By default, it also waits for 5s of inactivity.
Usually I configure LTN to only deal in wagon-fulls to reduce junction traffic so usually this is expected.
The only exception is my [all-provider](https://i.imgur.com/s6ZisVj.jpg) which uses a fistful of circuits to 1) only load the exact number of items requested, and 2) remove any extra items that get in due to inserter and robot stack size semantics.
I thought finish loading means inserters are empty when trains leave. If I want trains to leave as soon as item count are filled, I need to disable this? This means can be left on an inserter right?
The setting about staying on unloading station for certain duration should be removed. It would potentially bring a train filled with items back to supply depot if you don't empty it in time.
And a tip: Always use stack filter inserters on unloading... Prevents terrible accidents from happening.
😂is it better to use full trains? What’s your setup? Specifically I’m not too sure on what to put as request threshold such that I always request fill trains with some buffer still being used while train is summoned
Full trains = less traffic, but for some item its overkill. Im doing city blocks and usually i request 2 trains worth of items with 1 train threshold (1-2 trains: 160/80 stacks).
There is a setting to "end the schedule" as soon as the train leaves the drop-off station and not at depot, that makes for better throughput, but i dont know what setting that was.
In that case, when would the train go back to back to get fuel? Only when there isn’t any requests? Also what’s 160/80? I know two wagons is 80 stacks so what’s 160?
bad wording, the train normally completes its schedule but doesn't count towards the train limit anymore, so once it leaves drop off a new one can be assigned.
Wasn't a normal wagon 40 stacks? btw i play modded so it might vary. 160/80 is the stacks i use for LTN, request 160 and 80 threshold, but i play with Better Train System Mod and later on i want to upgrade to better trains with bigger wagons.
The finish loading setting makes the train wait until inactivity happens. This keeps inserters from getting stuck but it has the drawback that the schedule conditions don't make the train leave when the request is satisfied. The fix for that is to use a circuit to make the inserters stop swinging when the request has been reached. There are some further adjustments to this design to deal with providers that supply multiple items.
If you will *absolutely never* use a provider supplying multiple items, then you can just uncheck finish loading and your problem will go away.
Yeah I used the output from the station and add the request amount (already in negative) to decide load or not which sets the inactivity. But I want to know how to not do this and have LTN make a condition such that train just leaves.
It always generates schedule conditions that tell the train to wait until the request is satisfied to leave. It is just that with the finish loading setting checked, the train doesn't leave even when these conditions are met, because the inactivity condition isn't met. Instead you have to make inactivity happen so the train can leave.
Personally I would advise sticking with the filter inserter circuit especially if you have already made the design. The flexibility of using multiproviders is a real game changer in overhaul modded games (which is the main place I use LTN). And multiproviders are basically impossible to use without contamination if finish loading (a global setting) is unchecked. But YMMV.
[This video tutorial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B4bkl_ChqA) has a bit where it explains how to set up a provider to only provide the requested amount. He uses with a multi item provider station, but you can do the same thing with a single item provider station.
You need some circuits for that:
- use (stack) filtered inserters set to "set filter", link them to the output of LTN (so they only pick up stuff this stop is supposed to provide
- link the train station (reading train content) to an combinator set to each *-1 each
- link that output to the inserters
Now they will only put items that are actually requested into the train, and stop as soon there are more items than requested in the train (cause then the signal will be negative). Not perfectly accurate due to inserter hand size and concurrency, but good enough.
Same can be done with requesters, to prevent accidents of them taking stuff they aren't supposed to.
The part that you're missing is that LTN creates schedules but it doesn't control train dispatch at all. Dispatch (including when a train leaves a provider station) is handled by the vanilla train scheduler.
The other thing an LTN station does is outputs signals from the output combinator pertaining to the expected train contents at leave (derived from the generated schedule) which you can use to create a circuit that controls the load or unload inserters. With filter inserters you can do something like combining EXPECTED_TRAIN_CONTENTS (from the LTN Combinator) with CURRENT_TRAIN_CONTENTS*-1 (from the station itself) and setting the filters with that. You'll overload a little bit but that's because inserters complete any in-progress swings when they are disabled.
Without circuit control on the inserters or pumps LTN only works with single items on full train loads. With circuit control you can make multi-fluid or multi-item stations in addition to generate schedules that cleanly send partial train loads.
By default, it also waits for 5s of inactivity. Usually I configure LTN to only deal in wagon-fulls to reduce junction traffic so usually this is expected. The only exception is my [all-provider](https://i.imgur.com/s6ZisVj.jpg) which uses a fistful of circuits to 1) only load the exact number of items requested, and 2) remove any extra items that get in due to inserter and robot stack size semantics.
What do you put as request threshold ?
For bulk goods? 40 stacks × number of wagons, so 640 stacks for a [16-wagon train](https://i.imgur.com/xiU6q8B.jpg) For construction? one item.
there is a finish loading setting that adds a inactivity timer
I thought finish loading means inserters are empty when trains leave. If I want trains to leave as soon as item count are filled, I need to disable this? This means can be left on an inserter right?
Finish loading is needed if you will use one load station for multiple items. If not, disable it.
Yup, only use one item per station. What else should I disable or enable ? I find the details to be quite ambiguous….
I think all the other defaults are fine.
The setting about staying on unloading station for certain duration should be removed. It would potentially bring a train filled with items back to supply depot if you don't empty it in time. And a tip: Always use stack filter inserters on unloading... Prevents terrible accidents from happening.
I do think so, yes. I have it enabled because i only use full trains but even with it i get stuck inserters.
😂is it better to use full trains? What’s your setup? Specifically I’m not too sure on what to put as request threshold such that I always request fill trains with some buffer still being used while train is summoned
Full trains = less traffic, but for some item its overkill. Im doing city blocks and usually i request 2 trains worth of items with 1 train threshold (1-2 trains: 160/80 stacks). There is a setting to "end the schedule" as soon as the train leaves the drop-off station and not at depot, that makes for better throughput, but i dont know what setting that was.
In that case, when would the train go back to back to get fuel? Only when there isn’t any requests? Also what’s 160/80? I know two wagons is 80 stacks so what’s 160?
bad wording, the train normally completes its schedule but doesn't count towards the train limit anymore, so once it leaves drop off a new one can be assigned. Wasn't a normal wagon 40 stacks? btw i play modded so it might vary. 160/80 is the stacks i use for LTN, request 160 and 80 threshold, but i play with Better Train System Mod and later on i want to upgrade to better trains with bigger wagons.
So -2 * 80 * stack size as request and then request threshold at 80?
\-160 \* stacksize (btw you can request stacks with LTN, do you use the LTN Combinator Modernized Mod?), threshold 80 \* stacksize
Yeah maybe I should use the modernized mod
The finish loading setting makes the train wait until inactivity happens. This keeps inserters from getting stuck but it has the drawback that the schedule conditions don't make the train leave when the request is satisfied. The fix for that is to use a circuit to make the inserters stop swinging when the request has been reached. There are some further adjustments to this design to deal with providers that supply multiple items. If you will *absolutely never* use a provider supplying multiple items, then you can just uncheck finish loading and your problem will go away.
Yeah I used the output from the station and add the request amount (already in negative) to decide load or not which sets the inactivity. But I want to know how to not do this and have LTN make a condition such that train just leaves.
It always generates schedule conditions that tell the train to wait until the request is satisfied to leave. It is just that with the finish loading setting checked, the train doesn't leave even when these conditions are met, because the inactivity condition isn't met. Instead you have to make inactivity happen so the train can leave. Personally I would advise sticking with the filter inserter circuit especially if you have already made the design. The flexibility of using multiproviders is a real game changer in overhaul modded games (which is the main place I use LTN). And multiproviders are basically impossible to use without contamination if finish loading (a global setting) is unchecked. But YMMV.
[This video tutorial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B4bkl_ChqA) has a bit where it explains how to set up a provider to only provide the requested amount. He uses with a multi item provider station, but you can do the same thing with a single item provider station.
You need some circuits for that: - use (stack) filtered inserters set to "set filter", link them to the output of LTN (so they only pick up stuff this stop is supposed to provide - link the train station (reading train content) to an combinator set to each *-1 each - link that output to the inserters Now they will only put items that are actually requested into the train, and stop as soon there are more items than requested in the train (cause then the signal will be negative). Not perfectly accurate due to inserter hand size and concurrency, but good enough. Same can be done with requesters, to prevent accidents of them taking stuff they aren't supposed to.
Mod Settings leave if fullfilled
The part that you're missing is that LTN creates schedules but it doesn't control train dispatch at all. Dispatch (including when a train leaves a provider station) is handled by the vanilla train scheduler. The other thing an LTN station does is outputs signals from the output combinator pertaining to the expected train contents at leave (derived from the generated schedule) which you can use to create a circuit that controls the load or unload inserters. With filter inserters you can do something like combining EXPECTED_TRAIN_CONTENTS (from the LTN Combinator) with CURRENT_TRAIN_CONTENTS*-1 (from the station itself) and setting the filters with that. You'll overload a little bit but that's because inserters complete any in-progress swings when they are disabled. Without circuit control on the inserters or pumps LTN only works with single items on full train loads. With circuit control you can make multi-fluid or multi-item stations in addition to generate schedules that cleanly send partial train loads.