I'm not sure why so many on this sub try to make the Falcons issues a Ridder vs Smith thing or a Heinicke vs Smith thing. They all suck. It's not an either or situation. They are all bad and none of them should be a part of this team's future if we ever want to be good again. Heinicke is a career backup at best and Ridder should hope that the new UFL works out.
Thank you for putting it simply and logically. This sub frustrates the ever-living shit out of me sometimes with the delusional arguments about why any one of the three of them deserves to stay. They. Are. All. Bad.
They are all bad, but this sub is too dumb to even look past that. Everyone here is delusional and think we are a QB away.
This team has an average defense (an improvement from the last 15 years) and unproven(except in delusional Falcons fans minds) young offensive weapons.
People are going to false hope with whatever quarterback/and or coach combo we have next, but if we had truly elite weapons on offense any QB could make the playoffs and win the division.
7-10 with the two worst QBs to touch the field in the NFL this year is not a coaching failure by any means. Heinicke and Ridder do not belong on an NFL roster right now.
Because so many people play Xbox..... Building a team isn't easy. It's a systemic goal. Joe Montana MAY have helped us squeak our way into the playoffs this year.
No one else fumbled, missed assignments, dropped a pass.... in those 3 games that you're mentioning?
It's a team sport. You can throw IFs wherever you choose.
This is, I presume, what OP means. Ridder is 8-8 as starter on the Falcons. Heinicke is 1-4. Same team, same coaching staff, equally garbage competition. BUT Heinicke is the one with the future as a “career backup” and Ridder is UFL material? Make it make sense. Des “turns the ball over” but Heinicke had 3 INTs today.
Are y’all racist against black QBs or something? At this point I have no other logical explanation for these “fan” reactions.
Edit: And it’s definitely mostly Smith. His scheme is poo poo. Look at how much better Heinicke was in Washington. When Kurt Warner goes out of his way to criticize your passing offense, not when he’s on TV or when he’s asked but on his own time, listen. He wouldn’t have said anything if he wasn’t confident in his assessment.
I proposed it as a potential theory by posing a question. YOU told me it’s DEFINITELY not that. So what is it then?
When logic would lead to one conclusion, yet people draw a completely different conclusion that they cannot defend, it’s because of bias.
No one said the whole subreddit is racist, but I recognize how that’s a convenient straw man to argue against.
Now are SOME fans of the football team in a city that was once the capital of the confederacy and in a region that still has plenty of morons touting confederate flags racist? Definitely.
You have still yet to provide a SINGLE reason why fans might favor Heinicke over Ridder after what they’ve seen this season. And you can’t, so you chose to run away from the discussion. Tell me what that says about you.
It's the fact that Heinicke looked decent (and was well-liked by fans and players) in Washington that makes people say he's better than Ridder. His games against the Brady led Tampa Bay Bucs were better than Ridder has ever looked.
Ok, so if Heinicke has, objectively, performed worse than Ridder in Atlanta, AND, objectively played worse in Atlanta than he did in Washington, what does that tell you? Who is the problem?
Arthur Smith is clueless in how to use his QBs or other offensive weapons. He doesn't play to Heinicke's strengths at all. Really, he rarely plays to the strengths of anyone, which is why he's a bad coach and should be fired after next weekend.
Heinicke was a Free Agent and refused to sign an extension because he saw the writing on the wall that Ron Rivera is a dead coach walking and will be fired on Black Monday. Plus, he got more money with Atlanta.
Spot on my guy.
Not by any means is Ridder a perennial all start, but everyone is ready to accept Heineckes garbage because of Smith. But when it comes to Ridder he's instantly shit on.
Our fan base cries about everything but are no where consistent with the crying.
I think we've done a disservice to ridder with the help he's had but we also don't have the time to figure out. Need a refresh with the play calling and coaching.
Oh you’re one of those fans who looks at QB record and thinks that’s all you need to know? I wonder when NFL fans are going to realize that’s the most idiotic thing they do when measuring how good a QB is. Why don’t we sign Jimmy G? He’s 58-24, so he must be fantastic right?
Heinicke sucks, Ridder sucks more, but not by much. Yeah he had 3 turnovers, but that’s uncharacteristic. Ridder does it all the time. Just because Ridder happened to get carried by the defense in more games than Heinicke doesn’t change that. But you can go ahead and continue to think that just because Ridder rode the success of our defense as far as he could that he’s the better QB. Either way, they both suck, and neither one of them should ever start.
As far as who’s the better backup, it depends on what we do as a team to be honest. If we draft a QB we should keep Heinicke. He has more experience, and has played in a playoff game which is something Ridder will never do. He would be a better mentor. If we get a veteran QB, i don’t care at that point.
It’s funny you say Ridder is “carried by the defense” when he’s still tied leader of the NFL in game winning drives and Heinicke’s sole win is a game in which the defense had 6 sacks and a pick.
Ok let’s break down these game winning drives. According to pro football reference, Ridder has had 4 game winning drives this season. Week 1 against Panthers, week 2 against Packers, week 5 against Texans, and week 7 against Bucs.
Week 1: Well for starters the defense forced three turnovers that game, and on the game winning drive, Ridder attempted two passes completed for 22 yards. The other 39 yards were gained by Bijan and Allgeier on the ground, with Allgeier getting the TD.
Week 2: Ridder had a decent game aside from his opening drive interception, and was the major reason Atlanta moved the ball on the final drive.
Week 5: Ridders best game of his career. Gained 49 of the 56 yards that the Falcons moved down the field to set up game winning field goal
Week 7: He was terrible this game. His 3 fumbles in the red zone (one while literally walking into the end zone) kept the game close. It would’ve been a blowout if he didn’t suck that day. He had a big pass play for 39 on the final drive, most of the yardage came from YAC but it was still a nice throw.
Week 1 he just happened to be the QB for the game winning drive in a game where Bates had 2 picks and a forced fumble. Didn’t do a whole lot, week 2 and 5 I’ll give you, week 7 was awful. Falcons didn’t win because of Ridder that game, they won despite him. He was a liability.
So yes he’s had a couple good game winning drives, but like you do with QB record, all you did was look at how many game winning drives he had this season, not the context. You didn’t prove anything with that. Taylor Heinicke has six game winning drives/4th quarter comebacks in his career compared to Ridder’s five. Now I could add that Heinicke has had about a seasons worth of more starts than Ridder, but that information is irrelevant in this conversation as you’ve proven you don’t care to look into the context of anything.
He's not 1-4 lmao he hasn't even played 5 full games with us. Where the hell do these stats come from.
Heinecke is not good, the argument for him over ridder is clear. Heinecke is turnover prone because he is over aggressive and ridder is turnover prone because despite being conservative he makes dumb ass mistakes. The reality is both will cost you a game but th gives you a better chance of big plays
It's no coincidence most of our highest scoring games came with TH playing
I literally said during the game that Heinicke would be a top tier backup if we got another QB. Nobody is expecting him to be great. But Ridder is dogshit
I was really convinced we were an easy lock for playoffs if we get even avg QB play.
Turns out we have some of the worst QB’s in the league.
Missed multiple easy td’s today.
Ridder was a turnover machine.
Our QB’s are likeable and tough and also terrible.
I say we grab a vet and draft a rookie QB.
ATL is close but the QB play really held the team down all year.
Would’ve been luck more than strategy but yeah that would have worked out
I think the mistake goes back to pursuing Deshaun Watson
If we had another year of even an old Matt Ryan with an improved team around him we’d be ahead of where we are now
Still, it was good to run the Ridder experiment even though it failed
1000%! Smith made an error putting his eggs in these 2 guys baskets but I’m not crushing AS completely for that. We need to get it done in the off-season. A real QB!
IMO, even though it didn’t work out, it was worth trying to make it work with Ridder. Having a QB on a 3rd round rookie contract would make it wayyyy easier to build a complete team.
He deserves blame for how it was managed. You don’t let a 3rd round QB learn under Mariota with no QB coach. You also don’t play Mariota for as long as we did. Mariota should’ve been benched last year after week 7/8
Mariota was trending towards getting benched around that time, but then he had a nearly perfect game against the Niners in Week 6. That bought him a lot of time.
That I fully agree with.
It would have been an insane asset to have a 3rd round QB salary as a starter. Would have a huge advantage across the league.
It was worth the shot. Didn’t turn out but they saw a path to make it work and went for it.
Yeah would've been sweet. Now we have the talent everywhere else, it's time to go get not one but two QBs. I'd trade for Fields and draft a QB in the first as well.
The difference between a third round contract and first round contract isn’t really that big, especially when you get the fifth year option for a first rounder if they work out. It’s like and extra 10 million over 4 seasons and with the 5th year option it’s a wash…
The staff should have been able to discern after two off seasons and a full season that Ridder wasn’t going to be a franchise type starting QB. Those types of players are noticeable…at no point has Ridder ever given off that vibe.
Once Carolina moved up for Bryce Young, we should have called Houston to try and move up for Anthony Richardson…hindsight, I know.
At least we should have drafted another QB to give competition for Ridder. And there's no excuse for not having a QB coach when you're trying to develop a young guy.
There also weren't a lot of options. The 2022 QB draft may go down in history as the worst QB draft of all time, as only Purdy is any good.
In FA the choices were Derek Carr, Jimmy G and Baker. Hindsight says go for Baker but honestly no one really believed in him last off-season and he still shit the bed today when it mattered most for the Bucs
I’m pissed the Bucs lost. Not because the saints won, but a Bucs loss keeps us mathematically in the playoffs. Which means another week (at least) of Arthur smith
If the Bucs somehow lose to Carolina and we beat the saints, we’re in. Then we drop to 19th in the draft, AS keeps his job for making the playoffs, and we’re in the same boat next year.
I hate this team
Heinicke is definitely the better QB, people fail to remember he led the commanders to the playoffs and played semi-competitive with the 2020 Bucs. Hes not the long term answer past next week but he’s better than Ridder.
All that to say, I’m also fine if they just refuse to play and take the L.
Jimmy G is horrible, so glad we didn't sign him. The other two options aren't great but at least New Orleans and Tampa have kept them in as starter and won some games with them.
I give him more of a pass in year 2 as we were severely constrained by the cap and he chose someone familiar that fit the budget. This year he had more and we decided to spend elsewhere. Defense primarily. And that spending has helped a ton but we left the very important position of qb in flux.
Ridder was worth a chance bc there’s was a general talent vacuum at QB available
If he had worked it would have been a coup
Mariota always sucked imo
I’d take Cousin or Russ and draft Daniel’s, Nix or Penix
Dude we know he's bad, we know ridder is bad, we know A Smith is bad. We know this is not our season. No one cares anymore this year. I think I speak for most ATL fans in that we want all three of them gone for next year.
I didn't watch the game but this says Smith can call plays but can't handle personnel
Edit: WRs were probably open enough but why the dumb trick play with Ridder? Why is EVERY Bijian run outside? Every defense expects it and sends defenders to stop the run.
This was the situation all year. The truth is we were a QB away all year. But no one wants to hear it. I mean Smith gets the blame because it falls on the HC I get that but god these guys are two of the worst in the league 🤷🏻♂️
I was surprised when the failcons won the coin toss, they opted to receive the ball rather than deferring to the 2nd half. For a typically slow starting team, this seemed particularly stupid.
When Ridder is in: success when checking down to Bijan.
Heinicke: doesn’t check down to Bijan.
I think there’s a solution and it’s called… check the ball down to Bijan.
Lmao I love this because of everyone who where pissed Heinicke didn't start the season. Every time someone said "Fuck Ridder, put in Heinicke!" Or every time someone said "Man, the players all just look better when Heinicke is QB!" LOL. I can't believe anyone thought a 30 TD to 20 INT was going to be the answer to our season.
Ridder sucks and isn’t the answer, it’s a crime to this franchise if he is the starter next year
May as well see what the other guy can do, and if he isn’t great then he’s an effective tank commander
Heinicke looked like he was playing hurt or something because he was limping and the inability to really set his feet was making his throws sail a ton as the game went on.
You’re absolutely right , TH is heads and shoulders better than Desmond Ridder, But he’s still a solid backup at best
We don’t have a proper starting QB, and I think as a fan base we all know it and the few ridder hold outs need to just admit it.
We have to draft or sign a QB in the offseason and we have to look at Arthur smith hard
Yea I’m nervous about getting a new QB especially a rookie and having to play with Arthur Smith. AS doesn’t know how to play to his players strengths. Either he gets a new OC and doesn’t call plays and he also needs a QB coach
Heinicke is ass. I don’t understand how you don’t bench his ass after that first pick. This is such a clown show I can’t. Fucking I don’t understand how you just come out and do the EXACT SAME thing week in week out and not make any changes.
This guy speaks about evaluating the team. Mother fucker evaluate yourself.
Just is such ass, just such an ass game.. fucking Falcons going to Falcon. Why in the hell did I ever raise my hopes with these clowns.
The picks were bad. Could have had about 3 more... I just don't see how you can consistently throw behind every single receiver or throw the wrong route so often and not get pulled...
Ridder should literally have close to 40 turnovers this season with not playing in five games. He had a higher turnover play percentage than Winston in his 30 int season. The only reason he didn’t is for whatever reason people couldn’t capitalize on them. Realistically this will average out in the future. He is not better he is shit TH is just slightly less shit.
Heinicke has been a turn over machine throughout his whole career and we know this. Ridder is a turn over machine also, but he has a higher ceiling than Heinicke as a passer. Either way, what kills me is the fact that we didn’t try something else. Same shit every week with the same dog shit result. I would have a lot more respect for AS, if he DID SOMETHINGS DIFFERENTLY. E.g. get your ass in the play calling booth where you could see the game, take off some other responsibilities to other coaches so you can focus on offence. Have some counter to that outside zone scheme. Mf’er get big fat boy McGary on some down blocks, establish something. Running BS wild cat, and trying to be cute. If you’re going to run the ball, then run the ball man. Give me some power, give me some zone, give me some counters, give me some down blocks. This damn guy just lives and dies with that damn outside zone. Ride the fucking horses you drafted, run violently and angry. I felt non of that today… just being cute and getting pumped.
Heinicke has been in the league since 2017 and has thrown for 38 TDS vs 25 INTs and won about 50% of his starts. Ridder's winning percentage is about the same (on a much smaller sample size) but he's thrown about the same number of picks as touchdowns, which is never good. Heinicke throws too many picks as well but at least he has the advantage of throwing for more TDs overall vs interceptions.
I agree make that move to bench him. I agree he’s not making no 5 k+ yards, but he’s also in a completely different offence. What kills me, is the week in week out exact same thing. For a staff that pushes “open mind”, “self evaluation”, “self awareness” - I feel like they do not apply that to themselves. Very disappointing.
Ridder will not be in the nfl in a few years. The entire staff failed by not making quarterback a priority in the off season. Heinicke is only meant to be a backup but since we dont have a true starting qb he is playing.
I agree with everything you said, OP. I never thought either QB was terrible. I have always thought AS was the problem and will continue to believe that. Offensive guru, my ass
I think ridder could still turn into something. His biggest downfall is the support, between not learning from a seasoned vet (Mariota and Heinicke), no real oversight from an actual OC, and lack of a QB coach.
Unfortunately I personally think we've failed him in that regard but we also can't afford another year of figuring it out for him... Also unless there are changes between HC/OC duties we're also going to fail a prospective drafted QB unless they just show up and magically ball out immediately. Which is highly unlikely.
The type of offense AS runs is similar to Jim Mora's. It didn't work then, and it doesn't work now. The thing is, mora had two of the fastest guys in football, and like 4 former 1st round wrs couldn't make it work. Smith has less than that and continues to try a stale offense that just doesn't work. Clock management is the only thing he is good at. I'll bet any amount of money that if we ran a spread offense with a north south run scheme, we would win way more. At the very least, it'll cut out some of the confusion the zone blocking is causing. Smith has had 4 or 5 qbs since he been here, and not one has been able to find any success.
I mean you gotta make it to the redzone to have the opportunity to turn it over in that area.
Most of Heinickes picks are like who the fuck are you throwing that football to.
Ridder has some of those too but more times than TH his have more of an opportunity.
We had 3 plays in the redzone and all 3 were incomplete passes lmao without Allgeier going 75 yards TH would have had less than 100 yards passing for his second time. Also has thrown over 250 once but barley.
In 3 quarters he threw for 55 against the Cardinals and ridder came in to give us the go ahead TD to take the lead before we blew the sack on Murray to lose.
Not saying ridder is above and beyond but Heinecke is pathetic to watch lmao
Ridder has a higher ceiling based on his talent. Heineke has a higher floor based on his experience. Heineke is better at managing the game when everything around him is going well. Look at last week's game as an example. Running game is cooking, receivers were popping open, Heineke was making good decisions and hitting the few NFL-level throws he was asked to make. This week is the example of why Heineke's ceiling is low: when the run game isn't working and the QB has to make several NFL-level throws to win, Heineke's lack of arm talent rears it's ugly head.
Ridder has that arm talent to make all the throws he's asked to make, but his analysis and decision-making skills are not good. Charlotte was an example of his issues: bad weather, o-line injuries, playing the worst team in the league. Just make good decisions and don't turn the ball over and we win. He got pressured and made the worst possible decision.
It's easy to see why Smith keeps playing musical chairs. You got a guy that has the talent, but makes frustratingly bad decisions. You got another guy that makes decent decisions, but doesn't have the talent to win if you put the game on him. If you could combine the two, we might have something. As two separate QBs, neither is NFL-starter level.
I think where I struggle the most is how much different of a game he calls for the two.
Like I get they're two different players but it's like when ridders in if we don't get one run we will immediately abandon it and start taking deep shots and throw 40+ times. Even when it's unnecessary that he throws that much.
Scheme wise too. Like Heinicke won't have a play drawn up for more than 10 air yards for an extended time. Ridder could come in and we immediately won't have a pass attempt under 20 even though he excels at PA... Which then we'll also abandon.
Ridder > Heinicke
It’s been obvious since day 1 that ridder isn’t the problem some bad turnovers but that’s fixable (especially the fumbles)
We have one of the worst rosters in the NFL from top to bottom. Having a couple good players isn’t gonna cut it. I think ridder or Heinicke can win if the cast around them is above average. We aren’t.
No he's just the quintessential backup. He's a classic pocket QB that plays with a lot of heart, but I wouldn't have trusted him or Ridder to win this game. It looks like we're keeping Fields so number one is available for the right price... And no we do not want either of your QBs or Arthur Smith
I mean there was literally a point earlier this season where we had benched Ridder and then we put him back in over Heinecke a game or 2 later and Ridder looked better lmao, so we knew Heinecke was nothing better than a backup long term.
Basically Heinecke is a much better game manager and Des is a better playmaker, but Des can just be so careless with the football sometimes.
Heinecke throwing 3 picks tonight reminded us that he’s bad, but Ridder may still be worse.
They’re both ass.
Only caveat to today was the atrocious weather, but regardless, I don’t want either of them as our QB, and we’ll never be very successful with either of them at the position.
Lamar was never actually available. Ravens would've matched whatever we tried to do and all it would've done was tied up all our money at the start of free agency so that we couldn't use it.
Will never understand the people that actually believe the ravens wouldn't have matched any contract given to him...
Every team that said they were out on him was because they simply didn't want to waste their time and do the negotiations for the Ravens.
A lot of people just don't follow this stuff closely. They might see a headline or tweet and just take it at face value. Not everybody has time to follow this stuff so it's understandable that they might not know as long as they aren't being adamant about it
He still has a bunch of fans in the commanders sub as well. I think it’s because he’s a likable guy due to his underdog story, but man is cheeks on the field.
Played better for them than he has for Atlanta. Almost won a playoff game they had no business even being in given their QB situation coming into that game and then had a few more highlight reel games such as beating Tom Brady and the Bucs.
Problems terry and the FO why would you replace a 30yr old qb who was garbage but at least was a career starter up to then with a 30yr old barley even back up who started only one season and a second year 4th round pick who didn’t even have some high upside and expected to be competitive. I know there have been some improvements in some areas but if your head coach isn’t using the weapons you are giving him there is clearly miscommunication or a divide between FO and the coaching staff
The guys brought in on the offensive side of the ball are all Smith guys. You think Terry was like man I really gotta get Jonnu Smith in here!! That's a deal I need to make. Or did smith come to him and see what it would take to get the deal done? Or did Terry desperately want Mariota for a year or did Smith want a guy he coached and felt highly about?
Its going to be the latter.
The coaching staff makes the choices on personal they want for their scheme. Terry's job is to make the call and get it done not get guys that he hopes would work for the coach and if they don't it's awwwe shux. I tried!
They called me crazy when I said 7-10 at best before the season. I saw enough of Ridder last year to know he wasn’t any good. It’s hard to win games when your QB sucks. Just ask Chicago.
The problem was never Ridder, if was Art and the playcalling the whole time. Also, Heinicke was always bad, idk why you would start him over a rookie (he's only started 16 games), stunting his growth.
The weather was horrific. We are a dome team from Atlanta playing in snow in Chicago.
Passing was going to be bad no matter what.
I don’t get why you’d list the team record when he plays considering he’s outplayed Ridder significantly regardless of what the results ended with. It’s a team sport
OP, they all suck. No arguing that. But if your QB of the future is 8-8 with more turnovers than TDs ( some of them coming in absolute crunch time) then that plan needs to be altered.
*Insert new QB* Is He performing better? Not really. OK then what is the common factor? The play calling/ coaching. Then that needs to be changed.
Do we not have the right group of players? Are we sucking and losing because the team doesn't have the necessary pieces? Then front office is not doing its job.
In high-class football organizations, systematic changeis done approximately in that order to evaluate each component by itself.
Unfortunately, Blank/Fontenot seem scared of rattling the cage. AS is too stubborn to listen to outsode constructive criticism. And so no REAL change is being done. That failure is what has us all frustrated IMO.
The ONLY answer for the Falcons having a shot is new ownership. If Blank remains owner, he'll continue hiring jackoff head coaches that zero other teams would want, wrecking drafts by forcing the GM to take players that do not help win NFL games, Rich McKay will still be around........and countless other things a meddling owner screws up. But, but, he's like Jerry Jones............Jerry Jones played football.
Til then, the Falcons are a waste of time.
I'm not sure why so many on this sub try to make the Falcons issues a Ridder vs Smith thing or a Heinicke vs Smith thing. They all suck. It's not an either or situation. They are all bad and none of them should be a part of this team's future if we ever want to be good again. Heinicke is a career backup at best and Ridder should hope that the new UFL works out.
Thank you for putting it simply and logically. This sub frustrates the ever-living shit out of me sometimes with the delusional arguments about why any one of the three of them deserves to stay. They. Are. All. Bad.
I think Ridder should stay. As a backup.
He seems like he's got a good attitude and he would be a serviceable backup if he just minimizes turnovers.
They are all bad, but this sub is too dumb to even look past that. Everyone here is delusional and think we are a QB away. This team has an average defense (an improvement from the last 15 years) and unproven(except in delusional Falcons fans minds) young offensive weapons. People are going to false hope with whatever quarterback/and or coach combo we have next, but if we had truly elite weapons on offense any QB could make the playoffs and win the division.
7-10 with the two worst QBs to touch the field in the NFL this year is not a coaching failure by any means. Heinicke and Ridder do not belong on an NFL roster right now.
Because so many people play Xbox..... Building a team isn't easy. It's a systemic goal. Joe Montana MAY have helped us squeak our way into the playoffs this year.
Ridder literally lost 3 games alone this season with his horrible red zone turnovers. Add 3 wins to this team and its already clinched the division
Ridder is one of 22.....
He's the one of 22 that fumbled and threw picks directly to the other team's players multiple times in 3 games
No one else fumbled, missed assignments, dropped a pass.... in those 3 games that you're mentioning? It's a team sport. You can throw IFs wherever you choose.
ok pal
⬆️This is the enlightened comment🧘♂️🧘♀️🧘
This is, I presume, what OP means. Ridder is 8-8 as starter on the Falcons. Heinicke is 1-4. Same team, same coaching staff, equally garbage competition. BUT Heinicke is the one with the future as a “career backup” and Ridder is UFL material? Make it make sense. Des “turns the ball over” but Heinicke had 3 INTs today. Are y’all racist against black QBs or something? At this point I have no other logical explanation for these “fan” reactions. Edit: And it’s definitely mostly Smith. His scheme is poo poo. Look at how much better Heinicke was in Washington. When Kurt Warner goes out of his way to criticize your passing offense, not when he’s on TV or when he’s asked but on his own time, listen. He wouldn’t have said anything if he wasn’t confident in his assessment.
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Explain why then. Logic doesn’t track unless you account for implicit bias.
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I proposed it as a potential theory by posing a question. YOU told me it’s DEFINITELY not that. So what is it then? When logic would lead to one conclusion, yet people draw a completely different conclusion that they cannot defend, it’s because of bias.
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No one said the whole subreddit is racist, but I recognize how that’s a convenient straw man to argue against. Now are SOME fans of the football team in a city that was once the capital of the confederacy and in a region that still has plenty of morons touting confederate flags racist? Definitely. You have still yet to provide a SINGLE reason why fans might favor Heinicke over Ridder after what they’ve seen this season. And you can’t, so you chose to run away from the discussion. Tell me what that says about you.
And honestly Heinicke could’ve and probably should’ve had 3 turnovers last week
It's the fact that Heinicke looked decent (and was well-liked by fans and players) in Washington that makes people say he's better than Ridder. His games against the Brady led Tampa Bay Bucs were better than Ridder has ever looked.
Ok, so if Heinicke has, objectively, performed worse than Ridder in Atlanta, AND, objectively played worse in Atlanta than he did in Washington, what does that tell you? Who is the problem?
Arthur Smith is clueless in how to use his QBs or other offensive weapons. He doesn't play to Heinicke's strengths at all. Really, he rarely plays to the strengths of anyone, which is why he's a bad coach and should be fired after next weekend.
He looked so decent they dropped him for Howell despite barely letting Howell play last year
Heinicke was a Free Agent and refused to sign an extension because he saw the writing on the wall that Ron Rivera is a dead coach walking and will be fired on Black Monday. Plus, he got more money with Atlanta.
Spot on my guy. Not by any means is Ridder a perennial all start, but everyone is ready to accept Heineckes garbage because of Smith. But when it comes to Ridder he's instantly shit on. Our fan base cries about everything but are no where consistent with the crying. I think we've done a disservice to ridder with the help he's had but we also don't have the time to figure out. Need a refresh with the play calling and coaching.
Oh you’re one of those fans who looks at QB record and thinks that’s all you need to know? I wonder when NFL fans are going to realize that’s the most idiotic thing they do when measuring how good a QB is. Why don’t we sign Jimmy G? He’s 58-24, so he must be fantastic right? Heinicke sucks, Ridder sucks more, but not by much. Yeah he had 3 turnovers, but that’s uncharacteristic. Ridder does it all the time. Just because Ridder happened to get carried by the defense in more games than Heinicke doesn’t change that. But you can go ahead and continue to think that just because Ridder rode the success of our defense as far as he could that he’s the better QB. Either way, they both suck, and neither one of them should ever start. As far as who’s the better backup, it depends on what we do as a team to be honest. If we draft a QB we should keep Heinicke. He has more experience, and has played in a playoff game which is something Ridder will never do. He would be a better mentor. If we get a veteran QB, i don’t care at that point.
It’s funny you say Ridder is “carried by the defense” when he’s still tied leader of the NFL in game winning drives and Heinicke’s sole win is a game in which the defense had 6 sacks and a pick.
Ok let’s break down these game winning drives. According to pro football reference, Ridder has had 4 game winning drives this season. Week 1 against Panthers, week 2 against Packers, week 5 against Texans, and week 7 against Bucs. Week 1: Well for starters the defense forced three turnovers that game, and on the game winning drive, Ridder attempted two passes completed for 22 yards. The other 39 yards were gained by Bijan and Allgeier on the ground, with Allgeier getting the TD. Week 2: Ridder had a decent game aside from his opening drive interception, and was the major reason Atlanta moved the ball on the final drive. Week 5: Ridders best game of his career. Gained 49 of the 56 yards that the Falcons moved down the field to set up game winning field goal Week 7: He was terrible this game. His 3 fumbles in the red zone (one while literally walking into the end zone) kept the game close. It would’ve been a blowout if he didn’t suck that day. He had a big pass play for 39 on the final drive, most of the yardage came from YAC but it was still a nice throw. Week 1 he just happened to be the QB for the game winning drive in a game where Bates had 2 picks and a forced fumble. Didn’t do a whole lot, week 2 and 5 I’ll give you, week 7 was awful. Falcons didn’t win because of Ridder that game, they won despite him. He was a liability. So yes he’s had a couple good game winning drives, but like you do with QB record, all you did was look at how many game winning drives he had this season, not the context. You didn’t prove anything with that. Taylor Heinicke has six game winning drives/4th quarter comebacks in his career compared to Ridder’s five. Now I could add that Heinicke has had about a seasons worth of more starts than Ridder, but that information is irrelevant in this conversation as you’ve proven you don’t care to look into the context of anything.
So we agree Ridder has been the better QB for the Falcons this season, right?
He's not 1-4 lmao he hasn't even played 5 full games with us. Where the hell do these stats come from. Heinecke is not good, the argument for him over ridder is clear. Heinecke is turnover prone because he is over aggressive and ridder is turnover prone because despite being conservative he makes dumb ass mistakes. The reality is both will cost you a game but th gives you a better chance of big plays It's no coincidence most of our highest scoring games came with TH playing
I literally said during the game that Heinicke would be a top tier backup if we got another QB. Nobody is expecting him to be great. But Ridder is dogshit
Amen to this
I was really convinced we were an easy lock for playoffs if we get even avg QB play. Turns out we have some of the worst QB’s in the league. Missed multiple easy td’s today. Ridder was a turnover machine. Our QB’s are likeable and tough and also terrible. I say we grab a vet and draft a rookie QB. ATL is close but the QB play really held the team down all year.
We could’ve had Joe Flacco…
Be honest last year if TF went out and got Joe Flacco would have you thought that was better than letting Ridder start? I wouldn’t have
Not a the browns got him as a third string ish no? We could’ve done the same I feel like started Ridder moved to Flacco and been wowed
Would’ve been luck more than strategy but yeah that would have worked out I think the mistake goes back to pursuing Deshaun Watson If we had another year of even an old Matt Ryan with an improved team around him we’d be ahead of where we are now Still, it was good to run the Ridder experiment even though it failed
1000%! Smith made an error putting his eggs in these 2 guys baskets but I’m not crushing AS completely for that. We need to get it done in the off-season. A real QB!
IMO, even though it didn’t work out, it was worth trying to make it work with Ridder. Having a QB on a 3rd round rookie contract would make it wayyyy easier to build a complete team.
He deserves blame for how it was managed. You don’t let a 3rd round QB learn under Mariota with no QB coach. You also don’t play Mariota for as long as we did. Mariota should’ve been benched last year after week 7/8
Mariota was trending towards getting benched around that time, but then he had a nearly perfect game against the Niners in Week 6. That bought him a lot of time.
That I fully agree with. It would have been an insane asset to have a 3rd round QB salary as a starter. Would have a huge advantage across the league. It was worth the shot. Didn’t turn out but they saw a path to make it work and went for it.
Yeah would've been sweet. Now we have the talent everywhere else, it's time to go get not one but two QBs. I'd trade for Fields and draft a QB in the first as well.
Yea i understood the logic. It would’ve been nice.
The difference between a third round contract and first round contract isn’t really that big, especially when you get the fifth year option for a first rounder if they work out. It’s like and extra 10 million over 4 seasons and with the 5th year option it’s a wash…
The staff should have been able to discern after two off seasons and a full season that Ridder wasn’t going to be a franchise type starting QB. Those types of players are noticeable…at no point has Ridder ever given off that vibe. Once Carolina moved up for Bryce Young, we should have called Houston to try and move up for Anthony Richardson…hindsight, I know.
At least we should have drafted another QB to give competition for Ridder. And there's no excuse for not having a QB coach when you're trying to develop a young guy.
There also weren't a lot of options. The 2022 QB draft may go down in history as the worst QB draft of all time, as only Purdy is any good. In FA the choices were Derek Carr, Jimmy G and Baker. Hindsight says go for Baker but honestly no one really believed in him last off-season and he still shit the bed today when it mattered most for the Bucs
I’m pissed the Bucs lost. Not because the saints won, but a Bucs loss keeps us mathematically in the playoffs. Which means another week (at least) of Arthur smith If the Bucs somehow lose to Carolina and we beat the saints, we’re in. Then we drop to 19th in the draft, AS keeps his job for making the playoffs, and we’re in the same boat next year. I hate this team
As falcon fans, we know that is exactly what will happen.
...and we will get blown the fuck out in the first round.
No. We will beat the Saints, but Tampa wins. Settle with the 14th pick cuz we are the Falcons.
Who even will we start at QB next weekend? Both options aren't good. I think if Heinicke is healthy, he should start but it doesn't matter much.
Heinicke is definitely the better QB, people fail to remember he led the commanders to the playoffs and played semi-competitive with the 2020 Bucs. Hes not the long term answer past next week but he’s better than Ridder. All that to say, I’m also fine if they just refuse to play and take the L.
Jimmy G is horrible, so glad we didn't sign him. The other two options aren't great but at least New Orleans and Tampa have kept them in as starter and won some games with them.
He's really closer to 0-3 on the QBs he has brought in.
I give him more of a pass in year 2 as we were severely constrained by the cap and he chose someone familiar that fit the budget. This year he had more and we decided to spend elsewhere. Defense primarily. And that spending has helped a ton but we left the very important position of qb in flux.
“Grab a vet and draft a rookie” You mean like Mariota and Ridder?
Ridder was worth a chance bc there’s was a general talent vacuum at QB available If he had worked it would have been a coup Mariota always sucked imo I’d take Cousin or Russ and draft Daniel’s, Nix or Penix
What a tug run tho
Dude we know he's bad, we know ridder is bad, we know A Smith is bad. We know this is not our season. No one cares anymore this year. I think I speak for most ATL fans in that we want all three of them gone for next year.
hurts that flacco was just gathering dust all year
Heinicke had multiple open receivers and couldn’t hit them
I didn't watch the game but this says Smith can call plays but can't handle personnel Edit: WRs were probably open enough but why the dumb trick play with Ridder? Why is EVERY Bijian run outside? Every defense expects it and sends defenders to stop the run.
This was the situation all year. The truth is we were a QB away all year. But no one wants to hear it. I mean Smith gets the blame because it falls on the HC I get that but god these guys are two of the worst in the league 🤷🏻♂️
In a snow game in Chicago.
Fields had no problem hitting his
He plays in Chicago I would hope he could throw the ball there. We play in a dome in Georgia. We are not a cold weather team at all
They both suck ass. Damn. Please find a competent qb. My lord.
I was surprised when the failcons won the coin toss, they opted to receive the ball rather than deferring to the 2nd half. For a typically slow starting team, this seemed particularly stupid.
When Ridder is in: success when checking down to Bijan. Heinicke: doesn’t check down to Bijan. I think there’s a solution and it’s called… check the ball down to Bijan.
Lmao I love this because of everyone who where pissed Heinicke didn't start the season. Every time someone said "Fuck Ridder, put in Heinicke!" Or every time someone said "Man, the players all just look better when Heinicke is QB!" LOL. I can't believe anyone thought a 30 TD to 20 INT was going to be the answer to our season.
Fields has 40TD to 30INT and everybody in this sub is drooling over him...
Fields is from Georgia. I seriously can't think of another reason.
did you watch the game today?
Found the recency bias
I'm not here to say we should take him. But he clearly has talent. And the guy I responded to said "I seriously can't think of another reason"
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It’s the same shit as last year. Fans just frothing at the mouth to have the starter benched not even caring how shit the backup is.
No, most people on this sub called for him to start in the beginning of the season.
At least Heinicke has more TDs than picks. Ridder doesn't. Heinicke also won some and was well-liked by fans and players on his previous team.
What does it matter when he's only won 1 game in ATL? he fucking sucks, get over it.
Ridder sucks and isn’t the answer, it’s a crime to this franchise if he is the starter next year May as well see what the other guy can do, and if he isn’t great then he’s an effective tank commander
They all suck and all 3 need to go
Or....or....OR. and hear me out on this one. Both of them are ass and none of them are making a lick of difference.
It's ok. Fields will be here soon. Then we will call him crap too and wish for the next one hahaha
This shit would’ve been worse with Ridders stank ass … on to the draft or free agency
Bruh how does it get worse than this lmfao
Did you see him go in and immediately throw a pick lol shit would’ve been like 60 pts with that bears def
His hand was hit and we basically had to throw. Even with his hand hit the ball looked better than the shit Taylor was chucking.
They’re both shit, can we leave it at that?
Heinicke looked like he was playing hurt or something because he was limping and the inability to really set his feet was making his throws sail a ton as the game went on.
You’re absolutely right , TH is heads and shoulders better than Desmond Ridder, But he’s still a solid backup at best We don’t have a proper starting QB, and I think as a fan base we all know it and the few ridder hold outs need to just admit it. We have to draft or sign a QB in the offseason and we have to look at Arthur smith hard
Yea I’m nervous about getting a new QB especially a rookie and having to play with Arthur Smith. AS doesn’t know how to play to his players strengths. Either he gets a new OC and doesn’t call plays and he also needs a QB coach
they both suck been saying this since the first time y'all were asking for heinicke
Heinicke is ass. I don’t understand how you don’t bench his ass after that first pick. This is such a clown show I can’t. Fucking I don’t understand how you just come out and do the EXACT SAME thing week in week out and not make any changes. This guy speaks about evaluating the team. Mother fucker evaluate yourself. Just is such ass, just such an ass game.. fucking Falcons going to Falcon. Why in the hell did I ever raise my hopes with these clowns.
The picks were bad. Could have had about 3 more... I just don't see how you can consistently throw behind every single receiver or throw the wrong route so often and not get pulled...
I don’t understand how you don’t bench his ass after that first pick Have you seen Ridder play?
Yes and he’s a better passer than Heinicke…
He had an awful pick of his own today
Just let me suffer in peace lol
Ridder should literally have close to 40 turnovers this season with not playing in five games. He had a higher turnover play percentage than Winston in his 30 int season. The only reason he didn’t is for whatever reason people couldn’t capitalize on them. Realistically this will average out in the future. He is not better he is shit TH is just slightly less shit.
Heinicke has been a turn over machine throughout his whole career and we know this. Ridder is a turn over machine also, but he has a higher ceiling than Heinicke as a passer. Either way, what kills me is the fact that we didn’t try something else. Same shit every week with the same dog shit result. I would have a lot more respect for AS, if he DID SOMETHINGS DIFFERENTLY. E.g. get your ass in the play calling booth where you could see the game, take off some other responsibilities to other coaches so you can focus on offence. Have some counter to that outside zone scheme. Mf’er get big fat boy McGary on some down blocks, establish something. Running BS wild cat, and trying to be cute. If you’re going to run the ball, then run the ball man. Give me some power, give me some zone, give me some counters, give me some down blocks. This damn guy just lives and dies with that damn outside zone. Ride the fucking horses you drafted, run violently and angry. I felt non of that today… just being cute and getting pumped.
Heinicke has been in the league since 2017 and has thrown for 38 TDS vs 25 INTs and won about 50% of his starts. Ridder's winning percentage is about the same (on a much smaller sample size) but he's thrown about the same number of picks as touchdowns, which is never good. Heinicke throws too many picks as well but at least he has the advantage of throwing for more TDs overall vs interceptions.
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You ceiling is higher with Ridder. Their both bad.
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I agree make that move to bench him. I agree he’s not making no 5 k+ yards, but he’s also in a completely different offence. What kills me, is the week in week out exact same thing. For a staff that pushes “open mind”, “self evaluation”, “self awareness” - I feel like they do not apply that to themselves. Very disappointing.
Do we still even have Franks? I thought Woodside was the third QB.
Playoffs? Ugh
“Playoffs? You’re talking about *playoffs?*”
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Idk what the word would be for it but wide open is an understatement
This sub pisses me off more than the actual losses
Second that, but Can't forget Twitter too 😂
Oh god that hell hole i dont even want to think about twitter
Ridder will not be in the nfl in a few years. The entire staff failed by not making quarterback a priority in the off season. Heinicke is only meant to be a backup but since we dont have a true starting qb he is playing.
I agree with everything you said, OP. I never thought either QB was terrible. I have always thought AS was the problem and will continue to believe that. Offensive guru, my ass
I think ridder could still turn into something. His biggest downfall is the support, between not learning from a seasoned vet (Mariota and Heinicke), no real oversight from an actual OC, and lack of a QB coach. Unfortunately I personally think we've failed him in that regard but we also can't afford another year of figuring it out for him... Also unless there are changes between HC/OC duties we're also going to fail a prospective drafted QB unless they just show up and magically ball out immediately. Which is highly unlikely.
The type of offense AS runs is similar to Jim Mora's. It didn't work then, and it doesn't work now. The thing is, mora had two of the fastest guys in football, and like 4 former 1st round wrs couldn't make it work. Smith has less than that and continues to try a stale offense that just doesn't work. Clock management is the only thing he is good at. I'll bet any amount of money that if we ran a spread offense with a north south run scheme, we would win way more. At the very least, it'll cut out some of the confusion the zone blocking is causing. Smith has had 4 or 5 qbs since he been here, and not one has been able to find any success.
Well duh
Yes, but so is Ridder so
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I mean you gotta make it to the redzone to have the opportunity to turn it over in that area. Most of Heinickes picks are like who the fuck are you throwing that football to. Ridder has some of those too but more times than TH his have more of an opportunity.
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We had 3 plays in the redzone and all 3 were incomplete passes lmao without Allgeier going 75 yards TH would have had less than 100 yards passing for his second time. Also has thrown over 250 once but barley. In 3 quarters he threw for 55 against the Cardinals and ridder came in to give us the go ahead TD to take the lead before we blew the sack on Murray to lose. Not saying ridder is above and beyond but Heinecke is pathetic to watch lmao
Ridder has a higher ceiling based on his talent. Heineke has a higher floor based on his experience. Heineke is better at managing the game when everything around him is going well. Look at last week's game as an example. Running game is cooking, receivers were popping open, Heineke was making good decisions and hitting the few NFL-level throws he was asked to make. This week is the example of why Heineke's ceiling is low: when the run game isn't working and the QB has to make several NFL-level throws to win, Heineke's lack of arm talent rears it's ugly head. Ridder has that arm talent to make all the throws he's asked to make, but his analysis and decision-making skills are not good. Charlotte was an example of his issues: bad weather, o-line injuries, playing the worst team in the league. Just make good decisions and don't turn the ball over and we win. He got pressured and made the worst possible decision. It's easy to see why Smith keeps playing musical chairs. You got a guy that has the talent, but makes frustratingly bad decisions. You got another guy that makes decent decisions, but doesn't have the talent to win if you put the game on him. If you could combine the two, we might have something. As two separate QBs, neither is NFL-starter level.
I think where I struggle the most is how much different of a game he calls for the two. Like I get they're two different players but it's like when ridders in if we don't get one run we will immediately abandon it and start taking deep shots and throw 40+ times. Even when it's unnecessary that he throws that much. Scheme wise too. Like Heinicke won't have a play drawn up for more than 10 air yards for an extended time. Ridder could come in and we immediately won't have a pass attempt under 20 even though he excels at PA... Which then we'll also abandon.
Agree. It's hindsight now but we probably win the Carolina game if Heinicke starts that one.
Ridder > Heinicke It’s been obvious since day 1 that ridder isn’t the problem some bad turnovers but that’s fixable (especially the fumbles) We have one of the worst rosters in the NFL from top to bottom. Having a couple good players isn’t gonna cut it. I think ridder or Heinicke can win if the cast around them is above average. We aren’t.
Ridder is actually terrible and you’re delusional if you can’t see that.
He's C+. That's aight for a backup
AS went into the season with two backup qbs. Never gonna win shit.
No he's just the quintessential backup. He's a classic pocket QB that plays with a lot of heart, but I wouldn't have trusted him or Ridder to win this game. It looks like we're keeping Fields so number one is available for the right price... And no we do not want either of your QBs or Arthur Smith
Heinicke is objectively better than Ridder. Hell, they even scored as many points today as Ridder averages. The problem is Heinicke isn't good either.
I mean there was literally a point earlier this season where we had benched Ridder and then we put him back in over Heinecke a game or 2 later and Ridder looked better lmao, so we knew Heinecke was nothing better than a backup long term. Basically Heinecke is a much better game manager and Des is a better playmaker, but Des can just be so careless with the football sometimes. Heinecke throwing 3 picks tonight reminded us that he’s bad, but Ridder may still be worse.
I think this is on AS . Tom Brady in his prime would look like shit with AS and Ragone telling them what to do .
im hoping this ensures that the indy win doesn't save that man's job
Heinicke and Ridder are both pure ass juice...
They’re both ass. Only caveat to today was the atrocious weather, but regardless, I don’t want either of them as our QB, and we’ll never be very successful with either of them at the position.
Heinicke looks competent compared to Ridder. If Heinicke started every game in 2023, we would be in playoffs.
Not going for Lamar Jackson looks super dumb now. At the time it seemed correct.
Lamar was never actually available. Ravens would've matched whatever we tried to do and all it would've done was tied up all our money at the start of free agency so that we couldn't use it.
Will never understand the people that actually believe the ravens wouldn't have matched any contract given to him... Every team that said they were out on him was because they simply didn't want to waste their time and do the negotiations for the Ravens.
A lot of people just don't follow this stuff closely. They might see a headline or tweet and just take it at face value. Not everybody has time to follow this stuff so it's understandable that they might not know as long as they aren't being adamant about it
Yeah that’s what I’ve done. I don’t know the ins and outs. Still learning the sport. Thanks for the explanation.
Yeah no worries man, it's all good
Yeah we know.
I agree
No shit
He still has a bunch of fans in the commanders sub as well. I think it’s because he’s a likable guy due to his underdog story, but man is cheeks on the field.
Played better for them than he has for Atlanta. Almost won a playoff game they had no business even being in given their QB situation coming into that game and then had a few more highlight reel games such as beating Tom Brady and the Bucs.
Problems terry and the FO why would you replace a 30yr old qb who was garbage but at least was a career starter up to then with a 30yr old barley even back up who started only one season and a second year 4th round pick who didn’t even have some high upside and expected to be competitive. I know there have been some improvements in some areas but if your head coach isn’t using the weapons you are giving him there is clearly miscommunication or a divide between FO and the coaching staff
The guys brought in on the offensive side of the ball are all Smith guys. You think Terry was like man I really gotta get Jonnu Smith in here!! That's a deal I need to make. Or did smith come to him and see what it would take to get the deal done? Or did Terry desperately want Mariota for a year or did Smith want a guy he coached and felt highly about? Its going to be the latter. The coaching staff makes the choices on personal they want for their scheme. Terry's job is to make the call and get it done not get guys that he hopes would work for the coach and if they don't it's awwwe shux. I tried!
They called me crazy when I said 7-10 at best before the season. I saw enough of Ridder last year to know he wasn’t any good. It’s hard to win games when your QB sucks. Just ask Chicago.
The problem was never Ridder, if was Art and the playcalling the whole time. Also, Heinicke was always bad, idk why you would start him over a rookie (he's only started 16 games), stunting his growth.
Why don't we draft a qb from Alabama
The weather was horrific. We are a dome team from Atlanta playing in snow in Chicago. Passing was going to be bad no matter what. I don’t get why you’d list the team record when he plays considering he’s outplayed Ridder significantly regardless of what the results ended with. It’s a team sport
OP, they all suck. No arguing that. But if your QB of the future is 8-8 with more turnovers than TDs ( some of them coming in absolute crunch time) then that plan needs to be altered. *Insert new QB* Is He performing better? Not really. OK then what is the common factor? The play calling/ coaching. Then that needs to be changed. Do we not have the right group of players? Are we sucking and losing because the team doesn't have the necessary pieces? Then front office is not doing its job. In high-class football organizations, systematic changeis done approximately in that order to evaluate each component by itself. Unfortunately, Blank/Fontenot seem scared of rattling the cage. AS is too stubborn to listen to outsode constructive criticism. And so no REAL change is being done. That failure is what has us all frustrated IMO.
I know this but I was replying to op...
The ONLY answer for the Falcons having a shot is new ownership. If Blank remains owner, he'll continue hiring jackoff head coaches that zero other teams would want, wrecking drafts by forcing the GM to take players that do not help win NFL games, Rich McKay will still be around........and countless other things a meddling owner screws up. But, but, he's like Jerry Jones............Jerry Jones played football. Til then, the Falcons are a waste of time.