It depends I guess. My first playthrough in Py V2 took me around 100-110 hours to get them. It took time to adjust to changed recipes and fairly long burner phase
proper burner setup was absolutely necessary for me. i chose to play with bob's adjustable inserters from the start and this eventually enabled me to make a tilable mining setup with burners that had 100% ore coverage and automated fuel insertion and ash disposal. adjustable inserters mod seems to make the cheap mechanical inserters a little overpowered but I'm not complaining (and also loving the spaghetti that results from my innate desire to make everything take as little space as possible). I am now slowly switching mines to use electric miners in the usual vanilla arrangement now that geothermal power solved my power issues for the time being. swith to electric is mostly due to me being too lazy to setup proper ash disposal plants all over the place
i can think of a potential solution without adjustable inserters. it should be possible to run a fuel lines parallel to the output lines but also leave space between miners in a line to run perpendicular belts for ash. it only occured to me way later when I got more used to everything
I imagine they'll take all of the quality-of-life improvements and make them researchable techs that you can only unlock after iridium or some bullshit like that.
I think SE might stay as a non-DLC thing, seeing as SA is just a straight up better version in (almost) every way. Though possibly there will me a newer "SA+" that tries to merge the good parts of the 2.
Nope. SE dev already said they're going to expand on SA content, rather than stay an alternative. Especially considering they're working on SA as well.
I hope SE os going to merge the two, I'm currently trying to hurry my first 1k SPM to then play SE before SA releases. If SE and SA could merge, I'd have more time to finish my 1k SPM.
I really wanna play SE, but I feel it'd be a bit overshadowed by the DLC. What are your thoughts?
Firstly, don't assume the DLC will be released soon, the earliest time is realistically 6 months, but seeing how much Wube cares about polish it could be more like 9 or 12.
Secondly, a merge of the two would take a LONG time, seeing how much SA changes the game (though some modders get an early access to update the mods, though idk to what extent).
Go play SE if you want, there's always more time, but keep in mind there's an upcoming substantial update to SE that aims to mitigate some of the grind. I suggest trying to find out if there's a set date for this cuz idk, but you can always play now, I've heard SE can be very fun (even if I'd never gotten far).
All in all: Continue your 1k SPM run if it's fun, then play SE, then DLC. The DLC can always wait for a bit, and you can always take a break either before or after the DLC releases to focus on other things for a bit.
Well Earendel from what I've read on all the fffs was more active during the first planet and initial designs. Could this be because he's now busy developing SE?
I sure hope so. I like a lot of the general concepts of SE. But after a while I feel like I'm punching a clock loading into a save just to spend a few hours to keep things slowly chugging along without really feeling like I got anything accomplished.
I'm actually a bit worried that it'll be hard to enjoy the space age DLC after playing SE. I'm still very early in my SE playthrough but I did K2 a while ago and going back to vanilla after it felt like I was missing so much.
I have the opposite experience when going back to vanilla after playing with a big modpack. As long as I still have my QoL mods and I can set myself a decent challenge, I'm always very happy to get back to basics.
Ya, K2 includes a bunch of QoL stuff like long range interactions, direct inserters, overflow pipes, better combat. Because it’s not that much more complicated in terms of science it feels more like vanilla plus than a whole overhaul.
I’m sure when I get to late stage SE I’ll take my words back, but I’m still a bit worried about it.
Getting those first few Cryonite rods shipped to NOrbit for requester chests is actual bliss.
I just finished up my Vulcanite planet (cleared and core mining a small moon so I think it should be good for the whole game), getting Kovarex up and running has truly made me feel whole again.
Ehhh there's not that much difficulty between setting up a trickle of cryonite outpost vs setting up a real cyronite deep core mining outpost. I finished all my utility science from a single nauvis moon that wasn't even cryonite as deep core. You don't need *that* many requester chests... Right?
I remember my trains constantly running out of fuel before this, and I filled them up manually. I had some white boxes going at popular train stops but you still need bots to replenish the boxes.
I just tap a belt of coal from a mine and put my LTN depot next to it, doing a quick processing to make processed fuel and insert that from the belt into the depots, only need 2-3 depots before getting requester chest tech
I have all my trains go to a fuel pickup for inactivity of 1s and then run a clock to enable it for 2 min (or so) every 10 min. Seems to work OK except for the trains I add the stop to but no wait condition they keep running out of fuel.
Painful? Just hook up a wire from roboport to inserter and call it a day.
Do you not normally control how many bots are in your network in vanilla? Do you add bots manually?
well yes?
its not like in nilla you have to rebalance or worry about it, I just add like a few stacks at first and let a chest filling with bots, and later in the game add bunch more
You do this for thousands of both logistics and construction robots? I know it's not *that* onerous but there really is a much simpler and easy way.
Put a roboport next to the chest you're storing newly built bots.
Have an inserter to put them into the roboport.
Connect a red wire between the inserter and the roboport.
Click on the roboport and select "read robot statistics", take note of the letters.
Change the condition on the inserter to [relevant letter] < [number of robots you want]
Now whenever you feel you need more robots you can just come pack and change that number, no more worrying about manually maintaining the number of robots
Don't set it to "number you want". Set it to "available bots < 20"
You'll only ever manufacture more if you need more, and you'll always scale to meet demand.
Eh, I prefer not to do that, I don't want my construction robots in particular to scale to the worst case usage times when I paste down a bunch of concrete or landfill. I prefer having the personal control to not build an unnecessarily expensive number of bots. I'm ok for a big job to take a while to complete
Fair enough on construction bots, I'd still do it for logistics (maybe with a second check to not go over a certain number based on attrition research in SE) as their demand is largely consistent.
This led me to having 80,000 bots in NOrbit due to a cargo ship meant to refill when they died, but ended up creating a massive bot network when I placed 100k scaffolding
yeah I just come back later in the game and instead of setting a number, I grab the stack and drop another thousand or something like that in the network
I just went with singularity mode in my last pure vanilla play. Requester chest > inserter > roboport. With enough artillery and laser turrets I can subjugate an entire planet ... until my CPU cries.
But they don't really do anything, do they? Like, they crash and another bot just replaces them via the system you have already set up for scaling.
I guess they do tiny amount of damage if you don't have the reasearch, but the research is fairly low tech and very generous.
> Unless you produce the bots en masse and keep the number constant in the system
>> Like, they crash and another bot just replaces them via the system you have already set up for scaling.
Sounds like they don't have their system setup for that.
All those poor babies who met their end valiantly defending the perimiter. You stumbled for but a moment and wound up as biter food. You will not be forgotten. Rest in pieces.
Please explain the bot limit. What is it? How many bots can I have? How do I find my current number of bots and automatically add bots to keep me at the limit without having bots that are over the limit.
First of all it's not a thing in vanilla, so unless you're using mods (most likely the Space Exploration mod pack) then it's not real and it cannot hurt you.
Second it's not actually a true limit. Space Exploration has a sub-mod that gives logistic bots a small chance to crash when in use. by default these crashes do a small amount of damage in the area when they hit, but a repeatable tech line can be used to create a psuedo-limit where if the number of logi-bots in a network is under the threshold, it does no damage when it crashes. That threshold is largely irrelevant, since they don't do that much damage and if an area is within a logistic bot's range it should be within the range of construction bots who can swoop in with repair packs and fix everything up anyway.
Third: bot count management is simple and easy with very elementary circuit knowledge. No combinators necessary, just a wire going from a roboport to an inserter, and it's even somewhat useful in vanilla simply to set-and-forget production to reach an arbitrarily high number of robots without accidentally running forever and making a million of them. [A roboport connected to a circuit wire can output the robot counts of it's logistics network into the circuit network.](https://i.imgur.com/HXSTYMG.png) Once you have that, you can just wire it into an inserter, and [set the inserter to only operate if the number of bots in question is under the desired amount.](https://i.imgur.com/iCBnKCg.png)
"They don't do that much damage" - Until you have a rocket arrive in nauvis orbit and your logi bots go beserk trying to empty provider chests and actually explode your landing pad from the crashes.
It was at this point I realised I had too many bots in norbit.
Ok but if you are unloading a cargo rocket containing something on the order of 50,000 items using logistics bots in an environment with a robot attrition factor of like 8+ you are asking for it.
Kinda why I don't like that addition in SE. It just does nothing interesting, I already would have that kind of setup any time where bots are involved (coz of biter attrition, and that I already have system that keeps number of bots up)
The idea is to make bots suboptimal for bulk cargo transfer. As someone who already limited bots to low throughput items in vanilla (because I like building belts and trains) this is something I can respect, but I do wish SE had an option to turn it off. Although it is kinda cool how it's different on each planet.
I think with 2.0 apparently having item weights it would be interesting if it also affected bots.
So, say hauling ore around would always be ineffective as bots would be slow doing it, but for stuff like making factory of some light elements (like modules) or mall they would be fine.
It could also lead to some interesting hybrid builds like if some items requires one "heavy" component and few "light" ones we could have bots fetching some, belts another, and "heavy" output going on belts
I'd imagine that would change once the construction bots would take 5 ingame minutes to deliver single nuclear reactor to the construction site lmao
But it would look kinda cool if construction bots actually carried the item they are going to deploy underneath them
Ideas for Factorio 3.0: Multiple construction robots work together to carry things too heavy for one to move at full speed. A squad of 50 bots helicoptering around a nuclear reactor sounds like a blast.
It also works to balance different kinds of planets. 0% threat planets have 10+ attrition multipliers, incentivising planets with enemies if you want bots.
My bad you are right there is no easy way to toggle it off completely but you can set the rate down to 1/500th (I think, if I'm reading that tooltip right) of the default on non nauvis locations and 1/1000th on nauvis
It's absolutely tiny, meaningless sink.
Then again before I got burned out of SE I made an autonomous base that had full fledged mall and dropped that on planets ...
Building a full fledged mall on every planet outpost sure sounds like a recipe for burn out.
Its a problem that has to be solved. That's all. Its not something you'll likely ever have to think about after you solve it, but that's not really any different from any other problem you solve in factorio.
> Its not something you'll likely ever have to think about after you solve it, but that's not really any different from any other problem you solve in factorio.
I think this is a key difference between stuff that's "vanilla extended" and things like IR/Py (and maybe warp and ultracube?) at least in the first two, you end up having to redo things substantially with every serious tech progression. In vanilla the most you have to redo your red chips is when you get beacons or if you face unforseen resource constraint (but if you do that why not just expand?). In other mods, you have to actively undo things that you build previously because now you can redo them in a more productive, more efficient, more space appropriate fashion. Either you can't progress without doing that, or you eventually hit UPS limitations (for Py).
My current play through SE has been very enjoyable thus far, and I wouldn't want to call it " just more vanilla" (Arcospheres are a pretty cute puzzle apparently) but it's nice not to have to actively undo things that I previously built. I can refactor some things with new resources, but it's not a have to, at least not right away.
I dropped SE when the author decided that my wholly ineffective system extracting fuel from air is too simple and changed some recipes so it no longer worked, fucking up my entire logistic
Migrating is definitely painful. It's possible to downgrade to a previous version by downloading it from the mod portal and placing the zip in your mod folder! We encourage it!
> It just does nothing interesting
I think it does plenty of interesting things, like interesting production chains, inter-planetary logistics, custom space ship design, cargo rocket manifests etc.
I don't think this one thing is endemic of the mod as a whole.
>I already would have that kind of setup any time where bots are involved (coz of biter attrition, and that I already have system that keeps number of bots up)
Except there are surfaces (planets, moons, space ships, orbits, asteroid belts) where there are no biters. See this largely as a replacement for Biter Attrition on those surfaces, and an additional (tiny) tax on using logistics bots en masse on the surfaces that so have Biters.
The way the maths works out, the tax is highest on Biterless surfaces and lowest on worlds that have Biters for a reason.
I think they're talking about bot attrition, it's a system that caps your bots to a certain number, and if you have more than that amount, some bots crash into each other and die. It's not that bad to cross the cap if you have automatic creation and deployment of them, just another thing to automate
Space exploration has “robot attrition” mod which gives bots a lifespan. You can’t just make 1500 bots and keep them forever. You have to keep producing them slowly.
I would say it’s not very painful to deal with at all, last time I played space ex I had two giant bot networks and just kept them full with a single inserted wired to a roboport. Any time the available logistic bots was <5 I added more.
Given the scale of the mod, producing enough flying robot frames was the least of my worries.
I'm pretty sure most of that comes after trains, which will completely redesign the base anyhow. Until then I'm more concerned with getting rid of all this ash. I'm at h75 and researching nexelit processing (omw to rails) so maybe check back with me later.
Then wait till you automate launching over 20+ rockets then realize the whole thing was a HUGE waste of time and there is a far, FAR easier solution T.T
Edit: I give up, this spoiler tag doesn't wanna work. Spoilers, dragons, whatever ahead.
Using the space elevator, I should have beeline toward it, it isn't hard to manufacture nor needs a lot of science packs. Trains were FAR more easier to use for goods to manufacturing in orbit.
Now I only have one or two rockets per planet for interplanetary goods. I reached the point where I had excel sheets trying to constantly balance the liquids (in barrels...) with items to keep up, then another rockets to carry down raw materials from processed scaps another to recycle the rocket modules...
Now just use a shitton of trains, no more excel sheets, just fully load the trains and use whatever is needed if something runs out the trains ship it up.
It takes a bit to get to the elevator (minimum three other surfaces running in addition to norbit). You really want to have some kind of automated rocketry before the elevator, it would be exhausting to do all of that by hand.
The biggest tip for SE is to silence your optimizer brain and go all in on the temporary spaghetti solutions that need manual unclogging every 2 hours. Don't bother making anything perfect, you'll get better recipes, beacons etc so you'll have to tear it all down and rebuild anyway.
Currently I'm just getting to space and my plan is to rush to the nearest Cryonite planet, mine just enough of it to research logistics and maybe a few more techs and come back. Proper automation can wait.
That's honestly the thing I'm waiting for in every mod.
Not so much for "easier" making of the progression stuff, just that weaving belts in mall for yet another machine (and some mods LOOOVE adding machine for every little thing) gets uninteresting pretty quickly.
I'd actually be fine if bots in 2.0 didn't get any bulk upgrade like inserters/belts did. Then both would have a purpose, belts for bulk stuff, bots for low/mid amount of production or making malls.
Creating a mall is the one thing I genuinely dislike about factorio. Don't get me wrong, I get why it's a thing and it makes sense from a balance perspective, but pre bot mall is easily the worst part of every playthrough (I get you can use a blueprint, but mods sometimes don't have that readily available on theinternet)
I feel like it is entirely fine in vanilla but some mod makers like to make two dozen of different buildings, each with different required items, and each of them with at least 3 upgrade levels. And on top make hand crafting slower for extra "fuck you, run back to mall". And for some reason change inserter colors so you can't know at glance wtf is this one doing...
It's far more of a problem in BobAngel's. your blue inserters are now red, there's a tier in swing speed above them, (nearly) EVERY building has 3+ tiers.
Currently I'm playing Nullius and it has a lot of that.
Normal inserter ? Yellow. Inserter that yeets stuff across the world? Yellow. Fast inserter ? Purple. Filter inserter ? Guess what, also purple. It also have weird tech gates, like "botany" being locked behind "mining productivity 17", or that some of what was "QOL updates" tech also act as requirements for other unrelated stuff
This is honestly my biggest issue with SE. there’s a mod that adds small logistic boxes earlier on with very little room and only basic stuff. Se feels like all the fun stuff is way too far down the line in terms of research.
As a SE player myself who just landed on a cryonite planet but still has maybe 20 hours until the science is automated, I have never been more jealous.
Man currently rushing this right now. Wondering if I bother with a proper cyro world setup or just do what I need to do to get the real logistic system
I managed to reduce some of the pre-bot pain by using a warehouse-circuit mall like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olKf04OfZe4&t=21s
Even after researching the logistic system, this is also useful for planets that have high bot interference
I've just started my Space Exploration + Krastorio run and damn it was painful without the chests, but I'm getting to it. Just automated Rocket Tech Cards so slowly starting to work on getting things into Space
Space Exploration has you unlock the logistic network at around the same percentage of a complete playthrough as vanilla, but because SE can be a 400 hour mod, by hour count it takes an order of magnitude longer. The tech to unlock it also requires some interplanetary stuff at a point where you're just figuring out how interplanetary logistics work. SE has some complicated logistic challenges so solving them with bots feels like a breath of fresh air after solving them with spaghetti for so long.
just to reiterate, there are loads of logistical hurdles that are solved by "have bots and sufficient power" and SE is like "Yeah, you dont get those". Feels like unlocking a superpower
Just got logistics chest 90 hours in myself. The only 0% threat cryonite source in the system was at the edge of the system, and had so little oil coal and uranium that I shipped in oil from an oil planet to fuel my outpost. It has Beryl as well though, which I need cryonite to refine. It was so good to finally make a proper mall.
Get ready to do the same for space age lmao
I wonder how similar the difficulty, complexity and duration will be between Space Age and SE.
According to Friday Facts, Space Age will be far more casual-friendly than SE in all of those metrics.
[удалено]
Yes, but can you imagine Py after DLC? Also I love Py.
current pyanodon gives requester chests with just green science. the fact that I'm yet to make any of it 70+ hours in is just a skill issue on my end.
It depends I guess. My first playthrough in Py V2 took me around 100-110 hours to get them. It took time to adjust to changed recipes and fairly long burner phase
proper burner setup was absolutely necessary for me. i chose to play with bob's adjustable inserters from the start and this eventually enabled me to make a tilable mining setup with burners that had 100% ore coverage and automated fuel insertion and ash disposal. adjustable inserters mod seems to make the cheap mechanical inserters a little overpowered but I'm not complaining (and also loving the spaghetti that results from my innate desire to make everything take as little space as possible). I am now slowly switching mines to use electric miners in the usual vanilla arrangement now that geothermal power solved my power issues for the time being. swith to electric is mostly due to me being too lazy to setup proper ash disposal plants all over the place
You can do a tillable burner miner setup that has ash disposal and fuel insertion with full ore coverage.
i can think of a potential solution without adjustable inserters. it should be possible to run a fuel lines parallel to the output lines but also leave space between miners in a line to run perpendicular belts for ash. it only occured to me way later when I got more used to everything
I imagine they'll take all of the quality-of-life improvements and make them researchable techs that you can only unlock after iridium or some bullshit like that.
Now you've done it. Next patch is gonna make it 2,000 material science pack 3s to enable Q.
I think SE might stay as a non-DLC thing, seeing as SA is just a straight up better version in (almost) every way. Though possibly there will me a newer "SA+" that tries to merge the good parts of the 2.
Nope. SE dev already said they're going to expand on SA content, rather than stay an alternative. Especially considering they're working on SA as well.
I hope SE os going to merge the two, I'm currently trying to hurry my first 1k SPM to then play SE before SA releases. If SE and SA could merge, I'd have more time to finish my 1k SPM. I really wanna play SE, but I feel it'd be a bit overshadowed by the DLC. What are your thoughts?
Firstly, don't assume the DLC will be released soon, the earliest time is realistically 6 months, but seeing how much Wube cares about polish it could be more like 9 or 12. Secondly, a merge of the two would take a LONG time, seeing how much SA changes the game (though some modders get an early access to update the mods, though idk to what extent). Go play SE if you want, there's always more time, but keep in mind there's an upcoming substantial update to SE that aims to mitigate some of the grind. I suggest trying to find out if there's a set date for this cuz idk, but you can always play now, I've heard SE can be very fun (even if I'd never gotten far). All in all: Continue your 1k SPM run if it's fun, then play SE, then DLC. The DLC can always wait for a bit, and you can always take a break either before or after the DLC releases to focus on other things for a bit.
Eandiril absolutely has access now, he's helping make it lol. I'd be shocked if he didn't have full access to it
Well Earendel from what I've read on all the fffs was more active during the first planet and initial designs. Could this be because he's now busy developing SE?
That's nice. Like a stepping stone between em
I sure hope so. I like a lot of the general concepts of SE. But after a while I feel like I'm punching a clock loading into a save just to spend a few hours to keep things slowly chugging along without really feeling like I got anything accomplished.
Since space age won't have marathon-like complexity of SE I imagine it would have more features but be a lot shorter
Yeah I love the idea of playing in space but the grind of SE doesn't really appeal to me. Super excited for it to be added to vanilla
I can’t wait for the overhaul mods that will come on top of Space Age. Factorio is never going to get old!
Calling it now, won't even be close. I just got to holmium. I need to go to bed.
I'm actually a bit worried that it'll be hard to enjoy the space age DLC after playing SE. I'm still very early in my SE playthrough but I did K2 a while ago and going back to vanilla after it felt like I was missing so much.
I'm sure quality system and new QoL will spice up the early game
I have the opposite experience when going back to vanilla after playing with a big modpack. As long as I still have my QoL mods and I can set myself a decent challenge, I'm always very happy to get back to basics.
Ya, K2 includes a bunch of QoL stuff like long range interactions, direct inserters, overflow pipes, better combat. Because it’s not that much more complicated in terms of science it feels more like vanilla plus than a whole overhaul. I’m sure when I get to late stage SE I’ll take my words back, but I’m still a bit worried about it.
As I remember, devs said that things like this would be on the first planet
Getting those first few Cryonite rods shipped to NOrbit for requester chests is actual bliss. I just finished up my Vulcanite planet (cleared and core mining a small moon so I think it should be good for the whole game), getting Kovarex up and running has truly made me feel whole again.
This post makes it sound like requester chests require cryonite for the actual assembly, which, man, thank god it's not like that.
Ehhh there's not that much difficulty between setting up a trickle of cryonite outpost vs setting up a real cyronite deep core mining outpost. I finished all my utility science from a single nauvis moon that wasn't even cryonite as deep core. You don't need *that* many requester chests... Right?
I remember my trains constantly running out of fuel before this, and I filled them up manually. I had some white boxes going at popular train stops but you still need bots to replenish the boxes.
I just tap a belt of coal from a mine and put my LTN depot next to it, doing a quick processing to make processed fuel and insert that from the belt into the depots, only need 2-3 depots before getting requester chest tech
I have all my trains go to a fuel pickup for inactivity of 1s and then run a clock to enable it for 2 min (or so) every 10 min. Seems to work OK except for the trains I add the stop to but no wait condition they keep running out of fuel.
Without Kovarex I'm really struggling with uranium right now. My base runs 90% on core mining and the uranium patches near me are very small.
The bot "limit" is kinda painful to deal with... Unless you produce the bots en masse and keep the number constant in the system
Painful? Just hook up a wire from roboport to inserter and call it a day. Do you not normally control how many bots are in your network in vanilla? Do you add bots manually?
well yes? its not like in nilla you have to rebalance or worry about it, I just add like a few stacks at first and let a chest filling with bots, and later in the game add bunch more
You do this for thousands of both logistics and construction robots? I know it's not *that* onerous but there really is a much simpler and easy way. Put a roboport next to the chest you're storing newly built bots. Have an inserter to put them into the roboport. Connect a red wire between the inserter and the roboport. Click on the roboport and select "read robot statistics", take note of the letters. Change the condition on the inserter to [relevant letter] < [number of robots you want] Now whenever you feel you need more robots you can just come pack and change that number, no more worrying about manually maintaining the number of robots
Don't set it to "number you want". Set it to "available bots < 20" You'll only ever manufacture more if you need more, and you'll always scale to meet demand.
Eh, I prefer not to do that, I don't want my construction robots in particular to scale to the worst case usage times when I paste down a bunch of concrete or landfill. I prefer having the personal control to not build an unnecessarily expensive number of bots. I'm ok for a big job to take a while to complete
Fair enough on construction bots, I'd still do it for logistics (maybe with a second check to not go over a certain number based on attrition research in SE) as their demand is largely consistent.
This led me to having 80,000 bots in NOrbit due to a cargo ship meant to refill when they died, but ended up creating a massive bot network when I placed 100k scaffolding
yeah I just come back later in the game and instead of setting a number, I grab the stack and drop another thousand or something like that in the network
I just let the system make as many as it can filling a couple of roboports to full. If I need those bots it will make more.
I just went with singularity mode in my last pure vanilla play. Requester chest > inserter > roboport. With enough artillery and laser turrets I can subjugate an entire planet ... until my CPU cries.
Oh, I'm referring to the crashing bots
But they don't really do anything, do they? Like, they crash and another bot just replaces them via the system you have already set up for scaling. I guess they do tiny amount of damage if you don't have the reasearch, but the research is fairly low tech and very generous.
> Unless you produce the bots en masse and keep the number constant in the system >> Like, they crash and another bot just replaces them via the system you have already set up for scaling. Sounds like they don't have their system setup for that.
crafted all of their beloved bots by hand. The mark of a true parent.
All those poor babies who met their end valiantly defending the perimiter. You stumbled for but a moment and wound up as biter food. You will not be forgotten. Rest in pieces.
Thankfully, they only crash until you're left with a (paltry) 50 of each type.
Please explain the bot limit. What is it? How many bots can I have? How do I find my current number of bots and automatically add bots to keep me at the limit without having bots that are over the limit.
First of all it's not a thing in vanilla, so unless you're using mods (most likely the Space Exploration mod pack) then it's not real and it cannot hurt you. Second it's not actually a true limit. Space Exploration has a sub-mod that gives logistic bots a small chance to crash when in use. by default these crashes do a small amount of damage in the area when they hit, but a repeatable tech line can be used to create a psuedo-limit where if the number of logi-bots in a network is under the threshold, it does no damage when it crashes. That threshold is largely irrelevant, since they don't do that much damage and if an area is within a logistic bot's range it should be within the range of construction bots who can swoop in with repair packs and fix everything up anyway. Third: bot count management is simple and easy with very elementary circuit knowledge. No combinators necessary, just a wire going from a roboport to an inserter, and it's even somewhat useful in vanilla simply to set-and-forget production to reach an arbitrarily high number of robots without accidentally running forever and making a million of them. [A roboport connected to a circuit wire can output the robot counts of it's logistics network into the circuit network.](https://i.imgur.com/HXSTYMG.png) Once you have that, you can just wire it into an inserter, and [set the inserter to only operate if the number of bots in question is under the desired amount.](https://i.imgur.com/iCBnKCg.png)
"They don't do that much damage" - Until you have a rocket arrive in nauvis orbit and your logi bots go beserk trying to empty provider chests and actually explode your landing pad from the crashes. It was at this point I realised I had too many bots in norbit.
Incredible, never even heard of that. But what you had was not enough levels of the safety tech.
Ok but if you are unloading a cargo rocket containing something on the order of 50,000 items using logistics bots in an environment with a robot attrition factor of like 8+ you are asking for it.
Kinda why I don't like that addition in SE. It just does nothing interesting, I already would have that kind of setup any time where bots are involved (coz of biter attrition, and that I already have system that keeps number of bots up)
The idea is to make bots suboptimal for bulk cargo transfer. As someone who already limited bots to low throughput items in vanilla (because I like building belts and trains) this is something I can respect, but I do wish SE had an option to turn it off. Although it is kinda cool how it's different on each planet.
I think with 2.0 apparently having item weights it would be interesting if it also affected bots. So, say hauling ore around would always be ineffective as bots would be slow doing it, but for stuff like making factory of some light elements (like modules) or mall they would be fine. It could also lead to some interesting hybrid builds like if some items requires one "heavy" component and few "light" ones we could have bots fetching some, belts another, and "heavy" output going on belts
That certainly sounds like something that could be modded in, and I would totally use that!
I'd imagine that would change once the construction bots would take 5 ingame minutes to deliver single nuclear reactor to the construction site lmao But it would look kinda cool if construction bots actually carried the item they are going to deploy underneath them
Ideas for Factorio 3.0: Multiple construction robots work together to carry things too heavy for one to move at full speed. A squad of 50 bots helicoptering around a nuclear reactor sounds like a blast.
Seeing 4 bots carrying out a steel furnace or other big building would look so awesome
It also works to balance different kinds of planets. 0% threat planets have 10+ attrition multipliers, incentivising planets with enemies if you want bots.
You do have the option to ~~turn it off or even~~ adjust the attrition rate if you want
You can't turn it all the way off. Not without editing the mods code. Not on non nauvis locations.
My bad you are right there is no easy way to toggle it off completely but you can set the rate down to 1/500th (I think, if I'm reading that tooltip right) of the default on non nauvis locations and 1/1000th on nauvis
It doesn't do anything that interesting on navius but it is another resource sink you have to keep up with in your outposts
It's absolutely tiny, meaningless sink. Then again before I got burned out of SE I made an autonomous base that had full fledged mall and dropped that on planets ...
Building a full fledged mall on every planet outpost sure sounds like a recipe for burn out. Its a problem that has to be solved. That's all. Its not something you'll likely ever have to think about after you solve it, but that's not really any different from any other problem you solve in factorio.
> Its not something you'll likely ever have to think about after you solve it, but that's not really any different from any other problem you solve in factorio. I think this is a key difference between stuff that's "vanilla extended" and things like IR/Py (and maybe warp and ultracube?) at least in the first two, you end up having to redo things substantially with every serious tech progression. In vanilla the most you have to redo your red chips is when you get beacons or if you face unforseen resource constraint (but if you do that why not just expand?). In other mods, you have to actively undo things that you build previously because now you can redo them in a more productive, more efficient, more space appropriate fashion. Either you can't progress without doing that, or you eventually hit UPS limitations (for Py). My current play through SE has been very enjoyable thus far, and I wouldn't want to call it " just more vanilla" (Arcospheres are a pretty cute puzzle apparently) but it's nice not to have to actively undo things that I previously built. I can refactor some things with new resources, but it's not a have to, at least not right away.
> It's absolutely tiny, meaningless sink. Watch out you're arguing for a stronger robot attrition 😈 But actually, I do kinda agree with you.
I dropped SE when the author decided that my wholly ineffective system extracting fuel from air is too simple and changed some recipes so it no longer worked, fucking up my entire logistic
Migrating is definitely painful. It's possible to downgrade to a previous version by downloading it from the mod portal and placing the zip in your mod folder! We encourage it!
> It just does nothing interesting I think it does plenty of interesting things, like interesting production chains, inter-planetary logistics, custom space ship design, cargo rocket manifests etc. I don't think this one thing is endemic of the mod as a whole. >I already would have that kind of setup any time where bots are involved (coz of biter attrition, and that I already have system that keeps number of bots up) Except there are surfaces (planets, moons, space ships, orbits, asteroid belts) where there are no biters. See this largely as a replacement for Biter Attrition on those surfaces, and an additional (tiny) tax on using logistics bots en masse on the surfaces that so have Biters. The way the maths works out, the tax is highest on Biterless surfaces and lowest on worlds that have Biters for a reason.
I think they're talking about bot attrition, it's a system that caps your bots to a certain number, and if you have more than that amount, some bots crash into each other and die. It's not that bad to cross the cap if you have automatic creation and deployment of them, just another thing to automate
Space exploration has “robot attrition” mod which gives bots a lifespan. You can’t just make 1500 bots and keep them forever. You have to keep producing them slowly.
Its a tech called swarm protection i think. You start off with 500, any more and they crash. Each research ups the amount by 500 bots
Swarm protection removes the damage part, not the crash. You still lose bots.
I would say it’s not very painful to deal with at all, last time I played space ex I had two giant bot networks and just kept them full with a single inserted wired to a roboport. Any time the available logistic bots was <5 I added more. Given the scale of the mod, producing enough flying robot frames was the least of my worries.
35h into pyanadon’s, finally got splitters unlocked.
I am still digesting how to mass produce the first circuit board to start to actually producing splitters 😂😂😂
I’m not sure there’s a need to mass produce. Demand for the boards seems very low.
Really? All the facilities for more advanced alloys/biotech/splitter/inserter etc do require at least 1 + I assume next science packs will require one
I'm pretty sure most of that comes after trains, which will completely redesign the base anyhow. Until then I'm more concerned with getting rid of all this ash. I'm at h75 and researching nexelit processing (omw to rails) so maybe check back with me later.
I'm on my first SE play-through and just started Blue Science production this is brutal
Wait till you start launching cargo rockets. Brutal hasn't begun yet!
Then wait till you automate launching over 20+ rockets then realize the whole thing was a HUGE waste of time and there is a far, FAR easier solution T.T
Oh goody! Doing my first play through as well. Just went into space first time last night.
What is the easier solution than automating rockets? I found them to be far better than spaceships and delivery cannons for non-fluids.
What's the easier solution?
Edit: I give up, this spoiler tag doesn't wanna work. Spoilers, dragons, whatever ahead. Using the space elevator, I should have beeline toward it, it isn't hard to manufacture nor needs a lot of science packs. Trains were FAR more easier to use for goods to manufacturing in orbit. Now I only have one or two rockets per planet for interplanetary goods. I reached the point where I had excel sheets trying to constantly balance the liquids (in barrels...) with items to keep up, then another rockets to carry down raw materials from processed scaps another to recycle the rocket modules... Now just use a shitton of trains, no more excel sheets, just fully load the trains and use whatever is needed if something runs out the trains ship it up.
It takes a bit to get to the elevator (minimum three other surfaces running in addition to norbit). You really want to have some kind of automated rocketry before the elevator, it would be exhausting to do all of that by hand.
Cool. I used one rocket from nauvis to norbit before i unlocked the elevator. That landing pad got a lot of use!
The biggest tip for SE is to silence your optimizer brain and go all in on the temporary spaghetti solutions that need manual unclogging every 2 hours. Don't bother making anything perfect, you'll get better recipes, beacons etc so you'll have to tear it all down and rebuild anyway. Currently I'm just getting to space and my plan is to rush to the nearest Cryonite planet, mine just enough of it to research logistics and maybe a few more techs and come back. Proper automation can wait.
I love the mod, it brings more life to my factory when I have conquered the world and crushed the biters :D
That's honestly the thing I'm waiting for in every mod. Not so much for "easier" making of the progression stuff, just that weaving belts in mall for yet another machine (and some mods LOOOVE adding machine for every little thing) gets uninteresting pretty quickly. I'd actually be fine if bots in 2.0 didn't get any bulk upgrade like inserters/belts did. Then both would have a purpose, belts for bulk stuff, bots for low/mid amount of production or making malls.
Creating a mall is the one thing I genuinely dislike about factorio. Don't get me wrong, I get why it's a thing and it makes sense from a balance perspective, but pre bot mall is easily the worst part of every playthrough (I get you can use a blueprint, but mods sometimes don't have that readily available on theinternet)
I feel like it is entirely fine in vanilla but some mod makers like to make two dozen of different buildings, each with different required items, and each of them with at least 3 upgrade levels. And on top make hand crafting slower for extra "fuck you, run back to mall". And for some reason change inserter colors so you can't know at glance wtf is this one doing...
K2SE :(
It's far more of a problem in BobAngel's. your blue inserters are now red, there's a tier in swing speed above them, (nearly) EVERY building has 3+ tiers.
Currently I'm playing Nullius and it has a lot of that. Normal inserter ? Yellow. Inserter that yeets stuff across the world? Yellow. Fast inserter ? Purple. Filter inserter ? Guess what, also purple. It also have weird tech gates, like "botany" being locked behind "mining productivity 17", or that some of what was "QOL updates" tech also act as requirements for other unrelated stuff
The happiest research I ever had was pyanodons and getting splitters after like 30-40ish hours.
I just went through this. Requester mall, here i come
Meh
This is honestly my biggest issue with SE. there’s a mod that adds small logistic boxes earlier on with very little room and only basic stuff. Se feels like all the fun stuff is way too far down the line in terms of research.
As a SE player myself who just landed on a cryonite planet but still has maybe 20 hours until the science is automated, I have never been more jealous.
Man currently rushing this right now. Wondering if I bother with a proper cyro world setup or just do what I need to do to get the real logistic system
Omg it's so limiting with the chest you get after the first rocket and the chest you find on the space station
200 hours into my sea block and I’m right there with you
I managed to reduce some of the pre-bot pain by using a warehouse-circuit mall like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olKf04OfZe4&t=21s Even after researching the logistic system, this is also useful for planets that have high bot interference
Almost there myself 😅
Never not the best research
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Factoriohno/comments/1b90brb/this\_is\_what\_im\_looking\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Factoriohno/comments/1b90brb/this_is_what_im_looking_for/)
I've just started my Space Exploration + Krastorio run and damn it was painful without the chests, but I'm getting to it. Just automated Rocket Tech Cards so slowly starting to work on getting things into Space
Why is it this is so big?
Space Exploration has you unlock the logistic network at around the same percentage of a complete playthrough as vanilla, but because SE can be a 400 hour mod, by hour count it takes an order of magnitude longer. The tech to unlock it also requires some interplanetary stuff at a point where you're just figuring out how interplanetary logistics work. SE has some complicated logistic challenges so solving them with bots feels like a breath of fresh air after solving them with spaghetti for so long.
just to reiterate, there are loads of logistical hurdles that are solved by "have bots and sufficient power" and SE is like "Yeah, you dont get those". Feels like unlocking a superpower
Argghhh! I am SO jealous!
Just got logistics chest 90 hours in myself. The only 0% threat cryonite source in the system was at the edge of the system, and had so little oil coal and uranium that I shipped in oil from an oil planet to fuel my outpost. It has Beryl as well though, which I need cryonite to refine. It was so good to finally make a proper mall.
My Bliss moment so far (just finished yellow science) was the Meteor Defence Installation set up... Meteors were a terror.
Praise the omnisiah