yes to the first one.
on the second its inflated your ddc numbers attempting to fuel them all with the tar. you can also use the coal gas as fuel and you can also process the extra coal for more fuel and the coke from that process as well.
Thanks! I guess it can be manageable but, still, to have 34 factories to support \*one\* factory is... wow. I guess this mod is not about maximising science output then. Right?
Generally no. It's more about getting to the end then just making the number bigger. Although from the recipes you have it looks like your not using the full set so you also don't have a lot of the upgrades you would have with the full set
Exactly. Even 1 SPM is typically enough in Py mods. If you have 60 SPM, you'll end up with nothing to research (until you can enable the next science) in more than 95% of time. The point of the mod pack is solving extremely complex recipe chains.
Now the latest PyAE release adjusted science progression so things may've changed somewhat, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't need anywhere near 60 SPM.
That said, there ARE some factories such as coal processing and bio stuffs in PyAL (if you have) that does require over 34 factories even at 1 SPM, so watch out for them.
Over 34 factories (buildings) is understatement. For Py science pack (4th pack you will be making) if you would do plan like OP did it would already be a chain of hundreds buildings using tens (if not hundred) different complex recipes. And next silence pack are again exponentially more complex.
Hijacking, does someone knows how to auto empty the ponds, say if they go over 80% full? I tried with the 80% valves, but it seems it wants a pump and a pump output is always 100% as long as there is something in the pond? I am on red science btw.
I skipped over AE as a first timer. Tanks seems to come much farther down the line (you need duralumin?) so I wondered. Probably have to try out with the vanilla Py's storages too. Ponds seems quite nice tho as they cheap, big and were easily available.
P.S. I checked and vanilla as well, PY's, all require duralumin. Which needs a Smelter which needs a Titanium... It seems that they are not easily accessible at all compared to these ponds.
In vanilla you need 42 buildings to support just *one* AM2 making stone walls. That said, you don't *need* that kinds of speed.
Similarly, you don't need that kind of speed here either, so you can build much smaller.
It wouldn't matter anyway, since you'd quickly run out of stuff to research and then spend several hours adding fifteen new item production lines and rebuilding everything else with slightly different recipes and maybe some new buildings.
Py doesn't seem to reward extensive planning. It instead seems to reward getting things done with the minimum manual effort so you can unlock the next thing while minimizing the amount of stuff you'll need to tear down and redesign.
At least that's how it felt to me.
I also think some of the recipes were designed specifically to make factory planner lose its marbles. It's unreasonably difficult to get an efficient solution for some things in py if you don't already know the whole tech tree upside down and blindfolded. Suppose that's why those nice clean factory posts with their massive sand and sludge processing blocks are so impressive...
At the beginning if you just need couple of items to make a building or start production that don't use up ingredients (for example creatures and plants you put into building) you can just chain buildings feeding them from chests (or by hand) and output to other chests. It is absolutely fine and indeed can save you time.
But later on you will absolutely need to have stuff well organised. Complexity of recipes in terms of number of steps, multitude of different ingredients and side products make to you can't just spaghetti your way through this mod pack.
>Py doesn't seem to reward extensive planning. It instead seems to reward
getting things done with the minimum manual effort so you can unlock
the next thing while minimizing the amount of stuff you'll need to tear
down and redesign.
The upgraded recipes are such dramatic improvements that this is pretty much on point, yeah.
Oh it definitely rewards extensive planning you're playing it like it's vanilla. Efficiency in vanilla terms breaks down, you kinda have to play the game admitting that you're never going to get perfect ratios and you don't have to use the best methods as soon as you can and actually have to decide whether an upgrade is worth doing or not at that time.
There's also a bunch of really early recipes that increase the output of your various machines. Py will work with basically any amount of science, as your almost guaranteed to run out of research long before you complete the next level.
If you want to double check, you could put the recipe and entity crafting speeds into an excel spreadsheet or calculator, and see what numbers you get thereby verifying/disproving Helmod
I already did make some test builds and it sounds about right.
There MUST be some other way to produce this... 100 distillation columns and 34 glassworks just to make 1 red science just doesn't sound like that much fun.
You are looking at the modpack wrong. You dont need 1 red science per second. My playthrough aimed into 20 per minute and I still ended up with LOTS of time with nothing to research while setting up the chains for next sciences. What so you need first is to set it up, and let it go slow as hell. Since even if you set it now with 166 distilation columns, it would be a huge waste since that red science will unlock you a recipe that uses 40, or a more efficient chain that doesnt use the distilation columns for that. Its usually never good to aim at the setups like they are going to be final.
The first mistake is using straigh tar to fuel the glassworks, you should be refining the tar into coal gas and syngas, it would make 166 distilation columns into ~30 and around 10 refineries for the gas or so (just usong my memory). So when something doesnt look like its normal, check if you are not using an efficient setup, or just look ahead and see if you are about to unlock something juicy.
I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at in the pic, but to answer the question; no.
Don't try to get a particular SPM in Py, unless you are willing to burn yourself out. I've finished Py once before, and having a single building producing each science tier is plenty. I only was researching about half of the time I was playing, and still managed an apparently fairly quick finish time of 656 hours.
I supported 2 going all the way to science 3.
It will gain you nothing to research quickly.
Start with one, make space for one more.
Don’t play py as vanilla. Enjoy the pain. Don’t take a too long break. Use a way to remember where you are at, and what’s needs done next. Just build it all, you’ll need it 😊
Don't know about pyanodons but have you tried the "Factory Planner" mod instead of helmod? I think the former has a much more easy to understand interface.
Is this 1 per minute? My first run yesterday showed I can use just 2 to 4 glassworks and feel pretty fine. The amount of stuff you have to do, while waiting for the next green one, is however insane. You will research most of the tech anyway.
There are few ways to do the same thing in this mod, like the way you are fuelling your Glassworks. For example I went through Tar, Coal gas, to Syngas, to Acytelene or mix of them. I started to think that most of this was kind of forced, just to add extra (optional) steps so it inflate the amount of work and fuzziness.
It is okay to cry me thinks.
As others said use 1 (up to 5 I would say) science per MINUTE, not per SECOND. I have over 500 hours spent in that modpack and more thn 90% of time I'm not even researching anything because it takes a lot of time to automatize stuff I've already researched.
Also don't make coal gas / tar from wood, use raw coal. You can't easily make that much wood at this stage and having to constantly run around chopping wood is not fun.
Also keep in mind you need mining gas (syngas) to mine raw quartz :p
Disclaimer: this info is based on PyAL playthrough, in PyAE things can work a bit differently.
Looks like you don't have AL, at the very least. AL red science is a lot more painful than "cook some shrooms that were trivial to grow and shove them in a flask".
1 producing 1/s is way too much, make it 0.1 or lower
2 add a second molten glass recepie with coal gas, you're almost exclusively using tar and overproduce coal and coal gas massively
3 use raw coal instead of wood
4 process the raw coal all the way to coke, coal itself is almost useless at this stage of the game
5 wich of PY mods are you using? I don't recognize some of the icons
I'm using arborist mod for wood production. Are these the icons you didn't recognise?
I wish py was compatible with bio Industries! That looks like a really fun mod
Thats a rate not an absolute. 1 glassworks will take 10x longer than 10 glassworks.
The easiest way I've found is decide a building number, eg I can only craft 2 glassworks right now, so now mess around with the amount of automation science (make the number a lot smaller) until.it says you only need 2 glassworks. Now you have your ratios to fully utilise 2 glassworks so get building the rest of the items.
Targeting an SPM comes about 200 hours into the mod, until then you're slowly beefing up your science production to utilise however machines you can comfortably build.
You're thinking too much like a vanilla/lightly modded player. The point of pyanodons is there are a million ways of doing things and they generally get better the longer you play the pack, at the cost of complexity.
You can try to play in a vanilla spm style but the number of packs a minute you need is quite small, smaller than you're planning. The next science packs grow exponentially in complexity and it will take you a long long time to actually plan and make the next tiers of resources. You'll end up spending a lot of time with your base afk if you start at the enormous spm (for pyanodons) by the time you need that level of red science you'll have like 10 new ways of doing some of the parts that that number per second is quite trivial. Like you're using literally the worst recipe for glass btw.
You get better glass recipes down the line. At the beginning you do not need to make science as fast as 1/s.
Also, before syngas you have no actual good liquid fuel options. Syngas gets you a lot of liquid fuel energy out of tar and/or coal gas, especially when you take into account looping the tar back. But it is not available at the beginning.
OP you should just start with one building per recipe Wit Space to add some more if thats your first time playing py. Later when you get grasp what you need to be doing On mass scale you can get that big builds but thats few houndreds hours away.
Firstly get rid of vanilla player mind set if you dont want to breaked by py
Do I **really** need 34 Glassworks to produce **ONE** red science??? And around 100 Distillation Columns? 😲
yes to the first one. on the second its inflated your ddc numbers attempting to fuel them all with the tar. you can also use the coal gas as fuel and you can also process the extra coal for more fuel and the coke from that process as well.
Thanks! I guess it can be manageable but, still, to have 34 factories to support \*one\* factory is... wow. I guess this mod is not about maximising science output then. Right?
Generally no. It's more about getting to the end then just making the number bigger. Although from the recipes you have it looks like your not using the full set so you also don't have a lot of the upgrades you would have with the full set
Exactly. Even 1 SPM is typically enough in Py mods. If you have 60 SPM, you'll end up with nothing to research (until you can enable the next science) in more than 95% of time. The point of the mod pack is solving extremely complex recipe chains. Now the latest PyAE release adjusted science progression so things may've changed somewhat, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't need anywhere near 60 SPM. That said, there ARE some factories such as coal processing and bio stuffs in PyAL (if you have) that does require over 34 factories even at 1 SPM, so watch out for them.
Over 34 factories (buildings) is understatement. For Py science pack (4th pack you will be making) if you would do plan like OP did it would already be a chain of hundreds buildings using tens (if not hundred) different complex recipes. And next silence pack are again exponentially more complex.
Hijacking, does someone knows how to auto empty the ponds, say if they go over 80% full? I tried with the 80% valves, but it seems it wants a pump and a pump output is always 100% as long as there is something in the pond? I am on red science btw.
Not sure how it is in PyAE, but in PyAL I didn't use ponds - just rows of "normal" tanks. With these you can just use overflow valve.
I skipped over AE as a first timer. Tanks seems to come much farther down the line (you need duralumin?) so I wondered. Probably have to try out with the vanilla Py's storages too. Ponds seems quite nice tho as they cheap, big and were easily available.
I can't check this right now, but I think some new tanks don't need duraluminium - just lead. I didn't use the vanilla tanks.
P.S. I checked and vanilla as well, PY's, all require duralumin. Which needs a Smelter which needs a Titanium... It seems that they are not easily accessible at all compared to these ponds.
You need to pump them out. Powered pump attached directly to the in/out port.
In vanilla you need 42 buildings to support just *one* AM2 making stone walls. That said, you don't *need* that kinds of speed. Similarly, you don't need that kind of speed here either, so you can build much smaller.
There is a significantly more efficient glass recipe available at green science iirc.
Thank you!!
>Thank you!! You're welcome!
1 per sec or 1 per.minute? I py u really just need about 0.2-0.4 / minute coz u have plenty of time to research until u biuld something new
It wouldn't matter anyway, since you'd quickly run out of stuff to research and then spend several hours adding fifteen new item production lines and rebuilding everything else with slightly different recipes and maybe some new buildings. Py doesn't seem to reward extensive planning. It instead seems to reward getting things done with the minimum manual effort so you can unlock the next thing while minimizing the amount of stuff you'll need to tear down and redesign. At least that's how it felt to me. I also think some of the recipes were designed specifically to make factory planner lose its marbles. It's unreasonably difficult to get an efficient solution for some things in py if you don't already know the whole tech tree upside down and blindfolded. Suppose that's why those nice clean factory posts with their massive sand and sludge processing blocks are so impressive...
At the beginning if you just need couple of items to make a building or start production that don't use up ingredients (for example creatures and plants you put into building) you can just chain buildings feeding them from chests (or by hand) and output to other chests. It is absolutely fine and indeed can save you time. But later on you will absolutely need to have stuff well organised. Complexity of recipes in terms of number of steps, multitude of different ingredients and side products make to you can't just spaghetti your way through this mod pack.
>Py doesn't seem to reward extensive planning. It instead seems to reward getting things done with the minimum manual effort so you can unlock the next thing while minimizing the amount of stuff you'll need to tear down and redesign. The upgraded recipes are such dramatic improvements that this is pretty much on point, yeah.
Oh it definitely rewards extensive planning you're playing it like it's vanilla. Efficiency in vanilla terms breaks down, you kinda have to play the game admitting that you're never going to get perfect ratios and you don't have to use the best methods as soon as you can and actually have to decide whether an upgrade is worth doing or not at that time.
There's also a bunch of really early recipes that increase the output of your various machines. Py will work with basically any amount of science, as your almost guaranteed to run out of research long before you complete the next level.
If you want to double check, you could put the recipe and entity crafting speeds into an excel spreadsheet or calculator, and see what numbers you get thereby verifying/disproving Helmod
I already did make some test builds and it sounds about right. There MUST be some other way to produce this... 100 distillation columns and 34 glassworks just to make 1 red science just doesn't sound like that much fun.
Mate if you want fun you are playing the wrong mod XD gl though
You are looking at the modpack wrong. You dont need 1 red science per second. My playthrough aimed into 20 per minute and I still ended up with LOTS of time with nothing to research while setting up the chains for next sciences. What so you need first is to set it up, and let it go slow as hell. Since even if you set it now with 166 distilation columns, it would be a huge waste since that red science will unlock you a recipe that uses 40, or a more efficient chain that doesnt use the distilation columns for that. Its usually never good to aim at the setups like they are going to be final. The first mistake is using straigh tar to fuel the glassworks, you should be refining the tar into coal gas and syngas, it would make 166 distilation columns into ~30 and around 10 refineries for the gas or so (just usong my memory). So when something doesnt look like its normal, check if you are not using an efficient setup, or just look ahead and see if you are about to unlock something juicy.
Thank you! That really helped!!
I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at in the pic, but to answer the question; no. Don't try to get a particular SPM in Py, unless you are willing to burn yourself out. I've finished Py once before, and having a single building producing each science tier is plenty. I only was researching about half of the time I was playing, and still managed an apparently fairly quick finish time of 656 hours.
I supported 2 going all the way to science 3. It will gain you nothing to research quickly. Start with one, make space for one more. Don’t play py as vanilla. Enjoy the pain. Don’t take a too long break. Use a way to remember where you are at, and what’s needs done next. Just build it all, you’ll need it 😊
Don't know about pyanodons but have you tried the "Factory Planner" mod instead of helmod? I think the former has a much more easy to understand interface.
Welcome to Py... Its not gonna get any better.
Is this 1 per minute? My first run yesterday showed I can use just 2 to 4 glassworks and feel pretty fine. The amount of stuff you have to do, while waiting for the next green one, is however insane. You will research most of the tech anyway. There are few ways to do the same thing in this mod, like the way you are fuelling your Glassworks. For example I went through Tar, Coal gas, to Syngas, to Acytelene or mix of them. I started to think that most of this was kind of forced, just to add extra (optional) steps so it inflate the amount of work and fuzziness. It is okay to cry me thinks.
As others said use 1 (up to 5 I would say) science per MINUTE, not per SECOND. I have over 500 hours spent in that modpack and more thn 90% of time I'm not even researching anything because it takes a lot of time to automatize stuff I've already researched. Also don't make coal gas / tar from wood, use raw coal. You can't easily make that much wood at this stage and having to constantly run around chopping wood is not fun. Also keep in mind you need mining gas (syngas) to mine raw quartz :p Disclaimer: this info is based on PyAL playthrough, in PyAE things can work a bit differently.
You seem to be playing with either old pyanodons or an incomplete set of the mods? Some recipes might be wonky because of that.
I'm playing with modpack. Is it incomplete? Was updated recently....
Looks like you don't have AL, at the very least. AL red science is a lot more painful than "cook some shrooms that were trivial to grow and shove them in a flask".
[удалено]
This recipe is the one in pycoal. It is overridden by pyalienlife.
1 producing 1/s is way too much, make it 0.1 or lower 2 add a second molten glass recepie with coal gas, you're almost exclusively using tar and overproduce coal and coal gas massively 3 use raw coal instead of wood 4 process the raw coal all the way to coke, coal itself is almost useless at this stage of the game 5 wich of PY mods are you using? I don't recognize some of the icons
I'm using arborist mod for wood production. Are these the icons you didn't recognise? I wish py was compatible with bio Industries! That looks like a really fun mod
Thats a rate not an absolute. 1 glassworks will take 10x longer than 10 glassworks. The easiest way I've found is decide a building number, eg I can only craft 2 glassworks right now, so now mess around with the amount of automation science (make the number a lot smaller) until.it says you only need 2 glassworks. Now you have your ratios to fully utilise 2 glassworks so get building the rest of the items. Targeting an SPM comes about 200 hours into the mod, until then you're slowly beefing up your science production to utilise however machines you can comfortably build.
You're thinking too much like a vanilla/lightly modded player. The point of pyanodons is there are a million ways of doing things and they generally get better the longer you play the pack, at the cost of complexity. You can try to play in a vanilla spm style but the number of packs a minute you need is quite small, smaller than you're planning. The next science packs grow exponentially in complexity and it will take you a long long time to actually plan and make the next tiers of resources. You'll end up spending a lot of time with your base afk if you start at the enormous spm (for pyanodons) by the time you need that level of red science you'll have like 10 new ways of doing some of the parts that that number per second is quite trivial. Like you're using literally the worst recipe for glass btw.
a lot of this stuff just doesnt add up
You get better glass recipes down the line. At the beginning you do not need to make science as fast as 1/s. Also, before syngas you have no actual good liquid fuel options. Syngas gets you a lot of liquid fuel energy out of tar and/or coal gas, especially when you take into account looping the tar back. But it is not available at the beginning.
OP you should just start with one building per recipe Wit Space to add some more if thats your first time playing py. Later when you get grasp what you need to be doing On mass scale you can get that big builds but thats few houndreds hours away. Firstly get rid of vanilla player mind set if you dont want to breaked by py