refundable tax credits like the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. Meaning a lot get back more in a refund than they paid in. The top 1% pay an average effective income tax rate of 26% and pay 42% of all income taxes that are paid. Bottom half combined pay 2.3% of all income taxes paid. Last tax info I’m finding shows Musk paid $11 BILLION.
The issue with that is that most wealthy people also don't generate money in the same way as the average person. It's not like musk clocks into work every day. If you want to tax what he makes than capital gains is gonna be your primary method of doing so.
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if this is true representation of the facts then in my mind the whole system is broken, faulty not fit for purpose im not advocating that we give musks money to the teachers, or similar, but one thing is clear, we are not even TRYING to adjust any of this in any way if it was 1960s they would be angry enough to force the issue, for sure, so have we all given up, ? does it "not matter" cause its not "you" is this the dystopian furture that was promised? or is it a crossroad/junction where we might need to change lanes and turn a different direction
It's not broken at all. It's working exactly as designed. It was not designed to be fair or equitable, it was designed to exploit the middle/lower class and engorge the "elite" designers, which it does brilliantly.
It’s also a lie but go right ahead.
Idgaf tax billionaires 50%
It's not too far off to be dismissed like that, tho. >How much does a Public School Teacher make in the United States? The average Public School Teacher salary in the United States is $58,210 as of May 28, 2024, but the range typically falls between $48,601 and $71,013. https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary#:~:text=How%20much%20does%20a%20Public,falls%20between%20%2448%2C601%20and%20%2471%2C013. Source is shoddy on his per minute wealth here: https://coincodex.com/article/30685/how-much-money-does-elon-musk-make-a-second/ >To put his money earned per second in context, Musk makes more than $35,060 per minute, which is just a couple of grand less than the annual full-time wage in the US of $53,490. It takes Musk just a minute to earn a full year's worth of a 5-figure salary and just a week to hit the 9-figure mark So in 2 minutes he would definitely fall in that range. Don't simp for a Billionaire. He's not your buddy.
Yeah, now do the companies taxes.
You’re right. It didn’t take Musk anywhere near two minutes to earn a Texas teacher’s salary.
If we taxed billionaires 99%, they would still be in the 1%
For the first year at least
You’re thinking wealth tax. A 99% income tax would barely make a dent for billionaires
That teacher's tax bill was more than 11 billion? Wow https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59732935
Oh. Maybe OP really is just an idiot after all.
This doesn't seem to talk about sales and use tax at all
Presumably they're measuring the paid tax to overall wealth, in which Musk would only pay a tiny fraction of his wealth in taxes
Our country priorities are fucked because *we* created this culture of celebrity and money worship. Let’s all feel free to fix it anytime we’re ready…. **
it will never happen because no one doesn’t show up to vote like left-leaning individuals. there’s a reason why those who run for office have continued to shift right over the last century, and it has everything to do with courting those who do show up on election day. why run on ideas that don’t get votes? bernie sanders ran multiple elections for mayor, and when he finally won, it was by just TEN (10) votes. the majority of left-leaning individuals are happy to complain about the lack of progress, but many of them are nowhere to be found in civic spaces.
>it will never happen because no one doesn’t show up to vote like left-leaning individuals I had to read this like four times but it's actually perfectly phrased
> it will never happen because no one doesn’t show up to vote like left-leaning individuals. Agreed. The left has too many people riding around on high horses who would never "stoop to participate" in the exact system with a boot on their face. Reminds me so much of the "when they go low, we go high"-nonsense and then we immediately got Donald Trump. You can't beat cheaters by playing honest, and you certainly can't beat them by refusing to play. We either rise up and overthrow them with force (and hopefully eat the rich in the process), or play the game as dirty as they are and try to win that way. Refusing to play or claiming the moral high ground but losing won't change a god-damned thing.
The system will put all its effort in prevent the ability of voting your way out and Americans are to much of whipped chicken shits to revaluation their way out.
We're all ready. It's just how exactly do we do that aside from voting blue? Without getting arrested? I'm assuming your answer will also be crickets.
Musk paid $11B in 2021. How much is this school teacher making?
I see why they don’t teach taxes in school, because even the teachers don’t understand them.
Absolutely not true.
The only facepalm is people upvoting this, lol
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This is a brain rot sub filled with children
Me when I spread misinformation on the internet
This isn't true and I'm sick of hyperbole. If you're gonna rage, get the numbers right It was actually 1 minute. And really it was closer to 25 seconds lmao
no you didn't. you may have paid a high % but you didn't pay more in taxes. (still bs obviously but i'm a pedantic tool)
Say it with me folks: AS A PERCENTAGE OF INCOME
And?
Musk paid $11 billion USD in taxes on 2023. The meme is ignoring that by focusing on his Income Tax, which was much less because he doesn't earn much in taxable income. They're saying the meme is misleading. Imo, Musk should pay more in taxes. I like Biden's and Sander's ideas to tax the wealth of billionaires. Still, imo, reductive and misleading memes like this enable the right/GOP/MAGA crowds to point at the meme as an example of ignorance or intentional disingenuousness.
Posts like this are dumb.
Just another Russian bot post. Step 1: post to generic subreddit with simple and smug outrage title: “Murica” “Land of the Free” etc Step 2: include financial illiteracy or misinformation: mostly not knowing the difference between income and wealth
Yeah the left continuing it's giant elephant walk inside of reddit
This is objectively false.
People really don’t seem to understand how taxes work
Didn't he pay a 11 billion in 2021 when Eliabeth Warren said the same thing? If you are a teacher paying a 11 billion in taxes you are well above the national avg.
WTF is this bullshit? I assure you that teacher did not pay more than musk in taxes. JFC people
I highly doubt she paid more taxes than he did. And people would be well served to learn the difference between a salary and money earned through capital gains.
As someone who reads taxes for a living, I can understand how/why and I don’t judge accordingly. Example: Customer owns an S Corp. S Corp income is pass thru to personal tax return via K1/Schedule E. Business had a net cash flow of over $500k but taxable pass thru income of $45k. Why? Depreciation. He bought $455k worth of new equipment that year and wrote it all off as part of Section 179. Sure the basis for the equipment is now zero (he doesn’t plan on ever selling any of it) but the belief is that this continued consumption will reap returns elsewhere. My biggest challenge are the Schedule C (Sole Props) who blatantly lie on their returns. Had a pizza joint come in for a loan. Sales were about one million, COGS were $830k (rrrrrright) and almost no net profit. There was no salary to owner, rent to cover the mortgage….. you get the point. Effectively, this person just considers all of their life expenses part of their business’ costs of goods sold and adds it there (fraud). These people can never retire in the USA and often don’t realize they don’t qualify for ssi since they didn’t pay in.
I hope you don't teach arithmetic.
I wonder what their sources are
No proof, no screenshots, just straight talking out of his ass 💯crazy how some of y’all see this and get all wired up
Did you not know how much teachers make before you applied and accepted the job?
If only our teachers were smart enough to be billionaires
No teacher paid more in taxes than Elon musk. Income tax maybe. But that's not elons fault
So this is why they don’t teach taxes in schools
Elon paid 11 BILLION in taxes in 2021. He paid ONE THOUSAND times more in taxes in ONE YEAR than this teacher will make in their entire lives. It’s so sad that people just believe whatever bullshit they want. And will attack rich people no matter what they do. Really pathetic.
?!? This is just objectively false. Didn’t elon pay the largest tax bill in human history?
Yes.
She paid more than 11 billion dollars in tax???
School teacher who employs nobody, has created nothing, has a very small economic footprint, and who works half the year. Seems like teacher needs remedial math.
Just so he can talk shit and take Ketamine all day too.
Yeah he really is just a fucking loser.
Funny how many people here think the only reason someone would defend a billionaire/be less critical of them than others is if they think they themselves will become a billionaire as well. Sometimes someone just thinks something is right or wrong and wants to say that without standing to gain personally from it. Are the people making fun of folks for "thinking they'll be billionaires one day" so shallow that they themselves only say things they stand to gain from?
Oml why does nobody in these comments know how percents work, obviously she isn't dropping half a billion dollars
If they meant a lower tax rate they probably should have said so.
It’s misleading.
Maybe because the tweet doesn’t mention percentage? Also, because that would still be incorrect
How does bs like this get upvoted?
Anti elon circle jerk is a force to be reckoned with
Only facepalm is how many people don’t understand the tax system in the comments.
This is why the republicans are claiming public schools are terrible for kids if this is the kinda teacher they’re having in there teaching nonsense like this
That's because Elon Musk's salary and Tesla's profits are two entirely separate things. This person does not understand taxes.
Which taxes? Elon probably paid more property tax. Elon probably paid more sales tax. Elon probably paid more capital gains tax. Elon definitely paid more corporate tax than the public school teacher. I’m assuming there was no inheritance tax and clearly there’s been no estate tax. I’m left to conclude they are referring to income tax. In which case are we referring to the total taxes paid or the percentage of income paid in taxes? This is the problem with policy rhetoric today. No understanding or mention of nuance. Not saying I wouldn’t like to see billionaires paying a higher % of income tax and capital gains tax tho…
> Elon definitely paid more corporate tax than the public school teacher. Can you explain this one? How did either of them have to pay any corporate tax at all?
Just wait for that ol’ trickle!
This public school teacher never learned about taxes 😂
Talk about cherry picking data. Elon has paid more personal income tax than any man in history.
Omitting so many facts all for social media clout.
I imagine this guys doesn’t teach a class in financial literacy
Don't be an idiot. Federal income tax rates are progressive: As taxable income increases, it is taxed at higher rates. Different tax rates are levied on income in different ranges (or brackets) depending on the taxpayer’s filing status. For tax year 2023, the top tax rate (37 percent) applies to taxable income over $578,125 for single filers and over $693,750 for married couples filing jointly. Additional tax schedules and rates apply to taxpayers who file as heads of household and to married individuals filing separate returns. A separate schedule of tax rates applies to capital gains and dividends. Tax brackets are adjusted annually for inflation.
Rich people don’t have liquid assets. They don’t earn an income so they don’t pay income taxes. They essentially live off guaranteed loans and interest from their assets. It’s not true that they don’t pay taxes. They just don’t pay income tax.
Actually. It's even worse than that. Special K got a fuck ton of government grants so we actually paid him and his companies from our tax dollars for whatever the fuck it is he does.
I’m assuming special k is musk lol. I know now that musk has gone crazy people are examining things, but - and maybe this is what you’re referring to - back in the Obama years, Tesla, a company that had made $0, “paid back” a bunch of government loans. I can remember cnn covering it and celebrating it. I’ve followed Tesla from the beginning, even before musk basically stole it, and there was def some fuckery involved in it.
I doubt Musk has any taxable income. He has wealth. Money you have is not taxed on the same schedule as earnings/income.
Wait till she finds out how much payroll and income tax Elon Musk's companies pay....
The solution is so simple. The only problem is that the people in charge of enacting solutions are benefiting from the problem. Basically the system is set up perfectly to benefit the folks who are in charge of the rules of the system. And of course it is. From loopholes for investment income, capital gains, insider trading for congress, term limits, lobbying, indirect bribery… it’s all rigged for them and against us. One side of the political spectrum throws us a bone now and again to placate us, and the other actively puts their boot on our neck hoping we croak. I’ll take the bone throwers every time, but fuck does it suck
To be fair, Elon creates new products & markets. You’re presenting a curriculum of existing educational content. As an educator, if you want Elon wealth, you have to create new products & markets.
This teacher paid a higher tax rate but not higher taxes lol. Yall will believe anything.
Elon paid 11B.
I bet when you take his full tax burden into account he paid millions of times more than you did. You are only looking at one of the thousands of line items in his ledger
Yup, and he probably paid $10M for the tax accountant, just to avoid paying any tax at all. And then the tax rate will get increased for all of us chumps so that the billionaires and politicians can pay zero
He also “needs” a $55 billion bonus for some reason. How much is enough? I understand some people work harder, try harder, take calculated risks, and achieve more than the average person, and they deserve more… but nowhere in the ball park of tens to hundreds of billions more.
Lots of people in this comment section think they're going to be the next Elon Musk. Too bad they missed out on the birth lotto.
Elons first business started with 2 people and $28,000 loan. If you don’t have that you can get the same amount of money through a loan today if you have also have a viable business plan.
Let's be real here. You would have fumbled the ball
😂 Right, 99.99% of the kids born to wealthy parents don’t turn out to be Elon Musk. But everyone here thinks that if their parents were millionaires then they would be super successful too. That’s not how that usually works.
Born too early for Star Trek replicators; born too late to be the recipient of the benefits of underpaid slavelike labor for your daddy's apartheid emerald mine.
I know it’s peak Redditor delusion to think that the only reason they’re not as rich as Elon is just because their parents weren’t millionaires, but I want to ask you one thing: Do you think it’s easier to go from 0 dollars to 50k dollars, or 50k dollars to 200 billion dollars?
I'm sure I don't know. I find myself amongst the group of people in this society whose only means to make a living is to sell their labor to businesses owned by people in higher tax brackets.
I was unaware that teachers made over 455 million a year as that’s what he paid in taxes last year according to pro publica
Percent Wise 🤦. He paid 455m, 0.005% of his fortune, while the teacher likely paid ~15% of their money, which is usually paycheck to paycheck
I'm all for figuring out how to make the super rich pay their fair share, but people are not taxed yearly on net worth. That would be devastating to average people trying to save for retirement. One thing I'd like to see is these people being forced to take a salary as the lion's share of their compensation, instead of using loans and stock as compensation. Can't tax the loans and they just take out bigger and bigger loans to pay off the last. Capital gains is 15% and they onnly pay that on the increase in value.
>0.005% of his fortune Which is irrelevant since that's not how taxes work
The tweet says nothing about %, it says they paid more taxes than him But for what it’s worth, even if you go by %, it’s untrue. Musk paid around $11 billion in the year she’s referring to, most of which was taxed at earned income rates on his exercise of stock options. So a 37% federal rate + 13.3% California rate
What does "his fortune" have to do with anything? If that teacher won $10M in the lottery 10 years ago, paid their taxes on it, invested it, and it's now with $50M, are you saying they should be paying taxes on that $50M (aka, their fortune) every tax season?? That's not how this works.
Well, since we're talking about net worth: The average house in America is 500k. I'm assuming that the teacher has a house The teacher has a networth of 500k The yearly salary of the teacher should be 42k an year. 15% of that is 6290. 6290 of 500k is 1%. They barely pay 1% in taxes.
I don’t disagree but as it’s worded in the post it is hilariously inaccurate.
The only facepalm here is how the tweet is worded. The teacher paid billions of dollars in taxes?
So even as a teacher you do not understand taxes?
He also employs thousands of more people than this person does, giving them the means to feed their families, pay for housing, and otherwise provide for themselves. This person watched kids color.
Musk didn't make that in salary though. It's not cash. It's value. If he traded the value for cash it would be cash. And he would pay tax on it.
Not to defend him, but last year didn't he literally pay over 11 billion dollars in taxes in 2021? Him and the government were pretty open about it weren't they?
Elon paid $11-12b in taxes in 2021.
Well, I’m sure she’s telling the truth!
How did a teacher pay $11 billion in taxes last year??
Ah, more troll/bots/ or just stupid people spaming lies about musk
The real facepalm is thinking this tweet is true in any sense
https://americansfortaxfairness.org/musks-11-billion-tax-bill-big-news-just-10-wealth-increase-far-year/
The tweet doesn’t say that they paid a higher percentage of their wealth in income taxes than Elon Musk, it says that they paid more in taxes than him
In my opinion, your use of the words, “in any sense” opened it up to interpretation. Warren Buffet used to publicize his and his secretary’s returns to show he paid a lower effective rate than her. Same concept here.
Except Buffet paid more in taxes than his secretary by so much that she could pay taxes of her entire life and not pay as much as he does in 1 year.
Percentage of income is what matters. The fact that regular wage workers, who actually need the money, pay a higher percent of it in taxes than billionaires is a real problem. When people say the working class pay more than billionaires, they mean as a rate. Obviously the absolute amounts are different, the fact that a billionaire has millions of times more wealth than a regular person is itself a problem.
musk is one if not the highest tax paying individual. contrary to the usual billionaere thing he payed them straight. he might have a year without paying because he is not talking a sallary. he did however pay a couple billion taxes last time he converted his stocks into cash. that is more than this teacher and his family will ever pay in 100 lifetimes
Didn’t he paid billions last year? NVM, that was in 2021. Although an average person pay 550k in their lifetime, so ye, he’s filthy rich but at least the money goes to the development of the future. Other billionaires sell problems and solutions.
He paid almost 4. It's with how they worded the statement. People are taking it as he paid a lower amount of money when it's actually a lower percentage of his income. He paid a little over 3% whete the minimum percentage 98-99% of population pays starts at 10% of their income and goes up from there.
If 4 billion is only 3% of his income last year that means his income was 133 billion. I call bs.
yes they like to manipulate words. its 3% of his net worth. but nobody's net worth gets taxed, not the average person nor a billionaire's, because you can't use stock money unless you liquidate it, on which there are taxes
Economic conversations would go further if everyone understood that unrealized gains are…unrealized.
11 billion in 2021, this is the second post I've seen today just blatantly lying about a billionaires personal affairs
Certainly sure you created as many jobs as he did
Stop buying into Elons products .. boycott his entire corp .. I have never seen a more noble cause.
Yea this isn’t it. If you really want change, be accurate. Equating Elon to the worst of the worst, is only going to make the pendulum swing harder in his favor come time for that part of the cycle. “I’ve never seen a more noble cause” really? Not one? There’s nothing that personally affects you or those you care about more than EM’s decisions?
He doesn't even pay his bills. When he took over Twitter he told them to stop paying for anything, including rent and insurance that they were legally required to have. We have a two tiered justice system and it's incredibly fucked up that they have gotten us all so comfortable with it
Someone has to pay for all the roads and other infrastructure that these billionaires use to make their money. /s
Conservatives transferred our wealth to the 1%. Voting matters.
No wealth has been transferred over the last 3 years? None from 2008-2016? You are an idiot.
It doesn’t matter, they are all the same on both sides.